歼10为什么不是双三角翼？

在我印象中双三角翼=半吊子边条翼， 边条翼=半吊子近耦鸭翼。理解若不对望大家指正。

歼十的翼型是综合各项要求的最优化了

涡的混合作用当时还不是很清楚，风洞资料少。
双三+鸭翼已经接近宋总边条鸭翼的设想了……这属于4代气动技术……

当年F-16也有一个双三角翼的试验机还是计划？
http://www.strange-mecha.com/aircraft/Delta/D-Delta.htm

zhang3wood 发表于 2009-11-20 21:06
这个是当年开发的f16战斗轰炸型后来败给了f15e  双三角翼的j10据说当年有 后来技术难度大放弃了关键是现有气动布局已经满足需要！！

三角翼设计让中国歼10蜕变为隐身多功能战轰机：http://junshipinglun123.blog.china.com/200903/4520894.html

我觉得J10的那个变弯度的机翼构型其实就是一种双三角翼，只是不好看出来而已

dengsiyuan 发表于 2009-11-20 21:21
那是个前沿襟翼吧？

楼主，F-16XL那叫弯箭翼，双三角翼的是J-7G……

回复可见去死 发表于 2009-11-20 21:24
八一表演队的J-7EB是什么翼型？

F-16XL (Ship #1)  NASA's single-seat F-16XL (ship #1), tail number 849, is stationed at Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA. It arrived at Dryden in March 1989, from General Dynamics in Fort Worth, TX. and was retired in April of 2009.

The F-16XL aircraft were built by General Dynamics Corp. as prototypes for a derivative fighter evaluation program conducted by the Air Force between 1982 and 1985. The aircraft were developed from basic F-16 airframes. The most notable difference is the delta (cranked arrow) wing that gives the aircraft a greater range because of increased fuel capacity in the wing tanks, and a larger load capability due to increased wing area.

The single-seat F-16XL aircraft is powered by a Pratt and Whitney F100-PW-200 engine (with afterburner), rated at 23,830 lb thrust, and features an analog fly-by-wire electronic flight control system (upgraded with a new Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) in 1997). The DFCS upgrade allowed NASA's F-16XL-1 the flexibility needed to perform experiments which required major new flight control functions or capabilities. The delta (cranked arrow) wings provide strength for high wing loads during flight. The aircraft's dimensions are: length, 54 ft 2 in (16.51 m); wingspan, 34 ft 3 in (10.45 m); height at vertical tail, 17 ft 7 in (5.36 m). The aircraft's maximum weight is 48,000 lb (17915.60 kg). It has a design load of 9 g's (3 g's, in the research configuration) and a top design speed of Mach 1.8.

双三角翼很好吗？{:cha:}

歼-8？双三角翼，如果讲低空代速性能，当然会比三角翼本身好。
NASA的飞翼，与三角翼有相似的原理吧？

双三角翼很好吗？
veritas 发表于 2009-11-20 21:44

歼-8？双三角翼，如果讲低空代速性能，当然会比三角翼本身好。
NASA的飞翼，与三角翼有相似的原理吧？

双三角翼起码自带气动扭转。。。

ef22000 发表于 2009-11-20 21:51
偶一真没有搞明白，“气动扭转”是什么效果，有什么性能？科普科普

J-10的发动机比其它在役的现代三角翼战斗机强劲。虽然双发战斗机如“阵风”、“台风”的总推力超过单台AL-31FN，但J-10较轻，推重比会优于它们。

吐。。。。。

zhang3wood 发表于 2009-11-20 21:46


    苏15D

F-16XL那个可不是双三角，那是箭形翼

比较形象地说吧，打个比方：
    在立体空间将机翼背部气流方向向纵向（飞行员左右侧）撕开，进一步降低飞机机翼背部的气压，使得机翼上下压力差进一步加大而提升升力。

偶一真没有搞明白，“气动扭转”是什么效果，有什么性能？科普科普
zhang3wood 发表于 2009-11-20 21:53

比较形象地说吧，打个比方：
    在立体空间将机翼背部气流方向向纵向（飞行员左右侧）撕开，进一步降低飞机机翼背部的气压，使得机翼上下压力差进一步加大而提升升力。

ef22000 发表于 2009-11-20 21:58
提高升力的用途，明白了。LAVI也有气动扭转。

如果使用7E那样的双三角翼,不好说和鸭翼配合怎样,起码高速性能要下降,7E换三角翼,速度由M2.1降为M1.8

第二个三角在远端（左右，横向尺寸），与鸭翼远着呢，我相信影响较小。这样的话说不定真能飞到165km/h了。可以在双座教练机上改改试试看！

孩童们怎么还搞不清楚“翼型”究竟是个什么概念~~~杯具啊~~~

拒绝被忽悠,更不能脱了裤子放屁.

fx15 发表于 2009-11-20 22:37
曾经有人写过一个贴子，说双三角翼+鸭翼将是超级机动战轰机。也有这个可能！

回复 14# zhang3wood


    不是J8，是苏15

歼7的机动性堪比F16？取笑……

zhang3wood 发表于 2009-11-20 23:22
是不是要把10的翼尖加宽，形成双三角？加翼尖挂架，增加挂架数，强调对地？

F-7MG（F-7P）肯定比不了F-16的，这个不能乱:D:D:D
不是机动性，是指综合性能接近F-16吧。我找找原文给你看：

F-7MG Flight Trials by Pakistan Air Force

Gp Capt Kaiser Tufail and Wg Cdr Jamshed Khan (both now Air Cdres) were detailed to test fly the F-7MG (later known as F-7PG in PAF service) in July 1997.  A total of 12 sorties were planned in which the complete flight regime was to be explored, with particular focus on the improvements in performance of the already in-service F-7P.  A similar number of sorties were to be flown after a few months, when the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger was ready.

