越南战争的一些事实

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/28 04:03:50
Chinese threats to intervene in Laos figured prominently in the US
decision in May 1962 to "neutralize" Laos.
One of the key reasons why US
leaders ruled out the use of US troops to occupy the Laotian panhandle (this
was the military alternative to the political solution of neutralization) was a
belief that North Vietnam and China would strongly resist such a move

"US aggressive moves in Southeast Asia are a serious threat to the security of China.
The Chinese people cannot remain indifferent to this. . . . The Chinese people
firmly oppose US imperialist armed intervention in Laos, and absolutely cannot
tolerate the establishment by US imperialism in areas close to China of any new
military bridgeheads directed against this country. ... We must serve a fresh
warning to the Kennedy Administration that it shall be held fully responsible for
all grave consequences arising from its policy of playing with fire."

These were strong words. Not as hard or as blunt as those used by
Beijing in the final weeks before its entry into the Korean conflict, but strong
enough to convey Beijing's belief that China's own security was involved and
that China might consider war to deal with these threats. Just as important,
Beijing's verbal warnings were backed up by a concentration of Chinese
military forces in southern China adjacent to Laos."

Confronted by the possibility of waging a land war with China in the
interior of the Indochina peninsula, Washington retreated to the neutralization
alternative.


1962年,美军企图进攻老挝,切断北越共产党从老挝援助南越反政府武装的补给路线,中国得知后,警告美国,美国为避免在老挝和越南再跟中国打一场朝鲜战争翻版,放弃了进攻老挝的计划.


As US bombing of North Vietnam escalated in 1965-66, the Chinese
and US Ambassadors to Poland discussed the Vietnam situation. (Ambas-
sadorial talks in Warsaw begun in 1955 and continuing through 1971 were the
main conduit for Sino-American communication during that period.) At those
talks US representatives assured China that American aims were limited to
compelling Hanoi to forgo the conquest of South Vietnam and did not seek
the destruction of the North Vietnamese regime. It is widely believed that by
November 1965 the two sides(Chinese and Americans) had reached a tacit understanding
that, as long as US forces did not invade North Vietnam or attack China, China would not
directly enter the war.
" Even if such an understanding was reached, however,
it could have been undone by events. As long as China and the United States remained at
swords' points, leaders of both countries moved cautiously to avoid a second Sino-US war.
Both sides sought to avoid a war by misperception and miscalculation as had happened in Korea.


美国和中国在1965-1966年通过外交斡旋,基本达成了默认的共识:美军只要不入侵(地面入侵)北越,中国就不会直接介入越南战争(出兵南越).

后来的形式也是如此,美军只在南越应付北越过来的越共游击队,即便北越正面进攻,也不侵入北越国境,只靠轰炸来压制北越.

而中国也没有直接出兵南越,只派了30万工程兵和防空部队,帮助北越防空和提供后勤保障.

Navy and Marine aircraft joined fully in the bombing of North Vietnam, all the more so because American fears of Chinese intervention restricted the Air Force's heavy B?bombers to a very limited role in North Vietnam for much of the Vietnam War.


美国由于惧怕中国出兵越南,因此整个越南战争期间,美军空军对北越的军事打击很有限. 

可见,中国提供了200亿美元(当时币值,大改相当于现在2000亿美元)的军事援助,30万志愿军入越之外,在政治和外交上对越南的支持,也是越南能统一的关键.

资料出处:全部是美国官方研究的资料
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usa ... 2/1992%20garver.pdf
http://www.paperlessarchives.com/vw__usaf.html
Chinese threats to intervene in Laos figured prominently in the US
decision in May 1962 to "neutralize" Laos.
One of the key reasons why US
leaders ruled out the use of US troops to occupy the Laotian panhandle (this
was the military alternative to the political solution of neutralization) was a
belief that North Vietnam and China would strongly resist such a move

"US aggressive moves in Southeast Asia are a serious threat to the security of China.
The Chinese people cannot remain indifferent to this. . . . The Chinese people
firmly oppose US imperialist armed intervention in Laos, and absolutely cannot
tolerate the establishment by US imperialism in areas close to China of any new
military bridgeheads directed against this country. ... We must serve a fresh
warning to the Kennedy Administration that it shall be held fully responsible for
all grave consequences arising from its policy of playing with fire."

These were strong words. Not as hard or as blunt as those used by
Beijing in the final weeks before its entry into the Korean conflict, but strong
enough to convey Beijing's belief that China's own security was involved and
that China might consider war to deal with these threats. Just as important,
Beijing's verbal warnings were backed up by a concentration of Chinese
military forces in southern China adjacent to Laos."

