超级军网（转）英国网友讨论“马航空难中国保持冷淡安静的姿态” ...
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/29 12:56:20
China stays quiet on MH17 disaster
Closer Sino-Russian relations mean Chinese leaders are loth to apportion blame for downing of Malaysia Airlines plane
中国不曾对MH17空难作出表态。
愈加紧密的中俄关系使得中国领导人对追究马航空难责任不感兴趣。
While western countries are pressing Russia over the MH17 disaster, China has so far steered clear of stating even that a missile downed the plane, let alone tying the event to rebels in Ukraine.
在西方国家就马航空难紧逼俄罗斯的时候，中国到目前为止甚至不肯对飞机遭受导弹攻击做出清晰描述，更别说把矛头指向乌克兰叛军了。
That has been little surprise to observers of warming Sino-Russian relations. The signing of a 30-year gas deal in May – worth about $400bn (￡235bn), analysts believe – is indicative of the growing ties between the two countries, which are making them more inclined to support each other.
中俄关系持续升温已经显示出了一些成果。5月份双方签订了一份有效期长达30年的天然气供应协议——有分析家相信合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑——越来越多的合作关系意味着双方更倾向于作出互相支持的决定。
"China and Russia have gone out of their way to help each other in difficult geopolitical situations a number of times this year," said Rory Medcalf of the Lowy Institute for International Policy.
国际政策研究中心的洛里.梅德卡夫指出，在复杂困难的地缘政治局面下，中国和俄罗斯今年已经竭力做出数次相互支持的行动。
"There's a real effort to deepen strategic closeness between these two countries … We saw that with the summit in April, the joint naval exercises, the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building in Asia, and of course the announcement of the gas pipeline.
两国之间有切实深化关系的举措……我们看到的有4月份举行的峰会，联合军事演习，亚洲互信合作会议，当然了，还有天然气管道项目。
"That only counts if they support each other when they're in strife."
But he added: "The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
“这表明他们在（与西方国家）对抗活动中相互扶持。”但他又强调说：“他们越是互相支持，就越加被孤立，因而又使得他们越加依赖彼此之间的互相支持。”
As permanent members of the UN security council, the two countries will be focused on shaping Monday's resolution on MH17 into one they can sign up to: resisting it would be damaging and embarrassing, said Medcalf. But if Russia decides it must veto this or a later resolution on the crisis, China is unlikely to vote against it. When Moscow vetoed the resolution declaring the Crimea secession referendum illegal, China abstained.
梅德卡夫还说，作为联合国常任理事成员国，这两个国家在周一就马航17空难事件决议中面临困境：阻止决议生成将有损形象并带来尴尬局面。但如果俄罗斯在周一或之后就此事的决议中行使否决权，中国则不大可能投反对票。莫斯科在联合国就宣布克里米亚独立公投为非法的决议中投反对票的时候，中国投了弃权票。
Russia has denied any involvement in the disaster.
Beijing's UN envoy, Liu Jieyi, stressed on Friday that "it is not advisable to jump to any conclusion, make any assumptions or trade accusations" about MH17. State media have reinforced that stance: "The western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic … Russia has been back-footed, forced into a passive stance by western reaction. It is yet another example of the power of western opinion as a political tool," an editorial in the populist Global Times said on Monday.
俄罗斯已经否认了自己和此次事件的任何牵连。
中国驻联合国代表刘结一周五就马航空难事件强调说：“妄下定论，主观假设以及指责行为都是不合适的。”持民族主义的官方媒体环球时报也在周一说：“西方媒体对俄罗斯的责难没有实质证据或逻辑基础……西方媒体的压力已经迫使俄罗斯做出消极姿态。这是西方把舆论作为政治手段的又一例证。”
"Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine."
“从动机上来说，击落客机的行为是十分荒谬的。克兰目前的混乱局面是个错误的前提条件。”
State news agency Xinhua has already criticised the US and Australia as "rash" for blaming Russia, though it added: "If the plane turned out to have been shot down by a missile, the perpetrators should be brought to justice despite their motives and excuses, as it was an intolerable terrorist attack."
国家通讯机构新华社指责了美国和澳大利亚“草率”地将责任归咎于俄罗斯的行为，新华社还补充说：“如果飞机是被导弹击落，凶手就应该被绳之以法，不管他有什么理由和目的，这都是无法接受的恐怖主义行为。”
China has little direct interest in the crash: it took place far from its territory and none of its citizens were on board. There is little doubt Beijing would be in a far more awkward position otherwise.
中国对空难事故兴趣缺缺：事故地点远离其国土，飞机上也没有中国公民。否则中国面临的局面毫无疑问将更加尴尬。Medcalf questioned how far China would be willing to
damage other relationships for Russia's sake, pointing to Australia's substantial contribution to the hunt for MH370, the Malaysia Airlines plane that went missing in March with more than 150 Chinese nationals on board. Now Australia has lost 27 of its citizens and will be looking closely at China's response.
梅德卡夫怀疑，因为俄罗斯的缘故，中国愿意承受和其他国家的双边关系带来多大的伤害，他指出3月份澳大利亚为搜救马航370客机的巨大贡献，而当时该机中最少有150名中国乘客。此次事件澳大利亚27名公民丧生，他会密切关注中国的举动。
But Medcalf added: "Even if China chooses to prioritise the relationship with Russia over its international reputation, I would still think abstention was more likely than a veto."
不过梅德卡夫还说：“即便中国把与俄罗斯的双边关系看的比国际声誉还重，我依然认为他弃权的可能性比投反对票大。”
Dai Guiju, director of the Russian Centre at Beijing Foreign Studies University, noted that China's statements on the MH17 event had so far mirrored Vladimir Putin's and said it would be likely to veto or abstain in voting on a resolution opposed by Russia, unless there was evidence of Russia's direct involvement in the incident.
北京外国语学院俄语中心主任戴桂菊指出，中国就马航17事件的声明中到目前为止还没有提及普京，她说很可能北京会在俄罗斯投反对票的情况下弃权或否决，除非有清晰的证据证明俄罗斯与空难事故有牵连。
But she added that Beijing's relations with Kiev were also a factor: it has been a keen purchaser of Ukraine's attractively priced arms.
不过她还补充说，北京和基辅的关系也是因素之一，中国一直对低价采购乌克兰武器装备感兴趣。
Dai suggested Sino-Russian relations had warmed as Beijing needed Moscow to counterbalance pressure from the US and the EU, and described them as "hot politics and cold economics": "The natural gas deal signed by the two countries, to a certain degree, is driven by political needs rather than economic incentive," she said.
戴桂菊认为北京需要和俄罗斯保持密切关系以应付来自美国和欧洲的压力，她用“经冷政热”来形容两者关系：“两国签署天然气协议，在某种程度上是政治需求而非刺激经济。”
Shi Yinhong, an international relations expert at Renmin University, Beijing, added: "China has a strategic relationship with Russia, the Chinese public is pro-Russia, and Xi himself has a good relationship with Putin.
北京人民大学国际关系专家时殷红补充说：“中国和俄罗斯已经建立战略伙伴关系，中国人民倾向于俄罗斯，习jinping自身也与普京关系良好。”
"The only good relations with the west on China's part is with the EU. If the EU wants China [to be supportive] why not send a high official to talk to Xi Jinping?"
中国唯一和西方保持良好关系的是欧盟。如果欧盟希望中国（的支持）为什么不委派一名高级官员来个习jinping当面沟通？
Even that would not change Beijing's fundamental position, he added, drawing a parallel with the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel the Cheonan by a torpedo in 2010. Beijing never accepted the conclusion of international investigators that North Korea, which denied involvement, was responsible.
他还说即便如此也很难改变中国的立场，2010年韩国海军天安舰被鱼雷击沉。中国一直否认国际组织对朝鲜（朝鲜否认自己参与此事）的调查是负责任的行为。
下为评论：
BizMIS
22 Jul 2014 05:24
Guardian Pick
Don't like this strategic alliance... Tough Tits.
You're well-over a barrel cos your heavy and light manufacturing sector's have gone, as is your apparel sector, your electronics sector et al.
You rely on Russian gas and as for leisure don't even think about going to Blackpool, Yarmouth etc spend yer hard-earned overseas... possibly Asia.
Oh dear what a connundrum you've got yerself in.
As is said in Australia... Suck it up
不喜欢这样的战略联盟……激烈对抗。
因为轻重机械制造业已经尾随服装电子等等产业一样离你远去，你已完全是身不由己。
你们依赖俄罗斯的天然气，休闲时间宁愿去亚洲花辛辛苦苦挣来的外汇也不考虑布莱克浦或雅茅斯。大哥，这就是自作自受。
正如澳大利亚俗话说的：面对那啥的时候，既然无法反抗就好好享受吧。
Report
Dunscore
22 Jul 2014 05:12
Guardian Pick
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
这里面的东西大概可以推测为什么马来西亚航班会遭受不幸。
Report
Victor Lee
22 Jul 2014 05:01
Guardian Pick
A great tragedy and crime has occurred and the perpetrators whomever they may be should be brought to justice. Extensive investigations into the downing of the jet should be done as soon and as objective as possible (free from political bias if possible) before we apportion blame and guilt. Attempts to politicize these tragedy should be avoided as these are not constructive to bring about the investigations. That what's we do in our justice courts.
To hear China's official view (not Global times which is a right leaning tabloid): These are the most recent statements by FM Wang Yi on this issue (on XInhua News):
"
Wang, who is accompanying Chinese President Xi Jinping in an ongoing Latin America tour, made the comments shortly after the UN Security Council adopted a resolution demanding safe and unrestricted access of international experts to the crash site. The resolution is in line with China's consistent position that an independent, fair and objective international probe be carried out to find out the truth, said the minister, noting that China played a constructive role in the deliberations and unanimous passage of the resolution.
Stressing that the tragedy, which claimed 298 lives, should not be repeated, Wand said the current priority is to implement the resolution, especially to give international investigators full access to the crash site. The International Civil Aviation Organization should be allowed to play a key role in the investigation and its professional expertise be brought into full play, he said.
Before the result is produced, he stressed, all parties concerned should refrain from making conjectures and prejudgment and, more importantly, avoid politicizing the issue. The crash further suggests that an early settlement of the Ukraine crisis is the fundamental way to maintain regional peace and stability, Wang said. "We urged all Ukrainian parties concerned to cease fire as soon as possible and conduct dialogue and consultation so as to seek a comprehensive, lasting and balanced political solution," Wang said.
Aren't these declarations by China fair, non hysterical and rational comments?
无与伦比的悲剧，罪恶已经降临，无论肇事者是谁都应该被绳之以法。在对击落客机事件做出全面客观的调查之前（尽量不带政治偏见）我们共同承担悲伤与责任。努力为避免类似悲剧做些建设性的研究，这才是我们司法机构要做的。
听听中国的官方声音，不是来自右倾小报环球时报，而是外交部长王毅在新华社上面说的：
王先生陪同习先生走访拉美，在联合国就马航空难事件做出要确保国际调查人员的安全，在调查现场不受限制的决议后不久表态。他说该决议体现了中国政府的一贯立场，调查要独立客观公正地找出事情真相。他还指出中国在审议决议一致通过过程中发挥了建设性作用。
他强调这个夺去298条生命的事故是个惨剧，毋庸置疑，他还说当前的首要任务是执行联合国决议，特别是要让调查人员毫无阻碍地进入坠机地点。要允许国际民航组织运用其专业知识在调查中发挥关键作用。
他还强调，在调查结果出来之前，有关各方应避免妄自揣测推断，特别是不应政治化。他还认为该事件表明，维护地区的和平与稳定是解决乌克兰危机的根本途径。他说：“我们督促乌克兰各方停止交火并尽快进行对话协商，以寻求一个全面持久平衡的政治局面。”
中国的这些声明不公平吗？不冷静理智吗?
Report
HauptmannGurski
22 Jul 2014 04:25
Guardian Pick
Very wise. The investigation is not complete, so why trumpet conclusions when all is still assumptions? There is still a possibility that it blew up from a bomb within the plane, although it is not likely. The missiles could have been captured from Ukrainian soldiers, sold by the mafia from Moldova, captured from Russia across the border. The investigation is not complete and even when it is, we need to look at everything very closely to ensure that data have not been falsified.
One thing is for sure, Eastern Ukrainians cannot be in the Ukrainian military and NATO bases in Eastern Ukraine would be unwise.
The Chinese would be well aware that the campaign against Russia and President Putin started when Khodorkovsky was disallowed from selling Yukos to outside interests. They don't fall for campaigns so easily it seems. Deceived once too often?
