这个站长太有才了！--Anti-CNN站长勇质美国人权，美国官 ...

http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/viewthre ... p;extra=&page=1
我在美国使馆奥巴马访华吹风会上与美国官员的对话
由 raojin 于 星期五, 11/13/2009 - 14:53 发表 昨天我被美国大使馆邀请去参加一个特别的博客吹风会，主题是讨论奥巴马访华和中美关系。使馆各部门包括政治，经济，军事，领事，科技，能源，贸易和新闻文化处的资深官员参加此次座谈，并在场回答参与者的问题。北京的参与者包括我在内共8位，上海、广州领事馆也使用视频会议的方式参与座谈。最为特别的是，使领馆方面破天荒地开放电脑、手机和3G网卡带入会场，让博客作者全程直播新媒体吹风会，整个过程颇为精彩。美国人坦率地承认，这是为了表示他们对新媒体的重视。
我在座谈会上提了三个问题。第一个问题我问最近中美贸易摩擦频繁，奥巴马访华是否能改善中美贸易。使馆方面回答虽然贸易问题在媒体上面报道的很多，但中美关系范围广泛，贸易只是其中的一部分，而且属于正常的关系和争议之一，双方已经有很良好的讨论，无需担心。第二个问题我问道中国青年了解西方远胜于西方青年了解中国，美国政府有什么措施来促进这种了解？使馆方面说，美国当然会进一步提供美国青年来中国学习的机会，促进互相了解。
第三个问题，我用开玩笑的方式举了PB和变形金刚的例子，提出我对使用这些社交网站时，个人隐私是否会受到潜在的威胁。美方官员很严肃地回答说：“不能仅从电视剧了解美国。”
附：视频和文字记录

（饶谨）问：我们刚才谈到很多关于互联网上自由和人权的问题，平时我也看过很多美国的电视和电影，比如越狱里面，CIA情报机构有很多特殊的权力，可以做到无所不能；比如变形金刚里面，美国的导弹可以随便打到埃及金字塔。所以我也担心，（因为）我现在是Gmail、facebook和twitter的用户，这些服务世界上很多国家的人都在使用。而CIA可以通过一些特殊的方式，随便进入这些服务器，获取个人信息，那么使用者的个人隐私安全如何保证？
另外，据我所知，美国通过了一些法案，可以对一些email的个人信息进行监控。我想问，以反恐的名义进行的监控和过滤，是否会对所有使用者的人权和隐私造成侵犯？
----------------------------------------------------------
以下回答为同声传译，原版回答请看视频：
答1：这是一个非常好的问题，很有意思，我也不知道，谁有答案？ben.
答2：首先，我建议，不要用越狱或变形金刚作为唯一的参考资料来了解美国政府。还要记住，《24小时》是虚构的，真的。美国媒体、政界这两年来，谈的很多的问题，包括个人信息自由，包括联邦政府查看这些信息的权利，这也是奥巴马政府优先的客题，确保民众的自由受到尊重。根据宪法，任何人在没有得到正式许可授权的情况下不得查询这些信息。执行这些规定的方法还在激烈的辩论当中，可是我可以说，你受到的保护程度，远远超过越狱和变形金刚所暗示的样子。
---------------------

Rao Jin asked: "We just talked a lot about freedom and human rights on the Internet.  I have seen many American television series and movies, such as <Prison Break>.  The CIA has many special powers to do anything it wants.  For example, in <The Transformers>, American cruise missiles can hit the Egyptian pyramids at will.  I am concerned.  I am a user of Gmail, Facebook and Twitter, which many people around the world use.  The CIA can use special means to enter those services and obtain personal information.  How can users like us be guaranteed that our personal data are secure?  Also, I know that the USA has enacted certain laws to monitor the personal email information.  Will the Internet control and filtering in the name of anti-terrorism violate the human rights and personal privacy of all users?"
The embassy replied: "This is a very good question.  It is very significant.  I don't know.  Who has the answer?  Ben."
Ben: "First of all, I recommend not using <Prison Break> or <The Transformers> as the sole references to understand the American government.  Please remember that '24' is virtual.  Really.  The American media as well as politicians have discussed many issues over the past two years, including personal freedom of information and the right of the Federal government to inspect this information.  This is a priority issue for the Obama administration to ensure that the freedom of the people are respected.  According to the Constitution, nobody can access these types of information without proper authorization.  How to implement these regulations is still being subjected to vigorous debate.  I can say that the protection accorded to you far exceeds the examples hinted by <Prison Break> and <The Transformers>."

