超级军网CNN:改革中国具有争议性的劳改所
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/05/06 10:59:01
改革中国具有争议性的劳改所
Reforming China's controversial labor camps
作者:猫记
译文简介:
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
译文来源:
h ttp://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/18/world/asia/china-forced-labor-camps/index.html?hpt=ias_t4
原创翻译：龙腾网 ht tp://w ww.ltaaa.com 翻译：猫记 审核：hypy 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
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This photo dated 12 June 1986 shows the 'Re-education through labour' camp of Tuanhe near Beijing
这张拍摄于1986年6月12日的照片展现了北京郊区团河的劳教所
Beijing (CNN) -- China is a country where the rule of law is selective and often unjust.
One source of injustice is the 50-year-old system known as "laodong jiaoyang," or re-education through labor.
Under this system, tens of thousands of offenders are imprisoned in China without trial.
北京（CNN）---中国法治体系具有选择性且常常不公平。
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
在这个制度下，数以万计的中国最烦根本没有经过审判就身陷囹圄。
A United Nations Human Rights Council report estimates that some 190,000 Chinese were locked up in 320 re-education -- or "laojiao" -- centers in 2009. That is in addition to an estimated 1.6 million Chinese convicted in regular courts and held in the formal prison system.
联合国人权理事会报告估计2009年大约有19万中国人被关在320个劳教所内。这是除了那些经过法定程序审判后关进正规监狱的160万人之外的数据。
The "re-education through labor" system dates back to the 1950s when the newly established communist regime swept up "counter-revolutionaries" and "class enemies" to maintain order.
Today it empowers police to jail accused offenders -- from petty thieves and prostitutes to drug abusers -- for up to four years without a judicial hearing.
Though the practice is supposedly meant for only minor offenders, critics of the system say it is often used as a tool to persecute government critics, including intellectuals, human rights activists and followers of banned spiritual groups like the Falun Gong, and is a major source of human rights violations.
劳教所的成立最早能追溯到上世纪五十年代，当时新成立的共产主义政权用来收拾“反革命分子”和“阶级敌人”以维护秩序。
如今警察部门获得授权用来关押从小偷、妓女到吸毒人员之流的受控罪犯，在长达四年内没有一个司法听证会。
虽然这个系统很可能仅仅是针对轻型犯罪分子，但是反对劳教所制度的人声称劳教所经常被用来迫害那些批评政府的人，包括知识分子、人权活动家和一些被取缔的宗教团体的追随者比如法轮功。并声称劳教所是侵犯人权的一种主要形式。
Professor Yu Jianrong, a scholar at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think-tank, acknowledged that the system "has played a certain role in maintaining social order and in preventing and reducing crime." However, he added, "as a compulsory re-education administrative measure, it is against the concept of law, lacks legal basis and is contrary to the principles of fairness and justice. It will cause political consequences if this system is not abolished."
Beijing officials say some rethinking is underway.
中国社科院学者，政府智囊团之一的于建嵘教授承认“劳教所在维护社会秩序及预防和减少犯罪活动方面扮演了一定的角色。”然而，他补充道，“作为一种强制性的再教育行政措施，这是有悖法理的，缺少法律依据以及有违公平公正的原则。如果不废除这种做法，将引发政治后果。”北京的一些政府官员声称正在重新考虑劳教所的有关问题。
In a press conference last week, Jiang Wei, a senior official of a government taskforce on judicial reform, said the government was preparing to revamp but not abolish the system. Chinese society, Jiang said, has "reached a consensus on the need to reform the re-education through labor system."
Opinion on Chinese social media confirms that.
上周的记者招待会上，政府司法改革专家组的一位高级别官员姜维（音译）说道，政府将对劳教所制度进行改进，但不会取缔这个制度。他还说道“中国社会对改良劳教所制度的必要性达成了共识。”这个观点被中国媒体消息证实。
On the Sina Weibo micro-blogging site, an informal poll last week showed 97% of the nearly 13,000 respondents voted that "the laojiao system must be rescinded." Only 3% opined that it is "very good, very practical and must not be rescinded."
Public criticism of the practice resurfaced last August after Tang Hui, a woman in Hunan province, was sentenced to 18 months in a labor camp after she agitated for justice for her 11-year-old daughter who was allegedly abducted, raped and forced into prostitution by seven men.
Tang's plight earned support among lawyers, intellectuals, bloggers and even the mainstream media.
新浪微博上一次非正式的民意测验显示出，占比97%的将近13000名参与者投票给了“必须取缔劳教所”。只有3%的参与者认为“劳教所制度不错，很实用，不能被取缔。”
在“唐慧”事件后，对劳教所制度的公开批评重新涌现。唐慧是一名湖南人，她因为呼吁对诱拐、强奸和强迫她11岁的女儿卖淫的七人进行司法制裁而被判处18个月的劳教。
唐慧的困境获得了包括律师、知识分子、网络博主们甚至主流媒体的支持。
Ten lawyers wrote an open letter to government agencies, arguing that the system was neither transparent nor well-supervised.
十位律师联名写了一份公开信给给政府有关部门，认为劳教所既不透明又没有得到很好地监督。
"Current regulations do not require the laojiao management committees to release a written verdict to explain how their decisions were made, so it's difficult to know if a decision was fair," complained co-signatory Li Fangping, a Beijing lawyer.Within a week, Tang Hui was released.
“现行法律并不要求劳教所在做出劳教处分决定时发布一份书面判决，因此这个决定是否公平很难得到确认。”联名律师之一北京的李方平抱怨道。一个星期之内，唐慧被释放。
Wang Xixin, a Peking University law professor, supports the reassessment of the laojiao system. "The way it's implemented, looking at the deprivation and restriction of the citizens' personal freedom and the lack of openness, fairness and impartiality and procedural safeguards, the system itself needs to be reformed."
