【外文翻译转帖】中国隐形战机 和 美国网友回复

【原文地址】： http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/b ... 25-4fbc-a284-008017
【译文地址】：http://www.ptfcn.com/ptfcn/js/172/
【翻译作者】：nonchalantking
【联名作者】：Nicole

tangoviking wrote:
Could be a view in China that for the resources they now put into developing a costly

stealth jet it has to be able to provide high endurance for the air defense role I.E

long patrol times and larger weapons loadѕ. Because perhaps they do not see the

possibility to dramatically mass produce this type of jet today. Seeing how many they

would need for national (and regional) operations.

Just 200 of these with Mach2+ capability and long endurance, plus a lot of BVR-missiles

onboard, coupled with a sizeable AESA would not be a welcomed opponent for a foreign

airforce that has always seen itself as masters of the airspace domain anywhere in the

world.

The lower cost, short range single-engine FCA will be next...
12/27/2010 6:17 AM CST
Recommend (33)  Report Abuse  Permalink

在天丅朝投入如此多的资源于隐形飞机上之后，丝带必须能保证其在空中防卫方面的持久力，即较长滞

空时间和大载弹量，因为空军目前不太可能大规模量产这种飞机，而他们在国家间（和区域间）的各

类行动又急需此类装备。

仅仅有200架这种航速超2马赫、续航力强、配有大量超视距导弹、有强大的相控阵雷达制导的飞机，

可是不够对手看的哦。人家美帝可是自视为世界航空工业的总瓢把子呢~

往后的将会是廉价，短程、单发的未来轻型战斗机...

tangoviking wrote:
Another one Bill.. small but a slightly more lined-up sideview. Sry no credit.



12/27/2010 6:47 AM CST
Recommend (8)  Report Abuse  Permalink

Bill，这是另一张照片...小了点但是更平行一些的侧面图。不保证可信度~

tangoviking wrote:
Oh and the canopy is down on that photo. Seems to be a row of people standing in the

background too. Test run?

12/27/2010 6:59 AM CST
Recommend (9)  Report Abuse  Permalink

囧，这张照片里降落伞（座舱罩？看不到图，不确定说的是哪一部分）已经放下来了。看来也有许多

围观群众站在后排啊。是试飞？

Marcase wrote:
Nice catch Bill and tangoviking.

It has indeed a very similar shape to the original JAST design, and if it does has a

Lambda-type wing (ie optimized for "turn & burn" maneuvering) it could be seen as a

Chinese PAKFA-type interceptor. Perhaps to provide a long-range land-based CAP umbrella

as the aircraft carrier works up.

Big nose for a big AESA btw.

China usually adopts a block approach in (defense) systems, which means successive

production runs show steady incremental improvements. So I wouldn't be surprised to see

a stealthy "F/A" strike-fighter next and ultimately an "FB" type bomber.

The PLAAF still lacks enough interdiction strike (Su-30) and strategic bomber aircraft

(obsolete Xian H-6/Badger). I expect the Jian-11/Su-27 Flankers production will ramp up

soon, so the next logical step would be to extend the deep strike capability after this

J-20 has proven itself as a good base platform.

But this is all pure pre-morning coffee speculation of course.
12/27/2010 7:01 AM CST
Recommend (12)  Report Abuse  Permalink

Bill、tangoviking，乃们拍的很给力。

丝带看上去确实很像原本JAST（联合先进攻击技术）的设计，要不是它有个拉姆达型机翼（即近战格

斗机动性最优化设计）它就是个天丅朝版的PAKFA型拦截机。也许是当航妈行动时为她提供一个远程陆

基战斗机巡逻队保护网。

当然还有个远程相控阵雷达。

中国在防御系统方面通常采取整体性的思路，也就是说有了稳定的逐步改善，才会不停的大规模量产

。所以如果接下来天丅朝出了隐形的歼击攻击机、战斗轰炸机，我也不会惊讶的。

PLA空军目前仍然缺乏足够的拦截机（苏30）和战略轰炸机（已过时的西飞产 H-6和獾型）。我希望

歼11和苏27能加速量产，如果丝带确实给力，那空军的下一步就是加强纵深打击能力了。

当然这都还是预想而已。

Marcase wrote:
Just now wondering if this would be a dynamite sales pitch for an Indian JSF...!
12/27/2010 7:04 AM CST
Recommend (6)  Report Abuse  Permalink

我就想知道丝带会不会掀起印度对联合攻击机的狂热购买潮……！

andrei_sh wrote:
Funny thing to see is that Russian VVS Red Star insignia on the vertical tails. Any

suggestions to explain this, apart from an obvious one that this is a stupid fake?
12/27/2010 7:16 AM CST
Recommend (37)  Report Abuse  Permalink

