超级军网美空地勤谈维护
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/28 23:34:42
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1btj4d/
龙腾
IAMA Fighter jet mechanic that has worked F-22, F-16, F-117 and A-10 aircraft. Ask me almost anything. (self.IAmA)
我是个战斗机机械师，维护过F22，F16，F117。尽管提问吧。
submitted 2 天 ago* by Nicelysedated[S]
Nicelysedated提交于2天前
I am a 15 year veteran that has been around the world working these planes. I will answer anything I can that doesn't touch on anything sensitive.
我是一个15年的老兵，一直在世界各地与这些飞机工作。我会回答任何我能回答的事情，但是注意不要问敏感问题。
EDIT Dont know if this is enough proof. Some things I've gathered in my travels. Verification
不知道这能不能足够证明，有些事是我旅途中收集到的。
WOW! Didn't expect this level of response.
哇！没想到这么多回复。
Just to clarify, I HAVE NOT TOUCHED a F-35. I have seen one. Anything I say about the the F-35 is my opinion based off experience from aircraft I've worked.
澄清一下，我从来没有接触过F35，我曾经看见过一架。我说的任何关于F35的话都是基于我战机维护工作的个人观点。
（下面是F22，F16，A10的维基百科。）
Wiki for the F-22: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor
Wiki for the F-16: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Wiki for the A-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II
More then a few people have asked me how to get into aviation maintenance. Obviously, the military is one way. The civilian side requires schools and a license from the FAA called an Airframe and Powerplant license. I have not worked civilian aviation and never plan too. The job market is volatile and a good diesel mechanic makes more in a lot of places.
有些人问我如何进入航空维护部门。显然，军队是一条路子。民用方面需要学校和来自美国联邦航空局的证书——机身和动力维护许可证。我没在民用航空工作过，也从不打算这么做。就业市场不是很稳定，一个好的柴油机械师能在很多地方赚得更多。
EDIT I was a little harsh on pilots. They are people just like anyone else that make mistakes. I have met a few in my time that are awesome people. I had a commander that spent 6 months as an Iraqi POW and was one of the most caring and awesome people I've ever met. He would takeoff late to sit and explain what he was doing on a mission because he felt it was important to know what our work accomplished.
我对飞行员有一点苛刻。他们也是人，也会犯错误。我也遇到过非常棒的几个人。我有个上司曾经在伊拉克被俘监禁6个月，他是我见过的最有爱心和最棒的人。他会在任务过程中要求延迟起飞，并说明他要做什么，因为他觉得弄清工作完成情况是非常重要的。
Ryukuruyu
Did you find satisfaction in your job?
你觉得你对这份工作满意吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
Most of the time. I don't agree with everything that I have to do, but I'm not a policy maker.
大多数时候是的。有些工作中的事情我并不认同，但是我不是老大。
buddy_b_easy
Can you give an example of something that you disagree about?
你能给个例子么？关于那些你不认同的事情。
Nicelysedated[S]
Where our country focuses it efforts at time. Spent a lot of time in sandy places with lots of oil around helping people that hate us.
我们国家有时为了保持影响力花了大量的时间去帮助石油丰富的沙漠地区人民，而这些人仇视我们。
Reformed_Asshole
Bahrain much?
巴林怎么样？
Nicelysedated[S]
You do not know what it is to sweat until you've been to Bahrain..
你根本不知道什么是流汗除非你身在巴林。
Reformed_Asshole
Is it worse than Singapore or Korea in Summer?
比新加坡和韩国的夏天更糟？
Nicelysedated[S]
Haven't been to those in the summer, but I can't imagine they could be worse
没有在夏天去过新加坡和韩国，不过我觉得他们不会更糟。
Ayakalam
What so you think the policy should be instead?
那你觉得什么政策应该被修改？
DJCityQuamstyle
Four foot fall protection
四脚朝天跌落防护政策。
VioletViper
Might we have some proof?
Also, what would you say is the easiest to work on?
也许你有一些证据？
此外，你觉得工作中什么最简单？
Nicelysedated[S]
Working of verification with mods. F-16 would be the easiest to me, but I'm biased. It was the first jet I worked and the one I worked the longest.
模块的验证工作。F16是最简单的，不过可能是我的个人看法。它是我工作后接触的第一架机型，也是我为之工作时间最长的机型。
coffeegeek
Where were you stationed with F-16s? I spent a few years in Misawa...
你曾在哪儿驻扎过？我在日本三泽呆了一阵子。
Renegade8100
Do you get to test fly these jets after repairs?
你参与过战机修复后的飞行测试吗？
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1btj4d/
龙腾
IAMA Fighter jet mechanic that has worked F-22, F-16, F-117 and A-10 aircraft. Ask me almost anything. (self.IAmA)
我是个战斗机机械师，维护过F22，F16，F117。尽管提问吧。
submitted 2 天 ago* by Nicelysedated[S]
Nicelysedated提交于2天前
I am a 15 year veteran that has been around the world working these planes. I will answer anything I can that doesn't touch on anything sensitive.
我是一个15年的老兵，一直在世界各地与这些飞机工作。我会回答任何我能回答的事情，但是注意不要问敏感问题。
EDIT Dont know if this is enough proof. Some things I've gathered in my travels. Verification
不知道这能不能足够证明，有些事是我旅途中收集到的。
WOW! Didn't expect this level of response.
哇！没想到这么多回复。
Just to clarify, I HAVE NOT TOUCHED a F-35. I have seen one. Anything I say about the the F-35 is my opinion based off experience from aircraft I've worked.
澄清一下，我从来没有接触过F35，我曾经看见过一架。我说的任何关于F35的话都是基于我战机维护工作的个人观点。
（下面是F22，F16，A10的维基百科。）
Wiki for the F-22: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor
Wiki for the F-16: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Wiki for the A-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II
More then a few people have asked me how to get into aviation maintenance. Obviously, the military is one way. The civilian side requires schools and a license from the FAA called an Airframe and Powerplant license. I have not worked civilian aviation and never plan too. The job market is volatile and a good diesel mechanic makes more in a lot of places.
有些人问我如何进入航空维护部门。显然，军队是一条路子。民用方面需要学校和来自美国联邦航空局的证书——机身和动力维护许可证。我没在民用航空工作过，也从不打算这么做。就业市场不是很稳定，一个好的柴油机械师能在很多地方赚得更多。
EDIT I was a little harsh on pilots. They are people just like anyone else that make mistakes. I have met a few in my time that are awesome people. I had a commander that spent 6 months as an Iraqi POW and was one of the most caring and awesome people I've ever met. He would takeoff late to sit and explain what he was doing on a mission because he felt it was important to know what our work accomplished.
我对飞行员有一点苛刻。他们也是人，也会犯错误。我也遇到过非常棒的几个人。我有个上司曾经在伊拉克被俘监禁6个月，他是我见过的最有爱心和最棒的人。他会在任务过程中要求延迟起飞，并说明他要做什么，因为他觉得弄清工作完成情况是非常重要的。
Ryukuruyu
Did you find satisfaction in your job?
你觉得你对这份工作满意吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
Most of the time. I don't agree with everything that I have to do, but I'm not a policy maker.
大多数时候是的。有些工作中的事情我并不认同，但是我不是老大。
buddy_b_easy
Can you give an example of something that you disagree about?
你能给个例子么？关于那些你不认同的事情。
Nicelysedated[S]
Where our country focuses it efforts at time. Spent a lot of time in sandy places with lots of oil around helping people that hate us.
我们国家有时为了保持影响力花了大量的时间去帮助石油丰富的沙漠地区人民，而这些人仇视我们。
Reformed_Asshole
Bahrain much?
巴林怎么样？
Nicelysedated[S]
You do not know what it is to sweat until you've been to Bahrain..
你根本不知道什么是流汗除非你身在巴林。
Reformed_Asshole
Is it worse than Singapore or Korea in Summer?
比新加坡和韩国的夏天更糟？
Nicelysedated[S]
Haven't been to those in the summer, but I can't imagine they could be worse
没有在夏天去过新加坡和韩国，不过我觉得他们不会更糟。
Ayakalam
What so you think the policy should be instead?
那你觉得什么政策应该被修改？
DJCityQuamstyle
Four foot fall protection
四脚朝天跌落防护政策。
VioletViper
Might we have some proof?
Also, what would you say is the easiest to work on?
也许你有一些证据？
此外，你觉得工作中什么最简单？
Nicelysedated[S]
Working of verification with mods. F-16 would be the easiest to me, but I'm biased. It was the first jet I worked and the one I worked the longest.
模块的验证工作。F16是最简单的，不过可能是我的个人看法。它是我工作后接触的第一架机型，也是我为之工作时间最长的机型。
coffeegeek
Where were you stationed with F-16s? I spent a few years in Misawa...
你曾在哪儿驻扎过？我在日本三泽呆了一阵子。
Renegade8100
Do you get to test fly these jets after repairs?
你参与过战机修复后的飞行测试吗？
龙腾
IAMA Fighter jet mechanic that has worked F-22, F-16, F-117 and A-10 aircraft. Ask me almost anything. (self.IAmA)
我是个战斗机机械师，维护过F22，F16，F117。尽管提问吧。
submitted 2 天 ago* by Nicelysedated[S]
Nicelysedated提交于2天前
I am a 15 year veteran that has been around the world working these planes. I will answer anything I can that doesn't touch on anything sensitive.
我是一个15年的老兵，一直在世界各地与这些飞机工作。我会回答任何我能回答的事情，但是注意不要问敏感问题。
EDIT Dont know if this is enough proof. Some things I've gathered in my travels. Verification
不知道这能不能足够证明，有些事是我旅途中收集到的。
WOW! Didn't expect this level of response.
哇！没想到这么多回复。
Just to clarify, I HAVE NOT TOUCHED a F-35. I have seen one. Anything I say about the the F-35 is my opinion based off experience from aircraft I've worked.
澄清一下，我从来没有接触过F35，我曾经看见过一架。我说的任何关于F35的话都是基于我战机维护工作的个人观点。
（下面是F22，F16，A10的维基百科。）
Wiki for the F-22: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor
Wiki for the F-16: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Wiki for the A-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II
More then a few people have asked me how to get into aviation maintenance. Obviously, the military is one way. The civilian side requires schools and a license from the FAA called an Airframe and Powerplant license. I have not worked civilian aviation and never plan too. The job market is volatile and a good diesel mechanic makes more in a lot of places.
有些人问我如何进入航空维护部门。显然，军队是一条路子。民用方面需要学校和来自美国联邦航空局的证书——机身和动力维护许可证。我没在民用航空工作过，也从不打算这么做。就业市场不是很稳定，一个好的柴油机械师能在很多地方赚得更多。
EDIT I was a little harsh on pilots. They are people just like anyone else that make mistakes. I have met a few in my time that are awesome people. I had a commander that spent 6 months as an Iraqi POW and was one of the most caring and awesome people I've ever met. He would takeoff late to sit and explain what he was doing on a mission because he felt it was important to know what our work accomplished.
我对飞行员有一点苛刻。他们也是人，也会犯错误。我也遇到过非常棒的几个人。我有个上司曾经在伊拉克被俘监禁6个月，他是我见过的最有爱心和最棒的人。他会在任务过程中要求延迟起飞，并说明他要做什么，因为他觉得弄清工作完成情况是非常重要的。
Ryukuruyu
Did you find satisfaction in your job?
你觉得你对这份工作满意吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
Most of the time. I don't agree with everything that I have to do, but I'm not a policy maker.
大多数时候是的。有些工作中的事情我并不认同，但是我不是老大。
buddy_b_easy
Can you give an example of something that you disagree about?
你能给个例子么？关于那些你不认同的事情。
Nicelysedated[S]
Where our country focuses it efforts at time. Spent a lot of time in sandy places with lots of oil around helping people that hate us.
我们国家有时为了保持影响力花了大量的时间去帮助石油丰富的沙漠地区人民，而这些人仇视我们。
Reformed_Asshole
Bahrain much?
巴林怎么样？
Nicelysedated[S]
You do not know what it is to sweat until you've been to Bahrain..
你根本不知道什么是流汗除非你身在巴林。
Reformed_Asshole
Is it worse than Singapore or Korea in Summer?
比新加坡和韩国的夏天更糟？
Nicelysedated[S]
Haven't been to those in the summer, but I can't imagine they could be worse
没有在夏天去过新加坡和韩国，不过我觉得他们不会更糟。
Ayakalam
What so you think the policy should be instead?
那你觉得什么政策应该被修改？
DJCityQuamstyle
Four foot fall protection
四脚朝天跌落防护政策。
VioletViper
Might we have some proof?
Also, what would you say is the easiest to work on?
也许你有一些证据？
此外，你觉得工作中什么最简单？
Nicelysedated[S]
Working of verification with mods. F-16 would be the easiest to me, but I'm biased. It was the first jet I worked and the one I worked the longest.
模块的验证工作。F16是最简单的，不过可能是我的个人看法。它是我工作后接触的第一架机型，也是我为之工作时间最长的机型。
coffeegeek
Where were you stationed with F-16s? I spent a few years in Misawa...
你曾在哪儿驻扎过？我在日本三泽呆了一阵子。
Renegade8100
Do you get to test fly these jets after repairs?
你参与过战机修复后的飞行测试吗？
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1btj4d/
龙腾
IAMA Fighter jet mechanic that has worked F-22, F-16, F-117 and A-10 aircraft. Ask me almost anything. (self.IAmA)
我是个战斗机机械师，维护过F22，F16，F117。尽管提问吧。
submitted 2 天 ago* by Nicelysedated[S]
Nicelysedated提交于2天前
I am a 15 year veteran that has been around the world working these planes. I will answer anything I can that doesn't touch on anything sensitive.
我是一个15年的老兵，一直在世界各地与这些飞机工作。我会回答任何我能回答的事情，但是注意不要问敏感问题。
EDIT Dont know if this is enough proof. Some things I've gathered in my travels. Verification
不知道这能不能足够证明，有些事是我旅途中收集到的。
WOW! Didn't expect this level of response.
哇！没想到这么多回复。
Just to clarify, I HAVE NOT TOUCHED a F-35. I have seen one. Anything I say about the the F-35 is my opinion based off experience from aircraft I've worked.
