西方这回把废材的客户都泻了---前面说的一千个发动机不 ...

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/28 16:06:54
Everyone Wants A Piece Of The RD93


September 30, 2009: China has ordered another hundred RD93 jet engines from Russia. This order is believed to be for an ungraded RD93, with additional thrust. India is not happy about Russia supplying China with RD93 jet engines for Chinese made fighters that are being sold to Pakistan. But India and Russia have worked out an unpublicized compromise. China is a major  customer for RD93 engines (originally designed for the MiG-29), and has bought over a thousand of them. The RD93 engines currently cost about $2.5 million each.

After changing its mind several times over the last few years, Russia has apparently agreed to allow the use of Russian made engines, in Chinese made JF-17 (also known as FC-1) jet fighters that are exported (to Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia.) Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have also shown interest in this low cost fighter that is similar to early model F-16s. The JF-17 is also being built in Pakistan.

China has been developing a similar (apparently identical) engine to the RD93, the WS-13. Actually, this effort is being aided by Russia, which is selling China technology needed for the manufacture of key engine components. Russia isn't happy about this, because they don't want competition in the low cost jet engine market. Then again, China has a history of stealing technology it cannot buy, so the Russians are making the best of a bad situation. China says the WS-13 is nearly ready for service. Maybe, maybe not. Building high performance military jet engines is difficult, and China has had problems mastering this kind of stuff. Not that they will not eventually acquire the skills, but until they do, they need the Russian made RD93s. And are ordering more of them. Officially, because they cannot produce enough of their WS-13s.

Pakistan already has eight JF-17 fighters, which it has received over the last two years. Recently, it signed a deal to buy the next 42, of 300, of these jets from China. These 42 will cost $14.3 million per aircraft. The final 250 will cost $12 million each. The aircraft is assembled in both Pakistan and China, with the engines coming from Russia, and most of the other components from China (which calls the aircraft the FC-1). Azerbaijan, Sudan and Zimbabwe have ordered the aircraft, or are negotiating to. Pakistan will replace its MiG-21s and Mirage IIIs with the low cost JF-17s.

When the first JF-17 fighter arrived in Pakistan two years ago, it ended over twenty years of development for what was first called the Super 7 fighter. The JF-17 was developed by China in cooperation with Pakistan, which originally only wanted to buy 150 of them. All this came about because Pakistan could not get modern fighters from anyone else, and turned to China. At the time, China had nothing comparable to the early model F-16s Pakistan already had.

The 13 ton JF-17 is meant to be a low cost alternative to the American F-16. The JF-17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F-16, but only 80 percent as effective as more recent F16 models. The JF-17 design is based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG-33. Most of the JF-17 electronics are Western, with Italian firms being major suppliers.

The JF-17 can carry 3.6 tons of weapons and use radar guided and heat seeking missiles. It has max speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers an hour, an operating range of 1,300 kilometers and a max altitude of 55,000 feet. China has not yet decided on whether it will use the FC-1/JF-17 itself. This is apparently because China believes its own J-10 (another local design) and J-11 (a license built Russian Su-27) are adequate for their needs. The J-10, like the JF-17, did not work out as well as was hoped.Everyone Wants A Piece Of The RD93


September 30, 2009: China has ordered another hundred RD93 jet engines from Russia. This order is believed to be for an ungraded RD93, with additional thrust. India is not happy about Russia supplying China with RD93 jet engines for Chinese made fighters that are being sold to Pakistan. But India and Russia have worked out an unpublicized compromise. China is a major  customer for RD93 engines (originally designed for the MiG-29), and has bought over a thousand of them. The RD93 engines currently cost about $2.5 million each.

After changing its mind several times over the last few years, Russia has apparently agreed to allow the use of Russian made engines, in Chinese made JF-17 (also known as FC-1) jet fighters that are exported (to Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia.) Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have also shown interest in this low cost fighter that is similar to early model F-16s. The JF-17 is also being built in Pakistan.

China has been developing a similar (apparently identical) engine to the RD93, the WS-13. Actually, this effort is being aided by Russia, which is selling China technology needed for the manufacture of key engine components. Russia isn't happy about this, because they don't want competition in the low cost jet engine market. Then again, China has a history of stealing technology it cannot buy, so the Russians are making the best of a bad situation. China says the WS-13 is nearly ready for service. Maybe, maybe not. Building high performance military jet engines is difficult, and China has had problems mastering this kind of stuff. Not that they will not eventually acquire the skills, but until they do, they need the Russian made RD93s. And are ordering more of them. Officially, because they cannot produce enough of their WS-13s.

