三哥点评神油国的军工科研

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/05/02 18:44:51
呵呵,刚刚逛了逛阿三的一个英文网站,发现一个极为犀利的评论。就翻译了最精彩也最犀利的一部分

The problem with our engine projects like Kaveri and Arjun engine project is utter lack of understanding in a Babu as to how R&D is done and the complexity of a project. Add to it the incapacity of corrupt Babu to understand the financial benefits of indigenous R&^D and we have inability of India to address defense R&D and production inspite of 1000 years of servitude. Now let me explain.
我们的卡弗里与阿琼引擎等发动机项目问题在于我们的官僚老爷们对于科研的运作与项目的复杂完全一无所知。再加上沉溺于贪污捞钱的老爷们对于根本不了解自主科研对经济的好处,因此我们印度做了千年苦役对科研与生产一无所知。现在具体分析如下:
.........

Problem Uno- There is an idiotic motto that simple things we will import (why reinvent the wheel) but complicated things DRDO should make. Hence we try to make Nuke subs while importing pistols, shoes etc. Though the actual reason is that strategic items have political push but for small items nobody cares. The IAF ignored HTT-40 for 20 years before creating emergency requirement.

Problem – Duo- Refusal to pay for technology import. Even when technology is available, the idiotic Babu will refuse to pay for it. For instance, for Su-30MKI import/indigenous manufacture the requirement was that indigenous manufacture + tech transfer + capital equipment should be less than the cost of imported products. So Whisky and candy industry in India gets protection by customs duty but not defense manufacture.

Problem and Problem – Inability to understand the financial benefits. For instance India would need say around 4000 tanks plus 1000 variants plus get benefit of offshoots of indigenous manufacture. It means that order book of US$ 10 Billion plus say around 15 Billon for spares and upgrade. Which means that around US$ 2 Billion is justified to build an indigenous tank. But the budget allocated will be only US$ 100 million which would be 1/20 th of the required amount. If you look at allocations to Barak, Brahmos etc then they are way above what is given to DRDO.

Last but most important:- R&D budget is calculated by estimating cost of assembling few prototypes from imported components, basic manpower and constructing administrative offices. Hence nothing is done for basic research like building codes for functioning & CFD, or metallurgy, nor optimizing components, nor advanced labs, nor test stands for individual components etc. That is why we get budgets like US$ 89 million for Kaveri while at the same time France was spending around US$ 2 Billion on M88. We get budget (today) of US$ 10 million for FMBT Engine when it should be something like US$ 500-1000 million. Hence the so called research would be just importing a few components, screwing them together, wasting 10 years and then wondering as to why it does not work. It seems that FMBT engine research is going in the same absurd method. The so called industrial partners are component suppliers who will largely be disinterested as they will be asked to supply Rs. few lakhs of material. Most of the money will go for administrative expense while no basic research will be done on metallurgy, building fuel injections system, turbos, refining design, test stands for each component separately to study its behavior in isolation, high tech labs, high tech cad cam design labs etc. We will end up a failure as one cannot have a MBT engine for US$ 10 million. The costing is basically done on the basis that say 10 prototypes need be assembled and it will cost around US$ 10 Million. I am at a loss of words to explain this lunacy of low budgeting our R&D.
最后也是最重要的,我们研发预算仅仅包括从组装从国外进口的零件费用、基本人工费用以及建设办公产所的费用。因此,因此既没有在基本研究如流体力学、冶金学、零件优化没做任何事,在先进实验室与零部件的测试平台上也毫无投入。这正是为什么我们在卡弗里发动机投入8900万元美元,而法国却同时在M88上投入了20亿美元。如今我们计划在FMBT(印度的未来主战坦克项目,阿琼的下一代)项目上投资1000万美元,但实际上该项目本该投入5-10个亿美元。因此,(FMBT)所谓的研究将仅仅是从国外进口一些零件,把它们用螺丝拧在一起,花上个十年,然后惊讶地想知道为什么它不能启动..........
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com ... 3757&start=2160
呵呵,刚刚逛了逛阿三的一个英文网站,发现一个极为犀利的评论。就翻译了最精彩也最犀利的一部分

The problem with our engine projects like Kaveri and Arjun engine project is utter lack of understanding in a Babu as to how R&D is done and the complexity of a project. Add to it the incapacity of corrupt Babu to understand the financial benefits of indigenous R&^D and we have inability of India to address defense R&D and production inspite of 1000 years of servitude. Now let me explain.
我们的卡弗里与阿琼引擎等发动机项目问题在于我们的官僚老爷们对于科研的运作与项目的复杂完全一无所知。再加上沉溺于贪污捞钱的老爷们对于根本不了解自主科研对经济的好处,因此我们印度做了千年苦役对科研与生产一无所知。现在具体分析如下:
.........

Problem Uno- There is an idiotic motto that simple things we will import (why reinvent the wheel) but complicated things DRDO should make. Hence we try to make Nuke subs while importing pistols, shoes etc. Though the actual reason is that strategic items have political push but for small items nobody cares. The IAF ignored HTT-40 for 20 years before creating emergency requirement.

