超级军网“这就是战争的艺术，就像我所引用的一样：战争既是金钱 ...
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/28 21:10:42
http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/3180.html
关于中国DOTA打法的一些讨论
Something about chinese dota gameplay
作者:Katherine 发布日期:2011-10-16 14:40:19 浏览:6393
译文简介:在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。译文来源:原文链接:http://www.playdota.com/forums/4 ... nese-dota-gameplay/
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处正文翻译: 楼主JohannDesu
hey guys... sorry for the english im filipino.
based on my observations since i watch that MUCH chinese competitive gameplay... that chinese are only those type of gamers that farms and isn't aggressive.. watch some of their games i knew that whenever they get ganked they just go back and then later on they either countergank them or escape them then go back to farming...
I MEAN come on look at zsmj for example he nearly does not contribute in early game teamfights. he just sits there and farms but later on he is the one carrying the team. ehome didnt want him to farm but they did let him farm and they payed for it.in their game in LGD.sGty vs. Ehome it looks like they only give the farm/creeps to ONE.... YES ONE carry! and its ZSMJ.
嗨~大伙儿~我的英文不是很好，我是菲律宾人。
在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。
（译者注：gank和farm是DOTA里的游戏术语，gank就是抓人击杀，farm就是刷兵打钱。）
来看看ZSMJ吧，在游戏初期，他几乎对团战没有任何贡献。他就是在那一个人farm，但是之后他要扛起整个队伍核心的重任。Ehome不想让他farm，可又没有办法阻止他，于是最后付出了代价。
在LGD.sGty vs. Ehome这场比赛里，看上去他们（LGD.sGty）只把farm的位置留给了一个人，是的，只有一个carry，他就是ZSMJ.（译者注: ZSMJ:他是效力于中国知名dota战队LGD的电子竞技职业选手。前LGD战队的队长；Ehome: 知名中国DOTA电子竞技俱乐部；Carry： 在Dota类游戏中作为战术核心的英雄，比如dota速推战术中的遗忘法师，四保一战术中的幽鬼等。）
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
评论翻译: 1楼Whitefang：
Maybe they are farm type but lets not forget they are also good at ganking and anything which is why they always won the game.
也许他们天生就是farm型选手，但是别忘了，他们同样善于gank，这也是为什么他们总是赢得胜利的原因。
2楼God of Death:
Really? I never noticed...
Must be the new Asian meta game. I wonder what the others do, gank?
真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?
3楼JohannDesu：sarcasm??
but still they rice farm really hard and sometimes does not gank.
@whitefang
yes they are good at ganking but most of the times they are farming. i dunno but i think this is another gameplay from the chinese instead of ganking mad
引用“真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?”
你在讽刺？
但是他们仍然farm得非常努力，有时候也不gank。
回复whitefang
是的他们善于gank，但是大多数时候他们在farm，我不确定但是我认为这是中国选手用来取代疯狂gank型打法的另一种风格。
4楼pilz：
Effective but boring to watch?
很有效的打法，可是看的人会觉得很无聊？
5楼God of Death：
Yes. It's been quite the staple playstyle for a while. In fact, it's a stereotype by now.
Azn Ricers.
EU Gankers.
Etc.
引用“你在讽刺？”
是的，这已经成了一种常见的打法风格了。事实上，现在这都快成为一种成见了。
亚洲打钱狂
欧洲gank狂
诸如此类。
6楼dronza_01：
I Think only one player farms is Ok as long as the other team member gank/ push the other lane. It is the carries job to get fat and rape the other team when he got his items.
我想只用一个选手farm已经够了，其他队友可以参与gank或者推线。
Carry们的作用就是把自己养肥，然后神装虐对面。
7楼red_4900：
Taken from another thread :
Players and viewers often speak of a "Chinese/Asian style" and "European style" as if different continents lean toward different playstyles. As poster boys for what many consider to be the pinnacle of the European style, what is your take on this perception, and why does it exist?
“Well, I think it's a psychological thing. People like to identify themselves with somebody, or at least something, and European style being "more agressive", or so they say, makes them proud. Europeans can hardly identify themselves with Asians, it's simply harder to imagine. Anyway, long story short, Europeans tend to play with much more mistakes, that's why it appears to be more aggressive.
In reality, the quality of the average game is lower, hence the "agressiveness". If the quality of a game rises, people play more carefully, make less mistakes etc., so the game will seem slower. Although it's a better game, it's hard to appreciate it, as the normal viewer doesn't really care about that.
Personally, I enjoy watching both, but I wouldn't watch too many mid quality replays. In the end I do prefer slow paced but high quality games, but honestly I'm not a fan watching replays *smiles*, I just do it for analyzing a team I play against, or sometimes I'll watch a livestream of 2 good teams playing.”
Does this explains why Asian scene seems focused on more ricing and less ganking?
Asian players are great at ganking, they would not gank just for the sake of it. They will only gank when they are sure they will win the proceeding battle.
从别的帖子转的：
“选手们和观众常常提起‘中国/亚洲式风格’和‘欧洲风格’，好像不同的大洲导致了不同的打法风格。”，就像楼主一样，有很多人认为欧洲风格要高一档次，到底是什么让你们有了这样的观点，为什么？”
“好吧，我认为这是一种心理作用。人们喜欢用一些人或者东西去定位自身，欧洲风格一直是‘更具进攻性的’，他们这么说，就会沾沾自喜。欧洲人很难用亚洲人的想法去定位自己，仅仅是由于难以想象。不管怎么样，长话短说，欧洲人倾向于带着更多的失误去打比赛，这也让他们看上去很有进攻性。
在现实中，由于这些‘进攻性’，比赛的平均质量变得更低。如果比赛质量提升了，选手们玩得时候更加小心谨慎，犯更少的错误等等，那么游戏速度就会变得更慢。就算这是一场更好的比赛，却更难被人赞赏，因为普通观众根本不关心这些。
就我自己而言，我两种风格都喜欢，但我不会看太多中等水平的比赛录像。最后我还是要倾向于慢节奏高质量的比赛，可是老实说我并不是一个看录像狂人，（笑~）我看录像只是为了分析我的对手，或者有时候看看两个强队的现场比赛。”
上面这段转贴是否可以解释为什么亚洲选手更注重farm，而不怎么gank呢？
亚洲选手善于gank，但他们不会为了gank而gank，他们只会在确信这将帮助比赛取得胜利的时候进行gank.
8楼KoR.zERo.DVL：
Asians are magnificent gankers.
The only thing that people notice is their carry that is why they say its boring.
亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。
9楼alwaysgorandom：
sigh. another one of these threads?
they´re just as bad as the "QQ new hero threads".
Honestly: who gives a fucK?!?!
唉，又是这样的帖子，就好像那种“又出新英雄了~”的帖子一样无趣，说实话，谁在乎啊？！
10楼Naroblas：
when ehome/sgty are fighting against eachother, it very often lasts more than 70min and do you know why? because they are 2 of the top 3 teams in china and they don't bother ganking them anymore simply because it's too hard so they pick the stronger carry, farm all game and hope to win teamfights.
go watch games where ehome/sgty fight other teams, non-chinese teams, watch eswc and smm games and tell me they can't/don't play aggressive.
