超级军网英国网友讨论中国运输机的研制 （还算理性）
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/27 20:36:27
Ah yes, I wonder how ex-Boeing Long Beach engineer Dongfan Chung is doing these days.
There's some speculation around the internet on this Avic Defence transport (AVIC-I and AVIC-II have now merged). Some are just calling it 'Y-XX', other go out on a limb with 'Y-13'.
A wind tunnel model and cockpit section have been built. The consensus seems to be that the Avic design is slightly smaller than the C-17, perhaps with an IL-76 influence. Prototype powerplant is to the the WS-18 (D-30KP-2). production aircraft would be powered by a HBR turbofan derived from the FWS-10 by 603 Institute. Take-off weight is said to be in the range of 60t.
If produced, it will be interesting to see if the Y-XX wing resembled the Comac C919 LCA.
BTW, this design was begun by AVIC-I to rival the AVIC-II/Antonov ASTC proposal for a 4-turbofan derivative of the An-70. At one point, there was also mention of a 4-turbofan amphibian transport by AVIC-II.
是啊，我也想知道波音长滩的工程师张东帆在干什么？
在互联网上有些对中国航空工业集团公司（AVIC-I和AVIC-II现在已经合并）的猜测。有些人叫它运-13，有些人干脆叫它运-XX
风洞模型和座舱部分已建成。中航工业的设计是略小于C-17，可能受到了伊尔-76的影响。原型发动机是WS-18（D-30KP-2）。生产出的飞机将装载来自603研究所的FWS-10 涡扇发动机。起飞重量据说是在60吨范围内。
如果生产出来，看到跟C1919打飞机类似的机翼会很有意思。
顺便说一句，这个设计由航空工业第一集团着手设计，用来对抗第二集团与乌克兰安东诺夫航空科学技术联合体投标的安-70衍生版，一种4-涡扇发动机运输机。还有网上也提到了第二集团装载4-涡扇发动机的两栖运输机.
（译者注：张东帆的资料：http://hi.baidu.com/cccjnh/item/08a981b8340ba2f163388e70，有关于飞机研制的资料：http://bbs.feeyo.com/posts/287/topic-0011-2871253.html）
the first two pics are shameless copycat's of the C-17! the last picture is in my opinion a original design.
Illadvise the Chinese to continue with the last design! I know they can do the job,and let the world know that they can also developing original own designs!
前两张照片是无耻的抄袭了C-17。最后一张照片在我看来是原始的设计。
我建议中国人继续之前的设计！我知道他们能完成这个工作，他们会让全世界知道他们能够发展自己独创的设计。
（译注：之前的帖子没有找到图，可能是挂了）
No, this last picture is also just a "what-if" or fan art published some months ago, but it may be a hint of how it could look like, if the rumours about a An-70-based design are true.
Anyway, at the moment, it looks more as if it is a "development" (??) of the Il-76 design
不，最后一张照片也是个“假设”，或者根据几个月前公布的资料创造的同人作品。
但如果它是以安-70为基础设计的传闻属实的话，也可能是其造型的一个暗示。
总之，现在它更像伊尔-76设计的“发展”
（译注：2010年的帖子，有一位网友发了一张图）
his aircraft will be independently developed and manufactured by XAC (Xi’an Aircraft Industry Group) and is based on the Ilyushin IL-76.
Specifications (provisional)
Crew: 3
Payload Capacity: 60,000-65000 kg
Length: 49 m
Wingspan: 50 m
Height: 15 m
Wing area: 310 m2
Empty weight: 100,000 kg
Max takeoff weight: 220,000 kg
Power: 4×turbofans
Maximum speed: 750-800 km/h
Range: (with max payload) 4,400 km
Service ceiling: 13,000 m
这架飞机由西安飞机工业集团独立设计与发展，它是以伊尔-76为基础的。
技术规格（暂定）
乘员：3
有效负载能力：60,000-65000公斤
长度：49米
翼展：50米
高度：15米
翼面积：310 平方米
空机重量：100000公斤
最大起飞重量：220,000公斤
功率：4×涡扇发动机
最大速度：750～800公里/小时
范围：（最大有效载荷）4,400公里
实用升限：13000米
原帖地址：http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/6987.html
Ah yes, I wonder how ex-Boeing Long Beach engineer Dongfan Chung is doing these days.
