超级军网黑丝首飞——印度+ 巴基斯坦 评论翻译
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/05/03 03:43:32
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评论集1：巴基斯坦防务论坛
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Marchpole
Powered by Chinese engines：
使用的中国引擎：
(IMG:
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(IMG:
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faizan khaliq
Today, 02:14 AM
who needs third rated technology from Amreeka now
I think defense cooperation with USA has lost all the charm for Pakistan
here we can hope to get but there we can,t dream to get F-35 or raptor
陷在谁还需要哪些美国佬的三流技术？
我觉得和美国进行的国防合作对巴基斯坦来说已经毫无吸引力了。
和中国合作，我们能得到我们想要的，而和美国合作，得到F35或者猛禽连做梦都不可能。
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Martian
Today, 03:02 AM
Beautiful pictures of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in the air
J20在空中的美丽照片：
(IMG:
)
(IMG:
)
Note: Thank you to "maozedong" and "dingyibvs" for the pictures.
注;感谢网友“maozedong”和“dingyibvs”的照片。
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Martian
Today, 03:13 AM
Videos of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in flight
中国J20的飞行视频：
Action starts at 3:31 in the video.
在视频的3:31起开始试飞：
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Archangelesk99
Today, 03:49 AM
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
引擎室最令人好奇的部分！！！我猜是最小150千牛推力的WS-10A。也可能是180千牛的WS-15。从目前的情况看，这架飞机相当于F-22在2000年的水准，依然超越F-35。只需再过5年，我们就能看到这架飞机全面超越F-22。还有些关于J-16，一种4.5代战机的报道。那架飞机将超越欧洲战机和所有四代战机，价格将比J20稍贵。估计不久就该有原型机了！
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Best of the Best
Today, 04:25 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
你能帮我弄清楚，为什么那个舱门一直开着，就连在高速滑行测试中也没关起来？那个舱门的设计目的是什么？你能好心替我解释下么？我已经想了好久好久，但什么答案也没有。到底那东西是干嘛的？为什么一直打开着？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 04:28 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 03:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 04:25 AM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
Hello, I'm not an expert on military weapons but I suppose it is that the wheels are not retracted for safety reasons. The front looks like a landing gear bay. Not sure of the side ones but they also look like they store the side wheels. They probably don't want to take a risk that the landing gear mechanism will not operate or some other problem might develop and don't want the pilot to worry about being able to land safely
哈罗，我不是军事武器专家，但我猜起落架没收起的原因是出于安全考虑。前面那个看起来像是起落架舱，旁边的是什么不太确定，但他们看起来像是用来收起侧轮的。他们也许是不想冒起落架系统失灵的险，或者是会发生什么故障，飞行员会为能否安全降落而焦虑。
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Dizasta
Today, 04:45 AM
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
我同意，F35首飞也没收起落架
另外，有没有人能断定，j20的设计是否有设想矢量推力？有没有可能在j-20进入全速生产前加上矢量喷口？
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marshall
Today, 04:46 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
貌似你指的是双交叠喷口意味着是涡扇10A的某个升级版本。据说这是涡扇10改的演进版，但现在就不能断言。几乎可以肯定的是，这不是之前常猜测的俄罗斯的117s或者al-41发动机。正如我去年预测的，新丝带的原型很可能会用涡扇-10A的演进版发动机，而涡扇-15仍处于早期研发状态。考虑到涡扇-15的原型据说在去年已经成功测试了，那么它装上J-20的时间很可能会比预计的更早。
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
如果这架j-20的确是用涡扇-10改，那么就没必要着急装上涡扇-15来试飞。有消息说，涡扇-15的推力只达到了设计指标的90%，那么它只160KN，只比现有的150KN的涡扇10改稍多一点。
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22
levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
你说的是J-10B还是沈飞的丝带候选竞争者？如果你说的是传说中的沈飞战斗机，那它应该是丝带机，但目前它还只是一个猜测。然而，我倾向于相信它。因为j-20的某些设计要素暗示了这是一种歼击机/轰炸机/截击机，可能是用于携带空空导弹和反舰导弹，作为一种补充以保护即将出现的航母战斗群航行于东海、南海。J-20看上去有很强的挂载能力，很适合挂载大型反舰导弹。它还会加强中国阻吓美军航母于第一岛链之外的能力，而且还不要使用未曾测试过的东风21D反舰弹道导弹。在这样的海上冲突中，F-22A不会表现得太突出，而J-20看起来可以狂虐F-35B。
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
就是鉴于这种考量，我才觉得很可能沈飞在研发另一种丝带机专用于争夺空中优势，而j-20正如上述所说，是扮演一种更有限的角色。当然，这只是我的猜测。
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Martian
Today, 04:48 AM
Leveling the military arms race
开启了军备竞赛
This is an exciting milestone for China's military aviation. The development and successful flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter will enable China to keep potential aggressors away from her coastline. The era of foreign imperialism and coercion is coming to an end. This is a great achievement for everyone that believes in world peace.
这是中国军用航空工业一个激动人心的里程碑。 j-20的研发和首飞成功令中国保持了向海岸线外进攻的潜力。外来帝国主义压迫的时代结束了。这对于每一个企盼世界和平的人来说都是一个巨大的功绩。
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marshall
Today, 05:05 AM
引用
QUOTE (Dizasta @ Jan 11 2011, 05:45 AM)
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
Nothing can be confirmed at this early stage but if you go by WS-10 turbofan developments which absolutely include thrust vectoring, then it is a good bet that this will be included in the final design. The main question is whether this will be all-aspect or a pitch-axis only thrust vectoring as is found on the F-22A.
在这么早的阶段，没人可以证实。不过如果你推演一下涡扇10的发展历程，明显包括推力矢量。所以，赌它的最终设计有这设计，应该容易赢。主要问题是，它会是全向的矢量，还是和F-22A类似的二元矢量？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 05:06 AM
引用
QUOTE (marshall @ Jan 11 2011, 04:46 AM)
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
I don't think the 180Kn ws-15 is very far behind in development and I think it's already reached 180Kn thrust in the lab. I would not be surprised if this is the early ws-15 with 150Kn thrust that was developed around 2008 and it's already been tested somewhere else (since engines being tested are much harder to detect by the public than big fighters). We'll have to wait and see!!!!
我不认为180KN的涡扇15研发进度拖得很慢，我倒觉得它已经在实验室里达到了180KN的推力。如果这是2008年左右研发的150KN涡扇15早期型，我一点也不觉得奇怪，它应该已经在别的地方测试过了（因为公众想爆料发动机测试可比偷拍这么大一架飞机难多了）。让我们试目以待。
引用
QUOTE
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
No there is apparently another plane under development by China called j-16 or something. It's a "stealth" version of j-10. Very very maneuverable and internal weapons bay along with strong engines (140Kn/engine) and excellent avionics. Its main downside would be that she's not as stealthy as a fifth generation but still much less detectable than 4th generation and less costly than j-20, perhaps $50 million.
不，显然中国在研的另一种战机是J-16或者别的什么歼。它是j-10的隐身版。有非常非常好的机动性，内置弹仓，强劲的发动机和优秀的航电。它的缩水之处主要是没有丝带那么隐身，但仍然比其他三代机更难探测到，而它会比j-20便宜很多，大概5千万美元。
P.S. All sorts of estimates are coming up for J-20, from 1 million $ (I'm guessing that's from those who say it's fake (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/LOLANI.GIF) ) to about $90 million
此外，对j-20的估价实在太多了，从100万美元（我猜是那些说造假的人喊的报价）到9千万美元都有。
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Skull-Buster
Today, 05:39 AM
引用
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 06:25 PM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
I think those hatches house the tires. If you look at the picture in post #4 then its clearer, the wheels retract into those hatches and if you see closely a hatch is opened on the other side also next to the other wheel. Hatches are open on both sides suggesting that the wheels go in there.