澄清一下，我从来没有接触过F35，我曾经看见过一架。我说的任何关于F35的话都是基于我战机维护工作的个人观点。
（下面是F22，F16，A10的维基百科。）
Wiki for the F-22: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor
Wiki for the F-16: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Wiki for the A-10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II
More then a few people have asked me how to get into aviation maintenance. Obviously, the military is one way. The civilian side requires schools and a license from the FAA called an Airframe and Powerplant license. I have not worked civilian aviation and never plan too. The job market is volatile and a good diesel mechanic makes more in a lot of places.
有些人问我如何进入航空维护部门。显然，军队是一条路子。民用方面需要学校和来自美国联邦航空局的证书——机身和动力维护许可证。我没在民用航空工作过，也从不打算这么做。就业市场不是很稳定，一个好的柴油机械师能在很多地方赚得更多。
EDIT I was a little harsh on pilots. They are people just like anyone else that make mistakes. I have met a few in my time that are awesome people. I had a commander that spent 6 months as an Iraqi POW and was one of the most caring and awesome people I've ever met. He would takeoff late to sit and explain what he was doing on a mission because he felt it was important to know what our work accomplished.
我对飞行员有一点苛刻。他们也是人，也会犯错误。我也遇到过非常棒的几个人。我有个上司曾经在伊拉克被俘监禁6个月，他是我见过的最有爱心和最棒的人。他会在任务过程中要求延迟起飞，并说明他要做什么，因为他觉得弄清工作完成情况是非常重要的。
Ryukuruyu
Did you find satisfaction in your job?
你觉得你对这份工作满意吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
Most of the time. I don't agree with everything that I have to do, but I'm not a policy maker.
大多数时候是的。有些工作中的事情我并不认同，但是我不是老大。
buddy_b_easy
Can you give an example of something that you disagree about?
你能给个例子么？关于那些你不认同的事情。
Nicelysedated[S]
Where our country focuses it efforts at time. Spent a lot of time in sandy places with lots of oil around helping people that hate us.
我们国家有时为了保持影响力花了大量的时间去帮助石油丰富的沙漠地区人民，而这些人仇视我们。
Reformed_Asshole
Bahrain much?
巴林怎么样？
Nicelysedated[S]
You do not know what it is to sweat until you've been to Bahrain..
你根本不知道什么是流汗除非你身在巴林。
Reformed_Asshole
Is it worse than Singapore or Korea in Summer?
比新加坡和韩国的夏天更糟？
Nicelysedated[S]
Haven't been to those in the summer, but I can't imagine they could be worse
没有在夏天去过新加坡和韩国，不过我觉得他们不会更糟。
Ayakalam
What so you think the policy should be instead?
那你觉得什么政策应该被修改？
DJCityQuamstyle
Four foot fall protection
四脚朝天跌落防护政策。
VioletViper
Might we have some proof?
Also, what would you say is the easiest to work on?
也许你有一些证据？
此外，你觉得工作中什么最简单？
Nicelysedated[S]
Working of verification with mods. F-16 would be the easiest to me, but I'm biased. It was the first jet I worked and the one I worked the longest.
模块的验证工作。F16是最简单的，不过可能是我的个人看法。它是我工作后接触的第一架机型，也是我为之工作时间最长的机型。
coffeegeek
Where were you stationed with F-16s? I spent a few years in Misawa...
你曾在哪儿驻扎过？我在日本三泽呆了一阵子。
Renegade8100
Do you get to test fly these jets after repairs?
你参与过战机修复后的飞行测试吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
No. Very few repairs require test flights. All tests are done with ground equipment before they fly. I am an enlisted mechanic, all flying is done by commissioned officers.
没。很少有维修的飞机需要测试飞行。所有测试都会在起飞前由地面设备完成。我是个机械师，飞行都是由飞行员完成。
sarfreer
Are you sick of people asking when you'll get to fly them, or if you want to be a pilot?
当别人问你“你什么时候开飞机”，或“你想当飞行员吗”这样的问题时，你会很烦吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
The first thing people ask when I tell them I fix fighter jets....
"Cool, how often do you get to fly them"
I don't get upset anymore.
当我告诉别人我搞飞机维护的时候，他们通常会先问：
不错啊！你飞了多久了？
你说我还上什么火！
fsdsagihi
as an engineer of construction equipment, it's similar... if you fix something, you will most likely just write testing requirements for the machine. Not actually use it.
工程师路过，我搞建筑设备的，咱俩差不多...如果你修什么，你最多只是给它做个测试，不会真正去操作它。
fruitinspace
Do you at least get to go on an incentive ride occasionally?
至少你偶尔能来一把刺激的，坐一回驾驶座？
gaussweiss
But did you ever? In a trainer jet in the trainee seat, or something like that?
你没有这类经历？哪怕坐一回喷气教练机的见习座位或者其他类似的。
Nicelysedated[S]
Nope.
真心没有！
flowofthought
What's the best way to take one of these fighter jets down? Do they have any one major weakness in common? Like the Death Star or something?
揍下来一架飞机的最佳手段是什么？它们的要害相同吗？比如星球大战里的死星，或其他的
Nicelysedated[S]
Watch Iron Eagle.....All you ever needed to know about fighter jets.
去看《铁鹰战士》，那里面有你想了解的各种战机。
flowofthought
Awesome I will. What kind of training did you do before working on each model?
太棒了，我会的。你工作之前都需要进行什么样的培训？每种机型？
Nicelysedated[S]
2 months of Aircraft Fundamentals and 6 months of specific training for F-16's in tech school. Everything else was on the job and various schools throughout my time. Every new air frame was hands on training.
两个月的飞机基本原理学习，以及长达6个月的关于F-16的专项训练。其他方面的知识都是我靠自己的实际工作经验以及在各种各样的学校里面学来的。每种新的机身都得靠在实际的工作中掌握。
flowofthought
Interesting stuff thanks!
有趣的东西，多谢！
Mantan1701
I fucking love you now! Iron Eagle 1 fucking rules! Made me fall in love with the F-16. Fuck that Top Gun shit! DOUG MASTERS AND CHAPPY SINCLAIR RULE!
我爱死你了！《铁鹰战士1》让我疯狂地迷上了F-16！还有天杀的《壮志凌云》！道格·马斯特斯和查普·辛克莱！
Nicelysedated[S]
Lol thanks. That movie makes me cringe now after working on F-16's. SO many liberties taken with what they can do.
（笑脸），谢谢，那部电影（楼上提到的铁鹰战士）让我有点发怵，他们在干活时竟然那么逍遥自在
SkinThatSmokeWagon
Do F-16's now have inputs for ipods, or do you still have to strap a Walkman to your leg to get in the zone?
那么F16现在有Ipod接入口了吗？还是你需要带个随身听来让自己进入状态？
Nicelysedated[S
You can actually make an input for an iPod, but hooking an iPod up to a 35 Million dollar jet carrying classified information is frowned on. I will say that they DO NOT fire missiles on the ground intentionally, and a side scrolling LED indicator telling you a missile is coming would get you killed.
实际上你可以带一个ipod，但是不会有人建议在造价35000000美元且信息保密的喷气式飞机挂ipod，我敢说他们不会在地面故意发射导弹，但是一个偏转的LED指针会告诉你有一个导弹正在向你飞来并杀了你。（译者：可能接入ipod会使飞机错误报警
[deleted]
Actually, the pilots do indeed have ipod 'Y Cord' for long trans-oceanic flights. It's not official, but they do it.
For obvious reasons they don't use these cables over land, or on combat sorties.
实际上，在远程跨洋航班上飞行员确实有ipod的Y线，这不是官方的，但确实有。
很明显，在陆地上空或格斗架次他们不会使用这些电线
insanegenius
Mach 6? OK! I prefer les chevaliers du ciel.
马赫数6？OK! 我喜欢空中决战。(马赫数6就是6倍音速)
N0V0w3ls
Nice try, Kim Jong-Un.
Edit: to be completely serious, even if he knew this, there'd be no way he could answer without risking jail time.
不错的尝试， 金正恩
编辑：是认真的，即使他知道这一点，他不冒着坐牢的危险就没办法回答
NewQuisito
Nice try, North Korea!
不错的尝试，北朝鲜！
hudsterboy
Can you rap?
你能用rap唱出来？（译注：楼上的回复有点押韵，像rap歌词的风格）
Nicelysedated[S]
In the shower after a night of drinking maybe?
喝了一晚上的酒后，洗澡的时候估计可以（用rap唱出来）
samtheman578
I see you're a little biased towards the F-16, but from an engineer/mechanic's stance, which plane is your favorite and why? I personally love the A-10.
我看你有点偏向于F-16，但从工程师/技师的立场，哪种飞机是你最喜欢的，为什么？我个人喜欢A-10。
No. Very few repairs require test flights. All tests are done with ground equipment before they fly. I am an enlisted mechanic, all flying is done by commissioned officers.
没。很少有维修的飞机需要测试飞行。所有测试都会在起飞前由地面设备完成。我是个机械师，飞行都是由飞行员完成。
sarfreer
Are you sick of people asking when you'll get to fly them, or if you want to be a pilot?
当别人问你“你什么时候开飞机”，或“你想当飞行员吗”这样的问题时，你会很烦吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
The first thing people ask when I tell them I fix fighter jets....
"Cool, how often do you get to fly them"
I don't get upset anymore.
当我告诉别人我搞飞机维护的时候，他们通常会先问：
不错啊！你飞了多久了？
你说我还上什么火！
fsdsagihi
as an engineer of construction equipment, it's similar... if you fix something, you will most likely just write testing requirements for the machine. Not actually use it.
工程师路过，我搞建筑设备的，咱俩差不多...如果你修什么，你最多只是给它做个测试，不会真正去操作它。
fruitinspace
Do you at least get to go on an incentive ride occasionally?
至少你偶尔能来一把刺激的，坐一回驾驶座？
gaussweiss
But did you ever? In a trainer jet in the trainee seat, or something like that?
你没有这类经历？哪怕坐一回喷气教练机的见习座位或者其他类似的。
Nicelysedated[S]
Nope.
真心没有！
flowofthought
What's the best way to take one of these fighter jets down? Do they have any one major weakness in common? Like the Death Star or something?
揍下来一架飞机的最佳手段是什么？它们的要害相同吗？比如星球大战里的死星，或其他的
Nicelysedated[S]
Watch Iron Eagle.....All you ever needed to know about fighter jets.
去看《铁鹰战士》，那里面有你想了解的各种战机。
flowofthought
Awesome I will. What kind of training did you do before working on each model?
太棒了，我会的。你工作之前都需要进行什么样的培训？每种机型？
Nicelysedated[S]
2 months of Aircraft Fundamentals and 6 months of specific training for F-16's in tech school. Everything else was on the job and various schools throughout my time. Every new air frame was hands on training.
两个月的飞机基本原理学习，以及长达6个月的关于F-16的专项训练。其他方面的知识都是我靠自己的实际工作经验以及在各种各样的学校里面学来的。每种新的机身都得靠在实际的工作中掌握。
flowofthought
Interesting stuff thanks!
有趣的东西，多谢！
Mantan1701
I fucking love you now! Iron Eagle 1 fucking rules! Made me fall in love with the F-16. Fuck that Top Gun shit! DOUG MASTERS AND CHAPPY SINCLAIR RULE!
我爱死你了！《铁鹰战士1》让我疯狂地迷上了F-16！还有天杀的《壮志凌云》！道格·马斯特斯和查普·辛克莱！
Nicelysedated[S]
Lol thanks. That movie makes me cringe now after working on F-16's. SO many liberties taken with what they can do.
（笑脸），谢谢，那部电影（楼上提到的铁鹰战士）让我有点发怵，他们在干活时竟然那么逍遥自在
SkinThatSmokeWagon
Do F-16's now have inputs for ipods, or do you still have to strap a Walkman to your leg to get in the zone?
那么F16现在有Ipod接入口了吗？还是你需要带个随身听来让自己进入状态？
Nicelysedated[S
You can actually make an input for an iPod, but hooking an iPod up to a 35 Million dollar jet carrying classified information is frowned on. I will say that they DO NOT fire missiles on the ground intentionally, and a side scrolling LED indicator telling you a missile is coming would get you killed.
实际上你可以带一个ipod，但是不会有人建议在造价35000000美元且信息保密的喷气式飞机挂ipod，我敢说他们不会在地面故意发射导弹，但是一个偏转的LED指针会告诉你有一个导弹正在向你飞来并杀了你。（译者：可能接入ipod会使飞机错误报警
[deleted]
Actually, the pilots do indeed have ipod 'Y Cord' for long trans-oceanic flights. It's not official, but they do it.
For obvious reasons they don't use these cables over land, or on combat sorties.
实际上，在远程跨洋航班上飞行员确实有ipod的Y线，这不是官方的，但确实有。
很明显，在陆地上空或格斗架次他们不会使用这些电线
insanegenius
Mach 6? OK! I prefer les chevaliers du ciel.
马赫数6？OK! 我喜欢空中决战。(马赫数6就是6倍音速)
N0V0w3ls
Nice try, Kim Jong-Un.
Edit: to be completely serious, even if he knew this, there'd be no way he could answer without risking jail time.
不错的尝试， 金正恩
编辑：是认真的，即使他知道这一点，他不冒着坐牢的危险就没办法回答
NewQuisito
Nice try, North Korea!
不错的尝试，北朝鲜！
hudsterboy
Can you rap?
你能用rap唱出来？（译注：楼上的回复有点押韵，像rap歌词的风格）
Nicelysedated[S]
In the shower after a night of drinking maybe?
喝了一晚上的酒后，洗澡的时候估计可以（用rap唱出来）
samtheman578
I see you're a little biased towards the F-16, but from an engineer/mechanic's stance, which plane is your favorite and why? I personally love the A-10.
我看你有点偏向于F-16，但从工程师/技师的立场，哪种飞机是你最喜欢的，为什么？我个人喜欢A-10。
Nicelysedated[S]
That's a tough one. I would still go F-16. Ease of maintenance and it's wide arrange of abilities at a relatively low cost put it out front. The F-22 is a more lethal aircraft but it has a lot of things that make me stop and ask "WTF were they thinking". The A-10 is a close second because of its survivability and firepower.
这是一个艰难的抉择。我还是会去F-16。在一个相对较低的成本来说，它更易于维护并且具备多用途功能。F-22是更致命的飞机，但是它有很多事让我停下来想问“他们究竟在想些什么。”A-10紧随其后，因为它的存活能力和火力。
samtheman578
Could you elaborate a bit on the F-22 part? I really don't know as much about planes as I feel I should, but I've had a strange attraction to that plane as well.