笑死人了，这飞机尾翼那边居然有俄罗斯VVS的红星标记！这不摆明了黑丝是个愚蠢的山寨么？

Marcase wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiрedia/commons/9/91/Roundel_of_the_Peoples_Liberation_Arm

y_Air_Force.svg
12/27/2010 7:27 AM CST
Recommend (13)  Report Abuse  Permalink

（一个link，免翻）

John S wrote:
"...and at this point I'm seeing a "lambda" wing planform, seen ... with a single

straight leading edge and a kinked trailing edge. It first appeared on McDonnell Douglas

JAST studies in the early 1990s."

I do believe the F-101 Voodoo predates the 1990ѕ by a few decadeѕ.

But it was a McDonnell product, sans Douglas...

12/27/2010 7:29 AM CST
Recommend (1)  Report Abuse  Permalink

“...此时我看到了拉姆达机翼平面图，机翼前缘直而后缘弯...它首先由麦道公司在90年代初在JAST

（F-35从中衍生而来）中提出。”
我坚信F-101这种老怪物即使是在90年代也是独领风骚呢！
但它是麦克唐纳出产的东东，当时（麦）可还没跟道格拉斯合并……

tangoviking wrote:
@andrei_sh , PLA star. Yellow and Red.
12/27/2010 7:31 AM CST
Recommend (7)  Report Abuse  Permalink

@andrei_sh, 这星星是PLA的标志，红黄两色丅。

Bill Sweetman wrote:
The Voodoo wasn't that stealthy... ьut I wonder whether the JAST wing was inspired by

it. It's a good way to get proper edge alignments with a lift distribution that's a bit

like a trapezoidal swept wing.
12/27/2010 7:44 AM CST
Recommend (5)  Report Abuse

Voodoo不够隐形...但我怀疑JAST式的机翼可能就是受它启发而来的。
这样的话可以通过这种机翼边缘的设置，使得飞机获得很好的升力，有点像梯形掠翼的作用。


Firefox wrote:
The best Christmass present ever. The day the fly it, I will start studying Chinese.
12/27/2010 8:22 AM CST
Recommend (13)  Report Abuse  Permalink

（这可真是我收到的）最好的圣诞礼物了！哪天丝带真在天上飞了，我就开始学中文。

andrei_sh wrote:
Thanks, Marcase. I do know what PLAAF insignia looks like. Tangoviking, I'm not sure

anybody can tell the color of the thin outline from the distance. But you forgot about

the red ribbon detail in the Chenese roundel. http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/index.htm
12/27/2010 8:23 AM CST
Recommend (1)  Report Abuse  Permalink

谢啦，Marcase。我当然知道PLA的空军标志长啥样。Tangoviking，我不确定在远处还有人能清晰的

分辨出标志上那细细一圈的颜色。不过你忘记了一个细节，中国军徽有条红带。

http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/index.htm

andrei_sh wrote:
Nobody will sell the 117S engines to Chinese, for the next 10 years at least. Our

Chinese brothers may keep dreamin.
12/27/2010 8:43 AM CST
Recommend (5)  Report Abuse  Permalink

最少未来10年都不会有人把117S的发动机卖给TG的。我们的中国大兄弟们就做梦去吧~

David Sullivan wrote:
This makes sense if they have airborne surveilance equal or better to Global Hawk,

missiles equal or better than AIM-120, jammers equal or better than EA-18 and pilots

equal to Red Flag or NAS Fallon. Otherwise, they are just targets.
12/27/2010 10:40 AM CST
Recommend (11)  Report Abuse  Permalink

如果他们有和全球鹰一样好的空中无线监控系统，不弱于AIM-120的导弹，好过EA-18的干扰发射器，

有跟美国空军红旗军演和海军NAS Fallon基地练出来的那样的老鸟，丝带才能算有用。否则就是空中

弱鸡。

BowlWeavil wrote:

We can all be sure Bill and his Australian internet buddies will be ready to crown this

aircraft the world's most deadly as soon as a clear picture of it emerges. (Assuming we

have to wait that long.)

