与转基因争论有关的一些文献

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/27 20:48:58
1)http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/v22/n1/full/cr2011158a.html

Exogenous plant MIR168a specifically targets mammalian LDLRAP1: evidence of cross-kingdom regulation by microRNA
Cell Research (2012) 22:107–126. doi:10.1038/cr.2011.158; published online 20 September 2011
作者是中国南京的。

摘要:Our previous studies have demonstrated that stable microRNAs (miRNAs) in mammalian serum and plasma are actively secreted from tissues and cells and can serve as a novel class of biomarkers for diseases, and act as signaling molecules in intercellular communication. Here, we report the surprising finding that exogenous plant miRNAs are present in the sera and tissues of various animals and that these exogenous plant miRNAs are primarily acquired orally, through food intake. MIR168a is abundant in rice and is one of the most highly enriched exogenous plant miRNAs in the sera of Chinese subjects. Functional studies in vitro and in vivo demonstrated that MIR168a could bind to the human/mouse low-density lipoprotein receptor adapter protein 1 (LDLRAP1) mRNA, inhibit LDLRAP1 expression in liver, and consequently decrease LDL removal from mouse plasma. These findings demonstrate that exogenous plant miRNAs in food can regulate the expression of target genes in mammals.

大米中的某种miRNA,可以在血清中检测出来,这种miRNA可以结合低密度脂蛋白受体1,影响其在肝中的表达,从而减少血低密度脂蛋白的清除。说明食物中的miRNAs可以影响哺乳动物的基因表达。

2)http://www.scientificamerican.co ... nerals-and-microrna
Food We Eat Might Control Our Genes
这个是科学美国人做的评论。

http://www.theatlantic.com/healt ... ified-foods/251051/
The Very Real Danger of Genetically Modified Foods
另一个评论。


4)WIKI百科上的关于转基因争论的介绍。比较全面。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen ... _food_controversies

5)1999年Nature上对实质等同原则的质疑。
Beyond 'substantial equivalence'.
http://www.nature.com/nature/jou ... /full/401525a0.html
全文
http://www.greenpeace.org.br/tra ... ial_equivalence.pdf
1)http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/v22/n1/full/cr2011158a.html

Exogenous plant MIR168a specifically targets mammalian LDLRAP1: evidence of cross-kingdom regulation by microRNA
Cell Research (2012) 22:107–126. doi:10.1038/cr.2011.158; published online 20 September 2011
作者是中国南京的。

摘要:Our previous studies have demonstrated that stable microRNAs (miRNAs) in mammalian serum and plasma are actively secreted from tissues and cells and can serve as a novel class of biomarkers for diseases, and act as signaling molecules in intercellular communication. Here, we report the surprising finding that exogenous plant miRNAs are present in the sera and tissues of various animals and that these exogenous plant miRNAs are primarily acquired orally, through food intake. MIR168a is abundant in rice and is one of the most highly enriched exogenous plant miRNAs in the sera of Chinese subjects. Functional studies in vitro and in vivo demonstrated that MIR168a could bind to the human/mouse low-density lipoprotein receptor adapter protein 1 (LDLRAP1) mRNA, inhibit LDLRAP1 expression in liver, and consequently decrease LDL removal from mouse plasma. These findings demonstrate that exogenous plant miRNAs in food can regulate the expression of target genes in mammals.

大米中的某种miRNA,可以在血清中检测出来,这种miRNA可以结合低密度脂蛋白受体1,影响其在肝中的表达,从而减少血低密度脂蛋白的清除。说明食物中的miRNAs可以影响哺乳动物的基因表达。

2)http://www.scientificamerican.co ... nerals-and-microrna
Food We Eat Might Control Our Genes
这个是科学美国人做的评论。

http://www.theatlantic.com/healt ... ified-foods/251051/
The Very Real Danger of Genetically Modified Foods
另一个评论。


4)WIKI百科上的关于转基因争论的介绍。比较全面。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen ... _food_controversies

5)1999年Nature上对实质等同原则的质疑。
Beyond 'substantial equivalence'.
http://www.nature.com/nature/jou ... /full/401525a0.html
全文
http://www.greenpeace.org.br/tra ... ial_equivalence.pdf
谢谢您提供的文献。
鉴于您提供的文献增长了我的知识,弥补了我的无知,我再次向您表示感谢,甘愿拜您为师。
谈谈我对该文章的看法:
1.作者的发现是颠覆性的,完全更新了我们关于核酸进入人体的途径的认识。因此我认为该文章发表在国内的杂志上有点儿明珠暗投了,完全可以发在国际知名的20分以上的SCI杂志上。
2.根据文章作者的观点,我们可以得出结论:不管是转基因的、杂交的还是传统育种方式的稻米,其miRNA都有可能进入人体并发挥调控作用。因此,如果转基因食品对人体存在潜在危害,基于同样的道理传统育种的稻米存在同样的可能性。既然您主张在转基因稻米能拿出证据证明自己安全之前不能推广,那么传统稻米也应该证明自己绝对安全才能进入人们的食谱。毕竟咱们不能拿中华民族的存亡来冒险,您说是不是?