Chinese ex-convicts who have survived years in laojiao camps have bitter memories.
北京大学法学教授王锡锌支持对劳教所进行重新评估。“劳教所制度的实施，剥夺和限制了公民的人身自由并且缺乏公开、公平、公正的原则以及法定程序的保障，这个制度本身需要改革。”
中国一些曾在劳教所服刑的有前科的人有着痛苦的回忆。
"It was physically exhausting and psychologically tough because isolation and starvation are always part of daily life," recalled a government functionary who was jailed for four years. In the camp, he said he was assigned to work in a vehicle-repair workshop.
Does the system work in re-educating convicts? "It's hard to say," he said. "Different people take different lessons from their experiences, but most people leave the camp still hating the system or the government.
"Reform is always a good idea, but you cannot do it without changing the whole legal system."
一位在劳教所内呆了四年的政府工作人员回忆道，“你会觉得心力交瘁，因为隔离以及挨饿常常成为日常生活的一部分。”他说，在劳教所内，他被分配到汽车修理车间进行工作。
劳教所到底有没有对罪犯进行再教育呢？“这很难说”他说道。“不同的人从他们的经历吸取不同的教训，但是大多数的人离开劳教所后仍然憎恨这个系统或者政府。”
“改革是个好主意，但在无法改变整个司法体系的情况下，你就无法改革。”
Reformers propose the abolition of the laojiao system, but hardly anyone expects that to happen soon.
The Chinese leadership remains divided about law reform and other aspects of political reform.
改革派建议废止劳教制度，但是几乎没有人指望这能很快发生。中国领导层对于司法体系以及其他方面的政治改革仍然存在分歧。
Faced with growing social unrest and political instability, China's leaders have increasingly relied on criminal and administrative punishment to contain rising demands for social justice, clean government, political transparency and accountability, especially among those left behind and marginalized.
Some legal experts agree that the system will take some time to change.
面对日益严重的社会动荡和政治上的不稳定性，中国领导人们已经越来越依赖刑事和行政处罚来应对那些日益增加的针对社会公正、廉洁的政府、政治透明度和问责制的关切，特别是在那些落后和边缘化的地区。
一些法律专家一致认为，劳教制度的改变还需要一些时间。
"The laojiao system should not be completely abolished," said Jiang Ming'an, professor at Peking University. "Instead it should be adapted and reconstituted. We need to take into account the protection of social order and maintenance of social stability."
A microblogger named Sanxiasheng agreed and tweeted: "If re-education through labor is abolished, you will see more gangsters around the neighborhoods."
Ma Huaide, a professor at China University of Political Science and Law, likened the laojiao system to an ax. "The ax may serve as a weapon, but we need not destroy all the axes," Ma said. "The key is to supervise the hand that holds it."
But Yu Jianrong, the researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, unequivocally rejects the laojiao system. "It goes against the legal system, undermines the law and harms social justice," he posted on social media.
"It serves as the local authorities' tool of reprisal in the name of maintaining stability. It has to be abolished immediately."
China-watcher Anthony Saich said the planned reform of the system was "long overdue" but would proceed gradually.
“劳教制度不应该被完全取缔掉，”北京大学教授姜明安说道，“相反，它应该进行重组和改进。我们需要保护社会秩序和维护社会稳定。”
一个叫做Sanxiasheng的微博主同意这个观点并在他的微博上写道：“如果我们取缔劳教制度，社区里会出现更多的黑帮。”
中国政法大学的马怀德教授把劳教制度比喻为斧头。“斧头可以作为一种武器，但是我们并不需要消灭所有的斧头，”马说道。“关键是管理好那只拿着斧头的手。”
但是中国社会科学院的研究员于建嵘明确地反对劳教制度。“劳教制度违背了司法体系、破坏了法律以及对社会公义产生危害。”他在社会媒体上发表道，“劳教制度以维护社会稳定之名，为地方政府行打击报复之实。它必须被立即取缔。”
中国问题研究者Anthony Saich 声称劳教制度的改革计划虽然“姗姗来迟”但是将逐步进行。
"As with most reforms in China, the policy thrust is to be cautious and experiment first both for people to get used to the change and then to assess whether it has been successful," Saich, a professor of international affairs at Harvard Kennedy School, explained.
"I would imagine it will lead over time to its abolition."
“正如中国的大多数改革，政策的推进都是小心谨慎并且先进行试点工作，既是为了让人们适应这些变化，也是为了之后评估是否取得成功，”哈佛肯尼迪学院国际事务教授Saich解释道，“我能想象到随着时间的推移，劳教制度将被取缔。”
评论翻译:
FTheGodfather72
USA , even its loyal citizen ManyGoodFriender says so, likes to contain superpowers who are non English speaking, non english race etc
USA always try to find something to say about China.
Before 70s, it was communism.
80s to 90s, it was human rights.
2000s , it was currency manipulation (when China grows economically)
2010s, it is like China is No. 1 biggest 'threat' to USA.
So USA media what is their job ? Talk about China everyday on CNN about any issues.
Usually negative issues. Thinking such propaganda can influence the masses in China.
美国，甚至其忠诚的公民ManyGoodFriender这么说 ，喜欢影射那些不说英语也不是英国人种等等的超级大国。
美国总是想找些事情对中国说三道四。
七十年代前，是共产主义。
八十到九十年代，是人权。
到了21世纪，当中国经济获得增长，变成了操纵货币。
2010年开始，中国被视为美国的头号“威胁”。
什么才是美国媒体的工作？在CNN上每天谈论有关中国的各种问题。
通常都是负面问题。以为这些宣传会对中国人民产生影响。
TheGodfather72
But when a NY policeman beats up a homeless man who is given permission to stay at the premises, and it was all caught in a video cam, and yet the homeless man was charged with all sorts of charges by the NY police.