当Ehome和LGD打的时候，常常会拖到70分钟以上，你知道是为啥吗？因为他们是中国最顶尖的两只队伍，他们不再会陷于无尽的gank中，仅仅因为这实在是太难了，所以他们选择了强力的carry，farm整场比赛，希望以此赢得团战。
去看看Ehome和LGD对抗别的队伍，特别是非中国队伍的比赛吧，像是ESWC和SMM这类的，然后再来和我说他们打得有没有进攻性。（译者注：ESWC，即Electronic Sport World Cup（电子竞技世界杯）；SMM是一项在DotA各大赛事中为奖金最为丰厚的赛事。）
11楼ALcawN：
they're too asian to see anything but the creep hp bars from their eyes
他们farm得已经到了双眼只剩野怪血条的地步了。
12楼1234567YYF：
The Chinese just have such a deep understanding of the game they go whatever is best to victory. Which is, farm safe, then own.
Should dota ever change to become a game where even fail ganks like what LDHL is showing prove to be more rewarding than farm, then you will see every Chinese players becoming a V-god and ganking 24/7.
中国人对这个游戏有着如此深刻的理解，他们的战术就是安全地farm，然后取得胜利，这让他们百战百胜。
如果DOTA变成一个就算gank失败仍然可以得到比farm更大的利益的游戏时，就像LDHL 里的录像一样，那么你就会看到每一个中国选手都变成了V神然后每场24杀7死。（译者注：LDHL(LOST DotA Highlevel League )DOTA联赛；V神：原文使用V-god，是指一位著名的DOTA选手vigoss，他善于gank，打法凶悍，被众多国内外DotA玩家追捧为Gank之王）
13楼Nizaris：
it is the art of war....that is, and i quote
WAR IS MONEY
Edit : you have more money in your pocket, you have experience, then you don't fear any battle.
know yourself and know your enemy, you will not loose in 100 battles...if you know yourself but don't know your enemy or you know the enemy but don't know yourself, you win half loose half, if you don't know both yourself and the enemy, you forever be in peril...sun tzu say...
这就是战争的艺术，就像我所引用的一样：战争既是金钱。
如果你有更多的钱在你口袋里，你有胜利的经验，那你就不会害怕任何战争。
知己知彼，百战不殆；不知彼而知己，一胜一负；不知彼，不知己，每战必殆。这是孙子说的。
14楼 teng)：
In current/previous metagame, gank is useless. You can't stop 1 or 2 carries by ganking.
Ganking = waste time/exp/gold and let another carry in the other lane free farm when you failed. Wards, trilane, TP, ultimate babysitter/supporter. It's not easy to kill their carry even you outnumber the opponents in 4v3 or 5v3.
Why waste time ganking while you can't win the game with it??? Woah! gank 24/7 and the game looks fun! Too much pubs?
EHOME was king because they know gank in shit, when they play against a team that not at the same level with them, they will gank and the game will looks like a pubstomp.
There is only Turtle or Pushing in DotA, there is no a strategy name gank (keep on 5 man team battle and see who gank better?)
在以往的正规比赛中，gank的作用很小，你不能通过gank来限制对面的一两个carry。
Gank等于浪费时间/经验/金钱并让对方别的carry在另一条线上自由打钱到你们输掉为止。
塔，三条线，回城卷以及无数的奶妈和支援让杀死他们的carry变得异常艰难，就算你在数量上比他们多一两个也没用。
为什么要在gank帮助不了你取得胜利的时候还去gank呢？哇喔~！24个人头，比赛精彩极了！这样？球赛酒吧泡多了吧你！
Ehome之所以能成为王者是因为他们知道gank就是坨屎，只有当他们和一支不在同一水平的队伍比赛时，他们才会gank，让这场比赛看上去更有趣些。
在dota里，只有龟缩和推进两种战术，从来没有一种战术叫gank（5人团战里看谁gank得更好？）
15楼gobo：
what a basic misunderstanding.
they are not farm oriented. they just can do it better than most others.
they are not ricing, they are timing pushing with items. it's the skill of their mates that allows them to do that.
you really should watch the latest commentary of 2009 on a Nv.cn vs Scythe game.
basic idea is: don't do stupid things. many teams still didn't get that.
真是低级的误解。
他们不是生来就爱farm，他们只是可以把这做的比大多数人都好。
他们不是在无限打野，他们只是在累积装备。是靠他们队友的技术才使得他们有空间去这样做。
你真的应该看看2009年那场Nv.cn vs Scythe的比赛。
最基本的道理是：别做蠢事。许多队伍至今仍然不懂这个道理。
16楼：nico8691
china players have more map warness, i knowledge, so you can't gank zsmj easily, they are the best gankers, but they can't gank diving the tower while 2 supports are protecting the carry, so they stay farming, and ganking just when it's viable
据我所知，中国选手拥有更好的地图意识。所以你不能轻易地gank 到ZSMJ，他们是最好的gank者，但是他们无法在有两个队友保着carry的情况下还在对方塔下杀人，所以他们选择了farm，然后再在适当的时候gank。
17楼WickeDD：
Asians are total shit at ganking. Every time ive seen an asian team (Nv.cn/Ehome) try to pull off a gank push strat they fail miserably.
They can only turtle.
In the previous metagame where people didnt think creative enough Ehome won ESWC and right now MYM is king with gank/push strategies.
引用“亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。”
亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。
他们只能龟缩。
在过去的正式比赛里，人们觉得Ehome的创造性不足以让他们赢得ESWC的想法是对的。现在MYM才是gank和推进流的王者。（译者注：MYM是一个世界闻名的专业电子竞技俱乐部，拥有世界各地的的顶级竞技选手。MYM总部设在丹麦歌本哈根市，在德国设有子公司，该战队由Esports I/S公司所拥有。）
18楼lixiaolu：
The art of not dying to stupid ganks? Seriously, watching yr favourite team rape a bunch of noobs that wonders around aimlessly is enjoyable? Watching back to those old watever V-god or mym replays really shows how terrible the quality of the players back then.. Any third rate teams nowadays can easily own them np.
战争的艺术？是死于愚蠢的gank的艺术吧？观看你最喜欢的队伍到处乱窜，虐一帮菜B很有趣是吧？看看那些很久以前的老录像，不管是V神还是MYM的，他们的技术和现在比起来简直差的要命··任何一支现在的三流队伍都能轻易虐死他们。
19楼Naroblas：
if you've only seen nv.cn and ehome then I guess you haven't seen much chinese replays, you've seen them but not lgd.sgty, the best team out of these 3 in terms of gank/early game dominance?
