【J31】448海里，又一个机场守护者么？

什么状态下的448海里才是关键，448海里这个数值并不重要。要知道F18E的作战半径也才400海里，执行重载轰炸任务时，而执行对空警戒，保持2小时前沿待机，半径200海里。

什么状态下的448海里才是关键，448海里这个数值并不重要。要知道F18E的作战半径也才400海里，执行重载轰炸任务时，而执行对空警戒，保持2小时前沿待机，半径200海里。

你知道什么是海里么？

TNT71 发表于 2015-11-11 19:13
你知道什么是海里么？
海里或节并不说明什么问题，即使在USAF也经常使用这个单位，民用也非常普遍，这和国内不是一码事。

为什么一有鹘鹰就有人迫不及待的喷呢

一般水平，航母舰载机基本就没超过1000KM的。

为了流量

内油829 公里的作战半径还想怎么着。。。。。。。。

你知道什么是海里么？
你莫非以为海里只能海上用？

西门吸血 发表于 2015-11-11 19:18
你莫非以为海里只能海上用？
他意思是海里和公里的换算，也是1:1.8xxxx。。。多少记不清了~

全内油弹仓还带满武器。。其实这算不错了~

448海里是一个非常优秀的指标，即使是这个指标，也已经超过了F22的410海里的作战半径。鹘鹰战机用更小的体积更纤细的机体实现了超过重型机的性能，这是一项伟大的成就。考虑到这仅仅是外贸机的指标，中国空军自用版鹘鹰的作战半径必然更高，应该会超过600海里。

448海里是一个非常优秀的指标，即使是这个指标，也已经超过了F22的410海里的作战半径。鹘鹰战机用更小的体 ...
呵呵，人家超巡来的

从上海飞台北才700公里，830能从上海飞冲绳了，什么机场需要这么大的保护半径？

TNT71 发表于 2015-11-11 19:13
你知道什么是海里么？
1海里=1852米，混超大的没多少小白

我用FC-31在美国《航空周刊》网站上搜索了一下，2015年唯一的一篇关于鹘鹰的报道在下面，没有看到提到448海里的事情。除了2015年的一篇报道外，剩下的就是2014年珠海航展时的报道，更早的是2012年的报道。
搜索结果：
http://aviationweek.com/search/results/FC-31
2015年唯一的一篇报道如下：


http://aviationweek.com/dubai-ai ... -fc-31-export-drive

China’s Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) has stated plans to fly a production version of its FC-31 Gyrfalcon fifth-generation fighter by 2019.

Although reluctant to take questions, company officials also stated they are in negotiations with the Chinese government to offer the aircraft to the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force, despite previous reports that the fighter would only be offered for export.

Speaking in Dubai, where the company is displaying a model of the FC-31 outside China for the first time as the company begins the export push for the Gyrfalcon, Li Yuhai, deputy general manager at AVIC, said the aircraft was demonstrating the “technological and management progress” of the program.

Lin Peng, the FC-31’s chief designer, hinted that the company was looking for an international partner for the aircraft rather than the relationship it has with Pakistan’s Aeronautical Complex on the JF-17. He said that international customers would be able to customize their aircraft in terms of communication systems, sensors and weapons, something that would likely only be done outside China.

He added that the aircraft would be low-observable against a number of multi-spectrum sensors, and claimed the aircraft would be stealthy against L-band and Ku-band radars.

Peng said the aircraft’s primary armament would be the PL-9 short-range missile, the SD-10A medium-range air-to-air missile and small diameter bombs. He said the aircraft would be able to carry 2,000 kg (4,400 lb.) of weapons in its single internal bay and 6,000 kg (13,220 lb.) externally.

The company would not say which engine would power production aircraft but that it would be a “advanced medium thrust engine” producing 88.29 kN. (20,000 lb./9,000 kg) of thrust. The demonstrator aircraft is currently powered by the Russian RD-93 which powers the Mikoyan MiG-29.

With a first flight planned for 2019, an initial operating capability would occur some time in 2022/23 and the aircraft would become fully operationally capable two years later.

