超级军网印参加红旗军演苏30不开雷达保密
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/29 21:15:44
据《印度防务》网站2008年8月24日报道 目前印度空军的一批尖子飞行员正在美国内华达州参加"红旗"军事演习，他们在演习中将与来自美国、韩国和法国等国同样优秀的飞行员同场竞技，但是印度飞行员并不能完全放开手脚参加对抗演习。
这首先是因为印度空军为了保守其装备的苏-30MKI战斗机的技术秘密而有意做了限制，如该机的雷达就被限制使用以防止美国方面借机窃取种高技术雷达的秘密。当然这样做无疑会使观察家及美国情报部门感到沮丧。
同时美国军方也对参加演习的印度空军做了种种限制性规定，例如不能使用数据链、箔条及红外干扰弹，这导致印度空军飞机一旦被地空导弹瞄准将很可能被击落。同时印度空军飞机的座舱内无法提供数据图像以帮助增强飞行员的态势感知能力，这导致印度飞行员的工作强度相当大。此外，美国空军最新型的F-22战斗机也令人奇怪地没有参加演习，使其错过了和未来最可能"敌人"的对抗演习机会。
由于上述种种限制，这次"红旗"军演不太象是一场公平和贴近实战的演习。
尽管这样，印度空军官员仍然坚持认为参加"红旗"军演对于印度飞行员来说是一次很好的锻炼机会，而且印度空军一直非常渴望观摩美国军方的"网络中心战"演习。印度空军副参谋长P.V. Naik空军元帅表示，若不具备网络中心战能力将很难和强大敌人保持长时间对抗并获胜，他同时还透露印度自己建设的指挥控制网络将于2010年投入使用。(陈黎)据《印度防务》网站2008年8月24日报道 目前印度空军的一批尖子飞行员正在美国内华达州参加"红旗"军事演习，他们在演习中将与来自美国、韩国和法国等国同样优秀的飞行员同场竞技，但是印度飞行员并不能完全放开手脚参加对抗演习。
这首先是因为印度空军为了保守其装备的苏-30MKI战斗机的技术秘密而有意做了限制，如该机的雷达就被限制使用以防止美国方面借机窃取种高技术雷达的秘密。当然这样做无疑会使观察家及美国情报部门感到沮丧。
同时美国军方也对参加演习的印度空军做了种种限制性规定，例如不能使用数据链、箔条及红外干扰弹，这导致印度空军飞机一旦被地空导弹瞄准将很可能被击落。同时印度空军飞机的座舱内无法提供数据图像以帮助增强飞行员的态势感知能力，这导致印度飞行员的工作强度相当大。此外，美国空军最新型的F-22战斗机也令人奇怪地没有参加演习，使其错过了和未来最可能"敌人"的对抗演习机会。
由于上述种种限制，这次"红旗"军演不太象是一场公平和贴近实战的演习。
尽管这样，印度空军官员仍然坚持认为参加"红旗"军演对于印度飞行员来说是一次很好的锻炼机会，而且印度空军一直非常渴望观摩美国军方的"网络中心战"演习。印度空军副参谋长P.V. Naik空军元帅表示，若不具备网络中心战能力将很难和强大敌人保持长时间对抗并获胜，他同时还透露印度自己建设的指挥控制网络将于2010年投入使用。(陈黎)
这首先是因为印度空军为了保守其装备的苏-30MKI战斗机的技术秘密而有意做了限制，如该机的雷达就被限制使用以防止美国方面借机窃取种高技术雷达的秘密。当然这样做无疑会使观察家及美国情报部门感到沮丧。
同时美国军方也对参加演习的印度空军做了种种限制性规定，例如不能使用数据链、箔条及红外干扰弹，这导致印度空军飞机一旦被地空导弹瞄准将很可能被击落。同时印度空军飞机的座舱内无法提供数据图像以帮助增强飞行员的态势感知能力，这导致印度飞行员的工作强度相当大。此外，美国空军最新型的F-22战斗机也令人奇怪地没有参加演习，使其错过了和未来最可能"敌人"的对抗演习机会。
由于上述种种限制，这次"红旗"军演不太象是一场公平和贴近实战的演习。
