超级军网the french orgin of China\'s 730 CIWS
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French Samos system
source&courtesy: Jane's Naval Weapon Systems 1988-1989.
Courtesy 7seas, snake of CDF
ust because someone first called it the "Chinese Goalkeeper" doesn't make it based on that Dutch system. All the indications are that this system was based on the French SAMOS.
Follow the discussion from about page 20 in the "New 168 pics" thread. The prototype of this Type 825 CIWS system clearly used the G.E. EX-83 gun mount which was also used by Goalkeeper. The same mount was also used in two French systems which were not adopted by the Marine Nationale - the SATAN and SAMOS. There was even a defunct British system called Sea Dragon which used this very same turret.
SATAN was the EX-83 directed by a Castor IIJ K-band radar and the SAMOS had a SAGEM Volcan E.O. director on mount. Both were successfully trialed at Landes around 1987 shooting two Rushton seaskimming targets off their tow. They were also displayed at the le Bourget Navale exhibition around that time. However, the French then decided not to procure the system and stuck with Sadral instead.
One of the SAMOS prototypes appeared to have been transferred to the PRC. The SAGEM Volcan was seen mounted on the Type 825 prototype along with a tracking radar with a Cassegrain antenna. The radar looks like the LR-66 displayed at Zhuhai (which was described as a J-band radar for CIWS applications). The Volcan mounting itself is not stabilized, instead it uses an internally stabilized mirror for its FLIR and laser rangefinder - hence its unique shape. In the production version, this was replaced by a ball shaped E.O. turret with a stabilized mounting.
In contrast, Goalkeeper had, on-mount, the Signaal (now Thales) Flycatcher I/K band tracking radar and an I-band search radar and no FLIR. Flycatcher used patented dual frequency tracking to allow rapid target acquisition while avoiding multi-path when tracking sea skimmers. The LR-66 uses J-band with multi-frequency processing to reject multipath - a technique transferred with the Italian RTN-20X (ie. Type 347G) used in the last generation CIWS based on DARDO. Goalkeeper it is not ...
The production version of Type 825 showed significant differences from the prototype. See discussion in "New 168 pics". Photos of a land-based variant of the turret suggested no deck penetration (ie. alternate magazine arrangement to the EX-83 with the drum held vertically below the mount).
Got quite well acquainted with these ladies, "Systeme Autonome Tout temps d'Auto-defense Naval" (SATAN) and "Viseur Optronique Leger pour Conduite d'Arme Navale" (Volcan). Would recognize them even if they went around to the other side of the world ... and changed into a "qi-pao".
SAMOS was in competition with SATAN. If one had failed, the other would have been adopted. As mentioned in a previous post, both hit Rushton towed sea skimming targets at firing trials made public in 1987. SATAN used a Castor IIJ fire control director but that did not make a significant difference vs. SAMOS in firing trials against towed targets .
Yet the French adopted neither one. Supposedly, the inability to deal with maneurvring targets was cited as one of the reasons. Cost may also have been a major factor. Sadral using the Mistral missiles was also successfully trialed against Exocet at Landes. It was thought to be better able to deal with maneuvring targets. So, there really wasn't a "big hole" in French ASMD capabilities. (Incidentally, SAMOS had 4 Mistral fitted to the turret to supplement the gun.)
As for closed-loop tracking, not all CIWS used it. Sea Guard is a prime example. Whether it affected performance, particularly against more challenging targets is unclear.
The Dutch persisted with Goalkeeper, which performed well against stream targets and supersonic sea skimmers in a US trial off California. Newer tracking techniques were becoming available and the latest Phalanx Block 1B have successfully engaged supersonic sea skimmers doing high G terminal maneuvres. And yes, both use closed-loop spotting.
source&courtesy: Jane's Naval Weapon Systems 1988-1989.
Courtesy 7seas, snake of CDF
ust because someone first called it the "Chinese Goalkeeper" doesn't make it based on that Dutch system. All the indications are that this system was based on the French SAMOS.
Follow the discussion from about page 20 in the "New 168 pics" thread. The prototype of this Type 825 CIWS system clearly used the G.E. EX-83 gun mount which was also used by Goalkeeper. The same mount was also used in two French systems which were not adopted by the Marine Nationale - the SATAN and SAMOS. There was even a defunct British system called Sea Dragon which used this very same turret.
SATAN was the EX-83 directed by a Castor IIJ K-band radar and the SAMOS had a SAGEM Volcan E.O. director on mount. Both were successfully trialed at Landes around 1987 shooting two Rushton seaskimming targets off their tow. They were also displayed at the le Bourget Navale exhibition around that time. However, the French then decided not to procure the system and stuck with Sadral instead.
One of the SAMOS prototypes appeared to have been transferred to the PRC. The SAGEM Volcan was seen mounted on the Type 825 prototype along with a tracking radar with a Cassegrain antenna. The radar looks like the LR-66 displayed at Zhuhai (which was described as a J-band radar for CIWS applications). The Volcan mounting itself is not stabilized, instead it uses an internally stabilized mirror for its FLIR and laser rangefinder - hence its unique shape. In the production version, this was replaced by a ball shaped E.O. turret with a stabilized mounting.