楼主，少说多看，免得露怯。

哈哈，楼主名符其实！

内油内弹800公里半径，如果是航母上起飞的话，应该不算很差，但是绝对不算很好

西门吸血 发表于 2015-11-11 19:24
448海里是一个非常优秀的指标，即使是这个指标，也已经超过了F22的410海里的作战半径。鹘鹰战机用更小的体 ...
鹘鹰战机用更小的体积更纤细的机体实现了超过重型机的性能
呵呵，反正我是不信。。。。。

兔子不容易啊，现在是所有项目上都盯着村长家最好的定做

西门吸血 发表于 2015-11-11 19:24
448海里是一个非常优秀的指标，即使是这个指标，也已经超过了F22的410海里的作战半径。鹘鹰战机用更小的体 ...
一个字，牛逼。。

不错了吧。。。。。

楼主，你名字起的好，但你评论的不好。

那些中等国家国土面积才多大，这作战半径已经不错了，像什么阿联酋买了飞不了多远就该调头了，不然就过境了。

标准作战半径:近中距蛋各2枚，高低高飞行轨迹。能达到800公里，确实很不赖!

人家是针对楼主的机场保卫者来说的，舰载机448海里真心不算腿短了。

西门吸血 发表于 2015-11-11 19:18
你莫非以为海里只能海上用？

人家是针对楼主的机场保卫者来说的，舰载机448海里真心不算腿短了。

448海里。。。这机场守备区有够大啊

        448海里/830公里应属空战作战半径，只相当于航程的30%，因为战斗机需要在作战区域较长时间！

      680海里/1260公里是对地攻击作战半径，相当于航程的45%，投完弹就调头返航！

       这些指标与娘娘和肥电相比，也相当不错的啦！

      448海里不差了， 400多公里的那个才是机场守卫者！楼主你太着急代明自己态度了！

448海里是美国《国家利益》网站上说的。链接，原文如下：

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/get-ready-america-china-trying-sell-its-lethal-j-31-stealth-14299

Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) is making an aggressive push to sell its J-31 stealth fighter to international customers at the Dubai airshow. AVIC intends to fly a production version of its “Gyrfalcon” by 2019. The aircraft could become operational as early as 2022. Full operational capability would follow roughly three years later—but that’s all contingent upon finding a customer.

But the Chinese company faces obstacles in its quest to export the twin-engine F-35 knock-off. The problem is that China is still largely dependent on Russian jet engine technology because it has consistently failed to develop reliable indigenous propulsion technology of its own.




“Engines are still a problem area for China's industry,” aerospace industry consultant Richard Aboulafia of the Virginia-based Teal Group told me.  “So much of an aircraft's performance... Reliability, speed, time-to-climb, stealth, etc., is heavily dependent upon having world-class jet engine technology, so it's the wrong place for an aspiring weapons exporter to have a weak spot.”

China is working on jet engine technology. But Beijing has not yet mastered propulsion technology that would allow its products to compete on the international marketplace independent of Russian largesse. The Russians supply the engines for most of China’s offering like the FC-1 Xiaolong—which is also known as the JF-17 Thunder. The JF-17 is powered by a single 19,000lbs thrust-class Klimov RD-93 afterburning turbofan that was derived from the MiG-29’s RD-33 engine.

However, the Chinese are known to be working on an indigenous replacement for the RD-93 on the JF-17 called the Guizhou WS-13. The indigenous motor—should it prove to be viable—has slightly more thrust than the Russian engine. A prototype JF-17 has flown with the new engine according to Chinese officials who spoke at the Paris air show. However, given the Chinese track record on developing efficient and reliable engines, Beijing probably has a long way to go before the new motor is ready for prime time.

Nonetheless, if the Chinese are truly close to perfecting a production ready WS-13—as some in the Pentagon claim—then that engine could be developed into a propulsion system for the J-31. The current J-31/FC-31 prototype—like the JF-17—is powered by the Russian RD-93. Indeed, Chinese officials speaking to reporters at the Dubai airshow indicated that the production FC-31 would be powered by a Chinese-made  “advanced medium thrust engine” producing roughly 20,000lbs of thrust.


