成都的迷雾消散中 原创翻译完工 《航空周刊》Bill Swee ...

20. Charley A. wrote:
Clearly the Navy needs to get the NGAD going sooner than planned. If F-22 production is somehow extended, perhaps a new -B could incorporate better materials, coatings, corrosion control, avionics, sensors and software developed for the F-35.
12/29/2010 10:45 AM CST
Recommend (2)  
显然海军需要其下一代机机NGAD加快进度了。如果F-22产量增加，也许新的-B型会整合了为F-35开发的更好的材料，涂层，防腐性能，电子设备，传感器和软件。
（看来隐身涂层维护很麻烦啊）

21. Slider wrote:
The Russians and the Chinese are slowly catching the USA up with the PAK-FA and now the J-20, both of which are intended to be powerful high flying stealthy fighters with maybe some multi role function of the F-22 ilk. The US has the F-22, the only western fighter capable of mixing it with these boys. Production stopped at 187???
Instead all the US and NATO ally eggs are in the F-35 basket, a fighter bomber blessed with about 50% of the F-22 performance and AA weapon carrying capability. Why? More bucks for LM through foreign sales? Government incapable of logical thought or inaccurate threat assessment?
Taiwan won't be a happy place in the coming years that's for sure and NATO's northern flank will be dangerous;y exposed come 2015 with PAK-FA and SU-35 against Norwegian F-35s.
Answer: Declassify the F-22 to allow foreign sales, get rid of the horrendously expensive and difficult to maintain stealth coating and use something cheaper and simpler if less affective and let the F-22 be the answer to these new fighters. It is the best fighter in the world at this moment so to stop production makes no sense at all and demonstrates flawed thinking and an over confident approach to future threat assessment.
12/29/2010 10:47 AM CST
Recommend (12)  
俄国和中国正用PAK-FA和J-20慢慢逐步追赶美国。两者设计意图都是强有力的高空隐形战机，也许还具有F-22家族的多用途性能。F-22是唯一能对抗他们的西方战机。生产187架就停工了？？？
作为替代品，美国和北约盟国们把所有鸡蛋放在F-35篮子里。但是其只有50% 的F-22性能，有带AA导弹的能力。这是为神马啊？为了更多谋求洛马公司的外销么？政府没有逻辑思考能力还是对威胁的错误评估呢？
以后的年月台湾不会开心了。当然北约的北部一侧同样会很危险地裸露着。到2015年 PAK-FA 和SU-35 对抗挪威的 F-35.

出路：解密F-22允许其外销，去掉其贵得怕人而且很难维护的隐身涂层，如果影响不是很大的话用点便宜些简单些的材料替代。让这样的F-22对付这些新机机。现在F-22依然是世界上最好的战斗机，停止生产是完全没道理的。这也显示了我们有缺陷的思路和对未来威胁的过度乐观

支持人数 （12）

22.  BDF wrote:
What's the deal with that ginormous main gear door?
12/29/2010 10:47 AM CST

那些别提有多大的主起落机械门是啥原因啊？

viperfan wrote:
BDF.. easier? Better from stealth perspective? Wheel goes up. Door closes. Done.
12/29/2010 11:10 AM CST

楼上的...为了更容易点？更好的隐身？轮子起来，关门，完事。

23. George Zip wrote:
Solomon - I don't always agree with you, but in this instance you're spot on. We're hearing exactly the same gnashing of teeth that followed Flatpack's appearance, with exactly the same lack of understanding as to the F-22's capabilities. Sure, like the J-10 the J-20 may look interesting from a aerodynamic perspective, but the reliance on Sovbloc and 'borrowed' Western systems will leave it wanting against the F-22 and other true integrated 'digital battlefield' types. It's all rather reminiscent of the MiG scares of the '70s and '80s.
12/29/2010 11:11 AM CST
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Somomon - 我并不是总认同你的，但这点上你说中了。
这和我们和当年跟随平板（MIG-39，即1.44）出现的口水一摸一样，同样缺乏对F-22能力的完全理解。
可以肯定，像J-10一样，J-20可能看起来在气动方面很有趣，但是其对俄制发动机的依赖和 “借来的” 西方系统使其在F-22以及其他真正整合了数字战场能力的机机面前，完全不够格。
这和70，80年代的米格恐慌是一回事。

24. OldGDFWguy wrote:
Although very few of the detail level design features are visible in the photos to date, there is one observation that can be made:

Why do the J-20 landing gear doors not have the sawtooth edges like the B-1, F-22, and F-35?
12/29/2010 11:26 AM CST
Recommend (1)  