引用“亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。·····”
如果你只看过Nv.cn和Ehome的比赛，那我猜你还没有看过很多中国比赛的录像，你还没看过LGD.sgty，这支中国最好的gank队伍，他们在游戏前期就能取得决定性的优势。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/3180.html
关于中国DOTA打法的一些讨论
Something about chinese dota gameplay
作者:Katherine 发布日期:2011-10-16 14:40:19 浏览:6393
译文简介:在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。译文来源:原文链接:http://www.playdota.com/forums/4 ... nese-dota-gameplay/
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处正文翻译: 楼主JohannDesu
hey guys... sorry for the english im filipino.
based on my observations since i watch that MUCH chinese competitive gameplay... that chinese are only those type of gamers that farms and isn't aggressive.. watch some of their games i knew that whenever they get ganked they just go back and then later on they either countergank them or escape them then go back to farming...
I MEAN come on look at zsmj for example he nearly does not contribute in early game teamfights. he just sits there and farms but later on he is the one carrying the team. ehome didnt want him to farm but they did let him farm and they payed for it.in their game in LGD.sGty vs. Ehome it looks like they only give the farm/creeps to ONE.... YES ONE carry! and its ZSMJ.
嗨~大伙儿~我的英文不是很好，我是菲律宾人。
在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。
（译者注：gank和farm是DOTA里的游戏术语，gank就是抓人击杀，farm就是刷兵打钱。）
来看看ZSMJ吧，在游戏初期，他几乎对团战没有任何贡献。他就是在那一个人farm，但是之后他要扛起整个队伍核心的重任。Ehome不想让他farm，可又没有办法阻止他，于是最后付出了代价。
在LGD.sGty vs. Ehome这场比赛里，看上去他们（LGD.sGty）只把farm的位置留给了一个人，是的，只有一个carry，他就是ZSMJ.（译者注: ZSMJ:他是效力于中国知名dota战队LGD的电子竞技职业选手。前LGD战队的队长；Ehome: 知名中国DOTA电子竞技俱乐部；Carry： 在Dota类游戏中作为战术核心的英雄，比如dota速推战术中的遗忘法师，四保一战术中的幽鬼等。）
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
评论翻译: 1楼Whitefang：
Maybe they are farm type but lets not forget they are also good at ganking and anything which is why they always won the game.
也许他们天生就是farm型选手，但是别忘了，他们同样善于gank，这也是为什么他们总是赢得胜利的原因。
2楼God of Death:
Really? I never noticed...
Must be the new Asian meta game. I wonder what the others do, gank?
真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?
3楼JohannDesu：sarcasm??
but still they rice farm really hard and sometimes does not gank.
@whitefang
yes they are good at ganking but most of the times they are farming. i dunno but i think this is another gameplay from the chinese instead of ganking mad
引用“真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?”
你在讽刺？
但是他们仍然farm得非常努力，有时候也不gank。
回复whitefang
是的他们善于gank，但是大多数时候他们在farm，我不确定但是我认为这是中国选手用来取代疯狂gank型打法的另一种风格。
4楼pilz：
Effective but boring to watch?
很有效的打法，可是看的人会觉得很无聊？
5楼God of Death：
Yes. It's been quite the staple playstyle for a while. In fact, it's a stereotype by now.
Azn Ricers.
EU Gankers.
Etc.
引用“你在讽刺？”
是的，这已经成了一种常见的打法风格了。事实上，现在这都快成为一种成见了。
亚洲打钱狂
欧洲gank狂
诸如此类。
6楼dronza_01：
I Think only one player farms is Ok as long as the other team member gank/ push the other lane. It is the carries job to get fat and rape the other team when he got his items.
我想只用一个选手farm已经够了，其他队友可以参与gank或者推线。
Carry们的作用就是把自己养肥，然后神装虐对面。
7楼red_4900：
Taken from another thread :
Players and viewers often speak of a "Chinese/Asian style" and "European style" as if different continents lean toward different playstyles. As poster boys for what many consider to be the pinnacle of the European style, what is your take on this perception, and why does it exist?
“Well, I think it's a psychological thing. People like to identify themselves with somebody, or at least something, and European style being "more agressive", or so they say, makes them proud. Europeans can hardly identify themselves with Asians, it's simply harder to imagine. Anyway, long story short, Europeans tend to play with much more mistakes, that's why it appears to be more aggressive.
In reality, the quality of the average game is lower, hence the "agressiveness". If the quality of a game rises, people play more carefully, make less mistakes etc., so the game will seem slower. Although it's a better game, it's hard to appreciate it, as the normal viewer doesn't really care about that.
Personally, I enjoy watching both, but I wouldn't watch too many mid quality replays. In the end I do prefer slow paced but high quality games, but honestly I'm not a fan watching replays *smiles*, I just do it for analyzing a team I play against, or sometimes I'll watch a livestream of 2 good teams playing.”
Does this explains why Asian scene seems focused on more ricing and less ganking?
Asian players are great at ganking, they would not gank just for the sake of it. They will only gank when they are sure they will win the proceeding battle.
从别的帖子转的：
“选手们和观众常常提起‘中国/亚洲式风格’和‘欧洲风格’，好像不同的大洲导致了不同的打法风格。”，就像楼主一样，有很多人认为欧洲风格要高一档次，到底是什么让你们有了这样的观点，为什么？”
“好吧，我认为这是一种心理作用。人们喜欢用一些人或者东西去定位自身，欧洲风格一直是‘更具进攻性的’，他们这么说，就会沾沾自喜。欧洲人很难用亚洲人的想法去定位自己，仅仅是由于难以想象。不管怎么样，长话短说，欧洲人倾向于带着更多的失误去打比赛，这也让他们看上去很有进攻性。
在现实中，由于这些‘进攻性’，比赛的平均质量变得更低。如果比赛质量提升了，选手们玩得时候更加小心谨慎，犯更少的错误等等，那么游戏速度就会变得更慢。就算这是一场更好的比赛，却更难被人赞赏，因为普通观众根本不关心这些。
就我自己而言，我两种风格都喜欢，但我不会看太多中等水平的比赛录像。最后我还是要倾向于慢节奏高质量的比赛，可是老实说我并不是一个看录像狂人，（笑~）我看录像只是为了分析我的对手，或者有时候看看两个强队的现场比赛。”
上面这段转贴是否可以解释为什么亚洲选手更注重farm，而不怎么gank呢？
亚洲选手善于gank，但他们不会为了gank而gank，他们只会在确信这将帮助比赛取得胜利的时候进行gank.
8楼KoR.zERo.DVL：
Asians are magnificent gankers.
The only thing that people notice is their carry that is why they say its boring.
亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。
9楼alwaysgorandom：
sigh. another one of these threads?
they´re just as bad as the "QQ new hero threads".
Honestly: who gives a fucK?!?!
唉，又是这样的帖子，就好像那种“又出新英雄了~”的帖子一样无趣，说实话，谁在乎啊？！
10楼Naroblas：
when ehome/sgty are fighting against eachother, it very often lasts more than 70min and do you know why? because they are 2 of the top 3 teams in china and they don't bother ganking them anymore simply because it's too hard so they pick the stronger carry, farm all game and hope to win teamfights.
go watch games where ehome/sgty fight other teams, non-chinese teams, watch eswc and smm games and tell me they can't/don't play aggressive.