Is this THE HUMAN RIGHTS you preached ?
但是当一个纽约警察殴打获得允许留下来的无家可归者，并且这件事被视频记录下来。在这个前提下，无家可归者仍然被纽约警方以各种罪名指控。
这就是你们宣扬的人权？
concerner
All the facts you're bringing up is the positive facts about China. But we watch video sending out from China about execution and oppression of Chinese, that is not just applying on individuals by some individuals as you mention facts from US society. But it is ordering by the head of state. Killing millions because they're calling for reforming or having some points to disagree with the government is not called caring, it's called abusing of power . Selling organs harvesting from "criminal" is not a human policy. It's sub-human policy.
你提出来的所有关于中国的事实都是正面的。但是我们看到的从中国来的有关执行死刑和镇压的视频，那都不是像你提到来自美国社会的事情那样，由一群人施加在一个人身上。而是由国家元首下的命令。就因为呼吁改革或者与政府政见不同就杀死数百万人，这不叫关怀，这叫做滥用权力。贩卖罪犯的器官也是不人道的政策。这是没有人性的政策。
OIitwist
What about American gangster movies? Do you like Al Capone?
美国黑帮电影怎么样？你喜欢 Al Capone吗？（译者注：阿尔·卡彭--美国著名黑帮教父。）
huoknbvfew
An atrocious terrorist still world hegemony aim in China regulates the inconvenient information that there is and criticizes it in the other countries and rolls it up
It is the too bad country and human being of the property very
以世界霸权为目标的中国恐怖主义就是管制那些别的国家对她批评的麻烦信息并且卷起来不让人知道。
中国真是个差劲的国家，并且它在私人财产方面也非常差劲。
TheGodfather72
CNN using 1986 photo means that USA and CNN are not keeping up with recent developments in China. They want to know, but they didnt know much, so we can presume most of the times USA and CNN were just guessing about China various internal issues and matters.
CNN用1986年的老照片意味着美国和CNN根本没有跟上最近中国发展的步伐。他们想了解中国，但是他们又并不太了解中国。所以我们能推测出大部分时间，美国和CNN只是在猜测中国的各种内部问题和事务。
huoknbvfew
World many people do not know that a Chinese is a madman
世界上很多人都不知道中国就是个疯子国家。
slozomby
because forced labor camps are where the good photo ops are?
因为劳教所是出好照片的地方？
ZeonBoi
OIitwist, Godfather means a legal guardian over a child, it's a christian tradition, why do you accuse him of being mafia? get real man.
（回复OIitwist）
教父意味着一个孩子的合法监护人，这是个基督教传统，你为什么说他是个黑手党？现实点吧，兄弟。
OIitwist
Why do you use a Mafia name?
为什么你用一个黑帮名字？
TheGodfather72
World peace can only be achieved when USA takes the 1st step of not trying to make everybody their presumed enemies.
You try to do it to Soviet Union, we almost have nuclear wars. Then we had cold war.
How can China be your relaxed friend when you USA tries to set up military bases close to China , sell weapons to Taiwan, play politics with China neighbor India and back Japan whether right or wrong ?
Then you come out with reports saying China increased their military budget.
If China do so, it is not a surprise , isn't it ?
Who started all these sensitivities and presumed enmity ?
Think about it.
Instead of preaching world peace you are actually doing the otherwise.
只有在美国迈出不把任何人当作他们的假想敌的第一步时才能实现世界和平。
当美国试着这么对苏联是，我们几乎经历核战争。然后我们迎来冷战。
当美国试图在中国周边建立军事基地，出口武器给台湾以及不管对错的与中国的邻居印度和日本在中国的背后玩弄阴谋诡计，你怎么能指望中国成为一个让你觉得放松的朋友？
然后你又提出报告说中国增加了他们的军事预算。
如果中国这么做了，也不奇怪，不是么？
谁触发了所有这些敏感和假定的敌意？
好好想想。
与口里宣称世界和平相反的是，你实际上正在破坏世界和平。
MrPeppermint
I wonder if Foxconn is considered a labor camp?
我想知道富士康是不是被当作一个劳教所？
ZeonBoi
No, Foxconn is a taiwanese slave camp manufacturing company, approved by Apple.
不，富士康是一家经苹果公司批准的台湾奴隶营制造公司。
OIitwist
If it is, the Chinese government is guilty.
如果它是的，中国政府就有罪。
Canmav
ZeonBoi: You'd better check your facts. FoxConn has contracts with many many multinational companies, not just Apple.. and since you bring up Apple you must be one of the fools who loves to scream and shout "Apple bad, Apple bad".
If you don't like Foxconn then you need to boycott the following: Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and Vizio.
（回复ZeonBoi）你最好核实下你说的。富士康不仅仅与苹果公司合作，他还与很多很多跨国公司有着承包合作关系。因为你提到萍果公司，你一定是那些喜欢大叫“苹果坏，苹果坏”的人中间的一个。
如果你不喜欢富士康，那么你需要抵制以下这些公司：宏基、亚马逊、思科、戴尔、惠普、英特尔、微软、摩托罗拉、任天堂、诺基亚、三星、索尼和瑞轩。
John20102010
No, they are working on how to get iphone users meningitis to match "made in USA" quality.