虽然照片上很多设计细节看不出来，但有一点看得明显：

为何J-20起落架舱门没有像B-1, F-22和F-35那样是锯齿的呢？


25. Airpower wrote:

George and Sol

You guys are fooling yourselves. It's impossible to dismiss the advances that China has made in airpower technology, thinking and practice over the last five, 10 or 15 years. Modern China is working with a level of industrial skill and technological access that the Soviet Union never had, driven by a collective will and bottomless funding of the kind the Russians lost 30 years ago. Unlike the Soviet Union, China does not seek to take on or control the rest of the world - just the parts of the world where it sees its interests are at stake. A very methodical and well-thought-out plan to put that capability in place is unfolding before your eyes. China seeks the ability to do what wants, when it wants, with the minimum of hinderance. China is not automatically the bad guy, but *is* moving to be the biggest guy in the room. If you choose to ignore that then it will be your (figurative) funeral.
12/29/2010 11:30 AM CST
Recommend (23)  

George 和 Sol 同学：
你们在自欺欺人啊。经过他们过去的5年，10年或15年的思考和实践，中国在航空科技上的进步我们怎么能视而不见。在集中意志和无限的资金的驱动下，现代的中国正在使用的工业技能和科技水平是当年苏联从来没有的。这些俄国人30年前就丢失了。
和苏联不一样，中国并不追求控制或代表世界的其他地方，只是关注其有利可图并危如累卵的区域。
在我们眼中看来，他们的是非常有方法地把考虑充分的计划放到合适的地方。
中国追求的是，在想做的时候，做想做的事情，还没啥外来干扰。
中国并不是自然而然的坏蛋，但*却是*在变成屋子里的最大的人物。如果你还一叶障目的话，这就会是你的葬礼。

支持人数 （23）（我很赞同）

26. Slider wrote:
Airpower: Very well said indeed, China wants to be 'The Power' of it's own region.
12/29/2010 11:36 AM CST
Recommend (6)  

楼上的，说得好，说得对。中国想成为其自己地区的“权力人物”

27 .AHP wrote:
I agree with Airpower. The PRC is a sovereign country and will naturally do what is in its best interest. No reason to be jealous. Our defense leaders seem to be forgetting about the needs for long range power projection. We need planes like this to refocus us.
12/29/2010 11:46 AM CST
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我同意Airpower的看法。中国是中央集权国家，很自然会做利益最大的事。没理由嫉妒他们。
我们的国防领导们看起来忘了对远程火力投送的需求。我们需要这样的飞机。

（都把J-20当隐形版的F-111了哈）

28.  Bill Sweetman wrote:
What Airpower said.

It's not that the Chinese are planning to nuke or invade either Washington DC or Bognor Regis. But they are no longer going to put up with foreigners messing with what they define as local and regional affairs. They are moving towards a situation where, if they favor one solution to a regional issue and we favor another, there will be no argument. Call it our "Suez moment".
12/29/2010 12:03 PM CST
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如Airpower所说。

中国人并不计划核平或入侵华盛顿特区或Bognor Regis （英国南部小镇）。但他们再也不想让外国人干涉其认定的本地或本地区事务了。
他们正转进这样的状况：如果他们对本地区事务有处理倾向，而我们美国偏向另外的话，那就不用争了。
我把这叫做我们的“苏伊士危机”。（当年埃及收回苏伊士运河，自己做主）

（博主Bill Sweetman 回复）
支持人数（12）


29.  ghemago wrote:
Our? !!!
Is UK going to have another Suez moment? ;-)
12/29/2010 12:22 PM CST
Recommend (2)  


我们？！！！

英国要再来一次苏伊士危机么？  ；-)

(我呆了一会儿，发现这货其实是在装傻）

30. AHP wrote:
Not necessarily even as active as a "Suez Moment". More like a Chinese version of the Monroe Doctrine.
12/29/2010 12:40 PM CST
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无需搞到苏伊士危机那个地步。更像是中国版的“门罗主义”
（我们地区的事外人别干涉，当年美国的美洲策略）

31. Solomon wrote:
Airpower.

you're still reacting to a 'supposed' technological advancement with the kind of alarm that belongs on a playground not on these boards.

i'm hearing estimations of stealthiness based on what? the way that it looks? well hell's bells how can you be sure? how do you know where they are in stealth coatings? we know that they're hurting when it comes to engine design but we're suppose to assume that when it comes to designing a stealth interceptor that they've rung all the right notes?

as far as the PRC becoming a regional power, not counting the US, i think you would have to measure the Japanese, Australian, Vietnamese, Singapore, S. Korean and Indian reaction to determine whether they're truly the biggest kid in the room.

remember --- coalition warfare is suppose to be the wave of the future -- at least that was the bandwagon you and your ilk were on last week. so count me in the not scared but observant crowd.
12/29/2010 12:43 PM CST
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粪青回复：
Airpower兄，
你还是对一种 “假设” 的科技进步杞人忧天。
我洗耳恭听对其隐身能力的评估呢？外形么？你凭啥能肯定？你凭啥知道他们用了隐身涂层？我们都知道他们对发动机的隐痛。那么，我们能认为他们在设计隐身截击机时，方方面面都做到了么？

至于中国成为本地区巨人这方面，我想你该衡量衡量日本，澳大利亚，越南，新加坡，南韩和印度的反应，是不是认同他们是房间里最大的孩子？还还没算上俺们美国呢

记住， 未来的主流应该是联合作战。你们演你们的，我围观我的，谁怕谁啊。

32. MikeW wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thing hasn't even flown yet. Could it be the Chinese taxied this mockup around so photos would be leaked, expecting the US to increase F-22 production or some other countermove when in reality China's trump card may rest in new ICBM developments? A misdirection, similar to Russia cranking out Mig-25s in response to a few XB-70 prototypes.