12/27/2010 11:28 AM CST
Recommend (13)  Report Abuse  Permalink

一旦丝带的清晰果照闪亮登场（可能都不用等到那时候！），我敢担保Bill和他的澳洲网友们肯定会

跳出来把它捧成大杀器之王的！

ghemago wrote:
Can't get the Ella or Memorex joke...
Can you help this non native english speaking member?
12/27/2010 11:32 AM CST
Recommend  Report Abuse  Permalink

不太明白你的Ella Fitzgerald或者梅莫雷克斯的笑话……
能不能给非英语母语的介绍下？

Bill Sweetman wrote:
Classy first post, BW. Come back any time you feel like contributing something useful.
12/27/2010 11:34 AM CST
Recommend (19)  Report Abuse  Permalink

BW，乃的处女群嘲就挺给力的嘛！下次如果你肚子里有了干货，欢迎随时来分享~

ghemago wrote:
David S, you are over relaxed and that's the start of most failures...
12/27/2010 11:35 AM CST
Recommend (8)  Report Abuse  Permalink

David ѕ，骄兵必败....

Bill Sweetman wrote:
"Is it live, or is it Memorex?" was a slogan for cassette tapeѕ, back in the far-off

days when there were such things, and Ella Fitzgerald was featured in the Memorex ads.
12/27/2010 11:37 AM CST
Recommend (4)  Report Abuse  Permalink

“这是直播，还是梅莫雷克斯（美国品牌）？”是在磁带还存在的很久很久以前，某磁带的一句广告语，Ella Fitzgerald出演了那个广告。

jetcal1 wrote:
Time will tell. If it's real and not an evolutionary dead end, we'll be seeing more of

it. The questions are:
Can China come up with an engine sufficient for the airframe to reach its potential?
Are the avionics/fire control stealthy enough?
Will it end up like the B-2 with only a few built?
Could thiѕ be the final incentive for DoD to sell the F-22 to Jaрan?

And just to plug in a F-35 question;
Could this this be an opportunity for LMCO to kill the F-35 and put the F-22 back into

production? After all - if this is the real deal, the whole projected threat

scenario/schedule may have just gone out the window.

12/27/2010 11:40 AM CST
Recommend (25)  Report Abuse

时间会证明一切的。如果这是真的，而且会继续发展下去，我们会看到更多的东东。
现在的问题是：
中国能不能生产制造出可以使飞机充分发挥自身潜能的发动机？
丝带的航电和火控设备够不够隐形？
它会像B-2一样，产量稀少吗？
它会吓得霓虹马上向爸爸的国防部要F-22吗？

再问个F-35相关的：
丝带的出现，会不会使得洛克希德停产F-35而重新开始生产F-22？毕竟如果丝带是真的，那F-35所针

对的整个所谓“假想威胁情形”也就不现实了。

【原文地址】： http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/b ... 25-4fbc-a284-008017
【译文地址】：http://www.ptfcn.com/ptfcn/js/172/
【翻译作者】：nonchalantking
【联名作者】：Nicole

tangoviking wrote:
Could be a view in China that for the resources they now put into developing a costly

stealth jet it has to be able to provide high endurance for the air defense role I.E

long patrol times and larger weapons loadѕ. Because perhaps they do not see the

possibility to dramatically mass produce this type of jet today. Seeing how many they

would need for national (and regional) operations.

Just 200 of these with Mach2+ capability and long endurance, plus a lot of BVR-missiles

onboard, coupled with a sizeable AESA would not be a welcomed opponent for a foreign

airforce that has always seen itself as masters of the airspace domain anywhere in the

world.

The lower cost, short range single-engine FCA will be next...
12/27/2010 6:17 AM CST
Recommend (33)  Report Abuse  Permalink

在天丅朝投入如此多的资源于隐形飞机上之后，丝带必须能保证其在空中防卫方面的持久力，即较长滞

空时间和大载弹量，因为空军目前不太可能大规模量产这种飞机，而他们在国家间（和区域间）的各

类行动又急需此类装备。

仅仅有200架这种航速超2马赫、续航力强、配有大量超视距导弹、有强大的相控阵雷达制导的飞机，

可是不够对手看的哦。人家美帝可是自视为世界航空工业的总瓢把子呢~

往后的将会是廉价，短程、单发的未来轻型战斗机...

tangoviking wrote:
Another one Bill.. small but a slightly more lined-up sideview. Sry no credit.



12/27/2010 6:47 AM CST
Recommend (8)  Report Abuse  Permalink

Bill，这是另一张照片...小了点但是更平行一些的侧面图。不保证可信度~

tangoviking wrote:
Oh and the canopy is down on that photo. Seems to be a row of people standing in the

background too. Test run?

12/27/2010 6:59 AM CST
Recommend (9)  Report Abuse  Permalink

囧，这张照片里降落伞（座舱罩？看不到图，不确定说的是哪一部分）已经放下来了。看来也有许多

围观群众站在后排啊。是试飞？

Marcase wrote:
Nice catch Bill and tangoviking.