不，他们正致力于怎么样让使用Iphone的脑残们达到“美国制造”的质量标准。
TheGodfather72
I am not from China. And I am not born in China. But if you travel to China, most people their main priorities are not about democracy. It is about livelihood. Jobs, careers, education, a better life like anybody else in the world.
And the wise China leaders (top ones, not those villages style types) are doing exactly so, not perfect , but they are trying their best to.
1.4 billion people. It is no easy feat.
Just compare China and India. Any global businessmen would tell you what are the differences in various aspects and terms.
我并非来自中国，我也不是在中国出生。但是如果你去过中国，你会发现那里大多数的人们首要关注的并不是民主，而是关于生活、工作、事业、教育，像世界其他地方的人民一样期望更好的生活。
并且明智的中国领导者们（我指的最高领导人们，而不是那些乡下的官员）也正是这么做的，虽然不完美，但是他们正在尽最大的努力这么做。
14亿人口，这绝非易事。
只需要对比一下中国和印度，随便一个全球公司会告诉你存在于方方面面的不同点。
10ppl10accts
You sound like you like to suck a China ++++
听上去，你喜欢巴结中国。。。
OIitwist
Do you like gangs?
你喜欢帮派么？
Bull31
I didn't realize China was using labor camps to "re-educate" people. I guess every nation has it's way of dealing with undesirables. Maybe the US can learn something from China.
过去我没有发现中国用劳教所来“重新教育”人们。我猜每个国家都有自己的方式来对付这些不良分子。
也许美国能跟中国学一下。
Beendare
You can't be serious. Summary incarceration with no trial. Did you read the article? A woman was sent to forced labor because she objected to 7 men raping her daughter. The system in China is rife with abuse. Perhaps the only advantage is the people who experience such injustice develop a life long hate of the CCP.
你绝对在开玩笑。没有审判的简易监禁。难道你没有读这篇文章么？一个女人因为控诉七个男人强奸她的女儿而被送进劳教所。中国的劳教制度充斥着虐待。也许这个制度唯一的好处就是那些经过过这种不公正待遇的人们因此而长期憎恨中国共产党。
TheGodfather72
The top leaders in China always give the right and righteous directions.
If crimes do happen say in the prison, remember this:
The top leaders didn't give such orders and would never approve of it;
It is those village leaders or maybe some prison leaders who do all those crimes for their selfish benefit. It is wrong of course if it does happened. But remember these are not the directives or orders from the very top leaders. You think it is easy to control such a big population and country ?
Madoff, who gave the orders for him to cheat ? The USA government ? No.
Even with such tight laws in Wall Street or the Fed or Congress or whatever ....you can't even sniff out Madoff ...... So do we blame the US government for Madoff wrong doing ?
Do we blame the US government for the 2 servicemen in Okinawa for the rape of the Japanese ? Who gave the orders ? Your top leaders or just the 2 servicemen themselves for that Okinawa rape ?
中国的最高领导者们总是指出正确的和公义的方向。
如果传说中拘留所的这些罪行真的发生了，记住以下几点：
中国的最高领导者们不会给出那样的指示，也绝不会赞同这样做。
这都是那些地方领导者们或者一些监狱系统的领导者为了他们自己的利益而犯下这些罪行。如果这真的发生了，它当然是不对的。但是请记住，这一切并不是来自中国最高领导者们的指示和命令。你认为管理一个拥有庞大人口和广袤国土的国家很容易么？
谁给了Madoff（麦道夫骗局--此案被称为华尔街有史以来的最大诈骗案）行骗的权利？美国政府么？不是。
即使有着华尔街如此严格的法律或联邦调查局或国会或任何....你甚至都无法察觉Madoff骗局。。。难道我们因为Madoff的错误行径而指责美国政府么？
我们因为两名军人在日本冲绳县犯下的强奸案指责美国政府了码？谁对冲绳县强奸案下的命令？美国最高领导人或者就是这两个军人？
concerner
Oh yeah!!!! Millions people's death could not be detected by a hawky government... wow, ...it's so funny!
哦耶！！！一个目光敏锐明察秋毫的政府不可能发现数百万人的死亡。。。哇哦。。。真是搞笑！
ScholarOfMen
Your words do not make sense. It is not that I pretend to know who you are, but for you to so easily talk about world governments and leaders as if you know them, sorry......
你的话没有任何意义。不是我假装知道你是谁，而是你能够轻易地讨论各国政府和领导者们，好像你认识他们一样，对不起。。。。
OpinionChan
All good until you cited Weibo and microbloggers as your sources... Thats like going to reddit and asking them what they think of 4chan.
所有一切都没问题直到你引用微博和微博主们来作为你的依据。。。那就像是去找 reddit问他们对4chan的看法。（译者注：reddit和4chan都是美国的论坛。）
OIitwist
Like you can trust the CCP........obviously you do......how much are you paid btw...?
似乎你信任中国共产党。。。明显你信任。。。顺便问一句你能获得多少报酬？
OpinionChan
Didnt you and your 250 trolling aliases burn down in that Pakistan factory fire a month ago? What are you doing back here?
你和你其他250个马甲没有在一个月前巴基斯坦的工厂大火中烧毁么？你现在回到这儿来在做什么？
10ppl10accts
Never listen to the man with the cattle prod shoved up another man's ---
绝对不要听这个跟人胡搅蛮缠的人的话。
TheGodfather72
And Yankees, please do the world a favor. Ok ?
Your baseball tournament, please don't call it the World Series. It is not a world event, it is not even regional.
Your ancestors the Brits don't like it too. They think it is a joke. don't insult the world , ok Yankees amigos ? : )
Now, the World Cup is the Real Thing. More than 100 countries taking part qualifying.
