超级军网赶走卡扎菲，利比亚是否犯了一个巨大的错误？
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/28 19:12:04
http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/2927.html
Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi?
作者:贱宗首席弟子 发布日期:2011-09-12 09:50:31 浏览:2178
译文简介:这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。译文来源:原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-743332.0.html正文翻译:playmode (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
I have been studying Libya since this uprising started and i can't shake off the feeling that Libyans may have been ungrateful to Gaddafi. Libya was country that for the past 41 years prospered and was never in debt. However in the last 6 months Libya has become a debtor not to mention the number of infrastructure destroyed by NATO bombs. If care is not take the new Government of Libya will have to borrow from the west to repair their infrastructure.
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。不出意外，利比亚新政权肯定会为了重建基础设施而向西方举债。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
If you look at some of the good things Gaddafi as done as indicated below you will agree with me that Nigerians would have appreciated a leader like this. Don't get me wrong, Gaddafi has got his faults but he was a leader that provided the basics for his people.
如果你同意下面我所列的这些卡扎菲做的好事情，那么尼日利亚人会对一个如卡扎菲一样的领袖点头赞许。别误解我，卡扎菲已为他犯下的错付出代价了，但是他依旧是一个为他的人们提供基础设施的领袖。
Here are the GOOD and BAD of Gaddafi's rule.
下面是卡扎菲统治下的好与坏。
The GOOD
好的方面
1. The government of Muammar brought the Libyan government from poverty and debt, to prosperity and debt-free status in 41 years
41年来卡扎菲政权将利比亚从贫穷和债务中拖出来，成为一个繁荣、无外债的国家。
2. Education from grade school through to college is free in Libya.
在利比亚从小学到大学，教育免费。
3. Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.
医疗免费，利比亚的制药业和医院设施与欧洲一样高质量。
4. Libya ranks No. 53 on the United Nations Index of Human Development.
在联合国的人类发展指数上，利比亚排名第53位。
5. Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa (even better than South Africa,Mauritius and Seychelles).
在非洲，利比亚有着最高标准的生活水平（甚至比南非，毛里求斯和塞舌尔群岛要高）
6. Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
利比亚免费提供任何想要耕作的人的土地种子。
7. There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home.
事实上在利比亚所有无家可归的人都能领到房子。
8. Women in Libya have equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice.
利比亚妇女有平等的权利，不仅仅是写在纸上的理论，实际也是如此。
9. Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month.
在卡扎菲的 石油收益分享计划中，每个利比亚人每月银行户头会收到500美元。
10. On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please
每对利比亚夫妇新婚，政府会赠与60000美元作为礼物。
I could list a few more but my point is that here in Nigeria we are yet to really enjoy any if not all of the the above.
我还可以继续写下去，我的观点是，如果上述福利我们尼日利亚人能享受到，哪怕只是一部分，我们也会很高兴。
The bad:
坏的方面
Lack of democracy, opposition movements have always been dealt with harshly
缺乏民主，反对政府通常会遭到严厉的制裁。
The state was virtually family owned
国家实际上掌控在卡扎菲家族手中。
Military involvement and meddling in other North African countries as well as support for despots like Charles Taylor.
在军事上干预北非其他国家，支持像Charles Taylor这样的独裁者。
My opinion is that the whole debacle over the West meddling in Libya has nothing to do with oil but more to do with control in the middle east as well as causing chaos in those countries that always had major issues with Israel.
对于西方干预造成的灾难，我的观点是，他们不仅仅是为了石油，更多的是为了控制中东，在这些国家制造混乱，这样对以色列更有益。
Read between the lines people. I do not condone dictators don't get me wrong but it appears the West chooses which dictators to support ( Dubai has no democracy what so ever, they do not have elections), depending on who is willing to bend over.
正在阅读的朋友，我并不是支持独裁者，请不要误解我。不过似乎西方会选择一些独裁者去支持（迪拜也没有民主，他们甚至没法参与选举），选择的标准取决于是否向西方卑躬屈膝。
评论翻译:marcus1234
on: August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
wow 60,000 $ after marriage?? whatt the
哇，结婚之后给6W美元？我X……
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
playmode (m)
Quote from: marcus1234 on August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
I was also shocked when i found out.Apparently his leadership techniques are detailed in his book which can be found here : http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm .Apart from his ruthless side ,he was a great leader.Imagine how he would have used our Oil money in Nigeria to make people's lives better if he was our president ?
当我发现这件事时，我也很震撼。显而易见的是，卡扎菲的统治技巧在如下他的书中有详细说明。
http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm抛开他的冷酷无情，他事实上是一个伟大的领袖。想象一下，如果他是我们的领袖，他会如何利用尼日利亚的石油来改善人民的生活？
belabela (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 12:00 PM
Time will tell. But I believe they just lost their freedom
时间会证明一切。我相信他们会失去他们的自由。
cap28
on: August 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
You got that right. Libya is going to end up just like nigeria where you have a useless puppet carrying out the dictates of america and europe - the upsetting thing about this whole thing is that 90% of the population of libya do not want this criminal gang.
你是对的。利比亚的结局将和尼日利亚一样，成为美国和欧洲手中的木偶-整个事件中最可悲的是，利比亚将近90%的人不支持这些罪犯。
Before this current attack on Tripoli NATO threatened to burn the entire city if Gadaffi refused to relinquish power, they are currently using helicopters which are flying low to strafe ANYONE who tries to fight to repel the rebels from Tripoli, this was how the rebels were able to gain access into Gadaffi's compound, looting, rap.e and murder is going on as we speak while the western media totally ignores it and reports LIES, LIES, LIES. As you know these lies have already been exposed when Saif al islam who is supposed to have been arrested made a reappearance.
在这次攻击的黎波里前，北约威胁卡扎菲，如果他拒绝缴械投降，他们会燃烧整个城市，他们现在正在用直升机低空飞行，猛烈炮轰那些在的黎波里试图击退反叛者的人，这就是为什么反叛者能进入卡扎菲统治地带的原因。在我们说话的这会，抢劫，强奸和谋杀正在上演，西方媒体完全无视，只是不断重复着谎言，谎言，谎言。大伙都知道，诸如萨哈夫.伊斯兰（卡扎菲的儿子）被捕这种已被揭露了的谎言正在不断再现。
whyis the world allowing this atrocity to happen.
世界为什么会允许这种暴行发生。
horny4u (f)
on: August 24, 2011, 04:50 PM
If the wall ( Libya) has no opening the lizard (Nato) cannot get in,
墙壁（利比亚）没有打开前，蜥蜴（北约）是不能钻进来的。
A great leader understands the dynamics of continuation , Libya is not a family ,, it is a nation and Ghaddaffi should have used the democratic method of leadership so there was a free and fair election.
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的选举。
People must vote for their leaders, no point going to sit on the top of a tree where you can see the mountain top only to start feeling like you are on the mountain becos once the tree falls you are back to square one and will have to climb the mountain to see its top.
人民必须选举他们心仪的领袖，而不是毫无意义的爬到可以看到远处山峰的树顶，让自己感觉像在山巅。因为一旦树倒下了，你还是会回到地面，你还是得重新爬山，才能欣赏山巅的美景。
At least Nigeria is sorting itself out daily, and climbing our mountain small by small, our elections are getting better every time and we are not being run by a single family.
起码尼日利亚是按照自己的日程表来运行的，它在一点一点往山顶爬去，我们的选举一次比一次好，我们也没有被一个家族统治。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Cinzo
on: August 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
This is what I have been shouting from the rooftops since! Give me electricity,good roads,good health care system and you can loot all the treasury for all I care.
But these are not even in place!
Libyans will wake up soon and realize they have shot themselves in the foot.
这就是我曾经在屋顶咆哮过的话！给我电力，良好的道路，良好的医疗保障系统，你可以拿走国库里所有的东西，那玩意我不关心。
可那一切根本没发生。
利比亚人很快就会醒过来的，他们会认识到时他们自己将自己的根斩断了。
Macroworld
August 24, 2011, 04:55 PM
All your arguments are well founded and balanced. My only concern is why are the Citizens who have benefited from such State Support not supporting the government at this time. I am personally not sure what is happening here, because if Nigerians have such a leader. government and system that uses integral proportion of the revenue from its natural resources to support its People Like the Libyan example highlighted above. I am 100% certain that Nigerians will rally round such a leader, no matter what the propaganda or externalities are. I am aware there will be argument about length of leadership, Leadership style ( harsh) and so on.
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，在这种情况下我们会怎么做。利比亚就是那种取之于民用之于民的典型国家。我干百分之百的肯定，如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，无论外部宣传如何，我们会始支持他。我想那边应该有诸如领袖任期长短，政府是否过于严格等问题的争论。
Islamrules回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
I vote for you
我支持你。
cinzo回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
It's not about elections! It's about getting the dividends of democracy. What have we gained in all the years of democracy?
这与选举无关！事实是希望能分享到民主的好处。可是这些年来我们从民主里收获了什么呢？
Hajifaty回复
playmode (m) （楼主）
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的…………
Where are the fools that are comparing Gaddafi with the foolish nigeria leaders. The libya pple have lost their country,wealth and oil to small group of criminals and their western masters.The jihadist will take over soon and sharia law will be the national constitution according to the NTC statements in DOHA. Its a long film and no one can predict the END
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生，伊斯兰法律将会成为国家的宪法。这部电影很长，没人能预测结局。
Cinzo回复
Macroworld
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个…………
Guy the war was not between Ghadaffi and the rebels! The war was between Ghaddaffi and NATO! Do you think if left to the rebels alone they would have been able to oust Ghaddaffi?
伙计，这不是卡扎菲和反叛者之间的战争！这是卡扎菲和北约之间的战争！难道你认为单靠那些反叛者，他们能赶走卡扎菲吗？
Islamrules回复
Hajifaty
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生…………
Sharia law will be implemented ? Whaooo! that is a great achievement. The dream of every muslims.
Even famine ransacked somalia is using it. Libya too will soon wallow in poverty, they are ungrateful to Gaddafi but Iraq will be better because there wont be stability.