如果我错了请指教。这玩意还从来没飞呢。这是不是中国人假装滑跑个仿品让照片流出，希望美国能增加F-22的产量或坐其它类似应对，而实际上中国的王牌是新的弹道导弹开发呢？这只是个欺诈误导，就比如当年我们开发出XB-70原型，俄国人做出MIG-25做回应。（导致XB-70神器流产）

（哎，我不晓得说啥好了，怨念颇深啊）

33. Firefox wrote:
Solo,
you have to keep your mind open. The fact that "we" can´t make plane in certain time doesn´t mean that "they" can´t do better. Germans had technical superiority over US in fighters though the whole World War Two, Russians had probably better designs since arrival of MiG-15 till the introduction of F-14/F-15, and MiG-29/Su-27/MiG-31 were superior in many aspects to US designs of eighties. US had upper hand thanks to quantity combined with decent quality, but it was about numbers. So US not having the best fighter is rather a norm than exception. But always the best in designing and building bombers, from B-17, B-25 and B-29, XB-70 to B-2, and many other types.

Solomon兄，
你得放开思想啊。我们不能在合适的时间造出战机不代表他们不能。
整个二战时期德国人的战机技术优于美国，从MIG-15开始直到F-14/F-15出现为止俄国人也许也同样在设计上领先，而且MIG-29/SU-27在很多方面比美国的80年代设计领先。美国要感谢数量+优良的质量带来的上风。所以历史上美国的战斗机不是世界最好的是常有的事，而不是例外。
但美国的轰炸机设计和制造永远是最好的，从B-17, B-25, B-29, XB-70到B2，以及很多其他型号们。

34. AHP wrote:
Dear Solomon, I do not think anyone is scared. But it is interesting to see the progress the PRC is making. A .75 Stealth FB_111 performance aircraft with modern precision guided munitions, modern targeting equipment and with supercruise is an interesting power projection tool. As far as its neighbors are concerned most of them are too small to seriously threaten the PRC even in a coalition. Does anyone think that Japan will suddenly increase their defense spending to 2 or 3% of their GDP. Australia is too far away and India seems to flounder with every defense project except rocketry. Since we do not have a paint scrapping to analyze we can only assume that an aircraft shaped as it is might have at least a first generation F-17 coating (courtesy of Serbia/Russia). Last week we did not know if the PRC could build a plane like this. Perseverance, research, hard work and money will solve the turbofan problem as well.
12/29/2010 1:06 PM CST
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亲爱的Solomon，我并不认为有谁在害怕。但中国所正在取得的进步是有趣的。这是一种75%版隐形的FB-111性能的，带有现代精确制导武器，现代追踪设备并能超巡的飞机，是一种令人有趣的火力投送工具。正如他们的邻居们所担心的，他们中大多数太弱小而即使联合起来都不能真正威胁到中国。
有人会认为日本突然增加国防预算至2-3%GDP水平么？澳大利亚太远，而印度在除了火箭之外的所有国防计划中深陷泥沼。

因为搞不到一片涂层碎片来研究，我们只能假设这样外形的飞机应该会至少有第一代F-17的涂层水平(慷慨的塞尔维亚和俄国啊）。（意指当年掉在南联盟的那架F-117)

上周我们还不晓得中国能做这样的飞机呢。坚定不移，认真研究，努力工作和大把钞票终将解决涡扇的问题的。（嗯嗯嗯，对对对）


35. OldGDFWguy wrote:
AHP, I think the historic operating procedures used by the PRC suggests that we add reverse engineering and maybe industrial espionage to your last sentence, "Perseverance, research, hard work and money will solve the turbofan problem as well".
12/29/2010 1:26 PM CST

楼上的，我想中国的过往历史手段建议我们在你那句“坚定不移，认真研究，努力工作和大把钞票终将解决涡扇的问题的” 中再加上逆向山寨工程，也许还要加个工业间谍。

36. AHP wrote:
Dear OldGDFWguy. Point well taken. I neglected to state those, but I didn't what to diminish their efforts. Imitation after all is the sincerest form of flattery.
12/29/2010 1:33 PM CST
Recommend (5)  

楼上的，你说得好。我忽视了这两点，但我并不想看低他们自己本身的努力。终究说来，被仿造是对我们最诚挚的恭维。

37. Marcase wrote:
I agree that China is not on the verge of invading Washington or Paris or Canberra.
However, the latest shindig where China suddenly raised the prizes of precious metals to put some pressure on Japan is something that cannot be overlooked either.
Japan made clear, and quite publicy I might add, that it sees China as the main adversary, and not Russia.