兄弟敢说敢当,是条汉子。论坛里有的情绪化的斗嘴我们就忽略不计了。
这个文章是发在cell research 上.影响因子有10。已经很好了.
传统作物有几千年以上的历史.其安全性是经过了最完美的证明。也可以说人类已经适应了这些食物,也就是所谓一方水土养一方人。
转基因技术是非常强大的技术。从技术角度我非常支持发展之。这个技术可以用于制药.可以用生产特殊食品(比如专供某些代谢疾病)。甚至搞一些怪物用于观赏,劳作(类似于骡子)。这些都没什么。
但是用于我们日常吃的粮食。没必要。一方面是安全性没人知道。比如我们有大量儿童孕妇,大量肝肾功能不正常的病人.有免疫功能低下的病人,怎么保证安全性。我觉得连安全性研究都没法做。对了。有位儿科医生说他发现吃转基因豆油的孩子过敏疾病多。当然这只是个别医生的印象.不能做为证据。但我想你应该能理解这种担心。
另一方面.没有迫切性。化疗毒性那么大,为什么做化疗。因为可以救命。转基因能干嘛。转基因能带给我们什么利益。从论坛口水里也可以看到,也就是降低点成本,减少点农药,有可能增点产。

我们粮食短缺吗。实际上粮食不缺.只是穷人买不起。我们农药用的太多吗。能比得上工业污染吗。

为一件没有紧迫性的事.冒长期的,无法逆转的风险。我看不出有什么意义。



兄弟敢说敢当,是条汉子。论坛里有的情绪化的斗嘴我们就忽略不计了。
这个文章是发在cell research 上.影响因子有10。已经很好了.
传统作物有几千年以上的历史.其安全性是经过了最完美的证明。也可以说人类已经适应了这些食物,也就是所谓一方水土养一方人。
转基因技术是非常强大的技术。从技术角度我非常支持发展之。这个技术可以用于制药.可以用生产特殊食品(比如专供某些代谢疾病)。甚至搞一些怪物用于观赏,劳作(类似于骡子)。这些都没什么。
但是用于我们日常吃的粮食。没必要。一方面是安全性没人知道。比如我们有大量儿童孕妇,大量肝肾功能不正常的病人.有免疫功能低下的病人,怎么保证安全性。我觉得连安全性研究都没法做。对了。有位儿科医生说他发现吃转基因豆油的孩子过敏疾病多。当然这只是个别医生的印象.不能做为证据。但我想你应该能理解这种担心。
另一方面.没有迫切性。化疗毒性那么大,为什么做化疗。因为可以救命。转基因能干嘛。转基因能带给我们什么利益。从论坛口水里也可以看到,也就是降低点成本,减少点农药,有可能增点产。

我们粮食短缺吗。实际上粮食不缺.只是穷人买不起。我们农药用的太多吗。能比得上工业污染吗。

为一件没有紧迫性的事.冒长期的,无法逆转的风险。我看不出有什么意义。

转基因技术掌握在外国公司手里。这些货能有什么节操。
黄金大米非法儿童实验。国内搞转基因水稻的可以把实验中的品种泄露出去,这又是什么节操。
这说明这个行业整体极度自私,无视规则,不尊重生命。如果一个医生不尊重生命是什么后果。如果掌握了转基因技术的人不尊重生命是什么后果。
医学经历了百年千年的发展,形成了相应的职业道德职业规范。医生有父母之心.为患者利益服务。转基因这些混在实验室,没有人文传统,他们没有能力超越利益。(医生都被怀疑没有医德.被砍死。搞转基因的是什么德。)
所以我的观点是,转基因技术好的很,除了公众食品,随便他们搞。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 16:26
兄弟敢说敢当,是条汉子。论坛里有的情绪化的斗嘴我们就忽略不计了。
这个文章是发在cell research 上.影 ...
该文章已经证实,来自稻米的miRNA能够进入人体,低密度脂蛋白受体1,影响其在肝中的表达,从而减少血低密度脂蛋白的清除。说明食物中的miRNAs可以影响哺乳动物的基因表达。
所以这是个后果非常严重的问题!对于高胆固醇患者尤其是LDL升高的患者,大米是很危险的食物,能够进一步降低LDL的清除。以前没有做过研究不知道,现在有了初步的研究结果就应该立即行动起来,至少应该建议高胆固醇患者禁食大米知道有研究表明传统大米对其绝对安全为止,这一过程恐怕得持续相当长的时间。
由此推而广之,miRNA现在已知的大概4000多个,所有含有miRNA的食物包括但不限于大米都应该立即停止食用,知道有确切的证据表明其对人体绝对安全为止。这才是对人类负责的慎重的态度,您说对吗?
这里是不是在偷换概念?

