超级军网网友讨论中国红旗-9导弹赢土耳其30亿美元订单(三泰虎）
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/29 10:00:44
三泰虎博客9月28日译文，土耳其网友在巴基斯坦军坛的土耳其版块发帖讨论：中国红旗-9导弹赢土耳其30亿美元订单。在经历了长久的等待和考察后，土耳其最终顶住多个西方国家的压力和警告，选择购买中国精密机械进出口公司（CPMIEC）参与投标的红旗-9型远程防空导弹，放弃了美国雷神公司和洛克希德•马丁公司联合提出的“爱国者”防空导弹系统、俄罗斯国防出口公司推销的S-300防空导弹以及意大利-法国联合研制的SAMP-T紫苑-30防空导弹系统。项目总价将高达30亿美元。
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
翻译地址：http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7389-1-1.html
外文标题： Turkey's acquisition of HQ-9 Air Defense System | Updates & Discussion
外文地址：http://www.defence.pk/forums/tur ... tes-discussion.html
以下是土耳其等国网友的评论：
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/turkeys- ... defense-system.html
Targon（土耳其）
What they offered was better then what our "so called" friends and allies were offering, logical result.
他们的投标比我们所谓盟友的投标更诱人，这是理所当然的结果。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Great choice - HQ-9 with TOT will most definitely benefit Turkey in many ways.
选得好。红旗9最能让土耳其在许多方面受益。
flamer84
I never thought things would pan out this way...A NATO country entrusts its main AA system to China...
从未想过会是这样的结果.....一个北约国家居然把主要防空系统委托给中国......
T-123456（土耳其）
I would like to see the US or NATO comment on this decision.
想听听美国和北约对（土耳其的）这一决定是如何置评的。
Neptune（土耳其）
Yeah that's right. It's breaking news in Turkey now, US&NATO is probly shocked about the decision. I'd like to hear Chinese members opinions over that, as well as detailed specs about the system, and the news from Chinese sources. That'd be great if I get them.
没错，这个在土耳其成为了爆炸性新闻，美国和北约可能对这一决定感到震惊。我想听听中国人的看法，该系统的具体参数以及来自中国的新闻。有的话，那就太棒了。
Pak47（巴基斯坦）
Congrats, having multiple sources for weapons is always a +
Also shows how much Chinese weapon systems have matured over the last decade.
祝贺，武器来源多样化总是好事。
此外，这也表明中国武器系统过去十年里已经趋于成熟了。
madmusti（土耳其）
FD-2000 Export HQ-9
7-24km against cruise missiles
7-50km against air-launched ground attack missiles
7-125km against aircrafts
7-25km against PGMs and tactical ballistic missiles
And we will get the Tech ,so we will have ability to make our own system in 15-30 Years.
红旗9导弹出口版FD-2000能够有效拦截：
24公里内的巡航导弹；
50公里内的空射导弹；
125公里内的飞机；
25公里内的精密制导武器和战术弹道飞弹。
而且，我们还将获得技术，15-30年后我们将拥有制造这一系统的能力。
Czar786（印度）
So turkey will be the second country after Pakistan to Acquired this system .
Bad A$$ looking HQ-9 --->
也就是说，土耳其成为了继巴基斯坦之后第二个获得这一系统的国家。
红旗9导弹够难看的
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yet better than anything India has !
总比印度的更好看！
Oublious（土耳其）
i hope one thing. this is not bad china production...
我有一个希望，即这不会是粗制滥造的“中国产”......
Ankit_Pujari（印度）
A good move here. Win-win for all parties involved.
The Chinese score an export order, showing their hardware good enough to make even a NATO country acquire them
The NATO will have access to a contemporary Chinese weapon system, helping them evaluate it & develop newer counter-measures, if need be.
干得好，对有关各方都是共赢的。
中国人获得了出口订单，表明其装备足够好，连北约国家也过来买。
北约将能接触到中国的现代武器系统，对其进行评估，必要时发展新的反制措施。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yes NATO also did a REVERSE ENGINEERING on S-300 (Greece has the S-300).
的确，北约也对S-300进行了逆向工程研究（希腊有S-300防空导弹）。
Neptune（土耳其）
I wish we would had chose either Aster-30 or S-300/400. . . . .
其实我希望我们选择的是欧洲的紫苑-30或俄罗斯的S-300/400
Neptune（土耳其）
What I worry about is, the version that the Chinese folks will give us won't be much effective as they are not stupit enough to give a system like HQ-9 with ToT to a country in Turkey's position...
我担心的是，中国人出口给我们的版本性能不够强大，因为他们不会傻到在转让技术的前提下把红旗9防空导弹出口给土耳其......
mafiya（巴基斯坦）
Then why turkey chose HQ-9? What was not present in american or european systems that turkey chose HQ-9?
为什么土耳其要选择红旗9？美国或欧洲的系统到底缺了什么，使得土耳其要去选择红旗9？
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China's offer is pretty generous - TOT and co-production.
What more can one ask for?
中国更大方，提供技术转让和联合生产。
你还能要求什么？
hacksquat（土耳其）
We already rely on US 100% for our airforce. Having an independant AA network was probably one of the main drivers. And I believe the capabilities of the system were secondary to the generous tech transfer we have been offered (along with 25% cheaper price tag).
我们的空军已经完全依赖美国，拥有独立的防空网络也许是主要推动力之一。我相信系统的能力是其次，最重要的是中国慷慨的技术转让，外加价格便宜25%
BATMAN （巴基斯坦）
What are the basis of your suspicions?
你怀疑的依据是什么？
Neptune（土耳其）
NATO, defence&political ties with US. And China won't give important parts of ToT that will be signed. Everybody knows why.
土耳其是北约成员国，以及同美国保持着防卫和政治关系。中国不会转让关键部件的技术的。大家都知道原因。
ELTurco（土耳其）
Well, i guess you simply dont know, ofcourse we will get ToT..
你有所不知，我们当然会获得技术转让。
Informant（巴基斯坦）
Oh this is going to peeve a few nations. Congrats!
哦，有些国家要气急败坏了。祝贺！
BigDaddyWatch（中国）
To tell you the truth i'm not comfortable with China sharing some of its most advanced SAM technology with a NATO country.
说实话，不喜欢中国把最先进的防空导弹技术拿去和一个北约国家分享。
Sinan（土耳其）
You have point but China sold his weaponry to a high-end user, Nato member country. This alone proves how much China improved in Defence Industries in the International arena.
你说得有道理，但是中国把武器卖给了北约成员国这么一个高端用户。仅此就能在国际舞台上证明中国国防工业进步有多大。
luciferdd（中国）
You guys think to much...the most advanced technology will never be sold
你小子想太多了.....最先进的技术肯定不会卖的。
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China most likely have better tech in store.
中国很可能有更好的技术储备了。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Well every country holds back a brick !
每个国家都会有所保留的！
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
If Greece can have S-300, why cant Turkey have HQ-9s ?
既然希腊可以买S-300，为什么土耳其就不能买红旗9？
Neptune（土耳其）
man...it'd be good but, i'm sure that the hellenic s-300s are not the same as Iran's and other nations s-300s. My 2cent brotha
哥们，可以的，但是我确信希腊的S-300系统同伊朗等其他国家的S-300系统不一样。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Iran doesn't have the S-300s. This HQ-9 deal may well include Pakistan as a guarantor, you'll get the top notch gear.
伊朗没有S-300系统，巴基斯坦可能在红旗9交易中充当保证人，你们将获得顶级装备。
Czar786（印度）
I Think Pakistan played a big role in bringing china and turkey together
我觉得巴基斯坦在撮合中国和土耳其中发挥了重要作用。
T-123456（土耳其）
This puts us in a very strange situation,lets see what happens next.
我们被推入到了困惑境地，看看接下来会发生什么。
Neptune（土耳其）
EU's Aster-30 and S-30 variant that Russia's gonna offer are more reliable and more advanced. We picked HQ-9 only because it was cheap. Probly, we had to go for the cheap one maybe because we had spented trillions for Syria...etc.
欧洲的紫苑-30和俄罗斯的S-300系统更可靠，更先进。我们是因为便宜才选择红旗9的。之所以不得不选择便宜的，也许是因为我们已经叙利亚花了几万亿.....
cabatli_53（土耳其）
I srongly believe that The missiles developed will be Chinese FD-2000 derivative fully integrated in Turkey's NATO network, Otherwise, Choosing a non-NATO system wthout integration of current existing radar network is just stupidy...
我坚信中国红旗9出口版FD-2000能够整合土耳其的北约防空网络。否则，选择一个不能整合已有雷达网络的非北约系统是愚蠢之举......
T-123456（土耳其）
I am all for cooperation with China but i dont know what to expect from this.
We know who the King of stupid decisions is,thats why im cautious.
我完全支持和中国合作，但不知道我们能从中收获何利益。
大家知道谁是做出这个愚蠢决定的关键，这就是我谨慎的原因。
razgriz19（巴基斯坦）
A billion cheaper could be the reason.
It was suppose to be a $4 Billion deal, but China is asking for $3 Billion
便宜十亿美元起了效果。
本来是40亿美元的交易，但中国只要价30亿美元。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
I really thought the news was fraud..Am i the only one who is not happy with the decision?
我认为这个消息是假的。难道我是唯一对这一决定感到不满的人？
T-123456（土耳其）
Undecided
悬而未决
SUPARCO（巴基斯坦）
Turkey has finally broken ice.
Congratulations.
土耳其终于破冰了。祝贺
Bilal（巴基斯坦）
Can someone confirm that HQ-9 also incorporates IIR seeker for dual guidance mode? very useful in case of engaging stealthy targets or in case of jamming if true.
谁能证实下，红旗9是否整合了红外成像导引头和双模制导？这些在对付隐形目标或受到干扰时非常有用。
neosinan（土耳其）
To the Best of My Knowledge Aster was the only system nobody in Turkey Realy consider to buy.Basicly They didnt offer much of ToT and Aster wasnt satified anybody (technically).Quite Frankly France prove themself not a such trustful military importer(eg: Falkland crsis and gulf war)
据我说知，紫苑是土耳其人不考虑购买的唯一系统。基本上说来，他们并不提供多少技术转让，紫苑在技术上也不令人满意。坦白说，法国证明其不是一个值得信赖的武器进口国（例子：福克兰岛危机和海湾战争）。
itaskol（中国）
turkey is greet. they already bought rocket and short rang ballistic missile from china.
and now they buy long rang AA missile...
our next step should be , sell fighter like J10B or J31 to turkey.
土耳其是贪婪的，他们已经从中国购买了火箭和短程弹道导弹，现在又购买远程防空导弹......
我们下一步应该是把歼10B或J31战机卖给土耳其。
basibos（土耳其）
thanks but we are working on our own fifth generation fighter
谢谢，不过我们已经在自主研发第五代战机。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
To my Turkish & Chinese Brethren - Solve your disagreements because this could be that start of a very beneficial partnership for the both of you !
我的土耳其和中国兄弟们，解决你们的分歧，这将是你们互惠互利合作关系的开始。
faithfulguy（台湾）
China will only sell water down version to Turkey. And Turkey might transfer the first shipment to the US for study and cancel the rest of the deal.
中国将会把缩水版本的系统卖给土耳其。后者也许会把第一批导弹转交给美国研究，然后取消剩余的交易。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I trust the Turks not to do that & I trust the Chinese involved in the deal to have placed that in their calculus when they decided to sell it to Turkey !
我相信土耳其不会那样做的，我同样相信中国人在决定把导弹卖给土耳其时肯定将这种情况考虑进去了！
faithfulguy（台湾）
Since Turkey is a nato member, it would certain pass important info about this missile system to US. China is endangering its own air defense by selling this system to Turkey. I would not be surprise that China withdraw the offer and they are only in it to show its missile is competitive, not to actually sell the missile and its technology.
土耳其是北约成员国，肯定会把导弹系统的重要信息交给美国。中国此举是在冒危及本国防空的风险。如果中国撤盘，我不会吃惊，毕竟他们此举只是为了显示其导弹具有竞争力，而不是真的想卖导弹和相关技术。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I think those consideration would've been debated by China ad nauseam before tabling the offer !
我认为中国在投标前肯定充分论证了这些考量。
faithfulguy（台湾）
And since they move forward, lets watch their next steps. I still would bet that they would not transfer the tech.
On the side note, I wonder why India didn't offer Brahmos since its the best missile out there. They surely can find a way to make Brahmos an anti air missile. Just like how they converted Kavari engine to a train and boat engine.
还是看后续进展吧。我仍然坚信他们不会转让技术。
另外，印度的布拉莫斯导弹性能非常棒，为什么印度不拿去投标。他们肯定能找到方法将布拉莫斯导弹打造成防空利器，就像他们把Kavari引擎改造成火车和轮船的发动机。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Too bad that Russians not offered S400,but I understand them,Americans would immediately put a paw on best defence system in world.