China *is* an economical powerhouse, if only because it controls the flow of the new gold - the precious metals that you and I need for our mobile phones, iPads and what not.

And lets not forget China's grip on that vice that's firmly locked around America's lower abdominal area, which we call foreign debt.

I'm certainly no China-hater or warmonger, but it is undeniable that China is become more assertive - from its military rethoric up high to its fishermen down low.

China is facing some serious social problems in the near future, and that will frighten the Chinese politbureau as none other. And there's nothing more dangerous than a frightened politician controlling an army.
12/29/2010 2:01 PM CST
Recommend (4)  

我同意中国并不濒临于入侵华盛顿，巴黎或者堪培拉。
不过，最近中国突然提高稀土金属的价格从而对日本产生了压力。这所造成的骚乱是同样不容忽视的。
日本很清晰地，我还要说是很公开地，将中国视为主要对手。而不是俄国。

中国是一个经济发电站，只需要其控制好新的黄金的流向---你我的手机，IPad诸如此类的东西都需要稀土金属。（哥们你就只能想到这些东西么）
还有别忘了中国还抓紧了一把钳子，死死咬住美国的下腹部周围呢。我们把这个叫做美国外债。

我当然不是仇恨中国的人，也不是个好战分子。但不容忽视的是中国正在变得更咄咄逼人。上至庙堂至高，下到江湖之远。

不远的将来中国正在面对一些严重的社会问题...（后面的就不翻译了）

38. ghemago wrote:
I heard nobody saying thanks to our chinese friends for the present...
It was quite a dull christmas time in aviation, speaking again about how wonderfull is the F-35 and suddenly... it comes!!!
Just count the number of posts and responses.

Let me be the first... THANK YOU !!!
12/29/2010 2:11 PM CST
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我还没听到有人说句感谢的话给我们中国的朋友所呈现的这些...
这个圣诞本来是无趣的，还在一遍一遍地谈论F-35有多么多么好，然后突然之间...她出现了！！！
数数发帖的和回应的数量吧。

让我先来...谢谢你们！！！
支持人数（17）  （我也来，谢谢你们，卧草党爬墙党们，给我一个心花怒放的假期）

39. Fortress wrote:
I tend to think this aircraft has been deliberately leaked,as it is too easy to photograph it.Without the help of Russian aerospace help its not going anywhere for a few years.Does remind me of a stealthier F23,I go for long range interceptor.
But as the earlier comment it has brightened up
a snowy December 2010!!!My thanks to the guys who snapped it,Im sure they will be rewarded.....
12/29/2010 3:00 PM CST
Recommend (4)  

我倾向于认为这机机是有意泄密的，这些照片也来的太容易了。
要没有俄国的帮忙这机机接下来一些年内是发展不到哪里去的。
确实让我想起了F-23，远程截击机。

但和刚才的回复一样，这点亮了风雪交加的2010年12月！！！
我感谢那些偷拍的同志们，我相信他们会得到 “奖赏” 的......（呃，我不晓得他这样说的奖赏该不该加引号）



好了，有些没啥意思的就不翻译了。
这些是我今天整整一下午的工作，原创啊，只发在超大。潜水员没别的号，别再说我是某人了，谢谢。

另外补个昨天在别的地方看来的笑话：
有人说J-20对美国是个威胁，担心打起来怎么办。
某人回复大致如此：
No nations that have McDonald would ever went into war with each other.
胡说，有麦当劳的国家是从来不会相互开战的！



===

20. Charley A. wrote:
Clearly the Navy needs to get the NGAD going sooner than planned. If F-22 production is somehow extended, perhaps a new -B could incorporate better materials, coatings, corrosion control, avionics, sensors and software developed for the F-35.
12/29/2010 10:45 AM CST
Recommend (2)  
显然海军需要其下一代机机NGAD加快进度了。如果F-22产量增加，也许新的-B型会整合了为F-35开发的更好的材料，涂层，防腐性能，电子设备，传感器和软件。
（看来隐身涂层维护很麻烦啊）

