巴基斯坦防务论坛讨论Y-20

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Shabi1：Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:22 PM
Super!!!

太牛了！

magnus：Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

Y-20 / C-17 / IL-76
Kooldawghd2：Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:04 PM
Looks like they combined the C-17 with the Ilyushin. Heavy lift capabilities are an important part of China's capabilities. Interesting to see if they begin branching out to commercial passenger jet production.

看起来他们好像把C-17和伊尔76整合了。远程投送是中国迫切需要的能力之一。如果他们再这个基础上发展商业喷气式客机那会非常有趣。

Tipu-786：Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

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aamirzs：Posted Yesterday, 06:28 AM
China confirms it's developing large transport aircraft
China is developing Y-20 large transport aircraft to meet its military modernization drive, a Ministry of Defense spokesman said Thursday.
"We are developing large transport aircraft on our own to improve the capability of air transport," spokesman Yang Yujun said at a monthly news briefing held days after photos of a Y-20 appeared online.
The advanced long-range carrier is being developed to serve the military modernization drive, as well as to meet demands in disaster relief work and humanitarian aid in emergency situations, he added.
The spokesman did not say when the Y-20s will be fitted out in force, only saying "the research and development of the large transport aircraft is going forward as planned."There will be a series of steps before the carriers are fitted out, "as the technology is complicated," he added.

中国证实发展大型运输机“为了满足现代化军队建设，中国正在研发大型运输机”，就在Y20照片在网上出现的几天之前, 国防部新闻发言人杨宇军在每月例行发布会说:“为了提高空中投送能力，我们正在自主研发大型运输机。” “先进远程投送平台的研发,不仅是为了服务军队现代化,同时也是为了满足抢险救灾和紧急情况的人道主义援助的需求,他补充道. 这名发言人并没有说Y-20何时装备部队,只提到”大型运输机的研发速度超过了预期.”同时他补充道:”在运输机装备之前还有很多路要走.”

Pakshah：Posted Yesterday, 06:34 AM
Quite and interesting plane design we have here.
Sure the Chinese got inspiration from other designs, but it is an indigenous design indeed.
I wonder what their indigenous passenger planes looks like. I heard of Comac.

安静,又有趣的设计在我们这里.当然中国可以从别的设计得到灵感, 但那确实是自主设计.我很好奇他们自主设计的客机(应该指C919)是什么样的.我听说过中国商用飞机有限公司（Comac）.

aamirzs：Posted Yesterday, 06:45 AM
It was hardly on the level of the J-20's appearance two years ago, but the advent of the Xian J-20 transport over the Christmas holidays was nonetheless important. If nothing else, it's the third all-new Chinese military aircraft to emerge in two years, a pace of innovation unknown since the Cold War. It is also by far the largest indigenously developed Chinese aircraft.

虽然外观很难和两年前出现的J20的水平相比,但是圣诞期间出现的西飞Y-20却非常重要.如果不出意外,这是冷战结束以后,两年之内中国自主研制的第三款全新的军用飞机.同样也是中国自主研发的最大的飞机。

A lot of people are pointing out that the Y-20 looks a lot like most other military jet cargo aircraft, as indeed it does, because few people so far have successfully diverted from the formula that Lockheed-Georgia used with the C-141.

很多人指出Y20看起来很像其他大多数的喷气式飞机.事实上确实如此,因为至今很少有人能成功模仿洛克马丁公司的C-141.

The aircraft is roughly the size of the Il-76 and uses the same engines for now (Saturn D-30KPs, also imported for the H-6K bomber). It is widely predicted that the production version will have a Chinese-produced high-bypass-ratio engine. Other significant details are yet to be revealed, including the design of the landing gear and the high-lift system, which determine the aircraft's ability to use short and soft runways.

这架运输机和ll-76差不多大小,并且使用相同的发动机,( Saturn D-30KPs,也是为轰六引进的).普遍的预测是,中国将有国产高涵道比发动机的量产版.其他显著细节有待被发现,包括起落架和爬升的设计,这些设计关系到运输机使用短而软的跑道的能力.

Some see the Y-20 as the start of a family of special-purpose variants, including an all-domestic airborne early warning and control aircraft, but a large military transport - relatively heavy and draggy - is not really an optimized platform for AEW. The Soviets used the Il-76 because it was the best they had.