So HQ9 is good alternetive way for Turkey if S400 is not in the case!But on the other hand,why Turks dont purchase American products?If I were a Turk i will always purchase NATO products(US especially)becouse US is probably most important Turkish ally,so HQ9 even S400 not that important like US allience.
@beast Yes Turkey is crucial becouse they are most powerful country in the Muslim world.
非常糟糕的是俄罗斯并未拿S400导弹去投标，不过可以理解，否则美国人将会立即获得世界上最先进的防空系统。
对于土耳其来说，没有S400的情况下，红旗9导弹是一个不错的替代选择。可是为什么土耳其不购买美国的防空导弹？如果我是土耳其，我会选择购买北约的产品（特别是美国的），因为美国可能是土耳其最重要的盟友，红旗9导弹甚或S400导弹都没有美国的友谊来得重要。
土耳其是至关重要的，它是穆斯林世界最强大的国家。
Beast（中国）
Oh yes, so crucial then they shall even allow Turkey entry into EU to please Turkey since she is so important. Dont be naive. All US needs is Saudi to gain foothole in Middel East and sunni muslim.
They rather accept a weak country like Greece into EU rather than Turkey. An another factor US patriot will never be accepted in Turkey becos Greece (foe of Turkey) owns them too.
既然如此重要，他们就该讨好土耳其，让其加入欧盟。别幼稚了，美国只需要沙特来取得进入中东和接触逊尼派穆斯林的立足点。
他们宁愿接受希腊这样的弱国进入欧盟，也不愿意接受土耳其。土耳其不会接受美国爱国者导弹的另一个原因是（土耳其的仇敌）希腊也拥有爱国者导弹。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Oh mate you dont know nothing.EU dont want Turkey in their Union becouse Turkey have 75 mln people,they are so big for European Union,and core states (France,Germany and GB) do not welcome Turkey there.
And please,we all know that China is powerful country,you dont need to put that in every sentance("We all know where future lies"etc etc.).You are economic superpower but you still lag behind Russia and US in military and political power.
Not to mention that US have two times bigger economy then China.I wish you all the best,but hardworking is part of Chinese mentality so go on and maybe you will be best on every aspects in future.
哦，伙计，你什么也不知道。欧盟之所以不接纳土耳其，是因为土耳其人口有7500万之众，（法国、德国和英国等）核心国家并不欢迎土耳其。
拜托，我们都知道中国是强国，你没必要每一句都强调这点。你们是经济超级大国，但是你们军事和政治实力仍然落后于俄罗斯和美国。
更别提美国的经济比中国大两倍。祝你们一切顺利，中国人天性勤劳刻苦，继续加油，也许你们未来能做到各方面最棒。
T-123456（土耳其）
Correction,
Germany and France dont want Turkey in the EU.
GB would be glad if Turkey was in,they would break the hegemony of Germany and France in the EU.
纠正：不希望土耳其加入欧盟的是德国和法国。英国乐见土耳其加入，因为这么一来可以打破德国和法国在欧盟的霸权。
Beast（中国）
Rather its you who cant accept Turkey is being prejudiced in the western world. Both France and Germany also has a huge population who they are acceptable while Turkish is not welcome in EU? Of Cos the EU needs to find an excuse to reject Turkey. You expect EU to tell the world bluntly they dont like muslim or non western countries not to join them?
For your outdated info. China is now more than half the economy size of US. US is still leader in political and military but the gap is getting smaller and smaller everyday.
土耳其在西方世界受偏见，接受不来这一看法的是你。法国和德国人口也很多，不也进入欧盟。要拒绝土耳其，欧盟当然需要找一个理由了。难道你希望欧盟直言不讳地对世界说他们不喜欢穆斯林或非西方国家不能加入？
你信息过时啦，中国经济规模已经超过美国的一半。美国仍然是政治和军事的领袖，但中国和美国的差距在一天天缩小。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Five million Turks live in Germany,alot of Pakistans live in UK,alot of Arabs live in France....Europa has long time ago rejected prejudice.
Turkey will become EU member when Europa needs a new strong economy to stabilze EU.
500万土耳其人居住在德国，许多巴基斯坦人居住在英国，大量阿拉伯人居住在法国.....欧洲早就拒绝偏见了。
一旦欧盟需要一个强大的新经济体来稳定欧盟，土耳其就会成为欧盟成员国。
T-123456（土耳其）
Turkey will never become a EU member.
土耳其永远不会欧盟成员国。
HariPrasad
This is really funny. China recently buy S 400 from Russia Chinese HQ 9 is a crap. Now Turkey is buying from China.
真是搞笑。中国最近从俄罗斯购买了S-400防空系统。中国红旗9就是垃圾。土耳其居然会向中国购买。
wanglaokan（中国）
Are you try to say Turkey is even stuipid than Indians?
你是说土耳其人比印度人更笨？
atatwolf（土耳其）
We shouldn't have chosen cheap Chinese junk.
我们不应该选择廉价的中国垃圾货。
Targon（土耳其）
Well, that would basically force us to completely rely on Russians and Chinese.
好吧，我们将被迫完全依赖俄罗斯人和中国人。
itaskol（中国）
It is a bad news for syrian.
对叙利亚来说是坏消息。
atatwolf（土耳其）
Turkey joining EU would mean Turkey giving up part of its soveignity. Soveignity is holy for Turks. Turks are one of the few in the history who never lost it, we will never give it up and that is why we will never join EU. We are not Greece who gives up soveignity for free-ride. That whole EU-Turkey talks are just politics. Turkish people would never accept a French, German, Brit telling them what to do. Not only for integrity but also historical reasons.
土耳其加入欧盟意味着土耳其将放弃部分主权。对于土耳其人来说，主权是神圣的。土耳其人是历史上少有的几个从未丧失主权的国家。我们决不会放弃，这就是我们永远不会加入欧盟的原因。我们不是愿意放弃主权而搭便车的希腊。欧盟和土耳其之间的谈判纯粹就是政治演出。土耳其人永远不会接受法国、德国和英国对其发号施令，这不仅出于主权完整，而且是出于历史原因。
ajkhan7（巴基斯坦）
In my humble opinion Turkey shd go for Chinese or Russian Equipment with tech transfer agreements... American and Europeans are most un-reliable people and coutries.... they might have best quality butwill be useless without later spares and equipment or upgrades.
The history speaks for itself what an Ally USA and Europe has been to most. They have proven to be worst friends for any ally.
Last but not the least Turkey has the technology, and people ... self reliance is the key. By buying others equipment u r just funding R&D of the seller.
依愚人之见，土耳其就该买附带技术转让的中国或俄罗斯装备。欧美最不可靠，他们也许有质量最好的武器，但是如果缺少零件或无法升级，那也将一无用处。
历史已经证明美国和欧洲是最糟糕的盟友。
最后但同样重要的是，土耳其有技术，有人力，自主才是关键。购买其他国家的装备是在资助其研发。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
@Beast I dont know that HQ9 is better than S300,but it is BS to insist that HQ9 is better than S400.Ask any military expert here.
Dont be ignorant and arogant.Even western military analist say that S400 is probably best Air Defence system in the world.!
And if Russia offer S400 to any world country except US,every country will accept them wide eyed.
我不知道红旗9导弹比S300导弹更好。但是，如果你坚持说红旗9导弹比S400导弹更好，那就是在扯谈。去问任何军事专家便知。
别再无知和傲慢了。就连西方军事分析家也会说S400可能是世界上最好的防空系统！
如果俄罗斯把S400卖给除了美国之外的任何国家，大家肯定会睁大眼睛接受的。
madmusti（土耳其）
We Get the Tech that we need for an Start for an own Air Defense System !
我们是想获得技术，并以此作为国产防空系统的起点！
Oublious（土耳其）
In the end the Turkish missile wil supperier then the Chinees i think. It wil be redesigned with Turkish configurations.
我认为土耳其的导弹技术最终将超过中国，土耳其将会对其重新进行设计。
S10（中国）
Superior to HQ-9? That will have to depend on the version. It's not like China is going to stop upgrading the missile system once it is sold to Turkey. Also, the export version of HQ-9 being marketed to Turkey is certainly not the latest variants of HQ-9.
比红旗9导弹更好？这要看你比较的是哪个版本。中国把导弹卖给土耳其，并非就会停止升级这种导弹系统。此外，出口版的红旗9导弹肯定不是红旗9导弹的最新版本。
Sinan（土耳其）
And even if we surpass HQ-9, you still got HQ-19. I will try to explain in a simple way. You sell us missile and we are going to develop a missile that will be superior to one you sold to us. (most likely and in the future)
即便超过了红旗9导弹，你们仍然还有红旗-19导弹。这么简单解释吧：你们把导弹卖给我们，我们打算发展一种导弹，这种导弹的性能优于你们卖给我们的导弹（未来很可能会这样）。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
Now, with thew help of China we can fully produce this missile at home and it has a good performance..Thats why Turkey ignored the pressure coming from Nato and chose Chinese system..
And for the whiners, you whine about Turkey being US puppet, and when Turkey chooses Chinese system over Us system, you started to whine Turkey would share the tech with Us like little girls...Go get some fresh air
在中国帮助之下，我们将有能力在国内完全自主生产这种导弹，况且这种导弹性能不错。这就是土耳其不顾来自北约的压力并选择中国导弹系统的原因。
那些哀诉者抱怨土耳其是美国傀儡。一旦土耳其选择中国系统，放弃美国系统，你们就开始像女人一样发牢骚说土耳其将会把这个技术和美国分享...一边凉快去吧。
hacksquat（土耳其）
Our Chinese friends should be more confident in themselves. FD-2000 is already an older tech for China and this is exactly why they are willing to share it's tech with us. I must say I am also surprised by some of Chinese member's remarks in this thread. Some even went as far ahead as calling us radical terrorists for gods sake.
So many stupid ideas were thrown around yesterday. Take for example Turkey getting the first shipment, transfer it to US and cancel the rest of the deal. Does anybody really believe this is a possibility? How in the world would we be able to buy weapons again from anyone but US in the future. And all this talk we wouldn't be allowed this, we woldn't be allowed that ...etc is really condescending. We are an independant country for gods sake. It is not like NATO has the control of our defences. I am sure all of these concerns will be taken care of. I really find it hard to believe the army will spend 3 billion dollars on something that will not be connected to our infrastructure and rust in some bunker somewhere.
中国朋友应该更加自信了。FD-2000导弹已经是中国的老技术，这正是他们愿意分享技术的原因。务必要说的是，我对本贴某些中国人的言论感到吃惊。有些人甚至说我们是激进的恐怖分子。
昨天出现了许多愚蠢想法。比如，土耳其将把第一批导弹转交给美国，然后取消剩余的交易。真的有人相信这是可能的吗？这样的话，除了向美国购买外，我们以后还能向谁购买武器。
拜托，我们是独立国家，绝非是北约控制了我们的国防。我仍难以相信军队会花30亿美元去购买这样的装备，即无法连上现有网络且会在某个地堡生锈的导弹。
mahatir
Good decision by Turkey , it went for TOT transfer , you can not keep on buying expensive toys from west without any TOT .
土耳其做出了很好的决定，它选择技术转让，你不能老是向西方购买昂贵的玩具。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
The Chinese looney who made up that BS story should have spent some time to research that Russia never offered S-400 for this tender. In that case he would not fail so miserably
中国疯子应该花点时间研究下，俄罗斯在投标中并未提供S-400导弹.
Beast（中国）
Luckily, S-400 never offer. I can be sure. It will still be rejected by Turkish. Face saving for Russian
好在没有提供S-400导弹，否则也会被土耳其拒绝的。俄罗斯保全了面子。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
Nope, not luckily. Turkey's invitation was rejected. Russia is only accepting direct offers to buy S-400 (no tenders) and with delivery date after 2015. China currently is first in line.
不，土耳其的邀请被拒绝了。俄罗斯只接受直接提供S-400导弹（不是投标），交货日期是2015年后。
Rain（巴基斯坦）
Turkey Look East Policy is on work.
土耳其向东看的政策起作用了。 三泰虎博客9月28日译文，土耳其网友在巴基斯坦军坛的土耳其版块发帖讨论：中国红旗-9导弹赢土耳其30亿美元订单。在经历了长久的等待和考察后，土耳其最终顶住多个西方国家的压力和警告，选择购买中国精密机械进出口公司（CPMIEC）参与投标的红旗-9型远程防空导弹，放弃了美国雷神公司和洛克希德•马丁公司联合提出的“爱国者”防空导弹系统、俄罗斯国防出口公司推销的S-300防空导弹以及意大利-法国联合研制的SAMP-T紫苑-30防空导弹系统。项目总价将高达30亿美元。
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
翻译地址：http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7389-1-1.html
外文标题： Turkey's acquisition of HQ-9 Air Defense System | Updates & Discussion
外文地址：http://www.defence.pk/forums/tur ... tes-discussion.html
以下是土耳其等国网友的评论：
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/turkeys- ... defense-system.html
Targon（土耳其）
What they offered was better then what our "so called" friends and allies were offering, logical result.