Soon after arrival in Chengdu, the wet tropical weather of Southern China made it quite obvious that the flight trials would take longer than expected.  Two other unusual challenges were the language barrier and the issue of finding enough airspace over non-populated areas.  Chengdu is one of China’s largest metropolitan centres and is located in Sichuan Province, which happens to have the country’s densest population per acre.  In such environments, supersonic flights as well as low-level max-Q trials left no room for area violation in the narrow sliver that had been allocated for flight trials.  The pilots had also been told that their departure back home could be delayed in case the adjacent Chengdu International Airport were ever to lodge an air violation.  The hint was well registered!

PAF’s evaluation was the first by a prospective foreign customer, although the aircraft had accumulated almost 10,000 hours in the PLAAF since its induction in late 1995.

Major Improvements
The F-7MG airframe has essentially the same F-7P fuselage, inner wing portion, tail plane and fin.  The outer wing section incorporates the major change, with a reduced 42° sweep and automatic manoeuvring flaps.  The F-7MG is powered with an improved and more powerful WP-13 engine, which is also operational on the      F-7III (Chinese version of the MiG-21MF).  Additionally, cockpit layout, avionics and several ancillary systems have been changed, in line with modern trends.  The important systems that remain unchanged (compared to the F-7P) are the fuel system, weapons payload capacity and internal guns.

Double Delta Wings

Like the Su-15, the Draken J-35, as well as the more modern X-31 post-stall manoeuvring demonstrator, the F-7MG has a double-delta wing planform, which offers an excellent solution to a slender delta’s inherent low aspect ratio problem.  The aspect ratio of conventional deltas is, at best, of the order of about 2.4, with the low end notched up, surprisingly, by India’s LCA; at 1.75 it stands behind the bat-winged double-delta Saab Draken, whose very low aspect ratio of 1.8 was considered to be a convenient remedy to the transonic CP shift, albeit at the expense of overall aerodynamic efficiency.

ASPECT RATIO & AERODYNAMIC EFFICIENCY

Creating lift in an aircraft incurs an unavoidable penalty in the form of induced drag.  Aerodynamic efficiency is achieved by designing a wing that produces maximum lift for the least drag.  This is done by having a high ‘aspect ratio,’ which is the ratio of the square of the wingspan to the wing area.  Since induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio, greater the wingspan, lower the induced drag.  A high aspect ratio is thus an important factor in combat, as it helps in sustaining turn rates.  High aspect ratio also improves endurance and ceiling and, shortens take-off/landing distances.

As fighters become faster, their aspect ratios have to be reduced to minimise supersonic wave drag.  This is done by presenting a smaller frontal area to the supersonic airflow with the help of a smaller wingspan, besides other profile streamlining techniques.  It can thus be seen that the conflicting requirements of high-speed flight and subsonic manoeuvring flight have a bearing on the aspect ratio and, compromises invariably result.  



Wingtip stalling has never been an issue on the F-7P, but the double delta wing brings with it an added bonus in this respect.  The strong vortex of the inner wing re-energises the boundary layer of the outer wing, preventing span-wise flow towards the tips.  This allows even more-carefree manoeuvring at ultra-low speeds.

Testing the Wings

On the first take-off, it was evident that the aircraft was impatient to get off the ground and had to be held down to prevent it getting airborne prematurely.  Compared to the F-7P’s take-off speed of 310 kph, the MG lifted off at 280 kph with ease and the advertised 35% improvement in take-off distance was on the mark.  The sight of the auto-manoeuvring flaps at work reminded the pilots of the F-16’s computer-controlled leading edge devices.  Packaging the servo motors and actuators within the thin leading edge without the tell-tale bulges has certainly been a marvel of engineering at Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).

The feel of the aircraft was smooth in all domains, none more so than in transonic flight.  As expected, CP shift was minimal and both the test pilots were unanimous about the decrease in stick forces.  Transonic being an important combat flight regime, this is a welcome improvement.

A good measure of a wing’s lifting efficiency is at high alpha, a regime that the PAF pilots have learnt to perform in almost as an art form.  What better than to pace the MG through a slow speed loop?  Normally, a safe entry speed for a loop would be between 800-900 kph (at 15,000 AMSL) on the F-7P.  In the absence of any guidelines on a slower version of the manoeuvre, it was decided to try 700 kph at first.  The MG went through smoothly without any hint of judder or slip at the top.  With full faith in the leading edge flaps, the next loop was performed at 600 kph.  Again, the same results were achieved and the aircraft went through a perfect loop without any jitter or judder.  At lower altitudes it might do even slower and better, but airspace limitations at Chengdu did not permit low level aerobatics.



Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail gives a thumbs-up before an evaluation sortie (top left) and talks with CATIC engineers (bottom left) after a sortie.

Pictures Courtesy: Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail



Several flights followed the first check of the aircraft’s aerodynamic efficiency.  It was a most pleasant surprise to note that the turn rates were nearer to the F-16 at medium to high altitudes and, were exactly as advertised.  A 33% improvement over the F-7P at 5,000’ AMSL, 50% at 10,000’ and 66% at 20,000 would certainly call for an end to the “supersonic sports plane” sobriquet that dogged its forerunners.

The results of the flight trials were so encouraging that the test pilots were tempted to simulate a flamed-out engine landing pattern, a not very ‘done’ thing on delta-winged fighters.  While the Chinese manuals suggested a rectangular pattern that can put one’s judgement and nerves to test, the standard overhead spiral pattern was tried out initially from a high-key height of 15,000’ AGL.  With engine idling and speed brakes out to simulate a dead engine, the aircraft glided much like the F-16, so after a few approaches, the high key height was lowered to12,000’ AGL.  The sink rate was well under control and, in fact was so well manageable that all later sorties were terminated through practice dead-engine approaches.  At 1:8.5, the glide ratio compares favourably with some of the modern Western fighters.