你能详尽地描述一下F-22的部件吗？我真的不了解很多我觉得我应该了解的有关飞机的事。
Nicelysedated[S]
The F-22 was designed to perform first and foremost and to be easily maintained second. There are more then a few parts that are buried in the plane that the engineers figured would never need to be changed. They were very wrong.
F-22的设计主要是执行力，其次是易于维护。他们有很多工程师认为永远不需要改变的部件被飞机掩盖了。他们是错误的
mrsapphire
Are you referring to the difficulty involved in servicing and handling the hazmats which run some of the systems? I had a teacher who flew F-22s who mentioned that they had some very nasty shit in them but would never elaborate and it's next to impossible to find out what that kind of obscure and toxic materials are buried inside of them. All of the crashes resulted in hazmat cleanup and recovery as a #1 priority, i'm sure it's common procedure with all of the planes you work on, but it seems to be more pronounced with the F-22s.
你是指那些用操作系统参与维修和和处理危险物料的艰难吗？我曾有一个操作过F-22的老师提过有一些没有任何详细说明的危险物品就在其中。但是永远都不可能搞清楚存在哪些模糊的，有毒的物质在里面。所有的事故都导致了危险品的清理并且把恢复作为第一要务。我相信这是所有你工作过的飞机都有的程序，但是这个在F-22上更明显。
For those not familiar with the topic there's a great article about them here (and it even explicitly mentions the folks that service them) http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/stealth-pilots-coughing/
对那些不熟悉这个主题的人，这里有关于他们的非常详细的内容，（甚至明确的提到了他们服务的对象）http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/stealth-pilots-coughing/
Nicelysedated[S]
Every plane is chock full of hazardous chemicals. The F-22 is no worse then any other. The worst is probably the F-16. It has a chemical called hydrazine on it. Real nasty stuff. I was exposed to it a few times (by pilots playing with buttons they shouldn't have) and had to be blood tested every month for a year after exposure.
任何飞机上都存在危险化学物质，相比而言，F-22还不算很糟。最差劲的估计是F-16，那上面竟然有肼这种化学品，这东西实在够呛，我接触过几次（飞行员按错了按钮），结果一年之内，我每个月都要去做血液测试。
Teets
Hydrazine is rocket fuel and carcinogenic. What is this in a fighter for? Ejection seat? Please tell me it is the turbo boosters!
肼是致癌的火箭燃料。把它放在战斗机里作甚？弹射椅？你不会想说用来涡轮增压吧？
That's a tough one. I would still go F-16. Ease of maintenance and it's wide arrange of abilities at a relatively low cost put it out front. The F-22 is a more lethal aircraft but it has a lot of things that make me stop and ask "WTF were they thinking". The A-10 is a close second because of its survivability and firepower.
这是一个艰难的抉择。我还是会去F-16。在一个相对较低的成本来说，它更易于维护并且具备多用途功能。F-22是更致命的飞机，但是它有很多事让我停下来想问“他们究竟在想些什么。”A-10紧随其后，因为它的存活能力和火力。
samtheman578
Could you elaborate a bit on the F-22 part? I really don't know as much about planes as I feel I should, but I've had a strange attraction to that plane as well.
你能详尽地描述一下F-22的部件吗？我真的不了解很多我觉得我应该了解的有关飞机的事。
Nicelysedated[S]
The F-22 was designed to perform first and foremost and to be easily maintained second. There are more then a few parts that are buried in the plane that the engineers figured would never need to be changed. They were very wrong.
F-22的设计主要是执行力，其次是易于维护。他们有很多工程师认为永远不需要改变的部件被飞机掩盖了。他们是错误的
mrsapphire
Are you referring to the difficulty involved in servicing and handling the hazmats which run some of the systems? I had a teacher who flew F-22s who mentioned that they had some very nasty shit in them but would never elaborate and it's next to impossible to find out what that kind of obscure and toxic materials are buried inside of them. All of the crashes resulted in hazmat cleanup and recovery as a #1 priority, i'm sure it's common procedure with all of the planes you work on, but it seems to be more pronounced with the F-22s.
你是指那些用操作系统参与维修和和处理危险物料的艰难吗？我曾有一个操作过F-22的老师提过有一些没有任何详细说明的危险物品就在其中。但是永远都不可能搞清楚存在哪些模糊的，有毒的物质在里面。所有的事故都导致了危险品的清理并且把恢复作为第一要务。我相信这是所有你工作过的飞机都有的程序，但是这个在F-22上更明显。
For those not familiar with the topic there's a great article about them here (and it even explicitly mentions the folks that service them) http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/stealth-pilots-coughing/
对那些不熟悉这个主题的人，这里有关于他们的非常详细的内容，（甚至明确的提到了他们服务的对象）http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/stealth-pilots-coughing/
Nicelysedated[S]
Every plane is chock full of hazardous chemicals. The F-22 is no worse then any other. The worst is probably the F-16. It has a chemical called hydrazine on it. Real nasty stuff. I was exposed to it a few times (by pilots playing with buttons they shouldn't have) and had to be blood tested every month for a year after exposure.
任何飞机上都存在危险化学物质，相比而言，F-22还不算很糟。最差劲的估计是F-16，那上面竟然有肼这种化学品，这东西实在够呛，我接触过几次（飞行员按错了按钮），结果一年之内，我每个月都要去做血液测试。
Teets
Hydrazine is rocket fuel and carcinogenic. What is this in a fighter for? Ejection seat? Please tell me it is the turbo boosters!
肼是致癌的火箭燃料。把它放在战斗机里作甚？弹射椅？你不会想说用来涡轮增压吧？
Nicelysedated[S]
It powers an emergency generator.
这货是用来提供紧急电力的
Bicycle_fart
Ahh that's why they say never touch the red button, damn'd Hydrazine.
哦，怪不得说不要按红色键，天杀的肼
dog_in_the_vent
You were doing maintenance on the plane while the pilot was in the seat?
飞行员还没离机，你就去做检修？
Rabnudj
Recovering C-5 electrician now working on C-17s here. Working on the aircraft when pilots are in the seats is a pretty common thing actually. Sometimes, its a question, sometimes its a cycle of a circuit breaker and sometimes its telling them the plane is hard broke and they have to tail swap.
原C-5的电力检修工，现在给C-17干活的路过。飞行员在机上的时候搞检修这事很正常。有时只是小问题，有时电路环坏了，有时你得告诉他们飞机问题比较严重，让他们大修.
dog_in_the_vent
Yeah, we commonly have maintenance come on the plane to troubleshoot a problem. But we usually shut down and don't touch anything if they're actually working on it.
没错，我们在机上的时候，经常有检修过来查看，但当他们开始干活的时候，我们通常会关机，不去做任何操作。
Rabnudj
What aircraft do you fly? On cargo jets, depending on the problem, usually the engines are left running. I can tell you, personally, one of the worst feelings is telling the Aircraft Commander that the jet is hard broke and they have to tail swap. It really sucks if its a "must go" mission too.
你到底开过什么飞机？在运输机上，遇到这类事件，通常我们会关了发动机。我明确告诉你，就我个人而言，没有比告诉机长飞机坏了，需要 tail swap 还要糟糕的事情了。这确实很操蛋，如果必须这样做的话。
ozspook
Somebody has to stand on the brakes while you check the lights are working. :)
Quite a few planes contain Hydrazine, LOX, BCF, Benzene and Hydraulic Fluid
Nasty stuff.., but at least it's not C-Stoff & T-stoff.
一些人必须一边踩煞车一边检查灯是不是在正常工作。（笑）
只有一小部分的飞机包含肼、液态氧、溴氯二氟甲烷（灭火剂）、苯和液压油这些讨人厌的东西。
UhOhOreo2012
Isn't the F-22 also having oxygen issues inside the cockpit?
F-22不是也有驾驶员座舱内氧气（供给）的问题的么？
Boredlittlfucker
I believe that's the f-35's
我认为这是F-35的（问题）。
UhOhOreo2012
Thanks for the correction. I knew I was off on the model! haha
谢谢纠正。我知道我正处于（大脑）关闭模式！哈哈
Penguin-herder
Actually you are correct. The F-22 has issues with the oxygen breathers. IIRC, they had some issues with Freon being pumped into the breather.
事实上你是对的。F-22的氧气呼吸器有问题。如果我没记错，（这呼吸器）存在着氟利昂被吸入呼吸机的问题。
bru_tech
that article you linked is refering to the "Raptor Cough," which is related to oxygen use and the high speeds the machine operates at. doesn't mention hazardous materials though. I linked it to r/respiratorytherapy when the article came out and thought some CPAP (though i would have hoped the US air force would have thought the same) might help
你放的那个链接指的是“猛禽咳嗽”，这个现象与氧气的使用和高速运动时机器的运作有关，和有害物质并没有关系。文章发表的时候我把它链接到“呼吸疗法”这个链接上了，我觉得一些CPAP呼吸机（尽管我希望美国空军和我的想法一样）可以帮得上忙。
LinkFixerBot
/r/respiratorytherapy
呼吸疗法
Tron-Gorf
So it's like a 911 turbo.
所以这就像一个911涡轮一样。
Dosakaru
The CV-22 Osprey is the same way.. I hate it. So many things on this aircraft are just a huge pain in the ass to work on. I wish they would just scrap this program too.
CV-22鱼鹰也是一样的……我讨厌它。在这架飞机上进行的一切努力根本就是在进行一个巨大的麻烦。我希望他们也放弃这个计划。
FordSVT1
The F-22 was designed to perform first and foremost and to be easily maintained second.
Sounds like it was designed by Porsche.
F-22被设计出来就是为了让它成为第一和在最前列的机体，并且能够轻易保持第二。
听起来它（F-22）像是被保时捷公司设计出来的。
Fynn_the_Finger
As an acquisition professional, I can give you some ideas of what they were thinking:
1.Contractor decided they'd make more money that way.
2.Senior government employee who's not directly working for the contract, but holds influence heaped a pet project into it.
3.Requirements creep.
From an engineer's perspective: 1. It was the most cost efficient/effective way to to it. 2. Because fuck the user, that's why.
作为收购的专业人员，我能够给你一些他们正在想什么的看法：
1.订约人那样的决定使他们可以赚更多的钱。
2.高级政府雇员虽然不直接的为合约做事，但是他们在其中持有的影响力充满了整个项目。
3.要求的蔓延。
从工程师的角度来看：1.这样做是最具成本效益/有效的途径。2.因为去他妈的用户，这就是原因。
Nicelysedated[S]
The money we spend on things in the military is scary. The 30k toilet seat doesn't exist, but there are hundreds of screws, nuts, bolts that are hundreds of dollars on these planes.
我们在军事上花费的钱是可怕的。在这些飞机上30K的马桶虽然不存在，但是有成百上千个螺丝、螺母和螺栓，这些花费成百上千美元。
It powers an emergency generator.
这货是用来提供紧急电力的
Bicycle_fart
Ahh that's why they say never touch the red button, damn'd Hydrazine.
哦，怪不得说不要按红色键，天杀的肼
dog_in_the_vent
You were doing maintenance on the plane while the pilot was in the seat?
飞行员还没离机，你就去做检修？
Rabnudj
Recovering C-5 electrician now working on C-17s here. Working on the aircraft when pilots are in the seats is a pretty common thing actually. Sometimes, its a question, sometimes its a cycle of a circuit breaker and sometimes its telling them the plane is hard broke and they have to tail swap.
原C-5的电力检修工，现在给C-17干活的路过。飞行员在机上的时候搞检修这事很正常。有时只是小问题，有时电路环坏了，有时你得告诉他们飞机问题比较严重，让他们大修.
dog_in_the_vent
Yeah, we commonly have maintenance come on the plane to troubleshoot a problem. But we usually shut down and don't touch anything if they're actually working on it.
没错，我们在机上的时候，经常有检修过来查看，但当他们开始干活的时候，我们通常会关机，不去做任何操作。
Rabnudj
What aircraft do you fly? On cargo jets, depending on the problem, usually the engines are left running. I can tell you, personally, one of the worst feelings is telling the Aircraft Commander that the jet is hard broke and they have to tail swap. It really sucks if its a "must go" mission too.
你到底开过什么飞机？在运输机上，遇到这类事件，通常我们会关了发动机。我明确告诉你，就我个人而言，没有比告诉机长飞机坏了，需要 tail swap 还要糟糕的事情了。这确实很操蛋，如果必须这样做的话。
ozspook
Somebody has to stand on the brakes while you check the lights are working. :)
Quite a few planes contain Hydrazine, LOX, BCF, Benzene and Hydraulic Fluid
Nasty stuff.., but at least it's not C-Stoff & T-stoff.
一些人必须一边踩煞车一边检查灯是不是在正常工作。（笑）
只有一小部分的飞机包含肼、液态氧、溴氯二氟甲烷（灭火剂）、苯和液压油这些讨人厌的东西。
UhOhOreo2012
Isn't the F-22 also having oxygen issues inside the cockpit?
F-22不是也有驾驶员座舱内氧气（供给）的问题的么？
Boredlittlfucker
I believe that's the f-35's
我认为这是F-35的（问题）。
UhOhOreo2012
Thanks for the correction. I knew I was off on the model! haha
谢谢纠正。我知道我正处于（大脑）关闭模式！哈哈
Penguin-herder
Actually you are correct. The F-22 has issues with the oxygen breathers. IIRC, they had some issues with Freon being pumped into the breather.
事实上你是对的。F-22的氧气呼吸器有问题。如果我没记错，（这呼吸器）存在着氟利昂被吸入呼吸机的问题。
bru_tech
that article you linked is refering to the "Raptor Cough," which is related to oxygen use and the high speeds the machine operates at. doesn't mention hazardous materials though. I linked it to r/respiratorytherapy when the article came out and thought some CPAP (though i would have hoped the US air force would have thought the same) might help
你放的那个链接指的是“猛禽咳嗽”，这个现象与氧气的使用和高速运动时机器的运作有关，和有害物质并没有关系。文章发表的时候我把它链接到“呼吸疗法”这个链接上了，我觉得一些CPAP呼吸机（尽管我希望美国空军和我的想法一样）可以帮得上忙。
LinkFixerBot
/r/respiratorytherapy
呼吸疗法
Tron-Gorf
So it's like a 911 turbo.
所以这就像一个911涡轮一样。
Dosakaru
The CV-22 Osprey is the same way.. I hate it. So many things on this aircraft are just a huge pain in the ass to work on. I wish they would just scrap this program too.