食物中的miRNAs可以影响哺乳动物的基因表达。

只是说明这种传播途径存在,这不能论证稻米的安全性,稻米的安全性是由长时间大样本的验证提供的。

这种传播途径的存在,对基因的人为风险打开了大门,无论是有意的还是无意的。


该文章已经证实,来自稻米的miRNA能够进入人体,低密度脂蛋白受体1,影响其在肝中的表达,从而减少血低密 ...
循证医学的概念你应该知道。

屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 18:58
循证医学的概念你应该知道。
这不就是大米miRNA影响人体的证据吗?10分的影响因子可不小啦!
nmd 发表于 2013-11-3 19:15
这不就是大米miRNA影响人体的证据吗?10分的影响因子可不小啦!
一个不懂循证医学滴人,无语。搞这个鸟毛转基因我也累了。循证医学的事比较复杂,我暂时就不说了。你自己加强学习吧。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 20:10
一个不懂循证医学滴人,无语。搞这个鸟毛转基因我也累了。循证医学的事比较复杂,我暂时就不说了。你自己 ...
证据摆在那里你视而不见,还说别人不懂循证医学?!
nmd 发表于 2013-11-3 20:23
证据摆在那里你视而不见,还说别人不懂循证医学?!
你太菜了。回家读书去吧。

你看其它挺转的,人家不懂归不懂,辩论技巧比你强多了,这叫一巧遮百拙。你专找自己不懂的事情辩,不是自讨苦吃吗。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 20:31
你太菜了。回家读书去吧。

你看其它挺转的,人家不懂归不懂,辩论技巧比你强多了,这叫一巧遮百拙。你 ...
如果想以这篇文献证明转基因食品有潜在风险,那么传统大米也存在同样的问题。
如果这篇文献不能说明传统大米对人体有潜在危害,那也不能说转基因大米会通过这种方式影响人体。
这个逻辑有问题吗?
我插句话。传统大米先不说了,就说杂交稻吧,作为一种全新的作物,杂交稻大面积推广的历史不超过30年,如果只反转不反杂,请自问逻辑能否自洽。
友情提示,袁隆平院士主持的杂交稻工程,父本母本相距上千公里不说,更关键的是,有一个雄性不育株是在海南发现的野生稻,先不说不育株的特殊性,只考虑水稻的花粉活性和琼州海峡宽度,可以认为在自然状态下这雄性不育株不可能和大陆的野生稻发生基因水平转移。
其实反转的同志们应该把番茄、洋芋、红薯、玉米这些都赶出去
这些东西肯定不是我们中华的物种,绝对是外来的物种,难道你们不担心这些物种的基因会平移么?
哦,还有辣椒,差点忘记了

屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 03:26
兄弟敢说敢当,是条汉子。论坛里有的情绪化的斗嘴我们就忽略不计了。
这个文章是发在cell research 上.影 ...


这个问题其实更影响杂交作物,原因是杂交作物将一些原本人们不食用的植株(比如雄性不育株)引入了食物,但是这些未知的东西都通过杂交堂而皇之的进入了食物,甚至没有任何检测。。。

相反,转基因作物转入的啥完全清楚,这位大师完全可以去扫描整个转入的基因序列来确定是否有miRNA表达的可能。理论上说这种可能性极低,原因是miRNA多数位于基因间序列,这东西转入基因是没有的,剩下的小部分转录自内含子,而这东西多数情况下转入基因也没有。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 03:26
兄弟敢说敢当,是条汉子。论坛里有的情绪化的斗嘴我们就忽略不计了。
这个文章是发在cell research 上.影 ...


这个问题其实更影响杂交作物,原因是杂交作物将一些原本人们不食用的植株(比如雄性不育株)引入了食物,但是这些未知的东西都通过杂交堂而皇之的进入了食物,甚至没有任何检测。。。

相反,转基因作物转入的啥完全清楚,这位大师完全可以去扫描整个转入的基因序列来确定是否有miRNA表达的可能。理论上说这种可能性极低,原因是miRNA多数位于基因间序列,这东西转入基因是没有的,剩下的小部分转录自内含子,而这东西多数情况下转入基因也没有。

屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 03:43
转基因技术掌握在外国公司手里。这些货能有什么节操。
黄金大米非法儿童实验。国内搞转基因水稻的可以把实 ...


请先反杂交:1)2010年先玉335一个品种就占吉林玉米种植的40%,2)已有研究显示长期食用杂交大米人体很多系统带来不良影响。

http://www.cqvip.com/QK/95840X/201211/43857108.html
杂交大米食用功效及安全性的评价研究
《食品科技》2012年 第11期 | 王晓光 王德芝 周则卫 沈秀 李济洋 龙伟   中国医学科学院北京协和医学院放射医学研究所 天津300192

摘 要:通过小鼠实验研究杂交大米功效及安全,建立一种综合评价人工修饰食物营养、健康效应及安全性的评价新方法。实验用生长期健康雄性ICR小鼠,通过低营养玉米空白饲料、“两优363”杂交大米及普通大米与玉米掺和饲料喂养,统计考察小鼠体重、脏器质量、系数及其效应的损益指数(BDI)等指标,综合评价杂交大米食用功效及安全性差异。研究表明“两优363”杂交大米的营养功效较全面,但总体效价较低,对胸腺、脾、性腺的营养、健康效应均不如普通大米。与普通大米相比,长期食用该杂交大米对机体免疫、脾胃及生育功能存在一定不利影响,但可望降低患Ⅱ型糖尿病风险。评价方法具有直观、具体、综合的特点,可用于各类人工修饰食品功效及安全的评价。

屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 03:43
转基因技术掌握在外国公司手里。这些货能有什么节操。
黄金大米非法儿童实验。国内搞转基因水稻的可以把实 ...