Landings on the F-7MG could be made at 270 kph, compared to about 290 kph on the  F-7P.  The test pilots felt that the speed could be lowered further, were it not for the length of the gear struts, which are not long enough to allow a higher nose attitude.  Hydraulic brakes, though still hand-held (like those on a bicycle handle-bar), were very effective and, the unlimited braking facility was a welcome improvement over the  bled-off pneumatics of the F-7P.

New Engine

The WP-13 engine of the F-7MG produces 1,200 lbs of more thrust than the F-7P’s WP-7, giving it a thrust-to-weight ratio of about .9 compared to .8 of the latter in clean take-off configuration.  A 50% improvement in spool-up time is a welcome feature, particularly on final approach and landing where a sudden gust of wind has resulted in many a tail scrape on the F-7P.  Go-arounds are also prompt and a bad landing is actually a thing of the past on the MG. Use of titanium alloys in compressor blades and an increased TBO are indicators of improvements in Chinese jet-engine technology.

The thrust increase was evidenced by a 25% improvement in acceleration time from 500 kph to 1100 kph and an equally impressive time-to-climb to 36,000’ AMSL.  All improvements were verified and were found to be as advertised or even better.  Even more remarkable was the fact that these trials took place in hot and humid weather, well outside the 15°C, 1013 hP environments in which the specifications are usually engineered.

Miscellaneous Systems

The F-7MG has several modern avionics upgrades.  These include a Stores Management System, which is essentially a useful cockpit-pilot interface to help establish the status of stores including configuration, fusing and weapon codes etc.  A voice warning system, colour video recorder, elaborate cockpit lighting and a more precise and jitter–free AOA probe are nice-to-have improvements.  The colour EFIS includes two displays, one for the attitude and the other for the heading and navigation sub-systems like ADF, VOR, TACAN, ILS etc.

The PAF pilots used to advanced cockpits like the F-16 were quick to point out several ergonomic improvements and had detailed discussions with CAC design bureau.  Switchology changes and relocation of several instruments led to a much improved cockpit; it has been suggested in a lighter vein that a nomenclature change to F-7PG2 might just be in order.  (‘G’ incidentally stands for ‘gai’, meaning ‘improved’ in Chinese.)

Radar

The F-7MG was originally designed to have the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger.  At the time of initial PAF trials the radar was not ready.  Trials were held again several months later after the prototype radar was installed.  In the event the radar did not come up to PAF specifications and GEC-Marconi was not able to surmount the problems associated with the small nose cone, including antenna size and equipment air-conditioning which was insufficient.

The PAF eventually retrofitted their F-7Ps and F-7PGs with the FIAR Grifo-7.  To say that miniaturisation technology is at its best in this marvellous Italian radar would be an understatement.  An excellent pulse Doppler radar with respectable ranges and a medium order azimuth and elevation scan, the system is married to the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder, making it a lethal combination.

FT-7PG

CAC did not design a double-delta version of the F-7MG.  On PAF’s request, the existing FT-7P cockpit was redesigned on lines of the PG to ensure standardisation and the resultant dual seater was re-designated FT-7PG.

Analysis

The F-7MG has considerably improved subsonic and transonic flight performance.  Coupled with excellent turning capability and acceleration, the combat potential is enhanced tremendously.  The Grifo-7/AIM-9L combination on board PAF’s F-7PG brings the aircraft much closer to the F-16 in close combat capabilities and the PAF must be credited with extracting the maximum from an innovatively redesigned low-cost fighter.

歼7的机动性堪比F16？取笑……
jiandingzhe 发表于 2009-11-21 00:18

F-7MG（F-7P）肯定比不了F-16的，这个不能乱:D:D:D
不是机动性，是指综合性能接近F-16吧。我找找原文给你看：

F-7MG Flight Trials by Pakistan Air Force

Gp Capt Kaiser Tufail and Wg Cdr Jamshed Khan (both now Air Cdres) were detailed to test fly the F-7MG (later known as F-7PG in PAF service) in July 1997.  A total of 12 sorties were planned in which the complete flight regime was to be explored, with particular focus on the improvements in performance of the already in-service F-7P.  A similar number of sorties were to be flown after a few months, when the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger was ready.

Soon after arrival in Chengdu, the wet tropical weather of Southern China made it quite obvious that the flight trials would take longer than expected.  Two other unusual challenges were the language barrier and the issue of finding enough airspace over non-populated areas.  Chengdu is one of China’s largest metropolitan centres and is located in Sichuan Province, which happens to have the country’s densest population per acre.  In such environments, supersonic flights as well as low-level max-Q trials left no room for area violation in the narrow sliver that had been allocated for flight trials.  The pilots had also been told that their departure back home could be delayed in case the adjacent Chengdu International Airport were ever to lodge an air violation.  The hint was well registered!

PAF’s evaluation was the first by a prospective foreign customer, although the aircraft had accumulated almost 10,000 hours in the PLAAF since its induction in late 1995.

Major Improvements
The F-7MG airframe has essentially the same F-7P fuselage, inner wing portion, tail plane and fin.  The outer wing section incorporates the major change, with a reduced 42° sweep and automatic manoeuvring flaps.  The F-7MG is powered with an improved and more powerful WP-13 engine, which is also operational on the      F-7III (Chinese version of the MiG-21MF).  Additionally, cockpit layout, avionics and several ancillary systems have been changed, in line with modern trends.  The important systems that remain unchanged (compared to the F-7P) are the fuel system, weapons payload capacity and internal guns.