当Ehome和LGD打的时候，常常会拖到70分钟以上，你知道是为啥吗？因为他们是中国最顶尖的两只队伍，他们不再会陷于无尽的gank中，仅仅因为这实在是太难了，所以他们选择了强力的carry，farm整场比赛，希望以此赢得团战。
去看看Ehome和LGD对抗别的队伍，特别是非中国队伍的比赛吧，像是ESWC和SMM这类的，然后再来和我说他们打得有没有进攻性。（译者注：ESWC，即Electronic Sport World Cup（电子竞技世界杯）；SMM是一项在DotA各大赛事中为奖金最为丰厚的赛事。）
11楼ALcawN：
they're too asian to see anything but the creep hp bars from their eyes
他们farm得已经到了双眼只剩野怪血条的地步了。
12楼1234567YYF：
The Chinese just have such a deep understanding of the game they go whatever is best to victory. Which is, farm safe, then own.
Should dota ever change to become a game where even fail ganks like what LDHL is showing prove to be more rewarding than farm, then you will see every Chinese players becoming a V-god and ganking 24/7.
中国人对这个游戏有着如此深刻的理解，他们的战术就是安全地farm，然后取得胜利，这让他们百战百胜。
如果DOTA变成一个就算gank失败仍然可以得到比farm更大的利益的游戏时，就像LDHL 里的录像一样，那么你就会看到每一个中国选手都变成了V神然后每场24杀7死。（译者注：LDHL(LOST DotA Highlevel League )DOTA联赛；V神：原文使用V-god，是指一位著名的DOTA选手vigoss，他善于gank，打法凶悍，被众多国内外DotA玩家追捧为Gank之王）
13楼Nizaris：
it is the art of war....that is, and i quote
WAR IS MONEY
Edit : you have more money in your pocket, you have experience, then you don't fear any battle.
know yourself and know your enemy, you will not loose in 100 battles...if you know yourself but don't know your enemy or you know the enemy but don't know yourself, you win half loose half, if you don't know both yourself and the enemy, you forever be in peril...sun tzu say...
这就是战争的艺术，就像我所引用的一样：战争既是金钱。
如果你有更多的钱在你口袋里，你有胜利的经验，那你就不会害怕任何战争。
知己知彼，百战不殆；不知彼而知己，一胜一负；不知彼，不知己，每战必殆。这是孙子说的。
14楼 teng)：
In current/previous metagame, gank is useless. You can't stop 1 or 2 carries by ganking.
Ganking = waste time/exp/gold and let another carry in the other lane free farm when you failed. Wards, trilane, TP, ultimate babysitter/supporter. It's not easy to kill their carry even you outnumber the opponents in 4v3 or 5v3.
Why waste time ganking while you can't win the game with it??? Woah! gank 24/7 and the game looks fun! Too much pubs?
EHOME was king because they know gank in shit, when they play against a team that not at the same level with them, they will gank and the game will looks like a pubstomp.
There is only Turtle or Pushing in DotA, there is no a strategy name gank (keep on 5 man team battle and see who gank better?)
在以往的正规比赛中，gank的作用很小，你不能通过gank来限制对面的一两个carry。
Gank等于浪费时间/经验/金钱并让对方别的carry在另一条线上自由打钱到你们输掉为止。
塔，三条线，回城卷以及无数的奶妈和支援让杀死他们的carry变得异常艰难，就算你在数量上比他们多一两个也没用。
为什么要在gank帮助不了你取得胜利的时候还去gank呢？哇喔~！24个人头，比赛精彩极了！这样？球赛酒吧泡多了吧你！
Ehome之所以能成为王者是因为他们知道gank就是坨屎，只有当他们和一支不在同一水平的队伍比赛时，他们才会gank，让这场比赛看上去更有趣些。
在dota里，只有龟缩和推进两种战术，从来没有一种战术叫gank（5人团战里看谁gank得更好？）
15楼gobo：
what a basic misunderstanding.
they are not farm oriented. they just can do it better than most others.
they are not ricing, they are timing pushing with items. it's the skill of their mates that allows them to do that.
you really should watch the latest commentary of 2009 on a Nv.cn vs Scythe game.
basic idea is: don't do stupid things. many teams still didn't get that.
真是低级的误解。
他们不是生来就爱farm，他们只是可以把这做的比大多数人都好。
他们不是在无限打野，他们只是在累积装备。是靠他们队友的技术才使得他们有空间去这样做。
你真的应该看看2009年那场Nv.cn vs Scythe的比赛。
最基本的道理是：别做蠢事。许多队伍至今仍然不懂这个道理。
16楼：nico8691
china players have more map warness, i knowledge, so you can't gank zsmj easily, they are the best gankers, but they can't gank diving the tower while 2 supports are protecting the carry, so they stay farming, and ganking just when it's viable
据我所知，中国选手拥有更好的地图意识。所以你不能轻易地gank 到ZSMJ，他们是最好的gank者，但是他们无法在有两个队友保着carry的情况下还在对方塔下杀人，所以他们选择了farm，然后再在适当的时候gank。
17楼WickeDD：
Asians are total shit at ganking. Every time ive seen an asian team (Nv.cn/Ehome) try to pull off a gank push strat they fail miserably.
They can only turtle.
In the previous metagame where people didnt think creative enough Ehome won ESWC and right now MYM is king with gank/push strategies.
引用“亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。”
亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。
他们只能龟缩。
在过去的正式比赛里，人们觉得Ehome的创造性不足以让他们赢得ESWC的想法是对的。现在MYM才是gank和推进流的王者。（译者注：MYM是一个世界闻名的专业电子竞技俱乐部，拥有世界各地的的顶级竞技选手。MYM总部设在丹麦歌本哈根市，在德国设有子公司，该战队由Esports I/S公司所拥有。）
18楼lixiaolu：
The art of not dying to stupid ganks? Seriously, watching yr favourite team rape a bunch of noobs that wonders around aimlessly is enjoyable? Watching back to those old watever V-god or mym replays really shows how terrible the quality of the players back then.. Any third rate teams nowadays can easily own them np.
战争的艺术？是死于愚蠢的gank的艺术吧？观看你最喜欢的队伍到处乱窜，虐一帮菜B很有趣是吧？看看那些很久以前的老录像，不管是V神还是MYM的，他们的技术和现在比起来简直差的要命··任何一支现在的三流队伍都能轻易虐死他们。
19楼Naroblas：
if you've only seen nv.cn and ehome then I guess you haven't seen much chinese replays, you've seen them but not lgd.sgty, the best team out of these 3 in terms of gank/early game dominance?
引用“亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。·····”
如果你只看过Nv.cn和Ehome的比赛，那我猜你还没有看过很多中国比赛的录像，你还没看过LGD.sgty，这支中国最好的gank队伍，他们在游戏前期就能取得决定性的优势。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
关于中国DOTA打法的一些讨论
Something about chinese dota gameplay
作者:Katherine 发布日期:2011-10-16 14:40:19 浏览:6393
译文简介:在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。译文来源:原文链接:http://www.playdota.com/forums/4 ... nese-dota-gameplay/
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处正文翻译: 楼主JohannDesu
hey guys... sorry for the english im filipino.
based on my observations since i watch that MUCH chinese competitive gameplay... that chinese are only those type of gamers that farms and isn't aggressive.. watch some of their games i knew that whenever they get ganked they just go back and then later on they either countergank them or escape them then go back to farming...