请先反杂交:1)2010年先玉335一个品种就占吉林玉米种植的40%,2)已有研究显示长期食用杂交大米人体很多系统带来不良影响。

http://www.cqvip.com/QK/95840X/201211/43857108.html
杂交大米食用功效及安全性的评价研究
《食品科技》2012年 第11期 | 王晓光 王德芝 周则卫 沈秀 李济洋 龙伟   中国医学科学院北京协和医学院放射医学研究所 天津300192

摘 要:通过小鼠实验研究杂交大米功效及安全,建立一种综合评价人工修饰食物营养、健康效应及安全性的评价新方法。实验用生长期健康雄性ICR小鼠,通过低营养玉米空白饲料、“两优363”杂交大米及普通大米与玉米掺和饲料喂养,统计考察小鼠体重、脏器质量、系数及其效应的损益指数(BDI)等指标,综合评价杂交大米食用功效及安全性差异。研究表明“两优363”杂交大米的营养功效较全面,但总体效价较低,对胸腺、脾、性腺的营养、健康效应均不如普通大米。与普通大米相比,长期食用该杂交大米对机体免疫、脾胃及生育功能存在一定不利影响,但可望降低患Ⅱ型糖尿病风险。评价方法具有直观、具体、综合的特点,可用于各类人工修饰食品功效及安全的评价。
炎运宏开世界同 发表于 2013-11-3 05:09
这里是不是在偷换概念?

食物中的miRNAs可以影响哺乳动物的基因表达。
请问你长时间食用水稻的“雄性不育株”么?
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 07:10
一个不懂循证医学滴人,无语。搞这个鸟毛转基因我也累了。循证医学的事比较复杂,我暂时就不说了。你自己 ...
你总是抛出一个名词,然后故作高深的说无比复杂,然后不说了。偶尔找到一两篇文献,就迫不及待的开主题(比如这个,还有http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1736919-1-1.html),甚至叫嚣要加精。。。你就是一个语言高手,但知识贫乏。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 07:31
你太菜了。回家读书去吧。

你看其它挺转的,人家不懂归不懂,辩论技巧比你强多了,这叫一巧遮百拙。你 ...
http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mo ... &fromuid=374360

这个帖子里你不是要谈概率吗,行,俺和你谈。先来一个最简单的,假设一个作物的基因组有80%的基因间区域,有N(比如10000)个基因(长度相等),然后某个目标性状由单个基因决定,然后比较转基因育种和辐射育种发生其他基因突变的概率。先进一步假设辐射育种中这个基因的任何一个变异都可以带来这个目标性状,并且你可以在得到这个目标性状后立即中止辐射。而转基因育种通过直接转入引起该性状的基因,目前技术可以控制或者在实验室阶段选择插入的基因拷贝数。请计算辐射育种得到带来这个性状的突变时平均有多少个其他基因发生突变?而不带有任何一个其他基因突变的可能性是多少。转基因育种的相应可能性呢?

预祝你能说会练巧把式,而不是光吹不练假把式。
其实反转的同志们应该把番茄、洋芋、红薯、玉米这些都赶出去
这些东西肯定不是我们中华的物种,绝对是外来 ...
其实是转基因有武器属性,可以做手脚伤害人。二是转基因作物种子由外国控制,每年需要从洋人那里购买,中国买办从中再得利。三是转基因食品有害无害一时半会儿是无法论证的,推广的目的,是为了钱,而把整个民族推上危险境地。
yyw888 发表于 2013-11-3 16:39
其实是转基因有武器属性,可以做手脚伤害人。二是转基因作物种子由外国控制,每年需要从洋人那里购买,中 ...
1。如果要制作伪装策划成生化武器的种子,有必要加上一个“转基因”的名号么,随便说一个普通杂交种不行么,难道其安全性评估比转基因作物更严格么?

2。种子被控制。。。呵呵,请先从玉米的杂交种子入手,与其反对一个中国大学自己研制的种子,不如反对现实存在的威胁,对不?

3。蘑菇有毒没有?有些蘑菇有毒不需要论证吧。。。转基因作物是个例进行安全性认证的,推广有安全证书的转基因作物有啥不可?
In effect, the authors have set up a target which they have then elaborately tried to knock down.

简单点说,实质等价是起点,不是终点,实质等同原则是用来找出到底哪些变化需要进行下一步安全性评估,因为没有明确目的,泛泛的全面评估除了浪费钱,浪费实验动物外没有任何价值。

Nature反驳文章全文
Nature 401, 640-641 (14 October 1999) | doi:10.1038/44262

No GM conspiracy
Editor -- Nature

Sir

Last week's Commentary by Millstone et al.1 is misleading and inaccurate. The authors do not seem to be aware of a meeting organized by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, held in Aussois, France, in March 1997, which is about to be published. Hence they present an outdated view of the use of substantial equivalence, while their characterization of this tool as the outcome of an international conspiracy to foist genetically modified (GM) foods on a gullible public is beyond belief. Do Millstone et al. really believe in a worldwide conspiracy? They have no evidence for this assertion.

