印度军网网友对沈飞31001的讨论 （转）如有重复，请删除

原文地址http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5784龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com

译文说明：这是印度军网论坛一个版块里对中国军事的集中讨论帖，从2011年1月11日开贴，原帖已经有88页，我选了沈飞31001照片出来以后的讨论进行翻译。
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一楼joygoswami   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 09:36  


Seems like these are first confirmed pics of the J-21/F-60 ??
看起来这似乎是J21或者F60最早发布的图片？
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二楼vivek_ahuja   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:19  

Oh this just keeps getting better. Another threat to counter in the coming years.
Good looking aircraft though.
哇哦，中国人一直在不断进步，这是未来几年对抗中的威胁
不过飞机挺好看
   
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三楼Austin   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:31  
Photochop or Real ?
Some years back there was news that someone managed to steal JSF design from LM computers , J-21 looks so much closer to JSF'ish type.
照片是P的还是真的？
几年前有一条新闻报道有人从LM（洛克希德·马丁公司）电脑窃取了JSF的设计，J21看起来跟JSF的风格太像了。
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四楼vivek_ahuja   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:46  

Looks real to me. It may be a photoshop, but I would bet against it. And it is NOT a photoshop, then we are looking at the first iteration of a serious threat down the line...
我认为这是真的。照片有可能是PS的，但我不这么认为。这不是PS的，我们会看到这将彻底严重威胁到迭代
      
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五楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:51  

Some wet dream....
（注：这三哥放了一张图叉掉了，然后他说）梦遗……
-----------------------------------------------------   
六楼DavidD   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:28  

回三楼：
Has some F-22 characteristics as well, most notably the giant vertical stabilizers and of course the twin engines.
是有一些F22的特征，尤其是巨型垂直尾翼和双引擎。
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karan_mc   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:31  

New Chinese Stealth Carrier Fighter F60 a.k.a. J21 Spotted!!
（这是一个网站链接）
Quote:
Chinese in just 18 months were able to put together their second Stealth Fighter after J-20 made it first flight in last Jan , but what was funny was that many western Chinese military observers had dismissed recent speculation over the development of China’s second stealth fighter J-21, after military fans posted pictures of a mysterious airframe covered by camouflage online.