Yankees，帮这个世界一个忙，好吧？（译注：美国棒球比赛中的纽约洋基队）
请别把你们的棒球联赛称之为世界职业棒球大赛。它根本就不是一项世界性赛事，怎么样？Yankees朋友们？
世界杯才是实至名归。超过一百个国家参与了这项赛事。
Tim Liang
wth does this have to do with...ahh watever...dumb@$$es
这究竟跟什么有关系。。。啊。随便啦。。无语。。
10ppl10accts
Eat the rice out of my stink.
吃我的大便吧。
MrPeppermint
Grabbing lands from Tibetans isn't the answer mate.
夺走西藏人民的土地不是答案，哥们。
TheGodfather72
LOL :D
哈哈
Tim Liang
who's grabbing lands? Tibetans were part of China since the Yuan Dynasty. If you have a problem, go dig up Ghengis Khan's body and challenge him to a duel.
谁掠夺西藏领土？西藏至元朝开始就是中国的一部分。如果你有意见，你就去把成吉思汗的坟墓挖开，和他来个决斗。
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
Formosa, have u ever wondered why the dirty communists managed to beat your democratic Nationalist government (KMT) in the chinese civil war?becuase you were way worst than the Mao's mad bunch, and thats no easy feats.
The Chinese are still someway behind the west with their moral and ethical standards, but they have improved tremendously in the last 2 decades, its just a matter of time before they match and overtake the west.
Is that why u are so seemingly worried and bittered?
福尔摩沙（即台湾），你有没有想过为什么在中国内战里，肮脏的共产党设法击败你的民主国民政府(国民党)吗?
因为你们的行为比毛泽东的一系列疯狂举动更加糟糕，这也绝非易事。
在道德伦理方面中国仍旧落后于西方世界，但是他们在过去的二十多年里取得了惊人的进步。他们赶上并超过西方世界只是个时间问题。
这就是你看上去担心受怕又痛苦的原因吗？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c
its all about WAR for u isn't it? China (and the US) have NO plans to destroy their own economies with wars
settle down and let the grown ups to deal with the world's issues yea?
（回复cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c）
对你而言一切都有关战争，不是么？中国和美国都完全没有打一场摧毁双方经济的战争的想法。
消停下吧你，让大人们来对于世界问题好吧？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
shovelingsnow
As much as i like your butter chicken, i have no desire to become an Indian
sorry about that
（回复shovelingsnow）尽管我非常喜欢你们的奶油鸡，但我一点也没有成为一个印度人的想法。对此我感到抱歉。。
ManyGoodFriender
Collapse
ShovelinSnow said;" you'll never be like us because all you see is what we have that you don't. You don't look at what it took to get there."
I must asked THEGenuineOLiTWist these question.
Why do you never like Indians.?
Is it true as Shovel said: "because all you see is what Indians have that you don't."
"You don't look at what it took Indian to get there" --- destitute and corruption.
We shouldn't dislike Indians because of ShovelinSnow's inciting and silly behavior.
ShovelinSnow is the Black Cow of the Family.... I mean Black Sheep......
ShoveIinSnow说：“你永远不会喜欢我们，因为你看到都是我们拥有而你没有的。你却不去考虑为什么会是这样一种情况。”
我要问THEGenuineOLiTWist如下这些问题。
为什么你从来都不喜欢印度人？
Shovel说的“因为你看到都是印度人拥有而你没有”，这是真的么？
“你没有考虑到印度人走到这一步都付出了什么”---贫民和腐败。
我们不应该因为ShoveIinSnow的带有煽动性和愚蠢的表现而讨厌他。
ShoveIinSnow就是“牛群里的黑牛”。。我的意思是指害群之马。。。。
（译者注：Black Sheep在英语中是害群之马的意思，此处可能因为印度人视牛为圣物的传统，而改用Black Cow调侃ShoveIinSnow。）
ShoveIinSnow
It's impossible for you to be like us, because you copy.
你不可能喜欢我们，因为你们抄袭。改革中国具有争议性的劳改所
Reforming China's controversial labor camps
作者:猫记
译文简介:
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
译文来源:
h ttp://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/18/world/asia/china-forced-labor-camps/index.html?hpt=ias_t4
原创翻译：龙腾网 ht tp://w ww.ltaaa.com 翻译：猫记 审核：hypy 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
![]()
This photo dated 12 June 1986 shows the 'Re-education through labour' camp of Tuanhe near Beijing
这张拍摄于1986年6月12日的照片展现了北京郊区团河的劳教所
Beijing (CNN) -- China is a country where the rule of law is selective and often unjust.
One source of injustice is the 50-year-old system known as "laodong jiaoyang," or re-education through labor.
Under this system, tens of thousands of offenders are imprisoned in China without trial.
北京（CNN）---中国法治体系具有选择性且常常不公平。
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
在这个制度下，数以万计的中国最烦根本没有经过审判就身陷囹圄。
A United Nations Human Rights Council report estimates that some 190,000 Chinese were locked up in 320 re-education -- or "laojiao" -- centers in 2009. That is in addition to an estimated 1.6 million Chinese convicted in regular courts and held in the formal prison system.
联合国人权理事会报告估计2009年大约有19万中国人被关在320个劳教所内。这是除了那些经过法定程序审判后关进正规监狱的160万人之外的数据。
The "re-education through labor" system dates back to the 1950s when the newly established communist regime swept up "counter-revolutionaries" and "class enemies" to maintain order.
Today it empowers police to jail accused offenders -- from petty thieves and prostitutes to drug abusers -- for up to four years without a judicial hearing.