他们的投标比我们所谓盟友的投标更诱人，这是理所当然的结果。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Great choice - HQ-9 with TOT will most definitely benefit Turkey in many ways.
选得好。红旗9最能让土耳其在许多方面受益。
flamer84
I never thought things would pan out this way...A NATO country entrusts its main AA system to China...
从未想过会是这样的结果.....一个北约国家居然把主要防空系统委托给中国......
T-123456（土耳其）
I would like to see the US or NATO comment on this decision.
想听听美国和北约对（土耳其的）这一决定是如何置评的。
Neptune（土耳其）
Yeah that's right. It's breaking news in Turkey now, US&NATO is probly shocked about the decision. I'd like to hear Chinese members opinions over that, as well as detailed specs about the system, and the news from Chinese sources. That'd be great if I get them.
没错，这个在土耳其成为了爆炸性新闻，美国和北约可能对这一决定感到震惊。我想听听中国人的看法，该系统的具体参数以及来自中国的新闻。有的话，那就太棒了。
Pak47（巴基斯坦）
Congrats, having multiple sources for weapons is always a +
Also shows how much Chinese weapon systems have matured over the last decade.
祝贺，武器来源多样化总是好事。
此外，这也表明中国武器系统过去十年里已经趋于成熟了。
madmusti（土耳其）
FD-2000 Export HQ-9
7-24km against cruise missiles
7-50km against air-launched ground attack missiles
7-125km against aircrafts
7-25km against PGMs and tactical ballistic missiles
And we will get the Tech ,so we will have ability to make our own system in 15-30 Years.
红旗9导弹出口版FD-2000能够有效拦截：
24公里内的巡航导弹；
50公里内的空射导弹；
125公里内的飞机；
25公里内的精密制导武器和战术弹道飞弹。
而且，我们还将获得技术，15-30年后我们将拥有制造这一系统的能力。
Czar786（印度）
So turkey will be the second country after Pakistan to Acquired this system .
Bad A$$ looking HQ-9 --->
也就是说，土耳其成为了继巴基斯坦之后第二个获得这一系统的国家。
红旗9导弹够难看的
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yet better than anything India has !
总比印度的更好看！
Oublious（土耳其）
i hope one thing. this is not bad china production...
我有一个希望，即这不会是粗制滥造的“中国产”......
Ankit_Pujari（印度）
A good move here. Win-win for all parties involved.
The Chinese score an export order, showing their hardware good enough to make even a NATO country acquire them
The NATO will have access to a contemporary Chinese weapon system, helping them evaluate it & develop newer counter-measures, if need be.
干得好，对有关各方都是共赢的。
中国人获得了出口订单，表明其装备足够好，连北约国家也过来买。
北约将能接触到中国的现代武器系统，对其进行评估，必要时发展新的反制措施。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yes NATO also did a REVERSE ENGINEERING on S-300 (Greece has the S-300).
的确，北约也对S-300进行了逆向工程研究（希腊有S-300防空导弹）。
Neptune（土耳其）
I wish we would had chose either Aster-30 or S-300/400. . . . .
其实我希望我们选择的是欧洲的紫苑-30或俄罗斯的S-300/400
Neptune（土耳其）
What I worry about is, the version that the Chinese folks will give us won't be much effective as they are not stupit enough to give a system like HQ-9 with ToT to a country in Turkey's position...
我担心的是，中国人出口给我们的版本性能不够强大，因为他们不会傻到在转让技术的前提下把红旗9防空导弹出口给土耳其......
mafiya（巴基斯坦）
Then why turkey chose HQ-9? What was not present in american or european systems that turkey chose HQ-9?
为什么土耳其要选择红旗9？美国或欧洲的系统到底缺了什么，使得土耳其要去选择红旗9？
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China's offer is pretty generous - TOT and co-production.
What more can one ask for?
中国更大方，提供技术转让和联合生产。
你还能要求什么？
hacksquat（土耳其）
We already rely on US 100% for our airforce. Having an independant AA network was probably one of the main drivers. And I believe the capabilities of the system were secondary to the generous tech transfer we have been offered (along with 25% cheaper price tag).
我们的空军已经完全依赖美国，拥有独立的防空网络也许是主要推动力之一。我相信系统的能力是其次，最重要的是中国慷慨的技术转让，外加价格便宜25%
BATMAN （巴基斯坦）
What are the basis of your suspicions?
你怀疑的依据是什么？
Neptune（土耳其）
NATO, defence&political ties with US. And China won't give important parts of ToT that will be signed. Everybody knows why.
土耳其是北约成员国，以及同美国保持着防卫和政治关系。中国不会转让关键部件的技术的。大家都知道原因。
ELTurco（土耳其）
Well, i guess you simply dont know, ofcourse we will get ToT..
你有所不知，我们当然会获得技术转让。
Informant（巴基斯坦）
Oh this is going to peeve a few nations. Congrats!
哦，有些国家要气急败坏了。祝贺！
BigDaddyWatch（中国）
To tell you the truth i'm not comfortable with China sharing some of its most advanced SAM technology with a NATO country.
说实话，不喜欢中国把最先进的防空导弹技术拿去和一个北约国家分享。
Sinan（土耳其）
You have point but China sold his weaponry to a high-end user, Nato member country. This alone proves how much China improved in Defence Industries in the International arena.
你说得有道理，但是中国把武器卖给了北约成员国这么一个高端用户。仅此就能在国际舞台上证明中国国防工业进步有多大。
luciferdd（中国）
You guys think to much...the most advanced technology will never be sold
你小子想太多了.....最先进的技术肯定不会卖的。
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China most likely have better tech in store.
中国很可能有更好的技术储备了。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Well every country holds back a brick !
每个国家都会有所保留的！
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
If Greece can have S-300, why cant Turkey have HQ-9s ?
既然希腊可以买S-300，为什么土耳其就不能买红旗9？
Neptune（土耳其）
man...it'd be good but, i'm sure that the hellenic s-300s are not the same as Iran's and other nations s-300s. My 2cent brotha
哥们，可以的，但是我确信希腊的S-300系统同伊朗等其他国家的S-300系统不一样。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Iran doesn't have the S-300s. This HQ-9 deal may well include Pakistan as a guarantor, you'll get the top notch gear.
伊朗没有S-300系统，巴基斯坦可能在红旗9交易中充当保证人，你们将获得顶级装备。
Czar786（印度）
I Think Pakistan played a big role in bringing china and turkey together
我觉得巴基斯坦在撮合中国和土耳其中发挥了重要作用。
T-123456（土耳其）
This puts us in a very strange situation,lets see what happens next.
我们被推入到了困惑境地，看看接下来会发生什么。
Neptune（土耳其）
EU's Aster-30 and S-30 variant that Russia's gonna offer are more reliable and more advanced. We picked HQ-9 only because it was cheap. Probly, we had to go for the cheap one maybe because we had spented trillions for Syria...etc.
欧洲的紫苑-30和俄罗斯的S-300系统更可靠，更先进。我们是因为便宜才选择红旗9的。之所以不得不选择便宜的，也许是因为我们已经叙利亚花了几万亿.....
cabatli_53（土耳其）
I srongly believe that The missiles developed will be Chinese FD-2000 derivative fully integrated in Turkey's NATO network, Otherwise, Choosing a non-NATO system wthout integration of current existing radar network is just stupidy...
我坚信中国红旗9出口版FD-2000能够整合土耳其的北约防空网络。否则，选择一个不能整合已有雷达网络的非北约系统是愚蠢之举......
T-123456（土耳其）
I am all for cooperation with China but i dont know what to expect from this.
We know who the King of stupid decisions is,thats why im cautious.
我完全支持和中国合作，但不知道我们能从中收获何利益。
大家知道谁是做出这个愚蠢决定的关键，这就是我谨慎的原因。
razgriz19（巴基斯坦）
A billion cheaper could be the reason.
It was suppose to be a $4 Billion deal, but China is asking for $3 Billion
便宜十亿美元起了效果。
本来是40亿美元的交易，但中国只要价30亿美元。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
I really thought the news was fraud..Am i the only one who is not happy with the decision?
我认为这个消息是假的。难道我是唯一对这一决定感到不满的人？
T-123456（土耳其）
Undecided
悬而未决
SUPARCO（巴基斯坦）
Turkey has finally broken ice.
Congratulations.
土耳其终于破冰了。祝贺
Bilal（巴基斯坦）
Can someone confirm that HQ-9 also incorporates IIR seeker for dual guidance mode? very useful in case of engaging stealthy targets or in case of jamming if true.
谁能证实下，红旗9是否整合了红外成像导引头和双模制导？这些在对付隐形目标或受到干扰时非常有用。
neosinan（土耳其）
To the Best of My Knowledge Aster was the only system nobody in Turkey Realy consider to buy.Basicly They didnt offer much of ToT and Aster wasnt satified anybody (technically).Quite Frankly France prove themself not a such trustful military importer(eg: Falkland crsis and gulf war)
据我说知，紫苑是土耳其人不考虑购买的唯一系统。基本上说来，他们并不提供多少技术转让，紫苑在技术上也不令人满意。坦白说，法国证明其不是一个值得信赖的武器进口国（例子：福克兰岛危机和海湾战争）。
itaskol（中国）
turkey is greet. they already bought rocket and short rang ballistic missile from china.
and now they buy long rang AA missile...
our next step should be , sell fighter like J10B or J31 to turkey.
土耳其是贪婪的，他们已经从中国购买了火箭和短程弹道导弹，现在又购买远程防空导弹......
我们下一步应该是把歼10B或J31战机卖给土耳其。
basibos（土耳其）
thanks but we are working on our own fifth generation fighter
谢谢，不过我们已经在自主研发第五代战机。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
To my Turkish & Chinese Brethren - Solve your disagreements because this could be that start of a very beneficial partnership for the both of you !
我的土耳其和中国兄弟们，解决你们的分歧，这将是你们互惠互利合作关系的开始。
faithfulguy（台湾）
China will only sell water down version to Turkey. And Turkey might transfer the first shipment to the US for study and cancel the rest of the deal.
中国将会把缩水版本的系统卖给土耳其。后者也许会把第一批导弹转交给美国研究，然后取消剩余的交易。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I trust the Turks not to do that & I trust the Chinese involved in the deal to have placed that in their calculus when they decided to sell it to Turkey !
我相信土耳其不会那样做的，我同样相信中国人在决定把导弹卖给土耳其时肯定将这种情况考虑进去了！
faithfulguy（台湾）
Since Turkey is a nato member, it would certain pass important info about this missile system to US. China is endangering its own air defense by selling this system to Turkey. I would not be surprise that China withdraw the offer and they are only in it to show its missile is competitive, not to actually sell the missile and its technology.
土耳其是北约成员国，肯定会把导弹系统的重要信息交给美国。中国此举是在冒危及本国防空的风险。如果中国撤盘，我不会吃惊，毕竟他们此举只是为了显示其导弹具有竞争力，而不是真的想卖导弹和相关技术。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I think those consideration would've been debated by China ad nauseam before tabling the offer !
我认为中国在投标前肯定充分论证了这些考量。
faithfulguy（台湾）
And since they move forward, lets watch their next steps. I still would bet that they would not transfer the tech.
On the side note, I wonder why India didn't offer Brahmos since its the best missile out there. They surely can find a way to make Brahmos an anti air missile. Just like how they converted Kavari engine to a train and boat engine.
还是看后续进展吧。我仍然坚信他们不会转让技术。
另外，印度的布拉莫斯导弹性能非常棒，为什么印度不拿去投标。他们肯定能找到方法将布拉莫斯导弹打造成防空利器，就像他们把Kavari引擎改造成火车和轮船的发动机。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Too bad that Russians not offered S400,but I understand them,Americans would immediately put a paw on best defence system in world.
So HQ9 is good alternetive way for Turkey if S400 is not in the case!But on the other hand,why Turks dont purchase American products?If I were a Turk i will always purchase NATO products(US especially)becouse US is probably most important Turkish ally,so HQ9 even S400 not that important like US allience.
@beast Yes Turkey is crucial becouse they are most powerful country in the Muslim world.