CV-22鱼鹰也是一样的……我讨厌它。在这架飞机上进行的一切努力根本就是在进行一个巨大的麻烦。我希望他们也放弃这个计划。
FordSVT1
The F-22 was designed to perform first and foremost and to be easily maintained second.
Sounds like it was designed by Porsche.
F-22被设计出来就是为了让它成为第一和在最前列的机体，并且能够轻易保持第二。
听起来它（F-22）像是被保时捷公司设计出来的。
Fynn_the_Finger
As an acquisition professional, I can give you some ideas of what they were thinking:
1.Contractor decided they'd make more money that way.
2.Senior government employee who's not directly working for the contract, but holds influence heaped a pet project into it.
3.Requirements creep.
From an engineer's perspective: 1. It was the most cost efficient/effective way to to it. 2. Because fuck the user, that's why.
作为收购的专业人员，我能够给你一些他们正在想什么的看法：
1.订约人那样的决定使他们可以赚更多的钱。
2.高级政府雇员虽然不直接的为合约做事，但是他们在其中持有的影响力充满了整个项目。
3.要求的蔓延。
从工程师的角度来看：1.这样做是最具成本效益/有效的途径。2.因为去他妈的用户，这就是原因。
Nicelysedated[S]
The money we spend on things in the military is scary. The 30k toilet seat doesn't exist, but there are hundreds of screws, nuts, bolts that are hundreds of dollars on these planes.
我们在军事上花费的钱是可怕的。在这些飞机上30K的马桶虽然不存在，但是有成百上千个螺丝、螺母和螺栓，这些花费成百上千美元。
straighttoplaid
As an engineer, every once and a while you need that $100 bolt. I'm not saying that they aren't used sometimes when they don't need to be but in aerospace sometimes you need a very specific metal in a very specific size to make something work. Usually the problem is performance at temperature, either the normal metal gets too soft, it creeps over time, or it expands too much/too little. The requirement could even be something that has nothing to do with normal operation. There are parts in military and civilian aircraft that have to be literally set on fire for a certain period of time without failing. Normal bolts may work fine for all normal conditions but because of that fire requirement you can't use them.
This forces you to use bolts made of some crazy unobtanium that is an absolute pain to work rather than an off the shelf bolt.
作为一个工程师，每隔一段时间你需要100美元螺栓。我不是说它们不需要的时候就不使用，但在航空航天时，有时你需要特定尺寸的特定金属使一些东西工作。通常的问题是有关温度的性能，无论是普通金属随着时间的推移逐渐膨胀变得太软，还是膨胀的太多/太少。这样的要求甚至是与正常操作无关的一些事情。在特定时期军用和民用飞机上的有关部分必须真正的点火，不能失败。普通情况下普通螺栓可能工作的很好，但是由于点火的要求，你不能使用它们。这迫使你使用由一些疯狂的超导体制作的螺栓，这绝对是比使用现成的螺栓更痛苦。
Fynn_the_Finger
I work on high end antennas. One day I had the choice between just accepting the contractor's proposal to use 5 $60 washers, or paying them several hundred dollars to put together a justification to use the 5 $60 since it's a cost reimbursable contract and the engineers aren't cheap and they're slow when you ask them to do something they don't want to. Then of course the report has to go through management review, probably at least two layers. Then we apply overhead, cost of money, general and administrative, and fee, and before we know it, my question could cost way more than the washers ever would (and they'd still probably use the washers).
我的工作和高级天线有关。有一次，我有两个选择，是接受承包商的建议使用560的垫圈（这里不知道是多少啊！）美元的垫圈，还是把几百美元放在一起支付给他们。使用5 60美元垫圈的理由是补偿合同和工程师并不便宜，当你要求他们做一些他们不想做的事的时候，他们行动很慢。当然，这报告还必须通过至少两层的管理评审。然后，我们的开销，资金成本，行政费用就会超标，而且，在我们清楚之前，（解决）我的疑问所导致的开销就可能超过垫圈（甚至（到最后）他们可能仍然使用垫圈）。
Nicelysedated[S]
If you want to be rich, make something you can sell the government. I'll leave it at that.
如果你想变富，制造东西卖给政府，等着看吧
notathr0waway1
cost of money
I know what that means but that sounds funny.
我知道什么意思，但是听起来太可笑了
Ozigal
$800 hand soap dispenser. IMO, go toand steal one and tape it inside the lavatory (Heavy guy here).
800美元的洗手液瓶。去偷个胶在厕所吧（沉重的家伙）
ObservoMatic
Are they going to get rid of the A10? Didn't they try before but the services wanted them and fought to keep them? Love that crazy plane... and I'm a far left wing anti-imperialist.
I'm assuming they want to dump it because the aerospace companies don't make as much money cranking out the same old simple-to-make a10 as they would desgning and building fancypants new junk like the JSF.... I'm very interested in your thoughts on this!
他们准备弃用A10么？他们之前不是试图弃用，但在后勤部门的抗争下保留A10了么？我喜欢那疯狂的飞机……并且，我是极左翼反帝国主义者。
我推测他们想要倾销这款飞机是因为，宇宙航空公司从他们将要设计和建造的如JSF那样的花哨的垃圾货身上赚到的钱，没有老A10这款制造简单的机体赚到的钱多……我对于你在这个问题上的想法非常感兴趣！
Nicelysedated[S]
The JSF is supposed to phase out the A-10. Will it be as able? Guess we will find out.
JSF应该可以淘汰A10。这种事会发生么？我们大概会知道的。
ObservoMatic
Thanks Mr. Sedated,
Since the JSF seems to be having.... shall we say... ahme....problems, is there talk of making more A10s, or extending the lives of the existing ones?
Sedated先生，谢谢你，
自从JSF好像……应该说……恩……出了问题，他们有讨论过制造更多A10或者延长现有飞机的使用年限？
Nicelysedated[S]
Lol. You make it sound like it has an STD. They extended the life of the A-10 already and it will be around for a long while still. There hasn't been one made since 1981 and I doubt they would ever make an older airframe while they are producing new ones.
哈哈哈。听你这么一说好像它（JSF）有性病一样。他们已经延长了A10的使用寿命，并且它仍然会被使用较长时间。自从1981年，就再也没有造过一台了，并且我认为他们正在生产新飞机的同时，是不会制造旧机体的。
ObservoMatic
I like the a10, the boys in the shit like the a10, what is the hold up here!!
Thanks again and good luck twisting those bolts!
我喜欢A10，（后面两短句没懂）
再次谢谢，并且祝你扭螺丝的时候好运！
As an engineer, every once and a while you need that $100 bolt. I'm not saying that they aren't used sometimes when they don't need to be but in aerospace sometimes you need a very specific metal in a very specific size to make something work. Usually the problem is performance at temperature, either the normal metal gets too soft, it creeps over time, or it expands too much/too little. The requirement could even be something that has nothing to do with normal operation. There are parts in military and civilian aircraft that have to be literally set on fire for a certain period of time without failing. Normal bolts may work fine for all normal conditions but because of that fire requirement you can't use them.
This forces you to use bolts made of some crazy unobtanium that is an absolute pain to work rather than an off the shelf bolt.
作为一个工程师，每隔一段时间你需要100美元螺栓。我不是说它们不需要的时候就不使用，但在航空航天时，有时你需要特定尺寸的特定金属使一些东西工作。通常的问题是有关温度的性能，无论是普通金属随着时间的推移逐渐膨胀变得太软，还是膨胀的太多/太少。这样的要求甚至是与正常操作无关的一些事情。在特定时期军用和民用飞机上的有关部分必须真正的点火，不能失败。普通情况下普通螺栓可能工作的很好，但是由于点火的要求，你不能使用它们。这迫使你使用由一些疯狂的超导体制作的螺栓，这绝对是比使用现成的螺栓更痛苦。
Fynn_the_Finger
I work on high end antennas. One day I had the choice between just accepting the contractor's proposal to use 5 $60 washers, or paying them several hundred dollars to put together a justification to use the 5 $60 since it's a cost reimbursable contract and the engineers aren't cheap and they're slow when you ask them to do something they don't want to. Then of course the report has to go through management review, probably at least two layers. Then we apply overhead, cost of money, general and administrative, and fee, and before we know it, my question could cost way more than the washers ever would (and they'd still probably use the washers).
我的工作和高级天线有关。有一次，我有两个选择，是接受承包商的建议使用560的垫圈（这里不知道是多少啊！）美元的垫圈，还是把几百美元放在一起支付给他们。使用5 60美元垫圈的理由是补偿合同和工程师并不便宜，当你要求他们做一些他们不想做的事的时候，他们行动很慢。当然，这报告还必须通过至少两层的管理评审。然后，我们的开销，资金成本，行政费用就会超标，而且，在我们清楚之前，（解决）我的疑问所导致的开销就可能超过垫圈（甚至（到最后）他们可能仍然使用垫圈）。
Nicelysedated[S]
If you want to be rich, make something you can sell the government. I'll leave it at that.
如果你想变富，制造东西卖给政府，等着看吧
notathr0waway1
cost of money
I know what that means but that sounds funny.
我知道什么意思，但是听起来太可笑了
Ozigal
$800 hand soap dispenser. IMO, go toand steal one and tape it inside the lavatory (Heavy guy here).
800美元的洗手液瓶。去偷个胶在厕所吧（沉重的家伙）
ObservoMatic
Are they going to get rid of the A10? Didn't they try before but the services wanted them and fought to keep them? Love that crazy plane... and I'm a far left wing anti-imperialist.
I'm assuming they want to dump it because the aerospace companies don't make as much money cranking out the same old simple-to-make a10 as they would desgning and building fancypants new junk like the JSF.... I'm very interested in your thoughts on this!
他们准备弃用A10么？他们之前不是试图弃用，但在后勤部门的抗争下保留A10了么？我喜欢那疯狂的飞机……并且，我是极左翼反帝国主义者。
我推测他们想要倾销这款飞机是因为，宇宙航空公司从他们将要设计和建造的如JSF那样的花哨的垃圾货身上赚到的钱，没有老A10这款制造简单的机体赚到的钱多……我对于你在这个问题上的想法非常感兴趣！
Nicelysedated[S]
The JSF is supposed to phase out the A-10. Will it be as able? Guess we will find out.
JSF应该可以淘汰A10。这种事会发生么？我们大概会知道的。
ObservoMatic
Thanks Mr. Sedated,
Since the JSF seems to be having.... shall we say... ahme....problems, is there talk of making more A10s, or extending the lives of the existing ones?
Sedated先生，谢谢你，
自从JSF好像……应该说……恩……出了问题，他们有讨论过制造更多A10或者延长现有飞机的使用年限？
Nicelysedated[S]
Lol. You make it sound like it has an STD. They extended the life of the A-10 already and it will be around for a long while still. There hasn't been one made since 1981 and I doubt they would ever make an older airframe while they are producing new ones.
哈哈哈。听你这么一说好像它（JSF）有性病一样。他们已经延长了A10的使用寿命，并且它仍然会被使用较长时间。自从1981年，就再也没有造过一台了，并且我认为他们正在生产新飞机的同时，是不会制造旧机体的。
ObservoMatic
I like the a10, the boys in the shit like the a10, what is the hold up here!!
Thanks again and good luck twisting those bolts!
我喜欢A10，（后面两短句没懂）
再次谢谢，并且祝你扭螺丝的时候好运！
TheMasque
I imagine all fighter jets to be relatively fragile things flying around in the sky. Could you explain to us exactly how survivable the A-10 is? Could it withstand, say, an RPG?
我觉得所有在天空飞行的战斗机相对来说都是比较脆弱的。你能说明下A10的强度如何吗？比如，A10能经得住RPG的一击吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
They aren't fragile. Pulling 9g's with missiles hanging on the wing is a lot of stress.
他们并不脆弱。最大过载9G，机翼上挂载导弹，这可是要承受很大压力的。
（译注：G就是地球上的重力加速度。战机最大过载9G，意思是这款战机最大能够承受9倍的重力加速度，超过9G，就可能造成飞机解体。）
ObservoMatic
There's a ton of stuff on the web about a10 durability... some crazy pics of planes that limped home that you cannot believe could even fly.
网络上有一大堆关于A10耐久性的信息……有些图片太疯狂，看着（A10）一瘸一拐地返回的样子，你没法相信它还能飞。
freemarket27
Do you work on drone aircraft?
你维护过无人机么？
Nicelysedated[S]
I have not.
没有。
xj13361987
Did the AFSC change over affect you at all? It got me since I am a fighter guy at an AFSOC base. Now I am stuck on RPAs for awhile.
空军系统司令部（AFSC）的改变对你有影响没？自从我成为空军特种作战司令部（AFSOC）基地的一名战士以来，它对我的影响就开始了。我已经在远程遥控飞行系统上耗费了很长一段时间。
Nicelysedated[S]
It did. We are now tagged as fifth gen aircraft only.
它对我有影响。我们现在只被标记为第五代飞行器（维护员）了。
xj13361987
At least your on an air frame you know about. I am tagged as RPAs only but I have not laid a hand on one yet. By the time I get back to the line as a Staff, hopefully a Tech, they will have to learn me on what a screw driver is again.
至少你在机体上，你多少知道一点。我只是被标记为远程遥控飞行系统。但是我现在还没碰过一把呢。当我归队的成为一名员工的时候，最好是技术人员，他们就又不得不让我去教他们什么是螺丝刀了。
I imagine all fighter jets to be relatively fragile things flying around in the sky. Could you explain to us exactly how survivable the A-10 is? Could it withstand, say, an RPG?
我觉得所有在天空飞行的战斗机相对来说都是比较脆弱的。你能说明下A10的强度如何吗？比如，A10能经得住RPG的一击吗？
Nicelysedated[S]
They aren't fragile. Pulling 9g's with missiles hanging on the wing is a lot of stress.
他们并不脆弱。最大过载9G，机翼上挂载导弹，这可是要承受很大压力的。
（译注：G就是地球上的重力加速度。战机最大过载9G，意思是这款战机最大能够承受9倍的重力加速度，超过9G，就可能造成飞机解体。）
ObservoMatic
There's a ton of stuff on the web about a10 durability... some crazy pics of planes that limped home that you cannot believe could even fly.
网络上有一大堆关于A10耐久性的信息……有些图片太疯狂，看着（A10）一瘸一拐地返回的样子，你没法相信它还能飞。
freemarket27
Do you work on drone aircraft?
你维护过无人机么？
Nicelysedated[S]
I have not.