Though the practice is supposedly meant for only minor offenders, critics of the system say it is often used as a tool to persecute government critics, including intellectuals, human rights activists and followers of banned spiritual groups like the Falun Gong, and is a major source of human rights violations.
劳教所的成立最早能追溯到上世纪五十年代，当时新成立的共产主义政权用来收拾“反革命分子”和“阶级敌人”以维护秩序。
如今警察部门获得授权用来关押从小偷、妓女到吸毒人员之流的受控罪犯，在长达四年内没有一个司法听证会。
虽然这个系统很可能仅仅是针对轻型犯罪分子，但是反对劳教所制度的人声称劳教所经常被用来迫害那些批评政府的人，包括知识分子、人权活动家和一些被取缔的宗教团体的追随者比如法轮功。并声称劳教所是侵犯人权的一种主要形式。
Professor Yu Jianrong, a scholar at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think-tank, acknowledged that the system "has played a certain role in maintaining social order and in preventing and reducing crime." However, he added, "as a compulsory re-education administrative measure, it is against the concept of law, lacks legal basis and is contrary to the principles of fairness and justice. It will cause political consequences if this system is not abolished."
Beijing officials say some rethinking is underway.
中国社科院学者，政府智囊团之一的于建嵘教授承认“劳教所在维护社会秩序及预防和减少犯罪活动方面扮演了一定的角色。”然而，他补充道，“作为一种强制性的再教育行政措施，这是有悖法理的，缺少法律依据以及有违公平公正的原则。如果不废除这种做法，将引发政治后果。”北京的一些政府官员声称正在重新考虑劳教所的有关问题。
In a press conference last week, Jiang Wei, a senior official of a government taskforce on judicial reform, said the government was preparing to revamp but not abolish the system. Chinese society, Jiang said, has "reached a consensus on the need to reform the re-education through labor system."
Opinion on Chinese social media confirms that.
上周的记者招待会上，政府司法改革专家组的一位高级别官员姜维（音译）说道，政府将对劳教所制度进行改进，但不会取缔这个制度。他还说道“中国社会对改良劳教所制度的必要性达成了共识。”这个观点被中国媒体消息证实。
On the Sina Weibo micro-blogging site, an informal poll last week showed 97% of the nearly 13,000 respondents voted that "the laojiao system must be rescinded." Only 3% opined that it is "very good, very practical and must not be rescinded."
Public criticism of the practice resurfaced last August after Tang Hui, a woman in Hunan province, was sentenced to 18 months in a labor camp after she agitated for justice for her 11-year-old daughter who was allegedly abducted, raped and forced into prostitution by seven men.
Tang's plight earned support among lawyers, intellectuals, bloggers and even the mainstream media.
新浪微博上一次非正式的民意测验显示出，占比97%的将近13000名参与者投票给了“必须取缔劳教所”。只有3%的参与者认为“劳教所制度不错，很实用，不能被取缔。”
在“唐慧”事件后，对劳教所制度的公开批评重新涌现。唐慧是一名湖南人，她因为呼吁对诱拐、强奸和强迫她11岁的女儿卖淫的七人进行司法制裁而被判处18个月的劳教。
唐慧的困境获得了包括律师、知识分子、网络博主们甚至主流媒体的支持。
Ten lawyers wrote an open letter to government agencies, arguing that the system was neither transparent nor well-supervised.
十位律师联名写了一份公开信给给政府有关部门，认为劳教所既不透明又没有得到很好地监督。
"Current regulations do not require the laojiao management committees to release a written verdict to explain how their decisions were made, so it's difficult to know if a decision was fair," complained co-signatory Li Fangping, a Beijing lawyer.Within a week, Tang Hui was released.
“现行法律并不要求劳教所在做出劳教处分决定时发布一份书面判决，因此这个决定是否公平很难得到确认。”联名律师之一北京的李方平抱怨道。一个星期之内，唐慧被释放。
Wang Xixin, a Peking University law professor, supports the reassessment of the laojiao system. "The way it's implemented, looking at the deprivation and restriction of the citizens' personal freedom and the lack of openness, fairness and impartiality and procedural safeguards, the system itself needs to be reformed."
Chinese ex-convicts who have survived years in laojiao camps have bitter memories.
北京大学法学教授王锡锌支持对劳教所进行重新评估。“劳教所制度的实施，剥夺和限制了公民的人身自由并且缺乏公开、公平、公正的原则以及法定程序的保障，这个制度本身需要改革。”
中国一些曾在劳教所服刑的有前科的人有着痛苦的回忆。
"It was physically exhausting and psychologically tough because isolation and starvation are always part of daily life," recalled a government functionary who was jailed for four years. In the camp, he said he was assigned to work in a vehicle-repair workshop.
Does the system work in re-educating convicts? "It's hard to say," he said. "Different people take different lessons from their experiences, but most people leave the camp still hating the system or the government.
"Reform is always a good idea, but you cannot do it without changing the whole legal system."
一位在劳教所内呆了四年的政府工作人员回忆道，“你会觉得心力交瘁，因为隔离以及挨饿常常成为日常生活的一部分。”他说，在劳教所内，他被分配到汽车修理车间进行工作。
劳教所到底有没有对罪犯进行再教育呢？“这很难说”他说道。“不同的人从他们的经历吸取不同的教训，但是大多数的人离开劳教所后仍然憎恨这个系统或者政府。”
“改革是个好主意，但在无法改变整个司法体系的情况下，你就无法改革。”
Reformers propose the abolition of the laojiao system, but hardly anyone expects that to happen soon.
The Chinese leadership remains divided about law reform and other aspects of political reform.