21. Slider wrote:
The Russians and the Chinese are slowly catching the USA up with the PAK-FA and now the J-20, both of which are intended to be powerful high flying stealthy fighters with maybe some multi role function of the F-22 ilk. The US has the F-22, the only western fighter capable of mixing it with these boys. Production stopped at 187???
Instead all the US and NATO ally eggs are in the F-35 basket, a fighter bomber blessed with about 50% of the F-22 performance and AA weapon carrying capability. Why? More bucks for LM through foreign sales? Government incapable of logical thought or inaccurate threat assessment?
Taiwan won't be a happy place in the coming years that's for sure and NATO's northern flank will be dangerous;y exposed come 2015 with PAK-FA and SU-35 against Norwegian F-35s.
Answer: Declassify the F-22 to allow foreign sales, get rid of the horrendously expensive and difficult to maintain stealth coating and use something cheaper and simpler if less affective and let the F-22 be the answer to these new fighters. It is the best fighter in the world at this moment so to stop production makes no sense at all and demonstrates flawed thinking and an over confident approach to future threat assessment.
12/29/2010 10:47 AM CST
Recommend (12)  
俄国和中国正用PAK-FA和J-20慢慢逐步追赶美国。两者设计意图都是强有力的高空隐形战机，也许还具有F-22家族的多用途性能。F-22是唯一能对抗他们的西方战机。生产187架就停工了？？？
作为替代品，美国和北约盟国们把所有鸡蛋放在F-35篮子里。但是其只有50% 的F-22性能，有带AA导弹的能力。这是为神马啊？为了更多谋求洛马公司的外销么？政府没有逻辑思考能力还是对威胁的错误评估呢？
以后的年月台湾不会开心了。当然北约的北部一侧同样会很危险地裸露着。到2015年 PAK-FA 和SU-35 对抗挪威的 F-35.

出路：解密F-22允许其外销，去掉其贵得怕人而且很难维护的隐身涂层，如果影响不是很大的话用点便宜些简单些的材料替代。让这样的F-22对付这些新机机。现在F-22依然是世界上最好的战斗机，停止生产是完全没道理的。这也显示了我们有缺陷的思路和对未来威胁的过度乐观

支持人数 （12）

22.  BDF wrote:
What's the deal with that ginormous main gear door?
12/29/2010 10:47 AM CST

那些别提有多大的主起落机械门是啥原因啊？

viperfan wrote:
BDF.. easier? Better from stealth perspective? Wheel goes up. Door closes. Done.
12/29/2010 11:10 AM CST

楼上的...为了更容易点？更好的隐身？轮子起来，关门，完事。

23. George Zip wrote:
Solomon - I don't always agree with you, but in this instance you're spot on. We're hearing exactly the same gnashing of teeth that followed Flatpack's appearance, with exactly the same lack of understanding as to the F-22's capabilities. Sure, like the J-10 the J-20 may look interesting from a aerodynamic perspective, but the reliance on Sovbloc and 'borrowed' Western systems will leave it wanting against the F-22 and other true integrated 'digital battlefield' types. It's all rather reminiscent of the MiG scares of the '70s and '80s.
12/29/2010 11:11 AM CST
Recommend (4)  


Somomon - 我并不是总认同你的，但这点上你说中了。
这和我们和当年跟随平板（MIG-39，即1.44）出现的口水一摸一样，同样缺乏对F-22能力的完全理解。
可以肯定，像J-10一样，J-20可能看起来在气动方面很有趣，但是其对俄制发动机的依赖和 “借来的” 西方系统使其在F-22以及其他真正整合了数字战场能力的机机面前，完全不够格。
这和70，80年代的米格恐慌是一回事。

24. OldGDFWguy wrote:
Although very few of the detail level design features are visible in the photos to date, there is one observation that can be made:

Why do the J-20 landing gear doors not have the sawtooth edges like the B-1, F-22, and F-35?
12/29/2010 11:26 AM CST
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虽然照片上很多设计细节看不出来，但有一点看得明显：

为何J-20起落架舱门没有像B-1, F-22和F-35那样是锯齿的呢？


25. Airpower wrote:

George and Sol

You guys are fooling yourselves. It's impossible to dismiss the advances that China has made in airpower technology, thinking and practice over the last five, 10 or 15 years. Modern China is working with a level of industrial skill and technological access that the Soviet Union never had, driven by a collective will and bottomless funding of the kind the Russians lost 30 years ago. Unlike the Soviet Union, China does not seek to take on or control the rest of the world - just the parts of the world where it sees its interests are at stake. A very methodical and well-thought-out plan to put that capability in place is unfolding before your eyes. China seeks the ability to do what wants, when it wants, with the minimum of hinderance. China is not automatically the bad guy, but *is* moving to be the biggest guy in the room. If you choose to ignore that then it will be your (figurative) funeral.
12/29/2010 11:30 AM CST
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George 和 Sol 同学：
你们在自欺欺人啊。经过他们过去的5年，10年或15年的思考和实践，中国在航空科技上的进步我们怎么能视而不见。在集中意志和无限的资金的驱动下，现代的中国正在使用的工业技能和科技水平是当年苏联从来没有的。这些俄国人30年前就丢失了。
和苏联不一样，中国并不追求控制或代表世界的其他地方，只是关注其有利可图并危如累卵的区域。
在我们眼中看来，他们的是非常有方法地把考虑充分的计划放到合适的地方。
中国追求的是，在想做的时候，做想做的事情，还没啥外来干扰。
中国并不是自然而然的坏蛋，但*却是*在变成屋子里的最大的人物。如果你还一叶障目的话，这就会是你的葬礼。