没有。
xj13361987
Did the AFSC change over affect you at all? It got me since I am a fighter guy at an AFSOC base. Now I am stuck on RPAs for awhile.
空军系统司令部（AFSC）的改变对你有影响没？自从我成为空军特种作战司令部（AFSOC）基地的一名战士以来，它对我的影响就开始了。我已经在远程遥控飞行系统上耗费了很长一段时间。
Nicelysedated[S]
It did. We are now tagged as fifth gen aircraft only.
它对我有影响。我们现在只被标记为第五代飞行器（维护员）了。
xj13361987
At least your on an air frame you know about. I am tagged as RPAs only but I have not laid a hand on one yet. By the time I get back to the line as a Staff, hopefully a Tech, they will have to learn me on what a screw driver is again.
至少你在机体上，你多少知道一点。我只是被标记为远程遥控飞行系统。但是我现在还没碰过一把呢。当我归队的成为一名员工的时候，最好是技术人员，他们就又不得不让我去教他们什么是螺丝刀了。
霉菌地勤版你问我忽悠
lee_manson 发表于 2013-5-2 11:34 ![]()
哦呦，看看有没有什么实际内容
要干货的，可能会失望了。美帝在保密意识上的教育远比TG强多了啊。
不过还是可以读出一点东西来的：比方说F16上如果不是关键部位被弄出来的坑没有一英寸宽，都可以用胶带临时解决……还比如说地勤和飞行员之间互相不对付。英语好有时间的可以去读一读，可以侧面看看二等人的日常生活。
哦呦，看看有没有什么实际内容
要干货的，可能会失望了。美帝在保密意识上的教育远比TG强多了啊。
不过还是可以读出一点东西来的：比方说F16上如果不是关键部位被弄出来的坑没有一英寸宽，都可以用胶带临时解决……还比如说地勤和飞行员之间互相不对付。英语好有时间的可以去读一读，可以侧面看看二等人的日常生活。
看到美空就进来，没想到。。。
“猛禽咳嗽”？？？是不是指的发动机喘振
Gogojack
That's a wide range of aircraft to be sure...designs going back decades all the way to the latest models.
From a nuts & bolts standpoint, how much more advanced is an F-22 from, say, an A-10? I'm not talking avionics or weapons systems, but engines, controls, etc.
Thanks.
您经手过的飞机还真不少……从几十年前的设计到最新的型号都有啊
从最基本的方面来看，F-22比其他战机先进多少呢？比如说跟A-10比
我不是说航电呀武器系统呀，我想问问引擎、操纵系统之类的
谢谢
Nicelysedated[S]
Worlds... The A-10 has cable flight controls, older high bypass engines and a very non aero-dynamic design compared to an F-22. The engines on the F-22 are the best thing about it. They are also all fly by wire aircraft like F-16 and F-18's are. They also make extensive use of fiber optics for the first time in a fighter aircraft.
天差地别……跟F-22相比，A-10用的是线控飞行操纵、老旧的大涵道引擎，设计上也非常不符合空气动力学原理。F-22用的引擎是这机子最厉害的东西。F-22是电传操纵，跟F-16、F-18一样。F-22是第一代广泛利用光纤光学的歼击机。
Ayakalam
What does fly by wire mean?
电传操纵是什么意思？
RotoSequence
Fly by wire means that the pilot doesn't have direct control over the aircraft's flight control surfaces. Instead, they give the commands to a computer, which in turn command the flight surfaces to move. It was a necessary innovation to make unstable aircraft flyable without overwhelming the pilot.
电传操纵就是说飞行员不用直接控制飞机的飞行操纵面。飞行员给电脑发出指令，电脑指示飞行面进行调节。这项新发明非常必要，由此不稳定飞机得以顺利飞行，还不给飞行员制造过多压力。
KimJongUgh
I've known what fly by wire means. It scares me and reminds me of Battlestar Galactica. But what I am curious about is... what if suddenly the computer just goes kaput due to an EMP or some other force?
我知道什么是电传操纵了。这东西让我惴惴不安，我想起《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》了。我想知道……如果电脑因为电磁脉冲或是其它打击忽然故障了怎么办？
-------------译者：syzdy2011-审核者：chen_lt------------
samjohnson565
It means instead of manually controlling the control surfaces through mechanical linkages and hydraulic systems, your flight control inputs are processed through a computer system which then determine the best way to use the control surfaces. I'm pretty sure I'm mostly correct about this. Feel free to correct me anyone.
edit for clarification: The computer flies the aircraft, you tell the computer where you want to go with the controls.
这意味着用机械联动操纵系统和液压系统取代手动操纵系统，通过计算机系统，输入飞行控制参数，来确定最佳操纵系统。我非常确信，我是最正确的，欢迎随时指正。
编辑说明：计算机控制飞机，由计算机控制，而你告诉计算机你想要去的地方
Frogface40
It means it flies without autopilot. So basically manually flying it
这意味着它不自动驾驶，所以基本上手动驾驶它
ImAzura
The Wright Flyer flies without autopilot, and I'm 100% sure it's not fly by wire.
莱特飞机没有自动驾驶仪，我百分百肯定它不是用的电传（驾驶）
xinfinitimortum
The definition of a fly-by-wire is a control system for an aircraft or spacecraft that is run by electrical impulses such as from a computer.
电传飞控系统的定义是，由电子脉冲控制的飞机或宇宙飞船的操控系统，例如计算机操控系统
0AntiGone0
Fly by wire, meaning a computer basically keeps the aircraft flying. Most newer jets are designed to be unstable in flight. This does two things. 1 It makes the aircraft handle like a Ferrari in the air. 2 Because they are so unstable a computer must make thousands of adjustments per second to keep it flying. If the computer goes out, it all goes to hell. If you look around the interwebs for video there are lots of comp failures and the planes go nuts. Hope this helps.
电传飞控，这意味着一台计算机就可以本保持飞机飞行。新设计的飞机飞行是不稳定的。这就有可能导致两个问题：1它使飞机像法拉利般在空中飞行。2因为他们是如此的不稳定，计算机必须每秒数千次的作出调整以保证飞行。如果没有计算机，就大大不妙了。如果你关注网上视频，（就会看到）有很多飞机比赛失败和飞机疯狂事件。希望这会有所帮助。
-------------译者：量子纠缠-审核者：chen_lt------------
fsdsagihi
The wording is kind of misleading. If you fly by "wire," that means you control the computer by "wires" of electricity that the computer interprets, then it decides what you're trying to do, and it makes the plane do that.
The old style was by "cable," and that means when you pull a lever, that lever is physically connected to the rudder (or whatever part of the plane) and moves it directly by your movement. Some modern planes aren't stable without a computer helping out, so they require "fly by wire" control systems.
措辞有点误导性。如果你以"电传“来飞行，那就表示你控制电脑时是以”电传“的电流来控制用于解析的电脑
，然后它就判断你想做什么，它就命令飞机去动作。旧式的是以”钢丝“(来控制)，这就意味当你拉控制杆，那个控制杆实际上是跟方向舵（或飞机上的任何部分）相连接的，然后就跟着你的动作方向移动。有些现代的飞机没了电脑的帮助会变得不稳定，所以它们需要”电传飞控“的操纵系统。
That's a wide range of aircraft to be sure...designs going back decades all the way to the latest models.
From a nuts & bolts standpoint, how much more advanced is an F-22 from, say, an A-10? I'm not talking avionics or weapons systems, but engines, controls, etc.
Thanks.
您经手过的飞机还真不少……从几十年前的设计到最新的型号都有啊
从最基本的方面来看，F-22比其他战机先进多少呢？比如说跟A-10比
我不是说航电呀武器系统呀，我想问问引擎、操纵系统之类的
谢谢
Nicelysedated[S]
Worlds... The A-10 has cable flight controls, older high bypass engines and a very non aero-dynamic design compared to an F-22. The engines on the F-22 are the best thing about it. They are also all fly by wire aircraft like F-16 and F-18's are. They also make extensive use of fiber optics for the first time in a fighter aircraft.
天差地别……跟F-22相比，A-10用的是线控飞行操纵、老旧的大涵道引擎，设计上也非常不符合空气动力学原理。F-22用的引擎是这机子最厉害的东西。F-22是电传操纵，跟F-16、F-18一样。F-22是第一代广泛利用光纤光学的歼击机。
Ayakalam
What does fly by wire mean?
电传操纵是什么意思？
RotoSequence
Fly by wire means that the pilot doesn't have direct control over the aircraft's flight control surfaces. Instead, they give the commands to a computer, which in turn command the flight surfaces to move. It was a necessary innovation to make unstable aircraft flyable without overwhelming the pilot.
电传操纵就是说飞行员不用直接控制飞机的飞行操纵面。飞行员给电脑发出指令，电脑指示飞行面进行调节。这项新发明非常必要，由此不稳定飞机得以顺利飞行，还不给飞行员制造过多压力。
KimJongUgh
I've known what fly by wire means. It scares me and reminds me of Battlestar Galactica. But what I am curious about is... what if suddenly the computer just goes kaput due to an EMP or some other force?
我知道什么是电传操纵了。这东西让我惴惴不安，我想起《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》了。我想知道……如果电脑因为电磁脉冲或是其它打击忽然故障了怎么办？
-------------译者：syzdy2011-审核者：chen_lt------------
samjohnson565
It means instead of manually controlling the control surfaces through mechanical linkages and hydraulic systems, your flight control inputs are processed through a computer system which then determine the best way to use the control surfaces. I'm pretty sure I'm mostly correct about this. Feel free to correct me anyone.
edit for clarification: The computer flies the aircraft, you tell the computer where you want to go with the controls.
这意味着用机械联动操纵系统和液压系统取代手动操纵系统，通过计算机系统，输入飞行控制参数，来确定最佳操纵系统。我非常确信，我是最正确的，欢迎随时指正。
编辑说明：计算机控制飞机，由计算机控制，而你告诉计算机你想要去的地方
Frogface40
It means it flies without autopilot. So basically manually flying it
这意味着它不自动驾驶，所以基本上手动驾驶它
ImAzura
The Wright Flyer flies without autopilot, and I'm 100% sure it's not fly by wire.
莱特飞机没有自动驾驶仪，我百分百肯定它不是用的电传（驾驶）
xinfinitimortum
The definition of a fly-by-wire is a control system for an aircraft or spacecraft that is run by electrical impulses such as from a computer.
电传飞控系统的定义是，由电子脉冲控制的飞机或宇宙飞船的操控系统，例如计算机操控系统
0AntiGone0
Fly by wire, meaning a computer basically keeps the aircraft flying. Most newer jets are designed to be unstable in flight. This does two things. 1 It makes the aircraft handle like a Ferrari in the air. 2 Because they are so unstable a computer must make thousands of adjustments per second to keep it flying. If the computer goes out, it all goes to hell. If you look around the interwebs for video there are lots of comp failures and the planes go nuts. Hope this helps.
电传飞控，这意味着一台计算机就可以本保持飞机飞行。新设计的飞机飞行是不稳定的。这就有可能导致两个问题：1它使飞机像法拉利般在空中飞行。2因为他们是如此的不稳定，计算机必须每秒数千次的作出调整以保证飞行。如果没有计算机，就大大不妙了。如果你关注网上视频，（就会看到）有很多飞机比赛失败和飞机疯狂事件。希望这会有所帮助。
-------------译者：量子纠缠-审核者：chen_lt------------
fsdsagihi
The wording is kind of misleading. If you fly by "wire," that means you control the computer by "wires" of electricity that the computer interprets, then it decides what you're trying to do, and it makes the plane do that.
The old style was by "cable," and that means when you pull a lever, that lever is physically connected to the rudder (or whatever part of the plane) and moves it directly by your movement. Some modern planes aren't stable without a computer helping out, so they require "fly by wire" control systems.
措辞有点误导性。如果你以"电传“来飞行，那就表示你控制电脑时是以”电传“的电流来控制用于解析的电脑
，然后它就判断你想做什么，它就命令飞机去动作。旧式的是以”钢丝“(来控制)，这就意味当你拉控制杆，那个控制杆实际上是跟方向舵（或飞机上的任何部分）相连接的，然后就跟着你的动作方向移动。有些现代的飞机没了电脑的帮助会变得不稳定，所以它们需要”电传飞控“的操纵系统。
4chanThinksImWeird
It means the pilot does not directly control the plane, rather commands made by the pilot are sent into a computer which interprets all the data (from both the pilot and the plane) and then outputs signals to all the actuators so that the plane handles the way the pilot intended it to. This often requires the onboard computer to make hundreds of micro-adjustments every second to keep the plane airborne especially on jets like the F-16 which are aerodynamically unstable.
这表示驾驶员并没有直接控制飞机，而是驾驶员所下的命令被送到电脑去解析所有的数据（从驾驶员或是飞机）然后就把所有的信号输出到制动器，以至飞机可以按照驾驶员的指令去动作。这通常都需要机载电脑去做每秒几百次的微小调整，以保持飞机飞行，特别是喷射机例如F-16这种在空气动力学上不稳定的(飞机)。
-------------译者：E丶天下-审核者：chen_lt------------
DerBrizon
Also, to elaborate on why it was necessary: twitchy, hard to fly aircraft that want to change direction make fantastic fighter jets. Computers make this easy. Also, some modern aircraft are simply so big it makes sense for a computer to stabilize them and keep them out of hazardous maneuvers. For instance, the flying-wing design of the b-2 can stall in an irrecoverable way, but its onboard computer wont let it, barring engine failure.
此外，详细说明为什么它是必须的：想要改变飞行方向很难的颠簸的飞机使之成为出色的战斗机。计算机使这变得容易。而且，一些现在的飞机实在如此之大，用一个计算机稳定它们使它们远离危险动作是有意义的。例如，b-2的飞翼设计导致这种飞机突然间停止运转，但是机上自带的计算机不会让这种事情发生，不会让引擎发生故障。
sixniner
A lot of answers here talk about the computer doing the flying. This isn't necessarily true:
Fly-by-wire simply means instead of physical cables or hydraulic lines, what "tells" the control surfaces to move is an electrical impulse moving along a wire.
An advantage of fly-by-wire is that you CAN insert a flight control computer in the loop to do the things mentioned elsewhere, but you don't necessarily have to.
The simplest way to think about this is by picturing the throttle in your car. Normally, you mash the pedal, it pulls on a cable, which opens the throttle valve. If you had throttle-by-wire, you'd mash the pedal, a sensor would tell how much, and a servo on the throttle valve would actually do the moving.