我认为那些舱口是装起落架的。如果你看了4楼的清晰照片，会发现起落架会收进这些舱口。仔细看，另一侧的舱口也是紧贴着另一侧起落架。两侧都开舱口，说明这就是装起落架的。
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platinum786
Today, 05:55 AM
wow, only a few weeks ago we were denying the pictures as a PS, now we have it flying!!!
I haven't felt this excited since the FC-1 prototype pics came out!
哇哦，几周前我们还在说这是PS，现在它飞起来了！！！
我从看到枭龙原型机的照片起，从来没那么激动过
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BaburMissile
Today, 06:23 AM
Well done China! (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/ChinaFlag.gif) Waiting for US response...
干得好，中国！等着看老美的反应……
————————————————————转帖请注意保留原帖地址：爬山虎网帖翻译
评论集1：巴基斯坦防务论坛
————————————————————
Marchpole
Powered by Chinese engines：
使用的中国引擎：
(IMG:)
(IMG:)
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faizan khaliq
Today, 02:14 AM
who needs third rated technology from Amreeka now
I think defense cooperation with USA has lost all the charm for Pakistan
here we can hope to get but there we can,t dream to get F-35 or raptor
陷在谁还需要哪些美国佬的三流技术？
我觉得和美国进行的国防合作对巴基斯坦来说已经毫无吸引力了。
和中国合作，我们能得到我们想要的，而和美国合作，得到F35或者猛禽连做梦都不可能。
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Martian
Today, 03:02 AM
Beautiful pictures of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in the air
J20在空中的美丽照片：
(IMG:)
(IMG:)
Note: Thank you to "maozedong" and "dingyibvs" for the pictures.
注;感谢网友“maozedong”和“dingyibvs”的照片。
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Martian
Today, 03:13 AM
Videos of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in flight
中国J20的飞行视频：
Action starts at 3:31 in the video.
在视频的3:31起开始试飞：
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Archangelesk99
Today, 03:49 AM
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
引擎室最令人好奇的部分！！！我猜是最小150千牛推力的WS-10A。也可能是180千牛的WS-15。从目前的情况看，这架飞机相当于F-22在2000年的水准，依然超越F-35。只需再过5年，我们就能看到这架飞机全面超越F-22。还有些关于J-16，一种4.5代战机的报道。那架飞机将超越欧洲战机和所有四代战机，价格将比J20稍贵。估计不久就该有原型机了！
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Best of the Best
Today, 04:25 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
你能帮我弄清楚，为什么那个舱门一直开着，就连在高速滑行测试中也没关起来？那个舱门的设计目的是什么？你能好心替我解释下么？我已经想了好久好久，但什么答案也没有。到底那东西是干嘛的？为什么一直打开着？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 04:28 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 03:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 04:25 AM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
Hello, I'm not an expert on military weapons but I suppose it is that the wheels are not retracted for safety reasons. The front looks like a landing gear bay. Not sure of the side ones but they also look like they store the side wheels. They probably don't want to take a risk that the landing gear mechanism will not operate or some other problem might develop and don't want the pilot to worry about being able to land safely
哈罗，我不是军事武器专家，但我猜起落架没收起的原因是出于安全考虑。前面那个看起来像是起落架舱，旁边的是什么不太确定，但他们看起来像是用来收起侧轮的。他们也许是不想冒起落架系统失灵的险，或者是会发生什么故障，飞行员会为能否安全降落而焦虑。
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Dizasta
Today, 04:45 AM
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
我同意，F35首飞也没收起落架
另外，有没有人能断定，j20的设计是否有设想矢量推力？有没有可能在j-20进入全速生产前加上矢量喷口？
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marshall
Today, 04:46 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
貌似你指的是双交叠喷口意味着是涡扇10A的某个升级版本。据说这是涡扇10改的演进版，但现在就不能断言。几乎可以肯定的是，这不是之前常猜测的俄罗斯的117s或者al-41发动机。正如我去年预测的，新丝带的原型很可能会用涡扇-10A的演进版发动机，而涡扇-15仍处于早期研发状态。考虑到涡扇-15的原型据说在去年已经成功测试了，那么它装上J-20的时间很可能会比预计的更早。
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
如果这架j-20的确是用涡扇-10改，那么就没必要着急装上涡扇-15来试飞。有消息说，涡扇-15的推力只达到了设计指标的90%，那么它只160KN，只比现有的150KN的涡扇10改稍多一点。
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22
levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
你说的是J-10B还是沈飞的丝带候选竞争者？如果你说的是传说中的沈飞战斗机，那它应该是丝带机，但目前它还只是一个猜测。然而，我倾向于相信它。因为j-20的某些设计要素暗示了这是一种歼击机/轰炸机/截击机，可能是用于携带空空导弹和反舰导弹，作为一种补充以保护即将出现的航母战斗群航行于东海、南海。J-20看上去有很强的挂载能力，很适合挂载大型反舰导弹。它还会加强中国阻吓美军航母于第一岛链之外的能力，而且还不要使用未曾测试过的东风21D反舰弹道导弹。在这样的海上冲突中，F-22A不会表现得太突出，而J-20看起来可以狂虐F-35B。
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
就是鉴于这种考量，我才觉得很可能沈飞在研发另一种丝带机专用于争夺空中优势，而j-20正如上述所说，是扮演一种更有限的角色。当然，这只是我的猜测。
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Martian
Today, 04:48 AM
Leveling the military arms race
开启了军备竞赛
This is an exciting milestone for China's military aviation. The development and successful flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter will enable China to keep potential aggressors away from her coastline. The era of foreign imperialism and coercion is coming to an end. This is a great achievement for everyone that believes in world peace.
这是中国军用航空工业一个激动人心的里程碑。 j-20的研发和首飞成功令中国保持了向海岸线外进攻的潜力。外来帝国主义压迫的时代结束了。这对于每一个企盼世界和平的人来说都是一个巨大的功绩。
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marshall
Today, 05:05 AM
引用
QUOTE (Dizasta @ Jan 11 2011, 05:45 AM)
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
Nothing can be confirmed at this early stage but if you go by WS-10 turbofan developments which absolutely include thrust vectoring, then it is a good bet that this will be included in the final design. The main question is whether this will be all-aspect or a pitch-axis only thrust vectoring as is found on the F-22A.
在这么早的阶段，没人可以证实。不过如果你推演一下涡扇10的发展历程，明显包括推力矢量。所以，赌它的最终设计有这设计，应该容易赢。主要问题是，它会是全向的矢量，还是和F-22A类似的二元矢量？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 05:06 AM
引用
QUOTE (marshall @ Jan 11 2011, 04:46 AM)
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
I don't think the 180Kn ws-15 is very far behind in development and I think it's already reached 180Kn thrust in the lab. I would not be surprised if this is the early ws-15 with 150Kn thrust that was developed around 2008 and it's already been tested somewhere else (since engines being tested are much harder to detect by the public than big fighters). We'll have to wait and see!!!!
我不认为180KN的涡扇15研发进度拖得很慢，我倒觉得它已经在实验室里达到了180KN的推力。如果这是2008年左右研发的150KN涡扇15早期型，我一点也不觉得奇怪，它应该已经在别的地方测试过了（因为公众想爆料发动机测试可比偷拍这么大一架飞机难多了）。让我们试目以待。
引用
QUOTE
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
No there is apparently another plane under development by China called j-16 or something. It's a "stealth" version of j-10. Very very maneuverable and internal weapons bay along with strong engines (140Kn/engine) and excellent avionics. Its main downside would be that she's not as stealthy as a fifth generation but still much less detectable than 4th generation and less costly than j-20, perhaps $50 million.