But the Chinese made other claims that may stretch the truth. According to Aviation Week, Lin Peng, AVIC’s chief designer for the FC-31, claimed the jet would have “multi-spectrum, low-observability characteristics” effective against L-band radars—which given the physics—seems somewhat dubious. It’s not clear how effective China’s stealth technology is—however, U.S. officials said that it’s not likely to match the F-35’s low observable capabilities.

Moreover, Lin said foreign export customers would be able to customize their jets with their own sensors, weapons and communications systems. But the J-31 would come with a host of Chinese-developed weapons including the PL-9 dogfighting missile, SD-10A (PL-12) medium-range air-to-air missile and Beijing’s version of the small diameter bomb. The jet will have a total payload of 17,600lb, 4,400lbs of which would be carried internally in its weapons bays. The J-31 will have a combat radius of 448 nautical miles with internal weapons and a maximum takeoff weight of 55,000lbs.

But all of that depends on finding a buyer. The J-31 was intended as an export-only aircraft. Neither the People’s Liberation Army Air Force nor the People’s Liberation Army Navy had ever intended to operate the jet themselves. However, that might be changing. AVIC is currently negotiating with the PLAAF about a potential J-31/FC-31 purchase.

If Beijing buys the J-31 for its own use, it would likely boost the confidence of potential export customers and could provide China with a market opening. But right now, the J-31 is looking for its first customer. Only time will tell if AVIC will make a sale—and if China has finally developed a workable engine.

Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for The National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter: @davemajumdar.

Image: Creative Commons.


怀疑作者Dave Maiumdar从那里取得数据。这篇文章提到的《航空周刊》相关内容链接和全文如下：
http://aviationweek.com/dubai-air-show-2015/avic-begins-fc-31-export-drive

AVIC Begins FC-31 Export Drive


AVIC is promoting the FC-31 outside China for the first time.


China’s Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) has stated plans to fly a production version of its FC-31 Gyrfalcon fifth-generation fighter by 2019.

Although reluctant to take questions, company officials also stated they are in negotiations with the Chinese government to offer the aircraft to the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force, despite previous reports that the fighter would only be offered for export.

Speaking in Dubai, where the company is displaying a model of the FC-31 outside China for the first time as the company begins the export push for the Gyrfalcon, Li Yuhai, deputy general manager at AVIC, said the aircraft was demonstrating the “technological and management progress” of the program.

Lin Peng, the FC-31’s chief designer, hinted that the company was looking for an international partner for the aircraft rather than the relationship it has with Pakistan’s Aeronautical Complex on the JF-17. He said that international customers would be able to customize their aircraft in terms of communication systems, sensors and weapons, something that would likely only be done outside China.

He added that the aircraft would be low-observable against a number of multi-spectrum sensors, and claimed the aircraft would be stealthy against L-band and Ku-band radars.

Peng said the aircraft’s primary armament would be the PL-9 short-range missile, the SD-10A medium-range air-to-air missile and small diameter bombs. He said the aircraft would be able to carry 2,000 kg (4,400 lb.) of weapons in its single internal bay and 6,000 kg (13,220 lb.) externally.

The company would not say which engine would power production aircraft but that it would be a “advanced medium thrust engine” producing 88.29 kN. (20,000 lb./9,000 kg) of thrust. The demonstrator aircraft is currently powered by the Russian RD-93 which powers the Mikoyan MiG-29.

With a first flight planned for 2019, an initial operating capability would occur some time in 2022/23 and the aircraft would become fully operationally capable two years later.


《航空周刊》根本没有提航程。航程及最大起飞重量是《国家利益》那个记者写的。


448海里是美国《国家利益》网站上说的。链接，原文如下：

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/get-ready-america-china-trying-sell-its-lethal-j-31-stealth-14299

Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) is making an aggressive push to sell its J-31 stealth fighter to international customers at the Dubai airshow. AVIC intends to fly a production version of its “Gyrfalcon” by 2019. The aircraft could become operational as early as 2022. Full operational capability would follow roughly three years later—but that’s all contingent upon finding a customer.