All i can say to HAL and ADA is Stop Taking and start delivering  
引用上面网站链接里的话“在一月末J20进行了首飞之后，仅仅18个月的时间中国人又推出了第二款隐形战机，然而搞笑的是，在军迷把神秘机身掩盖照（粽子机照片）放在网上之后，许多西方的中国军事观察员驳回了网上有关中国在发展第二款隐形战机的推测。”
看到这里我只想对HAL（印度斯坦航空公司）和ADA说，快点交付军队吧     
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8楼DavidD   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:51  
A few observations:
1) This plane appears quite a bit smaller than the J-20, shorter at least. There doesn't seem to be space for side weapons bays, and the canopy is not one piece, so some load and stealth is sacrificed compared to the J-20 at the very least.
2) The plane has twin nose-wheels already, and since it's way too small to be a heavy striker, it's likely that this plane is designed to be carrier-borne first and foremost.
3) Kind of minor, but there's a pretty big gap between the fuselage and the engines, maybe some Radar/IR-suppression device will be installed. Perhaps saw-toothed nozzles like the J-20?
从图片中可以看到：
1）这架飞机机身看起来比J20要小，至少短了点。看起来似乎没有侧边武器舱的空间，而且它的座舱盖不是一体式座舱盖，至少跟J20比它牺牲了一些负载量和隐形术。
2）这架飞机已经有双前轮，体型太小显然不可能是重型攻击机，所以看起来它的设计理念最先考虑舰载。
3）机型小但是在机身轴和发动机之间有相当大的间隙，也许安装了雷达或者红外干扰设备，或许像J20那样的锯齿状喷嘴？
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9楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:02  
Posts: 223  DavidD wrote:
A few observations:
1) This plane appears quite a bit smaller than the J-20, shorter at least. There doesn't seem to be space for side weapons bays, and the canopy is not one piece, so some load and stealth is sacrificed compared to the J-20 at the very least.
2) The plane has twin nose-wheels already, and since it's way too small to be a heavy striker, it's likely that this plane is designed to be carrier-borne first and foremost.
3) Kind of minor, but there's a pretty big gap between the fuselage and the engines, maybe some Radar/IR-suppression device will be installed. Perhaps saw-toothed nozzles like the J-20?
以上引用8楼的话
Pakfa cockpit is not one piece either, so it can't be a big deal.
Chengdu has the J 20, Now Shenyang has the J 21, don't be surprise if Xian comes up with their own next.....
I think the J-21 is primarily for export. Its a private venture by Shenyang not backed by the government.
Pakafa的座舱盖也不是一体式的，所以这应该不是个大问题。
成飞研制出了J20，现在沈飞研制出J21，所以等西飞宣布他们的下一款战机不要惊讶……
我认为J21主要用于出口，沈飞是一家私人企业，没有政府的财力支持。
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10楼nakul   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:23  
Probably psy ops. The Chinese are showing their anti Japanese feelings. Might be a good time to reveal a new plane. The last time we saw such a thing was when Gates was in China. They want to show themselves as holding a few cards. This won't be superior to the J 20, so the oomph factor is considerable less.
From an Indian perspective, we should not expect this to be more of a challenge than the J 20. As the F 35 experience has shown, building a small 5th gen fighter has a lot of disadvantages. The AMCA seems to be avoiding this pitfall by calling itself "medium" from day 1. This could also boost AMCA funding. MMS has made his move;
Antony, your turn
有可能是心理战。现在中国人反日情绪高涨，这或许是泄露出新战机信息的好时机。我们知道上次盖茨访华也出现了类似情况，中国人这么做是向别人展示他们手里的一些筹码。这架飞机不会比J20优秀，所以它的魅力相当小。
从印度的角度出发，我们应该认为J21不会带来比J20更大的威胁。F35的情况大家都知道了，研制小型的五代战机有很多损失弊端。AMCA似乎从一开始就在避免成为“过渡机”。这也可以促进AMCA的资金，MMS已经采取了一些措施。
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11楼Chinmayanand   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:33  
引用五楼挂掉的图片
Does this fly ?
它会飞吗？
---------------------------------------------------   
12楼Austin   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:40  

Has some F-22 characteristics as well, most notably the giant vertical stabilizers and of course the twin engines.
以上引用六楼的话
Yes thats true , even the J-20 has a large VS but movable this one appears to be static
BTW why is there a gap between the engine nozzle and fuselage does it have a functional engine or is it a full mock up
是的，就算是J20也有F22的大量特征，但是这个家伙看上去是静止的
顺便问一下为什么机身轴和发动机喷嘴之间有空隙，它有发动机吗或者说这就是一个仿真机（同等尺寸的模型）？
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13楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 15:23
As the F 35 experience has shown, building a small 5th gen fighter has a lot of disadvantages. The AMCA seems to be avoiding this pitfall by calling itself "medium" from day 1.
以上是引用10楼的话
Lol it does not matter if you called it "medium" or whatever. The fact is JSF, J 21, AMCA are all smaller size stealth plane which means shorter range and smaller pay load. You can't change the rule physics.
lol……不管你把它称作“过渡机”还是其他什么都无所谓，事实上JSF，J21，AMCA都是小型的隐形战机，也就是说攻击射程较短有效负载较小，你不能改变它们的物理特征
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14楼nakul   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 15:40  