尽管这样，印度空军官员仍然坚持认为参加"红旗"军演对于印度飞行员来说是一次很好的锻炼机会，而且印度空军一直非常渴望观摩美国军方的"网络中心战"演习。印度空军副参谋长P.V. Naik空军元帅表示，若不具备网络中心战能力将很难和强大敌人保持长时间对抗并获胜，他同时还透露印度自己建设的指挥控制网络将于2010年投入使用。(陈黎)据《印度防务》网站2008年8月24日报道 目前印度空军的一批尖子飞行员正在美国内华达州参加"红旗"军事演习，他们在演习中将与来自美国、韩国和法国等国同样优秀的飞行员同场竞技，但是印度飞行员并不能完全放开手脚参加对抗演习。
这首先是因为印度空军为了保守其装备的苏-30MKI战斗机的技术秘密而有意做了限制，如该机的雷达就被限制使用以防止美国方面借机窃取种高技术雷达的秘密。当然这样做无疑会使观察家及美国情报部门感到沮丧。
同时美国军方也对参加演习的印度空军做了种种限制性规定，例如不能使用数据链、箔条及红外干扰弹，这导致印度空军飞机一旦被地空导弹瞄准将很可能被击落。同时印度空军飞机的座舱内无法提供数据图像以帮助增强飞行员的态势感知能力，这导致印度飞行员的工作强度相当大。此外，美国空军最新型的F-22战斗机也令人奇怪地没有参加演习，使其错过了和未来最可能"敌人"的对抗演习机会。
由于上述种种限制，这次"红旗"军演不太象是一场公平和贴近实战的演习。
尽管这样，印度空军官员仍然坚持认为参加"红旗"军演对于印度飞行员来说是一次很好的锻炼机会，而且印度空军一直非常渴望观摩美国军方的"网络中心战"演习。印度空军副参谋长P.V. Naik空军元帅表示，若不具备网络中心战能力将很难和强大敌人保持长时间对抗并获胜，他同时还透露印度自己建设的指挥控制网络将于2010年投入使用。(陈黎)
[:a13:] [:a13:] 世界第一雷达[:a13:] [:a13:]
阿三苏三怎么去美国的呀，全程空中加油越洋过去的吗，还是船运过去的。
空中加油去的
应美国空军(USAF)的邀请，印度空军将于2008年8月9日～23日参加在美国内利斯空军基地举行的多国空军演习——08红旗演习。
参加演习的印度空军包括8架苏30MK1战机、2架伊尔-78空中加油机以及1架伊尔-76运输机。成员包括91名官员(包括10名印度空军特殊部队小组成员)以及156名普通人员。
红旗演习是美国空军在内利斯空军举行的一场多国参与的演习，每年举行3次。参与演习的还包括装备F-15K的韩国空军、装备最新型“拉斐尔”战机的法国空军。1975年，美国空军构思了红旗演习，是一种先进的空中作战训练形式，其目的在于确保飞行员能够得到良好的训练，能够在空战中存活下来并获得胜利。该演习同时也为所有参与的空军提供了一个巨大的学习良机。
在参与08红旗演习之前，印度空军将于2008年7月17日～2008年8月7日在霍姆山空军基地飞行F-16S和F-15S，其目的在于熟悉作战进程，了解新的作战环境。
参加演习的印度空军包括8架苏30MK1战机、2架伊尔-78空中加油机以及1架伊尔-76运输机。成员包括91名官员(包括10名印度空军特殊部队小组成员)以及156名普通人员。
红旗演习是美国空军在内利斯空军举行的一场多国参与的演习，每年举行3次。参与演习的还包括装备F-15K的韩国空军、装备最新型“拉斐尔”战机的法国空军。1975年，美国空军构思了红旗演习，是一种先进的空中作战训练形式，其目的在于确保飞行员能够得到良好的训练，能够在空战中存活下来并获得胜利。该演习同时也为所有参与的空军提供了一个巨大的学习良机。
在参与08红旗演习之前，印度空军将于2008年7月17日～2008年8月7日在霍姆山空军基地飞行F-16S和F-15S，其目的在于熟悉作战进程，了解新的作战环境。
不开雷达咋玩？
靠红外和目视？
靠红外和目视？
原帖由 太平洋飓风 于 2008-9-2 15:21 发表
空中加油去的
应该也会在欧洲什么地方落地吧。油可以天上加，尿可不能天上撒:D
原帖由 刺刀上膛 于 2008-9-2 18:33 发表
应该也会在欧洲什么地方落地吧。油可以天上加，尿可不能天上撒:D
从TG原装进口尿不湿...........:D
MKI负责的是对地项目，开不开雷达一个样。
A3不是严格规定，必须目视确认才能开火？
应该是由AWACS负责目标确认.