Double Delta Wings

Like the Su-15, the Draken J-35, as well as the more modern X-31 post-stall manoeuvring demonstrator, the F-7MG has a double-delta wing planform, which offers an excellent solution to a slender delta’s inherent low aspect ratio problem.  The aspect ratio of conventional deltas is, at best, of the order of about 2.4, with the low end notched up, surprisingly, by India’s LCA; at 1.75 it stands behind the bat-winged double-delta Saab Draken, whose very low aspect ratio of 1.8 was considered to be a convenient remedy to the transonic CP shift, albeit at the expense of overall aerodynamic efficiency.

ASPECT RATIO & AERODYNAMIC EFFICIENCY

Creating lift in an aircraft incurs an unavoidable penalty in the form of induced drag.  Aerodynamic efficiency is achieved by designing a wing that produces maximum lift for the least drag.  This is done by having a high ‘aspect ratio,’ which is the ratio of the square of the wingspan to the wing area.  Since induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio, greater the wingspan, lower the induced drag.  A high aspect ratio is thus an important factor in combat, as it helps in sustaining turn rates.  High aspect ratio also improves endurance and ceiling and, shortens take-off/landing distances.

As fighters become faster, their aspect ratios have to be reduced to minimise supersonic wave drag.  This is done by presenting a smaller frontal area to the supersonic airflow with the help of a smaller wingspan, besides other profile streamlining techniques.  It can thus be seen that the conflicting requirements of high-speed flight and subsonic manoeuvring flight have a bearing on the aspect ratio and, compromises invariably result.  



Wingtip stalling has never been an issue on the F-7P, but the double delta wing brings with it an added bonus in this respect.  The strong vortex of the inner wing re-energises the boundary layer of the outer wing, preventing span-wise flow towards the tips.  This allows even more-carefree manoeuvring at ultra-low speeds.

Testing the Wings

On the first take-off, it was evident that the aircraft was impatient to get off the ground and had to be held down to prevent it getting airborne prematurely.  Compared to the F-7P’s take-off speed of 310 kph, the MG lifted off at 280 kph with ease and the advertised 35% improvement in take-off distance was on the mark.  The sight of the auto-manoeuvring flaps at work reminded the pilots of the F-16’s computer-controlled leading edge devices.  Packaging the servo motors and actuators within the thin leading edge without the tell-tale bulges has certainly been a marvel of engineering at Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).

The feel of the aircraft was smooth in all domains, none more so than in transonic flight.  As expected, CP shift was minimal and both the test pilots were unanimous about the decrease in stick forces.  Transonic being an important combat flight regime, this is a welcome improvement.

A good measure of a wing’s lifting efficiency is at high alpha, a regime that the PAF pilots have learnt to perform in almost as an art form.  What better than to pace the MG through a slow speed loop?  Normally, a safe entry speed for a loop would be between 800-900 kph (at 15,000 AMSL) on the F-7P.  In the absence of any guidelines on a slower version of the manoeuvre, it was decided to try 700 kph at first.  The MG went through smoothly without any hint of judder or slip at the top.  With full faith in the leading edge flaps, the next loop was performed at 600 kph.  Again, the same results were achieved and the aircraft went through a perfect loop without any jitter or judder.  At lower altitudes it might do even slower and better, but airspace limitations at Chengdu did not permit low level aerobatics.



Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail gives a thumbs-up before an evaluation sortie (top left) and talks with CATIC engineers (bottom left) after a sortie.

Pictures Courtesy: Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail



Several flights followed the first check of the aircraft’s aerodynamic efficiency.  It was a most pleasant surprise to note that the turn rates were nearer to the F-16 at medium to high altitudes and, were exactly as advertised.  A 33% improvement over the F-7P at 5,000’ AMSL, 50% at 10,000’ and 66% at 20,000 would certainly call for an end to the “supersonic sports plane” sobriquet that dogged its forerunners.

The results of the flight trials were so encouraging that the test pilots were tempted to simulate a flamed-out engine landing pattern, a not very ‘done’ thing on delta-winged fighters.  While the Chinese manuals suggested a rectangular pattern that can put one’s judgement and nerves to test, the standard overhead spiral pattern was tried out initially from a high-key height of 15,000’ AGL.  With engine idling and speed brakes out to simulate a dead engine, the aircraft glided much like the F-16, so after a few approaches, the high key height was lowered to12,000’ AGL.  The sink rate was well under control and, in fact was so well manageable that all later sorties were terminated through practice dead-engine approaches.  At 1:8.5, the glide ratio compares favourably with some of the modern Western fighters.

Landings on the F-7MG could be made at 270 kph, compared to about 290 kph on the  F-7P.  The test pilots felt that the speed could be lowered further, were it not for the length of the gear struts, which are not long enough to allow a higher nose attitude.  Hydraulic brakes, though still hand-held (like those on a bicycle handle-bar), were very effective and, the unlimited braking facility was a welcome improvement over the  bled-off pneumatics of the F-7P.

New Engine

The WP-13 engine of the F-7MG produces 1,200 lbs of more thrust than the F-7P’s WP-7, giving it a thrust-to-weight ratio of about .9 compared to .8 of the latter in clean take-off configuration.  A 50% improvement in spool-up time is a welcome feature, particularly on final approach and landing where a sudden gust of wind has resulted in many a tail scrape on the F-7P.  Go-arounds are also prompt and a bad landing is actually a thing of the past on the MG. Use of titanium alloys in compressor blades and an increased TBO are indicators of improvements in Chinese jet-engine technology.

The thrust increase was evidenced by a 25% improvement in acceleration time from 500 kph to 1100 kph and an equally impressive time-to-climb to 36,000’ AMSL.  All improvements were verified and were found to be as advertised or even better.  Even more remarkable was the fact that these trials took place in hot and humid weather, well outside the 15°C, 1013 hP environments in which the specifications are usually engineered.

