翻译贴：这样做合适吗？看阿三论坛上的讨论，Who is the ...

今天在印度军坛上看到一个中国人发了这样一个帖子，让俺心里很不舒服，我们自己有问题自己人讨论讨论就行了，如果非要发到国外论坛上去抹黑自己的祖国，我总觉得有些过分了，印度人怎么看我们想必大家都清楚，难不成我们要指望印度人来帮我们解决问题？
这个叫kickok2000的人，我看过他的不少帖子，相必他也是忧国忧民，但这个话题到底合不合适，尤其是在印度的军坛上，大家都来发表一下看法。由于太长，我会分段把自己翻译的内容贴上来。

楼主kickok2000发帖：
（图片大家都清楚，国内网站都能找到，不过楼主已删除）
Who is the Real Enemy and Threat to China？（中国真正的威胁？）

Not US, not Japan, guess who? Here they come
不是美国，不是日本，猜猜是谁？看看这些图片
This is not a hotel
这不是旅馆
Is this congress building? No, this is just our county office
这是国会建筑吗？不，这是我们的乡镇办公室
This is not a museum
这不是博物馆
Do they need two of them?
他们需要建两座吗？
Look how good they are! I'm sure our officials will serve people better
看看多么华丽啊，我相信我们的官员会更好的为人民服务
Let a few people get rich first, we are rich now
让一部分人先富，我们现在富裕了
Don't forget our generals! They are working hard to defend the country
不要忘了我们的将军，他们在很努力的保卫国家
The very threat to China is her corrupted government. China can not be defeat unless from within and history has been proving it again and again. Our bright future could be doomed unless China can correct this deadly cancer which is result from a system without check and balance
中国真正的威胁是她腐败的政府，中国不会被打败除非内部毁掉自己，历史已经一再证明这一点了。我们的未来可能会完蛋，除非中国改变这种由没有监督和平衡的制度引起的致命的癌症。That's how they treat normal people
他们就是这样对待普通人的
Look at them, do they look like good guy?
看看他们，他们看起来像是好人吗？
That's why they are hated
这就是为什么他们被仇恨？

中国人badguy2000回复：
well,kickock,when did you moved to North America? are you born in 1975?
I think you are one of such guys who was born before 1980 and moved out of CHina before 2000.
I found it a common "instinct" for guys like you to attribute all unfairs in CHinese society to the "evil CCP".
the proper nickname for the guys like you is "体制党“. 动不动就是”只差两个人了“。你远�� �国内太久了，你的观点也还停留在一� ��十年前的中国。简而言之，你已经是 ”奥特曼"了！
guy, you are away from the country for too long and out of the mainstream of CHinese society..........it will be a hard job for you to find Victor Chen and Broad Wu
kickok同学，你什么时候移民到北美的？你是1975年出生的吗？
我觉得你是出生去1980年代前并且在2000年前离开中国的人
我发现一个通例，像你这样的一类人总喜欢把当前中国的不公平归结于“邪恶tg”
这一类人的外号是“体制党”，动不动就只差两个人了，你远离国内太久了，你现在的观点还停留在十年前的中国，简而言之，你已经是“奥特曼”了

印度人回复：
who are they and what are this building ?
他们是谁？他们建的这是什么？

tony4562回复：
Chinese government is for sure corrupt, but this forum is not the most suitable place to discuss about that.
Another thing, the uniformed ones appearing in the last few pictures are not from the PLA or the police, they are from the City Urban Administrative and Law Enforcement Bureau
中国政府肯定是腐败了，但是这个论坛不适合讨论这些问题
另外，最后一张图片里穿制服的不是PLA也不是警察，他们是城管

中国人badguy2000回复：
it is called "Chengguan".
Indeed, "Chengguan" is quite disreputable among common people,but it is stupid to dismiss "chengguan" abruptly. If "Chengguan" were abolished abruptly, CHinese cities would be as messed as Indian's cities.
it is always quite cheap to bash the unfairs of the current unperfect society,but it is always quite hard to design a feasible and better system to replace the current unperfect system
他们被称作“城管”
确实，城管在普通人心中的形象确实很差，但是完全取消城管也是不行的，如果没有了城管，中国的城市会像印度一样混乱
宣传当前的社会的不公是相当容易的，但是想寻找一个新的模式来取代当前的这种不完美的社会也是相当困难的。