In contrast, Goalkeeper had, on-mount, the Signaal (now Thales) Flycatcher I/K band tracking radar and an I-band search radar and no FLIR. Flycatcher used patented dual frequency tracking to allow rapid target acquisition while avoiding multi-path when tracking sea skimmers. The LR-66 uses J-band with multi-frequency processing to reject multipath - a technique transferred with the Italian RTN-20X (ie. Type 347G) used in the last generation CIWS based on DARDO. Goalkeeper it is not ...
The production version of Type 825 showed significant differences from the prototype. See discussion in "New 168 pics". Photos of a land-based variant of the turret suggested no deck penetration (ie. alternate magazine arrangement to the EX-83 with the drum held vertically below the mount).
Got quite well acquainted with these ladies, "Systeme Autonome Tout temps d'Auto-defense Naval" (SATAN) and "Viseur Optronique Leger pour Conduite d'Arme Navale" (Volcan). Would recognize them even if they went around to the other side of the world ... and changed into a "qi-pao".
SAMOS was in competition with SATAN. If one had failed, the other would have been adopted. As mentioned in a previous post, both hit Rushton towed sea skimming targets at firing trials made public in 1987. SATAN used a Castor IIJ fire control director but that did not make a significant difference vs. SAMOS in firing trials against towed targets .
Yet the French adopted neither one. Supposedly, the inability to deal with maneurvring targets was cited as one of the reasons. Cost may also have been a major factor. Sadral using the Mistral missiles was also successfully trialed against Exocet at Landes. It was thought to be better able to deal with maneuvring targets. So, there really wasn't a "big hole" in French ASMD capabilities. (Incidentally, SAMOS had 4 Mistral fitted to the turret to supplement the gun.)
As for closed-loop tracking, not all CIWS used it. Sea Guard is a prime example. Whether it affected performance, particularly against more challenging targets is unclear.
The Dutch persisted with Goalkeeper, which performed well against stream targets and supersonic sea skimmers in a US trial off California. Newer tracking techniques were becoming available and the latest Phalanx Block 1B have successfully engaged supersonic sea skimmers doing high G terminal maneuvres. And yes, both use closed-loop spotting.
[此贴子已经被作者于2003-10-17 8:37:21编辑过]
source&courtesy: Jane's Naval Weapon Systems 1988-1989.
Courtesy 7seas, snake of CDF
ust because someone first called it the "Chinese Goalkeeper" doesn't make it based on that Dutch system. All the indications are that this system was based on the French SAMOS.
Follow the discussion from about page 20 in the "New 168 pics" thread. The prototype of this Type 825 CIWS system clearly used the G.E. EX-83 gun mount which was also used by Goalkeeper. The same mount was also used in two French systems which were not adopted by the Marine Nationale - the SATAN and SAMOS. There was even a defunct British system called Sea Dragon which used this very same turret.
SATAN was the EX-83 directed by a Castor IIJ K-band radar and the SAMOS had a SAGEM Volcan E.O. director on mount. Both were successfully trialed at Landes around 1987 shooting two Rushton seaskimming targets off their tow. They were also displayed at the le Bourget Navale exhibition around that time. However, the French then decided not to procure the system and stuck with Sadral instead.
One of the SAMOS prototypes appeared to have been transferred to the PRC. The SAGEM Volcan was seen mounted on the Type 825 prototype along with a tracking radar with a Cassegrain antenna. The radar looks like the LR-66 displayed at Zhuhai (which was described as a J-band radar for CIWS applications). The Volcan mounting itself is not stabilized, instead it uses an internally stabilized mirror for its FLIR and laser rangefinder - hence its unique shape. In the production version, this was replaced by a ball shaped E.O. turret with a stabilized mounting.
In contrast, Goalkeeper had, on-mount, the Signaal (now Thales) Flycatcher I/K band tracking radar and an I-band search radar and no FLIR. Flycatcher used patented dual frequency tracking to allow rapid target acquisition while avoiding multi-path when tracking sea skimmers. The LR-66 uses J-band with multi-frequency processing to reject multipath - a technique transferred with the Italian RTN-20X (ie. Type 347G) used in the last generation CIWS based on DARDO. Goalkeeper it is not ...
The production version of Type 825 showed significant differences from the prototype. See discussion in "New 168 pics". Photos of a land-based variant of the turret suggested no deck penetration (ie. alternate magazine arrangement to the EX-83 with the drum held vertically below the mount).
Got quite well acquainted with these ladies, "Systeme Autonome Tout temps d'Auto-defense Naval" (SATAN) and "Viseur Optronique Leger pour Conduite d'Arme Navale" (Volcan). Would recognize them even if they went around to the other side of the world ... and changed into a "qi-pao".