Miscellaneous Systems

The F-7MG has several modern avionics upgrades.  These include a Stores Management System, which is essentially a useful cockpit-pilot interface to help establish the status of stores including configuration, fusing and weapon codes etc.  A voice warning system, colour video recorder, elaborate cockpit lighting and a more precise and jitter–free AOA probe are nice-to-have improvements.  The colour EFIS includes two displays, one for the attitude and the other for the heading and navigation sub-systems like ADF, VOR, TACAN, ILS etc.

The PAF pilots used to advanced cockpits like the F-16 were quick to point out several ergonomic improvements and had detailed discussions with CAC design bureau.  Switchology changes and relocation of several instruments led to a much improved cockpit; it has been suggested in a lighter vein that a nomenclature change to F-7PG2 might just be in order.  (‘G’ incidentally stands for ‘gai’, meaning ‘improved’ in Chinese.)

Radar

The F-7MG was originally designed to have the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger.  At the time of initial PAF trials the radar was not ready.  Trials were held again several months later after the prototype radar was installed.  In the event the radar did not come up to PAF specifications and GEC-Marconi was not able to surmount the problems associated with the small nose cone, including antenna size and equipment air-conditioning which was insufficient.

The PAF eventually retrofitted their F-7Ps and F-7PGs with the FIAR Grifo-7.  To say that miniaturisation technology is at its best in this marvellous Italian radar would be an understatement.  An excellent pulse Doppler radar with respectable ranges and a medium order azimuth and elevation scan, the system is married to the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder, making it a lethal combination.

FT-7PG

CAC did not design a double-delta version of the F-7MG.  On PAF’s request, the existing FT-7P cockpit was redesigned on lines of the PG to ensure standardisation and the resultant dual seater was re-designated FT-7PG.

Analysis

The F-7MG has considerably improved subsonic and transonic flight performance.  Coupled with excellent turning capability and acceleration, the combat potential is enhanced tremendously.  The Grifo-7/AIM-9L combination on board PAF’s F-7PG brings the aircraft much closer to the F-16 in close combat capabilities and the PAF must be credited with extracting the maximum from an innovatively redesigned low-cost fighter.

肯定不能比，是巴飞飞F-7MG双三角翼改型后性能提高很多，接近F-16的能力：

F-7MG Flight Trials by Pakistan Air Force

Gp Capt Kaiser Tufail and Wg Cdr Jamshed Khan (both now Air Cdres) were detailed to test fly the F-7MG (later known as F-7PG in PAF service) in July 1997.  A total of 12 sorties were planned in which the complete flight regime was to be explored, with particular focus on the improvements in performance of the already in-service F-7P.  A similar number of sorties were to be flown after a few months, when the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger was ready.

Soon after arrival in Chengdu, the wet tropical weather of Southern China made it quite obvious that the flight trials would take longer than expected.  Two other unusual challenges were the language barrier and the issue of finding enough airspace over non-populated areas.  Chengdu is one of China’s largest metropolitan centres and is located in Sichuan Province, which happens to have the country’s densest population per acre.  In such environments, supersonic flights as well as low-level max-Q trials left no room for area violation in the narrow sliver that had been allocated for flight trials.  The pilots had also been told that their departure back home could be delayed in case the adjacent Chengdu International Airport were ever to lodge an air violation.  The hint was well registered!

PAF’s evaluation was the first by a prospective foreign customer, although the aircraft had accumulated almost 10,000 hours in the PLAAF since its induction in late 1995.

Major Improvements
The F-7MG airframe has essentially the same F-7P fuselage, inner wing portion, tail plane and fin.  The outer wing section incorporates the major change, with a reduced 42° sweep and automatic manoeuvring flaps.  The F-7MG is powered with an improved and more powerful WP-13 engine, which is also operational on the      F-7III (Chinese version of the MiG-21MF).  Additionally, cockpit layout, avionics and several ancillary systems have been changed, in line with modern trends.  The important systems that remain unchanged (compared to the F-7P) are the fuel system, weapons payload capacity and internal guns.

Double Delta Wings

Like the Su-15, the Draken J-35, as well as the more modern X-31 post-stall manoeuvring demonstrator, the F-7MG has a double-delta wing planform, which offers an excellent solution to a slender delta’s inherent low aspect ratio problem.  The aspect ratio of conventional deltas is, at best, of the order of about 2.4, with the low end notched up, surprisingly, by India’s LCA; at 1.75 it stands behind the bat-winged double-delta Saab Draken, whose very low aspect ratio of 1.8 was considered to be a convenient remedy to the transonic CP shift, albeit at the expense of overall aerodynamic efficiency.

ASPECT RATIO & AERODYNAMIC EFFICIENCY

Creating lift in an aircraft incurs an unavoidable penalty in the form of induced drag.  Aerodynamic efficiency is achieved by designing a wing that produces maximum lift for the least drag.  This is done by having a high ‘aspect ratio,’ which is the ratio of the square of the wingspan to the wing area.  Since induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio, greater the wingspan, lower the induced drag.  A high aspect ratio is thus an important factor in combat, as it helps in sustaining turn rates.  High aspect ratio also improves endurance and ceiling and, shortens take-off/landing distances.

As fighters become faster, their aspect ratios have to be reduced to minimise supersonic wave drag.  This is done by presenting a smaller frontal area to the supersonic airflow with the help of a smaller wingspan, besides other profile streamlining techniques.  It can thus be seen that the conflicting requirements of high-speed flight and subsonic manoeuvring flight have a bearing on the aspect ratio and, compromises invariably result.  



Wingtip stalling has never been an issue on the F-7P, but the double delta wing brings with it an added bonus in this respect.  The strong vortex of the inner wing re-energises the boundary layer of the outer wing, preventing span-wise flow towards the tips.  This allows even more-carefree manoeuvring at ultra-low speeds.