不过不能放红外干扰弹也太奇怪了.箔条会干扰导航雷达,红外干扰弹应该没问题啊.
不过不能放红外干扰弹也太奇怪了.箔条会干扰导航雷达,红外干扰弹应该没问题啊.
因為MKI的干擾彈與干擾絲不符合美國環保標準
這不是KUSO
是真的
這不是KUSO
是真的
原帖由 秃尾巴狼 于 2008-9-9 15:08 发表
应该是由AWACS负责目标确认.
不过不能放红外干扰弹也太奇怪了.箔条会干扰导航雷达,红外干扰弹应该没问题啊.
原帖由 headbox 于 2008-9-9 14:34 发表
A3不是严格规定，必须目视确认才能开火？
某个帖子上是这么说的
呵呵
是雷达没装吧:o
看来美国人对阿三的技术和新飞机都不屑啊
aw的最新的文章
Indian pilots flying Su-30MKIs are extremely professional, but they're still learning how to best fight with their new aircraft.
That opinion comes from an unidentified, senior F-15 pilot taped while briefing senior retired U.S. Air Force officers about the most recent Red Flag exercise. The video was made available online at YouTube.com.
The French pilots flying the new Dassault Rafale appeared to be there to collect electronic intelligence on the Indian aircraft, contends the USAF pilot, who wears an Air Force Weapons School graduate patch.
The French were originally going to bring the older Mirage 2000-5 until they discovered the Indians were bringing their new Su-30MKIs, the pilot says. They then switched and brought their Rafales with more sophisticated electronic surveillance equipment.
Once at Red Flag, "90 percent of the time they followed the Indians so when they took a shot or got shot" they would take a quick shot of their own and then leave," he said. "They never came to any merges," which starts the dogfighting portion of any air-to-air combat. He asserts that French pilots followed the same procedure during Desert Storm and Peace Keeping exercises. When U.S. aircrews were flying operations, the French would fly local sorties while "sucking up all the trons" to see how U.S. electronics, like radars, worked, according to the pilot.
He praised the Indians as extremely professional and said they had no training rule violations. However, they "killed a lot of friendlies" because they were tied to a Russian-made data link system that didn't allow them to see the picture of the battlefield available to everyone else. The lack of combat identification of the other aircraft caused confusion.
But the U.S. apparently isn't ignorant of the Su-30MKI's radar either.
The Su-30 electronically scanned radar is not as accurate as the U.S.-built active electronically scanned radar carried by the F-22 and some F-15s. Also, "it paints less, sees less" and is not as discriminating.
He praised the F-22 as the next great dogfighter. But he faulted the fact that it carries too few missiles and contends that the on-board cannon could be a life-saver, particularly against aircraft like the MiG-21 Bison flown by the Indians. It has a small radar cross section, as well as an Israeli-made F-16 radar and jammer. The latter makes them "almost invisible to legacy F-15C and F-16 radars" until the aerial merge or until it fires one of its Archer, active radar missiles, the U.S. pilot says.
Against the much larger RCS Su-30MKI, the F-16s and F-15s won consistently during the first three days of air-to-air combat, he continues. However, that was the result of trying to immediately go into a post-stall, thrust-vectored turn when attacked. The turn then creates massive drag and the aircraft starts sinking and losing altitude. "It starts dropping so fast you don't have to go vertical [first]. The low-speed tail slide allowed the U.S. aircraft to dive from above and "get one chance to come down to shoot," the pilot says. "You go to guns and drill his brains out." The Su-30 is jamming your missiles so...you go to guns and drill his brains out."