But the Chinese company faces obstacles in its quest to export the twin-engine F-35 knock-off. The problem is that China is still largely dependent on Russian jet engine technology because it has consistently failed to develop reliable indigenous propulsion technology of its own.




“Engines are still a problem area for China's industry,” aerospace industry consultant Richard Aboulafia of the Virginia-based Teal Group told me.  “So much of an aircraft's performance... Reliability, speed, time-to-climb, stealth, etc., is heavily dependent upon having world-class jet engine technology, so it's the wrong place for an aspiring weapons exporter to have a weak spot.”

China is working on jet engine technology. But Beijing has not yet mastered propulsion technology that would allow its products to compete on the international marketplace independent of Russian largesse. The Russians supply the engines for most of China’s offering like the FC-1 Xiaolong—which is also known as the JF-17 Thunder. The JF-17 is powered by a single 19,000lbs thrust-class Klimov RD-93 afterburning turbofan that was derived from the MiG-29’s RD-33 engine.

However, the Chinese are known to be working on an indigenous replacement for the RD-93 on the JF-17 called the Guizhou WS-13. The indigenous motor—should it prove to be viable—has slightly more thrust than the Russian engine. A prototype JF-17 has flown with the new engine according to Chinese officials who spoke at the Paris air show. However, given the Chinese track record on developing efficient and reliable engines, Beijing probably has a long way to go before the new motor is ready for prime time.

Nonetheless, if the Chinese are truly close to perfecting a production ready WS-13—as some in the Pentagon claim—then that engine could be developed into a propulsion system for the J-31. The current J-31/FC-31 prototype—like the JF-17—is powered by the Russian RD-93. Indeed, Chinese officials speaking to reporters at the Dubai airshow indicated that the production FC-31 would be powered by a Chinese-made  “advanced medium thrust engine” producing roughly 20,000lbs of thrust.


But the Chinese made other claims that may stretch the truth. According to Aviation Week, Lin Peng, AVIC’s chief designer for the FC-31, claimed the jet would have “multi-spectrum, low-observability characteristics” effective against L-band radars—which given the physics—seems somewhat dubious. It’s not clear how effective China’s stealth technology is—however, U.S. officials said that it’s not likely to match the F-35’s low observable capabilities.

Moreover, Lin said foreign export customers would be able to customize their jets with their own sensors, weapons and communications systems. But the J-31 would come with a host of Chinese-developed weapons including the PL-9 dogfighting missile, SD-10A (PL-12) medium-range air-to-air missile and Beijing’s version of the small diameter bomb. The jet will have a total payload of 17,600lb, 4,400lbs of which would be carried internally in its weapons bays. The J-31 will have a combat radius of 448 nautical miles with internal weapons and a maximum takeoff weight of 55,000lbs.

But all of that depends on finding a buyer. The J-31 was intended as an export-only aircraft. Neither the People’s Liberation Army Air Force nor the People’s Liberation Army Navy had ever intended to operate the jet themselves. However, that might be changing. AVIC is currently negotiating with the PLAAF about a potential J-31/FC-31 purchase.

If Beijing buys the J-31 for its own use, it would likely boost the confidence of potential export customers and could provide China with a market opening. But right now, the J-31 is looking for its first customer. Only time will tell if AVIC will make a sale—and if China has finally developed a workable engine.

Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for The National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter: @davemajumdar.

Image: Creative Commons.


怀疑作者Dave Maiumdar从那里取得数据。这篇文章提到的《航空周刊》相关内容链接和全文如下：
http://aviationweek.com/dubai-air-show-2015/avic-begins-fc-31-export-drive

AVIC Begins FC-31 Export Drive


AVIC is promoting the FC-31 outside China for the first time.


China’s Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) has stated plans to fly a production version of its FC-31 Gyrfalcon fifth-generation fighter by 2019.