很聪明。调查不完整，为什么有些人用假设来得出结论？说不定飞机上被安装了炸弹，尽管这不大可能。导弹有可能来自被俘的乌克兰军人，或者摩尔多瓦黑手党，甚至从俄罗斯边境偷运过来。调查是不完整的，即便调查完成了，我们也需要看到一切因素是否紧密关键，调查数据真实可靠。
显而易见的是，乌克兰东部不在乌克兰政府军控制范围之内，北约在乌克兰东部建立军事基地也不明智。
Report
Hong Lee
22 Jul 2014 03:22
Guardian Pick
The Guardian is behaving exactly as a shill for the neocons who are acting like hyenas after Russian blood. So this colonial paper is trying to accuse China of not towing the colonial line when China is being rational in a time of hysterical accusations. We don't even know if it was a missile that shot it down. Until pieces of the plane can be tested in the lab to show what type of explosive sticks to the surface, rational persons and jounalists should shut up. There are various analysts who show fact that are germaine to Kyiv being behind this rather than the militants. Following the money I don't think Putin is stupid as to shoot down a civilian plane for he has all the cards already. It is the Kyiv group who are desperately trying to draw in the colonial powers to their side with more aid and weapons. So I would suspect someone from Kyiv side to have done this. The analysts, e.g. the Saker, sound very reasonable.
卫报的新保守主义使得他们看到俄罗斯身上流血的时候有如鬣狗。因此这份充满殖民主义思想的报纸对并非其属国的中国大加批评，因为别人都在歇斯底里地指责（俄罗斯）的时候中国却保持理智。我们现在甚至不清楚到底飞机是不是被导弹击落的。在实验室检测出飞机残骸表面炸药类型之前，聪明人和记者都应该闭上嘴巴。
很多分析家认为这件事由基辅的同党策划的可能性比反对派更大。从金钱角度来说我不觉得普京会蠢到做这种攻击客机的事情，他已经全权在手。反倒是那些希望从列强手里得到更多援助和武器的乌克兰人更有可能。所以我倾向于认为凶手是亲基辅派别的。这样分析看起来很合理。
Report
Mohammed Karim
22 Jul 2014 03:05
Guardian Pick
Sir, China has a strategic and geopolitical relationship to serve their national interest in Central Asia & Europe with her $400bilion gas deals.As regards MH17 crash she is riding on tight rope not to antagonize the Super Powers.Her role in the Security Council will be quite interesting.Missile attack on a civilian plane could open up old wounds of cold war.This could be quite damaging to emerging Nations who are just wriggling out of their century old poverty and deprivation,i am afraid.M.Karim.
先生，中国刚刚签了价值4000亿美元的天然气合同，她在中亚和欧洲的战略以及地缘政治关系是以国家利益为中心的。至于像马航17空难这种事故，她的原则是不和强国搞对抗。她在联合国安理会的作用会很有意思。用导弹攻击客机会揭开冷战时留下的伤疤。我担心很可能对刚刚摆脱贫穷和旧世纪的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
Report
raysimlee
22 Jul 2014 02:32
Guardian Pick
World press including the guardian was very calm when an US carrier shoot down a civilian airliner that belong to Iran. That was use military, US war ship using US missile no less. Western media is far to quick this time to lay blame on Russia. There are of cause other possibilities. However western media ignore alternate possibility. The evident is not in yet.
This Ukrainian war is looking too much a racial war where western leaning Ukrainian with western support is killing ethnic Russian. A race war.
As to possible causes of downing a civilian aircraft. Ukraine could have shoot down a civilian plane knowing that it will cause western uproar. A Ukraine ware plane could have done it by 'mistake'. A Ukraine owned missile could have done it. Ukraine could have under the supervision of CIA or MI6 trick the 'rebel' to open fire. CIA is far too quick to point fingers without proof. No one in the west actually ask these questions. The west practically blame Russia ordered downing the plane. Guilty without proof. Knowing western media they could ever invent evidence that the Chinese or the Arab Muslim(or anybody they hate) did it.
美国击落伊朗客机的时候全世界包括卫报在内的媒体十分冷静。说到使用武力，美军射起导弹来毫无顾虑。这次西方媒体指责起俄罗斯来倒是反应迅速。西方媒体考虑过其他的可能吗，明显没有。
这场发生在乌克兰的战争更像是种族冲突，一边是亲西方的乌克兰人，一边是西方国家欲杀之而后快的俄罗斯人。种族战争。
击落客机的动机，乌克兰可能知道这种事情会让西方沸腾起来。也许是乌克兰军机“误击”的，或者是乌克兰自己用了导弹，或者是以联邦调查局或军情六局为靠山的“反对派”开火了。联邦调查局还没有任何证据就急匆匆地指定对象。西方国家居然没人就此提出质疑。西方媒体毫无根据就指责俄罗斯人击落了客机。了解西方媒体的人都会知道，他们也会创造一些有关中国或阿拉伯穆斯林人或任何他们讨厌的人的证据。
Report
Guardian Pick
Dunscore raysimlee
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
Report
LearningTruth
22 Jul 2014 01:01
Guardian Pick
What's new?
China is waiting for the result of investigation as it always does.
Did China offically claim and blame whatever country on MH370?
这算什么新闻？
中国一如既往的等待调查结果。
马航370事件中国政府指责谁了没有？
Report
HoolyK
22 Jul 2014 00:56
Guardian Pick
What's wrong with countries looking after their own interests? and minding their own business ??
I mean, if I were a leader of China, this is what I would be thinking: was this a Chinese airliner?, were there Chinese nationals among the victims?, was this tragedy committed on Chinese soil?, were Chinese weapons involved?, are there Chinese investigators on the scene to make a determination? ... the answer is No to every questions. Then why in the world would China involve itself in this matter?
Hence I find the tone of this article to be perplexing frankly.
一个国家关心自己的利益，管好自己的事情有错？
我是说，假如我是中国领导人，我会想：飞机是中国的？机上有中国乘客？这个悲剧发生在中国吗？中国的武器？现场有中国调查人员？……没有没有没有没有。那中国干嘛要让自己卷进这件事里？
因此坦白说我觉得这篇文章的措辞很让人费解。
Report
AzazelZel
21 Jul 2014 23:50
Guardian Pick
Russia & China have so much in common, they utterly hate free-speech, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
Can't trust either of 'em.
中俄两个国家有好多共同点，没有自由，不愿意接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
Report
Guardian Pick
quarrytone AzazelZel
The US State Department and Pentagon have so much in common, they utterly hate whistle-blowers, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
美国国务院和五角大楼有很多共同点，他们都讨厌告密者，都不肯接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
AJ Doran
21 Jul 2014 21:40
Guardian Pick
Not everyone in the west belives the mainstream western Media anymore, the US and their allies are making a complete mess of the world, first we had Iraq, then libya , then Syria, now Ukraine, what a complete mess... its sickening
现在也不是每个西方人都相信西方媒体，美国及其盟国满世界造孽，先是伊拉克，然后是利比亚，叙利亚，现在轮到乌克兰，什么乱七八糟都有……让人作呕。
Report
DonJuan
21 Jul 2014 21:32
Guardian Pick
"The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
Again the West's media trying to apply the principle of "either you are with us or against us" that Bush Jr so widely practiced. What evidence does China have to blame Russia for the tragedy? None whatsoever.
China is an independent country which has an independent foreign policy. A despicable and terrible sin in the eyes of the West.
“他们越是互相支持，就越加孤立，而这又迫使他们更加彼此依赖。”
西方媒体又在使用小布什得心应手的“不管你是对是错”原则。中国有什么证据来指责俄罗斯吗？什么都没。
中国是个独立自主的国家，有独立自主的外交政策————对某些人来说这是卑鄙可怕的罪行。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 20:06
Guardian Pick
This whole episode just proves that whites talk too much and resort to violence and other stupid behaviours too easily. They have no control over themselves and think that whoever shouts the loudest wins.
整件事情刚好证明，白人总是喋喋不休，动不动就打打杀杀，把暴力当便当。他们自制能力太差，以为嗓门大就行。
Report
Joseph Vek
21 Jul 2014 19:37
Guardian Pick
A typical Asian behavior. I think it's clever strategy. When some facts become public available and it'll be clear who should be responsible for catastrophe, then Chinese leader make his own move.
典型的亚洲方式。我觉得这很明智。当事情真相大白的时候，谁该为这次灾难负责就清楚明了了，那时中国领导人就会有所作为。
Report
Guardian Pick
Gobi Duan Joseph Vek
Isn't it a right way to act?
这么做不对？
Report
Guardian Pick
stopDnoticeUKcensors xifangxinwenpianxin
What you say is so true.
Of course all UK papers are controlled and censored by the UK government by D notices, including this one, which goes some way to explaining the uniform chorus of our media.
At the end of the day our press ( and country) is servile to the interests of the US. Running dogs of America--still true!
楼上你说的没错。
英国所有新闻报纸当然由英国政府控制审查，包括本文，否则如何解释我们的媒体总是异口同声。
在我们的国家停止屈从于美国的利益之前。我们自然就是美国的走狗。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 19:13
Guardian Pick
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
该评论违反版规，已被版主删除，可能包括网友回复。详情请阅读版规。
techcafe
21 Jul 2014 18:54
Guardian Pick
China, self-serving and morally bankrupt, as always
中国一如既往的自私自利道德沦丧。
Report
Guardian Pick
techcafe techcafe
and no better than the Russian Mafia Federation
接上……不比俄罗斯黑手党好到哪里去。
Report
Guardian Pick
Edu1975 techcafe
Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine.
This does seem very sensible.
从政治角度来说，击落客机是很可笑的。也许是误击，因为乌克兰目前局势很乱。
这看着很合理啊。
Report
Phil_Paris
21 Jul 2014 18:32
Guardian Pick
And if the downed plane had been a Chinese plane and not a Malaysian plane ???
What would be the fate of Putin without chinese help ?
假如被击落的客机是中国的而非马来西亚？？？
失去中国支持的普京命运又将如何？
Report
Lallaicha
21 Jul 2014 18:29
Guardian Pick
I have not yet seen any conclusive proof that Russia is responsible for the death of those 300 people.
It is, however, doubtless that Tony Blair and Bush are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in an illegal war that was made on lies! When are sanctions coming?
目前为止还没有什么证据表明普京要为此事300条人命负责。
话说，托尼布莱尔和小布什明显要对夺走成千上万条伊拉克人生命的以谎言为基础的石油战争负责！不知几时审判他们？
Report
Guardian Pick
XXY52891 Lallaicha
The Iraq war is over. What would be the point of sanctions on that now? Certainly sanctions against the US for its continuing drone strikes would probably be a good idea, and of course the world should call for Blair et al. to be arrested, but we cannot go back in time to stop the Iraq war now, even though it would be nice if we could.
Best wishes, XXY52891
伊拉克战争已经过去了。现在说制裁有什么用？当然如果能制裁美国无人机轰炸行为是件好事，
也应该把布莱尔之流抓起来，但我们现在无法回到过去阻止伊拉克战争，即使这样功德无量。
逝者已矣，祝福他们。
原文转自龙腾，作者：乌鸦喝水China stays quiet on MH17 disaster
Closer Sino-Russian relations mean Chinese leaders are loth to apportion blame for downing of Malaysia Airlines plane
中国不曾对MH17空难作出表态。
愈加紧密的中俄关系使得中国领导人对追究马航空难责任不感兴趣。
While western countries are pressing Russia over the MH17 disaster, China has so far steered clear of stating even that a missile downed the plane, let alone tying the event to rebels in Ukraine.
在西方国家就马航空难紧逼俄罗斯的时候，中国到目前为止甚至不肯对飞机遭受导弹攻击做出清晰描述，更别说把矛头指向乌克兰叛军了。
That has been little surprise to observers of warming Sino-Russian relations. The signing of a 30-year gas deal in May – worth about $400bn (￡235bn), analysts believe – is indicative of the growing ties between the two countries, which are making them more inclined to support each other.
中俄关系持续升温已经显示出了一些成果。5月份双方签订了一份有效期长达30年的天然气供应协议——有分析家相信合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑——越来越多的合作关系意味着双方更倾向于作出互相支持的决定。
"China and Russia have gone out of their way to help each other in difficult geopolitical situations a number of times this year," said Rory Medcalf of the Lowy Institute for International Policy.
国际政策研究中心的洛里.梅德卡夫指出，在复杂困难的地缘政治局面下，中国和俄罗斯今年已经竭力做出数次相互支持的行动。
"There's a real effort to deepen strategic closeness between these two countries … We saw that with the summit in April, the joint naval exercises, the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building in Asia, and of course the announcement of the gas pipeline.
两国之间有切实深化关系的举措……我们看到的有4月份举行的峰会，联合军事演习，亚洲互信合作会议，当然了，还有天然气管道项目。
"That only counts if they support each other when they're in strife."
But he added: "The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
“这表明他们在（与西方国家）对抗活动中相互扶持。”但他又强调说：“他们越是互相支持，就越加被孤立，因而又使得他们越加依赖彼此之间的互相支持。”
As permanent members of the UN security council, the two countries will be focused on shaping Monday's resolution on MH17 into one they can sign up to: resisting it would be damaging and embarrassing, said Medcalf. But if Russia decides it must veto this or a later resolution on the crisis, China is unlikely to vote against it. When Moscow vetoed the resolution declaring the Crimea secession referendum illegal, China abstained.