SAMOS was in competition with SATAN. If one had failed, the other would have been adopted. As mentioned in a previous post, both hit Rushton towed sea skimming targets at firing trials made public in 1987. SATAN used a Castor IIJ fire control director but that did not make a significant difference vs. SAMOS in firing trials against towed targets .
Yet the French adopted neither one. Supposedly, the inability to deal with maneurvring targets was cited as one of the reasons. Cost may also have been a major factor. Sadral using the Mistral missiles was also successfully trialed against Exocet at Landes. It was thought to be better able to deal with maneuvring targets. So, there really wasn't a "big hole" in French ASMD capabilities. (Incidentally, SAMOS had 4 Mistral fitted to the turret to supplement the gun.)
As for closed-loop tracking, not all CIWS used it. Sea Guard is a prime example. Whether it affected performance, particularly against more challenging targets is unclear.
The Dutch persisted with Goalkeeper, which performed well against stream targets and supersonic sea skimmers in a US trial off California. Newer tracking techniques were becoming available and the latest Phalanx Block 1B have successfully engaged supersonic sea skimmers doing high G terminal maneuvres. And yes, both use closed-loop spotting.
[此贴子已经被作者于2003-10-17 8:37:21编辑过]
French Samos system source&courtesy: Jane's Naval Weapon Systems 1988-1989.
Courtesy 7seas, snake of CDF
ust because someone first called it the "Chinese Goalkeeper" doesn't make it based on that Dutch system. All the indications are that this system was based on the French SAMOS.
Follow the discussion from about page 20 in the "New 168 pics" thread. The prototype of this Type 825 CIWS system clearly used the G.E. EX-83 gun mount which was also used by Goalkeeper. The same mount was also used in two French systems which were not adopted by the Marine Nationale - the SATAN and SAMOS. There was even a defunct British system called Sea Dragon which used this very same turret.
SATAN was the EX-83 directed by a Castor IIJ K-band radar and the SAMOS had a SAGEM Volcan E.O. director on mount. Both were successfully trialed at Landes around 1987 shooting two Rushton seaskimming targets off their tow. They were also displayed at the le Bourget Navale exhibition around that time. However, the French then decided not to procure the system and stuck with Sadral instead.
One of the SAMOS prototypes appeared to have been transferred to the PRC. The SAGEM Volcan was seen mounted on the Type 825 prototype along with a tracking radar with a Cassegrain antenna. The radar looks like the LR-66 displayed at Zhuhai (which was described as a J-band radar for CIWS applications). The Volcan mounting itself is not stabilized, instead it uses an internally stabilized mirror for its FLIR and laser rangefinder - hence its unique shape. In the production version, this was replaced by a ball shaped E.O. turret with a stabilized mounting.
In contrast, Goalkeeper had, on-mount, the Signaal (now Thales) Flycatcher I/K band tracking radar and an I-band search radar and no FLIR. Flycatcher used patented dual frequency tracking to allow rapid target acquisition while avoiding multi-path when tracking sea skimmers. The LR-66 uses J-band with multi-frequency processing to reject multipath - a technique transferred with the Italian RTN-20X (ie. Type 347G) used in the last generation CIWS based on DARDO. Goalkeeper it is not ...
The production version of Type 825 showed significant differences from the prototype. See discussion in "New 168 pics". Photos of a land-based variant of the turret suggested no deck penetration (ie. alternate magazine arrangement to the EX-83 with the drum held vertically below the mount).
Got quite well acquainted with these ladies, "Systeme Autonome Tout temps d'Auto-defense Naval" (SATAN) and "Viseur Optronique Leger pour Conduite d'Arme Navale" (Volcan). Would recognize them even if they went around to the other side of the world ... and changed into a "qi-pao".
SAMOS was in competition with SATAN. If one had failed, the other would have been adopted. As mentioned in a previous post, both hit Rushton towed sea skimming targets at firing trials made public in 1987. SATAN used a Castor IIJ fire control director but that did not make a significant difference vs. SAMOS in firing trials against towed targets .
Yet the French adopted neither one. Supposedly, the inability to deal with maneurvring targets was cited as one of the reasons. Cost may also have been a major factor. Sadral using the Mistral missiles was also successfully trialed against Exocet at Landes. It was thought to be better able to deal with maneuvring targets. So, there really wasn't a "big hole" in French ASMD capabilities. (Incidentally, SAMOS had 4 Mistral fitted to the turret to supplement the gun.)
As for closed-loop tracking, not all CIWS used it. Sea Guard is a prime example. Whether it affected performance, particularly against more challenging targets is unclear.
The Dutch persisted with Goalkeeper, which performed well against stream targets and supersonic sea skimmers in a US trial off California. Newer tracking techniques were becoming available and the latest Phalanx Block 1B have successfully engaged supersonic sea skimmers doing high G terminal maneuvres. And yes, both use closed-loop spotting.
[此贴子已经被作者于2003-10-17 8:37:21编辑过]