外坛讨论：罗马帝国vs汉帝国

http://www.santaihu.cn/thread-9066-1-1.html


三泰虎12月5日译文，多国网民热议：罗马帝国vs汉帝国。德国网友称，“富有魅力的事实是，中国仍然存在，而其他帝国倒下后就再也没有站起来，比如奥斯曼帝国、蒙古帝国和罗马帝国，就连英帝国也在缩小成原来的规模，甚或会消失在地球上。”荷兰网友称， “汉人是幸运的（多亏了冰河时代），第一批跻身高智商族群，完善了农业艺术，因此有能力在欧亚大陆的一个角落维持异常庞大的人口，而其他帝国就没那么幸运了。”
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
外文标题：Roman Empire vs Han Empire
外文地址：http://defence.pk/threads/roman-empire-vs-han-empire.345411/


Here an stats between the Roman Empire at it's height and the Han empire at it's most powerful.
---------------------------------Rome------------------------------Han
Standing army size----------400,000----------------------------800,000
Horse reserve----------------80,000-----------------------------400,000
Minimum required training----one season------------------------one year
Training required for----------soldiers-----------------every male upon age of 23(meaning over 10 million trained reserves)
Typical general's career------politician--------------------------- military leader
Weapons----------------mostly wrought iron---------------mostly steel by E.Han
Iron industry--------------bloomeries-------------------------blast furnace
Furthest campaign------------890 km (Trajan)------------------1,850 km (Li Guangli)
Government revenue -----3 billion liters*(at its height) ------6 billion liters*(at its height)
以下是巅峰时期罗马帝国和最强大时期汉帝国的统计数据对比：
                    罗马帝国   汉帝国
军队规模： 40万     80万
马匹储备： 8万       40万
训练的最短时间： 1个季度 1年
训练对象： 士兵 23岁以上的所有男性
武器： 主要是锻铁 东汉大多数采用钢铁
炼铁工业： 锻铁炉 鼓风炉
财政收入： 30亿升 60亿升
以下是讨论：
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/2014120502.html
BuddhaPalm（中国）
The Han defeated the Huns, who burned Rome.
汉朝打败了匈奴，后者又烧掉了罗马
atatwolf（土耳其）
Turco-Mongols never took Rome but they took all of China without a sweat.
蒙古人从未占领罗马，但是毫不费力就占领了整个中国
atatwolf（土耳其）
Plus Atilla never burnt down Rome. The Romans bought off the Huns.
阿提拉从未烧掉罗马，罗马人花钱收买了匈奴人。
【三泰虎注：阿提拉（Attila，406年—453年），古代欧亚大陆匈人的领袖和皇帝，史学家称之为“上帝之鞭”，曾多次率领大军入侵东罗马帝国及西罗马帝国，并对两国构成极大的打击】
MarkusS（意大利）
I think we all know how a war between China and Rome would have ended....a roman general climbing on top of piles of chiense corpses, waving the flag of the eagle and shouting "ROMA VICTOR!"
我们都知道中国和罗马爆发战争的后果，即一位罗马将军爬上中国士兵尸体堆上，挥舞着旗帜，高呼“罗马胜利！”
atatwolf（土耳其）
Chinese were ruled by every people on earth. Several Turkic dynasties, Mongols, British, Japanese and few others. Rome (in Italy) was almost never conquered.
中国人先后被地球上每一个民族统治过，他们是几个突厥王朝、蒙古人、英国人，日本人等。
而（意大利）罗马几乎从未被征服过

nguyen（越南）
China was very powerful, no doubt about it. But the problem was, since her body was too big, she could not mobilize all of its force against a particular enemy at a time. So a sharp penetrating cavalry corp running straight into the Chinese capital can deliver a fatal strike to the whole empire. Losing the capital, the rest would fallen into mass disarray and could be conquered part by part.
中国非常强大，这是毋庸置疑的。问题是，中国太庞大了，无法一次性调动所有军队用来对付一个特定的敌人。
所以一支犀利的骑兵军团就可以直插中国首都，给整个帝国予以致命一击。首都沦陷后，其他地方就会陷入大规模混乱，会逐个被征服。