中国楼主kickok2000回复：
Badguy2000, I'm not in disconnecting mode with China. I'm in China every year witness her development and growing problem. I don’t like to hide my head in the sands. Since in this forum there are numerous threads about China’s growing power and military, I feel it’s necessary to show people another side of China. A side that is behind our exciting outside appearance that is currently rotting.
Don’t you think they are real enemy and threat to China?
Badguy2000同志，我每年都在中国目睹她的发展和种种问题，我不想把头埋进沙子里，既然这个论坛里有很多关于中国不断增长的力量和军事的话题，我觉得像人们展示一下中国的另一面很有必要，一个藏在我们华丽的外表后面的另一面。
你不觉得那些问题就是我们真正的敌人和威胁吗？

中国人nimo回复：
Totally agree with you BG.
That is the attitude we should have while facing all the problems in China. Be critical and more importantly, be constructive. Being critical is the easiest thing to do, you just open your big mouth and can be a very good critic. But being constructive, you need to act, doing is always harder than talking. It will be disastrous for a country to have too many people indulging in criticising, while too little people dedicating to acting
完全同意你的说法，badguy2000同志
这就是我们面对种种问题的中国所应该持有的态度。学会批评，但更重要的是，要有建设性。批评是最容易做到的，你只要张张嘴就能成为一个很好的批评家。但是说到建设性，你必须行动，做往往比说难。一个国家拥有只会批评而缺失付出实质行动的人将是灾难性的。

印度人回复；
I can't see the pictures
我看不到图片

中国楼主kickok2000回复：
Then you should do something, Nimo. I think most Chinese are afraid of criticizing government's wrongdoings in the first place, let alone the actions. It's understandable though
Nimo同志，那你就应该做点什么了，我认为大多数中国人并不敢批评中国政府的错误，更不要说行动了。

Ray回复：
chengguan means Monk, right?
How will abolishing them make Chinese cities like the Indian cities?
城管的意思是Monk，对吗？
取消城管怎么会让中国的城市变得像印度的城市一样？

Pmatir回复：
kickok,
Can't see the pictures. Could you please check?
Thanks
kickok同志，
我看不到图片，你能再检查一下吗
谢谢

中国楼主kickok2000回复：
I deleted my pictures, because I still want to live in China
我把图片删除了，因为我还想继续生活在中国

Justforlauhg回复：
most recent example.
Violent rabbit cartoon skewers China's injustice
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/ap/201101...t-bb10fb8.html
最近的一个例子：
邪恶卡通兔子影射中国的不公平
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/ap/201101...t-bb10fb8.html

ohimalaya回复：
Kickoff, I love your exposing another side of China -- like those pics - luxurious government bldgs, and tough law enforcement.
but why did u delete them? those pics are already available on many Chinese sites. why are u frightened? is China today getting more and more tolerant ?
that 1st gvnmt bldg. of your pics as splendid as " White House", looks like Shunde District Adm Bldg. of Foshan City,where I've stayed. U can't call anything of that 'corrption‘, bearing in mind Shunde is one of the richest in China.
Even now China is not as democratic or free, or clean as India, I'm glad she's in the right direction as a runner-up
Kickok同志，对你向我们展示中国的另一面很喜欢，就像图片里展示的，奢华的政府，糟糕的法制
但是你为什么要删除那些图片呢？这些图片在中国的网站上都是能够找到的，你为什么会害怕？今天的中国越来越残暴了吗？
图片里像是“白宫”的建筑是在佛山顺德，一个我曾经待过的城市，你不能把什么都说成是腐败，记住顺德是中国最富有的地方之一
虽然今天的中国并不是那样的民主自由，或者是像印度那样清廉，但是我很高兴她正在向正确的方向前进。

warrtreme回复：
i would like to see those pictures back kickock
i didnt see them last time
kickok同志，我想看看图片
我上次没看到

jpreveen回复：
I value his security more so I won't demand him to post those photos back
我觉得他的安全更重要，还是不要要求他发图片了吧

ray回复：
I want to see it.
I don't live in China!
我想看那些图片
我没有生活在中国

ray回复：
Try one and criticise Hu or Wen, even here.
And let us see how long you last in China and if you are abroad, how you return
你批评一下胡或者温试试，即使是在这里
然后就看看你在中国能待多久，如果你在国外，看看你怎么回去。

ray对ohimalaya的回复：
OK.
Why don't you put those pictures yourself?
That will show how liberal all is in China.
We are curious!
The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say in the English language.
India is not clean and we have no hesitation in saying so, since that is the truth!
好啊
你自己为什么不敢贴那些图片呢？
就是要看看中国有多么自由
我们很好奇
就像英语里说的，拿出证据来嘛
印度并不清廉，我们从不迟疑说出这些，因为事实如此

ernesre回复：
Dont worry you can stay in India and say all sorts of things without worrying
不用担心，你可以留在印度，这里说啥话都不用怕。