改革派建议废止劳教制度，但是几乎没有人指望这能很快发生。中国领导层对于司法体系以及其他方面的政治改革仍然存在分歧。
Faced with growing social unrest and political instability, China's leaders have increasingly relied on criminal and administrative punishment to contain rising demands for social justice, clean government, political transparency and accountability, especially among those left behind and marginalized.
Some legal experts agree that the system will take some time to change.
面对日益严重的社会动荡和政治上的不稳定性，中国领导人们已经越来越依赖刑事和行政处罚来应对那些日益增加的针对社会公正、廉洁的政府、政治透明度和问责制的关切，特别是在那些落后和边缘化的地区。
一些法律专家一致认为，劳教制度的改变还需要一些时间。
"The laojiao system should not be completely abolished," said Jiang Ming'an, professor at Peking University. "Instead it should be adapted and reconstituted. We need to take into account the protection of social order and maintenance of social stability."
A microblogger named Sanxiasheng agreed and tweeted: "If re-education through labor is abolished, you will see more gangsters around the neighborhoods."
Ma Huaide, a professor at China University of Political Science and Law, likened the laojiao system to an ax. "The ax may serve as a weapon, but we need not destroy all the axes," Ma said. "The key is to supervise the hand that holds it."
But Yu Jianrong, the researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, unequivocally rejects the laojiao system. "It goes against the legal system, undermines the law and harms social justice," he posted on social media.
"It serves as the local authorities' tool of reprisal in the name of maintaining stability. It has to be abolished immediately."
China-watcher Anthony Saich said the planned reform of the system was "long overdue" but would proceed gradually.
“劳教制度不应该被完全取缔掉，”北京大学教授姜明安说道，“相反，它应该进行重组和改进。我们需要保护社会秩序和维护社会稳定。”
一个叫做Sanxiasheng的微博主同意这个观点并在他的微博上写道：“如果我们取缔劳教制度，社区里会出现更多的黑帮。”
中国政法大学的马怀德教授把劳教制度比喻为斧头。“斧头可以作为一种武器，但是我们并不需要消灭所有的斧头，”马说道。“关键是管理好那只拿着斧头的手。”
但是中国社会科学院的研究员于建嵘明确地反对劳教制度。“劳教制度违背了司法体系、破坏了法律以及对社会公义产生危害。”他在社会媒体上发表道，“劳教制度以维护社会稳定之名，为地方政府行打击报复之实。它必须被立即取缔。”
中国问题研究者Anthony Saich 声称劳教制度的改革计划虽然“姗姗来迟”但是将逐步进行。
"As with most reforms in China, the policy thrust is to be cautious and experiment first both for people to get used to the change and then to assess whether it has been successful," Saich, a professor of international affairs at Harvard Kennedy School, explained.
"I would imagine it will lead over time to its abolition."
“正如中国的大多数改革，政策的推进都是小心谨慎并且先进行试点工作，既是为了让人们适应这些变化，也是为了之后评估是否取得成功，”哈佛肯尼迪学院国际事务教授Saich解释道，“我能想象到随着时间的推移，劳教制度将被取缔。”
评论翻译:
FTheGodfather72
USA , even its loyal citizen ManyGoodFriender says so, likes to contain superpowers who are non English speaking, non english race etc
USA always try to find something to say about China.
Before 70s, it was communism.
80s to 90s, it was human rights.
2000s , it was currency manipulation (when China grows economically)
2010s, it is like China is No. 1 biggest 'threat' to USA.
So USA media what is their job ? Talk about China everyday on CNN about any issues.
Usually negative issues. Thinking such propaganda can influence the masses in China.
美国，甚至其忠诚的公民ManyGoodFriender这么说 ，喜欢影射那些不说英语也不是英国人种等等的超级大国。
美国总是想找些事情对中国说三道四。
七十年代前，是共产主义。
八十到九十年代，是人权。
到了21世纪，当中国经济获得增长，变成了操纵货币。
2010年开始，中国被视为美国的头号“威胁”。
什么才是美国媒体的工作？在CNN上每天谈论有关中国的各种问题。
通常都是负面问题。以为这些宣传会对中国人民产生影响。
TheGodfather72
But when a NY policeman beats up a homeless man who is given permission to stay at the premises, and it was all caught in a video cam, and yet the homeless man was charged with all sorts of charges by the NY police.
Is this THE HUMAN RIGHTS you preached ?
但是当一个纽约警察殴打获得允许留下来的无家可归者，并且这件事被视频记录下来。在这个前提下，无家可归者仍然被纽约警方以各种罪名指控。
这就是你们宣扬的人权？
concerner
All the facts you're bringing up is the positive facts about China. But we watch video sending out from China about execution and oppression of Chinese, that is not just applying on individuals by some individuals as you mention facts from US society. But it is ordering by the head of state. Killing millions because they're calling for reforming or having some points to disagree with the government is not called caring, it's called abusing of power . Selling organs harvesting from "criminal" is not a human policy. It's sub-human policy.
你提出来的所有关于中国的事实都是正面的。但是我们看到的从中国来的有关执行死刑和镇压的视频，那都不是像你提到来自美国社会的事情那样，由一群人施加在一个人身上。而是由国家元首下的命令。就因为呼吁改革或者与政府政见不同就杀死数百万人，这不叫关怀，这叫做滥用权力。贩卖罪犯的器官也是不人道的政策。这是没有人性的政策。
OIitwist
What about American gangster movies? Do you like Al Capone?