---------------
饶谨评论：我当然知道《越狱》和《变形金刚》是虚构的，但是这些影视作品折射出的一些信息却不得不引起我的忧虑。虽然电影可以夸张，但是现实中的美国情报机构不可能是空头摆设。现实中我们也已经看到了很多例子，比如“窃听门”风波。（背景：“9·11”恐怖袭击之后，美国国家安全局获得总统布什许可，可在没有法院特许状的情况下在国内秘密实施窃听。2005年12月，此事因《纽约时报》揭露而曝光，并引起舆论哗然，美国国民抨击这一行为侵犯公民自由权，并迫使布什在今年1月决定停止这一活动。）而就在两天前，BBC的一篇标题为《UK surveillance plan to go ahead》（英国将着手“盯梢”计划）的报道吸引了我的注意——英国政府准备记录所有网络通信，立法加强网络监控。
所以，当所有人都在使用facebook等社交网络并且上传自己真实的身份信息时，谁能保证美国的情报部门不会渗透到这个领域获取别国公民的信息？相信奥巴马的承诺？
附BBC的报道：（来源：Anti-CNN.com 翻译：Antifake）
UK surveillance plan to go ahead
英国着手（网络）监控计划
By Dominic Casciani

Social networks: Data recorded - but not content
社交网络：数据记录-并不记录具体内容
The Home Office says it will push ahead with plans to ask communications firms to monitor all internet use.
英国内政部表示，将推进要求通信公司监控“所有互联网使用”的计划。
Ministers confirmed their intention despite concerns and opposition from some in the industry.
部长们重申了他们的目的，不管通信行业是否支持。
The proposals include asking firms to retain information on how people use social networks such as Facebook.
这些计划包括，要求通信公司保留人们使用“非死不可”（Facebook）等社区网络的信息。
Some 40% of respondents to the Home Office's consultation opposed the plans - but ministers say communication interception needs to be updated.
大约40％内政部磋商会议的受访者反对此计划——但部长们表示，信息监听方法必须更新。
Both the police and secret security services have legal powers in the UK to intercept communications in the interests of combating crime or threats to national security.
在英国，为了打击犯罪和保护国家安全利益，警察和安全部门具有合法拦截通信的权力。
But the rules largely focus on communications over telephones and do not cover the whole range of internet communications now being used.
但是，这项制度主要集中在对电话通信的拦截上，并不包括已被广泛应用的互联网通讯。
The Home Office says it wants to change the law to compel communication service providers (CSPs) to collect and retain records of communications from a wider range of internet sources, from social networks through to chatrooms and unorthodox methods, such as within online games.
英国内政部表示，希望修改法律，迫使通信服务提供商（CSP）收集和保留互联网上的海量通讯记录，有来自社交网络、在线聊天室，及网络游戏等非正统的地方。
Ministers say that they do not want to create a single government-owned database and only intend to ask CSPs to hold a record of a contact, rather than the actual contents of what was said.
部长们说，他们并不希望建立一个政府独有的数据库，只要求通信服务提供商（CSP）保留联络记录，而不是联络的实际内容。
Technically challenging
技术挑战
Police and other agencies would then be able to ask CSPs for information on when a communication was sent and between whom.
届时，警察和其他机构能够要求通信服务提供商提供，哪些人什么时候跟谁有过联系。
In theory, law enforcement agencies will be able to link that information to specific devices such as an individual's smartphone or laptop.
理论上讲，执法机构能够将这些信息联系到具体的个人设备，如智能手机或笔记本电脑。
The proposals are technically challenging, as they would require a CSP to sort and organise all third-party traffic coming and going through their systems.The estimated &pound;2bn bill for the project includes compensation for the companies involved.
这个计划面临技术上的挑战，因为他们需要CSP对系统中所有第三方流量进行组织排序，这个项目估计需要20亿英镑预算，包括给相关公司的补偿。
