(外网搬运)湾湾哭求干爹卖潜艇,我都等了14年了,再不 ...

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/28 23:29:12


    In 2001, President George W. Bush's administration released the largest arms package to Taiwan since the closing of US military bases on the island in 1979. The deal included four Kidd-class destroyers, 12 P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and eight diesel-electric submarines.
    2001年,小布什总统发布了自1979年驻台美军基地关闭以来最大的对台军售项目,这宗交易包括4艘基德级驱逐舰、12架P-3C猎户座反潜巡逻机,以及8艘柴电潜艇。
    Since then, the package has been completed except for the submarine offer. The many sticking points include the fact the US has not built diesel-electric attack submarines since the last Barbel-class was finished in 1959. But that has not stopped Taiwan's Navy from pushing forward on an official release via the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) office before beginning an indigenous build program.
    到目前为止,除了潜艇之外的其他交易已经全部完成,这里面有一个很重要的原因就是美国自1959年以来已经不再生产柴电动力潜艇,但即便如此,台湾海军仍然希望从美国对外军售办公室(FMS)获得潜艇出口合同,而非立足本土建造。
Taiwan’s frustrations with the US FMS process it began 14 years ago are growing, leading it to pursue an indigenous construction effort that it hopes will  provide some tactical and strategic leverage against China’s rapidly growing naval modernization efforts.
    14年来,台湾对军售合同的进展愈发感到挫折,促使它努力推动本土建造计划,以便从战略和战术上制衡快速现代化的中华人民共和国海军。
    On Dec. 1, the Washington-based Project 2049 Institute sponsored a conference on the topic with Taiwan's Rear Adm. David T.W. Yang presenting the keynote speech. The conference, “A Deep Dive: Taiwan’s Future Submarine Program,” included commentary by Mark Stokes, executive director of the Project 2049 Institute.
    12月1日,华盛顿的2049项目研究会围绕该议题发起了一个研讨会,并邀请台湾海军杨少将作了主旨演讲。研讨会的题目是“深潜:台湾未来潜艇项目”,由2049项目研究会执行主管马克•斯托克斯主持。
    Stokes said the US FMS effort was frozen in 2007 due to a number of factors: political considerations and U.S.-China relations; domestic debates in Taiwan over pursuing an FMS program or an indigenous build; perceived cost effectiveness in the US of building only eight subs; US operational considerations regarding waterspace management as more countries in Asia procure submarines; and past US Navy institutional concerns over fears in the nuclear submarine community that cheaper diesel electric subs might be forced upon them during future budget cuts.
    斯托克斯说美国对外军售办公室的努力在2007年就冻结了,原因包括:美中关系和政治考虑,台湾内部关于外购还是自建的争论,对美国而言只建造8艘潜艇的费效比,对亚洲潜艇扩散的忧虑,美国核潜艇工业团体也担心军方会因国防预算削减转而采购廉价柴电潜艇。
    It should be noted that Stokes served as the Pentagon’s team chief and senior country director for China, Taiwan and Mongolia in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs during the 2001 arms release. He is described by many within the US and Taiwan defense industries as the architect of the original arms package and continues to be a major advocate of Taiwan’s acquisition of submarines.
    值得注意的是,斯托克斯在2001年曾在分管国际安全事务的助理国防部长办公室工作,是五角大楼的一个项目团队主管,并负责中国大陆、台湾和蒙古事务。在美国和台湾军工界,他通常被描述成对台一揽子军售计划的创始人,同时也是台湾外购潜艇项目的主要支持者。
    Yang, who is a military attaché at Taiwan’s de facto embassy, the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office, told the conference that Taiwan has improved its anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities with the procurement of the P-3 aircraft, but additional enhancements are required. “The training programs, however, failed to meet requirements because of limitations of the aging submarines ... and Taiwan’s defensive capabilities are adversely affected.”
    杨是台湾驻美“大使馆”的武官,在研讨会上说P-3飞机改善了台湾的反潜能力,但在很多方面仍有待提高。“由于现役潜艇过于老旧,反潜课目的训练受到了很多限制,影响了台湾的自卫能力”。
    Taiwan's only two combat-operational submarines are Dutch-built Zwaardvis-class subs acquired in the late 1980s. It also has two of the oldest submarines in operation — two Guppy-class submarines acquired in the early 1970s that served at the end of World War II. These submarines are described as training platforms, not operational ones.
    台湾仅有2艘上世纪80年代从荷兰购买的“旗鱼”级潜艇,还有2艘全世界最古老的“鳉鱼”级潜艇,是1970年代从美国引进的淘汰货,实际上是二战末期服役的老式潜艇,只能用于训练而非作战。
Yang said the Guppys should be replaced and the Zwaardvis “urgently” need to be refurbished. He said the FMS program has been “suspended through the ‘interagency review’ phase for over a decade ... [and now] Taiwan has been urging the US to accelerate the FMS process to provide Taiwan with the urgently needed submarines.”
    杨说“鳉鱼”级早该被替换而“旗鱼”级也急需大修,他说军售项目因“跨部门审查”被耽搁了10年,现在,台湾敦促美国加快项目进程,以便为台湾提供急需的潜艇装备。
Yang said Taiwan has created the Indigenous Defense Submarine (IDS) program to fulfill its requirements. IDS will be built locally with some foreign, including American, assistance.
    杨说台湾已经发起了本土建造潜艇项目来满足这一需求,该项目计划采用外国技术(包括美国)支持并在本地完成。
“In consideration of the longstanding security cooperation with the US, acquiring submarines from the US government will remain as the priority option," he said. "Until there is a concrete response from the US, a dual-track ‘FMS-plus-IDS’ policy will be implemented.”
    “考虑到和美国的长期安全合作关系,从美国购买潜艇仍然是一个优先选项”,杨说,“除非从美国得到明确答复,否则“外购-自建”双轨计划一定会推进下去”。
Yang admitted that Taiwan was “in communication” with Japan for a possible deal for Soryu-class submarines. Japan’s export defense restrictions have been eased, and Japan and Australia are currently working on a joint submarine program.
    杨承认台湾正就引进“苍龙”级潜艇与日本接触,日本的武器出口刚刚解禁,并且日本正在与澳大利亚共同推进一个联合潜艇项目。
Bob Nugent of AMI International, a Bremerton, Washington–based naval market analysis and advisory firm, said he could “envision a scenario where there is an outright sale to Taiwan of Japanese submarines.” The current price is around $500 million a hull for the Soryu, and that includes airindependent propulsion — significantly less than the US offer estimated at $800 million for just the design stage.
    来自AMI海军武器市场分析与咨询公司的鲍勃•纽金特表示他“可以想象对台湾而言购买日本潜艇是一个十分划算的交易”。现在1艘“苍龙”级潜艇的价格是5亿美元,这其中还包括了AIP系统,而如果从美国购买,仅仅是设计阶段就可能要花掉8亿美元。
    China and Japan are bickering over control of the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, which Japan controls and China claims as its territory. Additional friction was created in 2013 when China announced an air defense identification zone in the East China Sea, which included the airspace over the Senkakus. Increased Chinese fighter and surveillance flights into Japanese air space in recent years have also rattled Tokyo.
    中国和日本正在为东海的钓鱼岛归属问题争吵不休,该岛现在处于日本控制之下,而中国声称这是她的领土。2013年中国宣布建立东海防空识别区并把钓鱼岛也包括在内后,双方摩擦明显增加,日益增多的中国战斗机和侦察机进入日本领空让东京十分不安。