梅德卡夫还说，作为联合国常任理事成员国，这两个国家在周一就马航17空难事件决议中面临困境：阻止决议生成将有损形象并带来尴尬局面。但如果俄罗斯在周一或之后就此事的决议中行使否决权，中国则不大可能投反对票。莫斯科在联合国就宣布克里米亚独立公投为非法的决议中投反对票的时候，中国投了弃权票。
Russia has denied any involvement in the disaster.
Beijing's UN envoy, Liu Jieyi, stressed on Friday that "it is not advisable to jump to any conclusion, make any assumptions or trade accusations" about MH17. State media have reinforced that stance: "The western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic … Russia has been back-footed, forced into a passive stance by western reaction. It is yet another example of the power of western opinion as a political tool," an editorial in the populist Global Times said on Monday.
俄罗斯已经否认了自己和此次事件的任何牵连。
中国驻联合国代表刘结一周五就马航空难事件强调说：“妄下定论，主观假设以及指责行为都是不合适的。”持民族主义的官方媒体环球时报也在周一说：“西方媒体对俄罗斯的责难没有实质证据或逻辑基础……西方媒体的压力已经迫使俄罗斯做出消极姿态。这是西方把舆论作为政治手段的又一例证。”
"Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine."
“从动机上来说，击落客机的行为是十分荒谬的。克兰目前的混乱局面是个错误的前提条件。”
State news agency Xinhua has already criticised the US and Australia as "rash" for blaming Russia, though it added: "If the plane turned out to have been shot down by a missile, the perpetrators should be brought to justice despite their motives and excuses, as it was an intolerable terrorist attack."
国家通讯机构新华社指责了美国和澳大利亚“草率”地将责任归咎于俄罗斯的行为，新华社还补充说：“如果飞机是被导弹击落，凶手就应该被绳之以法，不管他有什么理由和目的，这都是无法接受的恐怖主义行为。”
China has little direct interest in the crash: it took place far from its territory and none of its citizens were on board. There is little doubt Beijing would be in a far more awkward position otherwise.
中国对空难事故兴趣缺缺：事故地点远离其国土，飞机上也没有中国公民。否则中国面临的局面毫无疑问将更加尴尬。Medcalf questioned how far China would be willing to
damage other relationships for Russia's sake, pointing to Australia's substantial contribution to the hunt for MH370, the Malaysia Airlines plane that went missing in March with more than 150 Chinese nationals on board. Now Australia has lost 27 of its citizens and will be looking closely at China's response.
梅德卡夫怀疑，因为俄罗斯的缘故，中国愿意承受和其他国家的双边关系带来多大的伤害，他指出3月份澳大利亚为搜救马航370客机的巨大贡献，而当时该机中最少有150名中国乘客。此次事件澳大利亚27名公民丧生，他会密切关注中国的举动。
But Medcalf added: "Even if China chooses to prioritise the relationship with Russia over its international reputation, I would still think abstention was more likely than a veto."
不过梅德卡夫还说：“即便中国把与俄罗斯的双边关系看的比国际声誉还重，我依然认为他弃权的可能性比投反对票大。”
Dai Guiju, director of the Russian Centre at Beijing Foreign Studies University, noted that China's statements on the MH17 event had so far mirrored Vladimir Putin's and said it would be likely to veto or abstain in voting on a resolution opposed by Russia, unless there was evidence of Russia's direct involvement in the incident.
北京外国语学院俄语中心主任戴桂菊指出，中国就马航17事件的声明中到目前为止还没有提及普京，她说很可能北京会在俄罗斯投反对票的情况下弃权或否决，除非有清晰的证据证明俄罗斯与空难事故有牵连。
But she added that Beijing's relations with Kiev were also a factor: it has been a keen purchaser of Ukraine's attractively priced arms.
不过她还补充说，北京和基辅的关系也是因素之一，中国一直对低价采购乌克兰武器装备感兴趣。
Dai suggested Sino-Russian relations had warmed as Beijing needed Moscow to counterbalance pressure from the US and the EU, and described them as "hot politics and cold economics": "The natural gas deal signed by the two countries, to a certain degree, is driven by political needs rather than economic incentive," she said.
戴桂菊认为北京需要和俄罗斯保持密切关系以应付来自美国和欧洲的压力，她用“经冷政热”来形容两者关系：“两国签署天然气协议，在某种程度上是政治需求而非刺激经济。”
Shi Yinhong, an international relations expert at Renmin University, Beijing, added: "China has a strategic relationship with Russia, the Chinese public is pro-Russia, and Xi himself has a good relationship with Putin.
北京人民大学国际关系专家时殷红补充说：“中国和俄罗斯已经建立战略伙伴关系，中国人民倾向于俄罗斯，习jinping自身也与普京关系良好。”
"The only good relations with the west on China's part is with the EU. If the EU wants China [to be supportive] why not send a high official to talk to Xi Jinping?"
中国唯一和西方保持良好关系的是欧盟。如果欧盟希望中国（的支持）为什么不委派一名高级官员来个习jinping当面沟通？
Even that would not change Beijing's fundamental position, he added, drawing a parallel with the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel the Cheonan by a torpedo in 2010. Beijing never accepted the conclusion of international investigators that North Korea, which denied involvement, was responsible.
他还说即便如此也很难改变中国的立场，2010年韩国海军天安舰被鱼雷击沉。中国一直否认国际组织对朝鲜（朝鲜否认自己参与此事）的调查是负责任的行为。
下为评论：
BizMIS
22 Jul 2014 05:24
Guardian Pick
Don't like this strategic alliance... Tough Tits.
You're well-over a barrel cos your heavy and light manufacturing sector's have gone, as is your apparel sector, your electronics sector et al.
You rely on Russian gas and as for leisure don't even think about going to Blackpool, Yarmouth etc spend yer hard-earned overseas... possibly Asia.
Oh dear what a connundrum you've got yerself in.
As is said in Australia... Suck it up
不喜欢这样的战略联盟……激烈对抗。
因为轻重机械制造业已经尾随服装电子等等产业一样离你远去，你已完全是身不由己。
你们依赖俄罗斯的天然气，休闲时间宁愿去亚洲花辛辛苦苦挣来的外汇也不考虑布莱克浦或雅茅斯。大哥，这就是自作自受。
正如澳大利亚俗话说的：面对那啥的时候，既然无法反抗就好好享受吧。
Report
Dunscore
22 Jul 2014 05:12
Guardian Pick
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
这里面的东西大概可以推测为什么马来西亚航班会遭受不幸。
Report
Victor Lee
22 Jul 2014 05:01
Guardian Pick
A great tragedy and crime has occurred and the perpetrators whomever they may be should be brought to justice. Extensive investigations into the downing of the jet should be done as soon and as objective as possible (free from political bias if possible) before we apportion blame and guilt. Attempts to politicize these tragedy should be avoided as these are not constructive to bring about the investigations. That what's we do in our justice courts.
To hear China's official view (not Global times which is a right leaning tabloid): These are the most recent statements by FM Wang Yi on this issue (on XInhua News):
"
Wang, who is accompanying Chinese President Xi Jinping in an ongoing Latin America tour, made the comments shortly after the UN Security Council adopted a resolution demanding safe and unrestricted access of international experts to the crash site. The resolution is in line with China's consistent position that an independent, fair and objective international probe be carried out to find out the truth, said the minister, noting that China played a constructive role in the deliberations and unanimous passage of the resolution.
Stressing that the tragedy, which claimed 298 lives, should not be repeated, Wand said the current priority is to implement the resolution, especially to give international investigators full access to the crash site. The International Civil Aviation Organization should be allowed to play a key role in the investigation and its professional expertise be brought into full play, he said.
Before the result is produced, he stressed, all parties concerned should refrain from making conjectures and prejudgment and, more importantly, avoid politicizing the issue. The crash further suggests that an early settlement of the Ukraine crisis is the fundamental way to maintain regional peace and stability, Wang said. "We urged all Ukrainian parties concerned to cease fire as soon as possible and conduct dialogue and consultation so as to seek a comprehensive, lasting and balanced political solution," Wang said.
Aren't these declarations by China fair, non hysterical and rational comments?
无与伦比的悲剧，罪恶已经降临，无论肇事者是谁都应该被绳之以法。在对击落客机事件做出全面客观的调查之前（尽量不带政治偏见）我们共同承担悲伤与责任。努力为避免类似悲剧做些建设性的研究，这才是我们司法机构要做的。
听听中国的官方声音，不是来自右倾小报环球时报，而是外交部长王毅在新华社上面说的：
王先生陪同习先生走访拉美，在联合国就马航空难事件做出要确保国际调查人员的安全，在调查现场不受限制的决议后不久表态。他说该决议体现了中国政府的一贯立场，调查要独立客观公正地找出事情真相。他还指出中国在审议决议一致通过过程中发挥了建设性作用。
他强调这个夺去298条生命的事故是个惨剧，毋庸置疑，他还说当前的首要任务是执行联合国决议，特别是要让调查人员毫无阻碍地进入坠机地点。要允许国际民航组织运用其专业知识在调查中发挥关键作用。
他还强调，在调查结果出来之前，有关各方应避免妄自揣测推断，特别是不应政治化。他还认为该事件表明，维护地区的和平与稳定是解决乌克兰危机的根本途径。他说：“我们督促乌克兰各方停止交火并尽快进行对话协商，以寻求一个全面持久平衡的政治局面。”
中国的这些声明不公平吗？不冷静理智吗?
Report
HauptmannGurski
22 Jul 2014 04:25
Guardian Pick
Very wise. The investigation is not complete, so why trumpet conclusions when all is still assumptions? There is still a possibility that it blew up from a bomb within the plane, although it is not likely. The missiles could have been captured from Ukrainian soldiers, sold by the mafia from Moldova, captured from Russia across the border. The investigation is not complete and even when it is, we need to look at everything very closely to ensure that data have not been falsified.
One thing is for sure, Eastern Ukrainians cannot be in the Ukrainian military and NATO bases in Eastern Ukraine would be unwise.
The Chinese would be well aware that the campaign against Russia and President Putin started when Khodorkovsky was disallowed from selling Yukos to outside interests. They don't fall for campaigns so easily it seems. Deceived once too often?
很聪明。调查不完整，为什么有些人用假设来得出结论？说不定飞机上被安装了炸弹，尽管这不大可能。导弹有可能来自被俘的乌克兰军人，或者摩尔多瓦黑手党，甚至从俄罗斯边境偷运过来。调查是不完整的，即便调查完成了，我们也需要看到一切因素是否紧密关键，调查数据真实可靠。
显而易见的是，乌克兰东部不在乌克兰政府军控制范围之内，北约在乌克兰东部建立军事基地也不明智。
Report
Hong Lee
22 Jul 2014 03:22
Guardian Pick
The Guardian is behaving exactly as a shill for the neocons who are acting like hyenas after Russian blood. So this colonial paper is trying to accuse China of not towing the colonial line when China is being rational in a time of hysterical accusations. We don't even know if it was a missile that shot it down. Until pieces of the plane can be tested in the lab to show what type of explosive sticks to the surface, rational persons and jounalists should shut up. There are various analysts who show fact that are germaine to Kyiv being behind this rather than the militants. Following the money I don't think Putin is stupid as to shoot down a civilian plane for he has all the cards already. It is the Kyiv group who are desperately trying to draw in the colonial powers to their side with more aid and weapons. So I would suspect someone from Kyiv side to have done this. The analysts, e.g. the Saker, sound very reasonable.
卫报的新保守主义使得他们看到俄罗斯身上流血的时候有如鬣狗。因此这份充满殖民主义思想的报纸对并非其属国的中国大加批评，因为别人都在歇斯底里地指责（俄罗斯）的时候中国却保持理智。我们现在甚至不清楚到底飞机是不是被导弹击落的。在实验室检测出飞机残骸表面炸药类型之前，聪明人和记者都应该闭上嘴巴。
很多分析家认为这件事由基辅的同党策划的可能性比反对派更大。从金钱角度来说我不觉得普京会蠢到做这种攻击客机的事情，他已经全权在手。反倒是那些希望从列强手里得到更多援助和武器的乌克兰人更有可能。所以我倾向于认为凶手是亲基辅派别的。这样分析看起来很合理。
Report
Mohammed Karim
22 Jul 2014 03:05
Guardian Pick
Sir, China has a strategic and geopolitical relationship to serve their national interest in Central Asia & Europe with her $400bilion gas deals.As regards MH17 crash she is riding on tight rope not to antagonize the Super Powers.Her role in the Security Council will be quite interesting.Missile attack on a civilian plane could open up old wounds of cold war.This could be quite damaging to emerging Nations who are just wriggling out of their century old poverty and deprivation,i am afraid.M.Karim.