Problem – Duo- Refusal to pay for technology import. Even when technology is available, the idiotic Babu will refuse to pay for it. For instance, for Su-30MKI import/indigenous manufacture the requirement was that indigenous manufacture + tech transfer + capital equipment should be less than the cost of imported products. So Whisky and candy industry in India gets protection by customs duty but not defense manufacture.

Problem and Problem – Inability to understand the financial benefits. For instance India would need say around 4000 tanks plus 1000 variants plus get benefit of offshoots of indigenous manufacture. It means that order book of US$ 10 Billion plus say around 15 Billon for spares and upgrade. Which means that around US$ 2 Billion is justified to build an indigenous tank. But the budget allocated will be only US$ 100 million which would be 1/20 th of the required amount. If you look at allocations to Barak, Brahmos etc then they are way above what is given to DRDO.

Last but most important:- R&D budget is calculated by estimating cost of assembling few prototypes from imported components, basic manpower and constructing administrative offices. Hence nothing is done for basic research like building codes for functioning & CFD, or metallurgy, nor optimizing components, nor advanced labs, nor test stands for individual components etc. That is why we get budgets like US$ 89 million for Kaveri while at the same time France was spending around US$ 2 Billion on M88. We get budget (today) of US$ 10 million for FMBT Engine when it should be something like US$ 500-1000 million. Hence the so called research would be just importing a few components, screwing them together, wasting 10 years and then wondering as to why it does not work. It seems that FMBT engine research is going in the same absurd method. The so called industrial partners are component suppliers who will largely be disinterested as they will be asked to supply Rs. few lakhs of material. Most of the money will go for administrative expense while no basic research will be done on metallurgy, building fuel injections system, turbos, refining design, test stands for each component separately to study its behavior in isolation, high tech labs, high tech cad cam design labs etc. We will end up a failure as one cannot have a MBT engine for US$ 10 million. The costing is basically done on the basis that say 10 prototypes need be assembled and it will cost around US$ 10 Million. I am at a loss of words to explain this lunacy of low budgeting our R&D.
最后也是最重要的,我们研发预算仅仅包括从组装从国外进口的零件费用、基本人工费用以及建设办公产所的费用。因此,因此既没有在基本研究如流体力学、冶金学、零件优化没做任何事,在先进实验室与零部件的测试平台上也毫无投入。这正是为什么我们在卡弗里发动机投入8900万元美元,而法国却同时在M88上投入了20亿美元。如今我们计划在FMBT(印度的未来主战坦克项目,阿琼的下一代)项目上投资1000万美元,但实际上该项目本该投入5-10个亿美元。因此,(FMBT)所谓的研究将仅仅是从国外进口一些零件,把它们用螺丝拧在一起,花上个十年,然后惊讶地想知道为什么它不能启动..........
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com ... 3757&start=2160
这样啊
咋看上去跟CD上一些人说天朝的事儿一个调调哩
贪污捞钱腐败不是中国的专利,资本主义国家一样也有。
三哥……和臭棋篓子下棋越下越臭
code7341 发表于 2010-11-30 23:09
特像前些日子说高铁那感觉。
如今我们计划在FMBT(印度的未来主战坦克项目,阿琼的下一代)项目上投资1000万美元,但实际上该项目本该投入5-10个亿美元。因此,(FMBT)所谓的研究将仅仅是从国外进口一些零件,把它们用螺丝拧在一起,花上个十年,然后惊讶地想知道为什么它不能启动..........

这个挖苦的可不是一般的毒舌
楼主翻墙上去的?http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/这我都上不去
flashdark 发表于 2010-11-30 23:18

这段确实太阴损了。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
That is why we get budgets like US$ 89 million for Kaveri,

号称印度国之重器的卡弗里发动机,搞了二三十年了,预算才八千九百万美元。吐血。。。。。。。。。。。
三哥lca用着f404还那个鸟样,要是用卡弗里。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
阿三在项目上的预算不可能这么点儿
所谓的研究将仅仅是从国外进口一些零件,把它们用螺丝拧在一起,花上个十年,然后惊讶地想知道为什么它不能启动

笑喷了。。就像猴子照人类的飞机模样做了个沙子飞机 惊讶的发现它不会飞
这个...算是印度JY吧~~
笑笑就算,反正到底怎么样国家应该比我们清楚多了
wangpeng0207 发表于 2010-11-30 23:43


    嗯,难得有个明白人
有点客观!
对我们也同样有警示的作用!
印度要是没这些愤青就更垃圾了
貌似是事实,我们也都有过类似的经历
山寨一番以后,发现为啥达不到原装的水平,但好在我们的基础研究一直抓的不错,问题总会得到解决,三哥就比较悲惨了
三弟那儿这样的人还是少点好
{:wuyu:}三哥的装备研究出名的没有计划好高骛远
三哥威武!
麻烦鸟 a3有点清醒的人多起来了啊
wwlsu780780 发表于 2010-12-2 12:56

同意,此人留不得,AA快上
派人把这些清醒的人干掉是最好的解决方法,否则三哥清醒了不得了。
a3竟然还有清醒的人能冒泡,赶紧找人灭了
三哥也是志在全球的,大多数人不太把邻居放在眼里~~~