I MEAN come on look at zsmj for example he nearly does not contribute in early game teamfights. he just sits there and farms but later on he is the one carrying the team. ehome didnt want him to farm but they did let him farm and they payed for it.in their game in LGD.sGty vs. Ehome it looks like they only give the farm/creeps to ONE.... YES ONE carry! and its ZSMJ.
嗨~大伙儿~我的英文不是很好，我是菲律宾人。
在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。
（译者注：gank和farm是DOTA里的游戏术语，gank就是抓人击杀，farm就是刷兵打钱。）
来看看ZSMJ吧，在游戏初期，他几乎对团战没有任何贡献。他就是在那一个人farm，但是之后他要扛起整个队伍核心的重任。Ehome不想让他farm，可又没有办法阻止他，于是最后付出了代价。
在LGD.sGty vs. Ehome这场比赛里，看上去他们（LGD.sGty）只把farm的位置留给了一个人，是的，只有一个carry，他就是ZSMJ.（译者注: ZSMJ:他是效力于中国知名dota战队LGD的电子竞技职业选手。前LGD战队的队长；Ehome: 知名中国DOTA电子竞技俱乐部；Carry： 在Dota类游戏中作为战术核心的英雄，比如dota速推战术中的遗忘法师，四保一战术中的幽鬼等。）
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
评论翻译: 1楼Whitefang：
Maybe they are farm type but lets not forget they are also good at ganking and anything which is why they always won the game.
也许他们天生就是farm型选手，但是别忘了，他们同样善于gank，这也是为什么他们总是赢得胜利的原因。
2楼God of Death:
Really? I never noticed...
Must be the new Asian meta game. I wonder what the others do, gank?
真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?
3楼JohannDesu：sarcasm??
but still they rice farm really hard and sometimes does not gank.
@whitefang
yes they are good at ganking but most of the times they are farming. i dunno but i think this is another gameplay from the chinese instead of ganking mad
引用“真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?”
你在讽刺？
但是他们仍然farm得非常努力，有时候也不gank。
回复whitefang
是的他们善于gank，但是大多数时候他们在farm，我不确定但是我认为这是中国选手用来取代疯狂gank型打法的另一种风格。
4楼pilz：
Effective but boring to watch?
很有效的打法，可是看的人会觉得很无聊？
5楼God of Death：
Yes. It's been quite the staple playstyle for a while. In fact, it's a stereotype by now.
Azn Ricers.
EU Gankers.
Etc.
引用“你在讽刺？”
是的，这已经成了一种常见的打法风格了。事实上，现在这都快成为一种成见了。
亚洲打钱狂
欧洲gank狂
诸如此类。
6楼dronza_01：
I Think only one player farms is Ok as long as the other team member gank/ push the other lane. It is the carries job to get fat and rape the other team when he got his items.
我想只用一个选手farm已经够了，其他队友可以参与gank或者推线。
Carry们的作用就是把自己养肥，然后神装虐对面。
7楼red_4900：
Taken from another thread :
Players and viewers often speak of a "Chinese/Asian style" and "European style" as if different continents lean toward different playstyles. As poster boys for what many consider to be the pinnacle of the European style, what is your take on this perception, and why does it exist?
“Well, I think it's a psychological thing. People like to identify themselves with somebody, or at least something, and European style being "more agressive", or so they say, makes them proud. Europeans can hardly identify themselves with Asians, it's simply harder to imagine. Anyway, long story short, Europeans tend to play with much more mistakes, that's why it appears to be more aggressive.
In reality, the quality of the average game is lower, hence the "agressiveness". If the quality of a game rises, people play more carefully, make less mistakes etc., so the game will seem slower. Although it's a better game, it's hard to appreciate it, as the normal viewer doesn't really care about that.
Personally, I enjoy watching both, but I wouldn't watch too many mid quality replays. In the end I do prefer slow paced but high quality games, but honestly I'm not a fan watching replays *smiles*, I just do it for analyzing a team I play against, or sometimes I'll watch a livestream of 2 good teams playing.”
Does this explains why Asian scene seems focused on more ricing and less ganking?
Asian players are great at ganking, they would not gank just for the sake of it. They will only gank when they are sure they will win the proceeding battle.
从别的帖子转的：
“选手们和观众常常提起‘中国/亚洲式风格’和‘欧洲风格’，好像不同的大洲导致了不同的打法风格。”，就像楼主一样，有很多人认为欧洲风格要高一档次，到底是什么让你们有了这样的观点，为什么？”
“好吧，我认为这是一种心理作用。人们喜欢用一些人或者东西去定位自身，欧洲风格一直是‘更具进攻性的’，他们这么说，就会沾沾自喜。欧洲人很难用亚洲人的想法去定位自己，仅仅是由于难以想象。不管怎么样，长话短说，欧洲人倾向于带着更多的失误去打比赛，这也让他们看上去很有进攻性。
在现实中，由于这些‘进攻性’，比赛的平均质量变得更低。如果比赛质量提升了，选手们玩得时候更加小心谨慎，犯更少的错误等等，那么游戏速度就会变得更慢。就算这是一场更好的比赛，却更难被人赞赏，因为普通观众根本不关心这些。
就我自己而言，我两种风格都喜欢，但我不会看太多中等水平的比赛录像。最后我还是要倾向于慢节奏高质量的比赛，可是老实说我并不是一个看录像狂人，（笑~）我看录像只是为了分析我的对手，或者有时候看看两个强队的现场比赛。”
上面这段转贴是否可以解释为什么亚洲选手更注重farm，而不怎么gank呢？
亚洲选手善于gank，但他们不会为了gank而gank，他们只会在确信这将帮助比赛取得胜利的时候进行gank.
8楼KoR.zERo.DVL：
Asians are magnificent gankers.
The only thing that people notice is their carry that is why they say its boring.
亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。
9楼alwaysgorandom：
sigh. another one of these threads?
they´re just as bad as the "QQ new hero threads".
Honestly: who gives a fucK?!?!
唉，又是这样的帖子，就好像那种“又出新英雄了~”的帖子一样无趣，说实话，谁在乎啊？！
10楼Naroblas：
when ehome/sgty are fighting against eachother, it very often lasts more than 70min and do you know why? because they are 2 of the top 3 teams in china and they don't bother ganking them anymore simply because it's too hard so they pick the stronger carry, farm all game and hope to win teamfights.
go watch games where ehome/sgty fight other teams, non-chinese teams, watch eswc and smm games and tell me they can't/don't play aggressive.