不，显然中国在研的另一种战机是J-16或者别的什么歼。它是j-10的隐身版。有非常非常好的机动性，内置弹仓，强劲的发动机和优秀的航电。它的缩水之处主要是没有丝带那么隐身，但仍然比其他三代机更难探测到，而它会比j-20便宜很多，大概5千万美元。
P.S. All sorts of estimates are coming up for J-20, from 1 million $ (I'm guessing that's from those who say it's fake (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/LOLANI.GIF) ) to about $90 million
此外，对j-20的估价实在太多了，从100万美元（我猜是那些说造假的人喊的报价）到9千万美元都有。
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Skull-Buster
Today, 05:39 AM
引用
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 06:25 PM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
I think those hatches house the tires. If you look at the picture in post #4 then its clearer, the wheels retract into those hatches and if you see closely a hatch is opened on the other side also next to the other wheel. Hatches are open on both sides suggesting that the wheels go in there.
我认为那些舱口是装起落架的。如果你看了4楼的清晰照片，会发现起落架会收进这些舱口。仔细看，另一侧的舱口也是紧贴着另一侧起落架。两侧都开舱口，说明这就是装起落架的。
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platinum786
Today, 05:55 AM
wow, only a few weeks ago we were denying the pictures as a PS, now we have it flying!!!
I haven't felt this excited since the FC-1 prototype pics came out!
哇哦，几周前我们还在说这是PS，现在它飞起来了！！！
我从看到枭龙原型机的照片起，从来没那么激动过
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BaburMissile
Today, 06:23 AM
Well done China! (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/ChinaFlag.gif) Waiting for US response...
干得好，中国！等着看老美的反应……
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评论集1：巴基斯坦防务论坛
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Marchpole
Powered by Chinese engines：
使用的中国引擎：
(IMG:
) (IMG:
)————————————————————
faizan khaliq
Today, 02:14 AM
who needs third rated technology from Amreeka now
I think defense cooperation with USA has lost all the charm for Pakistan
here we can hope to get but there we can,t dream to get F-35 or raptor
陷在谁还需要哪些美国佬的三流技术？
我觉得和美国进行的国防合作对巴基斯坦来说已经毫无吸引力了。
和中国合作，我们能得到我们想要的，而和美国合作，得到F35或者猛禽连做梦都不可能。
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Martian
Today, 03:02 AM
Beautiful pictures of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in the air
J20在空中的美丽照片：
(IMG:
) (IMG:
) Note: Thank you to "maozedong" and "dingyibvs" for the pictures.
注;感谢网友“maozedong”和“dingyibvs”的照片。
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Martian
Today, 03:13 AM
Videos of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in flight
中国J20的飞行视频：
Action starts at 3:31 in the video.
在视频的3:31起开始试飞：
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Archangelesk99
Today, 03:49 AM
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
引擎室最令人好奇的部分！！！我猜是最小150千牛推力的WS-10A。也可能是180千牛的WS-15。从目前的情况看，这架飞机相当于F-22在2000年的水准，依然超越F-35。只需再过5年，我们就能看到这架飞机全面超越F-22。还有些关于J-16，一种4.5代战机的报道。那架飞机将超越欧洲战机和所有四代战机，价格将比J20稍贵。估计不久就该有原型机了！
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Best of the Best
Today, 04:25 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
你能帮我弄清楚，为什么那个舱门一直开着，就连在高速滑行测试中也没关起来？那个舱门的设计目的是什么？你能好心替我解释下么？我已经想了好久好久，但什么答案也没有。到底那东西是干嘛的？为什么一直打开着？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 04:28 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 03:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 04:25 AM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
Hello, I'm not an expert on military weapons but I suppose it is that the wheels are not retracted for safety reasons. The front looks like a landing gear bay. Not sure of the side ones but they also look like they store the side wheels. They probably don't want to take a risk that the landing gear mechanism will not operate or some other problem might develop and don't want the pilot to worry about being able to land safely
哈罗，我不是军事武器专家，但我猜起落架没收起的原因是出于安全考虑。前面那个看起来像是起落架舱，旁边的是什么不太确定，但他们看起来像是用来收起侧轮的。他们也许是不想冒起落架系统失灵的险，或者是会发生什么故障，飞行员会为能否安全降落而焦虑。
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Dizasta
Today, 04:45 AM
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
我同意，F35首飞也没收起落架
另外，有没有人能断定，j20的设计是否有设想矢量推力？有没有可能在j-20进入全速生产前加上矢量喷口？
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marshall
Today, 04:46 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
貌似你指的是双交叠喷口意味着是涡扇10A的某个升级版本。据说这是涡扇10改的演进版，但现在就不能断言。几乎可以肯定的是，这不是之前常猜测的俄罗斯的117s或者al-41发动机。正如我去年预测的，新丝带的原型很可能会用涡扇-10A的演进版发动机，而涡扇-15仍处于早期研发状态。考虑到涡扇-15的原型据说在去年已经成功测试了，那么它装上J-20的时间很可能会比预计的更早。
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
如果这架j-20的确是用涡扇-10改，那么就没必要着急装上涡扇-15来试飞。有消息说，涡扇-15的推力只达到了设计指标的90%，那么它只160KN，只比现有的150KN的涡扇10改稍多一点。
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22
levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
你说的是J-10B还是沈飞的丝带候选竞争者？如果你说的是传说中的沈飞战斗机，那它应该是丝带机，但目前它还只是一个猜测。然而，我倾向于相信它。因为j-20的某些设计要素暗示了这是一种歼击机/轰炸机/截击机，可能是用于携带空空导弹和反舰导弹，作为一种补充以保护即将出现的航母战斗群航行于东海、南海。J-20看上去有很强的挂载能力，很适合挂载大型反舰导弹。它还会加强中国阻吓美军航母于第一岛链之外的能力，而且还不要使用未曾测试过的东风21D反舰弹道导弹。在这样的海上冲突中，F-22A不会表现得太突出，而J-20看起来可以狂虐F-35B。
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
就是鉴于这种考量，我才觉得很可能沈飞在研发另一种丝带机专用于争夺空中优势，而j-20正如上述所说，是扮演一种更有限的角色。当然，这只是我的猜测。
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Martian
Today, 04:48 AM
Leveling the military arms race
开启了军备竞赛
This is an exciting milestone for China's military aviation. The development and successful flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter will enable China to keep potential aggressors away from her coastline. The era of foreign imperialism and coercion is coming to an end. This is a great achievement for everyone that believes in world peace.
这是中国军用航空工业一个激动人心的里程碑。 j-20的研发和首飞成功令中国保持了向海岸线外进攻的潜力。外来帝国主义压迫的时代结束了。这对于每一个企盼世界和平的人来说都是一个巨大的功绩。
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marshall
Today, 05:05 AM
引用
QUOTE (Dizasta @ Jan 11 2011, 05:45 AM)
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
Nothing can be confirmed at this early stage but if you go by WS-10 turbofan developments which absolutely include thrust vectoring, then it is a good bet that this will be included in the final design. The main question is whether this will be all-aspect or a pitch-axis only thrust vectoring as is found on the F-22A.
在这么早的阶段，没人可以证实。不过如果你推演一下涡扇10的发展历程，明显包括推力矢量。所以，赌它的最终设计有这设计，应该容易赢。主要问题是，它会是全向的矢量，还是和F-22A类似的二元矢量？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 05:06 AM
引用
QUOTE (marshall @ Jan 11 2011, 04:46 AM)
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
I don't think the 180Kn ws-15 is very far behind in development and I think it's already reached 180Kn thrust in the lab. I would not be surprised if this is the early ws-15 with 150Kn thrust that was developed around 2008 and it's already been tested somewhere else (since engines being tested are much harder to detect by the public than big fighters). We'll have to wait and see!!!!