Home Office minister David Hanson said: "Communications data is crucial to the fight against crime and in keeping people safe. It is a highly technical area and one which demands a fine balance between privacy and maintaining the capabilities of the police and security services.
内政部部长David Hanson说：“通信数据对于打击犯罪和保护人民安全是非常重要的。这是一个技术性很强的领域，要求在保护隐私权和维持良好警察和安全服务能力之间做到平衡。
"The consultation showed widespread recognition of the importance of communications data in protecting the public and an appreciation of the challenges which rapidly changing technology poses.
“磋商会议结果显示，众人在“利用联络数据保护公众”的重要性上达成普遍共识，并且认识到迅速变化的通信技术所带来的挑战。
"We will now work with communications service providers and others to develop these proposals, and aim to introduce necessary legislation as soon as possible."
“现在我们将与通信服务提供商及相关公司合作，完善这项计划，并且尽快制度相关的法律。”
Opposition and concern
反对和忧虑
The consultation results reveal that 90 of the 221 responses opposed the basic principles that the government should be seeking a method to retain or look at the data.
磋商会议结果显示，221席中有90席反对政府寻求保留或查看数据的基本原则。
The Home Office said that there was a "widespread but not unanimous" recognition of the role of data in protecting the public.But many concerns related to the detail of what would be done with the information.
英国内政部说，在联络数据用于保护公众上面，获得了“广泛但并不完全一致”的共识。但是，很多人忧虑这些信息会用于做什么等细节。
Christopher Graham, the Information Commissioner responsible for overseeing the protection of private information, told the Home Office that while he recognised that the police needed to use communication data to stop crime, this in itself was not a justification to collect all possible data passing through the internet.
负责监督保护个人信息的Christopher Graham专员告诉内政部，虽然，他承认警察需要使用通信数据阻止犯罪，但这用这个理由来收集所有通过互联网的信息并不正当。
"The proposal represents a step change in the relationship between the citizen and the state," said Mr Graham.
“这项计划表现了公民和国家的之间的关系有所改变”，Graham先生说。
"For the first time, this proposal is asking CSPs to collect and create information they would not have previously held and to go further in conducting additional processing on that information.
“通信提供商之前不会保留和对这些资料进行进一步处理，这项计划要求CSP对这些信息进行创建和收集，此属第一次。
"Evidence for this proposal must be available to demonstrate that such a step change is necessary and proportionate."
“支持这一计划的证据能够证明，这个改变是必须并适当的。”http://bbs.anti-cnn.com/viewthre ... p;extra=&page=1
我在美国使馆奥巴马访华吹风会上与美国官员的对话
由 raojin 于 星期五, 11/13/2009 - 14:53 发表 昨天我被美国大使馆邀请去参加一个特别的博客吹风会，主题是讨论奥巴马访华和中美关系。使馆各部门包括政治，经济，军事，领事，科技，能源，贸易和新闻文化处的资深官员参加此次座谈，并在场回答参与者的问题。北京的参与者包括我在内共8位，上海、广州领事馆也使用视频会议的方式参与座谈。最为特别的是，使领馆方面破天荒地开放电脑、手机和3G网卡带入会场，让博客作者全程直播新媒体吹风会，整个过程颇为精彩。美国人坦率地承认，这是为了表示他们对新媒体的重视。
我在座谈会上提了三个问题。第一个问题我问最近中美贸易摩擦频繁，奥巴马访华是否能改善中美贸易。使馆方面回答虽然贸易问题在媒体上面报道的很多，但中美关系范围广泛，贸易只是其中的一部分，而且属于正常的关系和争议之一，双方已经有很良好的讨论，无需担心。第二个问题我问道中国青年了解西方远胜于西方青年了解中国，美国政府有什么措施来促进这种了解？使馆方面说，美国当然会进一步提供美国青年来中国学习的机会，促进互相了解。
第三个问题，我用开玩笑的方式举了PB和变形金刚的例子，提出我对使用这些社交网站时，个人隐私是否会受到潜在的威胁。美方官员很严肃地回答说：“不能仅从电视剧了解美国。”
附：视频和文字记录

