普拉昌达就任尼泊尔总理后首次接受采访

Prachanda's first interview as Nepal PM


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7596523.stm


Prachanda says he wants socialism established by democratic means
普拉昌达称希望依靠民主方式建立社会主义制度

Nepal's new Maoist prime minister, Prachanda gives his first interview since taking up the post. Excerpts from the interview, with Rabindra Mishra editor of the BBC's Nepali service, are reproduced here

新上任的尼泊尔毛主义总理普拉昌达接受了就职后的首次采访。BBC尼泊尔分社的编辑 Rabindra Mishra 整理摘录，转载于此
____________________________________________________

In the past Maoist leaders had vowed not to keep any private property. They handed over their private properties to the party. Now, what will you do to your salary that you will be drawing as prime minister?

过去，尼共（毛主义）的领导人发誓不保留任何私有财产。他们把私有财产交给了党。现在，您将如何处理您作为总理得到的工资？

That (money) will go to the country and the people. It will be deposited in the party treasury. Except some amount for the general upkeep, the salary will be deposited in the party treasury.

它（工资）将属于国家和人民。它将存放在我党的财库里。除了留下一些作为维持日常的开支，工资将被存放在党的财库里。

Then, how can one be assured of the right to private property under your government when you are yourself are not keeping private property?

那么，如果您本人就不保留私有财产，人们又如何相信你们政府的私有化政策呢？

We do not believe that private property should be abolished. But we believe that the leadership must keep away from making money to ensure that the properties of the people are protected and promoted.

我们并不认为私有财产应当废除。但我们认为领导层一定不能去赚钱，以此保证人民的财产得到保护和增加。

What three things you will do in the next three months that will make a difference to the people?

您在接下来的三个月里将会做哪三件事以给人民耳目一新的感觉？

First, a special committee will be announced to facilitate the integration (of the army) and rehabilitation within six months as part of moves to take the peace process to a logical conclusion. Second, the process of constitution making will be expedited in three months. Third, programmes to provide immediate and long-term relief will be announced.

首先，将成立一个专门的委员会以利于在六个月内完成（军队的）合并和复员工作，这是合乎逻辑地结束和平进程的一个步骤。第二，将在下三个月内加快宪法的制定进程。第三，将宣布向人民提供迅速的和长期的救济制度。

Given that the army integration is being seen as a very sensitive issue will you let the current army chief General Rookmangud Katawal complete his tenure?

鉴于军队合并是一个非常敏感的话题，您会让当前的军队参谋长鲁克曼古德·卡特瓦尔完成他的任期吗？

The demand of the time is to exercise maximum restraint. The country will suffer by any move that breeds bitterness at this juncture.

现在要求保持最大的克制。在此关头任何滋生仇恨的行动都会给国家带来伤害。

So the suspicions about the army chief being sacked are misplaced? He will not be sacked, will he?

所以对军队参谋长将被开除的猜疑是错误的？他不会被开除，是吗？

That will not happen. As long as everyone including the army, the police and the other officials remain committed to the people's mandate on democracy, peace and change, no one needs to feel insecure. There will be no prejudice against any.

那是不会的。由于包括军队、警察和其它官员在内的所有人都忠诚于人民关于民主、和平和变革的要求，谁也没有必要感到不安全。不会对任何人有任何偏见。

How will you handle the army integration? The Nepali Army seems to have its own ideas about this. How will you merge your combatants into the national army?

您怎么处理军队合并问题呢？尼泊尔军队看上去有他们自己的想法。您如何把您的士兵们融合到国家军队中去呢？

Now that I have become prime minister I have been travelling with the army security. I have found a serious commitment and sense of responsibility in the Nepali soldiers. I don't think that we will face any problem in taking this (integration) process to a conclusion.

由于现在我已经成为总理，我一直在巡视军队安全工作。我在尼泊尔士兵身上看到真正的忠诚和责任感。我认为在完成这一（合并）进程方面不会面临任何问题。

If you had so much faith in Nepali Army, why did you distrust the NA and, instead, induct your combatants of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) for your personal security?