Second, by such accusations, Millstone et al. denigrate the whole regulatory process and all the hard-working academics who make up the British regulatory committees. Throughout their article, they reveal their ignorance of the way the regulatory process works. Substantial equivalence is a tool only: the 'first cut' at the decision-making rather than a quick solution, as the authors infer. I was chairman of the Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes (ACNFP) from 1989 to 1997, and we never received any political or commercial pressure when making decisions. I totally reject the slur on our integrity.

Finally, Millstone et al. are wrong in what they say about GM soya. They imply that a herbicide that has no effect on the target enzyme, and that does not persist in the plant, has far-reaching effects on intermediary metabolism. If the herbicide does not affect its target, how can it affect the plant? Not only is this idea bizarre, it is wrong: GM beans have been analysed after treatment with herbicide and their composition is unaffected2, 3, 4. Millstone et al. are also wrong to say that treatment with herbicide alters the isoflavone content; they do quote one paper reporting some variation but ignore others showing that this difference is well within the normal range of isoflavone content4. More than 1,400 compositional analyses of Roundup Ready soya beans have been conducted, showing that there are no significant differences in the key soya bean nutrients and anti-nutrients; these data have been reviewed by the ACNFP. The authors use the literature selectively to make their point, which is not good enough for any scientific journal.

I contend that these data establish that GM soya beans are as safe as conventional soya beans. This conclusion was reached by the ACNFP after a thorough safety assessment, using substantial equivalence as a key safety assessment approach. This conclusion has been confirmed by regulatory agencies in the 13 countries that have approved these GM soya beans. This food has been used commercially for four years, and 300 million Americans are currently eating it with no sign of a problem.

How did such a mish-mash of old hat sociology and poor science get published? I would like an assurance from the editor that all such contributions — especially from activists — are rigorously refereed. Nature, in my view, damages its reputation by publishing such propaganda.

Derek Burke1

    13 Pretoria Road, Cambridge CB4 1HD, UK

The publication policy of Commentaries is long established. The Commentary section, like the Book Reviews and Correspondence sections, is intended to convey original and stimulating opinions, both solicited and unsolicited, from outside contributors. Publication does not imply endorsement by Nature of the authors' views. In contrast to Articles, Letters and Brief Communications, not all Commentaries are refereed, but it is Nature's policy to seek advice especially where we believe there is a risk of readers being misled. On the few occasions when, despite that policy, falsehoods or significant misrepresentations have been published, rebuttals or corrections have been published as soon as possible.

Top of page
References

    Millstone, E. , Brunner, E. & Mayer, S. Nature 401, 525–526 (1999). | Article | PubMed | ISI | ChemPort |
    ACNFP Annual Report Appendix XII, par. 8 (1998).
    Padgette et al. J. Nutr. 126, 702–716 (1996). | PubMed | ISI | ChemPort |
    Taylor et al. J. Agric. Food Chem. (in the press).

Nature 401, 640 (14 October 1999) | doi:10.1038/44258

Conventional crops are the test of GM prejudice

Anthony Trewavas1 & C. J. Leaver2

    Institute of Cell and Molecular Biology, University of Edinburgh, Edinburgh EH9 3JH, UK
    Department of Plant Sciences, University of Oxford, South Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3RB, UK

Sir

Millstone et al., in their Commentary in last week's issue1, claim that 'substantial equivalence', a rule governing toxicity testing of genetically modified (GM) crops, is a pseudo-scientific concept.

One of their arguments is that it is insufficient to test glyphosate-tolerant soybeans (GTSBs) for toxicity and health problems; beans must be tested specifically after glyphosate treatment when isoflavone levels are modified. Millstone et al. suppose that toxicity could result from unspecified interactions with the single gene incorporated in the GTSB. The GTSB (Roundup) technology actually requires glyphosate spraying only early in the season when soybean plants are small and weeds a strong competitor for soil and light resources. The beans themselves form months later when the effects of the biodegradable glyphosate sprays have disappeared.

As in all discussion about GM plants, it is important to ascertain the applicability of these arguments to conventionally bred crops, either to avoid, or to expose, simple prejudice against the technology itself. We are unable to think of any environmental stress condition in the quality or supply of light, in the supply of water, minerals or a host of pests and diseases which does not modify isoflavone levels and indeed the content of a host of potential carcinogens that are found in most plants2.

Using the logic of Millstone et al., every new crop seed variety would have to be separately tested for toxicity when it has been treated with every herbicide, every pesticide, fertilizer variations, attack by every individual predator, infection with every individual disease and grown in an astronomically large number of different environmental combinations. We would be drowning in toxicity tests. And all these tests would be simply to eliminate the remote possibility that a particular balance of carcinogenic chemicals inside the plant induced by a unique set of conditions might interact in some unexpected way with the many new genes that are combined by conventional plant breeding in the new seed variety.