j20（中国）
The ancient China external threats always from the north, every beat nomads,put them to the Central Asian, European side out of the north, the geographical environment is not suitable for farming, two hundred or three hundred years later, another nomadic development
古代中国的外部威胁永远来自北方，每一次打败游牧民族后，就把他们往中亚、欧洲那边赶，北方地理环境又不合适农耕，两三百年后，又有一个游牧民族发展起来

BuddhaPalm（中国）
Ming gunpowder dominates Mongol steppe barbarians.
明朝时期的火药打败蒙古草原的野蛮人

Bong（孟加拉国）
Roman Soldiers were muscular. Roman empire had better Naval power
罗马士兵的肌肉更发达。罗马帝国拥有更强大的海军
TheTruth（台湾）
In movies but not so much in real life. The typical Roman soldier was a midget, and Han especially Northern Han were almost 4 inches taller than them. Likewise Northern Han are at least on par with Caucasoids in physical strength, if not stronger and hardier.
电影上而已，实际上并非如此发达。典型的罗马士兵体型小，而汉人，特别是北方汉人的身高比他们高4英寸左右。同样地，北方汉人的力量即便没有更大，也至少与白种人相当。
oye_natta
Did you see them in hollywood movies?
好莱坞电影上看到的吧？
Bong（孟加拉国）
Yes, where else can I see live demo :sarcastic:Within thousand years, body structure didnt change that much I suppose.
Han empire have advantage on land warfare for their large numbers. But Romans are superior with their military strategy and Naval power.
是啊，要不然哪里还能看。几千年里，身体结构不会改变太大的。
汉帝国军队人数更多，在陆战上具有优势。而罗马帝国在军事战略和水军实力上更胜一筹。
Nihonjin1051（日本）
Muscularity does not predispose to victory.
肌肉发达并不意味着就能获得胜利

Nihonjin1051（日本）





Han Heavy Cavalry
汉朝重装骑兵


Han Army Crossbow
汉朝军弩


Han Army Swords
汉朝军剑

汉军盔甲
Arya Desa（印度）
Obviously the Romans. The orientals had leather/bamboo armor while the Romans had metal. The Romans also had better military doctrine.
显然罗马帝国更强大。东方人的盔甲是皮革或竹制的，而罗马是铁制的。罗马帝国的军事理论也更先进

Reashot Xigwin
The Han influenced east asian culture from chopsticks to Confucianism.
从筷子的使用到儒家思想的熏陶，汉帝国影响了整个东亚文化

dlclong（中国）








Nihonjin1051（日本）
Chinese General of the Song Dynasty:
宋朝的中国将军


Aegis DDG
Who ever said the Han would lose in an naval confrontation with rome is out of their minds. Ever heard of the Battle of Red Cliff during the three kingdom period?
那些说汉帝国会在海战中输给罗马帝国的人是昏了头脑。听说过三国时期的赤壁之战吗？

BoQ77（越南）
Basically Roman created the most modern form of government. Surprisingly !!!
根本上说来，罗马帝国建立了最为现代的政府形式

BoQ77（越南）
Do you hear about Roman Constitution ? Roman Republic ? Senate of Roman ?
听说过罗马宪法？罗马共和国？罗马议会吗？

cnleio
Han Empire's bronze and bluestone armor
汉帝国的青铜盔甲










MarkusS（意大利）



atatwolf（土耳其）
That looks cool, what is it? An aqueduct? We have the same in Istanbul.
看起来很酷。那是什么？高架渠？伊斯坦布尔也有。