非常糟糕的是俄罗斯并未拿S400导弹去投标，不过可以理解，否则美国人将会立即获得世界上最先进的防空系统。
对于土耳其来说，没有S400的情况下，红旗9导弹是一个不错的替代选择。可是为什么土耳其不购买美国的防空导弹？如果我是土耳其，我会选择购买北约的产品（特别是美国的），因为美国可能是土耳其最重要的盟友，红旗9导弹甚或S400导弹都没有美国的友谊来得重要。
土耳其是至关重要的，它是穆斯林世界最强大的国家。
Beast（中国）
Oh yes, so crucial then they shall even allow Turkey entry into EU to please Turkey since she is so important. Dont be naive. All US needs is Saudi to gain foothole in Middel East and sunni muslim.
They rather accept a weak country like Greece into EU rather than Turkey. An another factor US patriot will never be accepted in Turkey becos Greece (foe of Turkey) owns them too.
既然如此重要，他们就该讨好土耳其，让其加入欧盟。别幼稚了，美国只需要沙特来取得进入中东和接触逊尼派穆斯林的立足点。
他们宁愿接受希腊这样的弱国进入欧盟，也不愿意接受土耳其。土耳其不会接受美国爱国者导弹的另一个原因是（土耳其的仇敌）希腊也拥有爱国者导弹。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Oh mate you dont know nothing.EU dont want Turkey in their Union becouse Turkey have 75 mln people,they are so big for European Union,and core states (France,Germany and GB) do not welcome Turkey there.
And please,we all know that China is powerful country,you dont need to put that in every sentance("We all know where future lies"etc etc.).You are economic superpower but you still lag behind Russia and US in military and political power.
Not to mention that US have two times bigger economy then China.I wish you all the best,but hardworking is part of Chinese mentality so go on and maybe you will be best on every aspects in future.
哦，伙计，你什么也不知道。欧盟之所以不接纳土耳其，是因为土耳其人口有7500万之众，（法国、德国和英国等）核心国家并不欢迎土耳其。
拜托，我们都知道中国是强国，你没必要每一句都强调这点。你们是经济超级大国，但是你们军事和政治实力仍然落后于俄罗斯和美国。
更别提美国的经济比中国大两倍。祝你们一切顺利，中国人天性勤劳刻苦，继续加油，也许你们未来能做到各方面最棒。
T-123456（土耳其）
Correction,
Germany and France dont want Turkey in the EU.
GB would be glad if Turkey was in,they would break the hegemony of Germany and France in the EU.
纠正：不希望土耳其加入欧盟的是德国和法国。英国乐见土耳其加入，因为这么一来可以打破德国和法国在欧盟的霸权。
Beast（中国）
Rather its you who cant accept Turkey is being prejudiced in the western world. Both France and Germany also has a huge population who they are acceptable while Turkish is not welcome in EU? Of Cos the EU needs to find an excuse to reject Turkey. You expect EU to tell the world bluntly they dont like muslim or non western countries not to join them?
For your outdated info. China is now more than half the economy size of US. US is still leader in political and military but the gap is getting smaller and smaller everyday.
土耳其在西方世界受偏见，接受不来这一看法的是你。法国和德国人口也很多，不也进入欧盟。要拒绝土耳其，欧盟当然需要找一个理由了。难道你希望欧盟直言不讳地对世界说他们不喜欢穆斯林或非西方国家不能加入？
你信息过时啦，中国经济规模已经超过美国的一半。美国仍然是政治和军事的领袖，但中国和美国的差距在一天天缩小。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Five million Turks live in Germany,alot of Pakistans live in UK,alot of Arabs live in France....Europa has long time ago rejected prejudice.
Turkey will become EU member when Europa needs a new strong economy to stabilze EU.
500万土耳其人居住在德国，许多巴基斯坦人居住在英国，大量阿拉伯人居住在法国.....欧洲早就拒绝偏见了。
一旦欧盟需要一个强大的新经济体来稳定欧盟，土耳其就会成为欧盟成员国。
T-123456（土耳其）
Turkey will never become a EU member.
土耳其永远不会欧盟成员国。
HariPrasad
This is really funny. China recently buy S 400 from Russia Chinese HQ 9 is a crap. Now Turkey is buying from China.
真是搞笑。中国最近从俄罗斯购买了S-400防空系统。中国红旗9就是垃圾。土耳其居然会向中国购买。
wanglaokan（中国）
Are you try to say Turkey is even stuipid than Indians?
你是说土耳其人比印度人更笨？
atatwolf（土耳其）
We shouldn't have chosen cheap Chinese junk.
我们不应该选择廉价的中国垃圾货。
Targon（土耳其）
Well, that would basically force us to completely rely on Russians and Chinese.
好吧，我们将被迫完全依赖俄罗斯人和中国人。
itaskol（中国）
It is a bad news for syrian.
对叙利亚来说是坏消息。
atatwolf（土耳其）
Turkey joining EU would mean Turkey giving up part of its soveignity. Soveignity is holy for Turks. Turks are one of the few in the history who never lost it, we will never give it up and that is why we will never join EU. We are not Greece who gives up soveignity for free-ride. That whole EU-Turkey talks are just politics. Turkish people would never accept a French, German, Brit telling them what to do. Not only for integrity but also historical reasons.
土耳其加入欧盟意味着土耳其将放弃部分主权。对于土耳其人来说，主权是神圣的。土耳其人是历史上少有的几个从未丧失主权的国家。我们决不会放弃，这就是我们永远不会加入欧盟的原因。我们不是愿意放弃主权而搭便车的希腊。欧盟和土耳其之间的谈判纯粹就是政治演出。土耳其人永远不会接受法国、德国和英国对其发号施令，这不仅出于主权完整，而且是出于历史原因。
ajkhan7（巴基斯坦）
In my humble opinion Turkey shd go for Chinese or Russian Equipment with tech transfer agreements... American and Europeans are most un-reliable people and coutries.... they might have best quality butwill be useless without later spares and equipment or upgrades.
The history speaks for itself what an Ally USA and Europe has been to most. They have proven to be worst friends for any ally.
Last but not the least Turkey has the technology, and people ... self reliance is the key. By buying others equipment u r just funding R&D of the seller.
依愚人之见，土耳其就该买附带技术转让的中国或俄罗斯装备。欧美最不可靠，他们也许有质量最好的武器，但是如果缺少零件或无法升级，那也将一无用处。
历史已经证明美国和欧洲是最糟糕的盟友。
最后但同样重要的是，土耳其有技术，有人力，自主才是关键。购买其他国家的装备是在资助其研发。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
@Beast I dont know that HQ9 is better than S300,but it is BS to insist that HQ9 is better than S400.Ask any military expert here.
Dont be ignorant and arogant.Even western military analist say that S400 is probably best Air Defence system in the world.!
And if Russia offer S400 to any world country except US,every country will accept them wide eyed.
我不知道红旗9导弹比S300导弹更好。但是，如果你坚持说红旗9导弹比S400导弹更好，那就是在扯谈。去问任何军事专家便知。
别再无知和傲慢了。就连西方军事分析家也会说S400可能是世界上最好的防空系统！
如果俄罗斯把S400卖给除了美国之外的任何国家，大家肯定会睁大眼睛接受的。
madmusti（土耳其）
We Get the Tech that we need for an Start for an own Air Defense System !
我们是想获得技术，并以此作为国产防空系统的起点！
Oublious（土耳其）
In the end the Turkish missile wil supperier then the Chinees i think. It wil be redesigned with Turkish configurations.
我认为土耳其的导弹技术最终将超过中国，土耳其将会对其重新进行设计。
S10（中国）
Superior to HQ-9? That will have to depend on the version. It's not like China is going to stop upgrading the missile system once it is sold to Turkey. Also, the export version of HQ-9 being marketed to Turkey is certainly not the latest variants of HQ-9.
比红旗9导弹更好？这要看你比较的是哪个版本。中国把导弹卖给土耳其，并非就会停止升级这种导弹系统。此外，出口版的红旗9导弹肯定不是红旗9导弹的最新版本。
Sinan（土耳其）
And even if we surpass HQ-9, you still got HQ-19. I will try to explain in a simple way. You sell us missile and we are going to develop a missile that will be superior to one you sold to us. (most likely and in the future)
即便超过了红旗9导弹，你们仍然还有红旗-19导弹。这么简单解释吧：你们把导弹卖给我们，我们打算发展一种导弹，这种导弹的性能优于你们卖给我们的导弹（未来很可能会这样）。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
Now, with thew help of China we can fully produce this missile at home and it has a good performance..Thats why Turkey ignored the pressure coming from Nato and chose Chinese system..
And for the whiners, you whine about Turkey being US puppet, and when Turkey chooses Chinese system over Us system, you started to whine Turkey would share the tech with Us like little girls...Go get some fresh air
在中国帮助之下，我们将有能力在国内完全自主生产这种导弹，况且这种导弹性能不错。这就是土耳其不顾来自北约的压力并选择中国导弹系统的原因。
那些哀诉者抱怨土耳其是美国傀儡。一旦土耳其选择中国系统，放弃美国系统，你们就开始像女人一样发牢骚说土耳其将会把这个技术和美国分享...一边凉快去吧。
hacksquat（土耳其）
Our Chinese friends should be more confident in themselves. FD-2000 is already an older tech for China and this is exactly why they are willing to share it's tech with us. I must say I am also surprised by some of Chinese member's remarks in this thread. Some even went as far ahead as calling us radical terrorists for gods sake.
So many stupid ideas were thrown around yesterday. Take for example Turkey getting the first shipment, transfer it to US and cancel the rest of the deal. Does anybody really believe this is a possibility? How in the world would we be able to buy weapons again from anyone but US in the future. And all this talk we wouldn't be allowed this, we woldn't be allowed that ...etc is really condescending. We are an independant country for gods sake. It is not like NATO has the control of our defences. I am sure all of these concerns will be taken care of. I really find it hard to believe the army will spend 3 billion dollars on something that will not be connected to our infrastructure and rust in some bunker somewhere.
中国朋友应该更加自信了。FD-2000导弹已经是中国的老技术，这正是他们愿意分享技术的原因。务必要说的是，我对本贴某些中国人的言论感到吃惊。有些人甚至说我们是激进的恐怖分子。
昨天出现了许多愚蠢想法。比如，土耳其将把第一批导弹转交给美国，然后取消剩余的交易。真的有人相信这是可能的吗？这样的话，除了向美国购买外，我们以后还能向谁购买武器。
拜托，我们是独立国家，绝非是北约控制了我们的国防。我仍难以相信军队会花30亿美元去购买这样的装备，即无法连上现有网络且会在某个地堡生锈的导弹。
mahatir
Good decision by Turkey , it went for TOT transfer , you can not keep on buying expensive toys from west without any TOT .
土耳其做出了很好的决定，它选择技术转让，你不能老是向西方购买昂贵的玩具。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
The Chinese looney who made up that BS story should have spent some time to research that Russia never offered S-400 for this tender. In that case he would not fail so miserably
中国疯子应该花点时间研究下，俄罗斯在投标中并未提供S-400导弹.
Beast（中国）
Luckily, S-400 never offer. I can be sure. It will still be rejected by Turkish. Face saving for Russian
好在没有提供S-400导弹，否则也会被土耳其拒绝的。俄罗斯保全了面子。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
Nope, not luckily. Turkey's invitation was rejected. Russia is only accepting direct offers to buy S-400 (no tenders) and with delivery date after 2015. China currently is first in line.
不，土耳其的邀请被拒绝了。俄罗斯只接受直接提供S-400导弹（不是投标），交货日期是2015年后。
Rain（巴基斯坦）
Turkey Look East Policy is on work.
土耳其向东看的政策起作用了。
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
翻译地址：http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7389-1-1.html
外文标题： Turkey's acquisition of HQ-9 Air Defense System | Updates & Discussion
外文地址：http://www.defence.pk/forums/tur ... tes-discussion.html
以下是土耳其等国网友的评论：
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/turkeys- ... defense-system.html
Targon（土耳其）
What they offered was better then what our "so called" friends and allies were offering, logical result.
他们的投标比我们所谓盟友的投标更诱人，这是理所当然的结果。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Great choice - HQ-9 with TOT will most definitely benefit Turkey in many ways.
选得好。红旗9最能让土耳其在许多方面受益。
flamer84
I never thought things would pan out this way...A NATO country entrusts its main AA system to China...
从未想过会是这样的结果.....一个北约国家居然把主要防空系统委托给中国......
T-123456（土耳其）
I would like to see the US or NATO comment on this decision.
想听听美国和北约对（土耳其的）这一决定是如何置评的。
Neptune（土耳其）
Yeah that's right. It's breaking news in Turkey now, US&NATO is probly shocked about the decision. I'd like to hear Chinese members opinions over that, as well as detailed specs about the system, and the news from Chinese sources. That'd be great if I get them.