It has indeed a very similar shape to the original JAST design, and if it does has a

Lambda-type wing (ie optimized for "turn & burn" maneuvering) it could be seen as a

Chinese PAKFA-type interceptor. Perhaps to provide a long-range land-based CAP umbrella

as the aircraft carrier works up.

Big nose for a big AESA btw.

China usually adopts a block approach in (defense) systems, which means successive

production runs show steady incremental improvements. So I wouldn't be surprised to see

a stealthy "F/A" strike-fighter next and ultimately an "FB" type bomber.

The PLAAF still lacks enough interdiction strike (Su-30) and strategic bomber aircraft

(obsolete Xian H-6/Badger). I expect the Jian-11/Su-27 Flankers production will ramp up

soon, so the next logical step would be to extend the deep strike capability after this

J-20 has proven itself as a good base platform.

But this is all pure pre-morning coffee speculation of course.
12/27/2010 7:01 AM CST
Recommend (12)  Report Abuse  Permalink

Bill、tangoviking，乃们拍的很给力。

丝带看上去确实很像原本JAST（联合先进攻击技术）的设计，要不是它有个拉姆达型机翼（即近战格

斗机动性最优化设计）它就是个天丅朝版的PAKFA型拦截机。也许是当航妈行动时为她提供一个远程陆

基战斗机巡逻队保护网。

当然还有个远程相控阵雷达。

中国在防御系统方面通常采取整体性的思路，也就是说有了稳定的逐步改善，才会不停的大规模量产

。所以如果接下来天丅朝出了隐形的歼击攻击机、战斗轰炸机，我也不会惊讶的。

PLA空军目前仍然缺乏足够的拦截机（苏30）和战略轰炸机（已过时的西飞产 H-6和獾型）。我希望

歼11和苏27能加速量产，如果丝带确实给力，那空军的下一步就是加强纵深打击能力了。

当然这都还是预想而已。

Marcase wrote:
Just now wondering if this would be a dynamite sales pitch for an Indian JSF...!
12/27/2010 7:04 AM CST
Recommend (6)  Report Abuse  Permalink

我就想知道丝带会不会掀起印度对联合攻击机的狂热购买潮……！

andrei_sh wrote:
Funny thing to see is that Russian VVS Red Star insignia on the vertical tails. Any

suggestions to explain this, apart from an obvious one that this is a stupid fake?
12/27/2010 7:16 AM CST
Recommend (37)  Report Abuse  Permalink

笑死人了，这飞机尾翼那边居然有俄罗斯VVS的红星标记！这不摆明了黑丝是个愚蠢的山寨么？

Marcase wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiрedia/commons/9/91/Roundel_of_the_Peoples_Liberation_Arm

y_Air_Force.svg
12/27/2010 7:27 AM CST
Recommend (13)  Report Abuse  Permalink

（一个link，免翻）

John S wrote:
"...and at this point I'm seeing a "lambda" wing planform, seen ... with a single

straight leading edge and a kinked trailing edge. It first appeared on McDonnell Douglas

JAST studies in the early 1990s."

I do believe the F-101 Voodoo predates the 1990ѕ by a few decadeѕ.

But it was a McDonnell product, sans Douglas...

12/27/2010 7:29 AM CST
Recommend (1)  Report Abuse  Permalink

“...此时我看到了拉姆达机翼平面图，机翼前缘直而后缘弯...它首先由麦道公司在90年代初在JAST

（F-35从中衍生而来）中提出。”
我坚信F-101这种老怪物即使是在90年代也是独领风骚呢！
但它是麦克唐纳出产的东东，当时（麦）可还没跟道格拉斯合并……

tangoviking wrote:
@andrei_sh , PLA star. Yellow and Red.
12/27/2010 7:31 AM CST
Recommend (7)  Report Abuse  Permalink

@andrei_sh, 这星星是PLA的标志，红黄两色丅。

Bill Sweetman wrote:
The Voodoo wasn't that stealthy... ьut I wonder whether the JAST wing was inspired by

it. It's a good way to get proper edge alignments with a lift distribution that's a bit

like a trapezoidal swept wing.
12/27/2010 7:44 AM CST
Recommend (5)  Report Abuse

Voodoo不够隐形...但我怀疑JAST式的机翼可能就是受它启发而来的。
这样的话可以通过这种机翼边缘的设置，使得飞机获得很好的升力，有点像梯形掠翼的作用。


Firefox wrote:
The best Christmass present ever. The day the fly it, I will start studying Chinese.
12/27/2010 8:22 AM CST
Recommend (13)  Report Abuse  Permalink

