援越抗美我们击落1707架美军飞机的数字有注水吗?

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/05/01 13:24:08
按照我们的说法:

自1965年8月1日至1968年3月,前后分5批入越轮战的中国高炮部队,连同配属援建工程的高炮部队总计15余万人,共对敌作战2153次,击落美机1707架、击伤1608架,俘虏美军飞行员42名,有力地支援了越南人民的抗美救国斗争。

查找霉菌的说法:其空军在越战一共损失飞机2,251架。其中1,737架被对方击落,514架是其他原因。海军一共损失859架,其中530架被击落,329架其他原因。海军陆战队损失193架固定翼+279架直升机飞机。美国陆军302架固定翼(其中297架是BIRD DOG单翼螺旋桨飞机)+5086架直升机。这是全部越南战争的损失。

算下来一大半固定翼飞机是TG打下来的?[:a6:] 这个有没注水啊?俘虏飞行员的比例而且非常低(TG在后方,直升机多半活动在战斗前沿应该大多是越共击落的吧,有些可能是霉菌自己炸毁的)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air ... r#cite_note-roush-4


the U.S. Air Force flew 5.25 million sorties over South Vietnam, North Vietnam, northern and southern Laos, and Cambodia, losing 2,251 aircraft: 1,737 to hostile action, and 514 to operational causes. 110 of the losses were helicopters and the rest fixed-wing

United States Navy: Twenty-one aircraft carriers conducted 86 war cruises and operated 9,178 total days on the line in the Gulf of Tonkin. 530 aircraft were lost in combat and 329 more to operational causes. Resulting in the deaths of 377 naval aviators, with 64 airmen reported missing and 179 taken prisoner-of-war.

U.S. Marine Corps aircraft lost in combat included 193 fixed-wing and 270 rotary wing aircraft.

United States Army[edit] USA fixed-wingOV-1A Mohawk – 3 lost
OV-1B Mohawk – 2 lost
0–1 Bird Dog – 297 lost
[edit] USA rotary-wing5,086 [5]

1 205 was destroyed (Air America)
270 AH-1G were destroyed
1 BELL was destroyed
14 CH-21C were destroyed
2 CH-34 were destroyed
1 CH-37B was destroyed
1 CH-37C was destroyed
83 CH-47A were destroyed
20 CH-47B were destroyed
29 CH-47C were destroyed
9 CH-54A were destroyed
3 H-13D were destroyed
2 H-37A were destroyed
147 OH-13S were destroyed
93 OH-23G were destroyed
45 OH-58A were destroyed
842 OH-6A were destroyed
60 UH-1 were destroyed
1 UH-1A was destroyed
357 UH-1B were destroyed
365 UH-1C were destroyed
886 UH-1D were destroyed
90 UH-1E were destroyed
18 UH-1F were destroyed
1313 UH-1H were destroyed
176 UH-34D were destroyed按照我们的说法:

自1965年8月1日至1968年3月,前后分5批入越轮战的中国高炮部队,连同配属援建工程的高炮部队总计15余万人,共对敌作战2153次,击落美机1707架、击伤1608架,俘虏美军飞行员42名,有力地支援了越南人民的抗美救国斗争。

查找霉菌的说法:其空军在越战一共损失飞机2,251架。其中1,737架被对方击落,514架是其他原因。海军一共损失859架,其中530架被击落,329架其他原因。海军陆战队损失193架固定翼+279架直升机飞机。美国陆军302架固定翼(其中297架是BIRD DOG单翼螺旋桨飞机)+5086架直升机。这是全部越南战争的损失。

算下来一大半固定翼飞机是TG打下来的?[:a6:] 这个有没注水啊?俘虏飞行员的比例而且非常低(TG在后方,直升机多半活动在战斗前沿应该大多是越共击落的吧,有些可能是霉菌自己炸毁的)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air ... r#cite_note-roush-4


the U.S. Air Force flew 5.25 million sorties over South Vietnam, North Vietnam, northern and southern Laos, and Cambodia, losing 2,251 aircraft: 1,737 to hostile action, and 514 to operational causes. 110 of the losses were helicopters and the rest fixed-wing

United States Navy: Twenty-one aircraft carriers conducted 86 war cruises and operated 9,178 total days on the line in the Gulf of Tonkin. 530 aircraft were lost in combat and 329 more to operational causes. Resulting in the deaths of 377 naval aviators, with 64 airmen reported missing and 179 taken prisoner-of-war.