You can certainly miniaturise a lot of things. America does have an advantage in the field of electronics. I don't think India & China can make an F 35 yet. In fact it would be foolish to go down that path. If the Chinese are doing so, India does not have much to worry about. I believe AMCA is going to be larger than F 35. But I will wait before getting the exact measurements of J 21, AMCA. China would need a fighter that can open the doors (like the F 22 for US, FGFA for India). Somehow J 20 does not fit that role. Having an F 35 without an F 22 for the air superiority role is suicidal IMHO. Unless a 3rd 5th gen plane is cooking up in somewhere in China, this plane is trying to fit into the shoes of a larger plane.
你当然可以小型化很多东西，美国在电子学领域的确拥有优势，我也认为中国和印度不能制造出F35。事实上走武器小型化那条路线非常愚蠢，如果中国这么做了，那么印度不需要太担心。我相信AMCA会比F35体型大，但是在J21和AMCA的准确参数出来之前我保持观望态度。中国需要战斗机进行扩张（其意义就像F22之于美国，FGFA之于印度）可惜J20不适合这个角色。依鄙人愚见，没有F22配合的F35想取得压倒性的制空权无异于自杀。除非中国能够山寨出第三款的五代战机，这架飞机适合与更大的飞机配合作业。

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15楼wong   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 19:47  

^^^^
AMCA is vaporware. How long did LCA take, 40 years?? We'll all be dead before AMCA.
The F-35's problems have nothing to do with its size. It was the original design parameter of having a single platform satisfy all the future Air Force, Navy and Marines fighter requirements (which are all different). The US Navy never wanted the F-35. It's always had twin engines fighters for carriers, because it's a simple reliability issue with a single engine. Add the Marine vertical takeoff requirement and of course the F-35 is a disaster. China doesn't have any of these problems.
^^^^
AMCA奏是个雾件，LCA研发用了多久时间，40年？等到AMCA出来我们估计都挂了。
F35的问题跟它的大小无关。它最初设计者想建造一个满足未来所有海军空军海军陆战队对战斗机需要的单一平台（然而它们的需求是不一样的），美国海军从来就不想要F35，双引擎这是为了在海洋上能够垂直起降，显然F35是一个失败产品。中国不存在这些问题。
（注：雾件，指面世前就大肆炒作宣传，实际上却一拖再拖只闻其声不见其影的产品。这词儿太符合三哥的东西了有木有）
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16楼nakul   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:20  
Posts: 609  Quote:
AMCA is vaporware. How long did LCA take, 40 years?? We'll all be dead before AMCA.
以上引用15楼的话
How old are you? My respects glandpa. Take care to exclude red meat from your diet. Not good at this age  
您老多大啦？我尊重glandpa（大概是grandpa= =），注意你的饮食，不要吃红肉了，您的年纪不合适。
Quote:
The F-35's problems have nothing to do with its size. It was the original design parameter of having a single platform satisfy all the future Air Force, Navy and Marines fighter requirements (which are all different). The US Navy never wanted the F-35. It's always had twin engines fighters for carriers, because it's a simple reliability issue with a single engine. Add the Marine vertical takeoff requirement and of course the F-35 is a disaster. China doesn't have any of these problems.
依旧是引用15楼的话
As a previous poster said, "The fact is JSF, J 21, AMCA are all smaller size stealth plane which means shorter range and smaller pay load. You can't change the rule physics." Since he knows the measurements of vaporware, you better trust him
前面有筒子说了“事实是上SF，J21，AMCA都是小型的隐形战机，也就是说攻击射程较短有效负载较小，你不能改变物理特性”，他知道雾件的参数，你最好相信他
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17楼sarabpal.s   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:28  

^^^^
AMCA is vaporware. How long did LCA take, 40 years?? We'll all be dead before AMCA.
以上引用15楼的话
This type of statement happen Wong when u start ignoring facts. Thief always die thief but hard earner always get respect frm all.  Time prevails
wong筒子，你说这样的话说明你忽略了事实。小偷永远是小偷，勤劳努力赚钱的人总会赢得所有人的尊敬。时间证明一切。
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18楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:33  