MarkusS（意大利）
Yes it is an Aquaeduct. They normally spanned thousands of km to bring water from the mountains to the big cities
是的，是高架渠，通常绵延数千公里，把山里的水送往大城市

Götterdämmerung（德国）
The fascinating fact about this is that China still exists as China while the other former empires never got up again once it got vandalised, such as the Ottoman Empire, Mongol Empire or Roman Empire, even the British Empire practically shrunk back to its former size or vanished from the earth.
富有魅力的事实是，中国仍然存在，而其他帝国倒下后就再也没有站起来，比如奥斯曼帝国、蒙古帝国和罗马帝国，就连英帝国也在缩小成原来的规模，甚或会消失在地球上。
atatwolf（土耳其）
If US didn't intervene in WW2 to save the Chinese from the Japanese, China wouldn't exist at all. It is nothing to be attributed to China.
二战时，美国要是不干预，要是不把中国人从日本人侵略中拯救出来，中国已经不复存在了。这点不能归功于中国
MarkusS（意大利）
the fascinating fact is, that china does not exist as china since it never was the state it is now, neither had it the same people nor had it any impact on world history.
中国并非是以前的中国，今非昔比，人并非是以前的人，对世界历史也无任何影响
Speeder 2（荷兰）
that is because the Han were "fortunate" ( thanks to the ice age) enough to be amonst the first major high IQ race to perfect the art of agriculture, hence being able to sustain an unusually large of population in one of the biggest corners of Eurasian continent, unlike their other empire counter parts.
汉人是幸运的（多亏了冰河时代），第一批跻身高智商族群，完善了农业艺术，因此有能力在欧亚大陆的一个角落维持异常庞大的人口，而其他帝国就没那么幸运了。

Nihonjin1051（日本）
Roman Legionnaire Cavalry:
罗马骑兵军团的士兵



Nihonjin1051（日本）
Rome's greatness was not only realized through her shear military power, but was realized through her architectural know-how:
罗马帝国的伟大之处，并非纯粹通过军事力量来展现，而且是通过建筑知识来得以升华。

http://www.santaihu.cn/thread-9066-1-1.html


三泰虎12月5日译文，多国网民热议：罗马帝国vs汉帝国。德国网友称，“富有魅力的事实是，中国仍然存在，而其他帝国倒下后就再也没有站起来，比如奥斯曼帝国、蒙古帝国和罗马帝国，就连英帝国也在缩小成原来的规模，甚或会消失在地球上。”荷兰网友称， “汉人是幸运的（多亏了冰河时代），第一批跻身高智商族群，完善了农业艺术，因此有能力在欧亚大陆的一个角落维持异常庞大的人口，而其他帝国就没那么幸运了。”
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
外文标题：Roman Empire vs Han Empire
外文地址：http://defence.pk/threads/roman-empire-vs-han-empire.345411/