There's some speculation around the internet on this Avic Defence transport (AVIC-I and AVIC-II have now merged). Some are just calling it 'Y-XX', other go out on a limb with 'Y-13'.
A wind tunnel model and cockpit section have been built. The consensus seems to be that the Avic design is slightly smaller than the C-17, perhaps with an IL-76 influence. Prototype powerplant is to the the WS-18 (D-30KP-2). production aircraft would be powered by a HBR turbofan derived from the FWS-10 by 603 Institute. Take-off weight is said to be in the range of 60t.
If produced, it will be interesting to see if the Y-XX wing resembled the Comac C919 LCA.
BTW, this design was begun by AVIC-I to rival the AVIC-II/Antonov ASTC proposal for a 4-turbofan derivative of the An-70. At one point, there was also mention of a 4-turbofan amphibian transport by AVIC-II.
是啊，我也想知道波音长滩的工程师张东帆在干什么？
在互联网上有些对中国航空工业集团公司（AVIC-I和AVIC-II现在已经合并）的猜测。有些人叫它运-13，有些人干脆叫它运-XX
风洞模型和座舱部分已建成。中航工业的设计是略小于C-17，可能受到了伊尔-76的影响。原型发动机是WS-18（D-30KP-2）。生产出的飞机将装载来自603研究所的FWS-10 涡扇发动机。起飞重量据说是在60吨范围内。
如果生产出来，看到跟C1919打飞机类似的机翼会很有意思。
顺便说一句，这个设计由航空工业第一集团着手设计，用来对抗第二集团与乌克兰安东诺夫航空科学技术联合体投标的安-70衍生版，一种4-涡扇发动机运输机。还有网上也提到了第二集团装载4-涡扇发动机的两栖运输机.
（译者注：张东帆的资料：http://hi.baidu.com/cccjnh/item/08a981b8340ba2f163388e70，有关于飞机研制的资料：http://bbs.feeyo.com/posts/287/topic-0011-2871253.html）
the first two pics are shameless copycat's of the C-17! the last picture is in my opinion a original design.
Illadvise the Chinese to continue with the last design! I know they can do the job,and let the world know that they can also developing original own designs!
前两张照片是无耻的抄袭了C-17。最后一张照片在我看来是原始的设计。
我建议中国人继续之前的设计！我知道他们能完成这个工作，他们会让全世界知道他们能够发展自己独创的设计。
（译注：之前的帖子没有找到图，可能是挂了）
No, this last picture is also just a "what-if" or fan art published some months ago, but it may be a hint of how it could look like, if the rumours about a An-70-based design are true.
Anyway, at the moment, it looks more as if it is a "development" (??) of the Il-76 design
不，最后一张照片也是个“假设”，或者根据几个月前公布的资料创造的同人作品。
但如果它是以安-70为基础设计的传闻属实的话，也可能是其造型的一个暗示。
总之，现在它更像伊尔-76设计的“发展”
（译注：2010年的帖子，有一位网友发了一张图）
his aircraft will be independently developed and manufactured by XAC (Xi’an Aircraft Industry Group) and is based on the Ilyushin IL-76.
Specifications (provisional)
Crew: 3
Payload Capacity: 60,000-65000 kg
Length: 49 m
Wingspan: 50 m
Height: 15 m
Wing area: 310 m2
Empty weight: 100,000 kg
Max takeoff weight: 220,000 kg
Power: 4×turbofans
Maximum speed: 750-800 km/h
Range: (with max payload) 4,400 km
Service ceiling: 13,000 m
这架飞机由西安飞机工业集团独立设计与发展，它是以伊尔-76为基础的。
技术规格（暂定）
乘员：3
有效负载能力：60,000-65000公斤
长度：49米
翼展：50米
高度：15米
翼面积：310 平方米
空机重量：100000公斤
最大起飞重量：220,000公斤
功率：4×涡扇发动机
最大速度：750～800公里/小时
范围：（最大有效载荷）4,400公里
实用升限：13000米
原帖地址：http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/6987.html
Model of XAC (Xi’an Aircraft Industry Group) military airlifter. It has been speculated that this aircraft may be designated the Y-20.