先生，中国刚刚签了价值4000亿美元的天然气合同，她在中亚和欧洲的战略以及地缘政治关系是以国家利益为中心的。至于像马航17空难这种事故，她的原则是不和强国搞对抗。她在联合国安理会的作用会很有意思。用导弹攻击客机会揭开冷战时留下的伤疤。我担心很可能对刚刚摆脱贫穷和旧世纪的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
Report
raysimlee
22 Jul 2014 02:32
Guardian Pick
World press including the guardian was very calm when an US carrier shoot down a civilian airliner that belong to Iran. That was use military, US war ship using US missile no less. Western media is far to quick this time to lay blame on Russia. There are of cause other possibilities. However western media ignore alternate possibility. The evident is not in yet.
This Ukrainian war is looking too much a racial war where western leaning Ukrainian with western support is killing ethnic Russian. A race war.
As to possible causes of downing a civilian aircraft. Ukraine could have shoot down a civilian plane knowing that it will cause western uproar. A Ukraine ware plane could have done it by 'mistake'. A Ukraine owned missile could have done it. Ukraine could have under the supervision of CIA or MI6 trick the 'rebel' to open fire. CIA is far too quick to point fingers without proof. No one in the west actually ask these questions. The west practically blame Russia ordered downing the plane. Guilty without proof. Knowing western media they could ever invent evidence that the Chinese or the Arab Muslim(or anybody they hate) did it.
美国击落伊朗客机的时候全世界包括卫报在内的媒体十分冷静。说到使用武力，美军射起导弹来毫无顾虑。这次西方媒体指责起俄罗斯来倒是反应迅速。西方媒体考虑过其他的可能吗，明显没有。
这场发生在乌克兰的战争更像是种族冲突，一边是亲西方的乌克兰人，一边是西方国家欲杀之而后快的俄罗斯人。种族战争。
击落客机的动机，乌克兰可能知道这种事情会让西方沸腾起来。也许是乌克兰军机“误击”的，或者是乌克兰自己用了导弹，或者是以联邦调查局或军情六局为靠山的“反对派”开火了。联邦调查局还没有任何证据就急匆匆地指定对象。西方国家居然没人就此提出质疑。西方媒体毫无根据就指责俄罗斯人击落了客机。了解西方媒体的人都会知道，他们也会创造一些有关中国或阿拉伯穆斯林人或任何他们讨厌的人的证据。
Report
Guardian Pick
Dunscore raysimlee
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
Report
LearningTruth
22 Jul 2014 01:01
Guardian Pick
What's new?
China is waiting for the result of investigation as it always does.
Did China offically claim and blame whatever country on MH370?
这算什么新闻？
中国一如既往的等待调查结果。
马航370事件中国政府指责谁了没有？
Report
HoolyK
22 Jul 2014 00:56
Guardian Pick
What's wrong with countries looking after their own interests? and minding their own business ??
I mean, if I were a leader of China, this is what I would be thinking: was this a Chinese airliner?, were there Chinese nationals among the victims?, was this tragedy committed on Chinese soil?, were Chinese weapons involved?, are there Chinese investigators on the scene to make a determination? ... the answer is No to every questions. Then why in the world would China involve itself in this matter?
Hence I find the tone of this article to be perplexing frankly.
一个国家关心自己的利益，管好自己的事情有错？
我是说，假如我是中国领导人，我会想：飞机是中国的？机上有中国乘客？这个悲剧发生在中国吗？中国的武器？现场有中国调查人员？……没有没有没有没有。那中国干嘛要让自己卷进这件事里？
因此坦白说我觉得这篇文章的措辞很让人费解。
Report
AzazelZel
21 Jul 2014 23:50
Guardian Pick
Russia & China have so much in common, they utterly hate free-speech, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
Can't trust either of 'em.
中俄两个国家有好多共同点，没有自由，不愿意接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
Report
Guardian Pick
quarrytone AzazelZel
The US State Department and Pentagon have so much in common, they utterly hate whistle-blowers, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
美国国务院和五角大楼有很多共同点，他们都讨厌告密者，都不肯接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
AJ Doran
21 Jul 2014 21:40
Guardian Pick
Not everyone in the west belives the mainstream western Media anymore, the US and their allies are making a complete mess of the world, first we had Iraq, then libya , then Syria, now Ukraine, what a complete mess... its sickening
现在也不是每个西方人都相信西方媒体，美国及其盟国满世界造孽，先是伊拉克，然后是利比亚，叙利亚，现在轮到乌克兰，什么乱七八糟都有……让人作呕。
Report
DonJuan
21 Jul 2014 21:32
Guardian Pick
"The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
Again the West's media trying to apply the principle of "either you are with us or against us" that Bush Jr so widely practiced. What evidence does China have to blame Russia for the tragedy? None whatsoever.
China is an independent country which has an independent foreign policy. A despicable and terrible sin in the eyes of the West.
“他们越是互相支持，就越加孤立，而这又迫使他们更加彼此依赖。”
西方媒体又在使用小布什得心应手的“不管你是对是错”原则。中国有什么证据来指责俄罗斯吗？什么都没。
中国是个独立自主的国家，有独立自主的外交政策————对某些人来说这是卑鄙可怕的罪行。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 20:06
Guardian Pick
This whole episode just proves that whites talk too much and resort to violence and other stupid behaviours too easily. They have no control over themselves and think that whoever shouts the loudest wins.
整件事情刚好证明，白人总是喋喋不休，动不动就打打杀杀，把暴力当便当。他们自制能力太差，以为嗓门大就行。
Report
Joseph Vek
21 Jul 2014 19:37
Guardian Pick
A typical Asian behavior. I think it's clever strategy. When some facts become public available and it'll be clear who should be responsible for catastrophe, then Chinese leader make his own move.
典型的亚洲方式。我觉得这很明智。当事情真相大白的时候，谁该为这次灾难负责就清楚明了了，那时中国领导人就会有所作为。
Report
Guardian Pick
Gobi Duan Joseph Vek
Isn't it a right way to act?
这么做不对？
Report
Guardian Pick
stopDnoticeUKcensors xifangxinwenpianxin
What you say is so true.
Of course all UK papers are controlled and censored by the UK government by D notices, including this one, which goes some way to explaining the uniform chorus of our media.
At the end of the day our press ( and country) is servile to the interests of the US. Running dogs of America--still true!
楼上你说的没错。
英国所有新闻报纸当然由英国政府控制审查，包括本文，否则如何解释我们的媒体总是异口同声。
在我们的国家停止屈从于美国的利益之前。我们自然就是美国的走狗。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 19:13
Guardian Pick
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
该评论违反版规，已被版主删除，可能包括网友回复。详情请阅读版规。
techcafe
21 Jul 2014 18:54
Guardian Pick
China, self-serving and morally bankrupt, as always
中国一如既往的自私自利道德沦丧。
Report
Guardian Pick
techcafe techcafe
and no better than the Russian Mafia Federation
接上……不比俄罗斯黑手党好到哪里去。
Report
Guardian Pick
Edu1975 techcafe
Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine.
This does seem very sensible.
从政治角度来说，击落客机是很可笑的。也许是误击，因为乌克兰目前局势很乱。
这看着很合理啊。
Report
Phil_Paris
21 Jul 2014 18:32
Guardian Pick
And if the downed plane had been a Chinese plane and not a Malaysian plane ???
What would be the fate of Putin without chinese help ?
假如被击落的客机是中国的而非马来西亚？？？
失去中国支持的普京命运又将如何？
Report
Lallaicha
21 Jul 2014 18:29
Guardian Pick
I have not yet seen any conclusive proof that Russia is responsible for the death of those 300 people.
It is, however, doubtless that Tony Blair and Bush are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in an illegal war that was made on lies! When are sanctions coming?
目前为止还没有什么证据表明普京要为此事300条人命负责。
话说，托尼布莱尔和小布什明显要对夺走成千上万条伊拉克人生命的以谎言为基础的石油战争负责！不知几时审判他们？
Report
Guardian Pick
XXY52891 Lallaicha
The Iraq war is over. What would be the point of sanctions on that now? Certainly sanctions against the US for its continuing drone strikes would probably be a good idea, and of course the world should call for Blair et al. to be arrested, but we cannot go back in time to stop the Iraq war now, even though it would be nice if we could.
Best wishes, XXY52891
伊拉克战争已经过去了。现在说制裁有什么用？当然如果能制裁美国无人机轰炸行为是件好事，
也应该把布莱尔之流抓起来，但我们现在无法回到过去阻止伊拉克战争，即使这样功德无量。
逝者已矣，祝福他们。
原文转自龙腾，作者：乌鸦喝水
Closer Sino-Russian relations mean Chinese leaders are loth to apportion blame for downing of Malaysia Airlines plane
中国不曾对MH17空难作出表态。
愈加紧密的中俄关系使得中国领导人对追究马航空难责任不感兴趣。
While western countries are pressing Russia over the MH17 disaster, China has so far steered clear of stating even that a missile downed the plane, let alone tying the event to rebels in Ukraine.
在西方国家就马航空难紧逼俄罗斯的时候，中国到目前为止甚至不肯对飞机遭受导弹攻击做出清晰描述，更别说把矛头指向乌克兰叛军了。
That has been little surprise to observers of warming Sino-Russian relations. The signing of a 30-year gas deal in May – worth about $400bn (￡235bn), analysts believe – is indicative of the growing ties between the two countries, which are making them more inclined to support each other.
中俄关系持续升温已经显示出了一些成果。5月份双方签订了一份有效期长达30年的天然气供应协议——有分析家相信合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑——越来越多的合作关系意味着双方更倾向于作出互相支持的决定。
"China and Russia have gone out of their way to help each other in difficult geopolitical situations a number of times this year," said Rory Medcalf of the Lowy Institute for International Policy.
国际政策研究中心的洛里.梅德卡夫指出，在复杂困难的地缘政治局面下，中国和俄罗斯今年已经竭力做出数次相互支持的行动。
"There's a real effort to deepen strategic closeness between these two countries … We saw that with the summit in April, the joint naval exercises, the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building in Asia, and of course the announcement of the gas pipeline.
两国之间有切实深化关系的举措……我们看到的有4月份举行的峰会，联合军事演习，亚洲互信合作会议，当然了，还有天然气管道项目。
"That only counts if they support each other when they're in strife."
But he added: "The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
“这表明他们在（与西方国家）对抗活动中相互扶持。”但他又强调说：“他们越是互相支持，就越加被孤立，因而又使得他们越加依赖彼此之间的互相支持。”
As permanent members of the UN security council, the two countries will be focused on shaping Monday's resolution on MH17 into one they can sign up to: resisting it would be damaging and embarrassing, said Medcalf. But if Russia decides it must veto this or a later resolution on the crisis, China is unlikely to vote against it. When Moscow vetoed the resolution declaring the Crimea secession referendum illegal, China abstained.
梅德卡夫还说，作为联合国常任理事成员国，这两个国家在周一就马航17空难事件决议中面临困境：阻止决议生成将有损形象并带来尴尬局面。但如果俄罗斯在周一或之后就此事的决议中行使否决权，中国则不大可能投反对票。莫斯科在联合国就宣布克里米亚独立公投为非法的决议中投反对票的时候，中国投了弃权票。
Russia has denied any involvement in the disaster.
Beijing's UN envoy, Liu Jieyi, stressed on Friday that "it is not advisable to jump to any conclusion, make any assumptions or trade accusations" about MH17. State media have reinforced that stance: "The western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic … Russia has been back-footed, forced into a passive stance by western reaction. It is yet another example of the power of western opinion as a political tool," an editorial in the populist Global Times said on Monday.
俄罗斯已经否认了自己和此次事件的任何牵连。
中国驻联合国代表刘结一周五就马航空难事件强调说：“妄下定论，主观假设以及指责行为都是不合适的。”持民族主义的官方媒体环球时报也在周一说：“西方媒体对俄罗斯的责难没有实质证据或逻辑基础……西方媒体的压力已经迫使俄罗斯做出消极姿态。这是西方把舆论作为政治手段的又一例证。”
"Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine."
“从动机上来说，击落客机的行为是十分荒谬的。克兰目前的混乱局面是个错误的前提条件。”
State news agency Xinhua has already criticised the US and Australia as "rash" for blaming Russia, though it added: "If the plane turned out to have been shot down by a missile, the perpetrators should be brought to justice despite their motives and excuses, as it was an intolerable terrorist attack."
国家通讯机构新华社指责了美国和澳大利亚“草率”地将责任归咎于俄罗斯的行为，新华社还补充说：“如果飞机是被导弹击落，凶手就应该被绳之以法，不管他有什么理由和目的，这都是无法接受的恐怖主义行为。”
China has little direct interest in the crash: it took place far from its territory and none of its citizens were on board. There is little doubt Beijing would be in a far more awkward position otherwise.
中国对空难事故兴趣缺缺：事故地点远离其国土，飞机上也没有中国公民。否则中国面临的局面毫无疑问将更加尴尬。Medcalf questioned how far China would be willing to
damage other relationships for Russia's sake, pointing to Australia's substantial contribution to the hunt for MH370, the Malaysia Airlines plane that went missing in March with more than 150 Chinese nationals on board. Now Australia has lost 27 of its citizens and will be looking closely at China's response.