Testing the Wings

On the first take-off, it was evident that the aircraft was impatient to get off the ground and had to be held down to prevent it getting airborne prematurely.  Compared to the F-7P’s take-off speed of 310 kph, the MG lifted off at 280 kph with ease and the advertised 35% improvement in take-off distance was on the mark.  The sight of the auto-manoeuvring flaps at work reminded the pilots of the F-16’s computer-controlled leading edge devices.  Packaging the servo motors and actuators within the thin leading edge without the tell-tale bulges has certainly been a marvel of engineering at Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).

The feel of the aircraft was smooth in all domains, none more so than in transonic flight.  As expected, CP shift was minimal and both the test pilots were unanimous about the decrease in stick forces.  Transonic being an important combat flight regime, this is a welcome improvement.

A good measure of a wing’s lifting efficiency is at high alpha, a regime that the PAF pilots have learnt to perform in almost as an art form.  What better than to pace the MG through a slow speed loop?  Normally, a safe entry speed for a loop would be between 800-900 kph (at 15,000 AMSL) on the F-7P.  In the absence of any guidelines on a slower version of the manoeuvre, it was decided to try 700 kph at first.  The MG went through smoothly without any hint of judder or slip at the top.  With full faith in the leading edge flaps, the next loop was performed at 600 kph.  Again, the same results were achieved and the aircraft went through a perfect loop without any jitter or judder.  At lower altitudes it might do even slower and better, but airspace limitations at Chengdu did not permit low level aerobatics.



Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail gives a thumbs-up before an evaluation sortie (top left) and talks with CATIC engineers (bottom left) after a sortie.

Pictures Courtesy: Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail



Several flights followed the first check of the aircraft’s aerodynamic efficiency.  It was a most pleasant surprise to note that the turn rates were nearer to the F-16 at medium to high altitudes and, were exactly as advertised.  A 33% improvement over the F-7P at 5,000’ AMSL, 50% at 10,000’ and 66% at 20,000 would certainly call for an end to the “supersonic sports plane” sobriquet that dogged its forerunners.

The results of the flight trials were so encouraging that the test pilots were tempted to simulate a flamed-out engine landing pattern, a not very ‘done’ thing on delta-winged fighters.  While the Chinese manuals suggested a rectangular pattern that can put one’s judgement and nerves to test, the standard overhead spiral pattern was tried out initially from a high-key height of 15,000’ AGL.  With engine idling and speed brakes out to simulate a dead engine, the aircraft glided much like the F-16, so after a few approaches, the high key height was lowered to12,000’ AGL.  The sink rate was well under control and, in fact was so well manageable that all later sorties were terminated through practice dead-engine approaches.  At 1:8.5, the glide ratio compares favourably with some of the modern Western fighters.

Landings on the F-7MG could be made at 270 kph, compared to about 290 kph on the  F-7P.  The test pilots felt that the speed could be lowered further, were it not for the length of the gear struts, which are not long enough to allow a higher nose attitude.  Hydraulic brakes, though still hand-held (like those on a bicycle handle-bar), were very effective and, the unlimited braking facility was a welcome improvement over the  bled-off pneumatics of the F-7P.

New Engine

The WP-13 engine of the F-7MG produces 1,200 lbs of more thrust than the F-7P’s WP-7, giving it a thrust-to-weight ratio of about .9 compared to .8 of the latter in clean take-off configuration.  A 50% improvement in spool-up time is a welcome feature, particularly on final approach and landing where a sudden gust of wind has resulted in many a tail scrape on the F-7P.  Go-arounds are also prompt and a bad landing is actually a thing of the past on the MG. Use of titanium alloys in compressor blades and an increased TBO are indicators of improvements in Chinese jet-engine technology.

The thrust increase was evidenced by a 25% improvement in acceleration time from 500 kph to 1100 kph and an equally impressive time-to-climb to 36,000’ AMSL.  All improvements were verified and were found to be as advertised or even better.  Even more remarkable was the fact that these trials took place in hot and humid weather, well outside the 15°C, 1013 hP environments in which the specifications are usually engineered.

Miscellaneous Systems

The F-7MG has several modern avionics upgrades.  These include a Stores Management System, which is essentially a useful cockpit-pilot interface to help establish the status of stores including configuration, fusing and weapon codes etc.  A voice warning system, colour video recorder, elaborate cockpit lighting and a more precise and jitter–free AOA probe are nice-to-have improvements.  The colour EFIS includes two displays, one for the attitude and the other for the heading and navigation sub-systems like ADF, VOR, TACAN, ILS etc.

The PAF pilots used to advanced cockpits like the F-16 were quick to point out several ergonomic improvements and had detailed discussions with CAC design bureau.  Switchology changes and relocation of several instruments led to a much improved cockpit; it has been suggested in a lighter vein that a nomenclature change to F-7PG2 might just be in order.  (‘G’ incidentally stands for ‘gai’, meaning ‘improved’ in Chinese.)

Radar

The F-7MG was originally designed to have the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger.  At the time of initial PAF trials the radar was not ready.  Trials were held again several months later after the prototype radar was installed.  In the event the radar did not come up to PAF specifications and GEC-Marconi was not able to surmount the problems associated with the small nose cone, including antenna size and equipment air-conditioning which was insufficient.

The PAF eventually retrofitted their F-7Ps and F-7PGs with the FIAR Grifo-7.  To say that miniaturisation technology is at its best in this marvellous Italian radar would be an understatement.  An excellent pulse Doppler radar with respectable ranges and a medium order azimuth and elevation scan, the system is married to the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder, making it a lethal combination.

FT-7PG

CAC did not design a double-delta version of the F-7MG.  On PAF’s request, the existing FT-7P cockpit was redesigned on lines of the PG to ensure standardisation and the resultant dual seater was re-designated FT-7PG.