U.S. Marine Corps aircraft lost in combat included 193 fixed-wing and 270 rotary wing aircraft.

United States Army[edit] USA fixed-wingOV-1A Mohawk – 3 lost
OV-1B Mohawk – 2 lost
0–1 Bird Dog – 297 lost
[edit] USA rotary-wing5,086 [5]

1 205 was destroyed (Air America)
270 AH-1G were destroyed
1 BELL was destroyed
14 CH-21C were destroyed
2 CH-34 were destroyed
1 CH-37B was destroyed
1 CH-37C was destroyed
83 CH-47A were destroyed
20 CH-47B were destroyed
29 CH-47C were destroyed
9 CH-54A were destroyed
3 H-13D were destroyed
2 H-37A were destroyed
147 OH-13S were destroyed
93 OH-23G were destroyed
45 OH-58A were destroyed
842 OH-6A were destroyed
60 UH-1 were destroyed
1 UH-1A was destroyed
357 UH-1B were destroyed
365 UH-1C were destroyed
886 UH-1D were destroyed
90 UH-1E were destroyed
18 UH-1F were destroyed
1313 UH-1H were destroyed
176 UH-34D were destroyed
没啥水份吧,可能还报少了呢

美国当时自己承认损失8700架各型飞机,算上南越皇协军的损失,整个越战美国/南越一共损失差不多10000架飞机,其中包括5000多架直升机。
数字基本靠谱
中国说的可能还少了呢。
最让我震精的是5000架直升机!我日,这飞起来就是蝗灾啊!那可是在以前的越战,不得不佩服国力!不过照样输的残啊!哈哈!这还是TB没有直接参战,加入TB也参战,不知道会是什么样的结果?
TB参战又是个朝鲜战争,只是美国会输的更惨,但是真的没有必要参战
MD 给 老毛骗进去了……真是伟大的“阳谋”啊
TG陆航要有5000+直升机~~~OMG!!~~~
千里马 发表于 2011-1-23 11:15
我看不见得,美国会输得更快就是
北越后方的防空主要就交给PLA了,“算下来一大半固定翼飞机是TG打下来的?”问这句话的才奇怪,不是TG打的又是谁打的?
回复 9# sbdjs


    太祖要和MD搞好关系,不便直接参战。反正MD打不赢,没必要参战的。
整个越南战争期间的战果有注水。曾有回忆录里提到过,因为越南的省比较小,经常会出现在a省将飞机打中,结果掉到b省的问题,沿途的部队都声称战果是自己的,结果就是每个部队的战果都加上个1。
流氓兔 发表于 2011-1-23 11:37

》》》》前期这么说倒还可以,等苏联大规模援越的时候,那初期三发一架美机,后期上百枚一架美机的萨姆导弹可不是我们放的吧。那阵我们举国防空导弹加起来可能还没越北的多。
貌似还有苏联和朝鲜的防空部队在北越。。。。。。
家里还有当年被打下来的飞机做的小模型。。。
回复 10# 流氓兔


    难道在那边的朝鲜导弹部队是打酱油的么。。。
怪不得1979年中越双方都基本没有出动空军,估计都是对对方的防空力量深有体会了。
中国只管打飞机不管抓飞行员
记得看过一个视频,是越战中美军用百舌鸟反辐射攻击雷达的画面,一直在想那片中作为"敌军"防空部队被百舌鸟炸死的难道是中国军队??纪录片中称这种导弹很好的压制了对方的防空系统。
回复 18# 莫須有


