《纽约时报》:南水北调——中国政府思路广啊

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/27 13:53:40
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/world/asia/02water.html?_r=1&hp

To Quench Thirst of Its North, China Plant to Siphon the South

为应对北方干旱,中国从南方调水

By EDWARD WONG
Published: June 1, 2011

A chronic drought is ravaging farmland. The Gobi Desert is inching south. The Yellow River, the so-called birthplace of Chinese civilization, is so polluted it can no longer supply drinking water. The rapid growth of megacities — 22 million people in Beijing and 12 million in Tianjin alone — has drained underground aquifers that took millenniums to fill.

持续的干旱严重影响着农田。戈壁沙漠正在向南蔓延。被称作中华文明摇篮的黄河已被严重污染,不能提供饮用水。大型城市人口快速膨胀(北京达2200万,天津达1200万),不得不抽干地下水,这些要花上千年才能恢复。

Not atypically, the Chinese government has a grand and expensive solution: Divert at least six trillion gallons of water each year hundreds of miles from the other great Chinese river, the Yangtze, to slake the thirst of the north China plain and its 440 million people.

中国政府思路广啊,采取了世界罕见的应对措施:从中国另一条大江——长江,每年调运6万亿加仑水供应到拥有4.4亿人口的华北平原。

The engineering feat, called the South-North Water Diversion Project, is China’s most ambitious attempt to subjugate nature. It would be like channeling water from the Mississippi River to meet the drinking needs of Boston, New York and Washington. Its $62 billion price tag is twice that of the Three Gorges Dam. And not unlike that project, which Chinese officials last month admitted had “urgent problems,” the water diversion scheme is increasingly mired in concerns about its cost, its environmental impact and the sacrifices poor people in the provinces are told to make for those in richer cities.

这项工程名为“南水北调”,简直就是工程师们的盛宴,也展示了中国征服自然的雄心壮志。可以把他想像为从密西西比河调水到波士顿、纽约和华盛顿。这项工程耗资620亿,是三峡的两倍。中国政府上月承认三峡工程存在严重问题。与此不同,“南水北调”的问题在于其成本、对环境的影响,以及为了相对富裕的城市人的利益牺牲贫穷的农民。

Three artificial channels from the Yangtze would transport precious water from the south, which itself is increasingly afflicted by droughts; the region is suffering its worst one in 50 years. The project’s human cost is staggering — along the middle route, which starts here in Hubei Province at a gigantic reservoir and snakes 800 miles to Beijing, about 350,000 villagers are being relocated to make way for the canal. Many are being resettled far from their homes and given low-grade farmland; in Hubei, thousands of people have been moved to the grounds of a former prison.

南水北调共有三条人工渠。其实南方也正饱受干旱困扰,这个地区正经受50年来最严重的干旱。这项工程的人力成本无法计量。其中线始于湖北省的一个大型水库,蜿蜒北上800公里到达北京。为筑水渠,35万农民不得不迁移让路。许多人被安置在远离故乡的贫瘠土地上。在湖北省,数以千计的人被安置的地方以前是座监狱。

日啊,后面太长了,不翻译了,自己看吧。

“Look at this dead yellow earth,” said Li Jiaying, 67, a hunched woman hobbling to her new concrete home clutching a sickle and a bundle of dry sticks for firewood. “Our old home wasn’t even being flooded for the project and we were asked to leave. No one wanted to leave.”

About 150,000 people had been resettled by this spring. Many more will follow. A recent front-page article in People’s Daily, the Communist Party’s mouthpiece, said the project “has entered a key period of construction.”

Some Chinese scientists say the diversion could destroy the ecology of the southern rivers, making them as useless as the Yellow River. The government has neglected to do proper impact studies, they say. There are precedents in the United States. Lakes in California were damaged and destroyed when the Owens River was diverted in the early 20th century to build Los Angeles.

Here, more than 14 million people in Hubei would be affected if the project damaged the Han River, the tributary of the Yangtze where the middle route starts, said Du Yun, a geographer at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Wuhan, the provincial capital.

