看美国网友对沈飞粽子机的评价，葡萄其实是酸的。。。

美专家：中国的新隐形机，并非是2010年11月的火星帖。

The US defense secretary is on his way to Beijing. Time to unveil a new stealth fighter...

美防长正在去北京的路上，适逢为新隐形机揭幕的时刻....

Short take-off and vertical landing has been one of the two driving requirements behind the Joint Strike Fighter design, the other being stealth.

追求短距及垂直起降能力（STOVL）是JSF的两个驱动因素之一，之二便是隐形能力。

STOVL dictated the single engine, and the STOVL solution chosen for the F-35 demands a big vertical bay behind the cockpit, and a main engine located unusually far forward, to keep the driveshaft length within reason and to put the
lift-cruise nozzle in the right longitudinal location for balance.

STOVL采用了单发方案，使得球电的座舱后面安置了一个巨大的垂直的升力风扇舱室，发动机也突破常规地安置在更靠前的位置，好将传动轴的长度限制在合理范围内并与垂直喷嘴保持平衡。

This constrains the weapon-bay volume and shape, and effectively subdivides the bays into four zones - two AAM bays and two heavy store sections. As Amy Butler reports in Aviation Week this week, too, the weapon bays, wrapped around the engine, get hot and noisy.

这些都制约了飞机的武器舱的外形和大小，事实上把武器舱割裂为四个部分，两个空空导弹弹仓，两个重载荷弹仓。就如Amy Butler本周在航空周刊上报道的一样，弹仓紧紧环绕于发动机周围，承受着高温和高震动的考验。

If you ever wondered what a JSF might look without those constraints, we now have a live, physical example.

如果你猜想，要是JSF甩开这些包袱会是个啥样，那我们现在正有一个活生生的例子摆在眼前。

Unfortunately.....it's Chinese.
倒霉的是。。。。。它是中国的

One of the photos of the new Shenyang stealth fighter, apparently designated J-31, that appeared on Chinese defense websites over the weekend is such a colossal gimme that it has to have been deliberate. Direct head-on shot? Check.
Commercially available aircraft tug? Check. Extreme telephoto, so that perspective effects are lost in the noise? Check.

这是一张新型的沈飞隐形战机的照片，似乎叫J-31，周末呈现在中国的防务论坛上，这一如此大方的赠礼，只能说是经过精心的谋划。正面免冠照？对了。商用的飞机牵引车？对了。超长焦镜头？以至于透视效果都淹没在图像噪点里？也对了。

Bill Sweetman ：China's New Stealth Fighter. Not a repeat from December 2010.

Sheesh, guys, can't you make it a challenge?

靠，伙计，你能不能别玩我？

The J-31's wingspan is an F-35-like 37.5 feet, unless my Soviet-watching skills have deserted me. This makes it smaller than the F-22 and considerably smaller than the Chengdu J-20. A good early guess is that the engines are Klimov RD-93s - imported in large numbers for the JF-17 - with a Chinese-built engine to follow.

J-31跟球电相仿的翼展约为37.5英尺，除非我警惕的无产阶级火眼金睛把我欺骗了。这使得该机小于F-22，更远小于成飞J-20，初步稳妥地猜测，发动机是克里莫夫RD93S，之前有为JF-17大量进口过，接下来会代之以中国国产发动机。

Turning to the side view of the jet, it looks as if the engines are installed to the rear of the bulkhead that carries the main landing gears. And with no lift fan bay to worry about, the designers have been able to install long weapon
bays on the centerline:  what will be interesting is how the inlet ducts are routed to optimize internal space.

转到侧面去看这架战机，发动机似乎是装置于起落架舱室的后部，而且没有令人头疼的升力风扇，设计者们便可在机体中央安置更长的武器弹仓:而进气道该选择何种路径以便优化内部空间，就会很有趣了。

Overall, the most important point is that the J-31 does not look like a competitor for the J-20 - but as a complement to it. Which, again, might point to the new fighter being a JSF to the J-20's F-22.