如果您对尼泊尔军队有那么大的信心，为什么您不信任尼泊尔军队，反而吸收您的战士们作为您的安全保卫人员呢？

I never showed such distrust. I never wanted to show any bit of distrust towards NA or police or PLA or armed police. Since last two years armed police and PLA personnel had been providing security to my residence in Naya Bazaar. This was an issue that needed a technical solution. I do not want to suspect anyone or make anyone feel humiliated. The PLA also should not feel that they have been orphaned now that I have become Prime Minister. I am quite sensitive on this matter. Both PLA and NA understand the issue very well.

我从未表现那种不信任。我从不想对尼泊尔军队、警察、人民解放军或武装警察表现任何一点的不信任。过去两年来，武装警察和人民解放军为我在纳亚巴扎的住所提供安全保卫工作。这是一个需要技术解决的问题。我不想怀疑任何人或让任何人感到受到屈辱。同样也不能让人民解放军感到我成为总理后他们被抛弃的婴儿。我在这个问题上非常敏感。人民解放军和尼泊尔军队都非常理解这个问题。

Among the 20,000 Maoist combatants in the cantonments, how many will be accommodated into the Nepali Army. What happens to the rest?

大约有20000尼共（毛主义）的士兵在兵营里，多少人将被吸收进尼泊尔军队。其余的人命运又将如何？

The PLA combatants who are staying in the cantonments and who have been verified by the United Nations are all eligible for rehabilitation and integration. According to our latest understanding each and every PLA combatant will be given the freedom to choose whether he/she wants to return home or engage in other professions. Therefore, I am not in a position to say how many PLA combatants will be integrated and how many of them will return home.

驻扎和兵营里的和被联合国核实过的人民解放军战士都有资格参与合并及复员的进程。根据我们最近达成的协议，每一位人民解放军战士都有权自由地选择他（她）应当回家还是从事其它职业。因此，不该由我来讲有多少人民解放军战士被合并，又有多少人回家。

How long will the ex-King Gyanendra be allowed to stay in the Nagarjuna palace?

还会允许前贾南德拉国王在纳加居那王宫里呆多长时间？

We are discussing this matter. The cabinet has just been expanded. It will take up the issue soon.

我们正在讨论这个问题。内阁刚被扩大。它会很快提出这个问题。

Will you re-open the probe into the palace killings (of 2001)?

你们会重新对王室血案（发生于2001年）展开调查吗？

This issue will be raised at the Constituent Assembly. There have been no satisfactory answers yet to the people's serious questions about the incident.

这个问题将由制宪会议提出。人民关于这一事件的非常严肃的问题并没有得到满意的回答。

Perhaps the people could raise similar questions about you also?

或许人民也会会向你们提出同样类似的问题？

Maybe. But the people of Nepal have already justified our action - you call it civil war or people's war - through the constituent assembly verdict. Have the people ever justified the palace killings?

也许吧。然而尼泊尔人民已经通过制宪会议的决定认定我们行动是正当的——你称它为内战或人民战争。然而尼泊尔人民何曾认可王室血案为正当呢？

Do you ever feel that you hands are stained with blood?

您是否曾感到您的手上沾满了鲜血？

Sometimes in the event of grave mistakes on our part, I was emotional. But what is more important is the great process of transformation and the class, ethnic, regional and gender consciousness which have come about through our movement. So I do not feel the need to repent.

有时，在我们一方发生严重错误的事件时，我也会动感情。但更重要的是，通过我们的运动开始了伟大的变革进程，阶级、种族、地区和性别意识产生了。因此，我没有必要感到懊悔。

Would you have visited China first if it had not hosted the Olympic Games?

如果中国不举行奥林匹克运动会您还会首先访问中国吗？

Let's not get into hypothetical questions. Since China is our neighbor and since we could not attend the inaugural ceremony of the Olympics I went there for the closing ceremony. Anyway, it would not have been easier for me to go there first if there had been no Olympic.