梅德卡夫怀疑，因为俄罗斯的缘故，中国愿意承受和其他国家的双边关系带来多大的伤害，他指出3月份澳大利亚为搜救马航370客机的巨大贡献，而当时该机中最少有150名中国乘客。此次事件澳大利亚27名公民丧生，他会密切关注中国的举动。
But Medcalf added: "Even if China chooses to prioritise the relationship with Russia over its international reputation, I would still think abstention was more likely than a veto."
不过梅德卡夫还说：“即便中国把与俄罗斯的双边关系看的比国际声誉还重，我依然认为他弃权的可能性比投反对票大。”
Dai Guiju, director of the Russian Centre at Beijing Foreign Studies University, noted that China's statements on the MH17 event had so far mirrored Vladimir Putin's and said it would be likely to veto or abstain in voting on a resolution opposed by Russia, unless there was evidence of Russia's direct involvement in the incident.
北京外国语学院俄语中心主任戴桂菊指出，中国就马航17事件的声明中到目前为止还没有提及普京，她说很可能北京会在俄罗斯投反对票的情况下弃权或否决，除非有清晰的证据证明俄罗斯与空难事故有牵连。
But she added that Beijing's relations with Kiev were also a factor: it has been a keen purchaser of Ukraine's attractively priced arms.
不过她还补充说，北京和基辅的关系也是因素之一，中国一直对低价采购乌克兰武器装备感兴趣。
Dai suggested Sino-Russian relations had warmed as Beijing needed Moscow to counterbalance pressure from the US and the EU, and described them as "hot politics and cold economics": "The natural gas deal signed by the two countries, to a certain degree, is driven by political needs rather than economic incentive," she said.
戴桂菊认为北京需要和俄罗斯保持密切关系以应付来自美国和欧洲的压力，她用“经冷政热”来形容两者关系：“两国签署天然气协议，在某种程度上是政治需求而非刺激经济。”
Shi Yinhong, an international relations expert at Renmin University, Beijing, added: "China has a strategic relationship with Russia, the Chinese public is pro-Russia, and Xi himself has a good relationship with Putin.
北京人民大学国际关系专家时殷红补充说：“中国和俄罗斯已经建立战略伙伴关系，中国人民倾向于俄罗斯，习jinping自身也与普京关系良好。”
"The only good relations with the west on China's part is with the EU. If the EU wants China [to be supportive] why not send a high official to talk to Xi Jinping?"
中国唯一和西方保持良好关系的是欧盟。如果欧盟希望中国（的支持）为什么不委派一名高级官员来个习jinping当面沟通？
Even that would not change Beijing's fundamental position, he added, drawing a parallel with the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel the Cheonan by a torpedo in 2010. Beijing never accepted the conclusion of international investigators that North Korea, which denied involvement, was responsible.
他还说即便如此也很难改变中国的立场，2010年韩国海军天安舰被鱼雷击沉。中国一直否认国际组织对朝鲜（朝鲜否认自己参与此事）的调查是负责任的行为。
下为评论：
BizMIS
22 Jul 2014 05:24
Guardian Pick
Don't like this strategic alliance... Tough Tits.
You're well-over a barrel cos your heavy and light manufacturing sector's have gone, as is your apparel sector, your electronics sector et al.
You rely on Russian gas and as for leisure don't even think about going to Blackpool, Yarmouth etc spend yer hard-earned overseas... possibly Asia.
Oh dear what a connundrum you've got yerself in.
As is said in Australia... Suck it up
不喜欢这样的战略联盟……激烈对抗。
因为轻重机械制造业已经尾随服装电子等等产业一样离你远去，你已完全是身不由己。
你们依赖俄罗斯的天然气，休闲时间宁愿去亚洲花辛辛苦苦挣来的外汇也不考虑布莱克浦或雅茅斯。大哥，这就是自作自受。
正如澳大利亚俗话说的：面对那啥的时候，既然无法反抗就好好享受吧。
Report
Dunscore
22 Jul 2014 05:12
Guardian Pick
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
这里面的东西大概可以推测为什么马来西亚航班会遭受不幸。
Report
Victor Lee
22 Jul 2014 05:01
Guardian Pick
A great tragedy and crime has occurred and the perpetrators whomever they may be should be brought to justice. Extensive investigations into the downing of the jet should be done as soon and as objective as possible (free from political bias if possible) before we apportion blame and guilt. Attempts to politicize these tragedy should be avoided as these are not constructive to bring about the investigations. That what's we do in our justice courts.
To hear China's official view (not Global times which is a right leaning tabloid): These are the most recent statements by FM Wang Yi on this issue (on XInhua News):
"
Wang, who is accompanying Chinese President Xi Jinping in an ongoing Latin America tour, made the comments shortly after the UN Security Council adopted a resolution demanding safe and unrestricted access of international experts to the crash site. The resolution is in line with China's consistent position that an independent, fair and objective international probe be carried out to find out the truth, said the minister, noting that China played a constructive role in the deliberations and unanimous passage of the resolution.
Stressing that the tragedy, which claimed 298 lives, should not be repeated, Wand said the current priority is to implement the resolution, especially to give international investigators full access to the crash site. The International Civil Aviation Organization should be allowed to play a key role in the investigation and its professional expertise be brought into full play, he said.
Before the result is produced, he stressed, all parties concerned should refrain from making conjectures and prejudgment and, more importantly, avoid politicizing the issue. The crash further suggests that an early settlement of the Ukraine crisis is the fundamental way to maintain regional peace and stability, Wang said. "We urged all Ukrainian parties concerned to cease fire as soon as possible and conduct dialogue and consultation so as to seek a comprehensive, lasting and balanced political solution," Wang said.
Aren't these declarations by China fair, non hysterical and rational comments?
无与伦比的悲剧，罪恶已经降临，无论肇事者是谁都应该被绳之以法。在对击落客机事件做出全面客观的调查之前（尽量不带政治偏见）我们共同承担悲伤与责任。努力为避免类似悲剧做些建设性的研究，这才是我们司法机构要做的。
听听中国的官方声音，不是来自右倾小报环球时报，而是外交部长王毅在新华社上面说的：
王先生陪同习先生走访拉美，在联合国就马航空难事件做出要确保国际调查人员的安全，在调查现场不受限制的决议后不久表态。他说该决议体现了中国政府的一贯立场，调查要独立客观公正地找出事情真相。他还指出中国在审议决议一致通过过程中发挥了建设性作用。
他强调这个夺去298条生命的事故是个惨剧，毋庸置疑，他还说当前的首要任务是执行联合国决议，特别是要让调查人员毫无阻碍地进入坠机地点。要允许国际民航组织运用其专业知识在调查中发挥关键作用。
他还强调，在调查结果出来之前，有关各方应避免妄自揣测推断，特别是不应政治化。他还认为该事件表明，维护地区的和平与稳定是解决乌克兰危机的根本途径。他说：“我们督促乌克兰各方停止交火并尽快进行对话协商，以寻求一个全面持久平衡的政治局面。”
中国的这些声明不公平吗？不冷静理智吗?
Report
HauptmannGurski
22 Jul 2014 04:25
Guardian Pick
Very wise. The investigation is not complete, so why trumpet conclusions when all is still assumptions? There is still a possibility that it blew up from a bomb within the plane, although it is not likely. The missiles could have been captured from Ukrainian soldiers, sold by the mafia from Moldova, captured from Russia across the border. The investigation is not complete and even when it is, we need to look at everything very closely to ensure that data have not been falsified.
One thing is for sure, Eastern Ukrainians cannot be in the Ukrainian military and NATO bases in Eastern Ukraine would be unwise.
The Chinese would be well aware that the campaign against Russia and President Putin started when Khodorkovsky was disallowed from selling Yukos to outside interests. They don't fall for campaigns so easily it seems. Deceived once too often?
很聪明。调查不完整，为什么有些人用假设来得出结论？说不定飞机上被安装了炸弹，尽管这不大可能。导弹有可能来自被俘的乌克兰军人，或者摩尔多瓦黑手党，甚至从俄罗斯边境偷运过来。调查是不完整的，即便调查完成了，我们也需要看到一切因素是否紧密关键，调查数据真实可靠。
显而易见的是，乌克兰东部不在乌克兰政府军控制范围之内，北约在乌克兰东部建立军事基地也不明智。
Report
Hong Lee
22 Jul 2014 03:22
Guardian Pick
The Guardian is behaving exactly as a shill for the neocons who are acting like hyenas after Russian blood. So this colonial paper is trying to accuse China of not towing the colonial line when China is being rational in a time of hysterical accusations. We don't even know if it was a missile that shot it down. Until pieces of the plane can be tested in the lab to show what type of explosive sticks to the surface, rational persons and jounalists should shut up. There are various analysts who show fact that are germaine to Kyiv being behind this rather than the militants. Following the money I don't think Putin is stupid as to shoot down a civilian plane for he has all the cards already. It is the Kyiv group who are desperately trying to draw in the colonial powers to their side with more aid and weapons. So I would suspect someone from Kyiv side to have done this. The analysts, e.g. the Saker, sound very reasonable.
卫报的新保守主义使得他们看到俄罗斯身上流血的时候有如鬣狗。因此这份充满殖民主义思想的报纸对并非其属国的中国大加批评，因为别人都在歇斯底里地指责（俄罗斯）的时候中国却保持理智。我们现在甚至不清楚到底飞机是不是被导弹击落的。在实验室检测出飞机残骸表面炸药类型之前，聪明人和记者都应该闭上嘴巴。
很多分析家认为这件事由基辅的同党策划的可能性比反对派更大。从金钱角度来说我不觉得普京会蠢到做这种攻击客机的事情，他已经全权在手。反倒是那些希望从列强手里得到更多援助和武器的乌克兰人更有可能。所以我倾向于认为凶手是亲基辅派别的。这样分析看起来很合理。
Report
Mohammed Karim
22 Jul 2014 03:05
Guardian Pick
Sir, China has a strategic and geopolitical relationship to serve their national interest in Central Asia & Europe with her $400bilion gas deals.As regards MH17 crash she is riding on tight rope not to antagonize the Super Powers.Her role in the Security Council will be quite interesting.Missile attack on a civilian plane could open up old wounds of cold war.This could be quite damaging to emerging Nations who are just wriggling out of their century old poverty and deprivation,i am afraid.M.Karim.
先生，中国刚刚签了价值4000亿美元的天然气合同，她在中亚和欧洲的战略以及地缘政治关系是以国家利益为中心的。至于像马航17空难这种事故，她的原则是不和强国搞对抗。她在联合国安理会的作用会很有意思。用导弹攻击客机会揭开冷战时留下的伤疤。我担心很可能对刚刚摆脱贫穷和旧世纪的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
Report
raysimlee
22 Jul 2014 02:32
Guardian Pick
World press including the guardian was very calm when an US carrier shoot down a civilian airliner that belong to Iran. That was use military, US war ship using US missile no less. Western media is far to quick this time to lay blame on Russia. There are of cause other possibilities. However western media ignore alternate possibility. The evident is not in yet.
This Ukrainian war is looking too much a racial war where western leaning Ukrainian with western support is killing ethnic Russian. A race war.
As to possible causes of downing a civilian aircraft. Ukraine could have shoot down a civilian plane knowing that it will cause western uproar. A Ukraine ware plane could have done it by 'mistake'. A Ukraine owned missile could have done it. Ukraine could have under the supervision of CIA or MI6 trick the 'rebel' to open fire. CIA is far too quick to point fingers without proof. No one in the west actually ask these questions. The west practically blame Russia ordered downing the plane. Guilty without proof. Knowing western media they could ever invent evidence that the Chinese or the Arab Muslim(or anybody they hate) did it.
美国击落伊朗客机的时候全世界包括卫报在内的媒体十分冷静。说到使用武力，美军射起导弹来毫无顾虑。这次西方媒体指责起俄罗斯来倒是反应迅速。西方媒体考虑过其他的可能吗，明显没有。
这场发生在乌克兰的战争更像是种族冲突，一边是亲西方的乌克兰人，一边是西方国家欲杀之而后快的俄罗斯人。种族战争。
击落客机的动机，乌克兰可能知道这种事情会让西方沸腾起来。也许是乌克兰军机“误击”的，或者是乌克兰自己用了导弹，或者是以联邦调查局或军情六局为靠山的“反对派”开火了。联邦调查局还没有任何证据就急匆匆地指定对象。西方国家居然没人就此提出质疑。西方媒体毫无根据就指责俄罗斯人击落了客机。了解西方媒体的人都会知道，他们也会创造一些有关中国或阿拉伯穆斯林人或任何他们讨厌的人的证据。
Report
Guardian Pick
Dunscore raysimlee
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
Report
LearningTruth
22 Jul 2014 01:01
Guardian Pick
What's new?
China is waiting for the result of investigation as it always does.
Did China offically claim and blame whatever country on MH370?