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=18464&page=1

今天在印度军坛上看到一个中国人发了这样一个帖子，让俺心里很不舒服，我们自己有问题自己人讨论讨论就行了，如果非要发到国外论坛上去抹黑自己的祖国，我总觉得有些过分了，印度人怎么看我们想必大家都清楚，难不成我们要指望印度人来帮我们解决问题？
这个叫kickok2000的人，我看过他的不少帖子，相必他也是忧国忧民，但这个话题到底合不合适，尤其是在印度的军坛上，大家都来发表一下看法。由于太长，我会分段把自己翻译的内容贴上来。

楼主kickok2000发帖：
（图片大家都清楚，国内网站都能找到，不过楼主已删除）
Who is the Real Enemy and Threat to China？（中国真正的威胁？）

Not US, not Japan, guess who? Here they come
不是美国，不是日本，猜猜是谁？看看这些图片
This is not a hotel
这不是旅馆
Is this congress building? No, this is just our county office
这是国会建筑吗？不，这是我们的乡镇办公室
This is not a museum
这不是博物馆
Do they need two of them?
他们需要建两座吗？
Look how good they are! I'm sure our officials will serve people better
看看多么华丽啊，我相信我们的官员会更好的为人民服务
Let a few people get rich first, we are rich now
让一部分人先富，我们现在富裕了
Don't forget our generals! They are working hard to defend the country
不要忘了我们的将军，他们在很努力的保卫国家
The very threat to China is her corrupted government. China can not be defeat unless from within and history has been proving it again and again. Our bright future could be doomed unless China can correct this deadly cancer which is result from a system without check and balance
中国真正的威胁是她腐败的政府，中国不会被打败除非内部毁掉自己，历史已经一再证明这一点了。我们的未来可能会完蛋，除非中国改变这种由没有监督和平衡的制度引起的致命的癌症。That's how they treat normal people
他们就是这样对待普通人的
Look at them, do they look like good guy?
看看他们，他们看起来像是好人吗？
That's why they are hated
这就是为什么他们被仇恨？

中国人badguy2000回复：
well,kickock,when did you moved to North America? are you born in 1975?
I think you are one of such guys who was born before 1980 and moved out of CHina before 2000.
I found it a common "instinct" for guys like you to attribute all unfairs in CHinese society to the "evil CCP".
the proper nickname for the guys like you is "体制党“. 动不动就是”只差两个人了“。你远�� �国内太久了，你的观点也还停留在一� ��十年前的中国。简而言之，你已经是 ”奥特曼"了！
guy, you are away from the country for too long and out of the mainstream of CHinese society..........it will be a hard job for you to find Victor Chen and Broad Wu
kickok同学，你什么时候移民到北美的？你是1975年出生的吗？
我觉得你是出生去1980年代前并且在2000年前离开中国的人
我发现一个通例，像你这样的一类人总喜欢把当前中国的不公平归结于“邪恶tg”
这一类人的外号是“体制党”，动不动就只差两个人了，你远离国内太久了，你现在的观点还停留在十年前的中国，简而言之，你已经是“奥特曼”了

印度人回复：
who are they and what are this building ?
他们是谁？他们建的这是什么？

tony4562回复：
Chinese government is for sure corrupt, but this forum is not the most suitable place to discuss about that.
Another thing, the uniformed ones appearing in the last few pictures are not from the PLA or the police, they are from the City Urban Administrative and Law Enforcement Bureau
中国政府肯定是腐败了，但是这个论坛不适合讨论这些问题
另外，最后一张图片里穿制服的不是PLA也不是警察，他们是城管

中国人badguy2000回复：
it is called "Chengguan".
Indeed, "Chengguan" is quite disreputable among common people,but it is stupid to dismiss "chengguan" abruptly. If "Chengguan" were abolished abruptly, CHinese cities would be as messed as Indian's cities.
it is always quite cheap to bash the unfairs of the current unperfect society,but it is always quite hard to design a feasible and better system to replace the current unperfect system
他们被称作“城管”
确实，城管在普通人心中的形象确实很差，但是完全取消城管也是不行的，如果没有了城管，中国的城市会像印度一样混乱
宣传当前的社会的不公是相当容易的，但是想寻找一个新的模式来取代当前的这种不完美的社会也是相当困难的。