我不认为180KN的涡扇15研发进度拖得很慢，我倒觉得它已经在实验室里达到了180KN的推力。如果这是2008年左右研发的150KN涡扇15早期型，我一点也不觉得奇怪，它应该已经在别的地方测试过了（因为公众想爆料发动机测试可比偷拍这么大一架飞机难多了）。让我们试目以待。
引用
QUOTE
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
No there is apparently another plane under development by China called j-16 or something. It's a "stealth" version of j-10. Very very maneuverable and internal weapons bay along with strong engines (140Kn/engine) and excellent avionics. Its main downside would be that she's not as stealthy as a fifth generation but still much less detectable than 4th generation and less costly than j-20, perhaps $50 million.
不，显然中国在研的另一种战机是J-16或者别的什么歼。它是j-10的隐身版。有非常非常好的机动性，内置弹仓，强劲的发动机和优秀的航电。它的缩水之处主要是没有丝带那么隐身，但仍然比其他三代机更难探测到，而它会比j-20便宜很多，大概5千万美元。
P.S. All sorts of estimates are coming up for J-20, from 1 million $ (I'm guessing that's from those who say it's fake (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/LOLANI.GIF) ) to about $90 million
此外，对j-20的估价实在太多了，从100万美元（我猜是那些说造假的人喊的报价）到9千万美元都有。
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Skull-Buster
Today, 05:39 AM
引用
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 06:25 PM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
I think those hatches house the tires. If you look at the picture in post #4 then its clearer, the wheels retract into those hatches and if you see closely a hatch is opened on the other side also next to the other wheel. Hatches are open on both sides suggesting that the wheels go in there.
我认为那些舱口是装起落架的。如果你看了4楼的清晰照片，会发现起落架会收进这些舱口。仔细看，另一侧的舱口也是紧贴着另一侧起落架。两侧都开舱口，说明这就是装起落架的。
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platinum786
Today, 05:55 AM
wow, only a few weeks ago we were denying the pictures as a PS, now we have it flying!!!
I haven't felt this excited since the FC-1 prototype pics came out!
哇哦，几周前我们还在说这是PS，现在它飞起来了！！！
我从看到枭龙原型机的照片起，从来没那么激动过
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BaburMissile
Today, 06:23 AM
Well done China! (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/ChinaFlag.gif) Waiting for US response...
干得好，中国！等着看老美的反应……
————————————————————转帖请注意保留原帖地址：爬山虎网帖翻译
评论集1：巴基斯坦防务论坛
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Marchpole
Powered by Chinese engines：
使用的中国引擎：
(IMG:
) (IMG:
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faizan khaliq
Today, 02:14 AM
who needs third rated technology from Amreeka now
I think defense cooperation with USA has lost all the charm for Pakistan
here we can hope to get but there we can,t dream to get F-35 or raptor
陷在谁还需要哪些美国佬的三流技术？
我觉得和美国进行的国防合作对巴基斯坦来说已经毫无吸引力了。
和中国合作，我们能得到我们想要的，而和美国合作，得到F35或者猛禽连做梦都不可能。
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Martian
Today, 03:02 AM
Beautiful pictures of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in the air
J20在空中的美丽照片：
(IMG:
) (IMG:
) Note: Thank you to "maozedong" and "dingyibvs" for the pictures.
注;感谢网友“maozedong”和“dingyibvs”的照片。
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Martian
Today, 03:13 AM
Videos of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter in flight
中国J20的飞行视频：
Action starts at 3:31 in the video.
在视频的3:31起开始试飞：
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Archangelesk99
Today, 03:49 AM
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
引擎室最令人好奇的部分！！！我猜是最小150千牛推力的WS-10A。也可能是180千牛的WS-15。从目前的情况看，这架飞机相当于F-22在2000年的水准，依然超越F-35。只需再过5年，我们就能看到这架飞机全面超越F-22。还有些关于J-16，一种4.5代战机的报道。那架飞机将超越欧洲战机和所有四代战机，价格将比J20稍贵。估计不久就该有原型机了！
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Best of the Best
Today, 04:25 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
你能帮我弄清楚，为什么那个舱门一直开着，就连在高速滑行测试中也没关起来？那个舱门的设计目的是什么？你能好心替我解释下么？我已经想了好久好久，但什么答案也没有。到底那东西是干嘛的？为什么一直打开着？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 04:28 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 03:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22 levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 04:25 AM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
Hello, I'm not an expert on military weapons but I suppose it is that the wheels are not retracted for safety reasons. The front looks like a landing gear bay. Not sure of the side ones but they also look like they store the side wheels. They probably don't want to take a risk that the landing gear mechanism will not operate or some other problem might develop and don't want the pilot to worry about being able to land safely
哈罗，我不是军事武器专家，但我猜起落架没收起的原因是出于安全考虑。前面那个看起来像是起落架舱，旁边的是什么不太确定，但他们看起来像是用来收起侧轮的。他们也许是不想冒起落架系统失灵的险，或者是会发生什么故障，飞行员会为能否安全降落而焦虑。
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Dizasta
Today, 04:45 AM
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
我同意，F35首飞也没收起落架
另外，有没有人能断定，j20的设计是否有设想矢量推力？有没有可能在j-20进入全速生产前加上矢量喷口？
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marshall
Today, 04:46 AM
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
That engine is most curious!!! I would guess it's a 150K thrust minimal engine of ws-10a core, might even be the 180K ws-15. From what's seen so far this plane is about what f-22 was in
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
貌似你指的是双交叠喷口意味着是涡扇10A的某个升级版本。据说这是涡扇10改的演进版，但现在就不能断言。几乎可以肯定的是，这不是之前常猜测的俄罗斯的117s或者al-41发动机。正如我去年预测的，新丝带的原型很可能会用涡扇-10A的演进版发动机，而涡扇-15仍处于早期研发状态。考虑到涡扇-15的原型据说在去年已经成功测试了，那么它装上J-20的时间很可能会比预计的更早。
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
如果这架j-20的确是用涡扇-10改，那么就没必要着急装上涡扇-15来试飞。有消息说，涡扇-15的推力只达到了设计指标的90%，那么它只160KN，只比现有的150KN的涡扇10改稍多一点。
引用
QUOTE (Archangelesk99 @ Jan 11 2011, 04:49 AM)
year 2000 and already superior to f-35. Another 5 years should see this jet-fighter surpass f-22
levels in all areas. Reports are also coming of a j-16 4.5 generation craft superior to eurofighter and all 4th generation planes and less expensive than j-20. Should be a prototype flight soon!!!
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
你说的是J-10B还是沈飞的丝带候选竞争者？如果你说的是传说中的沈飞战斗机，那它应该是丝带机，但目前它还只是一个猜测。然而，我倾向于相信它。因为j-20的某些设计要素暗示了这是一种歼击机/轰炸机/截击机，可能是用于携带空空导弹和反舰导弹，作为一种补充以保护即将出现的航母战斗群航行于东海、南海。J-20看上去有很强的挂载能力，很适合挂载大型反舰导弹。它还会加强中国阻吓美军航母于第一岛链之外的能力，而且还不要使用未曾测试过的东风21D反舰弹道导弹。在这样的海上冲突中，F-22A不会表现得太突出，而J-20看起来可以狂虐F-35B。
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
就是鉴于这种考量，我才觉得很可能沈飞在研发另一种丝带机专用于争夺空中优势，而j-20正如上述所说，是扮演一种更有限的角色。当然，这只是我的猜测。
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Martian
Today, 04:48 AM
Leveling the military arms race
开启了军备竞赛
This is an exciting milestone for China's military aviation. The development and successful flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter will enable China to keep potential aggressors away from her coastline. The era of foreign imperialism and coercion is coming to an end. This is a great achievement for everyone that believes in world peace.