With this system, you could still have 100% control over the throttle valve. But, you could also have a computer that interprets your input and decides whether or not to listen to you.
这里很多回答谈论了计算机在飞行中应用。这不一定是真的：
电传操控的意思是并不是说用电线或者液压管来控制飞机，而是通过电缆中的电脉冲来控制飞机的。
电传操纵的优点是你可以飞机上安装一个飞行控制计算机来对飞机下指令，但并不是必须的。
思考这个问题的最简单方法是想想车的油门。通常情况下，踩下踏板拉动绳索，这样就打开了油门阀。如果你用线控油门，那么你踩下踏板后，传感器上就会显示相应的数据，然后节流阀上的随动系统就会做出相应的动作。有了这个系统，你依然可以100%控制油门阀。但是，你也可以有台计算机，它能理解你的输入并决定是否听你的。
-------------译者：不会游泳的鱼-审核者：chen_lt------------
N0V0w3ls
Doesn't the F22 have some sort of thrust vectoring going on with its engines?
难道F22的发动机没有使用某种推力矢量技术吗？
]Nicelysedated[S]
It does. Works in tandem with the flight controls.
用了。配合飞行控制运作。
RotoSequence
Very late to respond to this, but I just want to say, for anyone still reading, that the F119 is a rather magnificent engine.
http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment/100917/zip1284700771/1284700772_1.jpg
http://lyle.smu.edu/propulsion/Pages/Images/F119_engine_1.jpg
老帖了，不过我还是想告诉那些还在看这篇帖子的人，F119是一个相当不错的引擎。
http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment/100917/zip1284700771/1284700772_1.jpg
http://lyle.smu.edu/propulsion/Pages/Images/F119_engine_1.jpg
viper2002
What was the F-117 like to work on due to it's technology? Much more difficult than a standard aircraft?
F-117的技术比较特别，它是如何运作的？应该要比一架标准的飞机困难吧？
Nicelysedated[S]
I worked this airframe the least. It was a very awkward plane. Engineers designed the shape and then stuffed a bunch of shit in it to make it fly. One of its first nicknames was "the wobblin goblin" because it was such a crappy shape for flight. It could not have flown without all the the flight control computers.
我对这款机体知之甚少。 F-117是一款非常奇怪的飞机。工程师们只是设计了外形，然后塞进一堆乱七八糟的东西让它能够飞起来。它有个绰号叫“颤地恶魔”，因为它的外形不适合飞行。要是没有飞行控制计算机，它甚至飞不了。
It means the pilot does not directly control the plane, rather commands made by the pilot are sent into a computer which interprets all the data (from both the pilot and the plane) and then outputs signals to all the actuators so that the plane handles the way the pilot intended it to. This often requires the onboard computer to make hundreds of micro-adjustments every second to keep the plane airborne especially on jets like the F-16 which are aerodynamically unstable.
这表示驾驶员并没有直接控制飞机，而是驾驶员所下的命令被送到电脑去解析所有的数据（从驾驶员或是飞机）然后就把所有的信号输出到制动器，以至飞机可以按照驾驶员的指令去动作。这通常都需要机载电脑去做每秒几百次的微小调整，以保持飞机飞行，特别是喷射机例如F-16这种在空气动力学上不稳定的(飞机)。
-------------译者：E丶天下-审核者：chen_lt------------
DerBrizon
Also, to elaborate on why it was necessary: twitchy, hard to fly aircraft that want to change direction make fantastic fighter jets. Computers make this easy. Also, some modern aircraft are simply so big it makes sense for a computer to stabilize them and keep them out of hazardous maneuvers. For instance, the flying-wing design of the b-2 can stall in an irrecoverable way, but its onboard computer wont let it, barring engine failure.
此外，详细说明为什么它是必须的：想要改变飞行方向很难的颠簸的飞机使之成为出色的战斗机。计算机使这变得容易。而且，一些现在的飞机实在如此之大，用一个计算机稳定它们使它们远离危险动作是有意义的。例如，b-2的飞翼设计导致这种飞机突然间停止运转，但是机上自带的计算机不会让这种事情发生，不会让引擎发生故障。
sixniner
A lot of answers here talk about the computer doing the flying. This isn't necessarily true:
Fly-by-wire simply means instead of physical cables or hydraulic lines, what "tells" the control surfaces to move is an electrical impulse moving along a wire.
An advantage of fly-by-wire is that you CAN insert a flight control computer in the loop to do the things mentioned elsewhere, but you don't necessarily have to.
The simplest way to think about this is by picturing the throttle in your car. Normally, you mash the pedal, it pulls on a cable, which opens the throttle valve. If you had throttle-by-wire, you'd mash the pedal, a sensor would tell how much, and a servo on the throttle valve would actually do the moving.
With this system, you could still have 100% control over the throttle valve. But, you could also have a computer that interprets your input and decides whether or not to listen to you.
这里很多回答谈论了计算机在飞行中应用。这不一定是真的：
电传操控的意思是并不是说用电线或者液压管来控制飞机，而是通过电缆中的电脉冲来控制飞机的。
电传操纵的优点是你可以飞机上安装一个飞行控制计算机来对飞机下指令，但并不是必须的。
思考这个问题的最简单方法是想想车的油门。通常情况下，踩下踏板拉动绳索，这样就打开了油门阀。如果你用线控油门，那么你踩下踏板后，传感器上就会显示相应的数据，然后节流阀上的随动系统就会做出相应的动作。有了这个系统，你依然可以100%控制油门阀。但是，你也可以有台计算机，它能理解你的输入并决定是否听你的。
-------------译者：不会游泳的鱼-审核者：chen_lt------------
N0V0w3ls
Doesn't the F22 have some sort of thrust vectoring going on with its engines?
难道F22的发动机没有使用某种推力矢量技术吗？
]Nicelysedated[S]
It does. Works in tandem with the flight controls.
用了。配合飞行控制运作。
RotoSequence
Very late to respond to this, but I just want to say, for anyone still reading, that the F119 is a rather magnificent engine.
http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment/100917/zip1284700771/1284700772_1.jpg
http://lyle.smu.edu/propulsion/Pages/Images/F119_engine_1.jpg
老帖了，不过我还是想告诉那些还在看这篇帖子的人，F119是一个相当不错的引擎。
http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment/100917/zip1284700771/1284700772_1.jpg
http://lyle.smu.edu/propulsion/Pages/Images/F119_engine_1.jpg
viper2002
What was the F-117 like to work on due to it's technology? Much more difficult than a standard aircraft?
F-117的技术比较特别，它是如何运作的？应该要比一架标准的飞机困难吧？
Nicelysedated[S]
I worked this airframe the least. It was a very awkward plane. Engineers designed the shape and then stuffed a bunch of shit in it to make it fly. One of its first nicknames was "the wobblin goblin" because it was such a crappy shape for flight. It could not have flown without all the the flight control computers.
我对这款机体知之甚少。 F-117是一款非常奇怪的飞机。工程师们只是设计了外形，然后塞进一堆乱七八糟的东西让它能够飞起来。它有个绰号叫“颤地恶魔”，因为它的外形不适合飞行。要是没有飞行控制计算机，它甚至飞不了。
ogojack
"It could not have flown without all the the flight control computers. "
That, to me, is the most amazing fact about the aircraft.
“要是没有飞行控制计算机，它甚至飞不了。”
对我来说，这一点是最不可思议的。
Clovis69 3
Same goes for the B-1B, F-16, F/A-18, MiG-29, Su-27/30/33, Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, etc
B-1B， F-16，F/A-18，米格-29，Su-27/30/33，欧洲“台风”战机，达索“阵风”战机等也是如此。
CocoSavege
I'm not an aerospace eng but I don't think it's quite the same. Maybe it is.
Some of the planes you listed are designed to be 'unstable'; on purpose even, to enable unusual and very nimble flight characteristics. Now these planes are still designed to fly in a fashion. They still look like planes and achieve flight characteristics in relatively normal fashion.
我不是一名航空航天工程师，但我觉得他们不太一样。也许确实一样。你列出的一些飞机甚至是特意设计的“不稳定”以实现非比寻常和灵活多变的飞行特性。现在这些飞机马马虎虎也能飞。他们看起来和普通飞机并无二样，并能实现某些相对常规的飞行特性。
-------------译者：swishshot-审核者：chen_lt------------
Just be able to do some really wacky turns, fast!
The F117? That's... not... traditional. It's barely an 'aircraft' in the broadest terms - It's a weird ass diamond wingaling thing that happens to have jet power. It's a fundamentally different design paradigm.
I can't think of another airframe that remotely resembles the F117. Maybe the B2 is the closest production airframe which obviously is a stretch. Well, maybe some new slealth drone I've seen piccies of. Or that flying lawnmower.
EDIT: A stealth drone
F117就只能做一些雷人的快速的转弯？那不是传统意义上的飞机，当然在广义角度上，它勉强是一架飞机。奇怪的菱形尾翼刚好有一个喷射动力，这是一个从完全与众不同的设计范式。我想不出另一种类似F117的机体。可能B2最接近F117的机身，那明显是F117的横向拉伸版。嗯，也许像我见过一些新型的隐形无人机的图片或者那种可以飞的剪草机。
Clovis69
The aircraft I mentioned are all unstable and require a computer to fly them or they can't fly.
permalink
我提到的飞机飞行都是不稳定的，需要计算机辅助否则它们无法飞行。
CocoSavege
I still think it's different.
With a bunch of the ones you mentioned, the discussion might go something like:
"Hey. If we use fly-by-wire... and computer aided flight... and we do some pretty interesting tweaks to the surfaces... we sacrifice stability in traditional flight envelope. But we get the pretty kick ass bonus of extra awesome flight envelope. This plane will do shit which will bend your brain!"
And with the F117
"Holy shit. This thing flies like a brick with a pizza box taped to it. It has no flight envelope unless we use computers. I'm surprised this thing doesn't crash when taxiing."
我仍然认为它是不同的。
和你们前面提到的，讨论也许就会这样：“嘿，如果我们使用电传控制和计算机辅助飞行，然后我们在飞机表面做了一些有趣的调整，相对于传统样式的设计而言我们在牺牲了飞机的稳定性，但是我们额外得到奇葩的的飞行包线，飞机的性能会让你产生意想不到的效果。”
至于F117，“超神了，这玩意儿像一块绑着披萨盒的方砖，它没有飞行包线，除非使用计算机辅助，如果它在滑行时没有坠毁，我会很惊讶。”
注：飞行包线是以飞行速度、高度和过载等作为界限的封闭几何图形，用以表示飞机的飞行范围和飞行限制条件.
-------------译者：Trinket-审核者：chen_lt------------
AlotOfReading
To be completely fair, the F-117 has that shape due to the lack of appropriate computers when it was being designed. We simply couldn't do the math to reduce radar signature on heavily curved surfaces at the time, hence the characteristic facets. When the computers were eventually built that could handle the task, the thing was already flying.
事实求是地说吧，F-117的外形之所以这样是因为当初进行设计的时候没有合用的计算机。当时我们没能演算出如何减少高度弯曲平面的雷达回波特征信号，就更不用提特殊平面了。后来性能合适的计算机造出来了，飞机也早就已经在飞了。
Chichikov
to reduce radar signature on heavily curved surfaces
Could you elaborate on this? What kind of math was needed? How can curved surfaces reduce radar signature to begin with (I thought there will always be a point on a curved surface that reflects back at the receiver)?
减少高度弯曲平面的雷达回波特征信号
能多说说这方面吗？需要进行什么样的演算？弯曲平面到底怎么减少雷达回波特征信号呢？（我还以为曲面上总有一个点会反射信号给接收器呢）
SchizophrenicMC
As someone who studied aerospace engineering for a little while, it isn't different at all. The shape of, say, the F-16, which looks like a normal plane, is incapable of stable flight in even the most ideal conditions. If its flight computer (and the 4 backups) failed, its flight characteristics would rapidly and catastrophically disintegrate. The only reason the plane is able to remain airborne is due to numerous minute changes to control surface outputs per second. Without the active controls, it wouldn't be flying.
"It could not have flown without all the the flight control computers. "
That, to me, is the most amazing fact about the aircraft.
“要是没有飞行控制计算机，它甚至飞不了。”
对我来说，这一点是最不可思议的。
Clovis69 3
Same goes for the B-1B, F-16, F/A-18, MiG-29, Su-27/30/33, Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, etc
B-1B， F-16，F/A-18，米格-29，Su-27/30/33，欧洲“台风”战机，达索“阵风”战机等也是如此。
CocoSavege
I'm not an aerospace eng but I don't think it's quite the same. Maybe it is.
Some of the planes you listed are designed to be 'unstable'; on purpose even, to enable unusual and very nimble flight characteristics. Now these planes are still designed to fly in a fashion. They still look like planes and achieve flight characteristics in relatively normal fashion.
我不是一名航空航天工程师，但我觉得他们不太一样。也许确实一样。你列出的一些飞机甚至是特意设计的“不稳定”以实现非比寻常和灵活多变的飞行特性。现在这些飞机马马虎虎也能飞。他们看起来和普通飞机并无二样，并能实现某些相对常规的飞行特性。
-------------译者：swishshot-审核者：chen_lt------------
Just be able to do some really wacky turns, fast!
The F117? That's... not... traditional. It's barely an 'aircraft' in the broadest terms - It's a weird ass diamond wingaling thing that happens to have jet power. It's a fundamentally different design paradigm.
I can't think of another airframe that remotely resembles the F117. Maybe the B2 is the closest production airframe which obviously is a stretch. Well, maybe some new slealth drone I've seen piccies of. Or that flying lawnmower.
EDIT: A stealth drone
F117就只能做一些雷人的快速的转弯？那不是传统意义上的飞机，当然在广义角度上，它勉强是一架飞机。奇怪的菱形尾翼刚好有一个喷射动力，这是一个从完全与众不同的设计范式。我想不出另一种类似F117的机体。可能B2最接近F117的机身，那明显是F117的横向拉伸版。嗯，也许像我见过一些新型的隐形无人机的图片或者那种可以飞的剪草机。
Clovis69
The aircraft I mentioned are all unstable and require a computer to fly them or they can't fly.
permalink
我提到的飞机飞行都是不稳定的，需要计算机辅助否则它们无法飞行。
CocoSavege
I still think it's different.
With a bunch of the ones you mentioned, the discussion might go something like:
"Hey. If we use fly-by-wire... and computer aided flight... and we do some pretty interesting tweaks to the surfaces... we sacrifice stability in traditional flight envelope. But we get the pretty kick ass bonus of extra awesome flight envelope. This plane will do shit which will bend your brain!"