As a previous poster said, "The fact is JSF, J 21, AMCA are all smaller size stealth plane which means shorter range and smaller pay load. You can't change the rule physics." Since he knows the measurements of vaporware, you better trust him
引用16楼的话
Good thing about vaporware is you can make it any size you want. You can even call it "medium" even if its small.  
Now lets go back to topic...
雾件的优势之处在于你说它多大它就多大，即使它是是小型战机你也可以叫它“过渡机”
好了，正楼
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21楼SaiK   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:49  
The problem with Elephants are not the same with Dragons. Dragons are giants and almost non-existent now. Whereas Elephants don't move fast, and are not fantasies.. but will deliver what is needed for living. It can not only safeguard itself and its family, but also the forest from wild beasts (terrorists crossing into peaceful India forest, and destroying peace crossing yellow sea). Most importantly, Elephants leave a gene and behavior trail to follow up for the baby elephants to follow. They are well ordained and cultural group. They can also secretly communicate in stealth., and destroy the enemy only when they are disturbed.
龙和象的情况是不一样的。龙是巨型动物而现实中几乎不存在，反之大象不会行动很快并且没有神秘感。但是愿望传递的信息是生活所需。大象不仅会保护自己以及家人，还有森林里的野兽（比喻：藏匿于充满和平的印度森林里的恐怖分子和破坏黄海和平的恐怖分子）。最重要的是，大象会将基因和行为遗传给小象并让他们遵循。象群是有文化文明的群体。它们能在隐形状态下秘密交流，而且在别人打扰它们的时候，它们会消灭敌人。
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24楼bhavani   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 03:43  


Boy these chinese are either superfast at photoshopping or really produce fast. Are these photos real.
骚年们，这些中国人要么运用PS很逆天要么就是产出速度真的很快。这些图片真实么
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25楼Don   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 04:32  
Boy these chinese are either superfast at photoshopping or really produce fast. Are these photos real.
CG....
楼上，这是CG……
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27楼SaiK   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 04:57  
Boy these chinese are either superfast at photoshopping or really produce fast. Are these photos real./quote]
CG....
CG -> Copy Gen? like in next gen!?
CG的全称是Copy Gen（山寨情报）？
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28楼kmc_chacko   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 08:12  
what the heck is going on ?  
这特么的是啥情况？
原文地址http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5784龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com

译文说明：这是印度军网论坛一个版块里对中国军事的集中讨论帖，从2011年1月11日开贴，原帖已经有88页，我选了沈飞31001照片出来以后的讨论进行翻译。
---------------------------------------------------
一楼joygoswami   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 09:36  


Seems like these are first confirmed pics of the J-21/F-60 ??
看起来这似乎是J21或者F60最早发布的图片？
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二楼vivek_ahuja   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:19  

Oh this just keeps getting better. Another threat to counter in the coming years.
Good looking aircraft though.
哇哦，中国人一直在不断进步，这是未来几年对抗中的威胁
不过飞机挺好看
   
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三楼Austin   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:31  
Photochop or Real ?
Some years back there was news that someone managed to steal JSF design from LM computers , J-21 looks so much closer to JSF'ish type.
照片是P的还是真的？
几年前有一条新闻报道有人从LM（洛克希德·马丁公司）电脑窃取了JSF的设计，J21看起来跟JSF的风格太像了。
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四楼vivek_ahuja   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:46  

Looks real to me. It may be a photoshop, but I would bet against it. And it is NOT a photoshop, then we are looking at the first iteration of a serious threat down the line...
我认为这是真的。照片有可能是PS的，但我不这么认为。这不是PS的，我们会看到这将彻底严重威胁到迭代
      
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五楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 11:51  

Some wet dream....
（注：这三哥放了一张图叉掉了，然后他说）梦遗……
-----------------------------------------------------   
六楼DavidD   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:28  

回三楼：
Has some F-22 characteristics as well, most notably the giant vertical stabilizers and of course the twin engines.
是有一些F22的特征，尤其是巨型垂直尾翼和双引擎。
------------------------------------------------------
karan_mc   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:31  

New Chinese Stealth Carrier Fighter F60 a.k.a. J21 Spotted!!
（这是一个网站链接）
Quote:
Chinese in just 18 months were able to put together their second Stealth Fighter after J-20 made it first flight in last Jan , but what was funny was that many western Chinese military observers had dismissed recent speculation over the development of China’s second stealth fighter J-21, after military fans posted pictures of a mysterious airframe covered by camouflage online.