这算什么新闻？
中国一如既往的等待调查结果。
马航370事件中国政府指责谁了没有？
Report
HoolyK
22 Jul 2014 00:56
Guardian Pick
What's wrong with countries looking after their own interests? and minding their own business ??
I mean, if I were a leader of China, this is what I would be thinking: was this a Chinese airliner?, were there Chinese nationals among the victims?, was this tragedy committed on Chinese soil?, were Chinese weapons involved?, are there Chinese investigators on the scene to make a determination? ... the answer is No to every questions. Then why in the world would China involve itself in this matter?
Hence I find the tone of this article to be perplexing frankly.
一个国家关心自己的利益，管好自己的事情有错？
我是说，假如我是中国领导人，我会想：飞机是中国的？机上有中国乘客？这个悲剧发生在中国吗？中国的武器？现场有中国调查人员？……没有没有没有没有。那中国干嘛要让自己卷进这件事里？
因此坦白说我觉得这篇文章的措辞很让人费解。
Report
AzazelZel
21 Jul 2014 23:50
Guardian Pick
Russia & China have so much in common, they utterly hate free-speech, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
Can't trust either of 'em.
中俄两个国家有好多共同点，没有自由，不愿意接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
Report
Guardian Pick
quarrytone AzazelZel
The US State Department and Pentagon have so much in common, they utterly hate whistle-blowers, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
美国国务院和五角大楼有很多共同点，他们都讨厌告密者，都不肯接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
AJ Doran
21 Jul 2014 21:40
Guardian Pick
Not everyone in the west belives the mainstream western Media anymore, the US and their allies are making a complete mess of the world, first we had Iraq, then libya , then Syria, now Ukraine, what a complete mess... its sickening
现在也不是每个西方人都相信西方媒体，美国及其盟国满世界造孽，先是伊拉克，然后是利比亚，叙利亚，现在轮到乌克兰，什么乱七八糟都有……让人作呕。
Report
DonJuan
21 Jul 2014 21:32
Guardian Pick
"The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
Again the West's media trying to apply the principle of "either you are with us or against us" that Bush Jr so widely practiced. What evidence does China have to blame Russia for the tragedy? None whatsoever.
China is an independent country which has an independent foreign policy. A despicable and terrible sin in the eyes of the West.
“他们越是互相支持，就越加孤立，而这又迫使他们更加彼此依赖。”
西方媒体又在使用小布什得心应手的“不管你是对是错”原则。中国有什么证据来指责俄罗斯吗？什么都没。
中国是个独立自主的国家，有独立自主的外交政策————对某些人来说这是卑鄙可怕的罪行。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 20:06
Guardian Pick
This whole episode just proves that whites talk too much and resort to violence and other stupid behaviours too easily. They have no control over themselves and think that whoever shouts the loudest wins.
整件事情刚好证明，白人总是喋喋不休，动不动就打打杀杀，把暴力当便当。他们自制能力太差，以为嗓门大就行。
Report
Joseph Vek
21 Jul 2014 19:37
Guardian Pick
A typical Asian behavior. I think it's clever strategy. When some facts become public available and it'll be clear who should be responsible for catastrophe, then Chinese leader make his own move.
典型的亚洲方式。我觉得这很明智。当事情真相大白的时候，谁该为这次灾难负责就清楚明了了，那时中国领导人就会有所作为。
Report
Guardian Pick
Gobi Duan Joseph Vek
Isn't it a right way to act?
这么做不对？
Report
Guardian Pick
stopDnoticeUKcensors xifangxinwenpianxin
What you say is so true.
Of course all UK papers are controlled and censored by the UK government by D notices, including this one, which goes some way to explaining the uniform chorus of our media.
At the end of the day our press ( and country) is servile to the interests of the US. Running dogs of America--still true!
楼上你说的没错。
英国所有新闻报纸当然由英国政府控制审查，包括本文，否则如何解释我们的媒体总是异口同声。
在我们的国家停止屈从于美国的利益之前。我们自然就是美国的走狗。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 19:13
Guardian Pick
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
该评论违反版规，已被版主删除，可能包括网友回复。详情请阅读版规。
techcafe
21 Jul 2014 18:54
Guardian Pick
China, self-serving and morally bankrupt, as always
中国一如既往的自私自利道德沦丧。
Report
Guardian Pick
techcafe techcafe
and no better than the Russian Mafia Federation
接上……不比俄罗斯黑手党好到哪里去。
Report
Guardian Pick
Edu1975 techcafe
Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine.
This does seem very sensible.
从政治角度来说，击落客机是很可笑的。也许是误击，因为乌克兰目前局势很乱。
这看着很合理啊。
Report
Phil_Paris
21 Jul 2014 18:32
Guardian Pick
And if the downed plane had been a Chinese plane and not a Malaysian plane ???
What would be the fate of Putin without chinese help ?
假如被击落的客机是中国的而非马来西亚？？？
失去中国支持的普京命运又将如何？
Report
Lallaicha
21 Jul 2014 18:29
Guardian Pick
I have not yet seen any conclusive proof that Russia is responsible for the death of those 300 people.
It is, however, doubtless that Tony Blair and Bush are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in an illegal war that was made on lies! When are sanctions coming?
目前为止还没有什么证据表明普京要为此事300条人命负责。
话说，托尼布莱尔和小布什明显要对夺走成千上万条伊拉克人生命的以谎言为基础的石油战争负责！不知几时审判他们？
Report
Guardian Pick
XXY52891 Lallaicha
The Iraq war is over. What would be the point of sanctions on that now? Certainly sanctions against the US for its continuing drone strikes would probably be a good idea, and of course the world should call for Blair et al. to be arrested, but we cannot go back in time to stop the Iraq war now, even though it would be nice if we could.
Best wishes, XXY52891
伊拉克战争已经过去了。现在说制裁有什么用？当然如果能制裁美国无人机轰炸行为是件好事，
也应该把布莱尔之流抓起来，但我们现在无法回到过去阻止伊拉克战争，即使这样功德无量。
逝者已矣，祝福他们。
原文转自龙腾，作者：乌鸦喝水China stays quiet on MH17 disaster
Closer Sino-Russian relations mean Chinese leaders are loth to apportion blame for downing of Malaysia Airlines plane
中国不曾对MH17空难作出表态。
愈加紧密的中俄关系使得中国领导人对追究马航空难责任不感兴趣。
While western countries are pressing Russia over the MH17 disaster, China has so far steered clear of stating even that a missile downed the plane, let alone tying the event to rebels in Ukraine.
在西方国家就马航空难紧逼俄罗斯的时候，中国到目前为止甚至不肯对飞机遭受导弹攻击做出清晰描述，更别说把矛头指向乌克兰叛军了。
That has been little surprise to observers of warming Sino-Russian relations. The signing of a 30-year gas deal in May – worth about $400bn (￡235bn), analysts believe – is indicative of the growing ties between the two countries, which are making them more inclined to support each other.
中俄关系持续升温已经显示出了一些成果。5月份双方签订了一份有效期长达30年的天然气供应协议——有分析家相信合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑——越来越多的合作关系意味着双方更倾向于作出互相支持的决定。
"China and Russia have gone out of their way to help each other in difficult geopolitical situations a number of times this year," said Rory Medcalf of the Lowy Institute for International Policy.
国际政策研究中心的洛里.梅德卡夫指出，在复杂困难的地缘政治局面下，中国和俄罗斯今年已经竭力做出数次相互支持的行动。
"There's a real effort to deepen strategic closeness between these two countries … We saw that with the summit in April, the joint naval exercises, the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building in Asia, and of course the announcement of the gas pipeline.
两国之间有切实深化关系的举措……我们看到的有4月份举行的峰会，联合军事演习，亚洲互信合作会议，当然了，还有天然气管道项目。
"That only counts if they support each other when they're in strife."
But he added: "The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
“这表明他们在（与西方国家）对抗活动中相互扶持。”但他又强调说：“他们越是互相支持，就越加被孤立，因而又使得他们越加依赖彼此之间的互相支持。”
As permanent members of the UN security council, the two countries will be focused on shaping Monday's resolution on MH17 into one they can sign up to: resisting it would be damaging and embarrassing, said Medcalf. But if Russia decides it must veto this or a later resolution on the crisis, China is unlikely to vote against it. When Moscow vetoed the resolution declaring the Crimea secession referendum illegal, China abstained.
梅德卡夫还说，作为联合国常任理事成员国，这两个国家在周一就马航17空难事件决议中面临困境：阻止决议生成将有损形象并带来尴尬局面。但如果俄罗斯在周一或之后就此事的决议中行使否决权，中国则不大可能投反对票。莫斯科在联合国就宣布克里米亚独立公投为非法的决议中投反对票的时候，中国投了弃权票。
Russia has denied any involvement in the disaster.
Beijing's UN envoy, Liu Jieyi, stressed on Friday that "it is not advisable to jump to any conclusion, make any assumptions or trade accusations" about MH17. State media have reinforced that stance: "The western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic … Russia has been back-footed, forced into a passive stance by western reaction. It is yet another example of the power of western opinion as a political tool," an editorial in the populist Global Times said on Monday.
俄罗斯已经否认了自己和此次事件的任何牵连。
中国驻联合国代表刘结一周五就马航空难事件强调说：“妄下定论，主观假设以及指责行为都是不合适的。”持民族主义的官方媒体环球时报也在周一说：“西方媒体对俄罗斯的责难没有实质证据或逻辑基础……西方媒体的压力已经迫使俄罗斯做出消极姿态。这是西方把舆论作为政治手段的又一例证。”
"Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine."
“从动机上来说，击落客机的行为是十分荒谬的。克兰目前的混乱局面是个错误的前提条件。”
State news agency Xinhua has already criticised the US and Australia as "rash" for blaming Russia, though it added: "If the plane turned out to have been shot down by a missile, the perpetrators should be brought to justice despite their motives and excuses, as it was an intolerable terrorist attack."
国家通讯机构新华社指责了美国和澳大利亚“草率”地将责任归咎于俄罗斯的行为，新华社还补充说：“如果飞机是被导弹击落，凶手就应该被绳之以法，不管他有什么理由和目的，这都是无法接受的恐怖主义行为。”
China has little direct interest in the crash: it took place far from its territory and none of its citizens were on board. There is little doubt Beijing would be in a far more awkward position otherwise.
中国对空难事故兴趣缺缺：事故地点远离其国土，飞机上也没有中国公民。否则中国面临的局面毫无疑问将更加尴尬。Medcalf questioned how far China would be willing to
damage other relationships for Russia's sake, pointing to Australia's substantial contribution to the hunt for MH370, the Malaysia Airlines plane that went missing in March with more than 150 Chinese nationals on board. Now Australia has lost 27 of its citizens and will be looking closely at China's response.
梅德卡夫怀疑，因为俄罗斯的缘故，中国愿意承受和其他国家的双边关系带来多大的伤害，他指出3月份澳大利亚为搜救马航370客机的巨大贡献，而当时该机中最少有150名中国乘客。此次事件澳大利亚27名公民丧生，他会密切关注中国的举动。
But Medcalf added: "Even if China chooses to prioritise the relationship with Russia over its international reputation, I would still think abstention was more likely than a veto."
不过梅德卡夫还说：“即便中国把与俄罗斯的双边关系看的比国际声誉还重，我依然认为他弃权的可能性比投反对票大。”
Dai Guiju, director of the Russian Centre at Beijing Foreign Studies University, noted that China's statements on the MH17 event had so far mirrored Vladimir Putin's and said it would be likely to veto or abstain in voting on a resolution opposed by Russia, unless there was evidence of Russia's direct involvement in the incident.
北京外国语学院俄语中心主任戴桂菊指出，中国就马航17事件的声明中到目前为止还没有提及普京，她说很可能北京会在俄罗斯投反对票的情况下弃权或否决，除非有清晰的证据证明俄罗斯与空难事故有牵连。
But she added that Beijing's relations with Kiev were also a factor: it has been a keen purchaser of Ukraine's attractively priced arms.
不过她还补充说，北京和基辅的关系也是因素之一，中国一直对低价采购乌克兰武器装备感兴趣。
Dai suggested Sino-Russian relations had warmed as Beijing needed Moscow to counterbalance pressure from the US and the EU, and described them as "hot politics and cold economics": "The natural gas deal signed by the two countries, to a certain degree, is driven by political needs rather than economic incentive," she said.
戴桂菊认为北京需要和俄罗斯保持密切关系以应付来自美国和欧洲的压力，她用“经冷政热”来形容两者关系：“两国签署天然气协议，在某种程度上是政治需求而非刺激经济。”
Shi Yinhong, an international relations expert at Renmin University, Beijing, added: "China has a strategic relationship with Russia, the Chinese public is pro-Russia, and Xi himself has a good relationship with Putin.
北京人民大学国际关系专家时殷红补充说：“中国和俄罗斯已经建立战略伙伴关系，中国人民倾向于俄罗斯，习jinping自身也与普京关系良好。”
"The only good relations with the west on China's part is with the EU. If the EU wants China [to be supportive] why not send a high official to talk to Xi Jinping?"