Officials in provinces south of Beijing and Tianjin have privately raised objections and are haggling over water pricing and compensation; midlevel officials in water-scarce Hebei Province are frustrated that four reservoirs in their region have sent more than 775 million cubic meters, or 205 billion gallons, of water to Beijing since September 2008 in an “emergency” supplement to the middle route.

Overseers of the eastern route, which is being built alongside an ancient waterway for barges called the Grand Canal, have found that the drinking water to be brought to Tianjin from the Yangtze is so polluted that 426 sewage treatment plants have to be built; water pollution control on the route takes up 44 percent of the $5 billion investment, according to Xinhua, the official news agency. The source water from the Han River on the middle route is cleaner. But the main channel will cross 205 rivers and streams in the industrial heartland of China before reaching Beijing.

“When water comes to Beijing, there’s the danger of the water not being safe to drink,” said Dai Qing, an environmental advocate who has written critically about the Three Gorges Dam.

“I think this project is a product of the totalitarian regime in Beijing as it seeks to take away the resources of others,” she added. “I am totally opposed to this project.”

Ms. Dai and some Chinese scholars say the government should instead be limiting the population in the northern cities and encouraging water conservation.

The project’s official Web site says that the diversion “will be an important and basic facility for mitigating the existing crisis of water resources in north China” and that sufficient studies have been done. Wang Jian, a former environmental and water management official with the Beijing government and the State Council, China’s cabinet, agreed that the project “carries huge risks,” but he said there were no other options given the severity of the current water shortage.

The middle route is to start major operations in 2014, and the eastern route is expected to be operational by 2013. The lines were originally supposed to open by the 2008 Summer Olympics, but have been hobbled by myriad problems.

The diversion project was first studied in the 1950s, after Mao uttered: “Water in the south is abundant, water in the north scarce. If possible, it would be fine to borrow a little.”

In a country afflicted by severe cycles of droughts and floods and peasant rebellions that often resulted from them, control of water has always been important to Chinese rulers. Emperors sought to legitimize their rule with large-scale water projects like the Grand Canal or the irrigation system in Dujiangyan.

After the initial studies in the 1950s, the government did not look seriously again at the project until the 1990s, when north China was hit hard by droughts. In 2002, the State Council gave the green light for work to start on the middle and eastern routes; the western route, which would run at an average altitude of 10,000 to 13,000 feet across the Tibetan plateau to help irrigate the Yellow River basin, has been deemed too difficult to start for now.

Officials in Tianjin are so skeptical of the eastern route’s ability to deliver drinkable water that they are looking at desalinization as an alternative. Planners have more hope for the middle route, though the engineering is a much greater challenge — the canal has to be built entirely from scratch, with 1,774 structures constructed along its length to channel the water, since there is no pre-existing waterway like the Grand Canal to follow.

At the start of the route, the water level of the Danjiangkou Reservoir on the Han River has been raised 43 feet to 558 feet so that the water can flow downhill to Beijing. The government said the rising waters and a need to combat soil erosion necessitated moving 130,000 farmers last year from around the reservoir. Similar relocations are taking place all along the main channel, which runs through four provinces.

About 1,300 residents of Qingshan township have been moved to Xiangbei Farm, desolate land where a prison once stood. The villagers now live in sterile rows of yellow concrete houses 125 miles east of their abandoned ancestral homes. A government sign in the middle of the settlement says: “The land is fertile and has complete irrigation systems.”

The farmers know better. Each person is supposed to get a small plot of land free, but the soil here is well known to be exceedingly poor. The people also complain that in the government’s compensation formula, their old homes were undervalued, so many have had to pay several thousand dollars to buy new homes.

“There’s nothing here,” said Huang Jiuguo, 57. “There’s no enterprise. Our children are grown, and they need something to do.”

For three days last November, thousands of residents of a resettlement area in Qianjiang city blocked roads to protest poorly built homes and lack of promised compensation, according to a report by Radio Free Asia. Officials ordered the police to break up the rally, resulting in clashes, injuries and arrests.

Forced relocations, though, could pale next to larger fallouts from the project.