All i can say to HAL and ADA is Stop Taking and start delivering  
引用上面网站链接里的话“在一月末J20进行了首飞之后，仅仅18个月的时间中国人又推出了第二款隐形战机，然而搞笑的是，在军迷把神秘机身掩盖照（粽子机照片）放在网上之后，许多西方的中国军事观察员驳回了网上有关中国在发展第二款隐形战机的推测。”
看到这里我只想对HAL（印度斯坦航空公司）和ADA说，快点交付军队吧     
------------------------------------------------------
8楼DavidD   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:51  
A few observations:
1) This plane appears quite a bit smaller than the J-20, shorter at least. There doesn't seem to be space for side weapons bays, and the canopy is not one piece, so some load and stealth is sacrificed compared to the J-20 at the very least.
2) The plane has twin nose-wheels already, and since it's way too small to be a heavy striker, it's likely that this plane is designed to be carrier-borne first and foremost.
3) Kind of minor, but there's a pretty big gap between the fuselage and the engines, maybe some Radar/IR-suppression device will be installed. Perhaps saw-toothed nozzles like the J-20?
从图片中可以看到：
1）这架飞机机身看起来比J20要小，至少短了点。看起来似乎没有侧边武器舱的空间，而且它的座舱盖不是一体式座舱盖，至少跟J20比它牺牲了一些负载量和隐形术。
2）这架飞机已经有双前轮，体型太小显然不可能是重型攻击机，所以看起来它的设计理念最先考虑舰载。
3）机型小但是在机身轴和发动机之间有相当大的间隙，也许安装了雷达或者红外干扰设备，或许像J20那样的锯齿状喷嘴？
--------------------------------------------------------
9楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:02  
Posts: 223  DavidD wrote:
A few observations:
1) This plane appears quite a bit smaller than the J-20, shorter at least. There doesn't seem to be space for side weapons bays, and the canopy is not one piece, so some load and stealth is sacrificed compared to the J-20 at the very least.
2) The plane has twin nose-wheels already, and since it's way too small to be a heavy striker, it's likely that this plane is designed to be carrier-borne first and foremost.
3) Kind of minor, but there's a pretty big gap between the fuselage and the engines, maybe some Radar/IR-suppression device will be installed. Perhaps saw-toothed nozzles like the J-20?
以上引用8楼的话
Pakfa cockpit is not one piece either, so it can't be a big deal.
Chengdu has the J 20, Now Shenyang has the J 21, don't be surprise if Xian comes up with their own next.....
I think the J-21 is primarily for export. Its a private venture by Shenyang not backed by the government.
Pakafa的座舱盖也不是一体式的，所以这应该不是个大问题。
成飞研制出了J20，现在沈飞研制出J21，所以等西飞宣布他们的下一款战机不要惊讶……
我认为J21主要用于出口，沈飞是一家私人企业，没有政府的财力支持。
---------------------------------------------------   
10楼nakul   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:23  
Probably psy ops. The Chinese are showing their anti Japanese feelings. Might be a good time to reveal a new plane. The last time we saw such a thing was when Gates was in China. They want to show themselves as holding a few cards. This won't be superior to the J 20, so the oomph factor is considerable less.
From an Indian perspective, we should not expect this to be more of a challenge than the J 20. As the F 35 experience has shown, building a small 5th gen fighter has a lot of disadvantages. The AMCA seems to be avoiding this pitfall by calling itself "medium" from day 1. This could also boost AMCA funding. MMS has made his move;
Antony, your turn
有可能是心理战。现在中国人反日情绪高涨，这或许是泄露出新战机信息的好时机。我们知道上次盖茨访华也出现了类似情况，中国人这么做是向别人展示他们手里的一些筹码。这架飞机不会比J20优秀，所以它的魅力相当小。
从印度的角度出发，我们应该认为J21不会带来比J20更大的威胁。F35的情况大家都知道了，研制小型的五代战机有很多损失弊端。AMCA似乎从一开始就在避免成为“过渡机”。这也可以促进AMCA的资金，MMS已经采取了一些措施。
---------------------------------------------------   
11楼Chinmayanand   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:33  
引用五楼挂掉的图片
Does this fly ?
它会飞吗？
---------------------------------------------------   
12楼Austin   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 14:40  