中国唯一和西方保持良好关系的是欧盟。如果欧盟希望中国（的支持）为什么不委派一名高级官员来个习jinping当面沟通？
Even that would not change Beijing's fundamental position, he added, drawing a parallel with the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel the Cheonan by a torpedo in 2010. Beijing never accepted the conclusion of international investigators that North Korea, which denied involvement, was responsible.
他还说即便如此也很难改变中国的立场，2010年韩国海军天安舰被鱼雷击沉。中国一直否认国际组织对朝鲜（朝鲜否认自己参与此事）的调查是负责任的行为。
下为评论：
BizMIS
22 Jul 2014 05:24
Guardian Pick
Don't like this strategic alliance... Tough Tits.
You're well-over a barrel cos your heavy and light manufacturing sector's have gone, as is your apparel sector, your electronics sector et al.
You rely on Russian gas and as for leisure don't even think about going to Blackpool, Yarmouth etc spend yer hard-earned overseas... possibly Asia.
Oh dear what a connundrum you've got yerself in.
As is said in Australia... Suck it up
不喜欢这样的战略联盟……激烈对抗。
因为轻重机械制造业已经尾随服装电子等等产业一样离你远去，你已完全是身不由己。
你们依赖俄罗斯的天然气，休闲时间宁愿去亚洲花辛辛苦苦挣来的外汇也不考虑布莱克浦或雅茅斯。大哥，这就是自作自受。
正如澳大利亚俗话说的：面对那啥的时候，既然无法反抗就好好享受吧。
Report
Dunscore
22 Jul 2014 05:12
Guardian Pick
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
这里面的东西大概可以推测为什么马来西亚航班会遭受不幸。
Report
Victor Lee
22 Jul 2014 05:01
Guardian Pick
A great tragedy and crime has occurred and the perpetrators whomever they may be should be brought to justice. Extensive investigations into the downing of the jet should be done as soon and as objective as possible (free from political bias if possible) before we apportion blame and guilt. Attempts to politicize these tragedy should be avoided as these are not constructive to bring about the investigations. That what's we do in our justice courts.
To hear China's official view (not Global times which is a right leaning tabloid): These are the most recent statements by FM Wang Yi on this issue (on XInhua News):
"
Wang, who is accompanying Chinese President Xi Jinping in an ongoing Latin America tour, made the comments shortly after the UN Security Council adopted a resolution demanding safe and unrestricted access of international experts to the crash site. The resolution is in line with China's consistent position that an independent, fair and objective international probe be carried out to find out the truth, said the minister, noting that China played a constructive role in the deliberations and unanimous passage of the resolution.
Stressing that the tragedy, which claimed 298 lives, should not be repeated, Wand said the current priority is to implement the resolution, especially to give international investigators full access to the crash site. The International Civil Aviation Organization should be allowed to play a key role in the investigation and its professional expertise be brought into full play, he said.
Before the result is produced, he stressed, all parties concerned should refrain from making conjectures and prejudgment and, more importantly, avoid politicizing the issue. The crash further suggests that an early settlement of the Ukraine crisis is the fundamental way to maintain regional peace and stability, Wang said. "We urged all Ukrainian parties concerned to cease fire as soon as possible and conduct dialogue and consultation so as to seek a comprehensive, lasting and balanced political solution," Wang said.
Aren't these declarations by China fair, non hysterical and rational comments?
无与伦比的悲剧，罪恶已经降临，无论肇事者是谁都应该被绳之以法。在对击落客机事件做出全面客观的调查之前（尽量不带政治偏见）我们共同承担悲伤与责任。努力为避免类似悲剧做些建设性的研究，这才是我们司法机构要做的。
听听中国的官方声音，不是来自右倾小报环球时报，而是外交部长王毅在新华社上面说的：
王先生陪同习先生走访拉美，在联合国就马航空难事件做出要确保国际调查人员的安全，在调查现场不受限制的决议后不久表态。他说该决议体现了中国政府的一贯立场，调查要独立客观公正地找出事情真相。他还指出中国在审议决议一致通过过程中发挥了建设性作用。
他强调这个夺去298条生命的事故是个惨剧，毋庸置疑，他还说当前的首要任务是执行联合国决议，特别是要让调查人员毫无阻碍地进入坠机地点。要允许国际民航组织运用其专业知识在调查中发挥关键作用。
他还强调，在调查结果出来之前，有关各方应避免妄自揣测推断，特别是不应政治化。他还认为该事件表明，维护地区的和平与稳定是解决乌克兰危机的根本途径。他说：“我们督促乌克兰各方停止交火并尽快进行对话协商，以寻求一个全面持久平衡的政治局面。”
中国的这些声明不公平吗？不冷静理智吗?
Report
HauptmannGurski
22 Jul 2014 04:25
Guardian Pick
Very wise. The investigation is not complete, so why trumpet conclusions when all is still assumptions? There is still a possibility that it blew up from a bomb within the plane, although it is not likely. The missiles could have been captured from Ukrainian soldiers, sold by the mafia from Moldova, captured from Russia across the border. The investigation is not complete and even when it is, we need to look at everything very closely to ensure that data have not been falsified.
One thing is for sure, Eastern Ukrainians cannot be in the Ukrainian military and NATO bases in Eastern Ukraine would be unwise.
The Chinese would be well aware that the campaign against Russia and President Putin started when Khodorkovsky was disallowed from selling Yukos to outside interests. They don't fall for campaigns so easily it seems. Deceived once too often?
很聪明。调查不完整，为什么有些人用假设来得出结论？说不定飞机上被安装了炸弹，尽管这不大可能。导弹有可能来自被俘的乌克兰军人，或者摩尔多瓦黑手党，甚至从俄罗斯边境偷运过来。调查是不完整的，即便调查完成了，我们也需要看到一切因素是否紧密关键，调查数据真实可靠。
显而易见的是，乌克兰东部不在乌克兰政府军控制范围之内，北约在乌克兰东部建立军事基地也不明智。
Report
Hong Lee
22 Jul 2014 03:22
Guardian Pick
The Guardian is behaving exactly as a shill for the neocons who are acting like hyenas after Russian blood. So this colonial paper is trying to accuse China of not towing the colonial line when China is being rational in a time of hysterical accusations. We don't even know if it was a missile that shot it down. Until pieces of the plane can be tested in the lab to show what type of explosive sticks to the surface, rational persons and jounalists should shut up. There are various analysts who show fact that are germaine to Kyiv being behind this rather than the militants. Following the money I don't think Putin is stupid as to shoot down a civilian plane for he has all the cards already. It is the Kyiv group who are desperately trying to draw in the colonial powers to their side with more aid and weapons. So I would suspect someone from Kyiv side to have done this. The analysts, e.g. the Saker, sound very reasonable.
卫报的新保守主义使得他们看到俄罗斯身上流血的时候有如鬣狗。因此这份充满殖民主义思想的报纸对并非其属国的中国大加批评，因为别人都在歇斯底里地指责（俄罗斯）的时候中国却保持理智。我们现在甚至不清楚到底飞机是不是被导弹击落的。在实验室检测出飞机残骸表面炸药类型之前，聪明人和记者都应该闭上嘴巴。
很多分析家认为这件事由基辅的同党策划的可能性比反对派更大。从金钱角度来说我不觉得普京会蠢到做这种攻击客机的事情，他已经全权在手。反倒是那些希望从列强手里得到更多援助和武器的乌克兰人更有可能。所以我倾向于认为凶手是亲基辅派别的。这样分析看起来很合理。
Report
Mohammed Karim
22 Jul 2014 03:05
Guardian Pick
Sir, China has a strategic and geopolitical relationship to serve their national interest in Central Asia & Europe with her $400bilion gas deals.As regards MH17 crash she is riding on tight rope not to antagonize the Super Powers.Her role in the Security Council will be quite interesting.Missile attack on a civilian plane could open up old wounds of cold war.This could be quite damaging to emerging Nations who are just wriggling out of their century old poverty and deprivation,i am afraid.M.Karim.
先生，中国刚刚签了价值4000亿美元的天然气合同，她在中亚和欧洲的战略以及地缘政治关系是以国家利益为中心的。至于像马航17空难这种事故，她的原则是不和强国搞对抗。她在联合国安理会的作用会很有意思。用导弹攻击客机会揭开冷战时留下的伤疤。我担心很可能对刚刚摆脱贫穷和旧世纪的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
的剥削的新兴国家带来伤害。
Report
raysimlee
22 Jul 2014 02:32
Guardian Pick
World press including the guardian was very calm when an US carrier shoot down a civilian airliner that belong to Iran. That was use military, US war ship using US missile no less. Western media is far to quick this time to lay blame on Russia. There are of cause other possibilities. However western media ignore alternate possibility. The evident is not in yet.
This Ukrainian war is looking too much a racial war where western leaning Ukrainian with western support is killing ethnic Russian. A race war.
As to possible causes of downing a civilian aircraft. Ukraine could have shoot down a civilian plane knowing that it will cause western uproar. A Ukraine ware plane could have done it by 'mistake'. A Ukraine owned missile could have done it. Ukraine could have under the supervision of CIA or MI6 trick the 'rebel' to open fire. CIA is far too quick to point fingers without proof. No one in the west actually ask these questions. The west practically blame Russia ordered downing the plane. Guilty without proof. Knowing western media they could ever invent evidence that the Chinese or the Arab Muslim(or anybody they hate) did it.
美国击落伊朗客机的时候全世界包括卫报在内的媒体十分冷静。说到使用武力，美军射起导弹来毫无顾虑。这次西方媒体指责起俄罗斯来倒是反应迅速。西方媒体考虑过其他的可能吗，明显没有。
这场发生在乌克兰的战争更像是种族冲突，一边是亲西方的乌克兰人，一边是西方国家欲杀之而后快的俄罗斯人。种族战争。
击落客机的动机，乌克兰可能知道这种事情会让西方沸腾起来。也许是乌克兰军机“误击”的，或者是乌克兰自己用了导弹，或者是以联邦调查局或军情六局为靠山的“反对派”开火了。联邦调查局还没有任何证据就急匆匆地指定对象。西方国家居然没人就此提出质疑。西方媒体毫无根据就指责俄罗斯人击落了客机。了解西方媒体的人都会知道，他们也会创造一些有关中国或阿拉伯穆斯林人或任何他们讨厌的人的证据。
Report
Guardian Pick
Dunscore raysimlee
These links might throw light on why it is Malaysian Airlines who are suffering:
Report
LearningTruth
22 Jul 2014 01:01
Guardian Pick
What's new?
China is waiting for the result of investigation as it always does.
Did China offically claim and blame whatever country on MH370?
这算什么新闻？
中国一如既往的等待调查结果。
马航370事件中国政府指责谁了没有？
Report
HoolyK
22 Jul 2014 00:56
Guardian Pick
What's wrong with countries looking after their own interests? and minding their own business ??
I mean, if I were a leader of China, this is what I would be thinking: was this a Chinese airliner?, were there Chinese nationals among the victims?, was this tragedy committed on Chinese soil?, were Chinese weapons involved?, are there Chinese investigators on the scene to make a determination? ... the answer is No to every questions. Then why in the world would China involve itself in this matter?
Hence I find the tone of this article to be perplexing frankly.
一个国家关心自己的利益，管好自己的事情有错？
我是说，假如我是中国领导人，我会想：飞机是中国的？机上有中国乘客？这个悲剧发生在中国吗？中国的武器？现场有中国调查人员？……没有没有没有没有。那中国干嘛要让自己卷进这件事里？
因此坦白说我觉得这篇文章的措辞很让人费解。
Report
AzazelZel
21 Jul 2014 23:50
Guardian Pick
Russia & China have so much in common, they utterly hate free-speech, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
Can't trust either of 'em.
中俄两个国家有好多共同点，没有自由，不愿意接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
Report
Guardian Pick
quarrytone AzazelZel
The US State Department and Pentagon have so much in common, they utterly hate whistle-blowers, and neither of them can take criticism, although both freely dish it out at the rest of the world.
美国国务院和五角大楼有很多共同点，他们都讨厌告密者，都不肯接受批评，尽管他们都乐于指责别人。
AJ Doran
21 Jul 2014 21:40
Guardian Pick
Not everyone in the west belives the mainstream western Media anymore, the US and their allies are making a complete mess of the world, first we had Iraq, then libya , then Syria, now Ukraine, what a complete mess... its sickening
现在也不是每个西方人都相信西方媒体，美国及其盟国满世界造孽，先是伊拉克，然后是利比亚，叙利亚，现在轮到乌克兰，什么乱七八糟都有……让人作呕。
Report
DonJuan
21 Jul 2014 21:32
Guardian Pick
"The more they help each other, the more isolated they become and therefore the more they need to help each other."
Again the West's media trying to apply the principle of "either you are with us or against us" that Bush Jr so widely practiced. What evidence does China have to blame Russia for the tragedy? None whatsoever.
China is an independent country which has an independent foreign policy. A despicable and terrible sin in the eyes of the West.