我们不要提出一些假设的问题。由于中国是我们的邻国，由于我们没能参加奥运会开幕式，我就去那儿参加了闭幕式。无论如何，如果中国不举行奥运会，我们不会那么方便地首先访问那儿。

Since China is the land of your inspiration Mao Zedong, you must have harboured wishes to travel there?

由于中国是您的鼓舞者毛泽东的故乡，您一定满怀希望去那儿旅行？

I would be lying if I said no.

如果我说不，那是撒谎。

What do you want to do with the 1950 Indo-Nepal treaty?

您将如何对待1950年印度—尼泊尔条约？

Nepal has become a republic passing through big changes since the Rana regime. So, the 1950 treaty should be clearly reviewed. It cannot be kept in the present form.

从拉纳政权以来，尼泊尔经历了重大的变革，已经成为共和国。因此，很清楚，1950年条约需要重新考虑。它不能再以现在这样的方式存在下去了。

What are the provisions that you do not like in the present treaty?

在当前的条约里，您不喜欢哪些条款？

I am engaged in consultations on my visit to India soon. So, I do not want to reply to your question at this point.

我正在对我即将到来的印度之行征求意见，因此，现在我还不想回答您的问题。

When are you visiting to India?

您什么时候访问印度？

I am going to attend the UN General Assembly. I will travel to India before that.

我将要去参加联合国大会。我将在去那以前访问印度。

You used to claim that different power centres were blocking your ascent to power. Have you defeated those centres now?

您过去常说一些不同的权力核心在阻止你们掌握政权，您现在打败了那些核心吗？

I cannot use the same language as I am Prime Minister now. I have said on many occasions that had any other party won the election, nothing would have stopped the formation of a new government within a week. It took four months for us.

由于现在我是总理了我不能再用那同样的字眼。我多次讲过，如果是其它政党赢得了选举，没有谁会阻止政府在一星期内成立，而我们赢得了那么多席位却花了四个月时间。

You have defeated the King and elbowed out Girija Prasad Koirala. Do you feel that you have mastered the policy of 'use and throw'?

您打败了国王并挤走了吉里贾·普拉萨德·柯伊拉腊。您感到您已经掌握了过河拆桥的本领吗？

I am pained by the allegations that we engage in 'use and throw'. I never think that I have cheated anyone. But in course of advancing my cause, I might have made compromises and come closer to one or another at different times. But there was never any conspiracy there. It was our philosophy of cooperating with others to defeat the primary enemy.

当听到我们过河拆桥的指责时我感到痛苦。我从不认为我欺骗了任何人。但在推进我们事业的进程中，在不同的时候，我或许会达成妥协和一些或另一些势力走得比较近。但这没有任何阴谋。团结其它人打败我们的主要敌人，这是我们的哲学。

There are two schools of thoughts within your party - one favouring the People's Republic and the other favouring the Democratic Republic. Which one will prevail?

在你们党内有两股思潮——一派赞成人民共和国，另一派赞成民主共和国。那种思潮会获胜？

That is not the case. There is no illusion within our party regarding our ultimate goal of establishing a Socialist Communism. However, in the current national and international circumstances, we have decided to move ahead by institutionalising the federal democratic republic.

情况并非如此。关于我们的最终目标是建立社会主义和共产主义方面，我们党内没有任何疑问。然而，在当前的国内和国际形势下，我们决定把联邦民主共和国制度化并在此基础上前进。

So, you want to establish a People's Republic by means of the state of the democratic republic?

因此，您想通过建立民主共和国政权的方式建立人民共和国？

We will definitely attempt to establish a People's Republic by institutionalizing democratic republic and through the legitimate means like elections. Once we attain that, we will then work to achieve socialism and communism.

毫无疑问，我们会力图通过把民主共和国制度化和通过象选举那样的法律途径建立人民共和国。一旦我们实现了那一目标，我们将会为实现社会主义和共产主义而努力。

Will there be a people's republic if your party wins a majority in the next election?

如果你们党在下次的选举中赢得大多数，会成立人民共和国吗？

Let's not understand this in a provocative manner. We will definitely try our best to ensure that the new constitution will be as close to the ideal of People's Republic as possible. I believe that the constitution would pave the way for a People's Republic, Socialism and Communism.