一些人预见Y20将是一系列特种飞机改造的开始.包括国产预警机和控制飞机,但是又大又笨的军用运输机并不是预警机的最好的平台.苏联之所以使用ll-76,因为这就是他们拥有的最好的

. So what is the strategic mission for the Y-20? The US developed large airlifters primarily for the reinforcement of Europe, secondly for long-range strategic interventions. Russia developed them (along with a family of air-droppable vehicles) because of a strong belief in the power of airborne combined-armed forces. Some nations, more recently, have acquired them for a mix of missions, ranging from armed intervention to operations other than war - non-combatant evacuations and humanitarian/disaster relief. Exactly what mission mix the PLA has in mind is yet to be revealed.

那么y-20的战略任务是什么?美国发展大型运输机首要是增强欧洲的防御,其次是长期扎略干预.俄罗斯发展运输机(包括一系列可以空降的战车)是出于其对机载作战部队力量的强烈信心.最近,一些国家已经进行了混合演习,范围包括武装干预和非战争任务---非战斗撤离,人道主义援助/灾难救援.究竟PLA是为了满足何种任务有待揭开.

duduong 3:44 PM on 12/26/2012：Actually, there are two parallel development programs for domestic turbofan engines destined for both Y-20 and C-919.

事实上,有两个涡扇发动机同时在研发.注定是为了满足Y-20和C-919

The first is the WS18, a high bypass version of the WS10A, being developed by Shengyang Liming. It was originally due out last year, but like most other Shengyang projects, it is way behind schedule, thus necessitating the substitution of the Russian engines for now.

第一款是WS-18，WS10A的高涵道比型。由沈阳研发.，这个项目本该于去年发布，但是像大多数沈阳的项目一样，落后于计划.现在正寻求俄罗斯发动机来替代.。

The second one is the mythical WS20, purported to be the high bypass version of WS15. Given that the latter is not scheduled for release until the 2015-2016 time frame, we probably won't see WS20 until the end of the decade, by which time an improved and enlarged version of the Y-20 should be ready. This "Y-20G" is rumored to match C-17 ton for ton in lifting capability.

第二款是传说中的WS20,声称是WS15的高涵道比型,如果到2015~2016还未如期发布,那么我们也许只能在这个十年末看到了,到那时Y-20的加大改进型应该出现了.这个”Y-20改”传言和C-17的装载能力不相上下.

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Shabi1：Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:22 PM
Super!!!

太牛了！

magnus：Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

Y-20 / C-17 / IL-76
Kooldawghd2：Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:04 PM
Looks like they combined the C-17 with the Ilyushin. Heavy lift capabilities are an important part of China's capabilities. Interesting to see if they begin branching out to commercial passenger jet production.

看起来他们好像把C-17和伊尔76整合了。远程投送是中国迫切需要的能力之一。如果他们再这个基础上发展商业喷气式客机那会非常有趣。

Tipu-786：Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

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2012-12-28 20:25 上传

aamirzs：Posted Yesterday, 06:28 AM
China confirms it's developing large transport aircraft
China is developing Y-20 large transport aircraft to meet its military modernization drive, a Ministry of Defense spokesman said Thursday.
"We are developing large transport aircraft on our own to improve the capability of air transport," spokesman Yang Yujun said at a monthly news briefing held days after photos of a Y-20 appeared online.
The advanced long-range carrier is being developed to serve the military modernization drive, as well as to meet demands in disaster relief work and humanitarian aid in emergency situations, he added.
The spokesman did not say when the Y-20s will be fitted out in force, only saying "the research and development of the large transport aircraft is going forward as planned."There will be a series of steps before the carriers are fitted out, "as the technology is complicated," he added.

中国证实发展大型运输机“为了满足现代化军队建设，中国正在研发大型运输机”，就在Y20照片在网上出现的几天之前, 国防部新闻发言人杨宇军在每月例行发布会说:“为了提高空中投送能力，我们正在自主研发大型运输机。” “先进远程投送平台的研发,不仅是为了服务军队现代化,同时也是为了满足抢险救灾和紧急情况的人道主义援助的需求,他补充道. 这名发言人并没有说Y-20何时装备部队,只提到”大型运输机的研发速度超过了预期.”同时他补充道:”在运输机装备之前还有很多路要走.”

Pakshah：Posted Yesterday, 06:34 AM
Quite and interesting plane design we have here.
Sure the Chinese got inspiration from other designs, but it is an indigenous design indeed.
I wonder what their indigenous passenger planes looks like. I heard of Comac.