Confronted by the possibility of waging a land war with China in the
interior of the Indochina peninsula, Washington retreated to the neutralization
alternative.


1962年,美军企图进攻老挝,切断北越共产党从老挝援助南越反政府武装的补给路线,中国得知后,警告美国,美国为避免在老挝和越南再跟中国打一场朝鲜战争翻版,放弃了进攻老挝的计划.


As US bombing of North Vietnam escalated in 1965-66, the Chinese
and US Ambassadors to Poland discussed the Vietnam situation. (Ambas-
sadorial talks in Warsaw begun in 1955 and continuing through 1971 were the
main conduit for Sino-American communication during that period.) At those
talks US representatives assured China that American aims were limited to
compelling Hanoi to forgo the conquest of South Vietnam and did not seek
the destruction of the North Vietnamese regime. It is widely believed that by
November 1965 the two sides(Chinese and Americans) had reached a tacit understanding
that, as long as US forces did not invade North Vietnam or attack China, China would not
directly enter the war.
" Even if such an understanding was reached, however,
it could have been undone by events. As long as China and the United States remained at
swords' points, leaders of both countries moved cautiously to avoid a second Sino-US war.
Both sides sought to avoid a war by misperception and miscalculation as had happened in Korea.


美国和中国在1965-1966年通过外交斡旋,基本达成了默认的共识:美军只要不入侵(地面入侵)北越,中国就不会直接介入越南战争(出兵南越).

后来的形式也是如此,美军只在南越应付北越过来的越共游击队,即便北越正面进攻,也不侵入北越国境,只靠轰炸来压制北越.

而中国也没有直接出兵南越,只派了30万工程兵和防空部队,帮助北越防空和提供后勤保障.

Navy and Marine aircraft joined fully in the bombing of North Vietnam, all the more so because American fears of Chinese intervention restricted the Air Force's heavy B?bombers to a very limited role in North Vietnam for much of the Vietnam War.


美国由于惧怕中国出兵越南,因此整个越南战争期间,美军空军对北越的军事打击很有限. 

可见,中国提供了200亿美元(当时币值,大改相当于现在2000亿美元)的军事援助,30万志愿军入越之外,在政治和外交上对越南的支持,也是越南能统一的关键.

资料出处:全部是美国官方研究的资料
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usa ... 2/1992%20garver.pdf
http://www.paperlessarchives.com/vw__usaf.html
有用吗?喂大一只白眼狼
超级平凡人 发表于 2009-12-26 11:06

有用,提醒子孙以后别再犯这傻了,另外可以在越南猴子吹牛时,给它们泼泼冷水
远交近攻,古人云~

援越,当时也是不可不为,免的腹背受敌吧~现在的越南,总比听美国话的南越,对中国威胁小吧~
其实从当时的环境来看,  还是有用的,  不过时过境迁之后,  那又是另外一件事了:)
世界第三军事强国越南,在这里可是有很多“客观冷静人士”系列粉丝的,楼主怎么能如此横蛮的打断人家的YY呢
越南为啥没有像朝鲜那样一分为二呢
加力吹力250千牛 发表于 2009-12-26 11:09

南海开发 是给越南一个机会。如果越南不知好歹,死要面子,我们就让他活受罪。
lenovo1985 发表于 2009-12-26 11:09

TG可以对越南放任不管,让苏联和东欧去当这个冤大头去,越南战争时期,甚至更早的越-法战争时期,中国完全可以跟法国或美国做交易,换取南海之类的利益.
现在看来,应该让越南 朝鲜化。有限度支持。保北越独立,不支持两越统一。
猴子如果处于分裂状态。不知南海的问题又会呈什么局势,肯定会更有意思。
猴子真要分裂了,肯定是内讧烈于外交,也就无暇顾及南海海域了,这块肥肉TG应该能顺手拿下吧.
忘记了远交近攻祖训的历史教训

如何分而治之,TG要多向历史上的英国学习
拖倒了米帝这个第一强国,和西方全面缓和,极大的改善了被苏联和美国两面夹击的战略态势。
没有越南战争的失败,美国能和TG妥协?尼克松能访问和当时没有任何正式外交关系的TG?TG能顺利重返联合国?
当时越南战争的胜利者虽然还有月供和毛子,可惜毛子不到20后就完蛋了,月供虽然做了几年“第三强国”和“印支联邦”的白日梦,毛子一倒还不是树倒猢狲散,今天还不是一个猴子群里的瘦猴子。
看问题要全面,不要只看见丢了一把芝麻就忘了捡了个西瓜。
说关于越南的得失,我觉得最大的反而是90年代和越南和解得太仓促了,本来完全可以借毛子倒台,猴子走投无路的机会解决南沙问题的。
不管怎么说...支援越南总比不支援的好...让南越统一了的话现在南海问题还不知道是什么样呢?
因为斯大林死了,所以中国没有在朝鲜继续和美国人打下去.
当时美国已经快撑不住了,一半的陆军和空军,2/3的海军陆战队,全堆在朝鲜,在不断的拉锯中被消耗.
而美国的主要利益----欧洲只有20多万的陆军,平均每个美国兵要对付5个苏联红军战士,而每辆坦克要面对10辆以上的红军坦克.这是美国焦虑的原因,也是斯大林的高明之处.可惜啊......
所以,老毛心里一直有个心病,觉得对不起金胖子,对不起牺牲的志愿军战士(也包括他儿子)
也因此,在捐助越南这个事情上,中国是举国之力来支援的.
猴子最好南北分化成2个国家,于中于美都有利
回复 16# 天龙之舞