“We feel that we are still unsure how the project is going to impact on the environment, ecologies, economies and society at large,” said Mr. Du, the geographer in Wuhan, who carefully added he was not outright opposed to the project.

The central question for people in Hubei is whether the Han River, crucial to farming and industrial production hubs, will be killed to keep north China alive.

In a paper published in the Bulletin of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, Mr. Du and two co-authors estimated that the diversion project would reduce the flow of the middle and lower stretches of the Han significantly, “leading to an uphill situation for the prevention of water pollution and ecological protection.” Though the study first appeared in 2006, the government has not altered its original plan, Mr. Du said.

Central planners decided on the amount of water to be diverted based on calculations of water flow in the Han done from the 1950s to the early 1990s; since then, the water flow has dropped, partly because of prolonged droughts, but planners have made no adjustments, Mr. Du said. The amount to be diverted is more than one-third of the annual water flow. “That will exert a huge damaging impact on the river,” he said.

The Han River is already facing enormous challenges — industries are discharging more and more pollutants, companies are dredging sand to feed construction needs in nearby cities and algal bloom has hit the river hard. The diversion of water to Beijing will add to the pressures. “If the water quality cannot be ameliorated effectively, the aquatic life populations will be further decimated,” Mr. Du and his co-authors wrote.

The diversion from the Han is necessitating more complex projects to raise water levels. One side diversion brings water from the Yangtze to the Han. Another would bring water from the Three Gorges reservoir to the Danjiangkou reservoir.

Government officials in the south are keenly aware of the changes coming to the Han. In Xiangfan, officials have shuttered some small factories like paper producers and forced others to use more nonpolluting materials, said Yun Jianli, director of the environmental advocacy group Green Han River. “The local government is very concerned about the river and impact of the diversion project,” she said.

The political conflicts are obvious. Mr. Du, a member of the provincial consultative legislature, said officials in Hubei had been in constant negotiations with officials in Beijing for compensation. In the 1990s, the central government proposed a package of water projects valued at $50 million at the time to help Hubei. After rounds of negotiations, the current proposal for supplemental water projects is estimated at more than $1 billion.

The demands of the north will not abate. Migration from rural areas means Beijing’s population is growing by one million every two years, according to an essay in China Daily written last October by Hou Dongmin, a scholar of population development at Renmin University of China. “With its dwindling water resources, Beijing cannot sustain a larger population,” Mr. Hou said. “Instead, it should make serious efforts to control the population, if not reduce it.”

Beijing has about 100 cubic meters, or 26,000 gallons, of water available per person. According to a standard adopted by the United Nations, that is a fraction of the 1,000 cubic meters, or 260,000 gallons, per person that indicates chronic water scarcity.

The planning for Beijing’s growth up to 2020 by the State Council already assumes the water diversion will work, rather than planning for growth with much less water, said Mr. Wang, the former official.

City planners see a Beijing full of golf courses, swimming pools and nearby ski slopes — the model set by the West.

“Instead of transferring water to meet the growing demand of a city, we should decide the size of a city according to how much water resources it has,” Mr. Wang said. “People’s desire for development has no end.” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/world/asia/02water.html?_r=1&hp

To Quench Thirst of Its North, China Plant to Siphon the South

为应对北方干旱,中国从南方调水

By EDWARD WONG
Published: June 1, 2011

A chronic drought is ravaging farmland. The Gobi Desert is inching south. The Yellow River, the so-called birthplace of Chinese civilization, is so polluted it can no longer supply drinking water. The rapid growth of megacities — 22 million people in Beijing and 12 million in Tianjin alone — has drained underground aquifers that took millenniums to fill.

持续的干旱严重影响着农田。戈壁沙漠正在向南蔓延。被称作中华文明摇篮的黄河已被严重污染,不能提供饮用水。大型城市人口快速膨胀(北京达2200万,天津达1200万),不得不抽干地下水,这些要花上千年才能恢复。

Not atypically, the Chinese government has a grand and expensive solution: Divert at least six trillion gallons of water each year hundreds of miles from the other great Chinese river, the Yangtze, to slake the thirst of the north China plain and its 440 million people.