总而言之，最重要的一点是J-31看起来并非是J-20的挑战者，更像是一个它的后援。这一点更说明这个新机型之于J-20，正如JSF之于F-22一样。

And if you wonder about the detail similarities of the shape to the F-22 and F-35, remember this quote from 2010:

而如果你对它在细节上与F-22和F-35的相仿感到讶异时，别忘记引自2010年的这条消息：

In the past year (2009) alone, Lockheed Martin found “six to eight companies” among its subcontractors “had been totally compromised – emails, their networks, everything” according to Lockheed Martin chief information security
officer Anne Mullins.

“仅在去年（2009）一年，洛马就发现它的‘六到八个’分包商，‘已经完全失密了，从电邮往来、到网络链接乃至一切’”，洛马首席信息安全主管Anne Mullins如是说。


andrei_sh
4:16 PM on 9/16/2012
This new fighter looks definitely good, much better than the J-20. The less they invent and more copy, the better result they get, Anyawy, my congratulations go to our chinese comrades.

这新战机看起来相当不错，比J20还要好。他们少改点多抄点，效果就能再好点，总之，祝贺中国的同志们。

Eric Palmer
5:26 PM on 9/16/2012
My sources tell me that part of the data that was downloaded in various compromise ops by the Chinese was the video about "maneuverability is irrelevant." and DAS. Because the video was so stupid-funny, it took down PLAAF email servers
for a day or so because everyone was emailing it to their buddies. OK, I obviously made that up, but it is believable given the stupidity of some of our marketing pukes.

我的情报来源告诉我， 中国从那些泄密项目里下载的部分数据是关于“DAS（分布式孔径系统），已使得球电的机动性如何变得无关紧要”的视频。因为这玩意过于搞笑，它让 中国军方的邮件服务器瘫痪了差不多一整天——人们都互相转发这个段子。好吧，当然这都是我瞎掰的，但考虑到那些给球电促销的鬼话，说不定是真的呢。

Maersk
6:07 PM on 9/16/2012
Hi Eric, do you also have the video showing how the Chinese hacked into your azz and stealing your virginity? I am just curious.

喂，楼上的ERIC，只是好奇地问下，那个中国渗透到你后庭窃走你的童贞的视频你也有吗？

Eric Palmer
6:28 PM on 9/16/2012
The joys of nameless internet trolls.

网上喷子欢乐多。

Hardcore
6:54 PM on 9/16/2012
The Soviets where also accused of being copycats. I expect it be no more true the Chinese is.
The basic configuration is a copy of a proven type for sure, like most modern "X" proposal is (but they could have chosen a better role model; the PAK-FA is a more advanced design).
Apart from that I expect it to be Chinese under the skin.
It goes without saying it will be cheaper and fly better than the JSF. The only consolation is that the Chinese will probably not export it (at least not close US allies) repeating the US mistake with the raptor. Too paranoid.
Still, every new Chinese fighter emerging into the light make the JSF ever more embarrassing.

苏联同样是个山寨大国，中国充其量抄不到哪里去。
显然战机的基本设计抄袭了经过考验的构型，就像最先进的“X”布局（不过他们应该可以仿效一个更好的榜样，PAK-FA就是个更优秀的设计）不用说，这飞机会比球电更便宜，更灵活。唯一令人稍感安慰的就是，中国会犯美国在F22出口上一样的犯疑心病，八成不会把它当外贸产品（至少不会向美国的亲密盟友们兜售）。
但是，每一款浮出水面的中国新型战机，都会使得球电项目更加处境尴尬。

Sunho
8:24 PM on 9/16/2012
The Me-109 and Spitfire share the basic configuration - single low-wing monoplane with retractable landing gear - and may even look similar, but can we say one is the copy of the other?

ME-109和喷火有同样的基本构型，下单翼+可收放起落架，看起来模样更像，可我们能说它们是一个抄另一个的么？

marauder
8:48 PM on 9/16/2012
Bill, where does the Klimov RD-93 sit in terms of the GE 404 - GE-132 range?