    来源:防务新闻网站
   “defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/submarines/2015/12/05/taiwan-turning-screws-washingtons-sub-deal/76676188/”
    小弟从今天开始练习翻译外网防务新闻,也是为了坚持学英文,请大家监督指正。

    In 2001, President George W. Bush's administration released the largest arms package to Taiwan since the closing of US military bases on the island in 1979. The deal included four Kidd-class destroyers, 12 P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and eight diesel-electric submarines.
    2001年,小布什总统发布了自1979年驻台美军基地关闭以来最大的对台军售项目,这宗交易包括4艘基德级驱逐舰、12架P-3C猎户座反潜巡逻机,以及8艘柴电潜艇。
    Since then, the package has been completed except for the submarine offer. The many sticking points include the fact the US has not built diesel-electric attack submarines since the last Barbel-class was finished in 1959. But that has not stopped Taiwan's Navy from pushing forward on an official release via the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) office before beginning an indigenous build program.
    到目前为止,除了潜艇之外的其他交易已经全部完成,这里面有一个很重要的原因就是美国自1959年以来已经不再生产柴电动力潜艇,但即便如此,台湾海军仍然希望从美国对外军售办公室(FMS)获得潜艇出口合同,而非立足本土建造。
Taiwan’s frustrations with the US FMS process it began 14 years ago are growing, leading it to pursue an indigenous construction effort that it hopes will  provide some tactical and strategic leverage against China’s rapidly growing naval modernization efforts.
    14年来,台湾对军售合同的进展愈发感到挫折,促使它努力推动本土建造计划,以便从战略和战术上制衡快速现代化的中华人民共和国海军。
    On Dec. 1, the Washington-based Project 2049 Institute sponsored a conference on the topic with Taiwan's Rear Adm. David T.W. Yang presenting the keynote speech. The conference, “A Deep Dive: Taiwan’s Future Submarine Program,” included commentary by Mark Stokes, executive director of the Project 2049 Institute.
    12月1日,华盛顿的2049项目研究会围绕该议题发起了一个研讨会,并邀请台湾海军杨少将作了主旨演讲。研讨会的题目是“深潜:台湾未来潜艇项目”,由2049项目研究会执行主管马克•斯托克斯主持。
    Stokes said the US FMS effort was frozen in 2007 due to a number of factors: political considerations and U.S.-China relations; domestic debates in Taiwan over pursuing an FMS program or an indigenous build; perceived cost effectiveness in the US of building only eight subs; US operational considerations regarding waterspace management as more countries in Asia procure submarines; and past US Navy institutional concerns over fears in the nuclear submarine community that cheaper diesel electric subs might be forced upon them during future budget cuts.
    斯托克斯说美国对外军售办公室的努力在2007年就冻结了,原因包括:美中关系和政治考虑,台湾内部关于外购还是自建的争论,对美国而言只建造8艘潜艇的费效比,对亚洲潜艇扩散的忧虑,美国核潜艇工业团体也担心军方会因国防预算削减转而采购廉价柴电潜艇。
    It should be noted that Stokes served as the Pentagon’s team chief and senior country director for China, Taiwan and Mongolia in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs during the 2001 arms release. He is described by many within the US and Taiwan defense industries as the architect of the original arms package and continues to be a major advocate of Taiwan’s acquisition of submarines.
    值得注意的是,斯托克斯在2001年曾在分管国际安全事务的助理国防部长办公室工作,是五角大楼的一个项目团队主管,并负责中国大陆、台湾和蒙古事务。在美国和台湾军工界,他通常被描述成对台一揽子军售计划的创始人,同时也是台湾外购潜艇项目的主要支持者。