安静,又有趣的设计在我们这里.当然中国可以从别的设计得到灵感, 但那确实是自主设计.我很好奇他们自主设计的客机(应该指C919)是什么样的.我听说过中国商用飞机有限公司（Comac）.

aamirzs：Posted Yesterday, 06:45 AM
It was hardly on the level of the J-20's appearance two years ago, but the advent of the Xian J-20 transport over the Christmas holidays was nonetheless important. If nothing else, it's the third all-new Chinese military aircraft to emerge in two years, a pace of innovation unknown since the Cold War. It is also by far the largest indigenously developed Chinese aircraft.

虽然外观很难和两年前出现的J20的水平相比,但是圣诞期间出现的西飞Y-20却非常重要.如果不出意外,这是冷战结束以后,两年之内中国自主研制的第三款全新的军用飞机.同样也是中国自主研发的最大的飞机。

A lot of people are pointing out that the Y-20 looks a lot like most other military jet cargo aircraft, as indeed it does, because few people so far have successfully diverted from the formula that Lockheed-Georgia used with the C-141.

很多人指出Y20看起来很像其他大多数的喷气式飞机.事实上确实如此,因为至今很少有人能成功模仿洛克马丁公司的C-141.

The aircraft is roughly the size of the Il-76 and uses the same engines for now (Saturn D-30KPs, also imported for the H-6K bomber). It is widely predicted that the production version will have a Chinese-produced high-bypass-ratio engine. Other significant details are yet to be revealed, including the design of the landing gear and the high-lift system, which determine the aircraft's ability to use short and soft runways.

这架运输机和ll-76差不多大小,并且使用相同的发动机,( Saturn D-30KPs,也是为轰六引进的).普遍的预测是,中国将有国产高涵道比发动机的量产版.其他显著细节有待被发现,包括起落架和爬升的设计,这些设计关系到运输机使用短而软的跑道的能力.

Some see the Y-20 as the start of a family of special-purpose variants, including an all-domestic airborne early warning and control aircraft, but a large military transport - relatively heavy and draggy - is not really an optimized platform for AEW. The Soviets used the Il-76 because it was the best they had.

一些人预见Y20将是一系列特种飞机改造的开始.包括国产预警机和控制飞机,但是又大又笨的军用运输机并不是预警机的最好的平台.苏联之所以使用ll-76,因为这就是他们拥有的最好的

. So what is the strategic mission for the Y-20? The US developed large airlifters primarily for the reinforcement of Europe, secondly for long-range strategic interventions. Russia developed them (along with a family of air-droppable vehicles) because of a strong belief in the power of airborne combined-armed forces. Some nations, more recently, have acquired them for a mix of missions, ranging from armed intervention to operations other than war - non-combatant evacuations and humanitarian/disaster relief. Exactly what mission mix the PLA has in mind is yet to be revealed.

那么y-20的战略任务是什么?美国发展大型运输机首要是增强欧洲的防御,其次是长期扎略干预.俄罗斯发展运输机(包括一系列可以空降的战车)是出于其对机载作战部队力量的强烈信心.最近,一些国家已经进行了混合演习,范围包括武装干预和非战争任务---非战斗撤离,人道主义援助/灾难救援.究竟PLA是为了满足何种任务有待揭开.

duduong 3:44 PM on 12/26/2012：Actually, there are two parallel development programs for domestic turbofan engines destined for both Y-20 and C-919.

事实上,有两个涡扇发动机同时在研发.注定是为了满足Y-20和C-919

The first is the WS18, a high bypass version of the WS10A, being developed by Shengyang Liming. It was originally due out last year, but like most other Shengyang projects, it is way behind schedule, thus necessitating the substitution of the Russian engines for now.

第一款是WS-18，WS10A的高涵道比型。由沈阳研发.，这个项目本该于去年发布，但是像大多数沈阳的项目一样，落后于计划.现在正寻求俄罗斯发动机来替代.。

The second one is the mythical WS20, purported to be the high bypass version of WS15. Given that the latter is not scheduled for release until the 2015-2016 time frame, we probably won't see WS20 until the end of the decade, by which time an improved and enlarged version of the Y-20 should be ready. This "Y-20G" is rumored to match C-17 ton for ton in lifting capability.

第二款是传说中的WS20,声称是WS15的高涵道比型,如果到2015~2016还未如期发布,那么我们也许只能在这个十年末看到了,到那时Y-20的加大改进型应该出现了.这个”Y-20改”传言和C-17的装载能力不相上下.