伊斯兰教法将会被实施？哇哦，这是伟大的成就。每一个MSL的梦想。
即使是被饥荒袭击着的索马里，也在使用伊斯兰教法。利比亚不久将会在贫穷中沉沦，他们对卡扎菲忘恩负义，不过伊拉克会更好，在那儿没有平衡。
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:12 PM
Libya's problems have just started. There are over 150 different tribes in Libya, and now, they all have guns. there is no way one tribe will drop his weapon for another tribe. Gaddafi was able to hold the country together for 40+ years. Now, an all out civil war is imminent. This is like a replay of what happened in the IRAN revolution.
利比亚的问题才开始呢。在利比亚有超过150个部落，现在，他们都有了枪。没办法让一个部落对另一个部落放下枪。卡扎菲让这个国家团结在一起了40多年，现在，一场内战即将来临。简直就是伊拉克的翻版。
Howcome NATO is not in Syria, what's happening in Syria right now is worse than what started NATO's intervention in Libya. Hopefully, someday the west will realise that they can't always meddle in other people's country. I can't believe they supported this barbaric rebels. I'm not saying Gaddafi is all that but, this rebels are worse. I expected more from Russia and China, they shouldn't have allowed this to happen, no one else had the power to confront NATO. I feel so sorry for Libya, the worst has just begun. They don't like to see peace in Africa, they know peace in Africa means that we will prosper more than them. Long live Africa!!!
为什么北约不在叙利亚？在叙利亚发生的事件比导致北约进入的利比亚事件更严重。希望将来某一天，西方能认识到他们不能总是干涉其他国家的事物。我真不敢相信他们居然支持这些野蛮的反叛者。我不是说卡扎菲很好，可是这些反叛者更坏。我对俄罗斯和中国期望更大，他们不应该允许这一切发生，除了他们，没人有实力和北约对抗。我为利比亚感到难过，更坏的事才发生呢。他们不想看到非洲和平，他们知道非洲的和平意味着我们会比他们更加繁荣。非洲万岁！
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Hajifaty
on: August 24, 2011, 05:17 PM
I am weeping for the libya pple. See what is happening in iraq. decades to come they can't settle all these problems they have brought upon themselves.
我为利比亚人民哭泣。看看在伊拉克发生了什么。数十年过去了，他们还是不能在伊拉克擦干净自己拉的屎。
MIrhABi
on: August 24, 2011, 05:19 PM
forget about the 60k dollars and the 500 dollars he gives them for whatever reason,these people are fighting for freedom.Freedom to do whatever in their home country.One of his sons tried hijacking his government,in the end he apologized and was given an appointment by gadaffi.Can an ordinary Libyan try that?,for a country with a small population and abundant oil can it be too much if he deposits 2,000 dollars every month?.
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变，然后他道歉悔过，然后卡扎菲给了他一个职位任命。你要是一个普通利比亚人，你来试试？就算他每月给人民2000美元，对于一个人烟稀少石油资源丰富的国家来说，卡扎菲依旧拿了太多。
Seunlayi回复
MIrhABi
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变…………
You are right, Libyans believed that they deserved more from their government than what they are presently receiving especially, the area of freedom. THEY NO LONGER WILLING TO SELL THEIR FREEDOM FOR 500 DOLLARS or 60K WHATEVER.
Let us have it in mind that they are not like we Nigerians that are ready to sell our family at any amount.
你是对的，利比亚人相信他们目前享受的自由，比前政府发的钱更重要。不过，他们马上就会将这自由以500美元或是6万美元的价格卖掉。
记住，他们不像我们这些已经以随便一个价格出卖了自己全家的尼日利亚人。
Fire007
on: August 24, 2011, 05:25 PM
If this is true, then Nigeria needs a Gaddafi, as non of our Rulers(they are not Leaders) have done half.
Goodluck is just clueless !!!
如果楼主说的都是真的，我们尼日利亚人也需要一个卡扎菲，而不是我们的统治者（他们不是我们的领袖）。
祝人好运是没意义的。
buzugee (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:28 PM
cant believe yall are supporting an arab nation. wtfff all you ungrateful nigerians how many of you are out in the libyan embassy queuing for libyan visa ? all you crazies are out in the american and british embassies all day and night clamouring for visas to come to america and europe. well why do you think america and europe, that you so desperately want to go to, are the way they are ? the machinery that keeps those economies the way they are is FUEL. that economy is driven with oil. if oil supply stops, those economies will grind to a halt. i know so many of you are writing from your places of comfort in europe and america. dont you see the hypocrisy of this ? you enjoy the spoils of the west but you are against what produces these spoils ?. believe it or not ghaddafi is getting raided because he declared he wanted to start trading with china and russia, nothing more nothing less. if there is any revelation in this whole debacle, it is that
真不敢相信你们支持一个阿拉伯国家。你们这些健忘的尼日利亚人。你们中有多少人在为了一张签证在利比亚大使馆排队？你们这些疯子整日整夜的在美国欧洲大使馆外为了一张前往美国欧洲的签证排队。你们绝望的挣扎，可路在哪里呢？维持经济的机器需要燃料，经济是靠石油来前进的。如果石油供应停止，经济立刻停止发展。我知道你们这些人正在你们的欧洲美国的舒适的房间里面打字。这难道不虚伪吗？你们享受着西方的战利品，却反对获得战利品的过程。不管你们信不信，卡扎菲会被袭击。因为他公开宣称他想和中国与俄罗斯做生意。这或多或少的揭露了这场叛乱的原因。
1, china and russia are poosies for not backing ghaddafi
1，中国和俄罗斯众所周知不支持卡扎菲。
2, contrary to belief, the money derived from oil is not why all these wars are fought. there is not that much money derived from oil. so this is not a monetary thing. the wars are fought for the control of oil because it is the oil that runs the economies of the west. without the oil they are doomed. they are not starting wars to steal the tashere money your oil makes, they are starting wars to have ACCESS to the oil. so either way, your country is not losing much.,
2，恰恰相反，战斗的原因并不是卖石油的钱。卖石油并没有太多钱。所以与钱无关。战斗的原因，是为了控制石油，因为西方经济是靠石油推动的。没有石油，他们就会停滞。他们开启战争并不是为了偷你石油的钱，开启战争是为了拥有石油的使用权。所以无论如何，你的国家不会失去太多。
3, and this is a personal gripe i have with arabs. arabs are single handedly responsible for destroying all black civilizations even before the europeans came. it was the systematic destruction of black civilizations for thousands of years by the arabs that left us exposed and ill equipped to defend ourselves agaiinst the euros. the arabs broke us down for over a 1000 years and the euros just swooped in and took the dregs. what you didnt know libya, egypt, morocco, algeria etc etc were part of black africa till the arabs occupied it after killing us all and beating us down further south ? you aint knowing ? thats our land. personally i say fork em all. i got no allegiance to the arabs or the euros. but at least i can benefit from the euros
3，这是我对阿拉伯人的一点个人牢骚。阿拉伯人应该独自为所有被破坏的黑人文明负责，甚至早至欧洲人来之前。正式因为阿拉伯人对黑人文明系统性的摧毁，才让我们在面对欧洲人时赤手空拳。阿拉伯人数千年来攻击我们，欧洲人却只是猛冲过来抢点渣滓。你不知道，利比亚，埃及，摩洛哥，阿尔及利亚等，以前都是黑人的地方，直到被阿拉伯人占据，我们黑人被杀光，然后在更远的南方攻击我们。你们这些白痴知道吗？那是我们的土地。
这就是我要说的话。我不会效忠于阿拉伯人或是欧洲人，不过起码我可以从欧洲人那弄点好处。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Rgp92
on: August 24, 2011, 06:10 PM
Just wait and see, Libya will be another Sudan: Black vs Arab
等着看吧，利比亚会是下一个苏丹：黑人VS阿拉伯人
Dj zzyzx (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:24 PM
i pity Libyans, in there graves they will regret ever picking arms and forcing gadaffi out of power, Gadaffi was the only African president dat resisted western puppeting, he proposed the African Union and a united Africa all he gat now is a divided Libya, all i giv libya is one year and Iraq will be better than them
Koffi annan said that the moment the west will stop poking it's nose into UN affairs, the world will becom a better place, BLACK GLORY
为利比亚人惋惜。就算到了坟墓，他们还是会为自己举手强行赶走卡扎菲的行为后悔的。卡扎菲是非洲唯一一个敢于和西方对抗的领导人。是他提出非洲联盟，北约给他的回报就是现在分裂的利比亚，我认为一年以后伊拉克都要比利比亚强。
Koffi annan说过，如果西方能停止他们嗅向非洲联盟的鼻子，世界会更加美好。荣耀属于黑人！
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:37 PM
By the time they unfreeze libya's assets and money, some people somewhere will become overnight billionaires.
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
all4naija (m)回复
omoekoni (m)
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
Do you think Muammar Gaddafi and his family are not billionaires?
你以为卡扎菲及其家庭不是亿万富翁？
Rastamann
on: August 24, 2011, 06:51 PM
Why a mistake after ruling for aver 40 years? Africans like power a lot, how can a man rule for more than 40 years and still clutch to power at all cost? he will be lucky if he is not killed.
统治40年难道不是个错误吗？非洲人喜欢权力，一个人怎么可能在统治超过40年之后还试图不惜一切代价抓紧权力？他没被杀就够幸运的了。
http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/2927.html
Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi?
作者:贱宗首席弟子 发布日期:2011-09-12 09:50:31 浏览:2178
译文简介:这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。译文来源:原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-743332.0.html正文翻译:playmode (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
I have been studying Libya since this uprising started and i can't shake off the feeling that Libyans may have been ungrateful to Gaddafi. Libya was country that for the past 41 years prospered and was never in debt. However in the last 6 months Libya has become a debtor not to mention the number of infrastructure destroyed by NATO bombs. If care is not take the new Government of Libya will have to borrow from the west to repair their infrastructure.
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。不出意外，利比亚新政权肯定会为了重建基础设施而向西方举债。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
If you look at some of the good things Gaddafi as done as indicated below you will agree with me that Nigerians would have appreciated a leader like this. Don't get me wrong, Gaddafi has got his faults but he was a leader that provided the basics for his people.
如果你同意下面我所列的这些卡扎菲做的好事情，那么尼日利亚人会对一个如卡扎菲一样的领袖点头赞许。别误解我，卡扎菲已为他犯下的错付出代价了，但是他依旧是一个为他的人们提供基础设施的领袖。
Here are the GOOD and BAD of Gaddafi's rule.