Has some F-22 characteristics as well, most notably the giant vertical stabilizers and of course the twin engines.
以上引用六楼的话
Yes thats true , even the J-20 has a large VS but movable this one appears to be static
BTW why is there a gap between the engine nozzle and fuselage does it have a functional engine or is it a full mock up
是的，就算是J20也有F22的大量特征，但是这个家伙看上去是静止的
顺便问一下为什么机身轴和发动机喷嘴之间有空隙，它有发动机吗或者说这就是一个仿真机（同等尺寸的模型）？
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13楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 15:23
As the F 35 experience has shown, building a small 5th gen fighter has a lot of disadvantages. The AMCA seems to be avoiding this pitfall by calling itself "medium" from day 1.
以上是引用10楼的话
Lol it does not matter if you called it "medium" or whatever. The fact is JSF, J 21, AMCA are all smaller size stealth plane which means shorter range and smaller pay load. You can't change the rule physics.
lol……不管你把它称作“过渡机”还是其他什么都无所谓，事实上JSF，J21，AMCA都是小型的隐形战机，也就是说攻击射程较短有效负载较小，你不能改变它们的物理特征
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14楼nakul   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 15:40  

You can certainly miniaturise a lot of things. America does have an advantage in the field of electronics. I don't think India & China can make an F 35 yet. In fact it would be foolish to go down that path. If the Chinese are doing so, India does not have much to worry about. I believe AMCA is going to be larger than F 35. But I will wait before getting the exact measurements of J 21, AMCA. China would need a fighter that can open the doors (like the F 22 for US, FGFA for India). Somehow J 20 does not fit that role. Having an F 35 without an F 22 for the air superiority role is suicidal IMHO. Unless a 3rd 5th gen plane is cooking up in somewhere in China, this plane is trying to fit into the shoes of a larger plane.
你当然可以小型化很多东西，美国在电子学领域的确拥有优势，我也认为中国和印度不能制造出F35。事实上走武器小型化那条路线非常愚蠢，如果中国这么做了，那么印度不需要太担心。我相信AMCA会比F35体型大，但是在J21和AMCA的准确参数出来之前我保持观望态度。中国需要战斗机进行扩张（其意义就像F22之于美国，FGFA之于印度）可惜J20不适合这个角色。依鄙人愚见，没有F22配合的F35想取得压倒性的制空权无异于自杀。除非中国能够山寨出第三款的五代战机，这架飞机适合与更大的飞机配合作业。

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15楼wong   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 19:47  