“他们越是互相支持，就越加孤立，而这又迫使他们更加彼此依赖。”
西方媒体又在使用小布什得心应手的“不管你是对是错”原则。中国有什么证据来指责俄罗斯吗？什么都没。
中国是个独立自主的国家，有独立自主的外交政策————对某些人来说这是卑鄙可怕的罪行。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 20:06
Guardian Pick
This whole episode just proves that whites talk too much and resort to violence and other stupid behaviours too easily. They have no control over themselves and think that whoever shouts the loudest wins.
整件事情刚好证明，白人总是喋喋不休，动不动就打打杀杀，把暴力当便当。他们自制能力太差，以为嗓门大就行。
Report
Joseph Vek
21 Jul 2014 19:37
Guardian Pick
A typical Asian behavior. I think it's clever strategy. When some facts become public available and it'll be clear who should be responsible for catastrophe, then Chinese leader make his own move.
典型的亚洲方式。我觉得这很明智。当事情真相大白的时候，谁该为这次灾难负责就清楚明了了，那时中国领导人就会有所作为。
Report
Guardian Pick
Gobi Duan Joseph Vek
Isn't it a right way to act?
这么做不对？
Report
Guardian Pick
stopDnoticeUKcensors xifangxinwenpianxin
What you say is so true.
Of course all UK papers are controlled and censored by the UK government by D notices, including this one, which goes some way to explaining the uniform chorus of our media.
At the end of the day our press ( and country) is servile to the interests of the US. Running dogs of America--still true!
楼上你说的没错。
英国所有新闻报纸当然由英国政府控制审查，包括本文，否则如何解释我们的媒体总是异口同声。
在我们的国家停止屈从于美国的利益之前。我们自然就是美国的走狗。
Report
Lion Prey
21 Jul 2014 19:13
Guardian Pick
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
该评论违反版规，已被版主删除，可能包括网友回复。详情请阅读版规。
techcafe
21 Jul 2014 18:54
Guardian Pick
China, self-serving and morally bankrupt, as always
中国一如既往的自私自利道德沦丧。
Report
Guardian Pick
techcafe techcafe
and no better than the Russian Mafia Federation
接上……不比俄罗斯黑手党好到哪里去。
Report
Guardian Pick
Edu1975 techcafe
Politically speaking, shooting down a passenger jet would be ridiculous. It could have been an error, the precondition for which is the chaos within Ukraine.
This does seem very sensible.
从政治角度来说，击落客机是很可笑的。也许是误击，因为乌克兰目前局势很乱。
这看着很合理啊。
Report
Phil_Paris
21 Jul 2014 18:32
Guardian Pick
And if the downed plane had been a Chinese plane and not a Malaysian plane ???
What would be the fate of Putin without chinese help ?
假如被击落的客机是中国的而非马来西亚？？？
失去中国支持的普京命运又将如何？
Report
Lallaicha
21 Jul 2014 18:29
Guardian Pick
I have not yet seen any conclusive proof that Russia is responsible for the death of those 300 people.
It is, however, doubtless that Tony Blair and Bush are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in an illegal war that was made on lies! When are sanctions coming?
目前为止还没有什么证据表明普京要为此事300条人命负责。
话说，托尼布莱尔和小布什明显要对夺走成千上万条伊拉克人生命的以谎言为基础的石油战争负责！不知几时审判他们？
Report
Guardian Pick
XXY52891 Lallaicha
The Iraq war is over. What would be the point of sanctions on that now? Certainly sanctions against the US for its continuing drone strikes would probably be a good idea, and of course the world should call for Blair et al. to be arrested, but we cannot go back in time to stop the Iraq war now, even though it would be nice if we could.
Best wishes, XXY52891
伊拉克战争已经过去了。现在说制裁有什么用？当然如果能制裁美国无人机轰炸行为是件好事，
也应该把布莱尔之流抓起来，但我们现在无法回到过去阻止伊拉克战争，即使这样功德无量。
逝者已矣，祝福他们。
原文转自龙腾，作者：乌鸦喝水
链接ht tp: // www. ltaaa. com/wtfy/ 13843. ht ml 请无视空格
西方白皮们这是怎么了，难道是我处于另一个位面？
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
“”合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑“”
英镑真牛B。牛牛你造吗？
英镑真牛B。牛牛你造吗？
刚在龙腾看到这篇，哈哈，“洋洗地党”！我都怀疑自己走错门了！
哎，不得不承认，英美的网民素质，很高。国人加油
洋鬼子这么清醒？
有几个清醒的白皮需要灌1860年份泰晤士河水MH17被击落，中国或成事件最大输家。
freemailman 发表于 2014-7-25 15:02
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
西方定性左右和我们不一样 总体来说 西方的右倾指的是保守 左倾则是对立面
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
西方定性左右和我们不一样 总体来说 西方的右倾指的是保守 左倾则是对立面
右倾的民族主义小报，<<环球时报>>在牛牛那里竟然获得如此高的评价，可喜可贺~
freemailman 发表于 2014-7-25 15:02
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
这个称呼真不错，以后我们就说根据某国内右倾小报的言论神马神马的。
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
这个称呼真不错，以后我们就说根据某国内右倾小报的言论神马神马的。
另外BBC要忘了加上，中国这么冷静理智的立场，肯定是马航事件的最大输家啦。
人家明显有一部分客观理性，比那些上蹿下跳的囯人强不知多少倍！
总觉得网页打开的方式有问题。呵呵。
就如我们中国的网友越来越少依赖纸质媒体信息源一样，随着互联网的发展普及，西方也会出现越来越多的“异见人士”，BBCcnn们也会面对越来越多的质疑里面很多人姓ＬＥＥ啊。
老墙皮 发表于 2014-7-25 15:37
就如我们中国的网友越来越少依赖纸质媒体信息源一样，随着互联网的发展普及，西方也会出现越来越多 ...
人的一生吸收知识并独立作出判断的时间虽然不长，也就几十年时间。但架不住媒体撒谎的频率越来越高啊。
就如我们中国的网友越来越少依赖纸质媒体信息源一样，随着互联网的发展普及，西方也会出现越来越多 ...
人的一生吸收知识并独立作出判断的时间虽然不长，也就几十年时间。但架不住媒体撒谎的频率越来越高啊。
白皮猪连自己人都忽悠不了了啊
洋鬼子这么清醒
什么时候西方会在乎中国的发言了？
英国政府一定要感叹，洗脑效果大不如前了
vip51280 发表于 2014-7-25 15:03
“”合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑“”
英镑真牛B。牛牛你造吗？
原文是：￡235bn
翻译少了一个“亿”
“”合同价值大约4000亿美元约合2350英镑“”
英镑真牛B。牛牛你造吗？
原文是：￡235bn
翻译少了一个“亿”
今年好奇怪。。剧本都拿错了。。
这下够热闹了
英国理性的网民很多啊，。
表态有用吗:
中国表态支持西乌克兰，或成最大输家。
中国表态支持东乌克兰，或成最大输家。
中国表态支持西乌克兰，或成最大输家。
中国表态支持东乌克兰，或成最大输家。
一直在路上 发表于 2014-7-25 15:16
哎，不得不承认，英美的网民素质，很高。国人加油
不敢苟同，衰落的阴帝国，怕被边缘化，其媒体只能通过关注崛起的中国让人知道还有它的存在，几百年的殖民统治，也使其国民吸惯了全球弱势者的“血”，这种“全球视野”我们并不需要。
中华民族自有自己全球观，“海内存知己，天涯若比邻”、“犯强汉者虽远必诛”，不需要仰慕别人。
哎，不得不承认，英美的网民素质，很高。国人加油
不敢苟同，衰落的阴帝国，怕被边缘化，其媒体只能通过关注崛起的中国让人知道还有它的存在，几百年的殖民统治，也使其国民吸惯了全球弱势者的“血”，这种“全球视野”我们并不需要。
中华民族自有自己全球观，“海内存知己，天涯若比邻”、“犯强汉者虽远必诛”，不需要仰慕别人。
没有证据不能随便指责来自: Android客户端
漏斗子 发表于 2014-7-25 16:01
不敢苟同，衰落的阴帝国，怕被边缘化，其媒体只能通过关注崛起的中国让人知道还有它的存在，几百年的殖民 ...
那这么说吧，我觉得至少被翻译了的这些评论，显示出他们有不少比例的网民说话前是经过了思考的，而且并无确定立场，相对理性。仅此而已了。另外，喜欢你的文章，赞一个
不敢苟同，衰落的阴帝国，怕被边缘化，其媒体只能通过关注崛起的中国让人知道还有它的存在，几百年的殖民 ...
那这么说吧，我觉得至少被翻译了的这些评论，显示出他们有不少比例的网民说话前是经过了思考的，而且并无确定立场，相对理性。仅此而已了。另外，喜欢你的文章，赞一个
洋人什么时候这么理性了啊.....我开错网页了吧...
无心郁闷 发表于 2014-7-25 15:25
西方定性左右和我们不一样 总体来说 西方的右倾指的是保守 左倾则是对立面
我们左倾是激进右倾是妥协，没差
西方定性左右和我们不一样 总体来说 西方的右倾指的是保守 左倾则是对立面
我们左倾是激进右倾是妥协，没差
漏斗子 发表于 2014-7-25 16:01
不敢苟同，衰落的阴帝国，怕被边缘化，其媒体只能通过关注崛起的中国让人知道还有它的存在，几百年的殖民 ...
我们还是要客观看待西方人，据说在鸦片战争前英国议会在讨论的时候反对对中国发动战争的人也不少，议会只是以微弱多数通过了战争法案，当然他们中的一部分是怕远征中国失败，但是毕竟还是有理性的声音。我们不要把西方世界看成铁板一块。
不敢苟同，衰落的阴帝国，怕被边缘化，其媒体只能通过关注崛起的中国让人知道还有它的存在，几百年的殖民 ...
我们还是要客观看待西方人，据说在鸦片战争前英国议会在讨论的时候反对对中国发动战争的人也不少，议会只是以微弱多数通过了战争法案，当然他们中的一部分是怕远征中国失败，但是毕竟还是有理性的声音。我们不要把西方世界看成铁板一块。
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
该评论违反版规，已被版主删除，可能包括网友回复。详情请阅读版规。
看到这的时候笑了
该评论违反版规，已被版主删除，可能包括网友回复。详情请阅读版规。
看到这的时候笑了
freemailman 发表于 2014-7-25 15:02
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
我喜欢这样的定义@
《环球时报》被定性成“右倾小报”。。。
我喜欢这样的定义@
神经七月 发表于 2014-7-25 15:05
刚在龙腾看到这篇，哈哈，“洋洗地党”！我都怀疑自己走错门了！
我也怀疑自己的打开方式不对！
刚在龙腾看到这篇，哈哈，“洋洗地党”！我都怀疑自己走错门了！
我也怀疑自己的打开方式不对！
hzy2122 发表于 2014-7-25 15:48
什么时候西方会在乎中国的发言了？
现在不同了，西方要制裁俄罗斯，没有中国参与那效果大打折扣。中俄捆在一起这个块头可是让西方畏惧的。
什么时候西方会在乎中国的发言了？
现在不同了，西方要制裁俄罗斯，没有中国参与那效果大打折扣。中俄捆在一起这个块头可是让西方畏惧的。
戈西 发表于 2014-7-25 15:19
洋鬼子这么清醒？
谁说是洋鬼子？我们这有洗地党，他们那里就不能有扔垃圾的？哦，不对，他们也是洗地党！
洋鬼子这么清醒？
谁说是洋鬼子？我们这有洗地党，他们那里就不能有扔垃圾的？哦，不对，他们也是洗地党！
老墙皮 发表于 2014-7-25 15:37
就如我们中国的网友越来越少依赖纸质媒体信息源一样，随着互联网的发展普及，西方也会出现越来越多 ...
前几天还看到有个帖子说新媒体时代的信息什么的，看来不无道理啊！
就如我们中国的网友越来越少依赖纸质媒体信息源一样，随着互联网的发展普及，西方也会出现越来越多 ...
前几天还看到有个帖子说新媒体时代的信息什么的，看来不无道理啊！
（转）英国网友讨论“马航空难中国保持冷淡安静的姿态” ...
英国网友讨论中国运输机的研制 （还算理性）
【转】中国护航舰艇到访英国，英国网友评论
转自铁血一网友针对“美媒称中国三年之内量产先进航空发 ...
网友：地道如何保持通风？
中国海军访问英国朴茨茅斯港，英国网友和煎蛋中国网友的 ...
（请保持良好的讨论氛围）马岛战争的阿军换成同期的解放 ...
(讨论）10期《航空档案》观后感
【转】印度网友讨论 巴基斯坦欲购中国最新元级潜艇
越南网友对中国抓捕渔民和渔船的讨论(龙腾网翻译）
网友讨论中国红旗-9导弹赢土耳其30亿美元订单(三泰虎）
2012.1.11中国会干什么吗？ [集中讨论贴，保持版面，请 ...