下面是卡扎菲统治下的好与坏。
The GOOD
好的方面
1. The government of Muammar brought the Libyan government from poverty and debt, to prosperity and debt-free status in 41 years
41年来卡扎菲政权将利比亚从贫穷和债务中拖出来，成为一个繁荣、无外债的国家。
2. Education from grade school through to college is free in Libya.
在利比亚从小学到大学，教育免费。
3. Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.
医疗免费，利比亚的制药业和医院设施与欧洲一样高质量。
4. Libya ranks No. 53 on the United Nations Index of Human Development.
在联合国的人类发展指数上，利比亚排名第53位。
5. Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa (even better than South Africa,Mauritius and Seychelles).
在非洲，利比亚有着最高标准的生活水平（甚至比南非，毛里求斯和塞舌尔群岛要高）
6. Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
利比亚免费提供任何想要耕作的人的土地种子。
7. There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home.
事实上在利比亚所有无家可归的人都能领到房子。
8. Women in Libya have equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice.
利比亚妇女有平等的权利，不仅仅是写在纸上的理论，实际也是如此。
9. Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month.
在卡扎菲的 石油收益分享计划中，每个利比亚人每月银行户头会收到500美元。
10. On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please
每对利比亚夫妇新婚，政府会赠与60000美元作为礼物。
I could list a few more but my point is that here in Nigeria we are yet to really enjoy any if not all of the the above.
我还可以继续写下去，我的观点是，如果上述福利我们尼日利亚人能享受到，哪怕只是一部分，我们也会很高兴。
The bad:
坏的方面
Lack of democracy, opposition movements have always been dealt with harshly
缺乏民主，反对政府通常会遭到严厉的制裁。
The state was virtually family owned
国家实际上掌控在卡扎菲家族手中。
Military involvement and meddling in other North African countries as well as support for despots like Charles Taylor.
在军事上干预北非其他国家，支持像Charles Taylor这样的独裁者。
My opinion is that the whole debacle over the West meddling in Libya has nothing to do with oil but more to do with control in the middle east as well as causing chaos in those countries that always had major issues with Israel.
对于西方干预造成的灾难，我的观点是，他们不仅仅是为了石油，更多的是为了控制中东，在这些国家制造混乱，这样对以色列更有益。
Read between the lines people. I do not condone dictators don't get me wrong but it appears the West chooses which dictators to support ( Dubai has no democracy what so ever, they do not have elections), depending on who is willing to bend over.
正在阅读的朋友，我并不是支持独裁者，请不要误解我。不过似乎西方会选择一些独裁者去支持（迪拜也没有民主，他们甚至没法参与选举），选择的标准取决于是否向西方卑躬屈膝。
评论翻译:marcus1234
on: August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
wow 60,000 $ after marriage?? whatt the
哇，结婚之后给6W美元？我X……
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
playmode (m)
Quote from: marcus1234 on August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
I was also shocked when i found out.Apparently his leadership techniques are detailed in his book which can be found here : http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm .Apart from his ruthless side ,he was a great leader.Imagine how he would have used our Oil money in Nigeria to make people's lives better if he was our president ?
当我发现这件事时，我也很震撼。显而易见的是，卡扎菲的统治技巧在如下他的书中有详细说明。
http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm抛开他的冷酷无情，他事实上是一个伟大的领袖。想象一下，如果他是我们的领袖，他会如何利用尼日利亚的石油来改善人民的生活？
belabela (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 12:00 PM
Time will tell. But I believe they just lost their freedom
时间会证明一切。我相信他们会失去他们的自由。
cap28
on: August 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
You got that right. Libya is going to end up just like nigeria where you have a useless puppet carrying out the dictates of america and europe - the upsetting thing about this whole thing is that 90% of the population of libya do not want this criminal gang.
你是对的。利比亚的结局将和尼日利亚一样，成为美国和欧洲手中的木偶-整个事件中最可悲的是，利比亚将近90%的人不支持这些罪犯。
Before this current attack on Tripoli NATO threatened to burn the entire city if Gadaffi refused to relinquish power, they are currently using helicopters which are flying low to strafe ANYONE who tries to fight to repel the rebels from Tripoli, this was how the rebels were able to gain access into Gadaffi's compound, looting, rap.e and murder is going on as we speak while the western media totally ignores it and reports LIES, LIES, LIES. As you know these lies have already been exposed when Saif al islam who is supposed to have been arrested made a reappearance.
在这次攻击的黎波里前，北约威胁卡扎菲，如果他拒绝缴械投降，他们会燃烧整个城市，他们现在正在用直升机低空飞行，猛烈炮轰那些在的黎波里试图击退反叛者的人，这就是为什么反叛者能进入卡扎菲统治地带的原因。在我们说话的这会，抢劫，强奸和谋杀正在上演，西方媒体完全无视，只是不断重复着谎言，谎言，谎言。大伙都知道，诸如萨哈夫.伊斯兰（卡扎菲的儿子）被捕这种已被揭露了的谎言正在不断再现。
whyis the world allowing this atrocity to happen.
世界为什么会允许这种暴行发生。
horny4u (f)
on: August 24, 2011, 04:50 PM
If the wall ( Libya) has no opening the lizard (Nato) cannot get in,
墙壁（利比亚）没有打开前，蜥蜴（北约）是不能钻进来的。
A great leader understands the dynamics of continuation , Libya is not a family ,, it is a nation and Ghaddaffi should have used the democratic method of leadership so there was a free and fair election.
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的选举。
People must vote for their leaders, no point going to sit on the top of a tree where you can see the mountain top only to start feeling like you are on the mountain becos once the tree falls you are back to square one and will have to climb the mountain to see its top.
人民必须选举他们心仪的领袖，而不是毫无意义的爬到可以看到远处山峰的树顶，让自己感觉像在山巅。因为一旦树倒下了，你还是会回到地面，你还是得重新爬山，才能欣赏山巅的美景。
At least Nigeria is sorting itself out daily, and climbing our mountain small by small, our elections are getting better every time and we are not being run by a single family.
起码尼日利亚是按照自己的日程表来运行的，它在一点一点往山顶爬去，我们的选举一次比一次好，我们也没有被一个家族统治。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Cinzo
on: August 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
This is what I have been shouting from the rooftops since! Give me electricity,good roads,good health care system and you can loot all the treasury for all I care.
But these are not even in place!
Libyans will wake up soon and realize they have shot themselves in the foot.
这就是我曾经在屋顶咆哮过的话！给我电力，良好的道路，良好的医疗保障系统，你可以拿走国库里所有的东西，那玩意我不关心。
可那一切根本没发生。
利比亚人很快就会醒过来的，他们会认识到时他们自己将自己的根斩断了。
Macroworld
August 24, 2011, 04:55 PM
All your arguments are well founded and balanced. My only concern is why are the Citizens who have benefited from such State Support not supporting the government at this time. I am personally not sure what is happening here, because if Nigerians have such a leader. government and system that uses integral proportion of the revenue from its natural resources to support its People Like the Libyan example highlighted above. I am 100% certain that Nigerians will rally round such a leader, no matter what the propaganda or externalities are. I am aware there will be argument about length of leadership, Leadership style ( harsh) and so on.
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，在这种情况下我们会怎么做。利比亚就是那种取之于民用之于民的典型国家。我干百分之百的肯定，如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，无论外部宣传如何，我们会始支持他。我想那边应该有诸如领袖任期长短，政府是否过于严格等问题的争论。
Islamrules回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
I vote for you
我支持你。
cinzo回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
It's not about elections! It's about getting the dividends of democracy. What have we gained in all the years of democracy?
这与选举无关！事实是希望能分享到民主的好处。可是这些年来我们从民主里收获了什么呢？
Hajifaty回复
playmode (m) （楼主）
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的…………
Where are the fools that are comparing Gaddafi with the foolish nigeria leaders. The libya pple have lost their country,wealth and oil to small group of criminals and their western masters.The jihadist will take over soon and sharia law will be the national constitution according to the NTC statements in DOHA. Its a long film and no one can predict the END
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生，伊斯兰法律将会成为国家的宪法。这部电影很长，没人能预测结局。
Cinzo回复
Macroworld
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个…………
Guy the war was not between Ghadaffi and the rebels! The war was between Ghaddaffi and NATO! Do you think if left to the rebels alone they would have been able to oust Ghaddaffi?
伙计，这不是卡扎菲和反叛者之间的战争！这是卡扎菲和北约之间的战争！难道你认为单靠那些反叛者，他们能赶走卡扎菲吗？
Islamrules回复
Hajifaty
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生…………
Sharia law will be implemented ? Whaooo! that is a great achievement. The dream of every muslims.
Even famine ransacked somalia is using it. Libya too will soon wallow in poverty, they are ungrateful to Gaddafi but Iraq will be better because there wont be stability.
伊斯兰教法将会被实施？哇哦，这是伟大的成就。每一个MSL的梦想。
即使是被饥荒袭击着的索马里，也在使用伊斯兰教法。利比亚不久将会在贫穷中沉沦，他们对卡扎菲忘恩负义，不过伊拉克会更好，在那儿没有平衡。
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:12 PM
Libya's problems have just started. There are over 150 different tribes in Libya, and now, they all have guns. there is no way one tribe will drop his weapon for another tribe. Gaddafi was able to hold the country together for 40+ years. Now, an all out civil war is imminent. This is like a replay of what happened in the IRAN revolution.
利比亚的问题才开始呢。在利比亚有超过150个部落，现在，他们都有了枪。没办法让一个部落对另一个部落放下枪。卡扎菲让这个国家团结在一起了40多年，现在，一场内战即将来临。简直就是伊拉克的翻版。
Howcome NATO is not in Syria, what's happening in Syria right now is worse than what started NATO's intervention in Libya. Hopefully, someday the west will realise that they can't always meddle in other people's country. I can't believe they supported this barbaric rebels. I'm not saying Gaddafi is all that but, this rebels are worse. I expected more from Russia and China, they shouldn't have allowed this to happen, no one else had the power to confront NATO. I feel so sorry for Libya, the worst has just begun. They don't like to see peace in Africa, they know peace in Africa means that we will prosper more than them. Long live Africa!!!
