这是西方民主吗?求证

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你要是不接受当妓女,我们就可以停了你的救济金(转载)
7754588 2011-9-2 15:21:00
    ’’If you don’’t take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits’’
  “你要是不接受当妓女,我们就可以停了你的救济金”
  By Clare Chapman
  12:01AM GMT 30 Jan 2005
  A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services’’’’ at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.
  在柏林,根据今年引入的法案,一位拒绝了一份在妓院“性服务”的25的岁女服务员面临着可能失去她的失业救济金的危险。
  Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.
  仅仅两年前,卖淫业在德国合法化。因此,妓院的老板们,除了要交税和给员工交健康保险,还获得了使用政府数据库中寻找求职者的机会。
  The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.
  那名女招待是一位失业的信息技术专业人员。她说,她不愿意晚上去酒吧工作,因此找了份在咖啡馆的工作。
  She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her"profile’’’’ and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.
  她收到了一封就业中心的来信,告诉她有一位雇主对她的资料感兴趣,她应该打个电话给他们。直到她打了电话,她才发现她打的是妓院的电话。
  Under Germany’’s welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.
  根据德国的福利改革措施,任何在55岁以下的不工作超过一年的女性可以被强制接受一份工作----包括性产业--- 否则她将失去她的失业救济金。到上个月为止,德国的失业人数已连续11个月上涨,达450万人,这是自1990年两德合并以来的最高数字。
  The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.
  德国政府已将妓院作为一个道德上的特例,但认为要把妓院和酒吧区别开来太难了。因此,就业中心必须将妓院的求职者和牙科护士的求职者同等对待。
  When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise peoplewho turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.
  当这名女侍者想起诉就业中心的时候,却发现他们没有违反法律。而如果就业中心不以停止救济金来处罚那些拒绝工作的人的话,潜在雇主可以对它采取法律行动。
  "There is now nothing in the lawto stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."
  一位来自汉堡的此类案件的专业律师Merchthild Garweg说“现在,在法律上已经没有什么可以阻止妇女被送进性行业了。因为根据新的规定,从事性行业并不是不道德的,所以拒绝这些工作机会将会危及失业救济金。”
  Miss Garweg said that women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model", and should report back on the meeting. Employers in thesex industry can also advertise in job centres, a move that came into force this month. A job centre that refuses to accept the advertisement can be sued.
  Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.
  Garweg说有曾在呼叫中心工作的女性被提供了色情电话热线的工作。在Gotha市的一个就业中心,一个23岁的女性被告知她必须参加一个“裸模”面试会,且须回来汇报。本月起,色情业的雇主们也可以在就业中心登广告。
  就业中心要是拒绝,雇主可以告他们。Tatiana Ulyanova在柏林拥有一家妓院,她已开始利用当地就业中心的在线数据库来招人。
  "Why shouldn’’t I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.
  她说:“我和别人一样交税,凭嘛我就不能也利用就业中心招人呢?”
  Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.
  Ulrich Kueperkoch想在前东德的Goerlitz开个妓院,但当地的就业中心拒绝了他招12个妓的广告,理由是不可能招得到。
  Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court. Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.
  Kueperkoch先生说他对在该地区开窑子的前景很看好,他打算到最高法院打官司,提出赔偿要求。2002年德国的卖淫产业被合法化,因为政府相信这可以帮助抵向德国御贩卖妇女,和切断有组织犯罪。(我的天啊,神理由。不要外国妓,要上就上本地妓!)
  Miss Garweg believes that pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.
  Garweg律师相信就业中心为了要使就业人数达标,很快将导致他们动用切断不接受性工作的女性的救济金的权利。(我靠,原来在明珠国家也要搞达标啊,还直接就逼良为娼啦,果然碉堡了。)
  "They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don’’t count as prostitution,’’’’ she said.
  "Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don’’t want to do."
  她说“以前他们就已经准备把女性介绍到与性相关的工作,但还不包括卖淫。现在卖淫在法律上不再是不道德的了,出了就业中心的良心没什么能阻止他们把女性推进她们不想要的工作了。”(看来德国妇女这辈子的清白都维系在就业中心的良心上了)http://www.tianya.cn/publicforum/content/worldlook/1/382693.shtml你要是不接受当妓女,我们就可以停了你的救济金(转载)
7754588 2011-9-2 15:21:00
    ’’If you don’’t take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits’’
  “你要是不接受当妓女,我们就可以停了你的救济金”
  By Clare Chapman
  12:01AM GMT 30 Jan 2005
  A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services’’’’ at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.
  在柏林,根据今年引入的法案,一位拒绝了一份在妓院“性服务”的25的岁女服务员面临着可能失去她的失业救济金的危险。
  Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.
  仅仅两年前,卖淫业在德国合法化。因此,妓院的老板们,除了要交税和给员工交健康保险,还获得了使用政府数据库中寻找求职者的机会。
  The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.
  那名女招待是一位失业的信息技术专业人员。她说,她不愿意晚上去酒吧工作,因此找了份在咖啡馆的工作。
  She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her"profile’’’’ and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.
  她收到了一封就业中心的来信,告诉她有一位雇主对她的资料感兴趣,她应该打个电话给他们。直到她打了电话,她才发现她打的是妓院的电话。
  Under Germany’’s welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.
  根据德国的福利改革措施,任何在55岁以下的不工作超过一年的女性可以被强制接受一份工作----包括性产业--- 否则她将失去她的失业救济金。到上个月为止,德国的失业人数已连续11个月上涨,达450万人,这是自1990年两德合并以来的最高数字。
  The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.
  德国政府已将妓院作为一个道德上的特例,但认为要把妓院和酒吧区别开来太难了。因此,就业中心必须将妓院的求职者和牙科护士的求职者同等对待。
  When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise peoplewho turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.
  当这名女侍者想起诉就业中心的时候,却发现他们没有违反法律。而如果就业中心不以停止救济金来处罚那些拒绝工作的人的话,潜在雇主可以对它采取法律行动。
  "There is now nothing in the lawto stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."
  一位来自汉堡的此类案件的专业律师Merchthild Garweg说“现在,在法律上已经没有什么可以阻止妇女被送进性行业了。因为根据新的规定,从事性行业并不是不道德的,所以拒绝这些工作机会将会危及失业救济金。”
  Miss Garweg said that women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model", and should report back on the meeting. Employers in thesex industry can also advertise in job centres, a move that came into force this month. A job centre that refuses to accept the advertisement can be sued.
  Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.
  Garweg说有曾在呼叫中心工作的女性被提供了色情电话热线的工作。在Gotha市的一个就业中心,一个23岁的女性被告知她必须参加一个“裸模”面试会,且须回来汇报。本月起,色情业的雇主们也可以在就业中心登广告。
  就业中心要是拒绝,雇主可以告他们。Tatiana Ulyanova在柏林拥有一家妓院,她已开始利用当地就业中心的在线数据库来招人。
  "Why shouldn’’t I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.
  她说:“我和别人一样交税,凭嘛我就不能也利用就业中心招人呢?”
  Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.
  Ulrich Kueperkoch想在前东德的Goerlitz开个妓院,但当地的就业中心拒绝了他招12个妓的广告,理由是不可能招得到。
  Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court. Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.
  Kueperkoch先生说他对在该地区开窑子的前景很看好,他打算到最高法院打官司,提出赔偿要求。2002年德国的卖淫产业被合法化,因为政府相信这可以帮助抵向德国御贩卖妇女,和切断有组织犯罪。(我的天啊,神理由。不要外国妓,要上就上本地妓!)
  Miss Garweg believes that pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.
  Garweg律师相信就业中心为了要使就业人数达标,很快将导致他们动用切断不接受性工作的女性的救济金的权利。(我靠,原来在明珠国家也要搞达标啊,还直接就逼良为娼啦,果然碉堡了。)
  "They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don’’t count as prostitution,’’’’ she said.
  "Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don’’t want to do."
  她说“以前他们就已经准备把女性介绍到与性相关的工作,但还不包括卖淫。现在卖淫在法律上不再是不道德的了,出了就业中心的良心没什么能阻止他们把女性推进她们不想要的工作了。”(看来德国妇女这辈子的清白都维系在就业中心的良心上了)http://www.tianya.cn/publicforum/content/worldlook/1/382693.shtml
看来单纯的依靠法制也有很大的弊端
这妞儿估计长的不错
这问题严重咧,不是民主不民主的问题了,是木有人权,逼良为娼!
liandke77 发表于 2011-9-9 08:52
这问题严重咧,不是民主不民主的问题了,是木有人权,逼良为娼!
你可以选择做或不做       这是多么民主和具有人权的典型案例呀      
这就是程序正义过了头了
民主人民卖淫也是民主。