这是中国军用航空工业一个激动人心的里程碑。 j-20的研发和首飞成功令中国保持了向海岸线外进攻的潜力。外来帝国主义压迫的时代结束了。这对于每一个企盼世界和平的人来说都是一个巨大的功绩。
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marshall
Today, 05:05 AM
引用
QUOTE (Dizasta @ Jan 11 2011, 05:45 AM)
^^ I concur, the F-35's first flight was also with wheels down!
On another note, could anyone please confirm whether the J-20's design envisages Vector-Thrust? Could be a possibility that the design would include TVC-Nozzles, before the J-20 enters full-rate production?
Nothing can be confirmed at this early stage but if you go by WS-10 turbofan developments which absolutely include thrust vectoring, then it is a good bet that this will be included in the final design. The main question is whether this will be all-aspect or a pitch-axis only thrust vectoring as is found on the F-22A.
在这么早的阶段，没人可以证实。不过如果你推演一下涡扇10的发展历程，明显包括推力矢量。所以，赌它的最终设计有这设计，应该容易赢。主要问题是，它会是全向的矢量，还是和F-22A类似的二元矢量？
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Archangelesk99
Today, 05:06 AM
引用
QUOTE (marshall @ Jan 11 2011, 04:46 AM)
It sounds like you're referring to the double-overlap nozzle which suggests some sort of WS-10A turbofan variant. Rumors are floating around that it's a WS-10G derivative, but too early to tell at this point. What is almost certain is that it is not a 117S/AL-41 Russian turbofan, which has been suggested repeatedly. As I predicted last year, the first J-XX/J-20 prototypes will probably use a WS-10A engine derivative while the WS-15 turbofan is still in early development. Considering the WS-15 prototype turbofan is rumored to have successfully tested last year, it will probably begin flight testing onboard the J-20 earlier than thought.
If this J-20 is indeed using the WS-10G turbofan, then there will not be any hurry to begin flight testing with the WS-15 turbofan. News is that the WS-15 has only realized ~90% of its designed thrust so it is only able to deliver a bit over 160KN now vs. ~150KN for the WS-10G.
I don't think the 180Kn ws-15 is very far behind in development and I think it's already reached 180Kn thrust in the lab. I would not be surprised if this is the early ws-15 with 150Kn thrust that was developed around 2008 and it's already been tested somewhere else (since engines being tested are much harder to detect by the public than big fighters). We'll have to wait and see!!!!
我不认为180KN的涡扇15研发进度拖得很慢，我倒觉得它已经在实验室里达到了180KN的推力。如果这是2008年左右研发的150KN涡扇15早期型，我一点也不觉得奇怪，它应该已经在别的地方测试过了（因为公众想爆料发动机测试可比偷拍这么大一架飞机难多了）。让我们试目以待。
引用
QUOTE
Are you referring to the J-10B or a SAC competitor to CAC's J-20? If you're talking about the rumored SAC fighter, that's supposed to be a 5th gen fighter, but that's still speculation at this point. However, I'm inclined to believe this speculation has some truth behind it because the J-20 has some design elements that would suggest it's some sort of fighter/bomber/interceptor possibly to complement a strategy for safeguarding it's upcoming aircraft carrier battlegroup(s) with air-to-air and anti-ship missiles over the East and South China Seas. The J-20 has what looks like huge cargo capacity, perfect for holding bulky anti-ship missiles. It would also increase the envelope within which China could realistically hold off several American aircraft carrier battle groups to beyond the 1st island chain, even without using the untested DF-21D ASBMs. F-22As wouldn't be prominent in such a naval conflict and the J-20 looks like it would make mince meat of the F-35B.
With these thoughts in mind, this is why I think there may possibly be another 5th generation fighter under development in Shenyang strictly for air superiority while the J-20 serves the more restrictive role as just described, but this is my own speculation.
No there is apparently another plane under development by China called j-16 or something. It's a "stealth" version of j-10. Very very maneuverable and internal weapons bay along with strong engines (140Kn/engine) and excellent avionics. Its main downside would be that she's not as stealthy as a fifth generation but still much less detectable than 4th generation and less costly than j-20, perhaps $50 million.
不，显然中国在研的另一种战机是J-16或者别的什么歼。它是j-10的隐身版。有非常非常好的机动性，内置弹仓，强劲的发动机和优秀的航电。它的缩水之处主要是没有丝带那么隐身，但仍然比其他三代机更难探测到，而它会比j-20便宜很多，大概5千万美元。
P.S. All sorts of estimates are coming up for J-20, from 1 million $ (I'm guessing that's from those who say it's fake (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/LOLANI.GIF) ) to about $90 million
此外，对j-20的估价实在太多了，从100万美元（我猜是那些说造假的人喊的报价）到9千万美元都有。
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Skull-Buster
Today, 05:39 AM
引用
QUOTE (Best of the Best @ Jan 11 2011, 06:25 PM)
Can you please help me understand why is that hatch thing opened even during high speed taxi's and also during flight whats the purpose of that hatch can you kindly help me, i have thought and thought and thought but nothing comes to my mind, what is its purpose to be exact and why ?
I think those hatches house the tires. If you look at the picture in post #4 then its clearer, the wheels retract into those hatches and if you see closely a hatch is opened on the other side also next to the other wheel. Hatches are open on both sides suggesting that the wheels go in there.
我认为那些舱口是装起落架的。如果你看了4楼的清晰照片，会发现起落架会收进这些舱口。仔细看，另一侧的舱口也是紧贴着另一侧起落架。两侧都开舱口，说明这就是装起落架的。
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platinum786
Today, 05:55 AM
wow, only a few weeks ago we were denying the pictures as a PS, now we have it flying!!!
I haven't felt this excited since the FC-1 prototype pics came out!
哇哦，几周前我们还在说这是PS，现在它飞起来了！！！
我从看到枭龙原型机的照片起，从来没那么激动过
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BaburMissile
Today, 06:23 AM
Well done China! (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/ChinaFlag.gif) Waiting for US response...
干得好，中国！等着看老美的反应……
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不错不错
评论集2 印度rediff 门户网站新闻评论
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Not that superior...
没那么厉害。。。
by Mahesh (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:33 PM
News reports in western media outlets project this aircraft not very superior if not junk
西媒的新闻报道不是将这架飞机描述成无敌，就是说成垃圾。
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India and china
印度和中国
by SREENIVAS (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:30 PM | Hide replies
in our own intrest we should not treat try to compete with china but let us try to forge frienship with china making them to understand we both the countries join gogether then the terrorism problem we are facing(which is also a main worry in china)can be effectively contained
为了我们自身的利益，我们不应退缩，而是应该尝试与中国竞争。但让我们尝试发展和中国的友谊吧，我们要让他们明白，我们两个国家同心合作，那些困扰我们的恐怖主义问题就会迎刃而解。
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Re: India and china
回复：印度和中国
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:49 PM
true
没错
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Re: India and china
回复：印度和中国
by Vivek Harry (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:35 PM
friendship canbe thereonly amongequals
只有平等的伙伴间才有友谊。
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Re: Re: India and china
回复：回复：印度和中国
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:49 PM
also true
也没错
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nothing to worry
没什么可担心的
by virat agarwal (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:29 PM | Hide replies
under the inspiring leadership of Kangress, sonia, Rahul India can certainly beat China in Scams, corruption, mismanagment etc Dragon does not even stand in front of us...lol
在kangress,sonia,rahul鼓舞人心的领导下，印度可以在欺诈，腐败，失职等方面轻松击败中国。中国龙连站在我们面前的资格都没有。哈哈
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Re: nothing to worry
回复：没什么可担心的
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:49 PM
Good one
说得好
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India
印度
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:28 PM | Hide replies
India is way behind in development things this is only because of leaders,beaurocracy and so on ...