If this phenomenon ever happens it is more likely to occur in conventional new-variety crops, because many new genes are present rather than the single well characterized trans gene and its protein product in a GM plant. Only two examples, to our knowledge, of the environmental induction of a toxic compound that was not detected during routine testing have ever emerged out of the many millions of conventional crop lines produced. Psoralen was found to accumulate in one line of insect-resistant non-GM celery in response to light, and to cause skin burns3. Cool weather-induced toxic accumulations of solanine caused the withdrawal of the non-GM Magnum Bonum potato line in Sweden4.

The UK Health and Safety Executive concluded, after 25 years of intensive scrutiny, that GM food technology is one of the safest yet developed5. GM soya has been eaten for 3–4 years by hundreds of millions of people in the United States and Europe with no untoward effects. The type of ill-informed logic expressed by Millstone et al. obstructs the acceptance of a new and far safer technology, simply because the authors don't like it. Their arguments are a distraction from the task of developing a sustainable and environmentally friendly agriculture, which combines the best of conventional plant breeding approaches with the new technologies.

Top of page
References

    Millstone, E. , Brunner, E. & Mayer, S. Nature 401, 525–526 (1999). | Article | PubMed | ISI | ChemPort |
    Ames, B. N. , Profet, M. & Gold, L. S. Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 87, 7772–7776 (1990). | PubMed | ChemPort |
    Ames, B. N. & Gold, L. S. in Fearing Food (eds Morris, J. & Bate, R.) 18–38 (Butterworth Heinemann, Oxford, 1999).
    Van Gelder, W. M. J. , Vinke, J, H. & Scheffer, J. J. C. Euphytica 88, 147–158 (1988).
    Wilson, M. A. , Hillman, J. R. & Robinson, D. J. in Fearing Food (eds Morris, J. & Bate, R.) 58–78 (Butterworth Heinemann, Oxford, 1999).

Nature 402, 229 (18 November 1999) | doi:10.1038/46147

Genetically modified foods face rigorous safety evaluation

M. J. Gasson1

    Institute of Food Research, Norwich Research Park, Colney, Norwich NR4 7UA, UK

Sir

The Commentary by Erik Millstone et al.1 on the role of substantial equivalence in the safety evaluation of genetically modified (GM) food draws attention to important issues, but it gives an inaccurate and misleading account of the work of regulatory committees and the current role of substantial equivalence in safety evaluation.

The authors imply that regulatory committees depend on substantial equivalence as the sole basis for the safety evaluation of GM foods. They suggest that only chemical tests are used, and that biological, toxicological and immunological methods are ignored. This seriously misrepresents the work of independent expert committees that give careful and wide-ranging consideration to the safety of GM foods on a case-by-case basis, and do not rely solely on substantial equivalence.

From the standpoint of safety evaluation, substantial equivalence is a useful tool to address a major limitation in traditional toxicology approaches to whole GM foods. The feeding of excess quantities of individual chemical components to experimental animals can easily be distinguished from overall nutrition. This approach can be used to set acceptable daily intakes for non-nutrient chemical components of the diet. In contrast, whole GM foods are complex, contribute to nutrition and are limited in the quantity that can be consumed. So the interpretation of data from animal feeding experiments is far from simple.

The safety evaluation of GM food is far more rigorous than is applied to its conventional counterpart, and aims to establish that the accepted safety of the conventional counterpart has not been compromised. In Europe, the safety evaluation of GM foods is covered by European Commission (EC) regulation 258/97. The work of the UK Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes (ACNFP) now falls within its framework2. According to the EC, "substantial equivalence is not a safety or nutritional assessment in itself, but an approach to compare a potential new food with its conventional counterpart"3.

In most instances GM technology is applied to a crop plant to introduce a new trait, so the GM plant cannot be substantially equivalent to its conventional parent. An example that illustrates the fact that much more than substantial equivalence is involved is the safety evaluation of GM soya4. Safety evaluation focused on four issues: intentional changes; unintentional changes; stability; and gene transfer. GM soya contains a single introduced bacterial gene that confers tolerance to the herbicide glyphosate. This gene produces a glyphosate-insensitive homologue of the natural plant enzyme, 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS), that is involved in aromatic amino-acid biosynthesis. Detailed molecular analysis authenticated the genetic modification and demonstrated that it was stable through several generations of conventional plant breeding. An acute toxicity study in mice showed that the introduced EPSPS protein was non-toxic, and it was demonstrated that this protein is rapidly degraded under conditions encountered following consumption. Furthermore, the conventional processing of soya was shown to destroy the protein. So EPSPS, which in any event is inactivated in marketed GM food, is safe.

The possibility that unintended changes had taken place was evaluated by comparing compositional data and nutritional studies for GM and conventional soya. It is known that unprocessed soya beans can cause food allergy, and the levels of known allergenic proteins were unchanged in GM soya. The possibility of gene transfer from GM soya was eliminated by DNA degradation during processing. On the basis of this evaluation, ACNFP concluded that GM soya was as safe as its conventional counterpart.

Substantial equivalence has recently been re-evaluated by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development5. A useful aspect of this evaluation is the recommendation of a consensus on appropriate components for compositional analysis so as to standardize safety evaluation. Key nutrients and known toxins, antinutrients and allergens would be included in this consensus.