没错，这个在土耳其成为了爆炸性新闻，美国和北约可能对这一决定感到震惊。我想听听中国人的看法，该系统的具体参数以及来自中国的新闻。有的话，那就太棒了。
Pak47（巴基斯坦）
Congrats, having multiple sources for weapons is always a +
Also shows how much Chinese weapon systems have matured over the last decade.
祝贺，武器来源多样化总是好事。
此外，这也表明中国武器系统过去十年里已经趋于成熟了。
madmusti（土耳其）
FD-2000 Export HQ-9
7-24km against cruise missiles
7-50km against air-launched ground attack missiles
7-125km against aircrafts
7-25km against PGMs and tactical ballistic missiles
And we will get the Tech ,so we will have ability to make our own system in 15-30 Years.
红旗9导弹出口版FD-2000能够有效拦截：
24公里内的巡航导弹；
50公里内的空射导弹；
125公里内的飞机；
25公里内的精密制导武器和战术弹道飞弹。
而且，我们还将获得技术，15-30年后我们将拥有制造这一系统的能力。
Czar786（印度）
So turkey will be the second country after Pakistan to Acquired this system .
Bad A$$ looking HQ-9 --->
也就是说，土耳其成为了继巴基斯坦之后第二个获得这一系统的国家。
红旗9导弹够难看的
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yet better than anything India has !
总比印度的更好看！
Oublious（土耳其）
i hope one thing. this is not bad china production...
我有一个希望，即这不会是粗制滥造的“中国产”......
Ankit_Pujari（印度）
A good move here. Win-win for all parties involved.
The Chinese score an export order, showing their hardware good enough to make even a NATO country acquire them
The NATO will have access to a contemporary Chinese weapon system, helping them evaluate it & develop newer counter-measures, if need be.
干得好，对有关各方都是共赢的。
中国人获得了出口订单，表明其装备足够好，连北约国家也过来买。
北约将能接触到中国的现代武器系统，对其进行评估，必要时发展新的反制措施。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yes NATO also did a REVERSE ENGINEERING on S-300 (Greece has the S-300).
的确，北约也对S-300进行了逆向工程研究（希腊有S-300防空导弹）。
Neptune（土耳其）
I wish we would had chose either Aster-30 or S-300/400. . . . .
其实我希望我们选择的是欧洲的紫苑-30或俄罗斯的S-300/400
Neptune（土耳其）
What I worry about is, the version that the Chinese folks will give us won't be much effective as they are not stupit enough to give a system like HQ-9 with ToT to a country in Turkey's position...
我担心的是，中国人出口给我们的版本性能不够强大，因为他们不会傻到在转让技术的前提下把红旗9防空导弹出口给土耳其......
mafiya（巴基斯坦）
Then why turkey chose HQ-9? What was not present in american or european systems that turkey chose HQ-9?
为什么土耳其要选择红旗9？美国或欧洲的系统到底缺了什么，使得土耳其要去选择红旗9？
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China's offer is pretty generous - TOT and co-production.
What more can one ask for?
中国更大方，提供技术转让和联合生产。
你还能要求什么？
hacksquat（土耳其）
We already rely on US 100% for our airforce. Having an independant AA network was probably one of the main drivers. And I believe the capabilities of the system were secondary to the generous tech transfer we have been offered (along with 25% cheaper price tag).
我们的空军已经完全依赖美国，拥有独立的防空网络也许是主要推动力之一。我相信系统的能力是其次，最重要的是中国慷慨的技术转让，外加价格便宜25%
BATMAN （巴基斯坦）
What are the basis of your suspicions?
你怀疑的依据是什么？
Neptune（土耳其）
NATO, defence&political ties with US. And China won't give important parts of ToT that will be signed. Everybody knows why.
土耳其是北约成员国，以及同美国保持着防卫和政治关系。中国不会转让关键部件的技术的。大家都知道原因。
ELTurco（土耳其）
Well, i guess you simply dont know, ofcourse we will get ToT..
你有所不知，我们当然会获得技术转让。
Informant（巴基斯坦）
Oh this is going to peeve a few nations. Congrats!
哦，有些国家要气急败坏了。祝贺！
BigDaddyWatch（中国）
To tell you the truth i'm not comfortable with China sharing some of its most advanced SAM technology with a NATO country.
说实话，不喜欢中国把最先进的防空导弹技术拿去和一个北约国家分享。
Sinan（土耳其）
You have point but China sold his weaponry to a high-end user, Nato member country. This alone proves how much China improved in Defence Industries in the International arena.
你说得有道理，但是中国把武器卖给了北约成员国这么一个高端用户。仅此就能在国际舞台上证明中国国防工业进步有多大。
luciferdd（中国）
You guys think to much...the most advanced technology will never be sold
你小子想太多了.....最先进的技术肯定不会卖的。
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China most likely have better tech in store.
中国很可能有更好的技术储备了。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Well every country holds back a brick !
每个国家都会有所保留的！
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
If Greece can have S-300, why cant Turkey have HQ-9s ?
既然希腊可以买S-300，为什么土耳其就不能买红旗9？
Neptune（土耳其）
man...it'd be good but, i'm sure that the hellenic s-300s are not the same as Iran's and other nations s-300s. My 2cent brotha
哥们，可以的，但是我确信希腊的S-300系统同伊朗等其他国家的S-300系统不一样。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Iran doesn't have the S-300s. This HQ-9 deal may well include Pakistan as a guarantor, you'll get the top notch gear.
伊朗没有S-300系统，巴基斯坦可能在红旗9交易中充当保证人，你们将获得顶级装备。
Czar786（印度）
I Think Pakistan played a big role in bringing china and turkey together
我觉得巴基斯坦在撮合中国和土耳其中发挥了重要作用。
T-123456（土耳其）
This puts us in a very strange situation,lets see what happens next.
我们被推入到了困惑境地，看看接下来会发生什么。
Neptune（土耳其）
EU's Aster-30 and S-30 variant that Russia's gonna offer are more reliable and more advanced. We picked HQ-9 only because it was cheap. Probly, we had to go for the cheap one maybe because we had spented trillions for Syria...etc.
欧洲的紫苑-30和俄罗斯的S-300系统更可靠，更先进。我们是因为便宜才选择红旗9的。之所以不得不选择便宜的，也许是因为我们已经叙利亚花了几万亿.....
cabatli_53（土耳其）
I srongly believe that The missiles developed will be Chinese FD-2000 derivative fully integrated in Turkey's NATO network, Otherwise, Choosing a non-NATO system wthout integration of current existing radar network is just stupidy...
我坚信中国红旗9出口版FD-2000能够整合土耳其的北约防空网络。否则，选择一个不能整合已有雷达网络的非北约系统是愚蠢之举......
T-123456（土耳其）
I am all for cooperation with China but i dont know what to expect from this.
We know who the King of stupid decisions is,thats why im cautious.
我完全支持和中国合作，但不知道我们能从中收获何利益。
大家知道谁是做出这个愚蠢决定的关键，这就是我谨慎的原因。
razgriz19（巴基斯坦）
A billion cheaper could be the reason.
It was suppose to be a $4 Billion deal, but China is asking for $3 Billion
便宜十亿美元起了效果。
本来是40亿美元的交易，但中国只要价30亿美元。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
I really thought the news was fraud..Am i the only one who is not happy with the decision?
我认为这个消息是假的。难道我是唯一对这一决定感到不满的人？
T-123456（土耳其）
Undecided
悬而未决
SUPARCO（巴基斯坦）
Turkey has finally broken ice.
Congratulations.
土耳其终于破冰了。祝贺
Bilal（巴基斯坦）
Can someone confirm that HQ-9 also incorporates IIR seeker for dual guidance mode? very useful in case of engaging stealthy targets or in case of jamming if true.
谁能证实下，红旗9是否整合了红外成像导引头和双模制导？这些在对付隐形目标或受到干扰时非常有用。
neosinan（土耳其）
To the Best of My Knowledge Aster was the only system nobody in Turkey Realy consider to buy.Basicly They didnt offer much of ToT and Aster wasnt satified anybody (technically).Quite Frankly France prove themself not a such trustful military importer(eg: Falkland crsis and gulf war)
据我说知，紫苑是土耳其人不考虑购买的唯一系统。基本上说来，他们并不提供多少技术转让，紫苑在技术上也不令人满意。坦白说，法国证明其不是一个值得信赖的武器进口国（例子：福克兰岛危机和海湾战争）。
itaskol（中国）
turkey is greet. they already bought rocket and short rang ballistic missile from china.
and now they buy long rang AA missile...
our next step should be , sell fighter like J10B or J31 to turkey.
土耳其是贪婪的，他们已经从中国购买了火箭和短程弹道导弹，现在又购买远程防空导弹......
我们下一步应该是把歼10B或J31战机卖给土耳其。
basibos（土耳其）
thanks but we are working on our own fifth generation fighter
谢谢，不过我们已经在自主研发第五代战机。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
To my Turkish & Chinese Brethren - Solve your disagreements because this could be that start of a very beneficial partnership for the both of you !
我的土耳其和中国兄弟们，解决你们的分歧，这将是你们互惠互利合作关系的开始。
faithfulguy（台湾）
China will only sell water down version to Turkey. And Turkey might transfer the first shipment to the US for study and cancel the rest of the deal.
中国将会把缩水版本的系统卖给土耳其。后者也许会把第一批导弹转交给美国研究，然后取消剩余的交易。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I trust the Turks not to do that & I trust the Chinese involved in the deal to have placed that in their calculus when they decided to sell it to Turkey !
我相信土耳其不会那样做的，我同样相信中国人在决定把导弹卖给土耳其时肯定将这种情况考虑进去了！
faithfulguy（台湾）
Since Turkey is a nato member, it would certain pass important info about this missile system to US. China is endangering its own air defense by selling this system to Turkey. I would not be surprise that China withdraw the offer and they are only in it to show its missile is competitive, not to actually sell the missile and its technology.
土耳其是北约成员国，肯定会把导弹系统的重要信息交给美国。中国此举是在冒危及本国防空的风险。如果中国撤盘，我不会吃惊，毕竟他们此举只是为了显示其导弹具有竞争力，而不是真的想卖导弹和相关技术。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I think those consideration would've been debated by China ad nauseam before tabling the offer !
我认为中国在投标前肯定充分论证了这些考量。
faithfulguy（台湾）
And since they move forward, lets watch their next steps. I still would bet that they would not transfer the tech.
On the side note, I wonder why India didn't offer Brahmos since its the best missile out there. They surely can find a way to make Brahmos an anti air missile. Just like how they converted Kavari engine to a train and boat engine.
还是看后续进展吧。我仍然坚信他们不会转让技术。
另外，印度的布拉莫斯导弹性能非常棒，为什么印度不拿去投标。他们肯定能找到方法将布拉莫斯导弹打造成防空利器，就像他们把Kavari引擎改造成火车和轮船的发动机。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Too bad that Russians not offered S400,but I understand them,Americans would immediately put a paw on best defence system in world.
So HQ9 is good alternetive way for Turkey if S400 is not in the case!But on the other hand,why Turks dont purchase American products?If I were a Turk i will always purchase NATO products(US especially)becouse US is probably most important Turkish ally,so HQ9 even S400 not that important like US allience.
@beast Yes Turkey is crucial becouse they are most powerful country in the Muslim world.
非常糟糕的是俄罗斯并未拿S400导弹去投标，不过可以理解，否则美国人将会立即获得世界上最先进的防空系统。
对于土耳其来说，没有S400的情况下，红旗9导弹是一个不错的替代选择。可是为什么土耳其不购买美国的防空导弹？如果我是土耳其，我会选择购买北约的产品（特别是美国的），因为美国可能是土耳其最重要的盟友，红旗9导弹甚或S400导弹都没有美国的友谊来得重要。
土耳其是至关重要的，它是穆斯林世界最强大的国家。
Beast（中国）
Oh yes, so crucial then they shall even allow Turkey entry into EU to please Turkey since she is so important. Dont be naive. All US needs is Saudi to gain foothole in Middel East and sunni muslim.
They rather accept a weak country like Greece into EU rather than Turkey. An another factor US patriot will never be accepted in Turkey becos Greece (foe of Turkey) owns them too.
既然如此重要，他们就该讨好土耳其，让其加入欧盟。别幼稚了，美国只需要沙特来取得进入中东和接触逊尼派穆斯林的立足点。
他们宁愿接受希腊这样的弱国进入欧盟，也不愿意接受土耳其。土耳其不会接受美国爱国者导弹的另一个原因是（土耳其的仇敌）希腊也拥有爱国者导弹。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Oh mate you dont know nothing.EU dont want Turkey in their Union becouse Turkey have 75 mln people,they are so big for European Union,and core states (France,Germany and GB) do not welcome Turkey there.