印度在研发方面如此落后的唯一原因就是领导人，官僚，诸如此类。。。
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Re: India
回复：印度
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:50 PM
true
真理
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well im worried
我很担心
by virat agarwal (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:27 PM | Hide replies
what Indian airforce have in their arsenal even to combat against dragon onslaught...:-(
在面对中国龙的猛攻时，印度空军的军火库里有什么能对抗的么？
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Re: well im worried
回复：我很担心
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:50 PM
nothing
啥都没有
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ChineseStealth Fighter Our Tejasisstill 4yrs away!
中国隐形战机 我们的LCA还在四年后呢！
by D goel (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:26 PM | Hide replies
D. Goel Pkl. afternoon 4.30pm Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011.
While the disquiet in strategic circles from Japan philippines Indonesia or even USA is understandably in cautious Low key, there is I am sure Panikcin circles of cognoscenti who see China as a constant Northern threat to most India.We seem to bweneverin rivalry with the dragon, and our Elephant is lethargic splendour embodied. Tejas a middlerange Aircfaft touted as the Standard Bearer of india's quest of self-Reliance in strategic-Aircrafts is nowhere near induction in our Vayu Sena, for several yrs on end.
We can make only Marutis by inducting Design and engine casts from Japanese Principal..Suzuki.We are lacking vision and perseverance , and at best master scams and do copy-cat jobs, badly.D. Goel
当日本，菲律宾，印度尼西亚，甚至美国的战略圈保持可以理解的低调担忧时，我相信，在那些把中国看做多数印度人永恒的北方威胁的专家圈中，一定是一片恐慌。我们似乎从未能和中国龙势均力敌。我们的大象笨拙不堪。
LCA，号称印度自主战略飞机的旗帜，现在距离引入我们的空军还遥遥无期。
我们只能通过引进日本suzuki的设计和发动机铸造技术，生产Marutis。我们缺乏远见和韧性，最好也就能掌握欺诈，做些山寨的东西，质量还不咋地。
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Re: ChineseStealth Fighter Our Tejasisstill 4yrs away!
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:51 PM
We lack political will and initiative
回复楼上：
我们缺乏政治意愿和主动性。
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who cares.. next india will develop it
谁关心啊。。下面印度将会研制出它
by dhruv kumar (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:15 PM | Hide replies
yesterday US, today China, tomorrow India will develop it.
Anyways new developers always have a feature like stealth. china is targeting only US
昨天是美国，今天是中国，明天，则是印度将会研制出它。
总会有新研发者的，总会有类似隐形这种特征的。中国只是以美国为目标而已。
————————————————————
Re: who cares.. next india will develop it
by Raj (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:19 PM
well its easier said then done
回楼上：
说起来容易做起来难。
————————————————————
Re: Re: who cares.. next india will develop it
by dhruv kumar (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:21 PM
eventually everyone will have it, like nuclear bomb
回楼上：
最终，每个人都会拥有的，就像核弹。
————————————————————
Re: who cares.. next india will develop it
by ashok kumar (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:43 PM
Sure, but currently we are struggling with MIG's that take some few Air Force pilots life every year.
回：谁关心啊。。下面印度将会研制出它
当然，可目前我们还挣扎在那些每年杀死一些空军飞行员的米格中。
————————————————————
no concern by congi govt
by gaurang patel (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:54 PM | Hide replies
国大党政府才不关心呢
while our congi. govt. can hardly control inflation or prices of onions, sugar we cannot expect them to counter this kind of military upgradation from china. they will only indulge in looting public money as they will soon complete 10 yrs. & after 10 yrs its history of india to change govt. so the congi guys are still denying any tresspassing by china into borders the civilians have already confirmed chinese men entering our territory & stopping construction work. so far govt. is busy hiding out the truth & the day is not far when china would again take bigger part of india. our congi govt still would say that they were busy controlling inflation & their dirty internal politics.
我们的国大党政府连控制洋葱，糖的价格上涨都做不到，我们怎么能指望他应付中国军事升级的问题呢。（我们的政府）沉迷于剥夺公众的钱，因为这项工作要在10年内完成，十年以后就是换政府（改选）的时候。边境的平民确信有中国人进入印度领土并且停止了构建的工作，可是国大党的人还否认有来自中国边境的非法越境。对政府来说，还是掩盖事实要紧，中国拿走印度大块土地的日子已经不远了。我们的政府还在说他们忙着控制通膨呢，这就是肮脏的内部政治。
————————————————————
Re: no concern by congi govt
by Vivek Harry (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 05:01 PM
ifchina givesits allweather friendPakistan thisstealth fighterthen wecan expectNDelhi tofall likea packofcards
要是中国把隐形战机给了他们全天候的朋友巴基斯坦，到时新德里就满盘皆输了。
————————————————————
This stealth fighter is not the most advanced one.
by kao (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:52 PM | Hide replies
这个隐形飞机不是最先进的
I am a Chinese and new here, HI to all rediff friends. Truely, the test flight fulfilled the aspiration of many Chinese nationalists and patriotic，as well as being use as a propaganda tool by CCP; but I have no idea why it is hyped as the most advanced one. Donno what kind of reference the writer quoted and how well you guys here know about aircraft technology, this fighter has been designed for defence, one may find the evidence from engine power or aerodynamic design.
LAC have also made its first flight,lucky day for both India and China.
Hats off to all engineers and designers, they deserve it.
我是一个刚到这里的中国人，rediff的朋友们大家好。当然，这次试飞激发了中国的国家主义和爱国热情，也是共产党宣传的一部分；不过我不明白为什么要夸大的宣传这是最先进的（飞机）。作者是从哪里引用的材料，这里的朋友们都不都飞机技术呢，这个飞机是被设计来防御的，这点可以从发动机（推动力）和空气动力学设置上看出。
LCA也首飞过了，这对中印两国都是好消息。
向工程师和设计人员们致敬，他们实至名归。
————————————————————
Re: This stealth fighter is not the most advanced one.
by sree harsha (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:58 PM
回复：这个隐形飞机不是最先进的
This is not the world's most advanced fighter jet. This is termed as a 4th generation fighter jet. the US already has operational F22 fighters (Not development). The US (Jointly with NATO) is already developing its 5th generation fighter F35. India and Russia jointly are developing 4th generation fighter plane Sukhoi-PAK...
Get your facts straight rediff.
这不是世界上最先进的喷气战机。这被定义为4代喷气战机。美国已经在用F22战机（不是新产品）。美国（还有北约）已经在发展第5代战机F35。印度和俄罗斯正在联合研发第4代战机Sukhoi-PAK。
————————————————————
Not necessary
by Bharat Bhooshan (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:52 PM | Hide replies
没必要
Many people can own a formula one cars; but it is only Schumaker how can use it optimally. Meaning it doesn't matter how advanced your air craft is unless you know how to use it optimally and Indian fighter pilots are best.
很多人有一级方程式赛车，不过只有舒马赫知道怎么能开得最好。同样的，你的飞机有多好并不重要，除非你知道怎么能用的最好，印度的飞行员是最好的。
————————————————————
Re: Not necessary
by mohammed ulhaq (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 05:07 PM
回复：没必要
Keep saying 'aal is well' and you will get the kick on your butt.
接着说“aal很好”然后你就会被踢出去。
————————————————————
by Rohan Kapoor (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:50 PM
If there is some shame left in Indian corrupt politicians and they feel they r the major cause behind country\'s bad health they must bring their black money back and spend it on defence sector in the way to overcome china otherwise this dragon is going to eat us.