我们不要通过假设的方式理解这一点。我们无疑会尽我们的最大努力使新宪法尽可能接近人民共和国的目标。我相信宪法将会为人民共和国、社会主义和共产主义开辟道路。

How can it pave the way for communism when you have said there will be guarantees of all kinds of political freedom?

当您说要保证各种各样的政治自由时，它又如何为共产主义开辟道路呢？

We have concluded that socialism without multiparty competition and political freedoms cannot survive. We have learned this from the experiences of Russia and other countries.

我们已经得出结论，离开了多党竞争和政治自由，社会主义将不能生存下去。我们是从前苏联和其它一些国家的教训中得出这一结论的。

What are you talking about, socialism or communism?

您所指是什么？社会主义还是共产主义？

I am talking about socialism. A lively society can be built only if there are political freedoms and competitions within socialism. Communism is something like a heaven where there is neither a class nor a state nor an army. It will take hundreds of years to reach there.

我指的是社会主义。只有社会主义社会里存在着政治自由和竞争，才会建立一个充满生机和活力的社会。共产主义社会没有阶级、国家和军队，就象天堂一样，需要几百年的时间才能达到那一点。

You are not in a mood to step down as party chairman even after becoming PM. Why?

即使在成为总理后，您也不打算从党主席的位置上退下来，为什么？

Certainly since I will not be able to devote adequate time and energy for the party after becoming the PM, other comrades will have to take more responsibility. But there is no rule anywhere in the world that the party chief has to step down when he becomes PM. Besides, ours is a party that believes in central and unified leadership. So there is no question of abandoning one responsibility when taking up another.

当然，自从我成为总理后我没有足够的时间和精力为党工作，其它同时要担负更多的责任。但世界上没有一个地方规定党的领袖在成为总理后必要下台。而且，我们党赞成集中统一的领导。因此，我不可能在承担起一份责任时而放弃另一份责任。

You once publicly said that top leaders will not join the government and act like Mahatma Gandhi?

您曾经公开说过，（党的）高级领导人不能象圣雄甘地那样参加政府？

What I said that that will happen only after a people's constitution and a stable government are put in place. We believe that a leader does not need to stick to the position of a prime minister or a president once the revolution is completed, constitution is written and the country cruises on a stable course.

我所说的那些，只有在人民宪法和一个稳定的政府形成后才能实现。我们认为一旦革命完成、宪法制定、国家进入稳定的轨道，一位领导人没有必要抓住总理或总统的位置不放。

Politicians are smart in playing with words, aren't they?

政治家都善于玩弄字眼，不是吗？

Not at all, I have only tried to reply in a very direct manner.

丝毫不是。我仅仅是尽量以一种直截了当的方式回答问题。

How long will your government survive?

你们的政府会存在多长时间？

It will continue till the constitution is written and the peace process is completed. I believe our party will win majority, even two-thirds majority in the next election. Then, our government will continue for another five years. We will improve our performance during that period. There will come a situation where people will start thinking that Maoists alone can run this country. In the subsequent election, we expect to win 90 percent votes and we will continue in power for many decades.

它将一直继续下去，直到新宪法的完成与和平进程的结束。我相信我们党在下一次选举中会赢得大多数，甚至是三分之二多数。那么，我们的政府就会再继任五年。在那期间，我们会提高我们的执政水平。在那样的情况下，人民就会开始相信尼共（毛主义）单独就能管理国家。在之后的选举中，我们期待着赢得90%的选票，我们将继续执政几十年。

You have high expectations. Do you believe they will be fulfilled?

您有着很高的期望，您相信它会实现吗？

Definitely. We have strong faith in people. We are devoted to the nation and the people. No one can severe our relation with the people.

毫无疑问。我们充分相信人民。我们忠于国家和人民。任何人都不能把我们和人民分开。

———————————————————————————————

Interview translated from Nepali by Sanjaya Dhakal and Sushil Sharma.