   为啥太祖觉得对不起老金胖子啊,不帮他可能早亡国了
=Enterprise= 发表于 2009-12-26 12:06


    南越如果存在,美国很大程度在金兰湾呆着,甚至在南越“国土”----南沙,甚至西沙呆着。
只是伤感,一将功成万骨枯,可怜那些牺牲的战士,二十出头,风华正茂,犹是春闺梦里人,过多少年,这样的叹息总是一个声调
不管是南越统一还是南北越分裂,南海都会有美国的军事存在
TG当时应该适当援助,保持两个越南这对我们最有利!
不过这个度很难估计,外加上太祖当年一股子解放世界人民的劲,错过了机会。
“所以,老毛心里一直有个心病,觉得对不起金胖子,对不起牺牲的志愿军战士。”
对不起金胖子?楼主是朝鲜族?
正是因为朝鲜战争的巨大牺牲,所以中国不愿意直接卷入越南战争,也是因为不想出兵,所以在物质援助上也比较尽心。实际上从成本收益之比来看,TG才是越南战争最大的赢家。
红色俱乐部 发表于 2009-12-26 12:22

这倒是,我怎么没想到,看来还是越南统一好一点{:3_90:}
kyoukini 发表于 2009-12-26 12:53

毛子才是最大赢家吧,米国陷入越战泥潭,对毛子的全球战略才最有利
可惜我们80年代海空力量太弱,要不就把猴子一锅烩了,也不会有今天的麻烦。
本来毛子是最大赢家,可是后来的毛子不争气,直接解体了,上百年的经营都连本带利吐了个干净
冷雨夜 发表于 2009-12-26 12:55


    单纯的说越南共产党的收益也是很大的,毕竟从一个河内都没统治过逐步进化到了统治一半越南,整个越南甚至小霸到印度支那威胁泰国的程度,
苏联算是个投入小收益大的主了,其实苏联主要投入还是越南战争的后期了,而且人员死亡也比较少,都是单纯的武器装备投入,还整回美国导弹和重要的战争经验(整体说苏联武器在越南的运用算是比较成功的,战果都还比较好看)后期甚至苏联势力渗入东南亚也是不小的收获,当然最后苏联解体一夜回到解放前。。。。
总体冷战时期,东南亚的冲突算是比较单纯的意识形态冲突,所以冷战结束,东南亚立即能够回归和平,而这个明显不同于中东局势
朝战积下的余威 让TG可以告诉MD这是我的势力范围.
放下越南不说,之后的红色高棉,中国的对越反击战,都值得我们反思.
有什么利啊……如果保持两个越南,只会让南越和南韩一样有美帝的驻军而已,那么中国的南海更没啥希望了。
挂幌子 发表于 2009-12-26 11:13

因为美国撤出了南越
pheonix 发表于 2009-12-26 11:48
看看现在的北棒对TG怎么样啊,不能看到了结果来推翻过程.
挂幌子 发表于 2009-12-26 11:13


    是啊要是越南一分为二,那79年就太平多了
自欺欺人 发表于 2009-12-26 13:28

79年怎么干起来的?说道说道
越南是TG永远的疼,至今还没忘记。。
真TMD能胡扯 都是仙人 60年代就能预测到越南要惹事 来 给哥预测一下明年哪只股票能涨?
耀斑 发表于 2009-12-26 13:56


    不是预测~~只是觉得要吸取下教训而已~~花费那么大养了只白眼狼~
stealth 发表于 2009-12-26 14:25

其实越南还好,总算还是把老美给牵制住了,援助波尔布特的红色高棉才是彻头彻尾的赔本买卖。
不在越南搞痛美国,美国兵就还会在金兰湾,南海更没戏。美国不是被拖得累了,也不会来拉拢中国对抗苏联。
最重要的是,美国兵大概还会在台湾继续呆下去。