And please,we all know that China is powerful country,you dont need to put that in every sentance("We all know where future lies"etc etc.).You are economic superpower but you still lag behind Russia and US in military and political power.
Not to mention that US have two times bigger economy then China.I wish you all the best,but hardworking is part of Chinese mentality so go on and maybe you will be best on every aspects in future.
哦，伙计，你什么也不知道。欧盟之所以不接纳土耳其，是因为土耳其人口有7500万之众，（法国、德国和英国等）核心国家并不欢迎土耳其。
拜托，我们都知道中国是强国，你没必要每一句都强调这点。你们是经济超级大国，但是你们军事和政治实力仍然落后于俄罗斯和美国。
更别提美国的经济比中国大两倍。祝你们一切顺利，中国人天性勤劳刻苦，继续加油，也许你们未来能做到各方面最棒。
T-123456（土耳其）
Correction,
Germany and France dont want Turkey in the EU.
GB would be glad if Turkey was in,they would break the hegemony of Germany and France in the EU.
纠正：不希望土耳其加入欧盟的是德国和法国。英国乐见土耳其加入，因为这么一来可以打破德国和法国在欧盟的霸权。
Beast（中国）
Rather its you who cant accept Turkey is being prejudiced in the western world. Both France and Germany also has a huge population who they are acceptable while Turkish is not welcome in EU? Of Cos the EU needs to find an excuse to reject Turkey. You expect EU to tell the world bluntly they dont like muslim or non western countries not to join them?
For your outdated info. China is now more than half the economy size of US. US is still leader in political and military but the gap is getting smaller and smaller everyday.
土耳其在西方世界受偏见，接受不来这一看法的是你。法国和德国人口也很多，不也进入欧盟。要拒绝土耳其，欧盟当然需要找一个理由了。难道你希望欧盟直言不讳地对世界说他们不喜欢穆斯林或非西方国家不能加入？
你信息过时啦，中国经济规模已经超过美国的一半。美国仍然是政治和军事的领袖，但中国和美国的差距在一天天缩小。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Five million Turks live in Germany,alot of Pakistans live in UK,alot of Arabs live in France....Europa has long time ago rejected prejudice.
Turkey will become EU member when Europa needs a new strong economy to stabilze EU.
500万土耳其人居住在德国，许多巴基斯坦人居住在英国，大量阿拉伯人居住在法国.....欧洲早就拒绝偏见了。
一旦欧盟需要一个强大的新经济体来稳定欧盟，土耳其就会成为欧盟成员国。
T-123456（土耳其）
Turkey will never become a EU member.
土耳其永远不会欧盟成员国。
HariPrasad
This is really funny. China recently buy S 400 from Russia Chinese HQ 9 is a crap. Now Turkey is buying from China.
真是搞笑。中国最近从俄罗斯购买了S-400防空系统。中国红旗9就是垃圾。土耳其居然会向中国购买。
wanglaokan（中国）
Are you try to say Turkey is even stuipid than Indians?
你是说土耳其人比印度人更笨？
atatwolf（土耳其）
We shouldn't have chosen cheap Chinese junk.
我们不应该选择廉价的中国垃圾货。
Targon（土耳其）
Well, that would basically force us to completely rely on Russians and Chinese.
好吧，我们将被迫完全依赖俄罗斯人和中国人。
itaskol（中国）
It is a bad news for syrian.
对叙利亚来说是坏消息。
atatwolf（土耳其）
Turkey joining EU would mean Turkey giving up part of its soveignity. Soveignity is holy for Turks. Turks are one of the few in the history who never lost it, we will never give it up and that is why we will never join EU. We are not Greece who gives up soveignity for free-ride. That whole EU-Turkey talks are just politics. Turkish people would never accept a French, German, Brit telling them what to do. Not only for integrity but also historical reasons.
土耳其加入欧盟意味着土耳其将放弃部分主权。对于土耳其人来说，主权是神圣的。土耳其人是历史上少有的几个从未丧失主权的国家。我们决不会放弃，这就是我们永远不会加入欧盟的原因。我们不是愿意放弃主权而搭便车的希腊。欧盟和土耳其之间的谈判纯粹就是政治演出。土耳其人永远不会接受法国、德国和英国对其发号施令，这不仅出于主权完整，而且是出于历史原因。
ajkhan7（巴基斯坦）
In my humble opinion Turkey shd go for Chinese or Russian Equipment with tech transfer agreements... American and Europeans are most un-reliable people and coutries.... they might have best quality butwill be useless without later spares and equipment or upgrades.
The history speaks for itself what an Ally USA and Europe has been to most. They have proven to be worst friends for any ally.
Last but not the least Turkey has the technology, and people ... self reliance is the key. By buying others equipment u r just funding R&D of the seller.
依愚人之见，土耳其就该买附带技术转让的中国或俄罗斯装备。欧美最不可靠，他们也许有质量最好的武器，但是如果缺少零件或无法升级，那也将一无用处。
历史已经证明美国和欧洲是最糟糕的盟友。
最后但同样重要的是，土耳其有技术，有人力，自主才是关键。购买其他国家的装备是在资助其研发。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
@Beast I dont know that HQ9 is better than S300,but it is BS to insist that HQ9 is better than S400.Ask any military expert here.
Dont be ignorant and arogant.Even western military analist say that S400 is probably best Air Defence system in the world.!
And if Russia offer S400 to any world country except US,every country will accept them wide eyed.
我不知道红旗9导弹比S300导弹更好。但是，如果你坚持说红旗9导弹比S400导弹更好，那就是在扯谈。去问任何军事专家便知。
别再无知和傲慢了。就连西方军事分析家也会说S400可能是世界上最好的防空系统！
如果俄罗斯把S400卖给除了美国之外的任何国家，大家肯定会睁大眼睛接受的。
madmusti（土耳其）
We Get the Tech that we need for an Start for an own Air Defense System !
我们是想获得技术，并以此作为国产防空系统的起点！
Oublious（土耳其）
In the end the Turkish missile wil supperier then the Chinees i think. It wil be redesigned with Turkish configurations.
我认为土耳其的导弹技术最终将超过中国，土耳其将会对其重新进行设计。
S10（中国）
Superior to HQ-9? That will have to depend on the version. It's not like China is going to stop upgrading the missile system once it is sold to Turkey. Also, the export version of HQ-9 being marketed to Turkey is certainly not the latest variants of HQ-9.
比红旗9导弹更好？这要看你比较的是哪个版本。中国把导弹卖给土耳其，并非就会停止升级这种导弹系统。此外，出口版的红旗9导弹肯定不是红旗9导弹的最新版本。
Sinan（土耳其）
And even if we surpass HQ-9, you still got HQ-19. I will try to explain in a simple way. You sell us missile and we are going to develop a missile that will be superior to one you sold to us. (most likely and in the future)
即便超过了红旗9导弹，你们仍然还有红旗-19导弹。这么简单解释吧：你们把导弹卖给我们，我们打算发展一种导弹，这种导弹的性能优于你们卖给我们的导弹（未来很可能会这样）。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
Now, with thew help of China we can fully produce this missile at home and it has a good performance..Thats why Turkey ignored the pressure coming from Nato and chose Chinese system..
And for the whiners, you whine about Turkey being US puppet, and when Turkey chooses Chinese system over Us system, you started to whine Turkey would share the tech with Us like little girls...Go get some fresh air
在中国帮助之下，我们将有能力在国内完全自主生产这种导弹，况且这种导弹性能不错。这就是土耳其不顾来自北约的压力并选择中国导弹系统的原因。
那些哀诉者抱怨土耳其是美国傀儡。一旦土耳其选择中国系统，放弃美国系统，你们就开始像女人一样发牢骚说土耳其将会把这个技术和美国分享...一边凉快去吧。
hacksquat（土耳其）
Our Chinese friends should be more confident in themselves. FD-2000 is already an older tech for China and this is exactly why they are willing to share it's tech with us. I must say I am also surprised by some of Chinese member's remarks in this thread. Some even went as far ahead as calling us radical terrorists for gods sake.
So many stupid ideas were thrown around yesterday. Take for example Turkey getting the first shipment, transfer it to US and cancel the rest of the deal. Does anybody really believe this is a possibility? How in the world would we be able to buy weapons again from anyone but US in the future. And all this talk we wouldn't be allowed this, we woldn't be allowed that ...etc is really condescending. We are an independant country for gods sake. It is not like NATO has the control of our defences. I am sure all of these concerns will be taken care of. I really find it hard to believe the army will spend 3 billion dollars on something that will not be connected to our infrastructure and rust in some bunker somewhere.
中国朋友应该更加自信了。FD-2000导弹已经是中国的老技术，这正是他们愿意分享技术的原因。务必要说的是，我对本贴某些中国人的言论感到吃惊。有些人甚至说我们是激进的恐怖分子。
昨天出现了许多愚蠢想法。比如，土耳其将把第一批导弹转交给美国，然后取消剩余的交易。真的有人相信这是可能的吗？这样的话，除了向美国购买外，我们以后还能向谁购买武器。
拜托，我们是独立国家，绝非是北约控制了我们的国防。我仍难以相信军队会花30亿美元去购买这样的装备，即无法连上现有网络且会在某个地堡生锈的导弹。
mahatir
Good decision by Turkey , it went for TOT transfer , you can not keep on buying expensive toys from west without any TOT .
土耳其做出了很好的决定，它选择技术转让，你不能老是向西方购买昂贵的玩具。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
The Chinese looney who made up that BS story should have spent some time to research that Russia never offered S-400 for this tender. In that case he would not fail so miserably
中国疯子应该花点时间研究下，俄罗斯在投标中并未提供S-400导弹.
Beast（中国）
Luckily, S-400 never offer. I can be sure. It will still be rejected by Turkish. Face saving for Russian
好在没有提供S-400导弹，否则也会被土耳其拒绝的。俄罗斯保全了面子。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
Nope, not luckily. Turkey's invitation was rejected. Russia is only accepting direct offers to buy S-400 (no tenders) and with delivery date after 2015. China currently is first in line.
不，土耳其的邀请被拒绝了。俄罗斯只接受直接提供S-400导弹（不是投标），交货日期是2015年后。
Rain（巴基斯坦）
Turkey Look East Policy is on work.
土耳其向东看的政策起作用了。 三泰虎博客9月28日译文，土耳其网友在巴基斯坦军坛的土耳其版块发帖讨论：中国红旗-9导弹赢土耳其30亿美元订单。在经历了长久的等待和考察后，土耳其最终顶住多个西方国家的压力和警告，选择购买中国精密机械进出口公司（CPMIEC）参与投标的红旗-9型远程防空导弹，放弃了美国雷神公司和洛克希德•马丁公司联合提出的“爱国者”防空导弹系统、俄罗斯国防出口公司推销的S-300防空导弹以及意大利-法国联合研制的SAMP-T紫苑-30防空导弹系统。项目总价将高达30亿美元。
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
翻译地址：http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7389-1-1.html
外文标题： Turkey's acquisition of HQ-9 Air Defense System | Updates & Discussion
外文地址：http://www.defence.pk/forums/tur ... tes-discussion.html
以下是土耳其等国网友的评论：
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/turkeys- ... defense-system.html
Targon（土耳其）
What they offered was better then what our "so called" friends and allies were offering, logical result.
他们的投标比我们所谓盟友的投标更诱人，这是理所当然的结果。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Great choice - HQ-9 with TOT will most definitely benefit Turkey in many ways.
选得好。红旗9最能让土耳其在许多方面受益。
flamer84
I never thought things would pan out this way...A NATO country entrusts its main AA system to China...
从未想过会是这样的结果.....一个北约国家居然把主要防空系统委托给中国......
T-123456（土耳其）
I would like to see the US or NATO comment on this decision.
想听听美国和北约对（土耳其的）这一决定是如何置评的。
Neptune（土耳其）
Yeah that's right. It's breaking news in Turkey now, US&NATO is probly shocked about the decision. I'd like to hear Chinese members opinions over that, as well as detailed specs about the system, and the news from Chinese sources. That'd be great if I get them.
没错，这个在土耳其成为了爆炸性新闻，美国和北约可能对这一决定感到震惊。我想听听中国人的看法，该系统的具体参数以及来自中国的新闻。有的话，那就太棒了。
Pak47（巴基斯坦）
Congrats, having multiple sources for weapons is always a +
Also shows how much Chinese weapon systems have matured over the last decade.
祝贺，武器来源多样化总是好事。
此外，这也表明中国武器系统过去十年里已经趋于成熟了。
madmusti（土耳其）
FD-2000 Export HQ-9
7-24km against cruise missiles
7-50km against air-launched ground attack missiles
7-125km against aircrafts
7-25km against PGMs and tactical ballistic missiles
And we will get the Tech ,so we will have ability to make our own system in 15-30 Years.