中国楼主kickok2000回复：
Badguy2000, I'm not in disconnecting mode with China. I'm in China every year witness her development and growing problem. I don’t like to hide my head in the sands. Since in this forum there are numerous threads about China’s growing power and military, I feel it’s necessary to show people another side of China. A side that is behind our exciting outside appearance that is currently rotting.
Don’t you think they are real enemy and threat to China?
Badguy2000同志，我每年都在中国目睹她的发展和种种问题，我不想把头埋进沙子里，既然这个论坛里有很多关于中国不断增长的力量和军事的话题，我觉得像人们展示一下中国的另一面很有必要，一个藏在我们华丽的外表后面的另一面。
你不觉得那些问题就是我们真正的敌人和威胁吗？

中国人nimo回复：
Totally agree with you BG.
That is the attitude we should have while facing all the problems in China. Be critical and more importantly, be constructive. Being critical is the easiest thing to do, you just open your big mouth and can be a very good critic. But being constructive, you need to act, doing is always harder than talking. It will be disastrous for a country to have too many people indulging in criticising, while too little people dedicating to acting
完全同意你的说法，badguy2000同志
这就是我们面对种种问题的中国所应该持有的态度。学会批评，但更重要的是，要有建设性。批评是最容易做到的，你只要张张嘴就能成为一个很好的批评家。但是说到建设性，你必须行动，做往往比说难。一个国家拥有只会批评而缺失付出实质行动的人将是灾难性的。

印度人回复；
I can't see the pictures
我看不到图片

中国楼主kickok2000回复：
Then you should do something, Nimo. I think most Chinese are afraid of criticizing government's wrongdoings in the first place, let alone the actions. It's understandable though
Nimo同志，那你就应该做点什么了，我认为大多数中国人并不敢批评中国政府的错误，更不要说行动了。

Ray回复：
chengguan means Monk, right?
How will abolishing them make Chinese cities like the Indian cities?
城管的意思是Monk，对吗？
取消城管怎么会让中国的城市变得像印度的城市一样？

Pmatir回复：
kickok,
Can't see the pictures. Could you please check?
Thanks
kickok同志，
我看不到图片，你能再检查一下吗
谢谢

中国楼主kickok2000回复：
I deleted my pictures, because I still want to live in China
我把图片删除了，因为我还想继续生活在中国

Justforlauhg回复：
most recent example.
Violent rabbit cartoon skewers China's injustice
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/ap/201101...t-bb10fb8.html
最近的一个例子：
邪恶卡通兔子影射中国的不公平
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/ap/201101...t-bb10fb8.html

ohimalaya回复：
Kickoff, I love your exposing another side of China -- like those pics - luxurious government bldgs, and tough law enforcement.
but why did u delete them? those pics are already available on many Chinese sites. why are u frightened? is China today getting more and more tolerant ?
that 1st gvnmt bldg. of your pics as splendid as " White House", looks like Shunde District Adm Bldg. of Foshan City,where I've stayed. U can't call anything of that 'corrption‘, bearing in mind Shunde is one of the richest in China.
Even now China is not as democratic or free, or clean as India, I'm glad she's in the right direction as a runner-up
Kickok同志，对你向我们展示中国的另一面很喜欢，就像图片里展示的，奢华的政府，糟糕的法制
但是你为什么要删除那些图片呢？这些图片在中国的网站上都是能够找到的，你为什么会害怕？今天的中国越来越残暴了吗？
图片里像是“白宫”的建筑是在佛山顺德，一个我曾经待过的城市，你不能把什么都说成是腐败，记住顺德是中国最富有的地方之一
虽然今天的中国并不是那样的民主自由，或者是像印度那样清廉，但是我很高兴她正在向正确的方向前进。

warrtreme回复：
i would like to see those pictures back kickock
i didnt see them last time
kickok同志，我想看看图片
我上次没看到

jpreveen回复：
I value his security more so I won't demand him to post those photos back
我觉得他的安全更重要，还是不要要求他发图片了吧

ray回复：
I want to see it.
I don't live in China!
我想看那些图片
我没有生活在中国

ray回复：
Try one and criticise Hu or Wen, even here.
And let us see how long you last in China and if you are abroad, how you return
你批评一下胡或者温试试，即使是在这里
然后就看看你在中国能待多久，如果你在国外，看看你怎么回去。

ray对ohimalaya的回复：
OK.
Why don't you put those pictures yourself?
That will show how liberal all is in China.
We are curious!
The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say in the English language.
India is not clean and we have no hesitation in saying so, since that is the truth!
好啊
你自己为什么不敢贴那些图片呢？
就是要看看中国有多么自由
我们很好奇
就像英语里说的，拿出证据来嘛
印度并不清廉，我们从不迟疑说出这些，因为事实如此

ernesre回复：
Dont worry you can stay in India and say all sorts of things without worrying
不用担心，你可以留在印度，这里说啥话都不用怕。

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=18464&page=1