中国政府思路广啊,采取了世界罕见的应对措施:从中国另一条大江——长江,每年调运6万亿加仑水供应到拥有4.4亿人口的华北平原。

The engineering feat, called the South-North Water Diversion Project, is China’s most ambitious attempt to subjugate nature. It would be like channeling water from the Mississippi River to meet the drinking needs of Boston, New York and Washington. Its $62 billion price tag is twice that of the Three Gorges Dam. And not unlike that project, which Chinese officials last month admitted had “urgent problems,” the water diversion scheme is increasingly mired in concerns about its cost, its environmental impact and the sacrifices poor people in the provinces are told to make for those in richer cities.

这项工程名为“南水北调”,简直就是工程师们的盛宴,也展示了中国征服自然的雄心壮志。可以把他想像为从密西西比河调水到波士顿、纽约和华盛顿。这项工程耗资620亿,是三峡的两倍。中国政府上月承认三峡工程存在严重问题。与此不同,“南水北调”的问题在于其成本、对环境的影响,以及为了相对富裕的城市人的利益牺牲贫穷的农民。

Three artificial channels from the Yangtze would transport precious water from the south, which itself is increasingly afflicted by droughts; the region is suffering its worst one in 50 years. The project’s human cost is staggering — along the middle route, which starts here in Hubei Province at a gigantic reservoir and snakes 800 miles to Beijing, about 350,000 villagers are being relocated to make way for the canal. Many are being resettled far from their homes and given low-grade farmland; in Hubei, thousands of people have been moved to the grounds of a former prison.

南水北调共有三条人工渠。其实南方也正饱受干旱困扰,这个地区正经受50年来最严重的干旱。这项工程的人力成本无法计量。其中线始于湖北省的一个大型水库,蜿蜒北上800公里到达北京。为筑水渠,35万农民不得不迁移让路。许多人被安置在远离故乡的贫瘠土地上。在湖北省,数以千计的人被安置的地方以前是座监狱。

日啊,后面太长了,不翻译了,自己看吧。

“Look at this dead yellow earth,” said Li Jiaying, 67, a hunched woman hobbling to her new concrete home clutching a sickle and a bundle of dry sticks for firewood. “Our old home wasn’t even being flooded for the project and we were asked to leave. No one wanted to leave.”

About 150,000 people had been resettled by this spring. Many more will follow. A recent front-page article in People’s Daily, the Communist Party’s mouthpiece, said the project “has entered a key period of construction.”

Some Chinese scientists say the diversion could destroy the ecology of the southern rivers, making them as useless as the Yellow River. The government has neglected to do proper impact studies, they say. There are precedents in the United States. Lakes in California were damaged and destroyed when the Owens River was diverted in the early 20th century to build Los Angeles.

Here, more than 14 million people in Hubei would be affected if the project damaged the Han River, the tributary of the Yangtze where the middle route starts, said Du Yun, a geographer at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Wuhan, the provincial capital.

Officials in provinces south of Beijing and Tianjin have privately raised objections and are haggling over water pricing and compensation; midlevel officials in water-scarce Hebei Province are frustrated that four reservoirs in their region have sent more than 775 million cubic meters, or 205 billion gallons, of water to Beijing since September 2008 in an “emergency” supplement to the middle route.

Overseers of the eastern route, which is being built alongside an ancient waterway for barges called the Grand Canal, have found that the drinking water to be brought to Tianjin from the Yangtze is so polluted that 426 sewage treatment plants have to be built; water pollution control on the route takes up 44 percent of the $5 billion investment, according to Xinhua, the official news agency. The source water from the Han River on the middle route is cleaner. But the main channel will cross 205 rivers and streams in the industrial heartland of China before reaching Beijing.

“When water comes to Beijing, there’s the danger of the water not being safe to drink,” said Dai Qing, an environmental advocate who has written critically about the Three Gorges Dam.

“I think this project is a product of the totalitarian regime in Beijing as it seeks to take away the resources of others,” she added. “I am totally opposed to this project.”

Ms. Dai and some Chinese scholars say the government should instead be limiting the population in the northern cities and encouraging water conservation.