Here an stats between the Roman Empire at it's height and the Han empire at it's most powerful.
---------------------------------Rome------------------------------Han
Standing army size----------400,000----------------------------800,000
Horse reserve----------------80,000-----------------------------400,000
Minimum required training----one season------------------------one year
Training required for----------soldiers-----------------every male upon age of 23(meaning over 10 million trained reserves)
Typical general's career------politician--------------------------- military leader
Weapons----------------mostly wrought iron---------------mostly steel by E.Han
Iron industry--------------bloomeries-------------------------blast furnace
Furthest campaign------------890 km (Trajan)------------------1,850 km (Li Guangli)
Government revenue -----3 billion liters*(at its height) ------6 billion liters*(at its height)
以下是巅峰时期罗马帝国和最强大时期汉帝国的统计数据对比：
                    罗马帝国   汉帝国
军队规模： 40万     80万
马匹储备： 8万       40万
训练的最短时间： 1个季度 1年
训练对象： 士兵 23岁以上的所有男性
武器： 主要是锻铁 东汉大多数采用钢铁
炼铁工业： 锻铁炉 鼓风炉
财政收入： 30亿升 60亿升
以下是讨论：
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/2014120502.html
BuddhaPalm（中国）
The Han defeated the Huns, who burned Rome.
汉朝打败了匈奴，后者又烧掉了罗马
atatwolf（土耳其）
Turco-Mongols never took Rome but they took all of China without a sweat.
蒙古人从未占领罗马，但是毫不费力就占领了整个中国
atatwolf（土耳其）
Plus Atilla never burnt down Rome. The Romans bought off the Huns.
阿提拉从未烧掉罗马，罗马人花钱收买了匈奴人。
【三泰虎注：阿提拉（Attila，406年—453年），古代欧亚大陆匈人的领袖和皇帝，史学家称之为“上帝之鞭”，曾多次率领大军入侵东罗马帝国及西罗马帝国，并对两国构成极大的打击】
MarkusS（意大利）
I think we all know how a war between China and Rome would have ended....a roman general climbing on top of piles of chiense corpses, waving the flag of the eagle and shouting "ROMA VICTOR!"
我们都知道中国和罗马爆发战争的后果，即一位罗马将军爬上中国士兵尸体堆上，挥舞着旗帜，高呼“罗马胜利！”
atatwolf（土耳其）
Chinese were ruled by every people on earth. Several Turkic dynasties, Mongols, British, Japanese and few others. Rome (in Italy) was almost never conquered.
中国人先后被地球上每一个民族统治过，他们是几个突厥王朝、蒙古人、英国人，日本人等。
而（意大利）罗马几乎从未被征服过

nguyen（越南）
China was very powerful, no doubt about it. But the problem was, since her body was too big, she could not mobilize all of its force against a particular enemy at a time. So a sharp penetrating cavalry corp running straight into the Chinese capital can deliver a fatal strike to the whole empire. Losing the capital, the rest would fallen into mass disarray and could be conquered part by part.
中国非常强大，这是毋庸置疑的。问题是，中国太庞大了，无法一次性调动所有军队用来对付一个特定的敌人。
所以一支犀利的骑兵军团就可以直插中国首都，给整个帝国予以致命一击。首都沦陷后，其他地方就会陷入大规模混乱，会逐个被征服。

j20（中国）
The ancient China external threats always from the north, every beat nomads,put them to the Central Asian, European side out of the north, the geographical environment is not suitable for farming, two hundred or three hundred years later, another nomadic development
古代中国的外部威胁永远来自北方，每一次打败游牧民族后，就把他们往中亚、欧洲那边赶，北方地理环境又不合适农耕，两三百年后，又有一个游牧民族发展起来

BuddhaPalm（中国）
Ming gunpowder dominates Mongol steppe barbarians.
明朝时期的火药打败蒙古草原的野蛮人

Bong（孟加拉国）
Roman Soldiers were muscular. Roman empire had better Naval power
罗马士兵的肌肉更发达。罗马帝国拥有更强大的海军
TheTruth（台湾）
In movies but not so much in real life. The typical Roman soldier was a midget, and Han especially Northern Han were almost 4 inches taller than them. Likewise Northern Han are at least on par with Caucasoids in physical strength, if not stronger and hardier.
电影上而已，实际上并非如此发达。典型的罗马士兵体型小，而汉人，特别是北方汉人的身高比他们高4英寸左右。同样地，北方汉人的力量即便没有更大，也至少与白种人相当。
oye_natta
Did you see them in hollywood movies?
好莱坞电影上看到的吧？
Bong（孟加拉国）
Yes, where else can I see live demo :sarcastic:Within thousand years, body structure didnt change that much I suppose.
Han empire have advantage on land warfare for their large numbers. But Romans are superior with their military strategy and Naval power.
是啊，要不然哪里还能看。几千年里，身体结构不会改变太大的。
汉帝国军队人数更多，在陆战上具有优势。而罗马帝国在军事战略和水军实力上更胜一筹。
Nihonjin1051（日本）
Muscularity does not predispose to victory.
肌肉发达并不意味着就能获得胜利