    Yang, who is a military attaché at Taiwan’s de facto embassy, the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office, told the conference that Taiwan has improved its anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities with the procurement of the P-3 aircraft, but additional enhancements are required. “The training programs, however, failed to meet requirements because of limitations of the aging submarines ... and Taiwan’s defensive capabilities are adversely affected.”
    杨是台湾驻美“大使馆”的武官,在研讨会上说P-3飞机改善了台湾的反潜能力,但在很多方面仍有待提高。“由于现役潜艇过于老旧,反潜课目的训练受到了很多限制,影响了台湾的自卫能力”。
    Taiwan's only two combat-operational submarines are Dutch-built Zwaardvis-class subs acquired in the late 1980s. It also has two of the oldest submarines in operation — two Guppy-class submarines acquired in the early 1970s that served at the end of World War II. These submarines are described as training platforms, not operational ones.
    台湾仅有2艘上世纪80年代从荷兰购买的“旗鱼”级潜艇,还有2艘全世界最古老的“鳉鱼”级潜艇,是1970年代从美国引进的淘汰货,实际上是二战末期服役的老式潜艇,只能用于训练而非作战。
Yang said the Guppys should be replaced and the Zwaardvis “urgently” need to be refurbished. He said the FMS program has been “suspended through the ‘interagency review’ phase for over a decade ... [and now] Taiwan has been urging the US to accelerate the FMS process to provide Taiwan with the urgently needed submarines.”
    杨说“鳉鱼”级早该被替换而“旗鱼”级也急需大修,他说军售项目因“跨部门审查”被耽搁了10年,现在,台湾敦促美国加快项目进程,以便为台湾提供急需的潜艇装备。
Yang said Taiwan has created the Indigenous Defense Submarine (IDS) program to fulfill its requirements. IDS will be built locally with some foreign, including American, assistance.
    杨说台湾已经发起了本土建造潜艇项目来满足这一需求,该项目计划采用外国技术(包括美国)支持并在本地完成。
“In consideration of the longstanding security cooperation with the US, acquiring submarines from the US government will remain as the priority option," he said. "Until there is a concrete response from the US, a dual-track ‘FMS-plus-IDS’ policy will be implemented.”
    “考虑到和美国的长期安全合作关系,从美国购买潜艇仍然是一个优先选项”,杨说,“除非从美国得到明确答复,否则“外购-自建”双轨计划一定会推进下去”。
Yang admitted that Taiwan was “in communication” with Japan for a possible deal for Soryu-class submarines. Japan’s export defense restrictions have been eased, and Japan and Australia are currently working on a joint submarine program.
    杨承认台湾正就引进“苍龙”级潜艇与日本接触,日本的武器出口刚刚解禁,并且日本正在与澳大利亚共同推进一个联合潜艇项目。
Bob Nugent of AMI International, a Bremerton, Washington–based naval market analysis and advisory firm, said he could “envision a scenario where there is an outright sale to Taiwan of Japanese submarines.” The current price is around $500 million a hull for the Soryu, and that includes airindependent propulsion — significantly less than the US offer estimated at $800 million for just the design stage.
    来自AMI海军武器市场分析与咨询公司的鲍勃•纽金特表示他“可以想象对台湾而言购买日本潜艇是一个十分划算的交易”。现在1艘“苍龙”级潜艇的价格是5亿美元,这其中还包括了AIP系统,而如果从美国购买,仅仅是设计阶段就可能要花掉8亿美元。
    China and Japan are bickering over control of the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, which Japan controls and China claims as its territory. Additional friction was created in 2013 when China announced an air defense identification zone in the East China Sea, which included the airspace over the Senkakus. Increased Chinese fighter and surveillance flights into Japanese air space in recent years have also rattled Tokyo.
    中国和日本正在为东海的钓鱼岛归属问题争吵不休,该岛现在处于日本控制之下,而中国声称这是她的领土。2013年中国宣布建立东海防空识别区并把钓鱼岛也包括在内后,双方摩擦明显增加,日益增多的中国战斗机和侦察机进入日本领空让东京十分不安。