为什么北约不在叙利亚？在叙利亚发生的事件比导致北约进入的利比亚事件更严重。希望将来某一天，西方能认识到他们不能总是干涉其他国家的事物。我真不敢相信他们居然支持这些野蛮的反叛者。我不是说卡扎菲很好，可是这些反叛者更坏。我对俄罗斯和中国期望更大，他们不应该允许这一切发生，除了他们，没人有实力和北约对抗。我为利比亚感到难过，更坏的事才发生呢。他们不想看到非洲和平，他们知道非洲的和平意味着我们会比他们更加繁荣。非洲万岁！
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Hajifaty
on: August 24, 2011, 05:17 PM
I am weeping for the libya pple. See what is happening in iraq. decades to come they can't settle all these problems they have brought upon themselves.
我为利比亚人民哭泣。看看在伊拉克发生了什么。数十年过去了，他们还是不能在伊拉克擦干净自己拉的屎。
MIrhABi
on: August 24, 2011, 05:19 PM
forget about the 60k dollars and the 500 dollars he gives them for whatever reason,these people are fighting for freedom.Freedom to do whatever in their home country.One of his sons tried hijacking his government,in the end he apologized and was given an appointment by gadaffi.Can an ordinary Libyan try that?,for a country with a small population and abundant oil can it be too much if he deposits 2,000 dollars every month?.
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变，然后他道歉悔过，然后卡扎菲给了他一个职位任命。你要是一个普通利比亚人，你来试试？就算他每月给人民2000美元，对于一个人烟稀少石油资源丰富的国家来说，卡扎菲依旧拿了太多。
Seunlayi回复
MIrhABi
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变…………
You are right, Libyans believed that they deserved more from their government than what they are presently receiving especially, the area of freedom. THEY NO LONGER WILLING TO SELL THEIR FREEDOM FOR 500 DOLLARS or 60K WHATEVER.
Let us have it in mind that they are not like we Nigerians that are ready to sell our family at any amount.
你是对的，利比亚人相信他们目前享受的自由，比前政府发的钱更重要。不过，他们马上就会将这自由以500美元或是6万美元的价格卖掉。
记住，他们不像我们这些已经以随便一个价格出卖了自己全家的尼日利亚人。
Fire007
on: August 24, 2011, 05:25 PM
If this is true, then Nigeria needs a Gaddafi, as non of our Rulers(they are not Leaders) have done half.
Goodluck is just clueless !!!
如果楼主说的都是真的，我们尼日利亚人也需要一个卡扎菲，而不是我们的统治者（他们不是我们的领袖）。
祝人好运是没意义的。
buzugee (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:28 PM
cant believe yall are supporting an arab nation. wtfff all you ungrateful nigerians how many of you are out in the libyan embassy queuing for libyan visa ? all you crazies are out in the american and british embassies all day and night clamouring for visas to come to america and europe. well why do you think america and europe, that you so desperately want to go to, are the way they are ? the machinery that keeps those economies the way they are is FUEL. that economy is driven with oil. if oil supply stops, those economies will grind to a halt. i know so many of you are writing from your places of comfort in europe and america. dont you see the hypocrisy of this ? you enjoy the spoils of the west but you are against what produces these spoils ?. believe it or not ghaddafi is getting raided because he declared he wanted to start trading with china and russia, nothing more nothing less. if there is any revelation in this whole debacle, it is that
真不敢相信你们支持一个阿拉伯国家。你们这些健忘的尼日利亚人。你们中有多少人在为了一张签证在利比亚大使馆排队？你们这些疯子整日整夜的在美国欧洲大使馆外为了一张前往美国欧洲的签证排队。你们绝望的挣扎，可路在哪里呢？维持经济的机器需要燃料，经济是靠石油来前进的。如果石油供应停止，经济立刻停止发展。我知道你们这些人正在你们的欧洲美国的舒适的房间里面打字。这难道不虚伪吗？你们享受着西方的战利品，却反对获得战利品的过程。不管你们信不信，卡扎菲会被袭击。因为他公开宣称他想和中国与俄罗斯做生意。这或多或少的揭露了这场叛乱的原因。
1, china and russia are poosies for not backing ghaddafi
1，中国和俄罗斯众所周知不支持卡扎菲。
2, contrary to belief, the money derived from oil is not why all these wars are fought. there is not that much money derived from oil. so this is not a monetary thing. the wars are fought for the control of oil because it is the oil that runs the economies of the west. without the oil they are doomed. they are not starting wars to steal the tashere money your oil makes, they are starting wars to have ACCESS to the oil. so either way, your country is not losing much.,
2，恰恰相反，战斗的原因并不是卖石油的钱。卖石油并没有太多钱。所以与钱无关。战斗的原因，是为了控制石油，因为西方经济是靠石油推动的。没有石油，他们就会停滞。他们开启战争并不是为了偷你石油的钱，开启战争是为了拥有石油的使用权。所以无论如何，你的国家不会失去太多。
3, and this is a personal gripe i have with arabs. arabs are single handedly responsible for destroying all black civilizations even before the europeans came. it was the systematic destruction of black civilizations for thousands of years by the arabs that left us exposed and ill equipped to defend ourselves agaiinst the euros. the arabs broke us down for over a 1000 years and the euros just swooped in and took the dregs. what you didnt know libya, egypt, morocco, algeria etc etc were part of black africa till the arabs occupied it after killing us all and beating us down further south ? you aint knowing ? thats our land. personally i say fork em all. i got no allegiance to the arabs or the euros. but at least i can benefit from the euros
3，这是我对阿拉伯人的一点个人牢骚。阿拉伯人应该独自为所有被破坏的黑人文明负责，甚至早至欧洲人来之前。正式因为阿拉伯人对黑人文明系统性的摧毁，才让我们在面对欧洲人时赤手空拳。阿拉伯人数千年来攻击我们，欧洲人却只是猛冲过来抢点渣滓。你不知道，利比亚，埃及，摩洛哥，阿尔及利亚等，以前都是黑人的地方，直到被阿拉伯人占据，我们黑人被杀光，然后在更远的南方攻击我们。你们这些白痴知道吗？那是我们的土地。
这就是我要说的话。我不会效忠于阿拉伯人或是欧洲人，不过起码我可以从欧洲人那弄点好处。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Rgp92
on: August 24, 2011, 06:10 PM
Just wait and see, Libya will be another Sudan: Black vs Arab
等着看吧，利比亚会是下一个苏丹：黑人VS阿拉伯人
Dj zzyzx (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:24 PM
i pity Libyans, in there graves they will regret ever picking arms and forcing gadaffi out of power, Gadaffi was the only African president dat resisted western puppeting, he proposed the African Union and a united Africa all he gat now is a divided Libya, all i giv libya is one year and Iraq will be better than them
Koffi annan said that the moment the west will stop poking it's nose into UN affairs, the world will becom a better place, BLACK GLORY
为利比亚人惋惜。就算到了坟墓，他们还是会为自己举手强行赶走卡扎菲的行为后悔的。卡扎菲是非洲唯一一个敢于和西方对抗的领导人。是他提出非洲联盟，北约给他的回报就是现在分裂的利比亚，我认为一年以后伊拉克都要比利比亚强。
Koffi annan说过，如果西方能停止他们嗅向非洲联盟的鼻子，世界会更加美好。荣耀属于黑人！
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:37 PM
By the time they unfreeze libya's assets and money, some people somewhere will become overnight billionaires.
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
all4naija (m)回复
omoekoni (m)
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
Do you think Muammar Gaddafi and his family are not billionaires?
你以为卡扎菲及其家庭不是亿万富翁？
Rastamann
on: August 24, 2011, 06:51 PM
Why a mistake after ruling for aver 40 years? Africans like power a lot, how can a man rule for more than 40 years and still clutch to power at all cost? he will be lucky if he is not killed.
统治40年难道不是个错误吗？非洲人喜欢权力，一个人怎么可能在统治超过40年之后还试图不惜一切代价抓紧权力？他没被杀就够幸运的了。
Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi?
作者:贱宗首席弟子 发布日期:2011-09-12 09:50:31 浏览:2178
译文简介:这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。译文来源:原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-743332.0.html正文翻译:playmode (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
I have been studying Libya since this uprising started and i can't shake off the feeling that Libyans may have been ungrateful to Gaddafi. Libya was country that for the past 41 years prospered and was never in debt. However in the last 6 months Libya has become a debtor not to mention the number of infrastructure destroyed by NATO bombs. If care is not take the new Government of Libya will have to borrow from the west to repair their infrastructure.
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。不出意外，利比亚新政权肯定会为了重建基础设施而向西方举债。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
If you look at some of the good things Gaddafi as done as indicated below you will agree with me that Nigerians would have appreciated a leader like this. Don't get me wrong, Gaddafi has got his faults but he was a leader that provided the basics for his people.
如果你同意下面我所列的这些卡扎菲做的好事情，那么尼日利亚人会对一个如卡扎菲一样的领袖点头赞许。别误解我，卡扎菲已为他犯下的错付出代价了，但是他依旧是一个为他的人们提供基础设施的领袖。
Here are the GOOD and BAD of Gaddafi's rule.
下面是卡扎菲统治下的好与坏。
The GOOD
好的方面
1. The government of Muammar brought the Libyan government from poverty and debt, to prosperity and debt-free status in 41 years
41年来卡扎菲政权将利比亚从贫穷和债务中拖出来，成为一个繁荣、无外债的国家。
2. Education from grade school through to college is free in Libya.
在利比亚从小学到大学，教育免费。
3. Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.
医疗免费，利比亚的制药业和医院设施与欧洲一样高质量。
4. Libya ranks No. 53 on the United Nations Index of Human Development.
在联合国的人类发展指数上，利比亚排名第53位。
5. Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa (even better than South Africa,Mauritius and Seychelles).
在非洲，利比亚有着最高标准的生活水平（甚至比南非，毛里求斯和塞舌尔群岛要高）
6. Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
利比亚免费提供任何想要耕作的人的土地种子。
7. There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home.
事实上在利比亚所有无家可归的人都能领到房子。
8. Women in Libya have equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice.
利比亚妇女有平等的权利，不仅仅是写在纸上的理论，实际也是如此。
9. Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month.
在卡扎菲的 石油收益分享计划中，每个利比亚人每月银行户头会收到500美元。
10. On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please
每对利比亚夫妇新婚，政府会赠与60000美元作为礼物。
I could list a few more but my point is that here in Nigeria we are yet to really enjoy any if not all of the the above.