采访内容由 Sanjaya Dhakal 和 Sushil Sharma 根据尼泊尔文译出。Prachanda's first interview as Nepal PM


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7596523.stm


Prachanda says he wants socialism established by democratic means
普拉昌达称希望依靠民主方式建立社会主义制度

Nepal's new Maoist prime minister, Prachanda gives his first interview since taking up the post. Excerpts from the interview, with Rabindra Mishra editor of the BBC's Nepali service, are reproduced here

新上任的尼泊尔毛主义总理普拉昌达接受了就职后的首次采访。BBC尼泊尔分社的编辑 Rabindra Mishra 整理摘录，转载于此
____________________________________________________

In the past Maoist leaders had vowed not to keep any private property. They handed over their private properties to the party. Now, what will you do to your salary that you will be drawing as prime minister?

过去，尼共（毛主义）的领导人发誓不保留任何私有财产。他们把私有财产交给了党。现在，您将如何处理您作为总理得到的工资？

That (money) will go to the country and the people. It will be deposited in the party treasury. Except some amount for the general upkeep, the salary will be deposited in the party treasury.

它（工资）将属于国家和人民。它将存放在我党的财库里。除了留下一些作为维持日常的开支，工资将被存放在党的财库里。

Then, how can one be assured of the right to private property under your government when you are yourself are not keeping private property?

那么，如果您本人就不保留私有财产，人们又如何相信你们政府的私有化政策呢？

We do not believe that private property should be abolished. But we believe that the leadership must keep away from making money to ensure that the properties of the people are protected and promoted.

我们并不认为私有财产应当废除。但我们认为领导层一定不能去赚钱，以此保证人民的财产得到保护和增加。

What three things you will do in the next three months that will make a difference to the people?

您在接下来的三个月里将会做哪三件事以给人民耳目一新的感觉？

First, a special committee will be announced to facilitate the integration (of the army) and rehabilitation within six months as part of moves to take the peace process to a logical conclusion. Second, the process of constitution making will be expedited in three months. Third, programmes to provide immediate and long-term relief will be announced.

首先，将成立一个专门的委员会以利于在六个月内完成（军队的）合并和复员工作，这是合乎逻辑地结束和平进程的一个步骤。第二，将在下三个月内加快宪法的制定进程。第三，将宣布向人民提供迅速的和长期的救济制度。

Given that the army integration is being seen as a very sensitive issue will you let the current army chief General Rookmangud Katawal complete his tenure?

鉴于军队合并是一个非常敏感的话题，您会让当前的军队参谋长鲁克曼古德·卡特瓦尔完成他的任期吗？

The demand of the time is to exercise maximum restraint. The country will suffer by any move that breeds bitterness at this juncture.

现在要求保持最大的克制。在此关头任何滋生仇恨的行动都会给国家带来伤害。

So the suspicions about the army chief being sacked are misplaced? He will not be sacked, will he?

所以对军队参谋长将被开除的猜疑是错误的？他不会被开除，是吗？

That will not happen. As long as everyone including the army, the police and the other officials remain committed to the people's mandate on democracy, peace and change, no one needs to feel insecure. There will be no prejudice against any.

那是不会的。由于包括军队、警察和其它官员在内的所有人都忠诚于人民关于民主、和平和变革的要求，谁也没有必要感到不安全。不会对任何人有任何偏见。

How will you handle the army integration? The Nepali Army seems to have its own ideas about this. How will you merge your combatants into the national army?

您怎么处理军队合并问题呢？尼泊尔军队看上去有他们自己的想法。您如何把您的士兵们融合到国家军队中去呢？

Now that I have become prime minister I have been travelling with the army security. I have found a serious commitment and sense of responsibility in the Nepali soldiers. I don't think that we will face any problem in taking this (integration) process to a conclusion.

由于现在我已经成为总理，我一直在巡视军队安全工作。我在尼泊尔士兵身上看到真正的忠诚和责任感。我认为在完成这一（合并）进程方面不会面临任何问题。

If you had so much faith in Nepali Army, why did you distrust the NA and, instead, induct your combatants of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) for your personal security?