（这可真是我收到的）最好的圣诞礼物了！哪天丝带真在天上飞了，我就开始学中文。

andrei_sh wrote:
Thanks, Marcase. I do know what PLAAF insignia looks like. Tangoviking, I'm not sure

anybody can tell the color of the thin outline from the distance. But you forgot about

the red ribbon detail in the Chenese roundel. http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/index.htm
12/27/2010 8:23 AM CST
Recommend (1)  Report Abuse  Permalink

谢啦，Marcase。我当然知道PLA的空军标志长啥样。Tangoviking，我不确定在远处还有人能清晰的

分辨出标志上那细细一圈的颜色。不过你忘记了一个细节，中国军徽有条红带。

http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/index.htm

andrei_sh wrote:
Nobody will sell the 117S engines to Chinese, for the next 10 years at least. Our

Chinese brothers may keep dreamin.
12/27/2010 8:43 AM CST
Recommend (5)  Report Abuse  Permalink

最少未来10年都不会有人把117S的发动机卖给TG的。我们的中国大兄弟们就做梦去吧~

David Sullivan wrote:
This makes sense if they have airborne surveilance equal or better to Global Hawk,

missiles equal or better than AIM-120, jammers equal or better than EA-18 and pilots

equal to Red Flag or NAS Fallon. Otherwise, they are just targets.
12/27/2010 10:40 AM CST
Recommend (11)  Report Abuse  Permalink

如果他们有和全球鹰一样好的空中无线监控系统，不弱于AIM-120的导弹，好过EA-18的干扰发射器，

有跟美国空军红旗军演和海军NAS Fallon基地练出来的那样的老鸟，丝带才能算有用。否则就是空中

弱鸡。

BowlWeavil wrote:

We can all be sure Bill and his Australian internet buddies will be ready to crown this

aircraft the world's most deadly as soon as a clear picture of it emerges. (Assuming we

have to wait that long.)

12/27/2010 11:28 AM CST
Recommend (13)  Report Abuse  Permalink

一旦丝带的清晰果照闪亮登场（可能都不用等到那时候！），我敢担保Bill和他的澳洲网友们肯定会

跳出来把它捧成大杀器之王的！

ghemago wrote:
Can't get the Ella or Memorex joke...
Can you help this non native english speaking member?
12/27/2010 11:32 AM CST
Recommend  Report Abuse  Permalink

不太明白你的Ella Fitzgerald或者梅莫雷克斯的笑话……
能不能给非英语母语的介绍下？

Bill Sweetman wrote:
Classy first post, BW. Come back any time you feel like contributing something useful.
12/27/2010 11:34 AM CST
Recommend (19)  Report Abuse  Permalink

BW，乃的处女群嘲就挺给力的嘛！下次如果你肚子里有了干货，欢迎随时来分享~

ghemago wrote:
David S, you are over relaxed and that's the start of most failures...
12/27/2010 11:35 AM CST
Recommend (8)  Report Abuse  Permalink

David ѕ，骄兵必败....

Bill Sweetman wrote:
"Is it live, or is it Memorex?" was a slogan for cassette tapeѕ, back in the far-off

days when there were such things, and Ella Fitzgerald was featured in the Memorex ads.
12/27/2010 11:37 AM CST
Recommend (4)  Report Abuse  Permalink

“这是直播，还是梅莫雷克斯（美国品牌）？”是在磁带还存在的很久很久以前，某磁带的一句广告语，Ella Fitzgerald出演了那个广告。

jetcal1 wrote:
Time will tell. If it's real and not an evolutionary dead end, we'll be seeing more of

it. The questions are:
Can China come up with an engine sufficient for the airframe to reach its potential?
Are the avionics/fire control stealthy enough?
Will it end up like the B-2 with only a few built?
Could thiѕ be the final incentive for DoD to sell the F-22 to Jaрan?

And just to plug in a F-35 question;
Could this this be an opportunity for LMCO to kill the F-35 and put the F-22 back into

production? After all - if this is the real deal, the whole projected threat

scenario/schedule may have just gone out the window.

12/27/2010 11:40 AM CST
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时间会证明一切的。如果这是真的，而且会继续发展下去，我们会看到更多的东东。
现在的问题是：
中国能不能生产制造出可以使飞机充分发挥自身潜能的发动机？
丝带的航电和火控设备够不够隐形？
它会像B-2一样，产量稀少吗？
它会吓得霓虹马上向爸爸的国防部要F-22吗？

再问个F-35相关的：
丝带的出现，会不会使得洛克希德停产F-35而重新开始生产F-22？毕竟如果丝带是真的，那F-35所针

对的整个所谓“假想威胁情形”也就不现实了。