这是西飞（西安飞机工业集团）的军用运输机的型号。据推测，这架飞机可能被指定为运-20
s very interesting transport aircraft
this new chinese transport aircraft, I agree with Deino , really is very similar to the AN-70 a little scale-up and with turbofans, that is in the way of the new chinese philosophy , coming from a previous existing projet ,gain fast experience and knowledge , for example, like the J-10 and the IAI-Lavi
The Avic Y-XX (Y-20) is bigger and wider of the IL-96 MD; If you think that generally this type of aircraft is designed to transport specific cargo, both heavy and sensitive, we should ask ourselves what kind of "special" weapons are considering transporting the Chinese? Shure, something bigger than a MBT!
很有意思的运输机,
中国新的运输机确实与安-70类似，只是按比例扩大了一些，装有涡扇发动机。这是中国新的哲学，从先前的设计中获得经验和知识，比如，J-10和幼狮。
中航工业的Y-XX（Y—20）比伊尔-96模型更大更宽。如果你认为一般这种类型的飞机被设计成运输特定货物----既沉重又易损坏，我们应该问自己中国正考虑运输什么样的“特殊”武器？对，大于主战坦克的东西。
There are significant differences, however. Note that the tail is entirely different.
这里有着显著的差异，注意尾巴完全是不同的
I don't know... the four engine, high wing layout is hardly patented or are you basing this on the T-tail with an inverse-taper fin? That makes probably 70% of the world's current airlifter projects C-17 copies . I can see at least as much Antonov and Ilyushin heritage in that image, quite apart from the very open question of how reliable it is in the first place.
我不知道...四缸发动机，高翼布局是很难获得专利的，或者你依据的是反锥形翅片的T型尾翼吗？这与世界上现有的C-17飞机项目约有70%的相似。很有争议的是它的可靠性如何，除此之外，我至少在这张图里还看到了安东诺夫和伊留申设计局飞机的影子。
Looks like a C-17 crossed with an Il-76
看起来像一个C-17与IL-76的综合体
（译注：下面是2012的帖子）
one follows the latest reports, then the Y-20 began with its first taxi-tests on Friday 21.12.12 .... and since the CFTE at Xi'an is known for its tight security, images won't appear soon. Anyway this is reportedly from one who saw these tests ....
最新报告，在2012.12.21运-20进行了第一次滑行试验…..因为西安中航工业飞行试验研究院的保安十分严密，图片不会很快出现。但已经有看到测试的人报道这件事了
Interesting if the first flights of a mere transport were kept under wraps, while first flights of j-20 and j-31 were done so as to give maximum unofficial visibility.
有意思，这个飞机首次测试进行了严格保密，然而J-20和J-31的首飞不是这样，从而让他们有了非官方的最大知名度
The Dragon seems unstoppable.
龙似乎是不可阻挡的
Nice Christmas present! Apart from the T-tail that does look a lot like the An-70 though - barring unforeseen issues that will prevent it from wiping the floor the warmed-over Il-476 is the engines and that may well be a temporary issue.
Is this the largest aircraft built in China so far?
不错的圣诞礼物！除了T型尾翼，它尽管和An-70看起来很像-在不可预见的问题之外，将防止它因为伊尔-476过热的发动机而崩溃，这也是个暂时的问题。
这是中国目前制造的最大飞机吗？
It looks more like the C-17 than the An-70. The configuration of the nose, the fuselage hump for the wings and the tail are all far more similar to C-17 than the An-70.
相比安-70，它更像C-17。机头的配置，机身的隆起、机尾都更像C—17.
This reminds me of the C-15 and C-17 powering. Looks to me this thing is underpowered. Unless the chinese have a very high T/W ratio or a very long runway.
这让我想起了C-15 和C-17 的动力估计，在我看来这飞机动力不足，除非中国人有很高的推力/重力 比率，或者很长的跑道。
It might not need too long a runway; I imagine it'd still require less than a 3km runway for take off. And as for purpose, I imagine that China could utilise this aircraft (in the interim of further engine development) like Australia uses the C-17.