当Ehome和LGD打的时候，常常会拖到70分钟以上，你知道是为啥吗？因为他们是中国最顶尖的两只队伍，他们不再会陷于无尽的gank中，仅仅因为这实在是太难了，所以他们选择了强力的carry，farm整场比赛，希望以此赢得团战。
去看看Ehome和LGD对抗别的队伍，特别是非中国队伍的比赛吧，像是ESWC和SMM这类的，然后再来和我说他们打得有没有进攻性。（译者注：ESWC，即Electronic Sport World Cup（电子竞技世界杯）；SMM是一项在DotA各大赛事中为奖金最为丰厚的赛事。）
11楼ALcawN：
they're too asian to see anything but the creep hp bars from their eyes
他们farm得已经到了双眼只剩野怪血条的地步了。
12楼1234567YYF：
The Chinese just have such a deep understanding of the game they go whatever is best to victory. Which is, farm safe, then own.
Should dota ever change to become a game where even fail ganks like what LDHL is showing prove to be more rewarding than farm, then you will see every Chinese players becoming a V-god and ganking 24/7.
中国人对这个游戏有着如此深刻的理解，他们的战术就是安全地farm，然后取得胜利，这让他们百战百胜。
如果DOTA变成一个就算gank失败仍然可以得到比farm更大的利益的游戏时，就像LDHL 里的录像一样，那么你就会看到每一个中国选手都变成了V神然后每场24杀7死。（译者注：LDHL(LOST DotA Highlevel League )DOTA联赛；V神：原文使用V-god，是指一位著名的DOTA选手vigoss，他善于gank，打法凶悍，被众多国内外DotA玩家追捧为Gank之王）
13楼Nizaris：
it is the art of war....that is, and i quote
WAR IS MONEY
Edit : you have more money in your pocket, you have experience, then you don't fear any battle.
know yourself and know your enemy, you will not loose in 100 battles...if you know yourself but don't know your enemy or you know the enemy but don't know yourself, you win half loose half, if you don't know both yourself and the enemy, you forever be in peril...sun tzu say...
这就是战争的艺术，就像我所引用的一样：战争既是金钱。
如果你有更多的钱在你口袋里，你有胜利的经验，那你就不会害怕任何战争。
知己知彼，百战不殆；不知彼而知己，一胜一负；不知彼，不知己，每战必殆。这是孙子说的。
14楼 teng)：
In current/previous metagame, gank is useless. You can't stop 1 or 2 carries by ganking.
Ganking = waste time/exp/gold and let another carry in the other lane free farm when you failed. Wards, trilane, TP, ultimate babysitter/supporter. It's not easy to kill their carry even you outnumber the opponents in 4v3 or 5v3.
Why waste time ganking while you can't win the game with it??? Woah! gank 24/7 and the game looks fun! Too much pubs?
EHOME was king because they know gank in shit, when they play against a team that not at the same level with them, they will gank and the game will looks like a pubstomp.
There is only Turtle or Pushing in DotA, there is no a strategy name gank (keep on 5 man team battle and see who gank better?)
在以往的正规比赛中，gank的作用很小，你不能通过gank来限制对面的一两个carry。
Gank等于浪费时间/经验/金钱并让对方别的carry在另一条线上自由打钱到你们输掉为止。
塔，三条线，回城卷以及无数的奶妈和支援让杀死他们的carry变得异常艰难，就算你在数量上比他们多一两个也没用。
为什么要在gank帮助不了你取得胜利的时候还去gank呢？哇喔~！24个人头，比赛精彩极了！这样？球赛酒吧泡多了吧你！
Ehome之所以能成为王者是因为他们知道gank就是坨屎，只有当他们和一支不在同一水平的队伍比赛时，他们才会gank，让这场比赛看上去更有趣些。
在dota里，只有龟缩和推进两种战术，从来没有一种战术叫gank（5人团战里看谁gank得更好？）
15楼gobo：
what a basic misunderstanding.
they are not farm oriented. they just can do it better than most others.
they are not ricing, they are timing pushing with items. it's the skill of their mates that allows them to do that.
you really should watch the latest commentary of 2009 on a Nv.cn vs Scythe game.
basic idea is: don't do stupid things. many teams still didn't get that.
真是低级的误解。
他们不是生来就爱farm，他们只是可以把这做的比大多数人都好。
他们不是在无限打野，他们只是在累积装备。是靠他们队友的技术才使得他们有空间去这样做。
你真的应该看看2009年那场Nv.cn vs Scythe的比赛。
最基本的道理是：别做蠢事。许多队伍至今仍然不懂这个道理。
16楼：nico8691
china players have more map warness, i knowledge, so you can't gank zsmj easily, they are the best gankers, but they can't gank diving the tower while 2 supports are protecting the carry, so they stay farming, and ganking just when it's viable
据我所知，中国选手拥有更好的地图意识。所以你不能轻易地gank 到ZSMJ，他们是最好的gank者，但是他们无法在有两个队友保着carry的情况下还在对方塔下杀人，所以他们选择了farm，然后再在适当的时候gank。
17楼WickeDD：
Asians are total shit at ganking. Every time ive seen an asian team (Nv.cn/Ehome) try to pull off a gank push strat they fail miserably.
They can only turtle.
In the previous metagame where people didnt think creative enough Ehome won ESWC and right now MYM is king with gank/push strategies.
引用“亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。”
亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。
他们只能龟缩。
在过去的正式比赛里，人们觉得Ehome的创造性不足以让他们赢得ESWC的想法是对的。现在MYM才是gank和推进流的王者。（译者注：MYM是一个世界闻名的专业电子竞技俱乐部，拥有世界各地的的顶级竞技选手。MYM总部设在丹麦歌本哈根市，在德国设有子公司，该战队由Esports I/S公司所拥有。）
18楼lixiaolu：
The art of not dying to stupid ganks? Seriously, watching yr favourite team rape a bunch of noobs that wonders around aimlessly is enjoyable? Watching back to those old watever V-god or mym replays really shows how terrible the quality of the players back then.. Any third rate teams nowadays can easily own them np.
战争的艺术？是死于愚蠢的gank的艺术吧？观看你最喜欢的队伍到处乱窜，虐一帮菜B很有趣是吧？看看那些很久以前的老录像，不管是V神还是MYM的，他们的技术和现在比起来简直差的要命··任何一支现在的三流队伍都能轻易虐死他们。
19楼Naroblas：
if you've only seen nv.cn and ehome then I guess you haven't seen much chinese replays, you've seen them but not lgd.sgty, the best team out of these 3 in terms of gank/early game dominance?
引用“亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。·····”
如果你只看过Nv.cn和Ehome的比赛，那我猜你还没有看过很多中国比赛的录像，你还没看过LGD.sgty，这支中国最好的gank队伍，他们在游戏前期就能取得决定性的优势。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/3180.html
关于中国DOTA打法的一些讨论
Something about chinese dota gameplay
作者:Katherine 发布日期:2011-10-16 14:40:19 浏览:6393
译文简介:在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。译文来源:原文链接:http://www.playdota.com/forums/4 ... nese-dota-gameplay/
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处正文翻译: 楼主JohannDesu
hey guys... sorry for the english im filipino.
based on my observations since i watch that MUCH chinese competitive gameplay... that chinese are only those type of gamers that farms and isn't aggressive.. watch some of their games i knew that whenever they get ganked they just go back and then later on they either countergank them or escape them then go back to farming...