And with the F117
"Holy shit. This thing flies like a brick with a pizza box taped to it. It has no flight envelope unless we use computers. I'm surprised this thing doesn't crash when taxiing."
我仍然认为它是不同的。
和你们前面提到的，讨论也许就会这样：“嘿，如果我们使用电传控制和计算机辅助飞行，然后我们在飞机表面做了一些有趣的调整，相对于传统样式的设计而言我们在牺牲了飞机的稳定性，但是我们额外得到奇葩的的飞行包线，飞机的性能会让你产生意想不到的效果。”
至于F117，“超神了，这玩意儿像一块绑着披萨盒的方砖，它没有飞行包线，除非使用计算机辅助，如果它在滑行时没有坠毁，我会很惊讶。”
注：飞行包线是以飞行速度、高度和过载等作为界限的封闭几何图形，用以表示飞机的飞行范围和飞行限制条件.
-------------译者：Trinket-审核者：chen_lt------------
AlotOfReading
To be completely fair, the F-117 has that shape due to the lack of appropriate computers when it was being designed. We simply couldn't do the math to reduce radar signature on heavily curved surfaces at the time, hence the characteristic facets. When the computers were eventually built that could handle the task, the thing was already flying.
事实求是地说吧，F-117的外形之所以这样是因为当初进行设计的时候没有合用的计算机。当时我们没能演算出如何减少高度弯曲平面的雷达回波特征信号，就更不用提特殊平面了。后来性能合适的计算机造出来了，飞机也早就已经在飞了。
Chichikov
to reduce radar signature on heavily curved surfaces
Could you elaborate on this? What kind of math was needed? How can curved surfaces reduce radar signature to begin with (I thought there will always be a point on a curved surface that reflects back at the receiver)?
减少高度弯曲平面的雷达回波特征信号
能多说说这方面吗？需要进行什么样的演算？弯曲平面到底怎么减少雷达回波特征信号呢？（我还以为曲面上总有一个点会反射信号给接收器呢）
SchizophrenicMC
As someone who studied aerospace engineering for a little while, it isn't different at all. The shape of, say, the F-16, which looks like a normal plane, is incapable of stable flight in even the most ideal conditions. If its flight computer (and the 4 backups) failed, its flight characteristics would rapidly and catastrophically disintegrate. The only reason the plane is able to remain airborne is due to numerous minute changes to control surface outputs per second. Without the active controls, it wouldn't be flying.
The F-117 looks more unconventional to the untrained eye, but both planes (and basically every fighter since the F-16 really) are similarly incapable of flight.
我学航天工程也有一段时间了，我觉得根本没区别。比如说F-16的外形吧，看起来跟普通飞机一样，但是它不能稳定飞行，就算外部环境再好也不能。一旦它的飞行计算机(以及四台备用机)故障，它的各种飞行数值很快就会混乱，情况会很糟。它之所以能飞，就是因为操纵界面不断输出信号，这些信号每秒都会产生大量细微变化。如果操纵系统不工作了，它根本飞不成。
在外行看来F-117的外形更奇特，但是这两种战机都一样不能飞(其实F-16之后的各代战机基本上都是如此)。
-------------译者：swishshot-审核者：chen_lt------------
Nicelysedated[S]
Every fly by wire aircraft has a FLCC (flight control computer). Those wires have to run somewhere. Most of them are a typical aircraft shape and are inherently stable. A F-16 can land full power out if its already lined up with a suitable place to land (its happened), a F-117 becomes a brick.
FWIW the 16 doesnt have four computers. It has one with 4 redundant branches.
每种有电传（能遥控的自动驾驶仪）的飞机都有FLCC（飞行自动控制计算系统）。这个系统会运行在某处（不太懂）。大部分这样的飞机都有一个特别的外形，本质上这样的飞机是稳定的。一架F-16战机如果在提前一个合适的位置对齐准备降落，它就能全速降落，而F-117会变成一个俯冲的炮弹。
总之，F-16没有4台飞行控制电脑，它只有一台电脑和其他4个冗余的分支。
（下半段可以这样理解，为什么降落发动机全速不减速呢？我们知道舰载机降落不能靠发动机减速，而是要加速，至少要保持飞行速度，即便没有被阻拦索勾住，飞机也能重新拉起来，减速的话万一没有勾上，唯一的结果就是掉进海里。）
axcairns
I recall a friend back in the 80's describing the Mirage as having the glide ratio of a housebrick.
permalink
我回想起一位朋友在上世纪80年代描述的幻影战斗机的滑翔比。
滑翔比（glide ratio）是指一台无动力飞机前进距离和下降距离的比例，当以固定速度航行时，滑翔比和升阻比会有相同的数值。
Mr_Green26
Not true. Most aircraft are completely able to fly without computers. There are only a few truly fly by wire aircraft that can not fly without the computer system, the B-2 being an example. I have first hand knowledge of the B-1 and can tell you that although it does use a lot of computer assisted controls it is not required and the jet has been flown and landed after complete failure in the electrical systems.
不对。大多数飞机完全可以飞行不靠计算机。只有少数真正线传飞控的飞机在没有计算机的情况下无法飞行。B-2可以作为一个例子。我也有B-1第一手的资料，可以告诉你们B-1使用大量不是必需的计算机辅助控制，但它在电子系统完全失效的情况下，B-1仍然可以起飞降落。
DerBrizon
Was looking for this response. Almost anything going fast enough is gonna fly. The phantom and others proved as much long before fly by wire existed. Also, the b2 could fly without a computer much the same way that other flying wings did before it. The computer prevents the pilots from putting in its admittedly huge irrecoverability envelope..
正在找这个答案。只要足够快就能起飞，在电传操纵存在的很久以前，鬼怪式战机和其他飞机已经证明这点很多次了。B2战机也可以飞行而不靠太多计算机系统，同样的在B-2之前的其他飞翼式飞机也能做到不依靠计算机系统，但是计算机可以阻止飞行员输入可被执行的大量的但不可复原的飞行包线。
-------------译者：swishshot-审核者：chen_lt------------
Mr_Green26
Most modern aircraft are designed to be able to glide, without propulsion. So even with loss of engines they are not going to crash..... well not right away depending on the pilot.
现代的大多数飞机都被设计成不用推力也可以滑翔的，所以即使失去了引擎，飞机也不会坠毁....当然这要看飞行员的技巧。
DerBrizon
Of course. The point I was making is that a flying-wing design is prone to stalls that are abnormal compared to other standard airframe configurations.
Try making a flying-wing paper airplane and throw it. Watch how it does terrible little back flips until it hits the ground. The B2 wants to do this when it's airspeed is too low. Most aircraft fall out of the sky, and then the airspeed of falling allows the aircraft to eventually be pointed into the fall and then recovered. The B2, on the other hand, wants to just keep flipping, and is generally much more difficult to recover. Even in engine failure, the B2's computer is supposed to prevent the pilot from exceeding an angle of attack that will cause a catastrophic stall. Pitch-control is an iffy thing on aircraft with no rear stabilizers.
当然，我认为有一点是相比较于其他标准的机身结构，那种不规则的机翼的设计容易失控。折一架这样机翼的纸飞机玩儿，你会发现它只能做几个后空翻然后坠地。当B2的飞行速度过低时它会坠地。大多数飞机从空中坠落，然后下降的速度可让飞机最终恢复。另一方面，B2要做空翻，一般恢复成正常要困难许多。甚至如果出现引擎故障，B2的电脑会阻止飞行员做过角度的攻击姿态，否则会造成失控的灾难。俯仰控制如果没有后稳定翼也是有问题的。
我学航天工程也有一段时间了，我觉得根本没区别。比如说F-16的外形吧，看起来跟普通飞机一样，但是它不能稳定飞行，就算外部环境再好也不能。一旦它的飞行计算机(以及四台备用机)故障，它的各种飞行数值很快就会混乱，情况会很糟。它之所以能飞，就是因为操纵界面不断输出信号，这些信号每秒都会产生大量细微变化。如果操纵系统不工作了，它根本飞不成。
在外行看来F-117的外形更奇特，但是这两种战机都一样不能飞(其实F-16之后的各代战机基本上都是如此)。
-------------译者：swishshot-审核者：chen_lt------------
Nicelysedated[S]
Every fly by wire aircraft has a FLCC (flight control computer). Those wires have to run somewhere. Most of them are a typical aircraft shape and are inherently stable. A F-16 can land full power out if its already lined up with a suitable place to land (its happened), a F-117 becomes a brick.
FWIW the 16 doesnt have four computers. It has one with 4 redundant branches.
每种有电传（能遥控的自动驾驶仪）的飞机都有FLCC（飞行自动控制计算系统）。这个系统会运行在某处（不太懂）。大部分这样的飞机都有一个特别的外形，本质上这样的飞机是稳定的。一架F-16战机如果在提前一个合适的位置对齐准备降落，它就能全速降落，而F-117会变成一个俯冲的炮弹。
总之，F-16没有4台飞行控制电脑，它只有一台电脑和其他4个冗余的分支。
（下半段可以这样理解，为什么降落发动机全速不减速呢？我们知道舰载机降落不能靠发动机减速，而是要加速，至少要保持飞行速度，即便没有被阻拦索勾住，飞机也能重新拉起来，减速的话万一没有勾上，唯一的结果就是掉进海里。）
axcairns
I recall a friend back in the 80's describing the Mirage as having the glide ratio of a housebrick.
permalink
我回想起一位朋友在上世纪80年代描述的幻影战斗机的滑翔比。
滑翔比（glide ratio）是指一台无动力飞机前进距离和下降距离的比例，当以固定速度航行时，滑翔比和升阻比会有相同的数值。
Mr_Green26
Not true. Most aircraft are completely able to fly without computers. There are only a few truly fly by wire aircraft that can not fly without the computer system, the B-2 being an example. I have first hand knowledge of the B-1 and can tell you that although it does use a lot of computer assisted controls it is not required and the jet has been flown and landed after complete failure in the electrical systems.
不对。大多数飞机完全可以飞行不靠计算机。只有少数真正线传飞控的飞机在没有计算机的情况下无法飞行。B-2可以作为一个例子。我也有B-1第一手的资料，可以告诉你们B-1使用大量不是必需的计算机辅助控制，但它在电子系统完全失效的情况下，B-1仍然可以起飞降落。
DerBrizon
Was looking for this response. Almost anything going fast enough is gonna fly. The phantom and others proved as much long before fly by wire existed. Also, the b2 could fly without a computer much the same way that other flying wings did before it. The computer prevents the pilots from putting in its admittedly huge irrecoverability envelope..
正在找这个答案。只要足够快就能起飞，在电传操纵存在的很久以前，鬼怪式战机和其他飞机已经证明这点很多次了。B2战机也可以飞行而不靠太多计算机系统，同样的在B-2之前的其他飞翼式飞机也能做到不依靠计算机系统，但是计算机可以阻止飞行员输入可被执行的大量的但不可复原的飞行包线。
-------------译者：swishshot-审核者：chen_lt------------
Mr_Green26
Most modern aircraft are designed to be able to glide, without propulsion. So even with loss of engines they are not going to crash..... well not right away depending on the pilot.
现代的大多数飞机都被设计成不用推力也可以滑翔的，所以即使失去了引擎，飞机也不会坠毁....当然这要看飞行员的技巧。
DerBrizon
Of course. The point I was making is that a flying-wing design is prone to stalls that are abnormal compared to other standard airframe configurations.
Try making a flying-wing paper airplane and throw it. Watch how it does terrible little back flips until it hits the ground. The B2 wants to do this when it's airspeed is too low. Most aircraft fall out of the sky, and then the airspeed of falling allows the aircraft to eventually be pointed into the fall and then recovered. The B2, on the other hand, wants to just keep flipping, and is generally much more difficult to recover. Even in engine failure, the B2's computer is supposed to prevent the pilot from exceeding an angle of attack that will cause a catastrophic stall. Pitch-control is an iffy thing on aircraft with no rear stabilizers.
当然，我认为有一点是相比较于其他标准的机身结构，那种不规则的机翼的设计容易失控。折一架这样机翼的纸飞机玩儿，你会发现它只能做几个后空翻然后坠地。当B2的飞行速度过低时它会坠地。大多数飞机从空中坠落，然后下降的速度可让飞机最终恢复。另一方面，B2要做空翻，一般恢复成正常要困难许多。甚至如果出现引擎故障，B2的电脑会阻止飞行员做过角度的攻击姿态，否则会造成失控的灾难。俯仰控制如果没有后稳定翼也是有问题的。
Mr_Green26
I am a monkey with a wrench...... I just know it's fly by wire :D
我是个拿着扳手的猴子……我只知道他们依靠电传来飞行。^_^
DerBrizon
More than me! I just read a lot.
比我强多了！ 我只是看到了很多字！
Rhennigan
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that the space shuttle was the first aircraft that was completely dependent on a flight computer. Not necessarily due to the shape of the airframe, but because of how flight characteristics change so drastically all the way from reentry to wheels down on the runway.
我大概错了，但是我好像记起来了，航天飞机是首个完全依靠飞行计算机来飞行的飞行器。（完全依靠飞行计算机）这并不完全是由于机体的形状，而是由于从再进入（大气层）到着陆之间，飞行特性如何大幅变化。
Mr_Green26
This I do not know, I only worked on B1s
我不知道这个，我只是对B1有研究。
Rhennigan
For some reason, I was thinking the B-2 was something completely different (older than the space shuttle).
It makes sense that this beast could only be handled by a complex flight computer.
由于某些原因，我觉得B-2是完全不同的飞机（它比航天飞机出现得要早）。
如果这头野兽只能被复杂的飞行计算机控制的话，一切就说得通了。
Clack082 0
Perhaps you were thinking of the B-52?
你也许想说B-52？
red5rogue1
Untrue, some of those aircraft could be flown without computer inputs. Similarly, so could a flying wing design as seen here: YB-49 I don't know that the F-117 is any different, but all of these aircraft gain safety and even stretch limitations when those systems work properly.
假的，这其中有些飞机可以在没有电脑输入的情况下飞行。同样的，一架飞翼式飞机也可以这样，比如：YB-49。我不知道F-117有什么不同，但是所有的这些飞机在这些系统正常运转的情况下，都可以保证安全性，甚至可以突破某些限制。
ozspook
Me-163 perhaps? damn that was a cool plane.