    来源:防务新闻网站
   “defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/submarines/2015/12/05/taiwan-turning-screws-washingtons-sub-deal/76676188/”
    小弟从今天开始练习翻译外网防务新闻,也是为了坚持学英文,请大家监督指正。
他爹只有核的,咋整
评论没了啊
除了美国其他国家都不敢卖潜艇给台湾,法国是例子
日本現在可以軍備出口... 真的有點擔心他們會半賣半送潜艇給台灣....
除了美国其他国家都不敢卖潜艇给台湾,法国是例子
现在法国也不会卖拉,至于鬼子要卖ww潜艇就更需要勇气了
倭豚要是敢卖,tg就让丰田本田全部滚出中国吧,再禁止中国游客赴日旅游购物。
敢買蒼龍 就擊沉它們 一艘不留!
潛艇戰一般不引發戰爭 最多口水仗 敗者自已呑苦水而已 看吧!
等武统了,正好拿过来研究一下。
happyhappyguy 发表于 2015-12-7 21:49
日本現在可以軍備出口... 真的有點擔心他們會半賣半送潜艇給台灣....
鬼子敢卖,兔子就敢击沉它你信不信?现在全世界也就美国敢摸兔子的台湾屁股
happyhappyguy 发表于 2015-12-7 21:49
日本現在可以軍備出口... 真的有點擔心他們會半賣半送潜艇給台灣....

鬼子敢卖潜艇给秃子 兔子会制裁相关日企直到破产为止 同时将中日关系降低到代办级
尼姑的脸和尚摸得,啊Q可是摸不得的。
退一步说 苍龙级太大 其实并不适合台湾 真正合适的是214这种
隼鹰 发表于 2015-12-7 22:13
退一步说 苍龙级太大 其实并不适合台湾 真正合适的是214这种
有道理,但在浅水的台湾海峡虽然不适合,在南海攻击交通线还是可以的吧
除了美国其他国家都不敢卖潜艇给台湾,法国是例子
甚至可以说除了美国其他国家都不敢卖有点水平的武器给弯弯了,日本,呵呵,前面卖了,后面开到中国,怕不怕?
退伍将军 发表于 2015-12-7 21:43
除了美国其他国家都不敢卖潜艇给台湾,法国是例子

(看错内容就回帖,删除)
呵呵,事实上的大使馆(de facto embassy),美媒又在分裂中国。
hxgs 发表于 2015-12-7 22:31
呵呵,事实上的大使馆(de facto embassy),美媒又在分裂中国。
所以我加了引号,呵呵
日益增多的中国战斗机和侦察机进入日本领空