I MEAN come on look at zsmj for example he nearly does not contribute in early game teamfights. he just sits there and farms but later on he is the one carrying the team. ehome didnt want him to farm but they did let him farm and they payed for it.in their game in LGD.sGty vs. Ehome it looks like they only give the farm/creeps to ONE.... YES ONE carry! and its ZSMJ.
嗨~大伙儿~我的英文不是很好，我是菲律宾人。
在我看了很多中国dota选手的比赛后，根据我的观察，中国人更倾向于farm型打法，而不是很有进攻性。看了他们的一些比赛，我发现不管他们有没有被gank，他们都在farm，要是被gank了，他们会反gank一下，或者逃跑掉，然后回到原来的位置继续farm。
（译者注：gank和farm是DOTA里的游戏术语，gank就是抓人击杀，farm就是刷兵打钱。）
来看看ZSMJ吧，在游戏初期，他几乎对团战没有任何贡献。他就是在那一个人farm，但是之后他要扛起整个队伍核心的重任。Ehome不想让他farm，可又没有办法阻止他，于是最后付出了代价。
在LGD.sGty vs. Ehome这场比赛里，看上去他们（LGD.sGty）只把farm的位置留给了一个人，是的，只有一个carry，他就是ZSMJ.（译者注: ZSMJ:他是效力于中国知名dota战队LGD的电子竞技职业选手。前LGD战队的队长；Ehome: 知名中国DOTA电子竞技俱乐部；Carry： 在Dota类游戏中作为战术核心的英雄，比如dota速推战术中的遗忘法师，四保一战术中的幽鬼等。）
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处
评论翻译: 1楼Whitefang：
Maybe they are farm type but lets not forget they are also good at ganking and anything which is why they always won the game.
也许他们天生就是farm型选手，但是别忘了，他们同样善于gank，这也是为什么他们总是赢得胜利的原因。
2楼God of Death:
Really? I never noticed...
Must be the new Asian meta game. I wonder what the others do, gank?
真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?
3楼JohannDesu：sarcasm??
but still they rice farm really hard and sometimes does not gank.
@whitefang
yes they are good at ganking but most of the times they are farming. i dunno but i think this is another gameplay from the chinese instead of ganking mad
引用“真的吗?我从来没意识到···
这一定是新的亚洲风格，不知道其他人同时在做什么,gank?”
你在讽刺？
但是他们仍然farm得非常努力，有时候也不gank。
回复whitefang
是的他们善于gank，但是大多数时候他们在farm，我不确定但是我认为这是中国选手用来取代疯狂gank型打法的另一种风格。
4楼pilz：
Effective but boring to watch?
很有效的打法，可是看的人会觉得很无聊？
5楼God of Death：
Yes. It's been quite the staple playstyle for a while. In fact, it's a stereotype by now.
Azn Ricers.
EU Gankers.
Etc.
引用“你在讽刺？”
是的，这已经成了一种常见的打法风格了。事实上，现在这都快成为一种成见了。
亚洲打钱狂
欧洲gank狂
诸如此类。
6楼dronza_01：
I Think only one player farms is Ok as long as the other team member gank/ push the other lane. It is the carries job to get fat and rape the other team when he got his items.
我想只用一个选手farm已经够了，其他队友可以参与gank或者推线。
Carry们的作用就是把自己养肥，然后神装虐对面。
7楼red_4900：
Taken from another thread :
Players and viewers often speak of a "Chinese/Asian style" and "European style" as if different continents lean toward different playstyles. As poster boys for what many consider to be the pinnacle of the European style, what is your take on this perception, and why does it exist?
“Well, I think it's a psychological thing. People like to identify themselves with somebody, or at least something, and European style being "more agressive", or so they say, makes them proud. Europeans can hardly identify themselves with Asians, it's simply harder to imagine. Anyway, long story short, Europeans tend to play with much more mistakes, that's why it appears to be more aggressive.
In reality, the quality of the average game is lower, hence the "agressiveness". If the quality of a game rises, people play more carefully, make less mistakes etc., so the game will seem slower. Although it's a better game, it's hard to appreciate it, as the normal viewer doesn't really care about that.
Personally, I enjoy watching both, but I wouldn't watch too many mid quality replays. In the end I do prefer slow paced but high quality games, but honestly I'm not a fan watching replays *smiles*, I just do it for analyzing a team I play against, or sometimes I'll watch a livestream of 2 good teams playing.”
Does this explains why Asian scene seems focused on more ricing and less ganking?
Asian players are great at ganking, they would not gank just for the sake of it. They will only gank when they are sure they will win the proceeding battle.
从别的帖子转的：
“选手们和观众常常提起‘中国/亚洲式风格’和‘欧洲风格’，好像不同的大洲导致了不同的打法风格。”，就像楼主一样，有很多人认为欧洲风格要高一档次，到底是什么让你们有了这样的观点，为什么？”
“好吧，我认为这是一种心理作用。人们喜欢用一些人或者东西去定位自身，欧洲风格一直是‘更具进攻性的’，他们这么说，就会沾沾自喜。欧洲人很难用亚洲人的想法去定位自己，仅仅是由于难以想象。不管怎么样，长话短说，欧洲人倾向于带着更多的失误去打比赛，这也让他们看上去很有进攻性。
在现实中，由于这些‘进攻性’，比赛的平均质量变得更低。如果比赛质量提升了，选手们玩得时候更加小心谨慎，犯更少的错误等等，那么游戏速度就会变得更慢。就算这是一场更好的比赛，却更难被人赞赏，因为普通观众根本不关心这些。
就我自己而言，我两种风格都喜欢，但我不会看太多中等水平的比赛录像。最后我还是要倾向于慢节奏高质量的比赛，可是老实说我并不是一个看录像狂人，（笑~）我看录像只是为了分析我的对手，或者有时候看看两个强队的现场比赛。”
上面这段转贴是否可以解释为什么亚洲选手更注重farm，而不怎么gank呢？
亚洲选手善于gank，但他们不会为了gank而gank，他们只会在确信这将帮助比赛取得胜利的时候进行gank.
8楼KoR.zERo.DVL：
Asians are magnificent gankers.
The only thing that people notice is their carry that is why they say its boring.
亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。
9楼alwaysgorandom：
sigh. another one of these threads?
they´re just as bad as the "QQ new hero threads".
Honestly: who gives a fucK?!?!
唉，又是这样的帖子，就好像那种“又出新英雄了~”的帖子一样无趣，说实话，谁在乎啊？！
10楼Naroblas：
when ehome/sgty are fighting against eachother, it very often lasts more than 70min and do you know why? because they are 2 of the top 3 teams in china and they don't bother ganking them anymore simply because it's too hard so they pick the stronger carry, farm all game and hope to win teamfights.
go watch games where ehome/sgty fight other teams, non-chinese teams, watch eswc and smm games and tell me they can't/don't play aggressive.