如果腐败的印度政客们能感到羞耻，知道他们就是国家糟糕情况的始作俑者，他们就该把黑钱退回来用在国防部门，这样我们才能赶上这只龙，不然龙就会吃掉我们。
————————————————————
long way to go!
by aniketh MG (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:48 PM
还有很长的路要走
the articles claims that F-35 is inferior compared to the J-20. that is absurd. The f-22 itself is superior to J-20 and the F-35, is much better than F-22. so can place ur bets on which is superior. India and Russia are working on a Sukhoi stealth as well. China has a long way to go before it can actually develop a true stealth. the only matter of concern is that china can manufacture these planes fast and at less prices. Six years to be in active service.. only attests some stealth flaws
本文称F35弱于J20，这太荒谬了。F22就比J20强，F35又比F22好很多，你说F35和J20谁更好呢。印度和俄罗斯也在作Sukhoi隐形飞机。中国在造真正的隐形飞机方面还要很长的路要走。真正要注意的是中国造飞机很快而且便宜。6年就能服役~~只能证明隐形的缺陷。
————————————————————
Congratulations China!
by suppandi (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:39 PM | Hide replies
All the Best!
祝贺中国
万事顺利！
————————————————————
Re: Congratulations China!
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:48 PM
are you out of your mind
回复：祝贺中国
你是不是有点疯
————————————————————
Not that superior...
by Mahesh (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:33 PM
没那么先进
News reports in western media outlets project this aircraft not very superior if not junk
西媒关于这个飞机项目的报道说飞机没有那么先进。
————————————————————
————————————————————
Not that superior...
没那么厉害。。。
by Mahesh (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:33 PM
News reports in western media outlets project this aircraft not very superior if not junk
西媒的新闻报道不是将这架飞机描述成无敌，就是说成垃圾。
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India and china
印度和中国
by SREENIVAS (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:30 PM | Hide replies
in our own intrest we should not treat try to compete with china but let us try to forge frienship with china making them to understand we both the countries join gogether then the terrorism problem we are facing(which is also a main worry in china)can be effectively contained
为了我们自身的利益，我们不应退缩，而是应该尝试与中国竞争。但让我们尝试发展和中国的友谊吧，我们要让他们明白，我们两个国家同心合作，那些困扰我们的恐怖主义问题就会迎刃而解。
————————————————————
Re: India and china
回复：印度和中国
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:49 PM
true
没错
————————————————————
Re: India and china
回复：印度和中国
by Vivek Harry (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:35 PM
friendship canbe thereonly amongequals
只有平等的伙伴间才有友谊。
————————————————————
Re: Re: India and china
回复：回复：印度和中国
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:49 PM
also true
也没错
————————————————————
nothing to worry
没什么可担心的
by virat agarwal (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:29 PM | Hide replies
under the inspiring leadership of Kangress, sonia, Rahul India can certainly beat China in Scams, corruption, mismanagment etc Dragon does not even stand in front of us...lol
在kangress,sonia,rahul鼓舞人心的领导下，印度可以在欺诈，腐败，失职等方面轻松击败中国。中国龙连站在我们面前的资格都没有。哈哈
————————————————————
Re: nothing to worry
回复：没什么可担心的
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:49 PM
Good one
说得好
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India
印度
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:28 PM | Hide replies
India is way behind in development things this is only because of leaders,beaurocracy and so on ...
印度在研发方面如此落后的唯一原因就是领导人，官僚，诸如此类。。。
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Re: India
回复：印度
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:50 PM
true
真理
————————————————————
well im worried
我很担心
by virat agarwal (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:27 PM | Hide replies
what Indian airforce have in their arsenal even to combat against dragon onslaught...:-(
在面对中国龙的猛攻时，印度空军的军火库里有什么能对抗的么？
————————————————————
Re: well im worried
回复：我很担心
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:50 PM
nothing
啥都没有
————————————————————
ChineseStealth Fighter Our Tejasisstill 4yrs away!
中国隐形战机 我们的LCA还在四年后呢！
by D goel (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:26 PM | Hide replies
D. Goel Pkl. afternoon 4.30pm Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011.
While the disquiet in strategic circles from Japan philippines Indonesia or even USA is understandably in cautious Low key, there is I am sure Panikcin circles of cognoscenti who see China as a constant Northern threat to most India.We seem to bweneverin rivalry with the dragon, and our Elephant is lethargic splendour embodied. Tejas a middlerange Aircfaft touted as the Standard Bearer of india's quest of self-Reliance in strategic-Aircrafts is nowhere near induction in our Vayu Sena, for several yrs on end.
We can make only Marutis by inducting Design and engine casts from Japanese Principal..Suzuki.We are lacking vision and perseverance , and at best master scams and do copy-cat jobs, badly.D. Goel
当日本，菲律宾，印度尼西亚，甚至美国的战略圈保持可以理解的低调担忧时，我相信，在那些把中国看做多数印度人永恒的北方威胁的专家圈中，一定是一片恐慌。我们似乎从未能和中国龙势均力敌。我们的大象笨拙不堪。
LCA，号称印度自主战略飞机的旗帜，现在距离引入我们的空军还遥遥无期。
我们只能通过引进日本suzuki的设计和发动机铸造技术，生产Marutis。我们缺乏远见和韧性，最好也就能掌握欺诈，做些山寨的东西，质量还不咋地。
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Re: ChineseStealth Fighter Our Tejasisstill 4yrs away!
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:51 PM
We lack political will and initiative
回复楼上：
我们缺乏政治意愿和主动性。
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who cares.. next india will develop it
谁关心啊。。下面印度将会研制出它
by dhruv kumar (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:15 PM | Hide replies
yesterday US, today China, tomorrow India will develop it.
Anyways new developers always have a feature like stealth. china is targeting only US
昨天是美国，今天是中国，明天，则是印度将会研制出它。
总会有新研发者的，总会有类似隐形这种特征的。中国只是以美国为目标而已。
————————————————————
Re: who cares.. next india will develop it
by Raj (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:19 PM
well its easier said then done
回楼上：
说起来容易做起来难。
————————————————————
Re: Re: who cares.. next india will develop it
by dhruv kumar (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:21 PM
eventually everyone will have it, like nuclear bomb
回楼上：
最终，每个人都会拥有的，就像核弹。
————————————————————
Re: who cares.. next india will develop it
by ashok kumar (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:43 PM
Sure, but currently we are struggling with MIG's that take some few Air Force pilots life every year.
回：谁关心啊。。下面印度将会研制出它
当然，可目前我们还挣扎在那些每年杀死一些空军飞行员的米格中。
————————————————————
no concern by congi govt
by gaurang patel (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:54 PM | Hide replies
国大党政府才不关心呢
while our congi. govt. can hardly control inflation or prices of onions, sugar we cannot expect them to counter this kind of military upgradation from china. they will only indulge in looting public money as they will soon complete 10 yrs. & after 10 yrs its history of india to change govt. so the congi guys are still denying any tresspassing by china into borders the civilians have already confirmed chinese men entering our territory & stopping construction work. so far govt. is busy hiding out the truth & the day is not far when china would again take bigger part of india. our congi govt still would say that they were busy controlling inflation & their dirty internal politics.