^^^^
AMCA is vaporware. How long did LCA take, 40 years?? We'll all be dead before AMCA.
The F-35's problems have nothing to do with its size. It was the original design parameter of having a single platform satisfy all the future Air Force, Navy and Marines fighter requirements (which are all different). The US Navy never wanted the F-35. It's always had twin engines fighters for carriers, because it's a simple reliability issue with a single engine. Add the Marine vertical takeoff requirement and of course the F-35 is a disaster. China doesn't have any of these problems.
^^^^
AMCA奏是个雾件，LCA研发用了多久时间，40年？等到AMCA出来我们估计都挂了。
F35的问题跟它的大小无关。它最初设计者想建造一个满足未来所有海军空军海军陆战队对战斗机需要的单一平台（然而它们的需求是不一样的），美国海军从来就不想要F35，双引擎这是为了在海洋上能够垂直起降，显然F35是一个失败产品。中国不存在这些问题。
（注：雾件，指面世前就大肆炒作宣传，实际上却一拖再拖只闻其声不见其影的产品。这词儿太符合三哥的东西了有木有）
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16楼nakul   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:20  
Posts: 609  Quote:
AMCA is vaporware. How long did LCA take, 40 years?? We'll all be dead before AMCA.
以上引用15楼的话
How old are you? My respects glandpa. Take care to exclude red meat from your diet. Not good at this age  
您老多大啦？我尊重glandpa（大概是grandpa= =），注意你的饮食，不要吃红肉了，您的年纪不合适。
Quote:
The F-35's problems have nothing to do with its size. It was the original design parameter of having a single platform satisfy all the future Air Force, Navy and Marines fighter requirements (which are all different). The US Navy never wanted the F-35. It's always had twin engines fighters for carriers, because it's a simple reliability issue with a single engine. Add the Marine vertical takeoff requirement and of course the F-35 is a disaster. China doesn't have any of these problems.
依旧是引用15楼的话
As a previous poster said, "The fact is JSF, J 21, AMCA are all smaller size stealth plane which means shorter range and smaller pay load. You can't change the rule physics." Since he knows the measurements of vaporware, you better trust him
前面有筒子说了“事实是上SF，J21，AMCA都是小型的隐形战机，也就是说攻击射程较短有效负载较小，你不能改变物理特性”，他知道雾件的参数，你最好相信他
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17楼sarabpal.s   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:28  

^^^^
AMCA is vaporware. How long did LCA take, 40 years?? We'll all be dead before AMCA.
以上引用15楼的话
This type of statement happen Wong when u start ignoring facts. Thief always die thief but hard earner always get respect frm all.  Time prevails
wong筒子，你说这样的话说明你忽略了事实。小偷永远是小偷，勤劳努力赚钱的人总会赢得所有人的尊敬。时间证明一切。
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18楼Don   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:33  

As a previous poster said, "The fact is JSF, J 21, AMCA are all smaller size stealth plane which means shorter range and smaller pay load. You can't change the rule physics." Since he knows the measurements of vaporware, you better trust him
引用16楼的话
Good thing about vaporware is you can make it any size you want. You can even call it "medium" even if its small.  
Now lets go back to topic...
雾件的优势之处在于你说它多大它就多大，即使它是是小型战机你也可以叫它“过渡机”
好了，正楼
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21楼SaiK   Posted: 16 Sep 2012 20:49  
The problem with Elephants are not the same with Dragons. Dragons are giants and almost non-existent now. Whereas Elephants don't move fast, and are not fantasies.. but will deliver what is needed for living. It can not only safeguard itself and its family, but also the forest from wild beasts (terrorists crossing into peaceful India forest, and destroying peace crossing yellow sea). Most importantly, Elephants leave a gene and behavior trail to follow up for the baby elephants to follow. They are well ordained and cultural group. They can also secretly communicate in stealth., and destroy the enemy only when they are disturbed.
龙和象的情况是不一样的。龙是巨型动物而现实中几乎不存在，反之大象不会行动很快并且没有神秘感。但是愿望传递的信息是生活所需。大象不仅会保护自己以及家人，还有森林里的野兽（比喻：藏匿于充满和平的印度森林里的恐怖分子和破坏黄海和平的恐怖分子）。最重要的是，大象会将基因和行为遗传给小象并让他们遵循。象群是有文化文明的群体。它们能在隐形状态下秘密交流，而且在别人打扰它们的时候，它们会消灭敌人。
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24楼bhavani   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 03:43  


Boy these chinese are either superfast at photoshopping or really produce fast. Are these photos real.
骚年们，这些中国人要么运用PS很逆天要么就是产出速度真的很快。这些图片真实么
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25楼Don   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 04:32  
Boy these chinese are either superfast at photoshopping or really produce fast. Are these photos real.
CG....
楼上，这是CG……
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27楼SaiK   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 04:57  
Boy these chinese are either superfast at photoshopping or really produce fast. Are these photos real./quote]
CG....
CG -> Copy Gen? like in next gen!?
CG的全称是Copy Gen（山寨情报）？
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28楼kmc_chacko   Posted: 17 Sep 2012 08:12  
what the heck is going on ?  
这特么的是啥情况？