支持人数 （23）（我很赞同）

26. Slider wrote:
Airpower: Very well said indeed, China wants to be 'The Power' of it's own region.
12/29/2010 11:36 AM CST
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楼上的，说得好，说得对。中国想成为其自己地区的“权力人物”

27 .AHP wrote:
I agree with Airpower. The PRC is a sovereign country and will naturally do what is in its best interest. No reason to be jealous. Our defense leaders seem to be forgetting about the needs for long range power projection. We need planes like this to refocus us.
12/29/2010 11:46 AM CST
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我同意Airpower的看法。中国是中央集权国家，很自然会做利益最大的事。没理由嫉妒他们。
我们的国防领导们看起来忘了对远程火力投送的需求。我们需要这样的飞机。

（都把J-20当隐形版的F-111了哈）

28.  Bill Sweetman wrote:
What Airpower said.

It's not that the Chinese are planning to nuke or invade either Washington DC or Bognor Regis. But they are no longer going to put up with foreigners messing with what they define as local and regional affairs. They are moving towards a situation where, if they favor one solution to a regional issue and we favor another, there will be no argument. Call it our "Suez moment".
12/29/2010 12:03 PM CST
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如Airpower所说。

中国人并不计划核平或入侵华盛顿特区或Bognor Regis （英国南部小镇）。但他们再也不想让外国人干涉其认定的本地或本地区事务了。
他们正转进这样的状况：如果他们对本地区事务有处理倾向，而我们美国偏向另外的话，那就不用争了。
我把这叫做我们的“苏伊士危机”。（当年埃及收回苏伊士运河，自己做主）

（博主Bill Sweetman 回复）
支持人数（12）


29.  ghemago wrote:
Our? !!!
Is UK going to have another Suez moment? ;-)
12/29/2010 12:22 PM CST
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我们？！！！

英国要再来一次苏伊士危机么？  ；-)

(我呆了一会儿，发现这货其实是在装傻）

30. AHP wrote:
Not necessarily even as active as a "Suez Moment". More like a Chinese version of the Monroe Doctrine.
12/29/2010 12:40 PM CST
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无需搞到苏伊士危机那个地步。更像是中国版的“门罗主义”
（我们地区的事外人别干涉，当年美国的美洲策略）

31. Solomon wrote:
Airpower.

you're still reacting to a 'supposed' technological advancement with the kind of alarm that belongs on a playground not on these boards.

i'm hearing estimations of stealthiness based on what? the way that it looks? well hell's bells how can you be sure? how do you know where they are in stealth coatings? we know that they're hurting when it comes to engine design but we're suppose to assume that when it comes to designing a stealth interceptor that they've rung all the right notes?

as far as the PRC becoming a regional power, not counting the US, i think you would have to measure the Japanese, Australian, Vietnamese, Singapore, S. Korean and Indian reaction to determine whether they're truly the biggest kid in the room.

remember --- coalition warfare is suppose to be the wave of the future -- at least that was the bandwagon you and your ilk were on last week. so count me in the not scared but observant crowd.
12/29/2010 12:43 PM CST
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粪青回复：
Airpower兄，
你还是对一种 “假设” 的科技进步杞人忧天。
我洗耳恭听对其隐身能力的评估呢？外形么？你凭啥能肯定？你凭啥知道他们用了隐身涂层？我们都知道他们对发动机的隐痛。那么，我们能认为他们在设计隐身截击机时，方方面面都做到了么？

至于中国成为本地区巨人这方面，我想你该衡量衡量日本，澳大利亚，越南，新加坡，南韩和印度的反应，是不是认同他们是房间里最大的孩子？还还没算上俺们美国呢

记住， 未来的主流应该是联合作战。你们演你们的，我围观我的，谁怕谁啊。

32. MikeW wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thing hasn't even flown yet. Could it be the Chinese taxied this mockup around so photos would be leaked, expecting the US to increase F-22 production or some other countermove when in reality China's trump card may rest in new ICBM developments? A misdirection, similar to Russia cranking out Mig-25s in response to a few XB-70 prototypes.

如果我错了请指教。这玩意还从来没飞呢。这是不是中国人假装滑跑个仿品让照片流出，希望美国能增加F-22的产量或坐其它类似应对，而实际上中国的王牌是新的弹道导弹开发呢？这只是个欺诈误导，就比如当年我们开发出XB-70原型，俄国人做出MIG-25做回应。（导致XB-70神器流产）

（哎，我不晓得说啥好了，怨念颇深啊）

33. Firefox wrote:
Solo,
you have to keep your mind open. The fact that "we" can´t make plane in certain time doesn´t mean that "they" can´t do better. Germans had technical superiority over US in fighters though the whole World War Two, Russians had probably better designs since arrival of MiG-15 till the introduction of F-14/F-15, and MiG-29/Su-27/MiG-31 were superior in many aspects to US designs of eighties. US had upper hand thanks to quantity combined with decent quality, but it was about numbers. So US not having the best fighter is rather a norm than exception. But always the best in designing and building bombers, from B-17, B-25 and B-29, XB-70 to B-2, and many other types.