（饶谨）问：我们刚才谈到很多关于互联网上自由和人权的问题，平时我也看过很多美国的电视和电影，比如越狱里面，CIA情报机构有很多特殊的权力，可以做到无所不能；比如变形金刚里面，美国的导弹可以随便打到埃及金字塔。所以我也担心，（因为）我现在是Gmail、facebook和twitter的用户，这些服务世界上很多国家的人都在使用。而CIA可以通过一些特殊的方式，随便进入这些服务器，获取个人信息，那么使用者的个人隐私安全如何保证？
另外，据我所知，美国通过了一些法案，可以对一些email的个人信息进行监控。我想问，以反恐的名义进行的监控和过滤，是否会对所有使用者的人权和隐私造成侵犯？
----------------------------------------------------------
以下回答为同声传译，原版回答请看视频：
答1：这是一个非常好的问题，很有意思，我也不知道，谁有答案？ben.
答2：首先，我建议，不要用越狱或变形金刚作为唯一的参考资料来了解美国政府。还要记住，《24小时》是虚构的，真的。美国媒体、政界这两年来，谈的很多的问题，包括个人信息自由，包括联邦政府查看这些信息的权利，这也是奥巴马政府优先的客题，确保民众的自由受到尊重。根据宪法，任何人在没有得到正式许可授权的情况下不得查询这些信息。执行这些规定的方法还在激烈的辩论当中，可是我可以说，你受到的保护程度，远远超过越狱和变形金刚所暗示的样子。
---------------------

Rao Jin asked: "We just talked a lot about freedom and human rights on the Internet.  I have seen many American television series and movies, such as <Prison Break>.  The CIA has many special powers to do anything it wants.  For example, in <The Transformers>, American cruise missiles can hit the Egyptian pyramids at will.  I am concerned.  I am a user of Gmail, Facebook and Twitter, which many people around the world use.  The CIA can use special means to enter those services and obtain personal information.  How can users like us be guaranteed that our personal data are secure?  Also, I know that the USA has enacted certain laws to monitor the personal email information.  Will the Internet control and filtering in the name of anti-terrorism violate the human rights and personal privacy of all users?"
The embassy replied: "This is a very good question.  It is very significant.  I don't know.  Who has the answer?  Ben."
Ben: "First of all, I recommend not using <Prison Break> or <The Transformers> as the sole references to understand the American government.  Please remember that '24' is virtual.  Really.  The American media as well as politicians have discussed many issues over the past two years, including personal freedom of information and the right of the Federal government to inspect this information.  This is a priority issue for the Obama administration to ensure that the freedom of the people are respected.  According to the Constitution, nobody can access these types of information without proper authorization.  How to implement these regulations is still being subjected to vigorous debate.  I can say that the protection accorded to you far exceeds the examples hinted by <Prison Break> and <The Transformers>."

---------------
饶谨评论：我当然知道《越狱》和《变形金刚》是虚构的，但是这些影视作品折射出的一些信息却不得不引起我的忧虑。虽然电影可以夸张，但是现实中的美国情报机构不可能是空头摆设。现实中我们也已经看到了很多例子，比如“窃听门”风波。（背景：“9·11”恐怖袭击之后，美国国家安全局获得总统布什许可，可在没有法院特许状的情况下在国内秘密实施窃听。2005年12月，此事因《纽约时报》揭露而曝光，并引起舆论哗然，美国国民抨击这一行为侵犯公民自由权，并迫使布什在今年1月决定停止这一活动。）而就在两天前，BBC的一篇标题为《UK surveillance plan to go ahead》（英国将着手“盯梢”计划）的报道吸引了我的注意——英国政府准备记录所有网络通信，立法加强网络监控。
所以，当所有人都在使用facebook等社交网络并且上传自己真实的身份信息时，谁能保证美国的情报部门不会渗透到这个领域获取别国公民的信息？相信奥巴马的承诺？
附BBC的报道：（来源：Anti-CNN.com 翻译：Antifake）
UK surveillance plan to go ahead
英国着手（网络）监控计划
By Dominic Casciani