Obviously China is a far larger nation with a larger demand for transport
他可能不需要太长的跑道；我想它仍会需要不到3公里的跑道起飞。我认为中国会采购这种飞机（在发动机发展的过渡期间）就像澳大利亚采购C-17一样。
显然，中国是需要大运输机的大国。
The small intake means low massflow. More likely they are using an engine of adequate power but low bypass ratio. So the plane would be similar to 1960s era transports in having adequate flight performance but high fuel consumption and low range.
Lately Chinese products , like JF-17 or type 053C DDG, look nothing like Russian products. The chinese seem now interested more in specific Russian solutions to detailed engineering problems than the overall Russian designs. They either copy outright, or try to go indigenous as much as possible and only adopt specific Russian solutions to specific problems they can't overcome. They copy to learn, and are not constitutional copycats.
小进气装置意味着低质量流量。更有可能的是他们使用提供总够动力但涵道比低的发动机，因此这种飞机跟20世纪60年代的飞机类似，有足够的飞行性能，但是高油耗、范围小。
最近的中国产品，如JF-17和053C驱逐舰，不再像俄罗斯的产品了。现在中国人更感兴趣的好像是对于详细工程问题的特定解决方案，而不是俄罗斯的整体设计。
他们也完全的抄袭，或者尽可能国产，或者只是从俄罗斯获得他们不能克服问题的解决方案。
他们模仿来学习，但他们不是宪法的盲目模仿者。
If the rumor of this plane being in the 200 ton max TOW class is true, then it would be the heaviest domestically built aircraft in China. The previous record holder was probably the obscure Y-10 passenger jet prototype manufactured in the late 1970s, which would have been in the 100 tons .
The Chinese have announced that a high bypass turbofan based on the core of WS-10 has been developed for use in future transports. That probably means Y-20.
如果这种飞机起飞重量最大为200吨属实的话，这将是中国制造的飞机最重的。前记录保持者很可能是70年代的运-10喷气式客机的原型机，已经达到了100吨
中国已经宣布以高涵道涡扇发动机WS-10作为核心基础来发展未来的运输机。这里很可能指的是运-20
核心还是发动机啊
核心还是发动机啊
www.secretprojects.co.uk里面有许多好东西，那里的人对各种古怪离奇的武器项目都有研究，讨论非常理性，可惜现在很冷清。
心脏病啊心脏病
这东西急不得，千万别象强5歼6大返工啊。
这从哪摘来的啊
不像常规英国网友评论
不像常规英国网友评论
何年何月，得偿所望！我的小心脏！
英国还是把TSR.2整利索了再来点评他国的航空工业，除了罗罗，牛牛在航空上还有底裤吗？
核心还是发动机
评论的都好专业的样子
发动机一解决，我免就有资格在地球村争老大了。
英国上一次造大飞机是猎迷巡逻机吧。协和算不算？
牛牛什么时候卖掉罗罗啊,我兔多少钱都要.
R&R是英国航空工业的底线，不会出卖的。。。
还算理性
MAZ543M 发表于 2012-12-28 20:59 
英国还是把TSR.2整利索了再来点评他国的航空工业，除了罗罗，牛牛在航空上还有底裤吗？
你敢小看我大BAE？
英国还是把TSR.2整利索了再来点评他国的航空工业，除了罗罗，牛牛在航空上还有底裤吗？
你敢小看我大BAE？
不错的圣诞礼物XD
四缸发动机.....................这谁翻译的
R&R是英国航空工业的底线，不会出卖的。。。
我猜牛牛在卖其他产业之前也这么说过
我猜牛牛在卖其他产业之前也这么说过
为什么保密是因为某方面不可靠曾出 过事，一旦满意了消息立马会铺天盖地
"小进气装置意味着低质量流量。更有可能的是他们使用提供总够动力但涵道比低的发动机，因此这种飞机跟20世纪60年代的飞机类似，有足够的飞行性能，但是高油耗、范围小。"
发动机的确没C-17的粗
发动机的确没C-17的粗