The expression of previously unknown toxins, antinutrients or allergens in GM foods so as to cause previously unrecognized harm is unlikely, given that conventional foods have been subject to massive changes in genetic make-up by established plant-breeding methods. The use of chemical fingerprinting, messenger RNA analysis, DNA arrays and proteomics to investigate unintended effects are recognized possibilities for the future, but the practical value of these techniques has not been established. Changes to gene expression and to the levels of individual proteins and metabolites are a normal feature of plant development and response to environmental change. Any such detailed holistic analysis needs to be considered in the context of a dynamic situation in which flux in gene expression is the norm.

Top of page
References

    Millstone, E., Brunner, E., & Mayer, S. Nature 401, 525–526 (1999). | Article | PubMed | ISI | ChemPort |
    ACNFP Annual Report 1997 3–6 (1997).
    Official Journal of the European Communities L253, 16/09/1997, 1–36 (1997). (http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1997/en_397X0618)
    ACNFP Annual Report 1994 59–65 (1994).
    http://www.oecd.org/ehs/food
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 17:41
已经有人叫我老师了。你也想拜师吗。可惜你天资愚钝,我不感性趣。
切,您这么好为人师么,口舌之争有意义么?您的人身攻击已举报。
明镜亦无台 发表于 2013-11-4 03:18
http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=1736561&pid=46829408&fromuid=374360
...
挺转人士真可爱,一边骂人,一边请教问题。别人回答你,你偷师学艺,不回答你,就就骂骂咧咧。

做事先做人,不懂礼貌,知识越多越反动。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 17:51
挺转人士真可爱,一边骂人,一边请教问题。别人回答你,你偷师学艺,不回答你,就就骂骂咧咧。

做事先 ...
答不出来就别往自己脸上贴金,自己先主动说概率的,怎么不算了?您是不会呢,还是不敢呢?通过计算知道哪个更安全不是很好的科普么?
明镜亦无台 发表于 2013-11-4 03:18
http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=1736561&pid=46829408&fromuid=374360
...
你如果真的对概率问题很熟悉,那你这么设定前提隐藏了一个模糊的误导性认识,也许你自己确实没意识到。

为了通俗易懂,就按引用贴里里英雄对随机概率的比喻:猴子打字。你设定的“得到某个性状”就等同于“得到具体指定的诗句”。

你设定这个模型来比较,本意是想证明为了“得到具体指定的诗句”。让人来打字比猴子打字出现各种稀奇古怪的意外少得多。从而说明转基因技术的可靠性。


问题是,现在您能看清楚模糊掉的事实是什么了吗?

大自然发生变异的概率是客观存在的,不是人为设定在一个短时间段里急遽爆发的。按进化论,如果变异超过了生物系统自身能容纳的程度,它就自我毁灭了。

所以,你这个数学模型要在事实的基础上修正:猴子的打字速度是有限的,您不否认这一点吧。

这样,你只能得出:猴子在有限的时间段内打出具体指定的诗句概率极小,而不是反过来的得到无数的意外。

到这里,您是不是可以承认自然变异的安全性不会超过生物进化自然进程本底风险。
我想有这个解释你不会再问我对:长时间食用水稻的“雄性不育株”的担忧了。


下面,就要说转基因的风险了。人的工作进度是可以计划的,你这个模型不就是想说转基因技术得到具体性状的概率极大吗,不然我们发展转基因技术干什么。

就象这个模型里的打字,人主观上可以打出优美的诗句,也不排除他在诗句里暗藏辛辣的嘲讽,这一点谁能否认?

除了主观的恶意,诗人也是有拙劣的,意外写出稀奇古怪的诗句也不是闻所未闻的事。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-3 17:51
挺转人士真可爱,一边骂人,一边请教问题。别人回答你,你偷师学艺,不回答你,就就骂骂咧咧。

做事先 ...
这位很好为人师的同志,既然您不会/不能/不屑计算您自己提出的概率问题,俺就勉为其难的在您面前班门弄斧一回,请斧正(当然您想偷师俺不介意)。

简单而言,对辐射育种而言,我们忽略所有发生在基因间区域的变异,而所有在基因区域的突变中发生在目标基因的概率是1/N=0.0001,因此这个问题可以转化为发生第一个在目标基因上的突变前,有多少个非目标基因被突变。在发生第一个目标基因突变前发生的基因突变数符合geometric distribution分布(Pr(Y=k)=(1-p)^k*p,p=0.0001, k=0,1,2...)。这个分布的中位数是[-1/log2(1-p)]-1~=6930。当然因为一个基因可以发生多个突变,不能直接说有这么多个非目标基因突变了。计算多少非目标基因发生突变的构成相当于sampling with replacement,当前设定下在N-1个非目标基因中总共发生y次突变,而没有发生突变的基因数是(N-1)*(1-1/(N-1))^y,将中位数y=6930和N=10000代入,计算结果是5000个,也就是说预计有半数(4999)的非目标基因会早于目标基因发生突变。第二个问题,无非目标基因突变,即第一个基因突变就发生在目标基因的可能性是1/N=0.0001。

而对于转基因而言,插入位点在基因中的概率是20%,也就是说有20%的可能有一个基因会被插入。假设转入的DNA片断被分成了5份(转基因木瓜的全基因组测序显示3个片断,http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v26/n6/full/nbt0608-653.html),发生突变的非目标基因(即插入位点位于该基因中)中位数是5*0.2=1,无非目标基因突变的可能性是0.8^5=0.33。

大师,请评价一下这个计算结果。

炎运宏开世界同 发表于 2013-11-3 22:12
你如果真的对概率问题很熟悉,那你这么设定前提隐藏了一个模糊的误导性认识,也许你自己确实没意识到。
...