专家，从F404到F110-GE-132，RD93能排到哪？


Score: 0 nico.in.AZ
9:44 PM on 9/16/2012
If you look closely at the top picture, you will notice a significant diameter difference between what look like Russian RD33s and the airframe. It could be simply for added cooling, IMO, I think that the Chinese are late on the more
powerful, bigger engines and decided to go forward testing with the RD33s. Lastly, the Chinese could be planning for TVC down the road. The Chinese seem to go more with the Russian spiral development way, look at how much they changed
the J10A to the J10B. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is what will we see with J20 and J21.
So far, I have seen people talking about maybe this been the Chinese version of the battle between YF22 vs YF23. I will go on a limb and say this is more the Chinese hi lo mix of the future. The Chinese seem to me to have gone for more
differentiation than the US, the high end J20 really looking like the long range interceptor/deep strike (kind of a F14/F111 combo) where the low mix J21 looks more toward WVR and CAS,etc....(kind of F15C/F35A combo).

你仔细看一下第一张图的话，你会发现发动机直径和机体之间的明显差异，要我看，是为了往上添加什么冷却装置。 中国在大推力发动机上步履蹒跚，只好决定先拿RD33【还打错了】试飞。最后， 中国应该已在筹划矢量发动机。看起来 中国是越来越像俄罗斯那样进行螺旋式研发过程了，瞧瞧J10A到J10B的过程。要是J20和J21也是这样演变，我不会很吃惊。

目前看来，我看到大家开始讨论这是不是 中国 版本的YF22与YF23之争。我要是说这更像是 中国 搞的高低搭配的话，估计没人赞同。依我看 中国 较之于美国似乎更着意不同定位，高端的J20更像是一款大航程截击机+纵深攻击机（类似于F14+F111），而同时低端的J21更倾向于视距内作战和近距支援（类似于F15C+F35A）


转自 龙腾网

美专家：中国的新隐形机，并非是2010年11月的火星帖。

The US defense secretary is on his way to Beijing. Time to unveil a new stealth fighter...

美防长正在去北京的路上，适逢为新隐形机揭幕的时刻....

Short take-off and vertical landing has been one of the two driving requirements behind the Joint Strike Fighter design, the other being stealth.

追求短距及垂直起降能力（STOVL）是JSF的两个驱动因素之一，之二便是隐形能力。

STOVL dictated the single engine, and the STOVL solution chosen for the F-35 demands a big vertical bay behind the cockpit, and a main engine located unusually far forward, to keep the driveshaft length within reason and to put the
lift-cruise nozzle in the right longitudinal location for balance.

STOVL采用了单发方案，使得球电的座舱后面安置了一个巨大的垂直的升力风扇舱室，发动机也突破常规地安置在更靠前的位置，好将传动轴的长度限制在合理范围内并与垂直喷嘴保持平衡。

This constrains the weapon-bay volume and shape, and effectively subdivides the bays into four zones - two AAM bays and two heavy store sections. As Amy Butler reports in Aviation Week this week, too, the weapon bays, wrapped around the engine, get hot and noisy.

这些都制约了飞机的武器舱的外形和大小，事实上把武器舱割裂为四个部分，两个空空导弹弹仓，两个重载荷弹仓。就如Amy Butler本周在航空周刊上报道的一样，弹仓紧紧环绕于发动机周围，承受着高温和高震动的考验。

If you ever wondered what a JSF might look without those constraints, we now have a live, physical example.

如果你猜想，要是JSF甩开这些包袱会是个啥样，那我们现在正有一个活生生的例子摆在眼前。

Unfortunately.....it's Chinese.
倒霉的是。。。。。它是中国的

One of the photos of the new Shenyang stealth fighter, apparently designated J-31, that appeared on Chinese defense websites over the weekend is such a colossal gimme that it has to have been deliberate. Direct head-on shot? Check.
Commercially available aircraft tug? Check. Extreme telephoto, so that perspective effects are lost in the noise? Check.