当Ehome和LGD打的时候，常常会拖到70分钟以上，你知道是为啥吗？因为他们是中国最顶尖的两只队伍，他们不再会陷于无尽的gank中，仅仅因为这实在是太难了，所以他们选择了强力的carry，farm整场比赛，希望以此赢得团战。
去看看Ehome和LGD对抗别的队伍，特别是非中国队伍的比赛吧，像是ESWC和SMM这类的，然后再来和我说他们打得有没有进攻性。（译者注：ESWC，即Electronic Sport World Cup（电子竞技世界杯）；SMM是一项在DotA各大赛事中为奖金最为丰厚的赛事。）
11楼ALcawN：
they're too asian to see anything but the creep hp bars from their eyes
他们farm得已经到了双眼只剩野怪血条的地步了。
12楼1234567YYF：
The Chinese just have such a deep understanding of the game they go whatever is best to victory. Which is, farm safe, then own.
Should dota ever change to become a game where even fail ganks like what LDHL is showing prove to be more rewarding than farm, then you will see every Chinese players becoming a V-god and ganking 24/7.
中国人对这个游戏有着如此深刻的理解，他们的战术就是安全地farm，然后取得胜利，这让他们百战百胜。
如果DOTA变成一个就算gank失败仍然可以得到比farm更大的利益的游戏时，就像LDHL 里的录像一样，那么你就会看到每一个中国选手都变成了V神然后每场24杀7死。（译者注：LDHL(LOST DotA Highlevel League )DOTA联赛；V神：原文使用V-god，是指一位著名的DOTA选手vigoss，他善于gank，打法凶悍，被众多国内外DotA玩家追捧为Gank之王）
13楼Nizaris：
it is the art of war....that is, and i quote
WAR IS MONEY
Edit : you have more money in your pocket, you have experience, then you don't fear any battle.
know yourself and know your enemy, you will not loose in 100 battles...if you know yourself but don't know your enemy or you know the enemy but don't know yourself, you win half loose half, if you don't know both yourself and the enemy, you forever be in peril...sun tzu say...
这就是战争的艺术，就像我所引用的一样：战争既是金钱。
如果你有更多的钱在你口袋里，你有胜利的经验，那你就不会害怕任何战争。
知己知彼，百战不殆；不知彼而知己，一胜一负；不知彼，不知己，每战必殆。这是孙子说的。
14楼 teng)：
In current/previous metagame, gank is useless. You can't stop 1 or 2 carries by ganking.
Ganking = waste time/exp/gold and let another carry in the other lane free farm when you failed. Wards, trilane, TP, ultimate babysitter/supporter. It's not easy to kill their carry even you outnumber the opponents in 4v3 or 5v3.
Why waste time ganking while you can't win the game with it??? Woah! gank 24/7 and the game looks fun! Too much pubs?
EHOME was king because they know gank in shit, when they play against a team that not at the same level with them, they will gank and the game will looks like a pubstomp.
There is only Turtle or Pushing in DotA, there is no a strategy name gank (keep on 5 man team battle and see who gank better?)
在以往的正规比赛中，gank的作用很小，你不能通过gank来限制对面的一两个carry。
Gank等于浪费时间/经验/金钱并让对方别的carry在另一条线上自由打钱到你们输掉为止。
塔，三条线，回城卷以及无数的奶妈和支援让杀死他们的carry变得异常艰难，就算你在数量上比他们多一两个也没用。
为什么要在gank帮助不了你取得胜利的时候还去gank呢？哇喔~！24个人头，比赛精彩极了！这样？球赛酒吧泡多了吧你！
Ehome之所以能成为王者是因为他们知道gank就是坨屎，只有当他们和一支不在同一水平的队伍比赛时，他们才会gank，让这场比赛看上去更有趣些。
在dota里，只有龟缩和推进两种战术，从来没有一种战术叫gank（5人团战里看谁gank得更好？）
15楼gobo：
what a basic misunderstanding.
they are not farm oriented. they just can do it better than most others.
they are not ricing, they are timing pushing with items. it's the skill of their mates that allows them to do that.
you really should watch the latest commentary of 2009 on a Nv.cn vs Scythe game.
basic idea is: don't do stupid things. many teams still didn't get that.
真是低级的误解。
他们不是生来就爱farm，他们只是可以把这做的比大多数人都好。
他们不是在无限打野，他们只是在累积装备。是靠他们队友的技术才使得他们有空间去这样做。
你真的应该看看2009年那场Nv.cn vs Scythe的比赛。
最基本的道理是：别做蠢事。许多队伍至今仍然不懂这个道理。
16楼：nico8691
china players have more map warness, i knowledge, so you can't gank zsmj easily, they are the best gankers, but they can't gank diving the tower while 2 supports are protecting the carry, so they stay farming, and ganking just when it's viable
据我所知，中国选手拥有更好的地图意识。所以你不能轻易地gank 到ZSMJ，他们是最好的gank者，但是他们无法在有两个队友保着carry的情况下还在对方塔下杀人，所以他们选择了farm，然后再在适当的时候gank。
17楼WickeDD：
Asians are total shit at ganking. Every time ive seen an asian team (Nv.cn/Ehome) try to pull off a gank push strat they fail miserably.
They can only turtle.
In the previous metagame where people didnt think creative enough Ehome won ESWC and right now MYM is king with gank/push strategies.
引用“亚洲人是顶级的gank选手。
人们只关注到他们的carry是因为这是让他们觉得比赛无聊的重点。”
亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。
他们只能龟缩。
在过去的正式比赛里，人们觉得Ehome的创造性不足以让他们赢得ESWC的想法是对的。现在MYM才是gank和推进流的王者。（译者注：MYM是一个世界闻名的专业电子竞技俱乐部，拥有世界各地的的顶级竞技选手。MYM总部设在丹麦歌本哈根市，在德国设有子公司，该战队由Esports I/S公司所拥有。）
18楼lixiaolu：
The art of not dying to stupid ganks? Seriously, watching yr favourite team rape a bunch of noobs that wonders around aimlessly is enjoyable? Watching back to those old watever V-god or mym replays really shows how terrible the quality of the players back then.. Any third rate teams nowadays can easily own them np.
战争的艺术？是死于愚蠢的gank的艺术吧？观看你最喜欢的队伍到处乱窜，虐一帮菜B很有趣是吧？看看那些很久以前的老录像，不管是V神还是MYM的，他们的技术和现在比起来简直差的要命··任何一支现在的三流队伍都能轻易虐死他们。
19楼Naroblas：
if you've only seen nv.cn and ehome then I guess you haven't seen much chinese replays, you've seen them but not lgd.sgty, the best team out of these 3 in terms of gank/early game dominance?
引用“亚洲人在gank方面完全不行，每一次我看见一支亚洲队伍（比如Nv.cn/Ehome）试图进行一次gank他们都会悲剧性地失败。·····”
如果你只看过Nv.cn和Ehome的比赛，那我猜你还没有看过很多中国比赛的录像，你还没看过LGD.sgty，这支中国最好的gank队伍，他们在游戏前期就能取得决定性的优势。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Katherine 转载请注明出处