我还可以继续写下去，我的观点是，如果上述福利我们尼日利亚人能享受到，哪怕只是一部分，我们也会很高兴。
The bad:
坏的方面
Lack of democracy, opposition movements have always been dealt with harshly
缺乏民主，反对政府通常会遭到严厉的制裁。
The state was virtually family owned
国家实际上掌控在卡扎菲家族手中。
Military involvement and meddling in other North African countries as well as support for despots like Charles Taylor.
在军事上干预北非其他国家，支持像Charles Taylor这样的独裁者。
My opinion is that the whole debacle over the West meddling in Libya has nothing to do with oil but more to do with control in the middle east as well as causing chaos in those countries that always had major issues with Israel.
对于西方干预造成的灾难，我的观点是，他们不仅仅是为了石油，更多的是为了控制中东，在这些国家制造混乱，这样对以色列更有益。
Read between the lines people. I do not condone dictators don't get me wrong but it appears the West chooses which dictators to support ( Dubai has no democracy what so ever, they do not have elections), depending on who is willing to bend over.
正在阅读的朋友，我并不是支持独裁者，请不要误解我。不过似乎西方会选择一些独裁者去支持（迪拜也没有民主，他们甚至没法参与选举），选择的标准取决于是否向西方卑躬屈膝。
评论翻译:marcus1234
on: August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
wow 60,000 $ after marriage?? whatt the
哇，结婚之后给6W美元？我X……
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
playmode (m)
Quote from: marcus1234 on August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
I was also shocked when i found out.Apparently his leadership techniques are detailed in his book which can be found here : http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm .Apart from his ruthless side ,he was a great leader.Imagine how he would have used our Oil money in Nigeria to make people's lives better if he was our president ?
当我发现这件事时，我也很震撼。显而易见的是，卡扎菲的统治技巧在如下他的书中有详细说明。
http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm抛开他的冷酷无情，他事实上是一个伟大的领袖。想象一下，如果他是我们的领袖，他会如何利用尼日利亚的石油来改善人民的生活？
belabela (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 12:00 PM
Time will tell. But I believe they just lost their freedom
时间会证明一切。我相信他们会失去他们的自由。
cap28
on: August 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
You got that right. Libya is going to end up just like nigeria where you have a useless puppet carrying out the dictates of america and europe - the upsetting thing about this whole thing is that 90% of the population of libya do not want this criminal gang.
你是对的。利比亚的结局将和尼日利亚一样，成为美国和欧洲手中的木偶-整个事件中最可悲的是，利比亚将近90%的人不支持这些罪犯。
Before this current attack on Tripoli NATO threatened to burn the entire city if Gadaffi refused to relinquish power, they are currently using helicopters which are flying low to strafe ANYONE who tries to fight to repel the rebels from Tripoli, this was how the rebels were able to gain access into Gadaffi's compound, looting, rap.e and murder is going on as we speak while the western media totally ignores it and reports LIES, LIES, LIES. As you know these lies have already been exposed when Saif al islam who is supposed to have been arrested made a reappearance.
在这次攻击的黎波里前，北约威胁卡扎菲，如果他拒绝缴械投降，他们会燃烧整个城市，他们现在正在用直升机低空飞行，猛烈炮轰那些在的黎波里试图击退反叛者的人，这就是为什么反叛者能进入卡扎菲统治地带的原因。在我们说话的这会，抢劫，强奸和谋杀正在上演，西方媒体完全无视，只是不断重复着谎言，谎言，谎言。大伙都知道，诸如萨哈夫.伊斯兰（卡扎菲的儿子）被捕这种已被揭露了的谎言正在不断再现。
whyis the world allowing this atrocity to happen.
世界为什么会允许这种暴行发生。
horny4u (f)
on: August 24, 2011, 04:50 PM
If the wall ( Libya) has no opening the lizard (Nato) cannot get in,
墙壁（利比亚）没有打开前，蜥蜴（北约）是不能钻进来的。
A great leader understands the dynamics of continuation , Libya is not a family ,, it is a nation and Ghaddaffi should have used the democratic method of leadership so there was a free and fair election.
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的选举。
People must vote for their leaders, no point going to sit on the top of a tree where you can see the mountain top only to start feeling like you are on the mountain becos once the tree falls you are back to square one and will have to climb the mountain to see its top.
人民必须选举他们心仪的领袖，而不是毫无意义的爬到可以看到远处山峰的树顶，让自己感觉像在山巅。因为一旦树倒下了，你还是会回到地面，你还是得重新爬山，才能欣赏山巅的美景。
At least Nigeria is sorting itself out daily, and climbing our mountain small by small, our elections are getting better every time and we are not being run by a single family.
起码尼日利亚是按照自己的日程表来运行的，它在一点一点往山顶爬去，我们的选举一次比一次好，我们也没有被一个家族统治。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Cinzo
on: August 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
This is what I have been shouting from the rooftops since! Give me electricity,good roads,good health care system and you can loot all the treasury for all I care.
But these are not even in place!
Libyans will wake up soon and realize they have shot themselves in the foot.
这就是我曾经在屋顶咆哮过的话！给我电力，良好的道路，良好的医疗保障系统，你可以拿走国库里所有的东西，那玩意我不关心。
可那一切根本没发生。
利比亚人很快就会醒过来的，他们会认识到时他们自己将自己的根斩断了。
Macroworld
August 24, 2011, 04:55 PM
All your arguments are well founded and balanced. My only concern is why are the Citizens who have benefited from such State Support not supporting the government at this time. I am personally not sure what is happening here, because if Nigerians have such a leader. government and system that uses integral proportion of the revenue from its natural resources to support its People Like the Libyan example highlighted above. I am 100% certain that Nigerians will rally round such a leader, no matter what the propaganda or externalities are. I am aware there will be argument about length of leadership, Leadership style ( harsh) and so on.
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，在这种情况下我们会怎么做。利比亚就是那种取之于民用之于民的典型国家。我干百分之百的肯定，如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，无论外部宣传如何，我们会始支持他。我想那边应该有诸如领袖任期长短，政府是否过于严格等问题的争论。
Islamrules回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
I vote for you
我支持你。
cinzo回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
It's not about elections! It's about getting the dividends of democracy. What have we gained in all the years of democracy?
这与选举无关！事实是希望能分享到民主的好处。可是这些年来我们从民主里收获了什么呢？
Hajifaty回复
playmode (m) （楼主）
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的…………
Where are the fools that are comparing Gaddafi with the foolish nigeria leaders. The libya pple have lost their country,wealth and oil to small group of criminals and their western masters.The jihadist will take over soon and sharia law will be the national constitution according to the NTC statements in DOHA. Its a long film and no one can predict the END
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生，伊斯兰法律将会成为国家的宪法。这部电影很长，没人能预测结局。
Cinzo回复
Macroworld
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个…………
Guy the war was not between Ghadaffi and the rebels! The war was between Ghaddaffi and NATO! Do you think if left to the rebels alone they would have been able to oust Ghaddaffi?
伙计，这不是卡扎菲和反叛者之间的战争！这是卡扎菲和北约之间的战争！难道你认为单靠那些反叛者，他们能赶走卡扎菲吗？
Islamrules回复
Hajifaty
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生…………
Sharia law will be implemented ? Whaooo! that is a great achievement. The dream of every muslims.
Even famine ransacked somalia is using it. Libya too will soon wallow in poverty, they are ungrateful to Gaddafi but Iraq will be better because there wont be stability.
伊斯兰教法将会被实施？哇哦，这是伟大的成就。每一个MSL的梦想。
即使是被饥荒袭击着的索马里，也在使用伊斯兰教法。利比亚不久将会在贫穷中沉沦，他们对卡扎菲忘恩负义，不过伊拉克会更好，在那儿没有平衡。
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:12 PM
Libya's problems have just started. There are over 150 different tribes in Libya, and now, they all have guns. there is no way one tribe will drop his weapon for another tribe. Gaddafi was able to hold the country together for 40+ years. Now, an all out civil war is imminent. This is like a replay of what happened in the IRAN revolution.
利比亚的问题才开始呢。在利比亚有超过150个部落，现在，他们都有了枪。没办法让一个部落对另一个部落放下枪。卡扎菲让这个国家团结在一起了40多年，现在，一场内战即将来临。简直就是伊拉克的翻版。
Howcome NATO is not in Syria, what's happening in Syria right now is worse than what started NATO's intervention in Libya. Hopefully, someday the west will realise that they can't always meddle in other people's country. I can't believe they supported this barbaric rebels. I'm not saying Gaddafi is all that but, this rebels are worse. I expected more from Russia and China, they shouldn't have allowed this to happen, no one else had the power to confront NATO. I feel so sorry for Libya, the worst has just begun. They don't like to see peace in Africa, they know peace in Africa means that we will prosper more than them. Long live Africa!!!
为什么北约不在叙利亚？在叙利亚发生的事件比导致北约进入的利比亚事件更严重。希望将来某一天，西方能认识到他们不能总是干涉其他国家的事物。我真不敢相信他们居然支持这些野蛮的反叛者。我不是说卡扎菲很好，可是这些反叛者更坏。我对俄罗斯和中国期望更大，他们不应该允许这一切发生，除了他们，没人有实力和北约对抗。我为利比亚感到难过，更坏的事才发生呢。他们不想看到非洲和平，他们知道非洲的和平意味着我们会比他们更加繁荣。非洲万岁！
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Hajifaty
on: August 24, 2011, 05:17 PM
I am weeping for the libya pple. See what is happening in iraq. decades to come they can't settle all these problems they have brought upon themselves.
我为利比亚人民哭泣。看看在伊拉克发生了什么。数十年过去了，他们还是不能在伊拉克擦干净自己拉的屎。
MIrhABi
on: August 24, 2011, 05:19 PM
forget about the 60k dollars and the 500 dollars he gives them for whatever reason,these people are fighting for freedom.Freedom to do whatever in their home country.One of his sons tried hijacking his government,in the end he apologized and was given an appointment by gadaffi.Can an ordinary Libyan try that?,for a country with a small population and abundant oil can it be too much if he deposits 2,000 dollars every month?.
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变，然后他道歉悔过，然后卡扎菲给了他一个职位任命。你要是一个普通利比亚人，你来试试？就算他每月给人民2000美元，对于一个人烟稀少石油资源丰富的国家来说，卡扎菲依旧拿了太多。
Seunlayi回复
MIrhABi
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变…………
You are right, Libyans believed that they deserved more from their government than what they are presently receiving especially, the area of freedom. THEY NO LONGER WILLING TO SELL THEIR FREEDOM FOR 500 DOLLARS or 60K WHATEVER.