The project’s official Web site says that the diversion “will be an important and basic facility for mitigating the existing crisis of water resources in north China” and that sufficient studies have been done. Wang Jian, a former environmental and water management official with the Beijing government and the State Council, China’s cabinet, agreed that the project “carries huge risks,” but he said there were no other options given the severity of the current water shortage.

The middle route is to start major operations in 2014, and the eastern route is expected to be operational by 2013. The lines were originally supposed to open by the 2008 Summer Olympics, but have been hobbled by myriad problems.

The diversion project was first studied in the 1950s, after Mao uttered: “Water in the south is abundant, water in the north scarce. If possible, it would be fine to borrow a little.”

In a country afflicted by severe cycles of droughts and floods and peasant rebellions that often resulted from them, control of water has always been important to Chinese rulers. Emperors sought to legitimize their rule with large-scale water projects like the Grand Canal or the irrigation system in Dujiangyan.

After the initial studies in the 1950s, the government did not look seriously again at the project until the 1990s, when north China was hit hard by droughts. In 2002, the State Council gave the green light for work to start on the middle and eastern routes; the western route, which would run at an average altitude of 10,000 to 13,000 feet across the Tibetan plateau to help irrigate the Yellow River basin, has been deemed too difficult to start for now.

Officials in Tianjin are so skeptical of the eastern route’s ability to deliver drinkable water that they are looking at desalinization as an alternative. Planners have more hope for the middle route, though the engineering is a much greater challenge — the canal has to be built entirely from scratch, with 1,774 structures constructed along its length to channel the water, since there is no pre-existing waterway like the Grand Canal to follow.

At the start of the route, the water level of the Danjiangkou Reservoir on the Han River has been raised 43 feet to 558 feet so that the water can flow downhill to Beijing. The government said the rising waters and a need to combat soil erosion necessitated moving 130,000 farmers last year from around the reservoir. Similar relocations are taking place all along the main channel, which runs through four provinces.

About 1,300 residents of Qingshan township have been moved to Xiangbei Farm, desolate land where a prison once stood. The villagers now live in sterile rows of yellow concrete houses 125 miles east of their abandoned ancestral homes. A government sign in the middle of the settlement says: “The land is fertile and has complete irrigation systems.”

The farmers know better. Each person is supposed to get a small plot of land free, but the soil here is well known to be exceedingly poor. The people also complain that in the government’s compensation formula, their old homes were undervalued, so many have had to pay several thousand dollars to buy new homes.

“There’s nothing here,” said Huang Jiuguo, 57. “There’s no enterprise. Our children are grown, and they need something to do.”

For three days last November, thousands of residents of a resettlement area in Qianjiang city blocked roads to protest poorly built homes and lack of promised compensation, according to a report by Radio Free Asia. Officials ordered the police to break up the rally, resulting in clashes, injuries and arrests.

Forced relocations, though, could pale next to larger fallouts from the project.

“We feel that we are still unsure how the project is going to impact on the environment, ecologies, economies and society at large,” said Mr. Du, the geographer in Wuhan, who carefully added he was not outright opposed to the project.

The central question for people in Hubei is whether the Han River, crucial to farming and industrial production hubs, will be killed to keep north China alive.

In a paper published in the Bulletin of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, Mr. Du and two co-authors estimated that the diversion project would reduce the flow of the middle and lower stretches of the Han significantly, “leading to an uphill situation for the prevention of water pollution and ecological protection.” Though the study first appeared in 2006, the government has not altered its original plan, Mr. Du said.

Central planners decided on the amount of water to be diverted based on calculations of water flow in the Han done from the 1950s to the early 1990s; since then, the water flow has dropped, partly because of prolonged droughts, but planners have made no adjustments, Mr. Du said. The amount to be diverted is more than one-third of the annual water flow. “That will exert a huge damaging impact on the river,” he said.

The Han River is already facing enormous challenges — industries are discharging more and more pollutants, companies are dredging sand to feed construction needs in nearby cities and algal bloom has hit the river hard. The diversion of water to Beijing will add to the pressures. “If the water quality cannot be ameliorated effectively, the aquatic life populations will be further decimated,” Mr. Du and his co-authors wrote.