如果您对尼泊尔军队有那么大的信心，为什么您不信任尼泊尔军队，反而吸收您的战士们作为您的安全保卫人员呢？

I never showed such distrust. I never wanted to show any bit of distrust towards NA or police or PLA or armed police. Since last two years armed police and PLA personnel had been providing security to my residence in Naya Bazaar. This was an issue that needed a technical solution. I do not want to suspect anyone or make anyone feel humiliated. The PLA also should not feel that they have been orphaned now that I have become Prime Minister. I am quite sensitive on this matter. Both PLA and NA understand the issue very well.

我从未表现那种不信任。我从不想对尼泊尔军队、警察、人民解放军或武装警察表现任何一点的不信任。过去两年来，武装警察和人民解放军为我在纳亚巴扎的住所提供安全保卫工作。这是一个需要技术解决的问题。我不想怀疑任何人或让任何人感到受到屈辱。同样也不能让人民解放军感到我成为总理后他们被抛弃的婴儿。我在这个问题上非常敏感。人民解放军和尼泊尔军队都非常理解这个问题。

Among the 20,000 Maoist combatants in the cantonments, how many will be accommodated into the Nepali Army. What happens to the rest?

大约有20000尼共（毛主义）的士兵在兵营里，多少人将被吸收进尼泊尔军队。其余的人命运又将如何？

The PLA combatants who are staying in the cantonments and who have been verified by the United Nations are all eligible for rehabilitation and integration. According to our latest understanding each and every PLA combatant will be given the freedom to choose whether he/she wants to return home or engage in other professions. Therefore, I am not in a position to say how many PLA combatants will be integrated and how many of them will return home.

驻扎和兵营里的和被联合国核实过的人民解放军战士都有资格参与合并及复员的进程。根据我们最近达成的协议，每一位人民解放军战士都有权自由地选择他（她）应当回家还是从事其它职业。因此，不该由我来讲有多少人民解放军战士被合并，又有多少人回家。

How long will the ex-King Gyanendra be allowed to stay in the Nagarjuna palace?

还会允许前贾南德拉国王在纳加居那王宫里呆多长时间？

We are discussing this matter. The cabinet has just been expanded. It will take up the issue soon.

我们正在讨论这个问题。内阁刚被扩大。它会很快提出这个问题。

Will you re-open the probe into the palace killings (of 2001)?

你们会重新对王室血案（发生于2001年）展开调查吗？

This issue will be raised at the Constituent Assembly. There have been no satisfactory answers yet to the people's serious questions about the incident.

这个问题将由制宪会议提出。人民关于这一事件的非常严肃的问题并没有得到满意的回答。

Perhaps the people could raise similar questions about you also?

或许人民也会会向你们提出同样类似的问题？

Maybe. But the people of Nepal have already justified our action - you call it civil war or people's war - through the constituent assembly verdict. Have the people ever justified the palace killings?

也许吧。然而尼泊尔人民已经通过制宪会议的决定认定我们行动是正当的——你称它为内战或人民战争。然而尼泊尔人民何曾认可王室血案为正当呢？

Do you ever feel that you hands are stained with blood?

您是否曾感到您的手上沾满了鲜血？

Sometimes in the event of grave mistakes on our part, I was emotional. But what is more important is the great process of transformation and the class, ethnic, regional and gender consciousness which have come about through our movement. So I do not feel the need to repent.

有时，在我们一方发生严重错误的事件时，我也会动感情。但更重要的是，通过我们的运动开始了伟大的变革进程，阶级、种族、地区和性别意识产生了。因此，我没有必要感到懊悔。

Would you have visited China first if it had not hosted the Olympic Games?

如果中国不举行奥林匹克运动会您还会首先访问中国吗？

Let's not get into hypothetical questions. Since China is our neighbor and since we could not attend the inaugural ceremony of the Olympics I went there for the closing ceremony. Anyway, it would not have been easier for me to go there first if there had been no Olympic.