U.S. pilots conclude that the Su-30MKI is "not [an F-22] Raptor," he further says. "That was good for us to find out." But when the Indian pilots really learn to fight their new aircraft - "they were too anxious to go to the post-stall maneuver," he says-- the USAF pilot predicts that they would regularly defeat the F-16C Block 50 and the F-15C with conventional radar.
A final weakness in the Su-30MKI was its engine's vulnerability to foreign object damage which required them to space takeoffs a minute apart and slowed mission launches.
[:a11:] [:a11:]
aw的最新的文章
Indian pilots flying Su-30MKIs are extremely professional, but they're still learning how to best fight with their new aircraft.
That opinion comes from an unidentified, senior F-15 pilot taped while briefing senior retired U.S. Air Force officers about the most recent Red Flag exercise. The video was made available online at YouTube.com.
The French pilots flying the new Dassault Rafale appeared to be there to collect electronic intelligence on the Indian aircraft, contends the USAF pilot, who wears an Air Force Weapons School graduate patch.
The French were originally going to bring the older Mirage 2000-5 until they discovered the Indians were bringing their new Su-30MKIs, the pilot says. They then switched and brought their Rafales with more sophisticated electronic surveillance equipment.
Once at Red Flag, "90 percent of the time they followed the Indians so when they took a shot or got shot" they would take a quick shot of their own and then leave," he said. "They never came to any merges," which starts the dogfighting portion of any air-to-air combat. He asserts that French pilots followed the same procedure during Desert Storm and Peace Keeping exercises. When U.S. aircrews were flying operations, the French would fly local sorties while "sucking up all the trons" to see how U.S. electronics, like radars, worked, according to the pilot.
He praised the Indians as extremely professional and said they had no training rule violations. However, they "killed a lot of friendlies" because they were tied to a Russian-made data link system that didn't allow them to see the picture of the battlefield available to everyone else. The lack of combat identification of the other aircraft caused confusion.
But the U.S. apparently isn't ignorant of the Su-30MKI's radar either.
The Su-30 electronically scanned radar is not as accurate as the U.S.-built active electronically scanned radar carried by the F-22 and some F-15s. Also, "it paints less, sees less" and is not as discriminating.
He praised the F-22 as the next great dogfighter. But he faulted the fact that it carries too few missiles and contends that the on-board cannon could be a life-saver, particularly against aircraft like the MiG-21 Bison flown by the Indians. It has a small radar cross section, as well as an Israeli-made F-16 radar and jammer. The latter makes them "almost invisible to legacy F-15C and F-16 radars" until the aerial merge or until it fires one of its Archer, active radar missiles, the U.S. pilot says.
Against the much larger RCS Su-30MKI, the F-16s and F-15s won consistently during the first three days of air-to-air combat, he continues. However, that was the result of trying to immediately go into a post-stall, thrust-vectored turn when attacked. The turn then creates massive drag and the aircraft starts sinking and losing altitude. "It starts dropping so fast you don't have to go vertical [first]. The low-speed tail slide allowed the U.S. aircraft to dive from above and "get one chance to come down to shoot," the pilot says. "You go to guns and drill his brains out." The Su-30 is jamming your missiles so...you go to guns and drill his brains out."
U.S. pilots conclude that the Su-30MKI is "not [an F-22] Raptor," he further says. "That was good for us to find out." But when the Indian pilots really learn to fight their new aircraft - "they were too anxious to go to the post-stall maneuver," he says-- the USAF pilot predicts that they would regularly defeat the F-16C Block 50 and the F-15C with conventional radar.
A final weakness in the Su-30MKI was its engine's vulnerability to foreign object damage which required them to space takeoffs a minute apart and slowed mission launches.