Let us have it in mind that they are not like we Nigerians that are ready to sell our family at any amount.
你是对的，利比亚人相信他们目前享受的自由，比前政府发的钱更重要。不过，他们马上就会将这自由以500美元或是6万美元的价格卖掉。
记住，他们不像我们这些已经以随便一个价格出卖了自己全家的尼日利亚人。
Fire007
on: August 24, 2011, 05:25 PM
If this is true, then Nigeria needs a Gaddafi, as non of our Rulers(they are not Leaders) have done half.
Goodluck is just clueless !!!
如果楼主说的都是真的，我们尼日利亚人也需要一个卡扎菲，而不是我们的统治者（他们不是我们的领袖）。
祝人好运是没意义的。
buzugee (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:28 PM
cant believe yall are supporting an arab nation. wtfff all you ungrateful nigerians how many of you are out in the libyan embassy queuing for libyan visa ? all you crazies are out in the american and british embassies all day and night clamouring for visas to come to america and europe. well why do you think america and europe, that you so desperately want to go to, are the way they are ? the machinery that keeps those economies the way they are is FUEL. that economy is driven with oil. if oil supply stops, those economies will grind to a halt. i know so many of you are writing from your places of comfort in europe and america. dont you see the hypocrisy of this ? you enjoy the spoils of the west but you are against what produces these spoils ?. believe it or not ghaddafi is getting raided because he declared he wanted to start trading with china and russia, nothing more nothing less. if there is any revelation in this whole debacle, it is that
真不敢相信你们支持一个阿拉伯国家。你们这些健忘的尼日利亚人。你们中有多少人在为了一张签证在利比亚大使馆排队？你们这些疯子整日整夜的在美国欧洲大使馆外为了一张前往美国欧洲的签证排队。你们绝望的挣扎，可路在哪里呢？维持经济的机器需要燃料，经济是靠石油来前进的。如果石油供应停止，经济立刻停止发展。我知道你们这些人正在你们的欧洲美国的舒适的房间里面打字。这难道不虚伪吗？你们享受着西方的战利品，却反对获得战利品的过程。不管你们信不信，卡扎菲会被袭击。因为他公开宣称他想和中国与俄罗斯做生意。这或多或少的揭露了这场叛乱的原因。
1, china and russia are poosies for not backing ghaddafi
1，中国和俄罗斯众所周知不支持卡扎菲。
2, contrary to belief, the money derived from oil is not why all these wars are fought. there is not that much money derived from oil. so this is not a monetary thing. the wars are fought for the control of oil because it is the oil that runs the economies of the west. without the oil they are doomed. they are not starting wars to steal the tashere money your oil makes, they are starting wars to have ACCESS to the oil. so either way, your country is not losing much.,
2，恰恰相反，战斗的原因并不是卖石油的钱。卖石油并没有太多钱。所以与钱无关。战斗的原因，是为了控制石油，因为西方经济是靠石油推动的。没有石油，他们就会停滞。他们开启战争并不是为了偷你石油的钱，开启战争是为了拥有石油的使用权。所以无论如何，你的国家不会失去太多。
3, and this is a personal gripe i have with arabs. arabs are single handedly responsible for destroying all black civilizations even before the europeans came. it was the systematic destruction of black civilizations for thousands of years by the arabs that left us exposed and ill equipped to defend ourselves agaiinst the euros. the arabs broke us down for over a 1000 years and the euros just swooped in and took the dregs. what you didnt know libya, egypt, morocco, algeria etc etc were part of black africa till the arabs occupied it after killing us all and beating us down further south ? you aint knowing ? thats our land. personally i say fork em all. i got no allegiance to the arabs or the euros. but at least i can benefit from the euros
3，这是我对阿拉伯人的一点个人牢骚。阿拉伯人应该独自为所有被破坏的黑人文明负责，甚至早至欧洲人来之前。正式因为阿拉伯人对黑人文明系统性的摧毁，才让我们在面对欧洲人时赤手空拳。阿拉伯人数千年来攻击我们，欧洲人却只是猛冲过来抢点渣滓。你不知道，利比亚，埃及，摩洛哥，阿尔及利亚等，以前都是黑人的地方，直到被阿拉伯人占据，我们黑人被杀光，然后在更远的南方攻击我们。你们这些白痴知道吗？那是我们的土地。
这就是我要说的话。我不会效忠于阿拉伯人或是欧洲人，不过起码我可以从欧洲人那弄点好处。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Rgp92
on: August 24, 2011, 06:10 PM
Just wait and see, Libya will be another Sudan: Black vs Arab
等着看吧，利比亚会是下一个苏丹：黑人VS阿拉伯人
Dj zzyzx (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:24 PM
i pity Libyans, in there graves they will regret ever picking arms and forcing gadaffi out of power, Gadaffi was the only African president dat resisted western puppeting, he proposed the African Union and a united Africa all he gat now is a divided Libya, all i giv libya is one year and Iraq will be better than them
Koffi annan said that the moment the west will stop poking it's nose into UN affairs, the world will becom a better place, BLACK GLORY
为利比亚人惋惜。就算到了坟墓，他们还是会为自己举手强行赶走卡扎菲的行为后悔的。卡扎菲是非洲唯一一个敢于和西方对抗的领导人。是他提出非洲联盟，北约给他的回报就是现在分裂的利比亚，我认为一年以后伊拉克都要比利比亚强。
Koffi annan说过，如果西方能停止他们嗅向非洲联盟的鼻子，世界会更加美好。荣耀属于黑人！
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:37 PM
By the time they unfreeze libya's assets and money, some people somewhere will become overnight billionaires.
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
all4naija (m)回复
omoekoni (m)
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
Do you think Muammar Gaddafi and his family are not billionaires?
你以为卡扎菲及其家庭不是亿万富翁？
Rastamann
on: August 24, 2011, 06:51 PM
Why a mistake after ruling for aver 40 years? Africans like power a lot, how can a man rule for more than 40 years and still clutch to power at all cost? he will be lucky if he is not killed.
统治40年难道不是个错误吗？非洲人喜欢权力，一个人怎么可能在统治超过40年之后还试图不惜一切代价抓紧权力？他没被杀就够幸运的了。
http://www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/2927.html
Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi?
作者:贱宗首席弟子 发布日期:2011-09-12 09:50:31 浏览:2178
译文简介:这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。译文来源:原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-743332.0.html正文翻译:playmode (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
I have been studying Libya since this uprising started and i can't shake off the feeling that Libyans may have been ungrateful to Gaddafi. Libya was country that for the past 41 years prospered and was never in debt. However in the last 6 months Libya has become a debtor not to mention the number of infrastructure destroyed by NATO bombs. If care is not take the new Government of Libya will have to borrow from the west to repair their infrastructure.
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的国家，从未欠过任何外债。然而过去的六个月，利比亚成为了债务国，更不用提那些被北约炸弹摧毁的数量巨大的基础设施。不出意外，利比亚新政权肯定会为了重建基础设施而向西方举债。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
If you look at some of the good things Gaddafi as done as indicated below you will agree with me that Nigerians would have appreciated a leader like this. Don't get me wrong, Gaddafi has got his faults but he was a leader that provided the basics for his people.
如果你同意下面我所列的这些卡扎菲做的好事情，那么尼日利亚人会对一个如卡扎菲一样的领袖点头赞许。别误解我，卡扎菲已为他犯下的错付出代价了，但是他依旧是一个为他的人们提供基础设施的领袖。
Here are the GOOD and BAD of Gaddafi's rule.
下面是卡扎菲统治下的好与坏。
The GOOD
好的方面
1. The government of Muammar brought the Libyan government from poverty and debt, to prosperity and debt-free status in 41 years
41年来卡扎菲政权将利比亚从贫穷和债务中拖出来，成为一个繁荣、无外债的国家。
2. Education from grade school through to college is free in Libya.
在利比亚从小学到大学，教育免费。
3. Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.
医疗免费，利比亚的制药业和医院设施与欧洲一样高质量。
4. Libya ranks No. 53 on the United Nations Index of Human Development.
在联合国的人类发展指数上，利比亚排名第53位。
5. Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa (even better than South Africa,Mauritius and Seychelles).
在非洲，利比亚有着最高标准的生活水平（甚至比南非，毛里求斯和塞舌尔群岛要高）
6. Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
利比亚免费提供任何想要耕作的人的土地种子。
7. There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home.
事实上在利比亚所有无家可归的人都能领到房子。
8. Women in Libya have equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice.
利比亚妇女有平等的权利，不仅仅是写在纸上的理论，实际也是如此。
9. Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month.
在卡扎菲的 石油收益分享计划中，每个利比亚人每月银行户头会收到500美元。
10. On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please
每对利比亚夫妇新婚，政府会赠与60000美元作为礼物。
I could list a few more but my point is that here in Nigeria we are yet to really enjoy any if not all of the the above.
我还可以继续写下去，我的观点是，如果上述福利我们尼日利亚人能享受到，哪怕只是一部分，我们也会很高兴。
The bad:
坏的方面
Lack of democracy, opposition movements have always been dealt with harshly
缺乏民主，反对政府通常会遭到严厉的制裁。
The state was virtually family owned
国家实际上掌控在卡扎菲家族手中。
Military involvement and meddling in other North African countries as well as support for despots like Charles Taylor.
在军事上干预北非其他国家，支持像Charles Taylor这样的独裁者。
My opinion is that the whole debacle over the West meddling in Libya has nothing to do with oil but more to do with control in the middle east as well as causing chaos in those countries that always had major issues with Israel.
对于西方干预造成的灾难，我的观点是，他们不仅仅是为了石油，更多的是为了控制中东，在这些国家制造混乱，这样对以色列更有益。
Read between the lines people. I do not condone dictators don't get me wrong but it appears the West chooses which dictators to support ( Dubai has no democracy what so ever, they do not have elections), depending on who is willing to bend over.