这是一张新型的沈飞隐形战机的照片，似乎叫J-31，周末呈现在中国的防务论坛上，这一如此大方的赠礼，只能说是经过精心的谋划。正面免冠照？对了。商用的飞机牵引车？对了。超长焦镜头？以至于透视效果都淹没在图像噪点里？也对了。

Bill Sweetman ：China's New Stealth Fighter. Not a repeat from December 2010.

Sheesh, guys, can't you make it a challenge?

靠，伙计，你能不能别玩我？

The J-31's wingspan is an F-35-like 37.5 feet, unless my Soviet-watching skills have deserted me. This makes it smaller than the F-22 and considerably smaller than the Chengdu J-20. A good early guess is that the engines are Klimov RD-93s - imported in large numbers for the JF-17 - with a Chinese-built engine to follow.

J-31跟球电相仿的翼展约为37.5英尺，除非我警惕的无产阶级火眼金睛把我欺骗了。这使得该机小于F-22，更远小于成飞J-20，初步稳妥地猜测，发动机是克里莫夫RD93S，之前有为JF-17大量进口过，接下来会代之以中国国产发动机。

Turning to the side view of the jet, it looks as if the engines are installed to the rear of the bulkhead that carries the main landing gears. And with no lift fan bay to worry about, the designers have been able to install long weapon
bays on the centerline:  what will be interesting is how the inlet ducts are routed to optimize internal space.

转到侧面去看这架战机，发动机似乎是装置于起落架舱室的后部，而且没有令人头疼的升力风扇，设计者们便可在机体中央安置更长的武器弹仓:而进气道该选择何种路径以便优化内部空间，就会很有趣了。

Overall, the most important point is that the J-31 does not look like a competitor for the J-20 - but as a complement to it. Which, again, might point to the new fighter being a JSF to the J-20's F-22.

总而言之，最重要的一点是J-31看起来并非是J-20的挑战者，更像是一个它的后援。这一点更说明这个新机型之于J-20，正如JSF之于F-22一样。

And if you wonder about the detail similarities of the shape to the F-22 and F-35, remember this quote from 2010:

而如果你对它在细节上与F-22和F-35的相仿感到讶异时，别忘记引自2010年的这条消息：

In the past year (2009) alone, Lockheed Martin found “six to eight companies” among its subcontractors “had been totally compromised – emails, their networks, everything” according to Lockheed Martin chief information security
officer Anne Mullins.

“仅在去年（2009）一年，洛马就发现它的‘六到八个’分包商，‘已经完全失密了，从电邮往来、到网络链接乃至一切’”，洛马首席信息安全主管Anne Mullins如是说。


andrei_sh
4:16 PM on 9/16/2012
This new fighter looks definitely good, much better than the J-20. The less they invent and more copy, the better result they get, Anyawy, my congratulations go to our chinese comrades.

这新战机看起来相当不错，比J20还要好。他们少改点多抄点，效果就能再好点，总之，祝贺中国的同志们。

Eric Palmer
5:26 PM on 9/16/2012
My sources tell me that part of the data that was downloaded in various compromise ops by the Chinese was the video about "maneuverability is irrelevant." and DAS. Because the video was so stupid-funny, it took down PLAAF email servers
for a day or so because everyone was emailing it to their buddies. OK, I obviously made that up, but it is believable given the stupidity of some of our marketing pukes.

我的情报来源告诉我， 中国从那些泄密项目里下载的部分数据是关于“DAS（分布式孔径系统），已使得球电的机动性如何变得无关紧要”的视频。因为这玩意过于搞笑，它让 中国军方的邮件服务器瘫痪了差不多一整天——人们都互相转发这个段子。好吧，当然这都是我瞎掰的，但考虑到那些给球电促销的鬼话，说不定是真的呢。

Maersk
6:07 PM on 9/16/2012
Hi Eric, do you also have the video showing how the Chinese hacked into your azz and stealing your virginity? I am just curious.