[:a11:] [:a11:]
楼上的文章里，倒是觉得MIG-21-93更具威胁，连那种破烂jammer都让它"almost invisible to legacy F-15C and F-16 radars" 。而MKI却是画虎不成反类犬，每次规避导弹过失速机动让它丧失速度和高度，很容易用机炮爆头。
我们如果也能经常参加这种演习就好了。
跟高手对练还是有好处的。
跟高手对练还是有好处的。
原帖由 我立于高山之巅 于 2008-11-6 11:20 发表
楼上的文章里，倒是觉得MIG-21-93更具威胁，连那种破烂jammer都让它"almost invisible to legacy F-15C and F-16 radars" 。而MKI却是画虎不成反类犬，每次规避导弹过失速机动让它丧失速度和高度，很容易用机炮爆头。 ...
什么破烂jammer？
好歹也是以色列货色。;P
The Su-30 electronically scanned radar is not as accurate as the U.S.-built active electronically scanned radar carried by the F-22 and some F-15s. Also, "it paints less, sees less" and is not as discriminating.
SU-30MKI的PESA看来的确是个破烂，看的近分辨率还差，以前有篇国内文章说MKI根本无法分别敌我并不是空穴来风哈。
SU-30MKI的PESA看来的确是个破烂，看的近分辨率还差，以前有篇国内文章说MKI根本无法分别敌我并不是空穴来风哈。
原帖由 aaasssaaa 于 2008-11-6 11:57 发表
什么破烂jammer？
好歹也是以色列货色。;P
21-93和2000计划合并？另外，这里干扰的对象可是美国货，就算AN/ALQ-184 能否达到这种效果都难说。
原帖由 aaasssaaa 于 2008-11-6 12:00 发表
The Su-30 electronically scanned radar is not as accurate as the U.S.-built active electronically scanned radar carried by the F-22 and some F-15s. Also, "it paints less, sees less" and is not as disc ...
但你所引用的这段拿BARS N011M来比APG-77和APG-63V2，未免太不厚道了。前面提到误伤友机，关键问题还在数据链上面。
好玩的的，A3的MKI 和 入侵者的 F-15C、D 都能挂以色列产的jammer ：Elta EL/L 8212 、EL/L 8212
A3的 MiG-27K 也能挂
3者挂 8212、8222 的图我都有
A3的 MiG-27K 也能挂
3者挂 8212、8222 的图我都有
原帖由 我立于高山之巅 于 2008-11-6 12:11 发表
21-93和2000计划合并？另外，这里干扰的对象可是美国货，就算AN/ALQ-184 能否达到这种效果都难说。
原文那个指“后者”的jammer不是是被前面“以色列制”所修饰么？
目标RCS小，所以本身信号被干扰信号遮盖起来自然更容易，这也是为什么不少三代改如11B和18E/F哪怕不能做到有效降低对方侦测距离，也要想办法降低RCS。
原帖由 aaasssaaa 于 2008-11-6 13:01 发表
原文那个指“后者”的jammer不是是被前面“以色列制”所修饰么？
目标RCS小，所以本身信号被干扰信号遮盖起来自然更容易，这也是为什么不少三代改如11B和18E/F哪怕不能做到有效降低对方侦测距离，也要想办法降低R ...
但是就降低RCS的意义来说，依然还是要减小到一定程度的时候才能明显见效，一般模糊的提法是X波段0.1平方米左右。当降低到一定程度的时候，在背景噪声的掩盖下容易产生RCS闪烁，探测距离几乎和RCS呈线性比例关系。按照现有数据看，苏-27和F-15满外挂的RCS 取值在42平方米左右，而F-16在12平方米左右，MIG-21不知道有多少，裸机大概是F-16的一半，这里假设取6平方米，按照4次方比例大概是对F-15的60%探测距离。由于还没到RCS频闪的地步，为何能出现F-15的雷达几乎无法探测到的程度？
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原帖由 我立于高山之巅 于 2008-11-6 13:48 发表
但是就降低RCS的意义来说，依然还是要减小到一定程度的时候才能明显见效，一般模糊的提法是X波段0.1平方米左右。当降低到一定程度的时候，在背景噪声的掩盖下容易产生RCS闪烁，探测距离几乎和RCS呈线性比例关系。 ...
国内的雷达性能计算时．Ｊ７裸机不带外挂的ＲＣＳ当成不到２．５平方米来算．
那MIG-21-93裸机的RCS是什么水平？