我们不要提出一些假设的问题。由于中国是我们的邻国，由于我们没能参加奥运会开幕式，我就去那儿参加了闭幕式。无论如何，如果中国不举行奥运会，我们不会那么方便地首先访问那儿。

Since China is the land of your inspiration Mao Zedong, you must have harboured wishes to travel there?

由于中国是您的鼓舞者毛泽东的故乡，您一定满怀希望去那儿旅行？

I would be lying if I said no.

如果我说不，那是撒谎。

What do you want to do with the 1950 Indo-Nepal treaty?

您将如何对待1950年印度—尼泊尔条约？

Nepal has become a republic passing through big changes since the Rana regime. So, the 1950 treaty should be clearly reviewed. It cannot be kept in the present form.

从拉纳政权以来，尼泊尔经历了重大的变革，已经成为共和国。因此，很清楚，1950年条约需要重新考虑。它不能再以现在这样的方式存在下去了。

What are the provisions that you do not like in the present treaty?

在当前的条约里，您不喜欢哪些条款？

I am engaged in consultations on my visit to India soon. So, I do not want to reply to your question at this point.

我正在对我即将到来的印度之行征求意见，因此，现在我还不想回答您的问题。

When are you visiting to India?

您什么时候访问印度？

I am going to attend the UN General Assembly. I will travel to India before that.

我将要去参加联合国大会。我将在去那以前访问印度。

You used to claim that different power centres were blocking your ascent to power. Have you defeated those centres now?

您过去常说一些不同的权力核心在阻止你们掌握政权，您现在打败了那些核心吗？

I cannot use the same language as I am Prime Minister now. I have said on many occasions that had any other party won the election, nothing would have stopped the formation of a new government within a week. It took four months for us.

由于现在我是总理了我不能再用那同样的字眼。我多次讲过，如果是其它政党赢得了选举，没有谁会阻止政府在一星期内成立，而我们赢得了那么多席位却花了四个月时间。

You have defeated the King and elbowed out Girija Prasad Koirala. Do you feel that you have mastered the policy of 'use and throw'?

您打败了国王并挤走了吉里贾·普拉萨德·柯伊拉腊。您感到您已经掌握了过河拆桥的本领吗？

I am pained by the allegations that we engage in 'use and throw'. I never think that I have cheated anyone. But in course of advancing my cause, I might have made compromises and come closer to one or another at different times. But there was never any conspiracy there. It was our philosophy of cooperating with others to defeat the primary enemy.

当听到我们过河拆桥的指责时我感到痛苦。我从不认为我欺骗了任何人。但在推进我们事业的进程中，在不同的时候，我或许会达成妥协和一些或另一些势力走得比较近。但这没有任何阴谋。团结其它人打败我们的主要敌人，这是我们的哲学。

There are two schools of thoughts within your party - one favouring the People's Republic and the other favouring the Democratic Republic. Which one will prevail?

在你们党内有两股思潮——一派赞成人民共和国，另一派赞成民主共和国。那种思潮会获胜？

That is not the case. There is no illusion within our party regarding our ultimate goal of establishing a Socialist Communism. However, in the current national and international circumstances, we have decided to move ahead by institutionalising the federal democratic republic.

情况并非如此。关于我们的最终目标是建立社会主义和共产主义方面，我们党内没有任何疑问。然而，在当前的国内和国际形势下，我们决定把联邦民主共和国制度化并在此基础上前进。

So, you want to establish a People's Republic by means of the state of the democratic republic?

因此，您想通过建立民主共和国政权的方式建立人民共和国？

We will definitely attempt to establish a People's Republic by institutionalizing democratic republic and through the legitimate means like elections. Once we attain that, we will then work to achieve socialism and communism.

毫无疑问，我们会力图通过把民主共和国制度化和通过象选举那样的法律途径建立人民共和国。一旦我们实现了那一目标，我们将会为实现社会主义和共产主义而努力。

Will there be a people's republic if your party wins a majority in the next election?

如果你们党在下次的选举中赢得大多数，会成立人民共和国吗？

Let's not understand this in a provocative manner. We will definitely try our best to ensure that the new constitution will be as close to the ideal of People's Republic as possible. I believe that the constitution would pave the way for a People's Republic, Socialism and Communism.