Social networks: Data recorded - but not content
社交网络：数据记录-并不记录具体内容
The Home Office says it will push ahead with plans to ask communications firms to monitor all internet use.
英国内政部表示，将推进要求通信公司监控“所有互联网使用”的计划。
Ministers confirmed their intention despite concerns and opposition from some in the industry.
部长们重申了他们的目的，不管通信行业是否支持。
The proposals include asking firms to retain information on how people use social networks such as Facebook.
这些计划包括，要求通信公司保留人们使用“非死不可”（Facebook）等社区网络的信息。
Some 40% of respondents to the Home Office's consultation opposed the plans - but ministers say communication interception needs to be updated.
大约40％内政部磋商会议的受访者反对此计划——但部长们表示，信息监听方法必须更新。
Both the police and secret security services have legal powers in the UK to intercept communications in the interests of combating crime or threats to national security.
在英国，为了打击犯罪和保护国家安全利益，警察和安全部门具有合法拦截通信的权力。
But the rules largely focus on communications over telephones and do not cover the whole range of internet communications now being used.
但是，这项制度主要集中在对电话通信的拦截上，并不包括已被广泛应用的互联网通讯。
The Home Office says it wants to change the law to compel communication service providers (CSPs) to collect and retain records of communications from a wider range of internet sources, from social networks through to chatrooms and unorthodox methods, such as within online games.
英国内政部表示，希望修改法律，迫使通信服务提供商（CSP）收集和保留互联网上的海量通讯记录，有来自社交网络、在线聊天室，及网络游戏等非正统的地方。
Ministers say that they do not want to create a single government-owned database and only intend to ask CSPs to hold a record of a contact, rather than the actual contents of what was said.
部长们说，他们并不希望建立一个政府独有的数据库，只要求通信服务提供商（CSP）保留联络记录，而不是联络的实际内容。
Technically challenging
技术挑战
Police and other agencies would then be able to ask CSPs for information on when a communication was sent and between whom.
届时，警察和其他机构能够要求通信服务提供商提供，哪些人什么时候跟谁有过联系。
In theory, law enforcement agencies will be able to link that information to specific devices such as an individual's smartphone or laptop.
理论上讲，执法机构能够将这些信息联系到具体的个人设备，如智能手机或笔记本电脑。
The proposals are technically challenging, as they would require a CSP to sort and organise all third-party traffic coming and going through their systems.The estimated &pound;2bn bill for the project includes compensation for the companies involved.
这个计划面临技术上的挑战，因为他们需要CSP对系统中所有第三方流量进行组织排序，这个项目估计需要20亿英镑预算，包括给相关公司的补偿。
Home Office minister David Hanson said: "Communications data is crucial to the fight against crime and in keeping people safe. It is a highly technical area and one which demands a fine balance between privacy and maintaining the capabilities of the police and security services.
内政部部长David Hanson说：“通信数据对于打击犯罪和保护人民安全是非常重要的。这是一个技术性很强的领域，要求在保护隐私权和维持良好警察和安全服务能力之间做到平衡。
"The consultation showed widespread recognition of the importance of communications data in protecting the public and an appreciation of the challenges which rapidly changing technology poses.
“磋商会议结果显示，众人在“利用联络数据保护公众”的重要性上达成普遍共识，并且认识到迅速变化的通信技术所带来的挑战。
"We will now work with communications service providers and others to develop these proposals, and aim to introduce necessary legislation as soon as possible."
“现在我们将与通信服务提供商及相关公司合作，完善这项计划，并且尽快制度相关的法律。”
Opposition and concern
反对和忧虑
The consultation results reveal that 90 of the 221 responses opposed the basic principles that the government should be seeking a method to retain or look at the data.
磋商会议结果显示，221席中有90席反对政府寻求保留或查看数据的基本原则。
The Home Office said that there was a "widespread but not unanimous" recognition of the role of data in protecting the public.But many concerns related to the detail of what would be done with the information.
英国内政部说，在联络数据用于保护公众上面，获得了“广泛但并不完全一致”的共识。但是，很多人忧虑这些信息会用于做什么等细节。
Christopher Graham, the Information Commissioner responsible for overseeing the protection of private information, told the Home Office that while he recognised that the police needed to use communication data to stop crime, this in itself was not a justification to collect all possible data passing through the internet.
负责监督保护个人信息的Christopher Graham专员告诉内政部，虽然，他承认警察需要使用通信数据阻止犯罪，但这用这个理由来收集所有通过互联网的信息并不正当。
"The proposal represents a step change in the relationship between the citizen and the state," said Mr Graham.
“这项计划表现了公民和国家的之间的关系有所改变”，Graham先生说。
"For the first time, this proposal is asking CSPs to collect and create information they would not have previously held and to go further in conducting additional processing on that information.
“通信提供商之前不会保留和对这些资料进行进一步处理，这项计划要求CSP对这些信息进行创建和收集，此属第一次。
"Evidence for this proposal must be available to demonstrate that such a step change is necessary and proportionate."
“支持这一计划的证据能够证明，这个改变是必须并适当的。”