红旗9导弹出口版FD-2000能够有效拦截：
24公里内的巡航导弹；
50公里内的空射导弹；
125公里内的飞机；
25公里内的精密制导武器和战术弹道飞弹。
而且，我们还将获得技术，15-30年后我们将拥有制造这一系统的能力。
Czar786（印度）
So turkey will be the second country after Pakistan to Acquired this system .
Bad A$$ looking HQ-9 --->
也就是说，土耳其成为了继巴基斯坦之后第二个获得这一系统的国家。
红旗9导弹够难看的
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yet better than anything India has !
总比印度的更好看！
Oublious（土耳其）
i hope one thing. this is not bad china production...
我有一个希望，即这不会是粗制滥造的“中国产”......
Ankit_Pujari（印度）
A good move here. Win-win for all parties involved.
The Chinese score an export order, showing their hardware good enough to make even a NATO country acquire them
The NATO will have access to a contemporary Chinese weapon system, helping them evaluate it & develop newer counter-measures, if need be.
干得好，对有关各方都是共赢的。
中国人获得了出口订单，表明其装备足够好，连北约国家也过来买。
北约将能接触到中国的现代武器系统，对其进行评估，必要时发展新的反制措施。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Yes NATO also did a REVERSE ENGINEERING on S-300 (Greece has the S-300).
的确，北约也对S-300进行了逆向工程研究（希腊有S-300防空导弹）。
Neptune（土耳其）
I wish we would had chose either Aster-30 or S-300/400. . . . .
其实我希望我们选择的是欧洲的紫苑-30或俄罗斯的S-300/400
Neptune（土耳其）
What I worry about is, the version that the Chinese folks will give us won't be much effective as they are not stupit enough to give a system like HQ-9 with ToT to a country in Turkey's position...
我担心的是，中国人出口给我们的版本性能不够强大，因为他们不会傻到在转让技术的前提下把红旗9防空导弹出口给土耳其......
mafiya（巴基斯坦）
Then why turkey chose HQ-9? What was not present in american or european systems that turkey chose HQ-9?
为什么土耳其要选择红旗9？美国或欧洲的系统到底缺了什么，使得土耳其要去选择红旗9？
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China's offer is pretty generous - TOT and co-production.
What more can one ask for?
中国更大方，提供技术转让和联合生产。
你还能要求什么？
hacksquat（土耳其）
We already rely on US 100% for our airforce. Having an independant AA network was probably one of the main drivers. And I believe the capabilities of the system were secondary to the generous tech transfer we have been offered (along with 25% cheaper price tag).
我们的空军已经完全依赖美国，拥有独立的防空网络也许是主要推动力之一。我相信系统的能力是其次，最重要的是中国慷慨的技术转让，外加价格便宜25%
BATMAN （巴基斯坦）
What are the basis of your suspicions?
你怀疑的依据是什么？
Neptune（土耳其）
NATO, defence&political ties with US. And China won't give important parts of ToT that will be signed. Everybody knows why.
土耳其是北约成员国，以及同美国保持着防卫和政治关系。中国不会转让关键部件的技术的。大家都知道原因。
ELTurco（土耳其）
Well, i guess you simply dont know, ofcourse we will get ToT..
你有所不知，我们当然会获得技术转让。
Informant（巴基斯坦）
Oh this is going to peeve a few nations. Congrats!
哦，有些国家要气急败坏了。祝贺！
BigDaddyWatch（中国）
To tell you the truth i'm not comfortable with China sharing some of its most advanced SAM technology with a NATO country.
说实话，不喜欢中国把最先进的防空导弹技术拿去和一个北约国家分享。
Sinan（土耳其）
You have point but China sold his weaponry to a high-end user, Nato member country. This alone proves how much China improved in Defence Industries in the International arena.
你说得有道理，但是中国把武器卖给了北约成员国这么一个高端用户。仅此就能在国际舞台上证明中国国防工业进步有多大。
luciferdd（中国）
You guys think to much...the most advanced technology will never be sold
你小子想太多了.....最先进的技术肯定不会卖的。
armchairPrivate（加拿大）
China most likely have better tech in store.
中国很可能有更好的技术储备了。
Hafizzz（巴基斯坦）
Well every country holds back a brick !
每个国家都会有所保留的！
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
If Greece can have S-300, why cant Turkey have HQ-9s ?
既然希腊可以买S-300，为什么土耳其就不能买红旗9？
Neptune（土耳其）
man...it'd be good but, i'm sure that the hellenic s-300s are not the same as Iran's and other nations s-300s. My 2cent brotha
哥们，可以的，但是我确信希腊的S-300系统同伊朗等其他国家的S-300系统不一样。
Aeronaut（巴基斯坦）
Iran doesn't have the S-300s. This HQ-9 deal may well include Pakistan as a guarantor, you'll get the top notch gear.
伊朗没有S-300系统，巴基斯坦可能在红旗9交易中充当保证人，你们将获得顶级装备。
Czar786（印度）
I Think Pakistan played a big role in bringing china and turkey together
我觉得巴基斯坦在撮合中国和土耳其中发挥了重要作用。
T-123456（土耳其）
This puts us in a very strange situation,lets see what happens next.
我们被推入到了困惑境地，看看接下来会发生什么。
Neptune（土耳其）
EU's Aster-30 and S-30 variant that Russia's gonna offer are more reliable and more advanced. We picked HQ-9 only because it was cheap. Probly, we had to go for the cheap one maybe because we had spented trillions for Syria...etc.
欧洲的紫苑-30和俄罗斯的S-300系统更可靠，更先进。我们是因为便宜才选择红旗9的。之所以不得不选择便宜的，也许是因为我们已经叙利亚花了几万亿.....
cabatli_53（土耳其）
I srongly believe that The missiles developed will be Chinese FD-2000 derivative fully integrated in Turkey's NATO network, Otherwise, Choosing a non-NATO system wthout integration of current existing radar network is just stupidy...
我坚信中国红旗9出口版FD-2000能够整合土耳其的北约防空网络。否则，选择一个不能整合已有雷达网络的非北约系统是愚蠢之举......
T-123456（土耳其）
I am all for cooperation with China but i dont know what to expect from this.
We know who the King of stupid decisions is,thats why im cautious.
我完全支持和中国合作，但不知道我们能从中收获何利益。
大家知道谁是做出这个愚蠢决定的关键，这就是我谨慎的原因。
razgriz19（巴基斯坦）
A billion cheaper could be the reason.
It was suppose to be a $4 Billion deal, but China is asking for $3 Billion
便宜十亿美元起了效果。
本来是40亿美元的交易，但中国只要价30亿美元。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
I really thought the news was fraud..Am i the only one who is not happy with the decision?
我认为这个消息是假的。难道我是唯一对这一决定感到不满的人？
T-123456（土耳其）
Undecided
悬而未决
SUPARCO（巴基斯坦）
Turkey has finally broken ice.
Congratulations.
土耳其终于破冰了。祝贺
Bilal（巴基斯坦）
Can someone confirm that HQ-9 also incorporates IIR seeker for dual guidance mode? very useful in case of engaging stealthy targets or in case of jamming if true.
谁能证实下，红旗9是否整合了红外成像导引头和双模制导？这些在对付隐形目标或受到干扰时非常有用。
neosinan（土耳其）
To the Best of My Knowledge Aster was the only system nobody in Turkey Realy consider to buy.Basicly They didnt offer much of ToT and Aster wasnt satified anybody (technically).Quite Frankly France prove themself not a such trustful military importer(eg: Falkland crsis and gulf war)
据我说知，紫苑是土耳其人不考虑购买的唯一系统。基本上说来，他们并不提供多少技术转让，紫苑在技术上也不令人满意。坦白说，法国证明其不是一个值得信赖的武器进口国（例子：福克兰岛危机和海湾战争）。
itaskol（中国）
turkey is greet. they already bought rocket and short rang ballistic missile from china.
and now they buy long rang AA missile...
our next step should be , sell fighter like J10B or J31 to turkey.
土耳其是贪婪的，他们已经从中国购买了火箭和短程弹道导弹，现在又购买远程防空导弹......
我们下一步应该是把歼10B或J31战机卖给土耳其。
basibos（土耳其）
thanks but we are working on our own fifth generation fighter
谢谢，不过我们已经在自主研发第五代战机。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
To my Turkish & Chinese Brethren - Solve your disagreements because this could be that start of a very beneficial partnership for the both of you !
我的土耳其和中国兄弟们，解决你们的分歧，这将是你们互惠互利合作关系的开始。
faithfulguy（台湾）
China will only sell water down version to Turkey. And Turkey might transfer the first shipment to the US for study and cancel the rest of the deal.
中国将会把缩水版本的系统卖给土耳其。后者也许会把第一批导弹转交给美国研究，然后取消剩余的交易。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I trust the Turks not to do that & I trust the Chinese involved in the deal to have placed that in their calculus when they decided to sell it to Turkey !
我相信土耳其不会那样做的，我同样相信中国人在决定把导弹卖给土耳其时肯定将这种情况考虑进去了！
faithfulguy（台湾）
Since Turkey is a nato member, it would certain pass important info about this missile system to US. China is endangering its own air defense by selling this system to Turkey. I would not be surprise that China withdraw the offer and they are only in it to show its missile is competitive, not to actually sell the missile and its technology.
土耳其是北约成员国，肯定会把导弹系统的重要信息交给美国。中国此举是在冒危及本国防空的风险。如果中国撤盘，我不会吃惊，毕竟他们此举只是为了显示其导弹具有竞争力，而不是真的想卖导弹和相关技术。
Armstrong（巴基斯坦）
I think those consideration would've been debated by China ad nauseam before tabling the offer !
我认为中国在投标前肯定充分论证了这些考量。
faithfulguy（台湾）
And since they move forward, lets watch their next steps. I still would bet that they would not transfer the tech.
On the side note, I wonder why India didn't offer Brahmos since its the best missile out there. They surely can find a way to make Brahmos an anti air missile. Just like how they converted Kavari engine to a train and boat engine.
还是看后续进展吧。我仍然坚信他们不会转让技术。
另外，印度的布拉莫斯导弹性能非常棒，为什么印度不拿去投标。他们肯定能找到方法将布拉莫斯导弹打造成防空利器，就像他们把Kavari引擎改造成火车和轮船的发动机。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Too bad that Russians not offered S400,but I understand them,Americans would immediately put a paw on best defence system in world.
So HQ9 is good alternetive way for Turkey if S400 is not in the case!But on the other hand,why Turks dont purchase American products?If I were a Turk i will always purchase NATO products(US especially)becouse US is probably most important Turkish ally,so HQ9 even S400 not that important like US allience.
@beast Yes Turkey is crucial becouse they are most powerful country in the Muslim world.
非常糟糕的是俄罗斯并未拿S400导弹去投标，不过可以理解，否则美国人将会立即获得世界上最先进的防空系统。
对于土耳其来说，没有S400的情况下，红旗9导弹是一个不错的替代选择。可是为什么土耳其不购买美国的防空导弹？如果我是土耳其，我会选择购买北约的产品（特别是美国的），因为美国可能是土耳其最重要的盟友，红旗9导弹甚或S400导弹都没有美国的友谊来得重要。
土耳其是至关重要的，它是穆斯林世界最强大的国家。
Beast（中国）
Oh yes, so crucial then they shall even allow Turkey entry into EU to please Turkey since she is so important. Dont be naive. All US needs is Saudi to gain foothole in Middel East and sunni muslim.
They rather accept a weak country like Greece into EU rather than Turkey. An another factor US patriot will never be accepted in Turkey becos Greece (foe of Turkey) owns them too.
既然如此重要，他们就该讨好土耳其，让其加入欧盟。别幼稚了，美国只需要沙特来取得进入中东和接触逊尼派穆斯林的立足点。
他们宁愿接受希腊这样的弱国进入欧盟，也不愿意接受土耳其。土耳其不会接受美国爱国者导弹的另一个原因是（土耳其的仇敌）希腊也拥有爱国者导弹。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Oh mate you dont know nothing.EU dont want Turkey in their Union becouse Turkey have 75 mln people,they are so big for European Union,and core states (France,Germany and GB) do not welcome Turkey there.
And please,we all know that China is powerful country,you dont need to put that in every sentance("We all know where future lies"etc etc.).You are economic superpower but you still lag behind Russia and US in military and political power.
Not to mention that US have two times bigger economy then China.I wish you all the best,but hardworking is part of Chinese mentality so go on and maybe you will be best on every aspects in future.