Solomon兄，
你得放开思想啊。我们不能在合适的时间造出战机不代表他们不能。
整个二战时期德国人的战机技术优于美国，从MIG-15开始直到F-14/F-15出现为止俄国人也许也同样在设计上领先，而且MIG-29/SU-27在很多方面比美国的80年代设计领先。美国要感谢数量+优良的质量带来的上风。所以历史上美国的战斗机不是世界最好的是常有的事，而不是例外。
但美国的轰炸机设计和制造永远是最好的，从B-17, B-25, B-29, XB-70到B2，以及很多其他型号们。

34. AHP wrote:
Dear Solomon, I do not think anyone is scared. But it is interesting to see the progress the PRC is making. A .75 Stealth FB_111 performance aircraft with modern precision guided munitions, modern targeting equipment and with supercruise is an interesting power projection tool. As far as its neighbors are concerned most of them are too small to seriously threaten the PRC even in a coalition. Does anyone think that Japan will suddenly increase their defense spending to 2 or 3% of their GDP. Australia is too far away and India seems to flounder with every defense project except rocketry. Since we do not have a paint scrapping to analyze we can only assume that an aircraft shaped as it is might have at least a first generation F-17 coating (courtesy of Serbia/Russia). Last week we did not know if the PRC could build a plane like this. Perseverance, research, hard work and money will solve the turbofan problem as well.
12/29/2010 1:06 PM CST
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亲爱的Solomon，我并不认为有谁在害怕。但中国所正在取得的进步是有趣的。这是一种75%版隐形的FB-111性能的，带有现代精确制导武器，现代追踪设备并能超巡的飞机，是一种令人有趣的火力投送工具。正如他们的邻居们所担心的，他们中大多数太弱小而即使联合起来都不能真正威胁到中国。
有人会认为日本突然增加国防预算至2-3%GDP水平么？澳大利亚太远，而印度在除了火箭之外的所有国防计划中深陷泥沼。

因为搞不到一片涂层碎片来研究，我们只能假设这样外形的飞机应该会至少有第一代F-17的涂层水平(慷慨的塞尔维亚和俄国啊）。（意指当年掉在南联盟的那架F-117)

上周我们还不晓得中国能做这样的飞机呢。坚定不移，认真研究，努力工作和大把钞票终将解决涡扇的问题的。（嗯嗯嗯，对对对）


35. OldGDFWguy wrote:
AHP, I think the historic operating procedures used by the PRC suggests that we add reverse engineering and maybe industrial espionage to your last sentence, "Perseverance, research, hard work and money will solve the turbofan problem as well".
12/29/2010 1:26 PM CST

楼上的，我想中国的过往历史手段建议我们在你那句“坚定不移，认真研究，努力工作和大把钞票终将解决涡扇的问题的” 中再加上逆向山寨工程，也许还要加个工业间谍。

36. AHP wrote:
Dear OldGDFWguy. Point well taken. I neglected to state those, but I didn't what to diminish their efforts. Imitation after all is the sincerest form of flattery.
12/29/2010 1:33 PM CST
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楼上的，你说得好。我忽视了这两点，但我并不想看低他们自己本身的努力。终究说来，被仿造是对我们最诚挚的恭维。

37. Marcase wrote:
I agree that China is not on the verge of invading Washington or Paris or Canberra.
However, the latest shindig where China suddenly raised the prizes of precious metals to put some pressure on Japan is something that cannot be overlooked either.
Japan made clear, and quite publicy I might add, that it sees China as the main adversary, and not Russia.

China *is* an economical powerhouse, if only because it controls the flow of the new gold - the precious metals that you and I need for our mobile phones, iPads and what not.

And lets not forget China's grip on that vice that's firmly locked around America's lower abdominal area, which we call foreign debt.

I'm certainly no China-hater or warmonger, but it is undeniable that China is become more assertive - from its military rethoric up high to its fishermen down low.

China is facing some serious social problems in the near future, and that will frighten the Chinese politbureau as none other. And there's nothing more dangerous than a frightened politician controlling an army.
12/29/2010 2:01 PM CST
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我同意中国并不濒临于入侵华盛顿，巴黎或者堪培拉。
不过，最近中国突然提高稀土金属的价格从而对日本产生了压力。这所造成的骚乱是同样不容忽视的。
日本很清晰地，我还要说是很公开地，将中国视为主要对手。而不是俄国。

中国是一个经济发电站，只需要其控制好新的黄金的流向---你我的手机，IPad诸如此类的东西都需要稀土金属。（哥们你就只能想到这些东西么）
还有别忘了中国还抓紧了一把钳子，死死咬住美国的下腹部周围呢。我们把这个叫做美国外债。

我当然不是仇恨中国的人，也不是个好战分子。但不容忽视的是中国正在变得更咄咄逼人。上至庙堂至高，下到江湖之远。

不远的将来中国正在面对一些严重的社会问题...（后面的就不翻译了）

38. ghemago wrote:
I heard nobody saying thanks to our chinese friends for the present...
It was quite a dull christmas time in aviation, speaking again about how wonderfull is the F-35 and suddenly... it comes!!!
Just count the number of posts and responses.