到这里防空识别区又变成领空了
Kavindish 发表于 2015-12-7 22:39
到这里防空识别区又变成领空了
这里的air space直译就是领空,外媒就喜欢耍这些小把戏
美國政府在想 能不能讓台灣回歸 然後放長線釣大魚
日本現在可以軍備出口... 真的有點擔心他們會半賣半送潜艇給台灣....
当年荷兰就干过一次后果很严重,那还是在中国国力不强的时候,现在日本敢再来一次肯定会比荷兰更惨。潜艇不是战斗机也不是护卫舰,对中国来讲这是红线,敢售台潜艇中国肯定掀桌子。
草原烈火 发表于 2015-12-7 23:01
当年荷兰就干过一次后果很严重,那还是在中国国力不强的时候,现在日本敢再来一次肯定会比荷兰更惨。潜艇 ...
据我了解当时是从大使级降为代办级,应该不仅仅是外交关系降级了吧,是不是飞利浦啥的都中枪了?
除了美国其他国家都不敢卖潜艇给台湾,法国是例子
美国也不敢,要敢早把大青花鱼升级卖过去了。水面舰舰和潜艇不一样,基德和佩里中国都能容忍,售台潜艇中国非掀桌子不可,1980年荷兰的教训摆在那儿。
据我了解当时是从大使级降为代办级,应该不仅仅是外交关系降级了吧,是不是飞利浦啥的都中枪了?
不光外交降级,一大堆经贸商贸协议全终止了。那次荷兰损失大了。以现在中国的国力谁敢售台潜艇肯定吃不了兜着走
旗帜鲜明的支持倭狗卖潜艇给4V!!想吃冰就下雹子是件很美好的事!
美国也不敢,要敢早把大青花鱼升级卖过去了。水面舰舰和潜艇不一样,基德和佩里中国都能容忍,售台潜艇中 ...
大...大青花鱼?那货现在还能开吗...这么说也可以把U505拾掇拾掇卖了...
美国也不敢,要敢早把大青花鱼升级卖过去了。水面舰舰和潜艇不一样,基德和佩里中国都能容忍,售台潜艇中 ...
而且卖给台湾的好像是把鱼雷发射口堵了
上次荷兰卖潜艇给台湾,中国直接把与荷兰外交关系从大使级降为代办级。。

小鬼子要是敢卖潜艇的话,估计直接断绝外交关系。。

然后海军陆战队去占领金门。。
日本偷偷卖设计卖技术,台北放炮自己造,这把柄难抓。
大...大青花鱼?那货现在还能开吗...这么说也可以把U505拾掇拾掇卖了...
鲤鱼都能用那么久换鲨鱼估计问题不大
借日本十个胆子也不敢卖台湾潜艇。
草原烈火 发表于 2015-12-7 23:20
不光外交降级,一大堆经贸商贸协议全终止了。那次荷兰损失大了。以现在中国的国力谁敢售台潜艇肯定吃不了 ...
感谢你的解答!

我搜到了多年前超大的关于这个事件的讨论帖子,很有意思。

http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mo ... &fromuid=128047

同时还顺带有法国卖拉斐特、幻影的讨论帖
http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1069728-1-1.html
No9527 发表于 2015-12-8 00:03
鲤鱼都能用那么久换鲨鱼估计问题不大
这是啥游戏?请问。。
一路西西哈哈 发表于 2015-12-7 21:49
现在法国也不会卖拉,至于鬼子要卖ww潜艇就更需要勇气了
湾湾还是来买土共的吧
鲤鱼都能用那么久换鲨鱼估计问题不大
噫,萝莉我的嫁
这是啥游戏?请问。。
这手机游戏是"战舰少女"
syskey1 发表于 2015-12-7 23:05
据我了解当时是从大使级降为代办级,应该不仅仅是外交关系降级了吧,是不是飞利浦啥的都中枪了?
相当于没有建交,在改开之前相当长一段时间内,中国和荷兰、英国、德国等欧洲国家其实就是代办关系

受影响的肯定不仅仅是外交关系,涉及到两国之间的经贸往来基本可以说是中断了
豕突狼奔 发表于 2015-12-7 23:46
日本偷偷卖设计卖技术,台北放炮自己造,这把柄难抓。
苍龙那个耐压壳子湾湾都造不出来的。。。

原子汉 发表于 2015-12-7 23:26
大...大青花鱼?那货现在还能开吗...这么说也可以把U505拾掇拾掇卖了...

不好意思搞错了,是MD最后一级常规潜艇长颌须鱼级,记成大青花鱼了,MD当时是想从汉斯那买209转手卖WW,可是汉斯不傻,没折了就想就想把这货的图纸翻出来改改造新艇卖WW,这事WW当时美了好长时间后来没下文了。
原子汉 发表于 2015-12-7 23:26
大...大青花鱼?那货现在还能开吗...这么说也可以把U505拾掇拾掇卖了...

不好意思搞错了,是MD最后一级常规潜艇长颌须鱼级,记成大青花鱼了,MD当时是想从汉斯那买209转手卖WW,可是汉斯不傻,没折了就想就想把这货的图纸翻出来改改造新艇卖WW,这事WW当时美了好长时间后来没下文了。