正在阅读的朋友，我并不是支持独裁者，请不要误解我。不过似乎西方会选择一些独裁者去支持（迪拜也没有民主，他们甚至没法参与选举），选择的标准取决于是否向西方卑躬屈膝。
评论翻译:marcus1234
on: August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
wow 60,000 $ after marriage?? whatt the
哇，结婚之后给6W美元？我X……
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
playmode (m)
Quote from: marcus1234 on August 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
I was also shocked when i found out.Apparently his leadership techniques are detailed in his book which can be found here : http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm .Apart from his ruthless side ,he was a great leader.Imagine how he would have used our Oil money in Nigeria to make people's lives better if he was our president ?
当我发现这件事时，我也很震撼。显而易见的是，卡扎菲的统治技巧在如下他的书中有详细说明。
http://www.greencharter.com/files/gb.htm抛开他的冷酷无情，他事实上是一个伟大的领袖。想象一下，如果他是我们的领袖，他会如何利用尼日利亚的石油来改善人民的生活？
belabela (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 12:00 PM
Time will tell. But I believe they just lost their freedom
时间会证明一切。我相信他们会失去他们的自由。
cap28
on: August 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
You got that right. Libya is going to end up just like nigeria where you have a useless puppet carrying out the dictates of america and europe - the upsetting thing about this whole thing is that 90% of the population of libya do not want this criminal gang.
你是对的。利比亚的结局将和尼日利亚一样，成为美国和欧洲手中的木偶-整个事件中最可悲的是，利比亚将近90%的人不支持这些罪犯。
Before this current attack on Tripoli NATO threatened to burn the entire city if Gadaffi refused to relinquish power, they are currently using helicopters which are flying low to strafe ANYONE who tries to fight to repel the rebels from Tripoli, this was how the rebels were able to gain access into Gadaffi's compound, looting, rap.e and murder is going on as we speak while the western media totally ignores it and reports LIES, LIES, LIES. As you know these lies have already been exposed when Saif al islam who is supposed to have been arrested made a reappearance.
在这次攻击的黎波里前，北约威胁卡扎菲，如果他拒绝缴械投降，他们会燃烧整个城市，他们现在正在用直升机低空飞行，猛烈炮轰那些在的黎波里试图击退反叛者的人，这就是为什么反叛者能进入卡扎菲统治地带的原因。在我们说话的这会，抢劫，强奸和谋杀正在上演，西方媒体完全无视，只是不断重复着谎言，谎言，谎言。大伙都知道，诸如萨哈夫.伊斯兰（卡扎菲的儿子）被捕这种已被揭露了的谎言正在不断再现。
whyis the world allowing this atrocity to happen.
世界为什么会允许这种暴行发生。
horny4u (f)
on: August 24, 2011, 04:50 PM
If the wall ( Libya) has no opening the lizard (Nato) cannot get in,
墙壁（利比亚）没有打开前，蜥蜴（北约）是不能钻进来的。
A great leader understands the dynamics of continuation , Libya is not a family ,, it is a nation and Ghaddaffi should have used the democratic method of leadership so there was a free and fair election.
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的选举。
People must vote for their leaders, no point going to sit on the top of a tree where you can see the mountain top only to start feeling like you are on the mountain becos once the tree falls you are back to square one and will have to climb the mountain to see its top.
人民必须选举他们心仪的领袖，而不是毫无意义的爬到可以看到远处山峰的树顶，让自己感觉像在山巅。因为一旦树倒下了，你还是会回到地面，你还是得重新爬山，才能欣赏山巅的美景。
At least Nigeria is sorting itself out daily, and climbing our mountain small by small, our elections are getting better every time and we are not being run by a single family.
起码尼日利亚是按照自己的日程表来运行的，它在一点一点往山顶爬去，我们的选举一次比一次好，我们也没有被一个家族统治。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Cinzo
on: August 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
This is what I have been shouting from the rooftops since! Give me electricity,good roads,good health care system and you can loot all the treasury for all I care.
But these are not even in place!
Libyans will wake up soon and realize they have shot themselves in the foot.
这就是我曾经在屋顶咆哮过的话！给我电力，良好的道路，良好的医疗保障系统，你可以拿走国库里所有的东西，那玩意我不关心。
可那一切根本没发生。
利比亚人很快就会醒过来的，他们会认识到时他们自己将自己的根斩断了。
Macroworld
August 24, 2011, 04:55 PM
All your arguments are well founded and balanced. My only concern is why are the Citizens who have benefited from such State Support not supporting the government at this time. I am personally not sure what is happening here, because if Nigerians have such a leader. government and system that uses integral proportion of the revenue from its natural resources to support its People Like the Libyan example highlighted above. I am 100% certain that Nigerians will rally round such a leader, no matter what the propaganda or externalities are. I am aware there will be argument about length of leadership, Leadership style ( harsh) and so on.
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，在这种情况下我们会怎么做。利比亚就是那种取之于民用之于民的典型国家。我干百分之百的肯定，如果尼日利亚有这么一个领导，无论外部宣传如何，我们会始支持他。我想那边应该有诸如领袖任期长短，政府是否过于严格等问题的争论。
Islamrules回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
I vote for you
我支持你。
cinzo回复
horny4u (f)
一个伟大的领袖应该懂得随机应变，利比亚不是一个家庭，它是一个国家。卡扎菲应该使用民主的方法来选举，那儿应该有一场自由而公平的………………
It's not about elections! It's about getting the dividends of democracy. What have we gained in all the years of democracy?
这与选举无关！事实是希望能分享到民主的好处。可是这些年来我们从民主里收获了什么呢？
Hajifaty回复
playmode (m) （楼主）
这次起义发生前，我曾经在利比亚学习过。我不能摆脱这种感觉：利比亚对卡扎菲是忘恩负义的。41年来利比亚是一个独立自主的…………
Where are the fools that are comparing Gaddafi with the foolish nigeria leaders. The libya pple have lost their country,wealth and oil to small group of criminals and their western masters.The jihadist will take over soon and sharia law will be the national constitution according to the NTC statements in DOHA. Its a long film and no one can predict the END
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生，伊斯兰法律将会成为国家的宪法。这部电影很长，没人能预测结局。
Cinzo回复
Macroworld
你的观点论据充分，逻辑合理。我唯一关心的是，享受国家如此福利的国民为什么在这个时候不支持政府。如果尼日利亚有这么一个…………
Guy the war was not between Ghadaffi and the rebels! The war was between Ghaddaffi and NATO! Do you think if left to the rebels alone they would have been able to oust Ghaddaffi?
伙计，这不是卡扎菲和反叛者之间的战争！这是卡扎菲和北约之间的战争！难道你认为单靠那些反叛者，他们能赶走卡扎菲吗？
Islamrules回复
Hajifaty
将卡扎菲同愚蠢的尼日利亚领导人相比是愚蠢的。利比亚人民的国家，财富与石油已经被那伙反叛者和他们的西方主人抢去了。圣战马上会发生…………
Sharia law will be implemented ? Whaooo! that is a great achievement. The dream of every muslims.
Even famine ransacked somalia is using it. Libya too will soon wallow in poverty, they are ungrateful to Gaddafi but Iraq will be better because there wont be stability.
伊斯兰教法将会被实施？哇哦，这是伟大的成就。每一个MSL的梦想。
即使是被饥荒袭击着的索马里，也在使用伊斯兰教法。利比亚不久将会在贫穷中沉沦，他们对卡扎菲忘恩负义，不过伊拉克会更好，在那儿没有平衡。
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:12 PM
Libya's problems have just started. There are over 150 different tribes in Libya, and now, they all have guns. there is no way one tribe will drop his weapon for another tribe. Gaddafi was able to hold the country together for 40+ years. Now, an all out civil war is imminent. This is like a replay of what happened in the IRAN revolution.
利比亚的问题才开始呢。在利比亚有超过150个部落，现在，他们都有了枪。没办法让一个部落对另一个部落放下枪。卡扎菲让这个国家团结在一起了40多年，现在，一场内战即将来临。简直就是伊拉克的翻版。
Howcome NATO is not in Syria, what's happening in Syria right now is worse than what started NATO's intervention in Libya. Hopefully, someday the west will realise that they can't always meddle in other people's country. I can't believe they supported this barbaric rebels. I'm not saying Gaddafi is all that but, this rebels are worse. I expected more from Russia and China, they shouldn't have allowed this to happen, no one else had the power to confront NATO. I feel so sorry for Libya, the worst has just begun. They don't like to see peace in Africa, they know peace in Africa means that we will prosper more than them. Long live Africa!!!
为什么北约不在叙利亚？在叙利亚发生的事件比导致北约进入的利比亚事件更严重。希望将来某一天，西方能认识到他们不能总是干涉其他国家的事物。我真不敢相信他们居然支持这些野蛮的反叛者。我不是说卡扎菲很好，可是这些反叛者更坏。我对俄罗斯和中国期望更大，他们不应该允许这一切发生，除了他们，没人有实力和北约对抗。我为利比亚感到难过，更坏的事才发生呢。他们不想看到非洲和平，他们知道非洲的和平意味着我们会比他们更加繁荣。非洲万岁！
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Hajifaty
on: August 24, 2011, 05:17 PM
I am weeping for the libya pple. See what is happening in iraq. decades to come they can't settle all these problems they have brought upon themselves.
我为利比亚人民哭泣。看看在伊拉克发生了什么。数十年过去了，他们还是不能在伊拉克擦干净自己拉的屎。
MIrhABi
on: August 24, 2011, 05:19 PM
forget about the 60k dollars and the 500 dollars he gives them for whatever reason,these people are fighting for freedom.Freedom to do whatever in their home country.One of his sons tried hijacking his government,in the end he apologized and was given an appointment by gadaffi.Can an ordinary Libyan try that?,for a country with a small population and abundant oil can it be too much if he deposits 2,000 dollars every month?.
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变，然后他道歉悔过，然后卡扎菲给了他一个职位任命。你要是一个普通利比亚人，你来试试？就算他每月给人民2000美元，对于一个人烟稀少石油资源丰富的国家来说，卡扎菲依旧拿了太多。
Seunlayi回复
MIrhABi
这些人在为自由战斗，当然忘掉了那些无论以什么理由卡扎菲给他们的什么6万美元500美元的。为了能自由的做任何事。曾经卡扎菲的一个儿子试图政变…………
You are right, Libyans believed that they deserved more from their government than what they are presently receiving especially, the area of freedom. THEY NO LONGER WILLING TO SELL THEIR FREEDOM FOR 500 DOLLARS or 60K WHATEVER.