喂，楼上的ERIC，只是好奇地问下，那个中国渗透到你后庭窃走你的童贞的视频你也有吗？

Eric Palmer
6:28 PM on 9/16/2012
The joys of nameless internet trolls.

网上喷子欢乐多。

Hardcore
6:54 PM on 9/16/2012
The Soviets where also accused of being copycats. I expect it be no more true the Chinese is.
The basic configuration is a copy of a proven type for sure, like most modern "X" proposal is (but they could have chosen a better role model; the PAK-FA is a more advanced design).
Apart from that I expect it to be Chinese under the skin.
It goes without saying it will be cheaper and fly better than the JSF. The only consolation is that the Chinese will probably not export it (at least not close US allies) repeating the US mistake with the raptor. Too paranoid.
Still, every new Chinese fighter emerging into the light make the JSF ever more embarrassing.

苏联同样是个山寨大国，中国充其量抄不到哪里去。
显然战机的基本设计抄袭了经过考验的构型，就像最先进的“X”布局（不过他们应该可以仿效一个更好的榜样，PAK-FA就是个更优秀的设计）不用说，这飞机会比球电更便宜，更灵活。唯一令人稍感安慰的就是，中国会犯美国在F22出口上一样的犯疑心病，八成不会把它当外贸产品（至少不会向美国的亲密盟友们兜售）。
但是，每一款浮出水面的中国新型战机，都会使得球电项目更加处境尴尬。

Sunho
8:24 PM on 9/16/2012
The Me-109 and Spitfire share the basic configuration - single low-wing monoplane with retractable landing gear - and may even look similar, but can we say one is the copy of the other?

ME-109和喷火有同样的基本构型，下单翼+可收放起落架，看起来模样更像，可我们能说它们是一个抄另一个的么？

marauder
8:48 PM on 9/16/2012
Bill, where does the Klimov RD-93 sit in terms of the GE 404 - GE-132 range?

专家，从F404到F110-GE-132，RD93能排到哪？


Score: 0 nico.in.AZ
9:44 PM on 9/16/2012
If you look closely at the top picture, you will notice a significant diameter difference between what look like Russian RD33s and the airframe. It could be simply for added cooling, IMO, I think that the Chinese are late on the more
powerful, bigger engines and decided to go forward testing with the RD33s. Lastly, the Chinese could be planning for TVC down the road. The Chinese seem to go more with the Russian spiral development way, look at how much they changed
the J10A to the J10B. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is what will we see with J20 and J21.
So far, I have seen people talking about maybe this been the Chinese version of the battle between YF22 vs YF23. I will go on a limb and say this is more the Chinese hi lo mix of the future. The Chinese seem to me to have gone for more
differentiation than the US, the high end J20 really looking like the long range interceptor/deep strike (kind of a F14/F111 combo) where the low mix J21 looks more toward WVR and CAS,etc....(kind of F15C/F35A combo).

你仔细看一下第一张图的话，你会发现发动机直径和机体之间的明显差异，要我看，是为了往上添加什么冷却装置。 中国在大推力发动机上步履蹒跚，只好决定先拿RD33【还打错了】试飞。最后， 中国应该已在筹划矢量发动机。看起来 中国是越来越像俄罗斯那样进行螺旋式研发过程了，瞧瞧J10A到J10B的过程。要是J20和J21也是这样演变，我不会很吃惊。

目前看来，我看到大家开始讨论这是不是 中国 版本的YF22与YF23之争。我要是说这更像是 中国 搞的高低搭配的话，估计没人赞同。依我看 中国 较之于美国似乎更着意不同定位，高端的J20更像是一款大航程截击机+纵深攻击机（类似于F14+F111），而同时低端的J21更倾向于视距内作战和近距支援（类似于F15C+F35A）


转自 龙腾网