我们不要通过假设的方式理解这一点。我们无疑会尽我们的最大努力使新宪法尽可能接近人民共和国的目标。我相信宪法将会为人民共和国、社会主义和共产主义开辟道路。

How can it pave the way for communism when you have said there will be guarantees of all kinds of political freedom?

当您说要保证各种各样的政治自由时，它又如何为共产主义开辟道路呢？

We have concluded that socialism without multiparty competition and political freedoms cannot survive. We have learned this from the experiences of Russia and other countries.

我们已经得出结论，离开了多党竞争和政治自由，社会主义将不能生存下去。我们是从前苏联和其它一些国家的教训中得出这一结论的。

What are you talking about, socialism or communism?

您所指是什么？社会主义还是共产主义？

I am talking about socialism. A lively society can be built only if there are political freedoms and competitions within socialism. Communism is something like a heaven where there is neither a class nor a state nor an army. It will take hundreds of years to reach there.

我指的是社会主义。只有社会主义社会里存在着政治自由和竞争，才会建立一个充满生机和活力的社会。共产主义社会没有阶级、国家和军队，就象天堂一样，需要几百年的时间才能达到那一点。

You are not in a mood to step down as party chairman even after becoming PM. Why?

即使在成为总理后，您也不打算从党主席的位置上退下来，为什么？

Certainly since I will not be able to devote adequate time and energy for the party after becoming the PM, other comrades will have to take more responsibility. But there is no rule anywhere in the world that the party chief has to step down when he becomes PM. Besides, ours is a party that believes in central and unified leadership. So there is no question of abandoning one responsibility when taking up another.

当然，自从我成为总理后我没有足够的时间和精力为党工作，其它同时要担负更多的责任。但世界上没有一个地方规定党的领袖在成为总理后必要下台。而且，我们党赞成集中统一的领导。因此，我不可能在承担起一份责任时而放弃另一份责任。

You once publicly said that top leaders will not join the government and act like Mahatma Gandhi?

您曾经公开说过，（党的）高级领导人不能象圣雄甘地那样参加政府？

What I said that that will happen only after a people's constitution and a stable government are put in place. We believe that a leader does not need to stick to the position of a prime minister or a president once the revolution is completed, constitution is written and the country cruises on a stable course.

我所说的那些，只有在人民宪法和一个稳定的政府形成后才能实现。我们认为一旦革命完成、宪法制定、国家进入稳定的轨道，一位领导人没有必要抓住总理或总统的位置不放。

Politicians are smart in playing with words, aren't they?

政治家都善于玩弄字眼，不是吗？

Not at all, I have only tried to reply in a very direct manner.

丝毫不是。我仅仅是尽量以一种直截了当的方式回答问题。

How long will your government survive?

你们的政府会存在多长时间？

It will continue till the constitution is written and the peace process is completed. I believe our party will win majority, even two-thirds majority in the next election. Then, our government will continue for another five years. We will improve our performance during that period. There will come a situation where people will start thinking that Maoists alone can run this country. In the subsequent election, we expect to win 90 percent votes and we will continue in power for many decades.

它将一直继续下去，直到新宪法的完成与和平进程的结束。我相信我们党在下一次选举中会赢得大多数，甚至是三分之二多数。那么，我们的政府就会再继任五年。在那期间，我们会提高我们的执政水平。在那样的情况下，人民就会开始相信尼共（毛主义）单独就能管理国家。在之后的选举中，我们期待着赢得90%的选票，我们将继续执政几十年。

You have high expectations. Do you believe they will be fulfilled?

您有着很高的期望，您相信它会实现吗？

Definitely. We have strong faith in people. We are devoted to the nation and the people. No one can severe our relation with the people.

毫无疑问。我们充分相信人民。我们忠于国家和人民。任何人都不能把我们和人民分开。

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Interview translated from Nepali by Sanjaya Dhakal and Sushil Sharma.

采访内容由 Sanjaya Dhakal 和 Sushil Sharma 根据尼泊尔文译出。