Analysis

The F-7MG has considerably improved subsonic and transonic flight performance.  Coupled with excellent turning capability and acceleration, the combat potential is enhanced tremendously.  The Grifo-7/AIM-9L combination on board PAF’s F-7PG brings the aircraft much closer to the F-16 in close combat capabilities and the PAF must be credited with extracting the maximum from an innovatively redesigned low-cost fighter.

歼7的机动性堪比F16？取笑……
jiandingzhe 发表于 2009-11-21 00:18

肯定不能比，是巴飞飞F-7MG双三角翼改型后性能提高很多，接近F-16的能力：

F-7MG Flight Trials by Pakistan Air Force

Gp Capt Kaiser Tufail and Wg Cdr Jamshed Khan (both now Air Cdres) were detailed to test fly the F-7MG (later known as F-7PG in PAF service) in July 1997.  A total of 12 sorties were planned in which the complete flight regime was to be explored, with particular focus on the improvements in performance of the already in-service F-7P.  A similar number of sorties were to be flown after a few months, when the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger was ready.

Soon after arrival in Chengdu, the wet tropical weather of Southern China made it quite obvious that the flight trials would take longer than expected.  Two other unusual challenges were the language barrier and the issue of finding enough airspace over non-populated areas.  Chengdu is one of China’s largest metropolitan centres and is located in Sichuan Province, which happens to have the country’s densest population per acre.  In such environments, supersonic flights as well as low-level max-Q trials left no room for area violation in the narrow sliver that had been allocated for flight trials.  The pilots had also been told that their departure back home could be delayed in case the adjacent Chengdu International Airport were ever to lodge an air violation.  The hint was well registered!

PAF’s evaluation was the first by a prospective foreign customer, although the aircraft had accumulated almost 10,000 hours in the PLAAF since its induction in late 1995.

Major Improvements
The F-7MG airframe has essentially the same F-7P fuselage, inner wing portion, tail plane and fin.  The outer wing section incorporates the major change, with a reduced 42° sweep and automatic manoeuvring flaps.  The F-7MG is powered with an improved and more powerful WP-13 engine, which is also operational on the      F-7III (Chinese version of the MiG-21MF).  Additionally, cockpit layout, avionics and several ancillary systems have been changed, in line with modern trends.  The important systems that remain unchanged (compared to the F-7P) are the fuel system, weapons payload capacity and internal guns.

Double Delta Wings

Like the Su-15, the Draken J-35, as well as the more modern X-31 post-stall manoeuvring demonstrator, the F-7MG has a double-delta wing planform, which offers an excellent solution to a slender delta’s inherent low aspect ratio problem.  The aspect ratio of conventional deltas is, at best, of the order of about 2.4, with the low end notched up, surprisingly, by India’s LCA; at 1.75 it stands behind the bat-winged double-delta Saab Draken, whose very low aspect ratio of 1.8 was considered to be a convenient remedy to the transonic CP shift, albeit at the expense of overall aerodynamic efficiency.

ASPECT RATIO & AERODYNAMIC EFFICIENCY

Creating lift in an aircraft incurs an unavoidable penalty in the form of induced drag.  Aerodynamic efficiency is achieved by designing a wing that produces maximum lift for the least drag.  This is done by having a high ‘aspect ratio,’ which is the ratio of the square of the wingspan to the wing area.  Since induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio, greater the wingspan, lower the induced drag.  A high aspect ratio is thus an important factor in combat, as it helps in sustaining turn rates.  High aspect ratio also improves endurance and ceiling and, shortens take-off/landing distances.

As fighters become faster, their aspect ratios have to be reduced to minimise supersonic wave drag.  This is done by presenting a smaller frontal area to the supersonic airflow with the help of a smaller wingspan, besides other profile streamlining techniques.  It can thus be seen that the conflicting requirements of high-speed flight and subsonic manoeuvring flight have a bearing on the aspect ratio and, compromises invariably result.  



Wingtip stalling has never been an issue on the F-7P, but the double delta wing brings with it an added bonus in this respect.  The strong vortex of the inner wing re-energises the boundary layer of the outer wing, preventing span-wise flow towards the tips.  This allows even more-carefree manoeuvring at ultra-low speeds.

Testing the Wings

On the first take-off, it was evident that the aircraft was impatient to get off the ground and had to be held down to prevent it getting airborne prematurely.  Compared to the F-7P’s take-off speed of 310 kph, the MG lifted off at 280 kph with ease and the advertised 35% improvement in take-off distance was on the mark.  The sight of the auto-manoeuvring flaps at work reminded the pilots of the F-16’s computer-controlled leading edge devices.  Packaging the servo motors and actuators within the thin leading edge without the tell-tale bulges has certainly been a marvel of engineering at Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).

The feel of the aircraft was smooth in all domains, none more so than in transonic flight.  As expected, CP shift was minimal and both the test pilots were unanimous about the decrease in stick forces.  Transonic being an important combat flight regime, this is a welcome improvement.

A good measure of a wing’s lifting efficiency is at high alpha, a regime that the PAF pilots have learnt to perform in almost as an art form.  What better than to pace the MG through a slow speed loop?  Normally, a safe entry speed for a loop would be between 800-900 kph (at 15,000 AMSL) on the F-7P.  In the absence of any guidelines on a slower version of the manoeuvre, it was decided to try 700 kph at first.  The MG went through smoothly without any hint of judder or slip at the top.  With full faith in the leading edge flaps, the next loop was performed at 600 kph.  Again, the same results were achieved and the aircraft went through a perfect loop without any jitter or judder.  At lower altitudes it might do even slower and better, but airspace limitations at Chengdu did not permit low level aerobatics.



Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail gives a thumbs-up before an evaluation sortie (top left) and talks with CATIC engineers (bottom left) after a sortie.