JY们快去吧。

确实有这样的问题,

有时候明明是没有选择no的可能,但硬是要给出你选择yes or no
红红的小鱼 发表于 2011-9-9 09:02
民主人民卖淫也是民主。

JY们快去吧。
有理~~这是民主的卖啊,jy们求之不得
红红的小鱼 发表于 2011-9-9 09:02
民主人民卖淫也是民主。

JY们快去吧。
有理~~这是民主的卖啊,jy们求之不得
德国应该问题不大
德国一向重口味
程序正义和结果正义,或者说法治最后还是要靠人治来实际的,两者须结合,德国人明显是一根筋的主.
这.....  过几年是不是要 誓死捍卫卖银的权力 ....

taodao 发表于 2011-9-9 09:23
程序正义和结果正义,或者说法治最后还是要靠人治来实际的,两者须结合,德国人明显是一根筋的主.


程序正义和程序本身正义可是两码事哦亲,混淆两者可就分不清是非黑白了哦
taodao 发表于 2011-9-9 09:23
程序正义和结果正义,或者说法治最后还是要靠人治来实际的,两者须结合,德国人明显是一根筋的主.


程序正义和程序本身正义可是两码事哦亲,混淆两者可就分不清是非黑白了哦
怎么回事?帖子被和谐了
民主的卖淫是光荣的。
wzl21 发表于 2011-9-9 10:37
程序正义和程序本身正义可是两码事哦亲,混淆两者可就分不清是非黑白了哦
不存在任何有关结果正当性的独立标准,但是存在着有关形成结果的过程或者程序正当性和合理性的独立标准,因此只要这种正当的程序得到人们恰当的遵守和实际的执行,由它所产生的结果就应被视为是正确和正当的,无论它们可能会是什么样的结果

这就是纯粹意义的程序正义,或者叫狭义的,被放大后会形成的程序本位主义,但却忽略了法制或者制度设立的本意,甚至是程序正义的本意,


我不清楚你说的两码事是指什么,不要太咬文字了,我不做形而上的辩论,
coelicolor 发表于 2011-9-9 09:06
确实有这样的问题,

有时候明明是没有选择no的可能,但硬是要给出你选择yes or no
┌──┐┌──┐
│yes││no │
└──┘└──┘

NO是灰色选项。。
这是社会伦理道德的沦丧,德国已经堕落了。
几年前的事情老吵没意思!
不过就这破事而言确实说明民主不是万能丹!