    前期作用很显著,后期就不行了。。
sinoon 发表于 2011-1-23 11:19


    一个军区500+架很知足了
肯定有,就跟朝鲜战争中一样。总的来说,表现是不错的,以那样的装备和当时的条件取得的如此的战绩。
TMD卖命帮他,狗日的猴子居然对我们部分官兵策反。
zc1945 发表于 2011-1-23 14:42
这种白眼狼要记着帐,以后给它咔嚓了
一千七啊……我记忆中某路边文说某年高炮部队给太祖的账单时八百多,不知道是分期付款的,还是总账。
都争战果,数字果然有水份。
俺们的防空部队确实表现不错,很多土办法战绩都很给力
严格说这不叫“注水”。

对空战果统计有误差是很平常的事情,其他国家差个一倍两倍的都有。
击伤数字不好落实,击落数字那可是一架一架残骸数出来的。:D
远东社会主义大家庭都在越南打呢,中国都是高炮,毛子都是萨姆,北越那么小重点范围密度很大,反正视距内轰下来都算成自己高炮打得了。
回复 11# momoranshi


    8万炮兵师出友谊关的历史被你吃了
ldlpcg1983126 发表于 2011-1-23 16:47


    高炮弹的破片和萨姆的破片区别是灰常灰常大的。
莫須有 发表于 2011-1-23 13:58

导弹的电子设备要改进非常难,要花时间, 但人是活的, 对付他的办法就多了.
我们单位的书记以前就雷达兵,雷达设在缅甸好像(或者是简仆寨,我不记得了),雷达开机几秒就关,然后再开,就是为了防百舌鸟
美军机群总是绕道缅甸去炸城南, 他们就在这下面设防,专打美机群和落单的飞机
他侦测打下来一架,立了三等功
第一次知道越南还有这故事 学习了
越战,霉菌梦碎的地方…
我家老老头子说过,那年头对战功的考评那是相当严格的,要是有人虚报战果,那从上到下倒霉的不是一拨两拨人~所以就算有水分,也在误差之内,不可能差太多的!
TG参战也没啥的


当年从54年日内瓦会议,以及华沙大使级谈判,和西方和解的失败,50年代末之后的中国对外政策的转为“激进”,

老猫头在印度支那选择这个战场,现在看来真是有超人的战略勇气,

怎么破局,让你的敌人认识到,把你孤立的危险,大于把你纳入体制内的危险,老猫头确实不一般

破解美国,以及之后苏联,超级大国共治的格局,对于之后中国摆脱孤立,乃至对西方开放都奠定了基础。

79年12月15日中美建交公布,17日十一届三中全会就宣布中国改革开放。。。。

说道这个,想起说毛时代中国闭关锁国,其实是咱们自己就要彻底锁的吗,中国最早56年就提出和美国恢复正常的贸易关系,

谈判多次连个屁的结果都没有,中国长期连联合国的正式成员都不是,西方的巴统组织联合封锁,

作为主导国际贸易的西方主要市场,中国就是被封到外面的。

当年从54年日内瓦会议,以及华沙大使级谈判,和西方和解的失败,50年代末之后的中国对外政策的转为“激进”,

老猫头在印度支那选择这个战场,现在看来真是有超人的战略勇气,

怎么破局,让你的敌人认识到,把你孤立的危险,大于把你纳入体制内的危险,老猫头确实不一般

破解美国,以及之后苏联,超级大国共治的格局,对于之后中国摆脱孤立,乃至对西方开放都奠定了基础。

79年12月15日中美建交公布,17日十一届三中全会就宣布中国改革开放。。。。

说道这个,想起说毛时代中国闭关锁国,其实是咱们自己就要彻底锁的吗,中国最早56年就提出和美国恢复正常的贸易关系,

谈判多次连个屁的结果都没有,中国长期连联合国的正式成员都不是,西方的巴统组织联合封锁,

作为主导国际贸易的西方主要市场,中国就是被封到外面的。
5千架直升飞机主要是越军自己打的。

对两三千架固定翼飞机而言,当然是高炮打落的远比导弹多。导弹主要打B52那类高空水平轰炸机的,而美军的空中对地火力支援和轰炸,在精确制导武器还没普遍使用时,得从中低空进入投弹,正好是高炮的打击范围。