也许是Me-163 ？我艹那飞机太酷了。
-------------译者：suizheng6-审核者：chen_lt------------
KillAllTheThings
Only the last few are unstable enough to be unable to fly with computer assistance. And you missed the B-2 (a WW2 design that was decades before its time but needed a computer to fly stably).
The F-117 was designed to be stealthy first. They deliberately used off-the-shelf components (from other aircraft designs) to get the planes usable faster. I understand a good portion of the F-117's guts came from A-7s.
So they wouldn't be hard to maintain but probably not much fun to fly.
只有最后几个是在有电脑的帮助下还是不能平稳飞行的 。你漏了b2（一种二战时候设计几十年后成战力的飞机却需要计算机辅助飞行）。
F117首先是一种隐性战斗机 。他们专门用（从其他飞机那弄来的）下架的组件使飞机更快地重获新生。据我了解很多f117的组件来自a-7s。
所以对它们进行保养应该不难，但是开起来应该不是很有乐趣 。
Catsfive
This is true, though to a lesser extent, of the F-16.
对f16来说没错，尽管程度较轻。
mjiscool2345
I am aspiring to be a commercial airline pilot myself, but don't know if I'm going to take the "traditional" route of training via college, or join the military, but I'd just like to thank you for your service sir!
我渴望成为一个商业航空公司的飞行员，但不知道是否应该接受“传统”的大学培训，或参军，无论如何我只是想感谢你的解答先生！
skyraider17
The 'traditional' route is very expensive, but the military route is very competitive and subject to things like sequestration, so choose carefully.
传统养成路线很昂贵，但是参军竞争激烈而且会遭遇受封杀之类的事情，所以谨慎选择吧。
catsfive
What do you mean by 'sequestration'?
封杀是什么意思？
skyraider17
Government's across-the-board spending cuts, including military. There's already been a civilian hiring freeze, and I've heard rumors that they're going to be cutting back on pilot training too.
政府全面削减开支，包括军事。现在是基本不招聘飞行员，而且我已经听到他们打算减少飞行员培训的传言。
-------------译者：suizheng6-审核者：chen_lt------------
Exocoetidae
What was the most beat up aircraft that you've seen fly again / make it home?
你见过的能再次飞/飞回来的最牛的飞机是什么？
Nicelysedated[S]
Hands down the A-10. It was built to be shot at. They hand one come back in the first gulf war with half the tail and a good chunk of wing missing.
投票给a10。 它就是用来被射击的 。第一次海湾战争期间，他们开回来一架只有一半尾翼和一大块机翼丢失的a10.
Tequilasipper
This one? http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/story0016.htm
是这架吗？
fsdsagihi
What about that F15 that flew & landed with a missing wing? FFWD to 4:00 if you don't want to watch a 6min video, but it's an interesting story if you're into this kind of stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveSc8Lp0ZE
这架用一边机翼飞行的f15算不算得上呢？如果你不想看这视频就算了， 如果你喜欢这类型的东西，你会发现很好玩 。
donkostrich
Didn't an Isreali F-15 fly back from a mission once missing an entire wing?
以色列的一架f15战机之前不是在失去一整个机翼的情况下还飞回来了吗？
I am a monkey with a wrench...... I just know it's fly by wire :D
我是个拿着扳手的猴子……我只知道他们依靠电传来飞行。^_^
DerBrizon
More than me! I just read a lot.
比我强多了！ 我只是看到了很多字！
Rhennigan
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that the space shuttle was the first aircraft that was completely dependent on a flight computer. Not necessarily due to the shape of the airframe, but because of how flight characteristics change so drastically all the way from reentry to wheels down on the runway.
我大概错了，但是我好像记起来了，航天飞机是首个完全依靠飞行计算机来飞行的飞行器。（完全依靠飞行计算机）这并不完全是由于机体的形状，而是由于从再进入（大气层）到着陆之间，飞行特性如何大幅变化。
Mr_Green26
This I do not know, I only worked on B1s
我不知道这个，我只是对B1有研究。
Rhennigan
For some reason, I was thinking the B-2 was something completely different (older than the space shuttle).
It makes sense that this beast could only be handled by a complex flight computer.
由于某些原因，我觉得B-2是完全不同的飞机（它比航天飞机出现得要早）。
如果这头野兽只能被复杂的飞行计算机控制的话，一切就说得通了。
Clack082 0
Perhaps you were thinking of the B-52?
你也许想说B-52？
red5rogue1
Untrue, some of those aircraft could be flown without computer inputs. Similarly, so could a flying wing design as seen here: YB-49 I don't know that the F-117 is any different, but all of these aircraft gain safety and even stretch limitations when those systems work properly.
假的，这其中有些飞机可以在没有电脑输入的情况下飞行。同样的，一架飞翼式飞机也可以这样，比如：YB-49。我不知道F-117有什么不同，但是所有的这些飞机在这些系统正常运转的情况下，都可以保证安全性，甚至可以突破某些限制。
ozspook
Me-163 perhaps? damn that was a cool plane.
也许是Me-163 ？我艹那飞机太酷了。
-------------译者：suizheng6-审核者：chen_lt------------
KillAllTheThings
Only the last few are unstable enough to be unable to fly with computer assistance. And you missed the B-2 (a WW2 design that was decades before its time but needed a computer to fly stably).
The F-117 was designed to be stealthy first. They deliberately used off-the-shelf components (from other aircraft designs) to get the planes usable faster. I understand a good portion of the F-117's guts came from A-7s.
So they wouldn't be hard to maintain but probably not much fun to fly.
只有最后几个是在有电脑的帮助下还是不能平稳飞行的 。你漏了b2（一种二战时候设计几十年后成战力的飞机却需要计算机辅助飞行）。
F117首先是一种隐性战斗机 。他们专门用（从其他飞机那弄来的）下架的组件使飞机更快地重获新生。据我了解很多f117的组件来自a-7s。
所以对它们进行保养应该不难，但是开起来应该不是很有乐趣 。
Catsfive
This is true, though to a lesser extent, of the F-16.
对f16来说没错，尽管程度较轻。
mjiscool2345
I am aspiring to be a commercial airline pilot myself, but don't know if I'm going to take the "traditional" route of training via college, or join the military, but I'd just like to thank you for your service sir!
我渴望成为一个商业航空公司的飞行员，但不知道是否应该接受“传统”的大学培训，或参军，无论如何我只是想感谢你的解答先生！
skyraider17
The 'traditional' route is very expensive, but the military route is very competitive and subject to things like sequestration, so choose carefully.
传统养成路线很昂贵，但是参军竞争激烈而且会遭遇受封杀之类的事情，所以谨慎选择吧。
catsfive
What do you mean by 'sequestration'?
封杀是什么意思？
skyraider17
Government's across-the-board spending cuts, including military. There's already been a civilian hiring freeze, and I've heard rumors that they're going to be cutting back on pilot training too.
政府全面削减开支，包括军事。现在是基本不招聘飞行员，而且我已经听到他们打算减少飞行员培训的传言。
-------------译者：suizheng6-审核者：chen_lt------------
Exocoetidae
What was the most beat up aircraft that you've seen fly again / make it home?
你见过的能再次飞/飞回来的最牛的飞机是什么？
Nicelysedated[S]
Hands down the A-10. It was built to be shot at. They hand one come back in the first gulf war with half the tail and a good chunk of wing missing.
投票给a10。 它就是用来被射击的 。第一次海湾战争期间，他们开回来一架只有一半尾翼和一大块机翼丢失的a10.
Tequilasipper
This one? http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/story0016.htm
是这架吗？
fsdsagihi
What about that F15 that flew & landed with a missing wing? FFWD to 4:00 if you don't want to watch a 6min video, but it's an interesting story if you're into this kind of stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveSc8Lp0ZE
这架用一边机翼飞行的f15算不算得上呢？如果你不想看这视频就算了， 如果你喜欢这类型的东西，你会发现很好玩 。
donkostrich
Didn't an Isreali F-15 fly back from a mission once missing an entire wing?
以色列的一架f15战机之前不是在失去一整个机翼的情况下还飞回来了吗？
Shorvok 9
Yes.
Granted, the F15's body probably has more surface area than the wings, which is why it was possible. That and flight control computers are fucking boss at keeping things in the air.
是的，当然，可能因为f15机身的表面积可能比机翼的表面积大让它可以飞回来。再加上逆天的飞控计算机能让飞机在空中保持正常飞行。
KillAllTheThings 3 分/分4 分/分5 分/分 2 天 ago
And big fucking engines that can keep accelerating even when the nose is pointed straight up.
还有超逆天的发动机甚至能在机鼻竖起来的情况下加速。
engineer2012
its so powerful, it becomes more or less a rocket when at speed, so kinda doesnt need the wings....
推力是如此的强大，在达到最大速度时就像火箭一般 ，所以就不需要翅膀了……
H_E_Pennypacker
What happens to those planes that get so badly shot up? Completely scrapped? Good parts salvaged and used as replacements on other planes? Fixed up?
这些飞机被打成这样还能有什么用？ ？完全报废了？留下好的部分用来修其他飞机？确定？
-------------译者：suizheng6-审核者：chen_lt------------
Nicelysedated[S]
They do a cost analysis to determine the feasibility of repairing it. Most of the time it's cheaper to fix then it's is to buy a new one. And most of these planes aren't manufactured anymore, so you really aren't left with many options.
他们会做一个成本分析以确定修好它是否可行。多数情况是修比买新的更便宜。而且这些飞机大多数不再继续研发，所以你真的没有太多选项可选。
H_E_Pennypacker
Say the cost analysis determines that the plane is not feasible to repair. Do they re-use the parts that are not damaged?
要是说分析报告得出这些飞机不值得修复，那么他们会不会再利用飞机上没有损坏的零部件呢？
Nicelysedated[S]
Yes. That is an option. That might just keep it to study crashes too. It might get moth balled and placed into storage. Depends on the situation.
是的，这也是一种解决方法。也可能留下做撞击实验用。它可能被破坏成一团废铁然后扔进仓库。看情况而定。
ThreeTwoOne123
What is the worst damage you've ever had to repair?
你修理过的最严重的损坏是什么呢？
Nicelysedated[S]
Crash wise...... Probably a F-16 that belly landed after an "inadvertent " gear retraction. We ended up having to get a jet that had been decommissioned and stored and making one whole jet from the 2.
Battle damage wise was a F-16 that went to strafe a convoy and had a bad round of ammo. The round exploded beside the cockpit punching a few holes in to the side of the plane.
坠毁的话......也许是一架F-16因为齿轮收缩的“疏忽”而用腹部着陆。我们有一架已经退役并被储存的喷气式飞机，然后用这两架飞机做了架完整的喷气式飞机。
战斗损伤的话是F-16扫射一个车队，坏的弹药在驾驶舱旁边爆炸，把飞机的一边穿了几个小洞。
ThreeTwoOne123
Was the f-16 landing or taking off?
是f16降落时还是起飞时造成的？
Nicelysedated[S]
Landing
降落时
hiopilot
Flaps up... oh !@#$@!#$...
襟翼全收……奥！@#$@!#$...
Catsfive
making one whole jet from the 2
I would love to hear more about this. This would be fascinating.
把两个飞机修成一架。我想听到更多这样的故事，这真有趣。
Yes.
Granted, the F15's body probably has more surface area than the wings, which is why it was possible. That and flight control computers are fucking boss at keeping things in the air.
是的，当然，可能因为f15机身的表面积可能比机翼的表面积大让它可以飞回来。再加上逆天的飞控计算机能让飞机在空中保持正常飞行。
KillAllTheThings 3 分/分4 分/分5 分/分 2 天 ago
And big fucking engines that can keep accelerating even when the nose is pointed straight up.
还有超逆天的发动机甚至能在机鼻竖起来的情况下加速。
engineer2012
its so powerful, it becomes more or less a rocket when at speed, so kinda doesnt need the wings....
推力是如此的强大，在达到最大速度时就像火箭一般 ，所以就不需要翅膀了……
H_E_Pennypacker
What happens to those planes that get so badly shot up? Completely scrapped? Good parts salvaged and used as replacements on other planes? Fixed up?
这些飞机被打成这样还能有什么用？ ？完全报废了？留下好的部分用来修其他飞机？确定？
-------------译者：suizheng6-审核者：chen_lt------------
Nicelysedated[S]
They do a cost analysis to determine the feasibility of repairing it. Most of the time it's cheaper to fix then it's is to buy a new one. And most of these planes aren't manufactured anymore, so you really aren't left with many options.
他们会做一个成本分析以确定修好它是否可行。多数情况是修比买新的更便宜。而且这些飞机大多数不再继续研发，所以你真的没有太多选项可选。
H_E_Pennypacker
Say the cost analysis determines that the plane is not feasible to repair. Do they re-use the parts that are not damaged?
要是说分析报告得出这些飞机不值得修复，那么他们会不会再利用飞机上没有损坏的零部件呢？
Nicelysedated[S]
Yes. That is an option. That might just keep it to study crashes too. It might get moth balled and placed into storage. Depends on the situation.
是的，这也是一种解决方法。也可能留下做撞击实验用。它可能被破坏成一团废铁然后扔进仓库。看情况而定。
ThreeTwoOne123
What is the worst damage you've ever had to repair?
你修理过的最严重的损坏是什么呢？
Nicelysedated[S]
Crash wise...... Probably a F-16 that belly landed after an "inadvertent " gear retraction. We ended up having to get a jet that had been decommissioned and stored and making one whole jet from the 2.
Battle damage wise was a F-16 that went to strafe a convoy and had a bad round of ammo. The round exploded beside the cockpit punching a few holes in to the side of the plane.
坠毁的话......也许是一架F-16因为齿轮收缩的“疏忽”而用腹部着陆。我们有一架已经退役并被储存的喷气式飞机，然后用这两架飞机做了架完整的喷气式飞机。
战斗损伤的话是F-16扫射一个车队，坏的弹药在驾驶舱旁边爆炸，把飞机的一边穿了几个小洞。
ThreeTwoOne123
Was the f-16 landing or taking off?
是f16降落时还是起飞时造成的？
Nicelysedated[S]
Landing
降落时
hiopilot
Flaps up... oh !@#$@!#$...
襟翼全收……奥！@#$@!#$...
Catsfive
making one whole jet from the 2
I would love to hear more about this. This would be fascinating.
把两个飞机修成一架。我想听到更多这样的故事，这真有趣。
翻译的人
真心军迷
真心军迷