Nihonjin1051（日本）





Han Heavy Cavalry
汉朝重装骑兵


Han Army Crossbow
汉朝军弩


Han Army Swords
汉朝军剑

汉军盔甲
Arya Desa（印度）
Obviously the Romans. The orientals had leather/bamboo armor while the Romans had metal. The Romans also had better military doctrine.
显然罗马帝国更强大。东方人的盔甲是皮革或竹制的，而罗马是铁制的。罗马帝国的军事理论也更先进

Reashot Xigwin
The Han influenced east asian culture from chopsticks to Confucianism.
从筷子的使用到儒家思想的熏陶，汉帝国影响了整个东亚文化

dlclong（中国）








Nihonjin1051（日本）
Chinese General of the Song Dynasty:
宋朝的中国将军


Aegis DDG
Who ever said the Han would lose in an naval confrontation with rome is out of their minds. Ever heard of the Battle of Red Cliff during the three kingdom period?
那些说汉帝国会在海战中输给罗马帝国的人是昏了头脑。听说过三国时期的赤壁之战吗？

BoQ77（越南）
Basically Roman created the most modern form of government. Surprisingly !!!
根本上说来，罗马帝国建立了最为现代的政府形式

BoQ77（越南）
Do you hear about Roman Constitution ? Roman Republic ? Senate of Roman ?
听说过罗马宪法？罗马共和国？罗马议会吗？

cnleio
Han Empire's bronze and bluestone armor
汉帝国的青铜盔甲










MarkusS（意大利）



atatwolf（土耳其）
That looks cool, what is it? An aqueduct? We have the same in Istanbul.
看起来很酷。那是什么？高架渠？伊斯坦布尔也有。




MarkusS（意大利）
Yes it is an Aquaeduct. They normally spanned thousands of km to bring water from the mountains to the big cities
是的，是高架渠，通常绵延数千公里，把山里的水送往大城市

Götterdämmerung（德国）
The fascinating fact about this is that China still exists as China while the other former empires never got up again once it got vandalised, such as the Ottoman Empire, Mongol Empire or Roman Empire, even the British Empire practically shrunk back to its former size or vanished from the earth.
富有魅力的事实是，中国仍然存在，而其他帝国倒下后就再也没有站起来，比如奥斯曼帝国、蒙古帝国和罗马帝国，就连英帝国也在缩小成原来的规模，甚或会消失在地球上。
atatwolf（土耳其）
If US didn't intervene in WW2 to save the Chinese from the Japanese, China wouldn't exist at all. It is nothing to be attributed to China.
二战时，美国要是不干预，要是不把中国人从日本人侵略中拯救出来，中国已经不复存在了。这点不能归功于中国
MarkusS（意大利）
the fascinating fact is, that china does not exist as china since it never was the state it is now, neither had it the same people nor had it any impact on world history.
中国并非是以前的中国，今非昔比，人并非是以前的人，对世界历史也无任何影响
Speeder 2（荷兰）
that is because the Han were "fortunate" ( thanks to the ice age) enough to be amonst the first major high IQ race to perfect the art of agriculture, hence being able to sustain an unusually large of population in one of the biggest corners of Eurasian continent, unlike their other empire counter parts.
汉人是幸运的（多亏了冰河时代），第一批跻身高智商族群，完善了农业艺术，因此有能力在欧亚大陆的一个角落维持异常庞大的人口，而其他帝国就没那么幸运了。

Nihonjin1051（日本）
Roman Legionnaire Cavalry:
罗马骑兵军团的士兵



Nihonjin1051（日本）
Rome's greatness was not only realized through her shear military power, but was realized through her architectural know-how:
罗马帝国的伟大之处，并非纯粹通过军事力量来展现，而且是通过建筑知识来得以升华。