Pakistan already has eight JF-17 fighters, which it has received over the last two years. Recently, it signed a deal to buy the next 42, of 300, of these jets from China. These 42 will cost $14.3 million per aircraft. The final 250 will cost $12 million each. The aircraft is assembled in both Pakistan and China, with the engines coming from Russia, and most of the other components from China (which calls the aircraft the FC-1). Azerbaijan, Sudan and Zimbabwe have ordered the aircraft, or are negotiating to. Pakistan will replace its MiG-21s and Mirage IIIs with the low cost JF-17s.

When the first JF-17 fighter arrived in Pakistan two years ago, it ended over twenty years of development for what was first called the Super 7 fighter. The JF-17 was developed by China in cooperation with Pakistan, which originally only wanted to buy 150 of them. All this came about because Pakistan could not get modern fighters from anyone else, and turned to China. At the time, China had nothing comparable to the early model F-16s Pakistan already had.

The 13 ton JF-17 is meant to be a low cost alternative to the American F-16. The JF-17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F-16, but only 80 percent as effective as more recent F16 models. The JF-17 design is based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG-33. Most of the JF-17 electronics are Western, with Italian firms being major suppliers.

The JF-17 can carry 3.6 tons of weapons and use radar guided and heat seeking missiles. It has max speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers an hour, an operating range of 1,300 kilometers and a max altitude of 55,000 feet. China has not yet decided on whether it will use the FC-1/JF-17 itself. This is apparently because China believes its own J-10 (another local design) and J-11 (a license built Russian Su-27) are adequate for their needs. The J-10, like the JF-17, did not work out as well as was hoped.
苏丹、阿塞拜疆、津巴布韦。。。。
出处呢,不是楼主儿子写的作文吧;P
Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia. Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka

出处呢,不是楼主儿子写的作文吧;P
piccedward 发表于 2009-10-7 20:14


NND,  平时写鸟语报告还不够累啊............出自西方网站...............忘了引用了.........


=================================

TG,  努努力, 把这些个第三世界国家的兄弟套上
出处呢,不是楼主儿子写的作文吧;P
piccedward 发表于 2009-10-7 20:14


NND,  平时写鸟语报告还不够累啊............出自西方网站...............忘了引用了.........


=================================

TG,  努努力, 把这些个第三世界国家的兄弟套上
飘过充电英语去
然后再高价卖几家给GLA当假想敌
那里抄来的?有自相矛盾之处及和事实不符之处啊。

文章先说JF-17已经出口到小巴、阿尔及利亚、埃及、尼日利亚、孟加拉和沙地。黎巴嫩、缅甸、伊朗和斯里兰卡也有兴趣购买。

后又说苏丹、阿塞拜疆、津巴布韦或已下订单或也在谈判购买JF-17。。。
Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia.) Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka,Azerbaijan, Sudan and Zimbabwe

=================================================

巴铁是死鱼,

其他嘛就是看TG忽悠的
津巴布韦.......不是经济崩溃了么?{:3_97:}
酸气熏天。。。

“The JF-17 design is based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG-33”,这个怎么说
盔甲制造者 发表于 2009-10-7 20:41

气动外形源于MIG33
呵呵 咋没个翻译的啊
盔甲制造者 发表于 2009-10-7 20:41

据说阿,仅仅是据说..........这么对米格的人说.......Mig 没有反对的..........
有现成的F-16不参照,去参照一个还在方案阶段就流产的米格33,当真是毛粉无敌啊。
15# QBQ-maddogchen

参12楼贵宾................这个钻牛角尖没意思.............
说是当时美国人退出后,成都方面搞不定超7的气动设计,SF也不帮忙要价太高,于是请毛子来做了几个关键的气动设计。这毛子是拿哪个苏联的机型来设计的就不清楚了。
廪君蛮 发表于 2009-10-7 21:30
照这说法空客的客机都是抄波音的,一个圆柱机身俩翅膀,翼下吊着发动机{:2_73:}
成飞搞不定气动.那J10是谁搞的
1895tet 发表于 2009-10-7 21:36

Development of a light fighter has been begun in 1986. At that time China hoped, that American Grumman corporation will assist in modernization J-7 (МiG-21) fighters to which was planned to give new name Saber-7, and then, having saved up experience to create absolutely new type of a fighter. But crisis of 1989, when the Chinese authorities have severely dispersed performances of students for democracy, the USA have stopped all military-technical contacts to China. In 1989 Pakistan where there was a militarian сapture of authority that has led to that both the countries - China and Pakistan, have started to develop a new fighter in common has suffered from the American sanctions.


JF-17, as the western press informs, has been developed on the basis of project ОКB MiG which, after acceptance on arms of the Russian Air Force, should have МiG-33 index. It was the project of a light-weight fighter on the basis of МiG-29 technology, equipped one RD-33 engine, and, possibly, was planned basically as export product Russian Aircraft-building corporаtion (RSK) МiG.

===========================================================

多了解.............然后再说不迟.............

虽然说,超大是宽容的.................