哦，伙计，你什么也不知道。欧盟之所以不接纳土耳其，是因为土耳其人口有7500万之众，（法国、德国和英国等）核心国家并不欢迎土耳其。
拜托，我们都知道中国是强国，你没必要每一句都强调这点。你们是经济超级大国，但是你们军事和政治实力仍然落后于俄罗斯和美国。
更别提美国的经济比中国大两倍。祝你们一切顺利，中国人天性勤劳刻苦，继续加油，也许你们未来能做到各方面最棒。
T-123456（土耳其）
Correction,
Germany and France dont want Turkey in the EU.
GB would be glad if Turkey was in,they would break the hegemony of Germany and France in the EU.
纠正：不希望土耳其加入欧盟的是德国和法国。英国乐见土耳其加入，因为这么一来可以打破德国和法国在欧盟的霸权。
Beast（中国）
Rather its you who cant accept Turkey is being prejudiced in the western world. Both France and Germany also has a huge population who they are acceptable while Turkish is not welcome in EU? Of Cos the EU needs to find an excuse to reject Turkey. You expect EU to tell the world bluntly they dont like muslim or non western countries not to join them?
For your outdated info. China is now more than half the economy size of US. US is still leader in political and military but the gap is getting smaller and smaller everyday.
土耳其在西方世界受偏见，接受不来这一看法的是你。法国和德国人口也很多，不也进入欧盟。要拒绝土耳其，欧盟当然需要找一个理由了。难道你希望欧盟直言不讳地对世界说他们不喜欢穆斯林或非西方国家不能加入？
你信息过时啦，中国经济规模已经超过美国的一半。美国仍然是政治和军事的领袖，但中国和美国的差距在一天天缩小。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
Five million Turks live in Germany,alot of Pakistans live in UK,alot of Arabs live in France....Europa has long time ago rejected prejudice.
Turkey will become EU member when Europa needs a new strong economy to stabilze EU.
500万土耳其人居住在德国，许多巴基斯坦人居住在英国，大量阿拉伯人居住在法国.....欧洲早就拒绝偏见了。
一旦欧盟需要一个强大的新经济体来稳定欧盟，土耳其就会成为欧盟成员国。
T-123456（土耳其）
Turkey will never become a EU member.
土耳其永远不会欧盟成员国。
HariPrasad
This is really funny. China recently buy S 400 from Russia Chinese HQ 9 is a crap. Now Turkey is buying from China.
真是搞笑。中国最近从俄罗斯购买了S-400防空系统。中国红旗9就是垃圾。土耳其居然会向中国购买。
wanglaokan（中国）
Are you try to say Turkey is even stuipid than Indians?
你是说土耳其人比印度人更笨？
atatwolf（土耳其）
We shouldn't have chosen cheap Chinese junk.
我们不应该选择廉价的中国垃圾货。
Targon（土耳其）
Well, that would basically force us to completely rely on Russians and Chinese.
好吧，我们将被迫完全依赖俄罗斯人和中国人。
itaskol（中国）
It is a bad news for syrian.
对叙利亚来说是坏消息。
atatwolf（土耳其）
Turkey joining EU would mean Turkey giving up part of its soveignity. Soveignity is holy for Turks. Turks are one of the few in the history who never lost it, we will never give it up and that is why we will never join EU. We are not Greece who gives up soveignity for free-ride. That whole EU-Turkey talks are just politics. Turkish people would never accept a French, German, Brit telling them what to do. Not only for integrity but also historical reasons.
土耳其加入欧盟意味着土耳其将放弃部分主权。对于土耳其人来说，主权是神圣的。土耳其人是历史上少有的几个从未丧失主权的国家。我们决不会放弃，这就是我们永远不会加入欧盟的原因。我们不是愿意放弃主权而搭便车的希腊。欧盟和土耳其之间的谈判纯粹就是政治演出。土耳其人永远不会接受法国、德国和英国对其发号施令，这不仅出于主权完整，而且是出于历史原因。
ajkhan7（巴基斯坦）
In my humble opinion Turkey shd go for Chinese or Russian Equipment with tech transfer agreements... American and Europeans are most un-reliable people and coutries.... they might have best quality butwill be useless without later spares and equipment or upgrades.
The history speaks for itself what an Ally USA and Europe has been to most. They have proven to be worst friends for any ally.
Last but not the least Turkey has the technology, and people ... self reliance is the key. By buying others equipment u r just funding R&D of the seller.
依愚人之见，土耳其就该买附带技术转让的中国或俄罗斯装备。欧美最不可靠，他们也许有质量最好的武器，但是如果缺少零件或无法升级，那也将一无用处。
历史已经证明美国和欧洲是最糟糕的盟友。
最后但同样重要的是，土耳其有技术，有人力，自主才是关键。购买其他国家的装备是在资助其研发。
DejanSRB（俄罗斯）
@Beast I dont know that HQ9 is better than S300,but it is BS to insist that HQ9 is better than S400.Ask any military expert here.
Dont be ignorant and arogant.Even western military analist say that S400 is probably best Air Defence system in the world.!
And if Russia offer S400 to any world country except US,every country will accept them wide eyed.
我不知道红旗9导弹比S300导弹更好。但是，如果你坚持说红旗9导弹比S400导弹更好，那就是在扯谈。去问任何军事专家便知。
别再无知和傲慢了。就连西方军事分析家也会说S400可能是世界上最好的防空系统！
如果俄罗斯把S400卖给除了美国之外的任何国家，大家肯定会睁大眼睛接受的。
madmusti（土耳其）
We Get the Tech that we need for an Start for an own Air Defense System !
我们是想获得技术，并以此作为国产防空系统的起点！
Oublious（土耳其）
In the end the Turkish missile wil supperier then the Chinees i think. It wil be redesigned with Turkish configurations.
我认为土耳其的导弹技术最终将超过中国，土耳其将会对其重新进行设计。
S10（中国）
Superior to HQ-9? That will have to depend on the version. It's not like China is going to stop upgrading the missile system once it is sold to Turkey. Also, the export version of HQ-9 being marketed to Turkey is certainly not the latest variants of HQ-9.
比红旗9导弹更好？这要看你比较的是哪个版本。中国把导弹卖给土耳其，并非就会停止升级这种导弹系统。此外，出口版的红旗9导弹肯定不是红旗9导弹的最新版本。
Sinan（土耳其）
And even if we surpass HQ-9, you still got HQ-19. I will try to explain in a simple way. You sell us missile and we are going to develop a missile that will be superior to one you sold to us. (most likely and in the future)
即便超过了红旗9导弹，你们仍然还有红旗-19导弹。这么简单解释吧：你们把导弹卖给我们，我们打算发展一种导弹，这种导弹的性能优于你们卖给我们的导弹（未来很可能会这样）。
BronzePlaque（土耳其）
Now, with thew help of China we can fully produce this missile at home and it has a good performance..Thats why Turkey ignored the pressure coming from Nato and chose Chinese system..
And for the whiners, you whine about Turkey being US puppet, and when Turkey chooses Chinese system over Us system, you started to whine Turkey would share the tech with Us like little girls...Go get some fresh air
在中国帮助之下，我们将有能力在国内完全自主生产这种导弹，况且这种导弹性能不错。这就是土耳其不顾来自北约的压力并选择中国导弹系统的原因。
那些哀诉者抱怨土耳其是美国傀儡。一旦土耳其选择中国系统，放弃美国系统，你们就开始像女人一样发牢骚说土耳其将会把这个技术和美国分享...一边凉快去吧。
hacksquat（土耳其）
Our Chinese friends should be more confident in themselves. FD-2000 is already an older tech for China and this is exactly why they are willing to share it's tech with us. I must say I am also surprised by some of Chinese member's remarks in this thread. Some even went as far ahead as calling us radical terrorists for gods sake.
So many stupid ideas were thrown around yesterday. Take for example Turkey getting the first shipment, transfer it to US and cancel the rest of the deal. Does anybody really believe this is a possibility? How in the world would we be able to buy weapons again from anyone but US in the future. And all this talk we wouldn't be allowed this, we woldn't be allowed that ...etc is really condescending. We are an independant country for gods sake. It is not like NATO has the control of our defences. I am sure all of these concerns will be taken care of. I really find it hard to believe the army will spend 3 billion dollars on something that will not be connected to our infrastructure and rust in some bunker somewhere.
中国朋友应该更加自信了。FD-2000导弹已经是中国的老技术，这正是他们愿意分享技术的原因。务必要说的是，我对本贴某些中国人的言论感到吃惊。有些人甚至说我们是激进的恐怖分子。
昨天出现了许多愚蠢想法。比如，土耳其将把第一批导弹转交给美国，然后取消剩余的交易。真的有人相信这是可能的吗？这样的话，除了向美国购买外，我们以后还能向谁购买武器。
拜托，我们是独立国家，绝非是北约控制了我们的国防。我仍难以相信军队会花30亿美元去购买这样的装备，即无法连上现有网络且会在某个地堡生锈的导弹。
mahatir
Good decision by Turkey , it went for TOT transfer , you can not keep on buying expensive toys from west without any TOT .
土耳其做出了很好的决定，它选择技术转让，你不能老是向西方购买昂贵的玩具。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
The Chinese looney who made up that BS story should have spent some time to research that Russia never offered S-400 for this tender. In that case he would not fail so miserably
中国疯子应该花点时间研究下，俄罗斯在投标中并未提供S-400导弹.
Beast（中国）
Luckily, S-400 never offer. I can be sure. It will still be rejected by Turkish. Face saving for Russian
好在没有提供S-400导弹，否则也会被土耳其拒绝的。俄罗斯保全了面子。
zzzz（俄罗斯）
Nope, not luckily. Turkey's invitation was rejected. Russia is only accepting direct offers to buy S-400 (no tenders) and with delivery date after 2015. China currently is first in line.
不，土耳其的邀请被拒绝了。俄罗斯只接受直接提供S-400导弹（不是投标），交货日期是2015年后。
Rain（巴基斯坦）
Turkey Look East Policy is on work.
土耳其向东看的政策起作用了。
看来火鸡国的明白人不少，GZJY不多。
土鸡是想做一个有声有色的大国么？
哇各种吵架啊，楼主良心转载赞一个
好象比之前看到的多翻译了一些。还可以更多点吗？
想到土鸡支持豆奶，连一个萝卜都不愿意给它们…
为什么那个WW有把三哥的不拉莫斯当防空导弹的奇葩想法？
土耳其也不傻。
Elvina 发表于 2013-9-29 23:04
为什么那个WW有把三哥的不拉莫斯当防空导弹的奇葩想法？
很简单，因为这是一个正常的湾湾。
为什么那个WW有把三哥的不拉莫斯当防空导弹的奇葩想法？
很简单，因为这是一个正常的湾湾。
里面的俄罗斯人很酸。
gddg123 发表于 2013-9-29 22:37
想到土鸡支持豆奶，连一个萝卜都不愿意给它们…
不知道这次有不有放弃支持东突的条件
想到土鸡支持豆奶，连一个萝卜都不愿意给它们…
不知道这次有不有放弃支持东突的条件
谢谢楼主分享。
Elvina 发表于 2013-9-29 23:04
为什么那个WW有把三哥的不拉莫斯当防空导弹的奇葩想法？
中国朋友应该更加自信了。FD-2000导弹已经是中国的老技术，这正是他们愿意分享技术的原因。务必要说的是，我对本贴某些中国人的言论感到吃惊。有些人甚至说我们是激进的恐怖分子。
昨天出现了许多愚蠢想法。比如，土耳其将把第一批导弹转交给美国，然后取消剩余的交易。真的有人相信这是可能的吗？这样的话，除了向美国购买外，我们以后还能向谁购买武器。
拜托，我们是独立国家，绝非是北约控制了我们的国防。我仍难以相信军队会花30亿美元去购买这样的装备，即无法连上现有网络且会在某个地堡生锈的导弹。
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WW现在处于歇斯底里状态，人家土耳其明白着呢
为什么那个WW有把三哥的不拉莫斯当防空导弹的奇葩想法？
中国朋友应该更加自信了。FD-2000导弹已经是中国的老技术，这正是他们愿意分享技术的原因。务必要说的是，我对本贴某些中国人的言论感到吃惊。有些人甚至说我们是激进的恐怖分子。
昨天出现了许多愚蠢想法。比如，土耳其将把第一批导弹转交给美国，然后取消剩余的交易。真的有人相信这是可能的吗？这样的话，除了向美国购买外，我们以后还能向谁购买武器。
拜托，我们是独立国家，绝非是北约控制了我们的国防。我仍难以相信军队会花30亿美元去购买这样的装备，即无法连上现有网络且会在某个地堡生锈的导弹。
===============================================================
WW现在处于歇斯底里状态，人家土耳其明白着呢
感觉挺乱的，每个人的观点都不太一样。
这贴在一定程度上影响了我对土鸡的看法，明白人不少啊！！！！！！！！！