你考虑过辐射突变么?

另外,如果大自然发生的都是安全的话,请问还有毒蘑菇么?

至于主观恶意,呵呵,都恶意了还标注转基因干吗?你对杂交种子的安全检测咋样?
炎运宏开世界同 发表于 2013-11-3 22:12
你如果真的对概率问题很熟悉,那你这么设定前提隐藏了一个模糊的误导性认识,也许你自己确实没意识到。
...


你考虑过辐射突变么?

另外,如果大自然发生的都是安全的话,请问还有毒蘑菇么?

至于主观恶意,呵呵,都恶意了还标注转基因干吗?你对杂交种子的安全检测咋样?
明镜亦无台 发表于 2013-11-4 11:37
你考虑过辐射突变么?

另外,如果大自然发生的都是安全的话,请问还有毒蘑菇么?
这里只是分辨清楚把转基因的人为概率水平和自然变异混为一谈的模糊认识。你是不是可以承认这一点了呢?

其他问题就不混在一起谈吧,话题转换太快,取得的共识过会又模糊了。
炎运宏开世界同 发表于 2013-11-3 22:51
这里只是分辨清楚把转基因的人为概率水平和自然变异混为一谈的模糊认识。你是不是可以承认这一点了呢?
...
好吧,一条一条来,第一点,辐射育种中是自然变异还是人为变异?
明镜亦无台 发表于 2013-11-4 11:54
好吧,一条一条来,第一点,辐射育种中是自然变异还是人为变异?
我怎么觉得这么提问带有诱导性呢?你要说在自然界的原来的环境条件下,大家很容易确认。

要是人为制造高辐射环境,就看你怎么定义了,你不是想玩脑筋急转弯游戏吧。
想当初也是争论转基因。我拿出蛋白质口服吸收的文献。一位兄弟说,这是改变他世界观的资料。(不过很遗憾,过去太久了,我没找到当时的帖子。)

由此可见,胃肠道消化所有蛋白质核酸的高中生物反而导致大范围的无知和误会。

生命是极其复杂的。生物与环境的相互作用也是极其复杂的。人类仍然很无知。要尊重生命,尊重自己。

类似于转基因技术,核技术也是非常危险的。相关争论也很激烈。

技术服务于人。而不是人服务技术。有这个技术就一定要用?有这个产品就一定要推广?

当年有人说全世界石油只够三十年。当年有人说中国解决不了吃饭问题。当年有人说没有美孚中国就一片黑暗。种种叫嚣早已是笑柄,而后人尚不自知,以待后人复笑之。
屠狗英雄 发表于 2013-11-4 12:02
想当初也是争论转基因。我拿出蛋白质口服吸收的文献。一位兄弟说,这是改变他世界观的资料。(不过很遗憾, ...

下棋至少要和同等水平的下。
当年文革文献中看到有种批判语言是形左实右,那时候我还比较幼稚。形左实右是什么,我理解不了。

现在挺转派就在这集体表演形左实右。

真是一堂生动活泼的政治课。
炎运宏开世界同 发表于 2013-11-3 23:00
我怎么觉得这么提问带有诱导性呢?你要说在自然界的原来的环境条件下,大家很容易确认。

要是人为制造 ...
事实性的问题怎么算诱导?辐射育种是啥意思你可以自己去查。。。如果事实性的问题你都认为是脑筋急转弯,只能说你得神经绷太紧。

另外,育种本身就不在自然界原有的环境下。。。
nevermore123 发表于 2013-11-3 23:04
下棋至少要和同等水平的下。
那是,俺怎么敢和嘴一张就把中心法则推翻的ID下棋呢。。。当然,这类ID反转中您也不是第一位。
明镜亦无台 发表于 2013-11-4 12:11
事实性的问题怎么算诱导?辐射育种是啥意思你可以自己去查。。。如果事实性的问题你都认为是脑筋急转弯, ...
我有点明白你的论证思路了,可以预先告诉你,通过控告别人有罪并不能替自己做无罪辩护。

还是回到概率的问题上吧,你先确认,对前面得出的结论是不是还有异议:

转基因的人为概率水平和自然变异的概率水平是不一样的。
炎运宏开世界同 发表于 2013-11-3 23:18
我有点明白你的论证思路了,可以预先告诉你,通过控告别人有罪并不能替自己做无罪辩护。

还是回到概率 ...

你不是要先讨论共识问题么,怎么就回到概率问题了呢?

辐射育种的变异概率水平和你所谓的“自然变异的概率水平”一样么?