Let us have it in mind that they are not like we Nigerians that are ready to sell our family at any amount.
你是对的，利比亚人相信他们目前享受的自由，比前政府发的钱更重要。不过，他们马上就会将这自由以500美元或是6万美元的价格卖掉。
记住，他们不像我们这些已经以随便一个价格出卖了自己全家的尼日利亚人。
Fire007
on: August 24, 2011, 05:25 PM
If this is true, then Nigeria needs a Gaddafi, as non of our Rulers(they are not Leaders) have done half.
Goodluck is just clueless !!!
如果楼主说的都是真的，我们尼日利亚人也需要一个卡扎菲，而不是我们的统治者（他们不是我们的领袖）。
祝人好运是没意义的。
buzugee (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 05:28 PM
cant believe yall are supporting an arab nation. wtfff all you ungrateful nigerians how many of you are out in the libyan embassy queuing for libyan visa ? all you crazies are out in the american and british embassies all day and night clamouring for visas to come to america and europe. well why do you think america and europe, that you so desperately want to go to, are the way they are ? the machinery that keeps those economies the way they are is FUEL. that economy is driven with oil. if oil supply stops, those economies will grind to a halt. i know so many of you are writing from your places of comfort in europe and america. dont you see the hypocrisy of this ? you enjoy the spoils of the west but you are against what produces these spoils ?. believe it or not ghaddafi is getting raided because he declared he wanted to start trading with china and russia, nothing more nothing less. if there is any revelation in this whole debacle, it is that
真不敢相信你们支持一个阿拉伯国家。你们这些健忘的尼日利亚人。你们中有多少人在为了一张签证在利比亚大使馆排队？你们这些疯子整日整夜的在美国欧洲大使馆外为了一张前往美国欧洲的签证排队。你们绝望的挣扎，可路在哪里呢？维持经济的机器需要燃料，经济是靠石油来前进的。如果石油供应停止，经济立刻停止发展。我知道你们这些人正在你们的欧洲美国的舒适的房间里面打字。这难道不虚伪吗？你们享受着西方的战利品，却反对获得战利品的过程。不管你们信不信，卡扎菲会被袭击。因为他公开宣称他想和中国与俄罗斯做生意。这或多或少的揭露了这场叛乱的原因。
1, china and russia are poosies for not backing ghaddafi
1，中国和俄罗斯众所周知不支持卡扎菲。
2, contrary to belief, the money derived from oil is not why all these wars are fought. there is not that much money derived from oil. so this is not a monetary thing. the wars are fought for the control of oil because it is the oil that runs the economies of the west. without the oil they are doomed. they are not starting wars to steal the tashere money your oil makes, they are starting wars to have ACCESS to the oil. so either way, your country is not losing much.,
2，恰恰相反，战斗的原因并不是卖石油的钱。卖石油并没有太多钱。所以与钱无关。战斗的原因，是为了控制石油，因为西方经济是靠石油推动的。没有石油，他们就会停滞。他们开启战争并不是为了偷你石油的钱，开启战争是为了拥有石油的使用权。所以无论如何，你的国家不会失去太多。
3, and this is a personal gripe i have with arabs. arabs are single handedly responsible for destroying all black civilizations even before the europeans came. it was the systematic destruction of black civilizations for thousands of years by the arabs that left us exposed and ill equipped to defend ourselves agaiinst the euros. the arabs broke us down for over a 1000 years and the euros just swooped in and took the dregs. what you didnt know libya, egypt, morocco, algeria etc etc were part of black africa till the arabs occupied it after killing us all and beating us down further south ? you aint knowing ? thats our land. personally i say fork em all. i got no allegiance to the arabs or the euros. but at least i can benefit from the euros
3，这是我对阿拉伯人的一点个人牢骚。阿拉伯人应该独自为所有被破坏的黑人文明负责，甚至早至欧洲人来之前。正式因为阿拉伯人对黑人文明系统性的摧毁，才让我们在面对欧洲人时赤手空拳。阿拉伯人数千年来攻击我们，欧洲人却只是猛冲过来抢点渣滓。你不知道，利比亚，埃及，摩洛哥，阿尔及利亚等，以前都是黑人的地方，直到被阿拉伯人占据，我们黑人被杀光，然后在更远的南方攻击我们。你们这些白痴知道吗？那是我们的土地。
这就是我要说的话。我不会效忠于阿拉伯人或是欧洲人，不过起码我可以从欧洲人那弄点好处。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:贱宗首席弟子
Rgp92
on: August 24, 2011, 06:10 PM
Just wait and see, Libya will be another Sudan: Black vs Arab
等着看吧，利比亚会是下一个苏丹：黑人VS阿拉伯人
Dj zzyzx (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:24 PM
i pity Libyans, in there graves they will regret ever picking arms and forcing gadaffi out of power, Gadaffi was the only African president dat resisted western puppeting, he proposed the African Union and a united Africa all he gat now is a divided Libya, all i giv libya is one year and Iraq will be better than them
Koffi annan said that the moment the west will stop poking it's nose into UN affairs, the world will becom a better place, BLACK GLORY
为利比亚人惋惜。就算到了坟墓，他们还是会为自己举手强行赶走卡扎菲的行为后悔的。卡扎菲是非洲唯一一个敢于和西方对抗的领导人。是他提出非洲联盟，北约给他的回报就是现在分裂的利比亚，我认为一年以后伊拉克都要比利比亚强。
Koffi annan说过，如果西方能停止他们嗅向非洲联盟的鼻子，世界会更加美好。荣耀属于黑人！
omoekoni (m)
on: August 24, 2011, 06:37 PM
By the time they unfreeze libya's assets and money, some people somewhere will become overnight billionaires.
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
all4naija (m)回复
omoekoni (m)
当利比亚的资产解冻时，某些人会突然成为亿万富翁。
Do you think Muammar Gaddafi and his family are not billionaires?
你以为卡扎菲及其家庭不是亿万富翁？
Rastamann
on: August 24, 2011, 06:51 PM
Why a mistake after ruling for aver 40 years? Africans like power a lot, how can a man rule for more than 40 years and still clutch to power at all cost? he will be lucky if he is not killed.
统治40年难道不是个错误吗？非洲人喜欢权力，一个人怎么可能在统治超过40年之后还试图不惜一切代价抓紧权力？他没被杀就够幸运的了。
去看看伊拉克和阿富汗吧, 那就是答案
这戏越来越好看了。
让萨科齐来回答这个问题 
聪明的黑蜀黍
某些人眼里，自由和选票高于一切，比吃饭重要多了。
某些人眼里，自由和选票高于一切，比吃饭重要多了。
卡大佐本身也不是什么好鸟儿.
民主斗士们会说，人权高于主权，实际上斗士们才不关心人民的日子是不是好过了是否吃饱了，民族的力量国家的力量是否增强了，他们只关心他们自己——往往是教师律师这样不愁吃穿的人—他们的诉求是否得到满足。打个比方，国内那些民逗们你们看他们什么时候关心过贫困山区的穷人？什么时候关心过上不起学的孩子？
居庸叠翠 发表于 2011-9-12 15:58 ![]()
某些人眼里，自由和选票高于一切，比吃饭重要多了。
问题是这“自由和选票”有多真实嗫？
某些人眼里，自由和选票高于一切，比吃饭重要多了。
问题是这“自由和选票”有多真实嗫？
说实话，个人以为这次政变就是西方成功瓦解敌对势力的一个案例罢了。对其国内某些人而言，正好上位。
至于普通人……只能祝他们好运吧，不过偶不太看好今后的发展。
如果说是因为卡大佐一家拿得太多，普通民众分得太少，为这造反还可以理解。。。但如果仅仅是为什么见鬼的自由就抛弃现有的高福利，那真TM脑残了。所以要判断看利比亚反对派这把火到底放得对不对，还是得再等等，看看没有卡大佐一家后的利比亚人到底能分多少。
看来LBY这戏很长是得到公认的
这个错误不是利比亚犯下的，他们连犯错误的权利都没有，反倒是欧洲赶走卡扎菲真的能完成地中海计划吗？弄不好是欧洲的阿富汗。
我对俄罗斯和中国期望更大，他们不应该允许这一切发生，除了他们，没人有实力和北约对抗。
很遗憾，毛子已经把卡扎菲卖了，我们也不会去保这个到处揭兔子短的二货
很遗憾，毛子已经把卡扎菲卖了，我们也不会去保这个到处揭兔子短的二货欧洲是很想让利比亚局势稳定下来，然后去独享战争红利的。但这都不是中俄甚至是美国想看到的。
卡上校本来就不是什么好鸟
教育、医疗免费，尼玛利比亚淫民真是生活在水深火热之中……
那个每个利比亚人每月500美元，应该只是卡扎菲的一个计划，而不是实际落实的，这基本相当于利比亚一年石油收入的全部了，也就是卡扎菲提出的按人头分配石油的提议。有个回复比较有意思，说这么分太少，说“每个月每人2000美元，卡扎菲家族依旧拿了太多”，显然没经过简单的计算。
“2009年至2010年，卡扎菲政府两次强行与外国公司重签石油协议，调高外国公司上交利比亚政府的石油份额，比如中国台湾中华石油公司已经被逼到要上交90%，而一般的西方公司也要上交86%左右，外国公司对此抱怨很多。”
卡扎菲竟然敢这么做，那些欧洲国家当然很想推翻卡扎菲政权了。
“2009年至2010年，卡扎菲政府两次强行与外国公司重签石油协议，调高外国公司上交利比亚政府的石油份额，比如中国台湾中华石油公司已经被逼到要上交90%，而一般的西方公司也要上交86%左右，外国公司对此抱怨很多。”
卡扎菲竟然敢这么做，那些欧洲国家当然很想推翻卡扎菲政权了。
以后利比亚肯定是很皿猪的，皿猪到无政府状态。
自作自受，有因就有果
对卡扎菲如此，对反对卡扎菲的公民也如此
对反对派如此，对法国也将如此
也许只有美国是赢家
对卡扎菲如此，对反对卡扎菲的公民也如此
对反对派如此，对法国也将如此
也许只有美国是赢家
赶走卡扎菲完全是北约干的。
利比亚这样的有很多部落组成的松散国家，没有一个强人统治，很容易出现内斗和散架。
吃饱了撑得慌，当当反对派消消食。等所谓的民主自由不能当饭吃的时候再说。