Pictures Courtesy: Air Cdr Kaiser Tufail



Several flights followed the first check of the aircraft’s aerodynamic efficiency.  It was a most pleasant surprise to note that the turn rates were nearer to the F-16 at medium to high altitudes and, were exactly as advertised.  A 33% improvement over the F-7P at 5,000’ AMSL, 50% at 10,000’ and 66% at 20,000 would certainly call for an end to the “supersonic sports plane” sobriquet that dogged its forerunners.

The results of the flight trials were so encouraging that the test pilots were tempted to simulate a flamed-out engine landing pattern, a not very ‘done’ thing on delta-winged fighters.  While the Chinese manuals suggested a rectangular pattern that can put one’s judgement and nerves to test, the standard overhead spiral pattern was tried out initially from a high-key height of 15,000’ AGL.  With engine idling and speed brakes out to simulate a dead engine, the aircraft glided much like the F-16, so after a few approaches, the high key height was lowered to12,000’ AGL.  The sink rate was well under control and, in fact was so well manageable that all later sorties were terminated through practice dead-engine approaches.  At 1:8.5, the glide ratio compares favourably with some of the modern Western fighters.

Landings on the F-7MG could be made at 270 kph, compared to about 290 kph on the  F-7P.  The test pilots felt that the speed could be lowered further, were it not for the length of the gear struts, which are not long enough to allow a higher nose attitude.  Hydraulic brakes, though still hand-held (like those on a bicycle handle-bar), were very effective and, the unlimited braking facility was a welcome improvement over the  bled-off pneumatics of the F-7P.

New Engine

The WP-13 engine of the F-7MG produces 1,200 lbs of more thrust than the F-7P’s WP-7, giving it a thrust-to-weight ratio of about .9 compared to .8 of the latter in clean take-off configuration.  A 50% improvement in spool-up time is a welcome feature, particularly on final approach and landing where a sudden gust of wind has resulted in many a tail scrape on the F-7P.  Go-arounds are also prompt and a bad landing is actually a thing of the past on the MG. Use of titanium alloys in compressor blades and an increased TBO are indicators of improvements in Chinese jet-engine technology.

The thrust increase was evidenced by a 25% improvement in acceleration time from 500 kph to 1100 kph and an equally impressive time-to-climb to 36,000’ AMSL.  All improvements were verified and were found to be as advertised or even better.  Even more remarkable was the fact that these trials took place in hot and humid weather, well outside the 15°C, 1013 hP environments in which the specifications are usually engineered.

Miscellaneous Systems

The F-7MG has several modern avionics upgrades.  These include a Stores Management System, which is essentially a useful cockpit-pilot interface to help establish the status of stores including configuration, fusing and weapon codes etc.  A voice warning system, colour video recorder, elaborate cockpit lighting and a more precise and jitter–free AOA probe are nice-to-have improvements.  The colour EFIS includes two displays, one for the attitude and the other for the heading and navigation sub-systems like ADF, VOR, TACAN, ILS etc.

The PAF pilots used to advanced cockpits like the F-16 were quick to point out several ergonomic improvements and had detailed discussions with CAC design bureau.  Switchology changes and relocation of several instruments led to a much improved cockpit; it has been suggested in a lighter vein that a nomenclature change to F-7PG2 might just be in order.  (‘G’ incidentally stands for ‘gai’, meaning ‘improved’ in Chinese.)

Radar

The F-7MG was originally designed to have the GEC-Marconi Super Skyranger.  At the time of initial PAF trials the radar was not ready.  Trials were held again several months later after the prototype radar was installed.  In the event the radar did not come up to PAF specifications and GEC-Marconi was not able to surmount the problems associated with the small nose cone, including antenna size and equipment air-conditioning which was insufficient.

The PAF eventually retrofitted their F-7Ps and F-7PGs with the FIAR Grifo-7.  To say that miniaturisation technology is at its best in this marvellous Italian radar would be an understatement.  An excellent pulse Doppler radar with respectable ranges and a medium order azimuth and elevation scan, the system is married to the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder, making it a lethal combination.

FT-7PG

CAC did not design a double-delta version of the F-7MG.  On PAF’s request, the existing FT-7P cockpit was redesigned on lines of the PG to ensure standardisation and the resultant dual seater was re-designated FT-7PG.

Analysis

The F-7MG has considerably improved subsonic and transonic flight performance.  Coupled with excellent turning capability and acceleration, the combat potential is enhanced tremendously.  The Grifo-7/AIM-9L combination on board PAF’s F-7PG brings the aircraft much closer to the F-16 in close combat capabilities and the PAF must be credited with extracting the maximum from an innovatively redesigned low-cost fighter.

zhang3wood 发表于 2009-11-21 01:40


综合性能的话，就差得更远了，连棍子都比不上F16。

super_feiyang 发表于 2009-11-21 01:54
不可否认，改双三角翼，对于提升低空机动性能是有很大的好处的。X-31和JAS-35都是吧，SU-15也是一个。

F16XL的箭型翼和歼7E的双三角翼可大不一样啊。

回复 2# 01272064
这点偶同意老大的说法。

回复 26# zhang3wood
如果如此，那么该战轰的航程可能不咋滴---只是可能。

10不能算纯粹的单三角翼吧，扭转很复杂的
当然也不能算双的
不过ms鸭翼和双三角翼的配合。。。

三角翼适合超音速，具有高速性能好，制造简单的特点，但是低空低速性能较差。
所以J10有鸭翼了

追风逐日 发表于 2009-11-21 17:44
感兴趣的是，如果鸭翼加上三角翼的情况是否低空机动性和敏捷性更好。

从气动来来说，鸭翼配双三角翼当然效果更好，但是那样的话机翼背部涡流就复杂了，要求技术更高，所以3代机没赶上，丝带有可能运用起来