The diversion from the Han is necessitating more complex projects to raise water levels. One side diversion brings water from the Yangtze to the Han. Another would bring water from the Three Gorges reservoir to the Danjiangkou reservoir.

Government officials in the south are keenly aware of the changes coming to the Han. In Xiangfan, officials have shuttered some small factories like paper producers and forced others to use more nonpolluting materials, said Yun Jianli, director of the environmental advocacy group Green Han River. “The local government is very concerned about the river and impact of the diversion project,” she said.

The political conflicts are obvious. Mr. Du, a member of the provincial consultative legislature, said officials in Hubei had been in constant negotiations with officials in Beijing for compensation. In the 1990s, the central government proposed a package of water projects valued at $50 million at the time to help Hubei. After rounds of negotiations, the current proposal for supplemental water projects is estimated at more than $1 billion.

The demands of the north will not abate. Migration from rural areas means Beijing’s population is growing by one million every two years, according to an essay in China Daily written last October by Hou Dongmin, a scholar of population development at Renmin University of China. “With its dwindling water resources, Beijing cannot sustain a larger population,” Mr. Hou said. “Instead, it should make serious efforts to control the population, if not reduce it.”

Beijing has about 100 cubic meters, or 26,000 gallons, of water available per person. According to a standard adopted by the United Nations, that is a fraction of the 1,000 cubic meters, or 260,000 gallons, per person that indicates chronic water scarcity.

The planning for Beijing’s growth up to 2020 by the State Council already assumes the water diversion will work, rather than planning for growth with much less water, said Mr. Wang, the former official.

City planners see a Beijing full of golf courses, swimming pools and nearby ski slopes — the model set by the West.

“Instead of transferring water to meet the growing demand of a city, we should decide the size of a city according to how much water resources it has,” Mr. Wang said. “People’s desire for development has no end.”
我火星了
TG啥时候承认过三峡是个祸害??
JY们把八股解读成三峡是祸害了。。。。。。。