我们的国大党政府连控制洋葱，糖的价格上涨都做不到，我们怎么能指望他应付中国军事升级的问题呢。（我们的政府）沉迷于剥夺公众的钱，因为这项工作要在10年内完成，十年以后就是换政府（改选）的时候。边境的平民确信有中国人进入印度领土并且停止了构建的工作，可是国大党的人还否认有来自中国边境的非法越境。对政府来说，还是掩盖事实要紧，中国拿走印度大块土地的日子已经不远了。我们的政府还在说他们忙着控制通膨呢，这就是肮脏的内部政治。
————————————————————
Re: no concern by congi govt
by Vivek Harry (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 05:01 PM
ifchina givesits allweather friendPakistan thisstealth fighterthen wecan expectNDelhi tofall likea packofcards
要是中国把隐形战机给了他们全天候的朋友巴基斯坦，到时新德里就满盘皆输了。
————————————————————
This stealth fighter is not the most advanced one.
by kao (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:52 PM | Hide replies
这个隐形飞机不是最先进的
I am a Chinese and new here, HI to all rediff friends. Truely, the test flight fulfilled the aspiration of many Chinese nationalists and patriotic，as well as being use as a propaganda tool by CCP; but I have no idea why it is hyped as the most advanced one. Donno what kind of reference the writer quoted and how well you guys here know about aircraft technology, this fighter has been designed for defence, one may find the evidence from engine power or aerodynamic design.
LAC have also made its first flight,lucky day for both India and China.
Hats off to all engineers and designers, they deserve it.
我是一个刚到这里的中国人，rediff的朋友们大家好。当然，这次试飞激发了中国的国家主义和爱国热情，也是共产党宣传的一部分；不过我不明白为什么要夸大的宣传这是最先进的（飞机）。作者是从哪里引用的材料，这里的朋友们都不都飞机技术呢，这个飞机是被设计来防御的，这点可以从发动机（推动力）和空气动力学设置上看出。
LCA也首飞过了，这对中印两国都是好消息。
向工程师和设计人员们致敬，他们实至名归。
————————————————————
Re: This stealth fighter is not the most advanced one.
by sree harsha (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:58 PM
回复：这个隐形飞机不是最先进的
This is not the world's most advanced fighter jet. This is termed as a 4th generation fighter jet. the US already has operational F22 fighters (Not development). The US (Jointly with NATO) is already developing its 5th generation fighter F35. India and Russia jointly are developing 4th generation fighter plane Sukhoi-PAK...
Get your facts straight rediff.
这不是世界上最先进的喷气战机。这被定义为4代喷气战机。美国已经在用F22战机（不是新产品）。美国（还有北约）已经在发展第5代战机F35。印度和俄罗斯正在联合研发第4代战机Sukhoi-PAK。
————————————————————
Not necessary
by Bharat Bhooshan (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:52 PM | Hide replies
没必要
Many people can own a formula one cars; but it is only Schumaker how can use it optimally. Meaning it doesn't matter how advanced your air craft is unless you know how to use it optimally and Indian fighter pilots are best.
很多人有一级方程式赛车，不过只有舒马赫知道怎么能开得最好。同样的，你的飞机有多好并不重要，除非你知道怎么能用的最好，印度的飞行员是最好的。
————————————————————
Re: Not necessary
by mohammed ulhaq (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 05:07 PM
回复：没必要
Keep saying 'aal is well' and you will get the kick on your butt.
接着说“aal很好”然后你就会被踢出去。
————————————————————
by Rohan Kapoor (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:50 PM
If there is some shame left in Indian corrupt politicians and they feel they r the major cause behind country\'s bad health they must bring their black money back and spend it on defence sector in the way to overcome china otherwise this dragon is going to eat us.
如果腐败的印度政客们能感到羞耻，知道他们就是国家糟糕情况的始作俑者，他们就该把黑钱退回来用在国防部门，这样我们才能赶上这只龙，不然龙就会吃掉我们。
————————————————————
long way to go!
by aniketh MG (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:48 PM
还有很长的路要走
the articles claims that F-35 is inferior compared to the J-20. that is absurd. The f-22 itself is superior to J-20 and the F-35, is much better than F-22. so can place ur bets on which is superior. India and Russia are working on a Sukhoi stealth as well. China has a long way to go before it can actually develop a true stealth. the only matter of concern is that china can manufacture these planes fast and at less prices. Six years to be in active service.. only attests some stealth flaws
本文称F35弱于J20，这太荒谬了。F22就比J20强，F35又比F22好很多，你说F35和J20谁更好呢。印度和俄罗斯也在作Sukhoi隐形飞机。中国在造真正的隐形飞机方面还要很长的路要走。真正要注意的是中国造飞机很快而且便宜。6年就能服役~~只能证明隐形的缺陷。
————————————————————
Congratulations China!
by suppandi (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:39 PM | Hide replies
All the Best!
祝贺中国
万事顺利！
————————————————————
Re: Congratulations China!
by ashambani (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:48 PM
are you out of your mind
回复：祝贺中国
你是不是有点疯
————————————————————
Not that superior...
by Mahesh (View MyPage) on Jan 12, 2011 04:33 PM
没那么先进
News reports in western media outlets project this aircraft not very superior if not junk
西媒关于这个飞机项目的报道说飞机没有那么先进。
————————————————————
看老巴论坛就会发现，人家也有FQ，但是骂街的很少
别这么忽悠啊，哪儿是印度的？
感觉JY每个国家都有啊。。。
ChineseStealth Fighter Our Tejasisstill 4yrs away!
中国隐形战机 我们的LCA还在四年后呢！
中国隐形战机 我们的LCA还在四年后呢！
－ －印度也就能嘴炮出六代机，精彩亮点在于F35>F22
嘿嘿，介些是经过筛选的吧
^^ 不一定。大部分印度网友对这次J-20升空还是服气地。。。
辛苦楼主了，翻译这么多
居然有阿三认为F35比F22先进
精彩亮点在于F35>F22
F35比F22先进
F35>F22?那岂不是F111和F117是天顶星奸星舰？
F35>F22?那岂不是F111和F117是天顶星奸星舰？
F35比F22多了13，当然更好了
印度不必担心 你们有嘴炮啊
巴基斯坦的兄弟们都知道WA10改，WS15，真厉害呀
自此以后，会有更多的朝拜国！呵呵
笑而不语，首页围观
印度的确不能小窥，如果印度在国外的技术力量都涌回国内的确是一种可怕的力量。希望印度政府一直SB下去
J-20显然无法与美国F-22，更不要说苏霍伊的T-50形成竞争
三锅可以安心了
三锅可以安心了观后感：
1、巴铁的KC比我们的都红。
2、阿三现在看到对抗不行想要和平转进了。
1、巴铁的KC比我们的都红。
2、阿三现在看到对抗不行想要和平转进了。
不管怎么样,顶一下
巴铁网友知识面非常广，一看就是知识青年，专业军迷，比在坛子里的某些FQ强多了
阿三的算术学得比较好，F35>F22
are you crazy？
从阿三的话中可以看出天下FQ是一家啊。
那些说政府官僚腐败的话只要把印度改成中国，立马就能在国内很多论坛上引来一片附和的声音。
那些说政府官僚腐败的话只要把印度改成中国，立马就能在国内很多论坛上引来一片附和的声音。
那个ID叫Kao的中国人是战忽局派去的么？
“这个飞机是被设计来防御的，这点可以从发动机（推动力）和空气动力学设置上看出。”
“LCA也首飞过了，这对中印两国都是好消息。”
“这个飞机是被设计来防御的，这点可以从发动机（推动力）和空气动力学设置上看出。”
“LCA也首飞过了，这对中印两国都是好消息。”
总比泡菜和生鱼片来的客观。
看来A3也有很多FQ啊
那个J16比J20贵的翻译错了，应该是便宜
35当然大于22啦！这是简单的算数吗！
小巴很乐观啊 比中国人还乐观
太长先顶以后再看;P
F35当然比F22先进啊，只是定位有所不同，所以技术F35>F22，空优F35<<<<<<<F22。
Heineken 发表于 2011-1-13 04:51 
翻译的同志将脏话大多省去，再者，他们的骂人方式不一样
翻译的同志将脏话大多省去，再者，他们的骂人方式不一样
F35>F22>J20>F35？
F35优于F22？那为什么美国人满世界推销F35却在国内立法禁止出售F22呢