Although reluctant to take questions, company officials also stated they are in negotiations with the Chinese government to offer the aircraft to the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force, despite previous reports that the fighter would only be offered for export.

Speaking in Dubai, where the company is displaying a model of the FC-31 outside China for the first time as the company begins the export push for the Gyrfalcon, Li Yuhai, deputy general manager at AVIC, said the aircraft was demonstrating the “technological and management progress” of the program.

Lin Peng, the FC-31’s chief designer, hinted that the company was looking for an international partner for the aircraft rather than the relationship it has with Pakistan’s Aeronautical Complex on the JF-17. He said that international customers would be able to customize their aircraft in terms of communication systems, sensors and weapons, something that would likely only be done outside China.

He added that the aircraft would be low-observable against a number of multi-spectrum sensors, and claimed the aircraft would be stealthy against L-band and Ku-band radars.

Peng said the aircraft’s primary armament would be the PL-9 short-range missile, the SD-10A medium-range air-to-air missile and small diameter bombs. He said the aircraft would be able to carry 2,000 kg (4,400 lb.) of weapons in its single internal bay and 6,000 kg (13,220 lb.) externally.

The company would not say which engine would power production aircraft but that it would be a “advanced medium thrust engine” producing 88.29 kN. (20,000 lb./9,000 kg) of thrust. The demonstrator aircraft is currently powered by the Russian RD-93 which powers the Mikoyan MiG-29.

With a first flight planned for 2019, an initial operating capability would occur some time in 2022/23 and the aircraft would become fully operationally capable two years later.


《航空周刊》根本没有提航程。航程及最大起飞重量是《国家利益》那个记者写的。

448海里/830公里应属空战作战半径，只相当于航程的30%，因为战斗机需要在作战区域较长时间！

  ...
问题是什么挂载状态，肥电C的615KN是2*2000LB+2*AIM120，8.8吨内油，31估计是7吨油，油耗方面RD93 7.5 kg/(kN·h)，F135是0.88

空战挂载1200km，448海里可能是推测的换算值，就跟df31a的7300英里一样。

从日本fukuoda机场越过朝鲜半岛去炸柳中朝边境的城市也才500nm左右。。。。

TSQ 发表于 2015-11-11 19:33
我用FC-31在美国《航空周刊》网站上搜索了一下，2015年唯一的一篇关于鹘鹰的报道在下面，没有看到提到448海 ...

基本就是二手新闻抄错了吧


其实大量的报道都是直接从中航给的1200KM换算过来的 648 NM

https://www.flightglobal.com/new ... alth-fighte-418777/

也不知道哪家手抖抄成448

我也用1200公里换算到海里是648，不过虽然怀疑是抄错，但没有啥证据，也就没说。

raptor82 发表于 2015-11-11 21:11
基本就是二手新闻抄错了吧

我也用1200公里换算到海里是648，不过虽然怀疑是抄错，但没有啥证据，也就没说。

raptor82 发表于 2015-11-11 21:11
基本就是二手新闻抄错了吧
是Dave Maiumdar这个记者在《国家利益》网站上的文章里写的：

The J-31 will have a combat radius of 448 nautical miles with internal weapons and a maximum takeoff weight of 55,000lbs.

而flightglobal给出的数据如下：

The aircraft has six external hardpoints, with an internal weapons bay that can carry a further four munitions. Payload is 8,000kg (17,600lb), of which 2,000kg can be carried internally. Combat radius with internal weapons is 648nm (1,200km), and maximum take-off weight is 25,000kg (55,000lb).

两者对比，看来是国家利益的记者笔误了。

宋飞宏 发表于 2015-11-11 21:17
是Dave Maiumdar这个记者在《国家利益》网站上的文章里写的：

The J-31 will have a combat radius of ...
Dave Maiumdar 这位是个宝货，水平毛糙得很。

记得以前Flightglobal实在受不了把他开掉了..............

果然，黑航程最好的办法就是换算成海里......

这回有借口了，快喷！！

2015-11-11 21:27 上传