我也觉得南水北调是个扯淡工程,因为最近几年天气好像不大正常,南方也经常不下雨,不要拍我,我没数据,只是感觉
我日啊,太长了,我也看不完了

ps;那个说承认三峡有问题的说法是国内媒体曲解国务院文件,结果西方媒体就直接拿过去这么说了,我在CNN网站上也看到类似的说法,反正tg总是中枪
starlink 发表于 2011-6-2 08:41
我火星了
TG啥时候承认过三峡是个祸害??
鸡者说承认了就是承认。
南水北调的源头是河南省的丹江口水库吧?
华北地区的土地承载不了那么多人口,其实与其南水北调不如把钱用来攻关海水淡化。有那几百亿美金,全球招标,啥问题也能在十年内解决。
很多JY说三峡导致干旱 NND  真想抽丫的!不知如何下手
葡萄很酸啊
华北地区的土地承载不了那么多人口,其实与其南水北调不如把钱用来攻关海水淡化。有那几百亿美金,全球招标 ...
淡化的海水很难喝,冲厕所比较靠谱
而且华北靠海的不多
涩涩咖啡勺 发表于 2011-6-2 09:07
华北地区的土地承载不了那么多人口,其实与其南水北调不如把钱用来攻关海水淡化。有那几百亿美金,全球招标 ...
海水淡化技术是有的,但成本高,需要大量电。
风能、太阳能技术还不够成熟,水电很多人反坝,核电要慎重,火电不环保,怎么办呢?
壮东风 发表于 2011-6-2 09:38
海水淡化技术是有的,但成本高,需要大量电。
风能、太阳能技术还不够成熟,水电很多人反坝,核电要慎重 ...
对这些人实施断电
四木 发表于 2011-6-2 09:09
很多JY说三峡导致干旱 NND  真想抽丫的!不知如何下手
对JY来说,三峡就是个灾害发生器。雪灾、地震、风灾、洪水、旱灾……都是它引起的,压根就没要过脸,你往哪抽?
壮东风 发表于 2011-6-2 09:38
海水淡化技术是有的,但成本高,需要大量电。
风能、太阳能技术还不够成熟,水电很多人反坝,核电要慎重 ...
所以要投几百亿研发降低成本的技术。
大学毕业5年,英文没再用过,看得吃力
Mcnatsumi 发表于 2011-6-2 09:33
淡化的海水很难喝,冲厕所比较靠谱
而且华北靠海的不多
饮用水才占用水的多少啊,地下水够了,淡化水主要是工业和灌溉用水。
果然不出所料,又是汉奸杰作.
文章写的还是很中肯的
东线调的是污水,中线难度大,又威胁汉江
北京早已经超负荷了,不只是水资源。与其这样调来调去还不如人挪一挪
我是支持南水北调的,总的来说,我国的水资源是南多北少,像今年这样的长江流域干旱是几十年没有的,更多的时候是涝,如果能在雨季储存更多的水并被调往北方,既解决了北方的缺水问题又防止了南方的洪涝灾害,为什么不可以呢!到现在我依然坚定南方的防涝是主要的,不要因为今年的干旱而产生麻痹思想,那样的话很可能吃大亏。
南水北调的确对地方环境有影响,汉水水位低了很多啊。
涩涩咖啡勺 发表于 2011-6-2 09:48
饮用水才占用水的多少啊,地下水够了,淡化水主要是工业和灌溉用水。
海水淡化的能源问题+副产品处理问题+设备损坏问题,成本不低啊。我很怀疑这点淡化水能满足多少需求。
fatwildcat 发表于 2011-6-2 09:43
对JY来说,三峡就是个灾害发生器。雪灾、地震、风灾、洪水、旱灾……都是它引起的,压根就没要过脸,你往 ...
强烈建议《模拟城市》最新版加入“三峡大坝”元素取代原有的灾难模式。
fatwildcat 发表于 2011-6-2 09:43
对JY来说,三峡就是个灾害发生器。雪灾、地震、风灾、洪水、旱灾……都是它引起的,压根就没要过脸,你往 ...
包括澳大利亚洪水、日本地震、美国龙卷风、欧洲旱灾都是三峡引发的!邪恶TG建造的邪恶三峡不是什么水利工程,而是攻击全世界的大规模杀伤性武器!:D
实事求是的说,中国水荒的根源不是水资源太少,而是需求太大
按总量来说,中国也是全世界排前几名的水资源大国,但一人均就很可怜了(其它资源也是,中华大地是真正的地大物博,在总量上就缺乏的东西非常少)
在全世界任何地方划出这么大一块面积(960万平方公里的一半吧,中国广阔的高原、山地、沙漠、戈壁地区并不适合人类居住),都难以承受将近14亿人口的资源消耗
总是有那么多人反对计划生育,你以为自然资源是取之不尽用之不竭的吗?工业生产量或许可以在科技的帮助下数倍提升,但自然资源不可能
人口老化对社会确实是很大的负担,但这是为以前没有控制人口增长而必须付出的代价。就好比你已经超重了,是努力克服减肥期的痛苦,还是放任自己继续吃下去变成痴肥的大胖子?

在目前需求量远大于供给量的现实情况下,以行政方式压低水价电价不是明智的做法(电价与煤价的矛盾已经导致电荒了,火电厂宁可停工“检修”,也比发电越多亏损越多强)
压低水价电价确实对控制物价上涨很重要,但也助长了对水、电的过度浪费,一方面是中国人均水资源只有世界水平的1/4,另一方面却是各行业的水、电消耗率远高于世界水平。因为价格低啊,多用一些也不会对成本造成多大影响,谁会在乎呢?不要指望人们“自觉”,这就像是在没有警察的情况下指望人们遵纪守法一样
只有水电价格足够分量,才能有效遏制高耗水高耗电行业的扩张,才能逼迫企业愿意多花钱开发节水节电的生产方式,才能促使民众选择更环保节能的产品(比如滚筒洗衣机、节水马桶、节能灯)。经济杠杆的力量,比宣传、行政命令有效多了
superth 发表于 2011-6-2 12:15
海水淡化的能源问题+副产品处理问题+设备损坏问题,成本不低啊。我很怀疑这点淡化水能满足多少需求。
所以我吧670亿美金投进去解决这个问题不是更好,还能带动一个产业。总比去挖沟强。
作为武汉人,坚决反对南水北调