照这说法空客的客机都是抄波音的,一个圆柱机身俩翅膀,翼下吊着发动机{:2_73:}
成飞搞不定气动.那J10是谁搞的
1895tet 发表于 2009-10-7 21:36



成飞搞不定气动.那J10是谁搞的

======================

先了解..............然后再说..................


飞机设计好了, 飞机再随便挑个发动机插进去?
照这说法空客的客机都是抄波音的,一个圆柱机身俩翅膀,翼下吊着发动机{:2_73:}
成飞搞不定气动.那J10是谁搞的
1895tet 发表于 2009-10-7 21:36



成飞搞不定气动.那J10是谁搞的

======================

先了解..............然后再说..................


飞机设计好了, 飞机再随便挑个发动机插进去?


J10的气动是611所搞的咯,不是132厂搞的。

废柴在超7那会的事情已经说不清楚咯,和国外好几个公司合作,包括美国的格鲁曼,毛子的米格——其实按照屠基达的说法找米格根本不是为了气动,而是通过米格去联系克里莫夫的RD33发动机。。。。。。当然132自己没多少气动能力,就找毛子做咨询,在屠基达的超7史话直到结尾才提了611一句,当年人民内部矛盾很深呐。

后来超7跟不上时代就彻底废掉了,从一个改型2代项目变成新研三代项目了,废柴的主导也从132变成611,现在的废柴是拿着F-16的气动和结构作背景搞出来的,飞控和航电是从J-10那衍生的。

楞有人给中国飞机找爹都不会。611搞三代机起步时补奶的参照型号都来自F-16和幻影2000,棍子和废柴故障少妥善率高,一个重要原因就是学习F-16和幻影2000学习的好。

J10的气动是611所搞的咯,不是132厂搞的。

废柴在超7那会的事情已经说不清楚咯,和国外好几个公司合作,包括美国的格鲁曼,毛子的米格——其实按照屠基达的说法找米格根本不是为了气动,而是通过米格去联系克里莫夫的RD33发动机。。。。。。当然132自己没多少气动能力,就找毛子做咨询,在屠基达的超7史话直到结尾才提了611一句,当年人民内部矛盾很深呐。

后来超7跟不上时代就彻底废掉了,从一个改型2代项目变成新研三代项目了,废柴的主导也从132变成611,现在的废柴是拿着F-16的气动和结构作背景搞出来的,飞控和航电是从J-10那衍生的。

楞有人给中国飞机找爹都不会。611搞三代机起步时补奶的参照型号都来自F-16和幻影2000,棍子和废柴故障少妥善率高,一个重要原因就是学习F-16和幻影2000学习的好。
QBQ-maddogchen 发表于 2009-10-7 21:55

有一点是肯定的。 国际上对J10 给出了这样的评价:

Opportunities of struggle, continuously improving electronic equipment, it would become the powerful competitor to F-16 fighter last models (block 50-60).

这个评价很高。 但是得非常仔细读句子前提条件是什么。

====================================================

至于渊源, 自己去了解吧.....................钻牛角尖无益...................
对枭龙评价不高啊
国际上的蠢话多了去了。外国佬谈国内的事情牛头不对马嘴的比比皆是。
注意1000发动机不等于1000架飞机,不要热混头
哎,楼主幸苦了。放出来的消息调戏的就是你这样的。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2009-10-7 22:01

我很想说句,这文章鸟语的水平不咋地啊。。。

The 13 ton JF-17 is meant to be a low cost alternative to the American F-16. The JF-17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F-16, but only 80 percent as effective as more recent F16 models.

不过上文中人家说JF-17已有F-16后期型号的80%效率,评价算不低了。
怎么有沙特阿拉伯?
bull 发表于 2009-10-7 22:41

整个中国的科研都在“跟踪”国外研究, 强调读国外文献..........

你认为都在被糊弄?

这个逻辑.................这篇文章,还算很“客观”了。  在用语上...............大部分都不是这么客气.........
sunlibo1986 发表于 2009-10-7 22:55
沙烏地喜歡買便宜的東西軍援他的夥伴們
29# JSTCVW09CD
您这是文献么?您还是找片文献好好看看文献到底怎么写的吧。
给个链接呗!
{:3_86:}LZ平时上哪个网站转消息呀。。给个链接吧


http://indiadefenceonline.com/

http://www.defpro.com/

http://www.defensenews.com/

很多阿.................\


推荐这个:

http://www.defensenews.com/

了解全球的。

了解A3 就是:

http://indiadefenceonline.com/

http://indiadefenceonline.com/

http://www.defpro.com/

http://www.defensenews.com/

很多阿.................\


推荐这个:

http://www.defensenews.com/

了解全球的。

了解A3 就是:

http://indiadefenceonline.com/


http://www.strategypage.com/default.asp

http://portnews.ru/

简史防务也可以:

http://www.janes.com/news/


还有很多...............一百多个网站在收藏夹里 。。。。。。。。。。


还有了解毛子的造船航海:



http://portnews.ru/

http://shipbuilding.ru/rus/

武器综合类:

http://www.arms-tass.su/



1265家武器生产设计企业中的主要企业介绍和网址:

http://bbs.cjdby.net/viewthread.php?tid=678940

http://www.strategypage.com/default.asp

http://portnews.ru/

简史防务也可以:

http://www.janes.com/news/


还有很多...............一百多个网站在收藏夹里 。。。。。。。。。。


还有了解毛子的造船航海:



http://portnews.ru/

http://shipbuilding.ru/rus/

武器综合类:

http://www.arms-tass.su/



1265家武器生产设计企业中的主要企业介绍和网址:

http://bbs.cjdby.net/viewthread.php?tid=678940
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2009-10-7 21:07
听了这话,早死的孩子S7哭了
觉得没这么夸张吧
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2009-10-7 22:58

有专业的情报所在干这个,具有科研背景的部委,都会有这个机构。
人人都想要RD-93发动机

二零零九年九月三十日:中国已经从俄罗斯订购另一批一百台RD-93喷气发动机。这个订单被认为是一种升级的RD-93,具有增大的推力。印度对俄罗斯向中国出售RD-93发动机并不高兴,因中国制造战斗机后售往巴基斯坦。但印度和俄罗斯已经达成未公开的妥协。
中国是RD-93发动机(最初设计用于MiG-29)的主要客户,并购买了数百台。RD-93发动机每具大约是250万美元。

经过近几年数次改变主意后,俄罗斯表面上同意在中国制造的”JF-17”战机(也称作是FC-1)喷气战斗机,这些战斗机可能出口(到巴基斯坦、阿尔及利亚、埃及、尼日利亚、孟加拉和沙特阿拉伯)。黎巴嫩、缅甸、伊朗和斯里兰卡也对这款低价格战斗机显示出兴趣,这款战斗机与早期型号的F-16战斗机相当。”JF-17”也同时在巴基斯坦制造。

中国已经开发了一个与RD-93类似(表面上是相同)的发动机---WS-13。实际上,这些努力是在俄罗斯的帮助下完成的,俄罗斯向中国出售生产关键发动机部件的技术与中国。俄罗斯并不高兴这样,因为他们不想在低价格喷气发动机市场的竞争。于是又一次,中国具有对不能购买技术就进行技术偷窃(仿制)的历史,俄罗斯只能在退而求其次。中国说WS-13已经接近投入现役服务,也许是真的,也许不是。

制造高性能军用喷气发动机是困难的,中国在掌握这门技术上也存在难题。不是他们不能逐步取得这些技巧,但在他们还做不到时还需要俄罗斯制造RD-93发动机。并且正在订购更多的RD-93。官方来讲,是因为他们不能制造足够数量的WS-13发动机。

巴基斯坦已经拥有八架JF-17战斗机,这些战斗机是近两年接收的。最近,签署了协议,从中国购买300架中的42架。这42架战斗机每架价值为1430万美元。最终250架时每架会价值1200万美元。使用俄罗斯的发动机,飞机在中国和巴基斯坦同时装配,其他绝大部分的部件来自中国(中国称这种飞机为FC-1)。阿塞拜疆、苏丹、津巴布韦已经订购了这种飞机,或者正在谈判购买。巴基斯坦将用低价的JF-17替换“MiG-21”和“幻影-III”战斗机。

当两年前JF-17战斗机抵达巴基斯坦时,终于结束了最初被称为“超七”战斗机的长达20年的研制过程。JF-17由中国和巴基斯坦合作研制,而巴基斯坦最初只想购买150架。这一结果是因为巴基斯坦不能从其他任何人那里得到现化的战斗机,于是转向中国。而当时中国并没有可以与巴基斯坦已经拥有的早期型号F-16相比的战斗机。

13吨的JF-17意味着是美国F-16的另一种选择。JF-17被认为等效于早期版本的F-16,但只有近期F-16型号的80%的效能。JF-17设计是基于取消的俄罗斯计划,MiG-33。绝大多数的电子设备是西方的,意大利是主要供应商。

JF-17可以携带3.6吨的武器并使用雷达制导和热寻的导弹。它的最大速度接近2,000公里/小时,作战半径是1300公里最大高度55,000英尺。中国自己并没有最终决定是否采用FC-1/JF-17。这是似乎是因为中国相信自己的J-10(另一种本国设计)和J-11(俄罗斯Su-27许可证生产)足够满足需求。J-10并不象希望的那样奏效。
这42架战斗机每架价值为1430万美元。最终250架时每架会价值1200万美元。

真他妈便宜!