Let me be the first... THANK YOU !!!
12/29/2010 2:11 PM CST
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我还没听到有人说句感谢的话给我们中国的朋友所呈现的这些...
这个圣诞本来是无趣的，还在一遍一遍地谈论F-35有多么多么好，然后突然之间...她出现了！！！
数数发帖的和回应的数量吧。

让我先来...谢谢你们！！！
支持人数（17）  （我也来，谢谢你们，卧草党爬墙党们，给我一个心花怒放的假期）

39. Fortress wrote:
I tend to think this aircraft has been deliberately leaked,as it is too easy to photograph it.Without the help of Russian aerospace help its not going anywhere for a few years.Does remind me of a stealthier F23,I go for long range interceptor.
But as the earlier comment it has brightened up
a snowy December 2010!!!My thanks to the guys who snapped it,Im sure they will be rewarded.....
12/29/2010 3:00 PM CST
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我倾向于认为这机机是有意泄密的，这些照片也来的太容易了。
要没有俄国的帮忙这机机接下来一些年内是发展不到哪里去的。
确实让我想起了F-23，远程截击机。

但和刚才的回复一样，这点亮了风雪交加的2010年12月！！！
我感谢那些偷拍的同志们，我相信他们会得到 “奖赏” 的......（呃，我不晓得他这样说的奖赏该不该加引号）



好了，有些没啥意思的就不翻译了。
这些是我今天整整一下午的工作，原创啊，只发在超大。潜水员没别的号，别再说我是某人了，谢谢。

另外补个昨天在别的地方看来的笑话：
有人说J-20对美国是个威胁，担心打起来怎么办。
某人回复大致如此：
No nations that have McDonald would ever went into war with each other.
胡说，有麦当劳的国家是从来不会相互开战的！



===

（对美国FQ）：对头，我们看到的是泡沫塑料机上了漆！

好文啊, 楼主继续

是原创翻译的话要顶了

强DING啊

LZ辛苦了，看来四代机的出现对美国人的震撼还是蛮大的

占位Mark

LZ继续，不错，挺给力的

老毛子是干过几架反复通过红场，好像是米亚4。

楼主辛苦啊，你的努力会得到大家的认可的，加油，感谢啊

现在只能让张局长出面了，让他们相信这几天看到的都是幻觉!!!!!

翻译辛苦了

nnd，北约似乎已经给J20命名了

像以前一样，F开头的，Firefang，什么烂名字，Firefox确实好多了

关注、继续。

翻得不错

等楼主！！！

老毛子用几架战斗机搬几架轰炸机（型号忘了），一遍又一遍的飞过红场，让MD以为已批量准备，实际只有四架而已。

“唉呦”，脸好痛……:D

LZ辛苦了

中国的领空上锁了

补个链接
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/b ... 1-a848-95ddfa7bbb72

　　
　　不错，不错，赞一个。

　　话说老美冒出的愤青确实不多啊，也赞一个。

　　咱们的Ｊ２０一定要给力啊，尽快去阎良。

　　ＷＳ１５更要给力啊，给Ｊ２０装上真正的翅膀。
　　

等下一半，楼主加油

呵呵 评价还是很平实的

回复 1# shicaca


     Soft Power Doctrine. 软实力嘛

回复 15# 寡人好色


    火牙也不错...

有的说的还算行

那个人也不一定是愤青，也许是美国精英、、、、、、、

美国的心态跟其他国家不同的，毕竟当了几十年的超级大国，那种大国国民带来的自信心，真是其他国家那种小肚鸡肠难以相比的。这种心态，就好比我国当年天朝上国时的心态。。。。

首先，据我看到的一些美国人的评论，吃惊有，吓怕了绝对没有，就是一种很不相信中国技术能够达到这种水平，毕竟美国20年前就飞了。然后联想到什么美国国债什么的以为中国要搞军备竞赛。所以他们认为这是个壳。。。这种认为是假的那种对自己国家领先科技的信心而导致的误解，与某些国家国民的那种泛酸形式的认为是假的有所不同。

中国的领空上锁了

很令人激动{:lei:}

还算客观

有意思，等下文！

不管WW MD 还是其他国家,都还是有一批按客观知识、技术水平说事的，那些人在俺们这里叫---BKC[:a9:]

楼主加油

ma851205 发表于 2010-12-30 14:15


    这事中国也干过，刚建国阅兵的时候也是飞机绕圈飞

谢谢集分享，楼主继续

楼主是SC大船？？？不是原创要注明啊！？

非常好
马克之

今天看到的最有质量的帖子，没有之一！！！