涩涩咖啡勺 发表于 2011-6-2 16:18
所以我吧670亿美金投进去解决这个问题不是更好,还能带动一个产业。总比去挖沟强。


海水淡化量不够,南水北调中段每年调水100亿立方米,就相当于要建500多个日产5万吨的海水淡化厂。投资建厂需要钱,海水淡化亏本运行,也需要政府补贴,还要考虑这么复杂的官网建设管理费用。你算算670亿美元够不够,这还只是南北水调中段啊。

涩涩咖啡勺 发表于 2011-6-2 16:18
所以我吧670亿美金投进去解决这个问题不是更好,还能带动一个产业。总比去挖沟强。


海水淡化量不够,南水北调中段每年调水100亿立方米,就相当于要建500多个日产5万吨的海水淡化厂。投资建厂需要钱,海水淡化亏本运行,也需要政府补贴,还要考虑这么复杂的官网建设管理费用。你算算670亿美元够不够,这还只是南北水调中段啊。
彩色的地方咋翻译的?语义和语气都不对。
a100zyf 发表于 2011-6-2 08:47
我也觉得南水北调是个扯淡工程,因为最近几年天气好像不大正常,南方也经常不下雨,不要拍我,我没数据,只 ...
老美也有调水工程

不过他们是北水南调
在加州
涩涩咖啡勺 发表于 2011-6-2 09:07
华北地区的土地承载不了那么多人口,其实与其南水北调不如把钱用来攻关海水淡化。有那几百亿美金,全球招标 ...
You have a grand and expensive solution! 南水北调,河南也受益,乃给俺们河南运些海水过来吧,我们等着呢
天高任鸿飞 发表于 2011-6-2 08:46
我日啊,太长了,我也看不完了

ps;那个说承认三峡有问题的说法是国内媒体曲解国务院文件,结果西 ...
当年秦国修战国渠灵渠的时候那帮欧洲野蛮人连裤子都没有呢
zs0622 发表于 2011-6-2 15:24
实事求是的说,中国水荒的根源不是水资源太少,而是需求太大
按总量来说,中国也是全世界排前几名的水资源 ...
水务公司外资早站好了位置了,就等造舆论呢。。。
鄱阳湖 都变 鄱阳草场了
那个不可以翻译成为思路吧?
反正怎样都是要中枪!
影响是有,但是一些JY想太多——最后还是归结为体制是原罪。尼玛的。
反之,如若没三峡,武汉等地是不是又要被水泡?上千至万人或出现伤亡或流离失所或不得安宁?
flyfighter 发表于 2011-6-2 21:52
You have a grand and expensive solution! 南水北调,河南也受益,乃给俺们河南运些海水过来吧, ...
河南才不受益呢,南阳那里调的水,再说河南的水其实灌溉够了。
superth 发表于 2011-6-2 18:37
海水淡化量不够,南水北调中段每年调水100亿立方米,就相当于要建500多个日产5万吨的海水淡化厂。投资建 ...
你要算不要算调水量,因为中途损耗很大,你要算京津地区耗水量,还有我研发海水淡化技术带来的产业提升效益。
气候这玩意总体上有规律,但波动也难免。华北地区90年代末期就比较干旱,导致地下水位严重下降,而03年之后这几年,降水带明显北移,华北地区降水很丰沛,地下水位已经回升上来了,我印象特别深刻的是03年,从7月份到9月份整整两个月只晴了两天,一直淅淅沥沥下个不停。

你们应该有印象,以前关于华北地下水过度开采的报道很多,一个比一个危言耸听,最近这几年没怎么看到过吧,因为降水多了水位上来了。有些人就像狗一样,大篷车开来,狗叫个不停;大篷车疾驶而过,狗只是一个风景。气候一直在波动,但丝毫也否定不了水利工程的价值。