美国黑帮电影怎么样？你喜欢 Al Capone吗？（译者注：阿尔·卡彭--美国著名黑帮教父。）
huoknbvfew
An atrocious terrorist still world hegemony aim in China regulates the inconvenient information that there is and criticizes it in the other countries and rolls it up
It is the too bad country and human being of the property very
以世界霸权为目标的中国恐怖主义就是管制那些别的国家对她批评的麻烦信息并且卷起来不让人知道。
中国真是个差劲的国家，并且它在私人财产方面也非常差劲。
TheGodfather72
CNN using 1986 photo means that USA and CNN are not keeping up with recent developments in China. They want to know, but they didnt know much, so we can presume most of the times USA and CNN were just guessing about China various internal issues and matters.
CNN用1986年的老照片意味着美国和CNN根本没有跟上最近中国发展的步伐。他们想了解中国，但是他们又并不太了解中国。所以我们能推测出大部分时间，美国和CNN只是在猜测中国的各种内部问题和事务。
huoknbvfew
World many people do not know that a Chinese is a madman
世界上很多人都不知道中国就是个疯子国家。
slozomby
because forced labor camps are where the good photo ops are?
因为劳教所是出好照片的地方？
ZeonBoi
OIitwist, Godfather means a legal guardian over a child, it's a christian tradition, why do you accuse him of being mafia? get real man.
（回复OIitwist）
教父意味着一个孩子的合法监护人，这是个基督教传统，你为什么说他是个黑手党？现实点吧，兄弟。
OIitwist
Why do you use a Mafia name?
为什么你用一个黑帮名字？
TheGodfather72
World peace can only be achieved when USA takes the 1st step of not trying to make everybody their presumed enemies.
You try to do it to Soviet Union, we almost have nuclear wars. Then we had cold war.
How can China be your relaxed friend when you USA tries to set up military bases close to China , sell weapons to Taiwan, play politics with China neighbor India and back Japan whether right or wrong ?
Then you come out with reports saying China increased their military budget.
If China do so, it is not a surprise , isn't it ?
Who started all these sensitivities and presumed enmity ?
Think about it.
Instead of preaching world peace you are actually doing the otherwise.
只有在美国迈出不把任何人当作他们的假想敌的第一步时才能实现世界和平。
当美国试着这么对苏联是，我们几乎经历核战争。然后我们迎来冷战。
当美国试图在中国周边建立军事基地，出口武器给台湾以及不管对错的与中国的邻居印度和日本在中国的背后玩弄阴谋诡计，你怎么能指望中国成为一个让你觉得放松的朋友？
然后你又提出报告说中国增加了他们的军事预算。
如果中国这么做了，也不奇怪，不是么？
谁触发了所有这些敏感和假定的敌意？
好好想想。
与口里宣称世界和平相反的是，你实际上正在破坏世界和平。
MrPeppermint
I wonder if Foxconn is considered a labor camp?
我想知道富士康是不是被当作一个劳教所？
ZeonBoi
No, Foxconn is a taiwanese slave camp manufacturing company, approved by Apple.
不，富士康是一家经苹果公司批准的台湾奴隶营制造公司。
OIitwist
If it is, the Chinese government is guilty.
如果它是的，中国政府就有罪。
Canmav
ZeonBoi: You'd better check your facts. FoxConn has contracts with many many multinational companies, not just Apple.. and since you bring up Apple you must be one of the fools who loves to scream and shout "Apple bad, Apple bad".
If you don't like Foxconn then you need to boycott the following: Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and Vizio.
（回复ZeonBoi）你最好核实下你说的。富士康不仅仅与苹果公司合作，他还与很多很多跨国公司有着承包合作关系。因为你提到萍果公司，你一定是那些喜欢大叫“苹果坏，苹果坏”的人中间的一个。
如果你不喜欢富士康，那么你需要抵制以下这些公司：宏基、亚马逊、思科、戴尔、惠普、英特尔、微软、摩托罗拉、任天堂、诺基亚、三星、索尼和瑞轩。
John20102010
No, they are working on how to get iphone users meningitis to match "made in USA" quality.
不，他们正致力于怎么样让使用Iphone的脑残们达到“美国制造”的质量标准。
TheGodfather72
I am not from China. And I am not born in China. But if you travel to China, most people their main priorities are not about democracy. It is about livelihood. Jobs, careers, education, a better life like anybody else in the world.
And the wise China leaders (top ones, not those villages style types) are doing exactly so, not perfect , but they are trying their best to.
1.4 billion people. It is no easy feat.
Just compare China and India. Any global businessmen would tell you what are the differences in various aspects and terms.
我并非来自中国，我也不是在中国出生。但是如果你去过中国，你会发现那里大多数的人们首要关注的并不是民主，而是关于生活、工作、事业、教育，像世界其他地方的人民一样期望更好的生活。
并且明智的中国领导者们（我指的最高领导人们，而不是那些乡下的官员）也正是这么做的，虽然不完美，但是他们正在尽最大的努力这么做。
14亿人口，这绝非易事。
只需要对比一下中国和印度，随便一个全球公司会告诉你存在于方方面面的不同点。
10ppl10accts
You sound like you like to suck a China ++++
听上去，你喜欢巴结中国。。。
OIitwist
Do you like gangs?
你喜欢帮派么？
Bull31
I didn't realize China was using labor camps to "re-educate" people. I guess every nation has it's way of dealing with undesirables. Maybe the US can learn something from China.
过去我没有发现中国用劳教所来“重新教育”人们。我猜每个国家都有自己的方式来对付这些不良分子。
也许美国能跟中国学一下。
Beendare
You can't be serious. Summary incarceration with no trial. Did you read the article? A woman was sent to forced labor because she objected to 7 men raping her daughter. The system in China is rife with abuse. Perhaps the only advantage is the people who experience such injustice develop a life long hate of the CCP.
你绝对在开玩笑。没有审判的简易监禁。难道你没有读这篇文章么？一个女人因为控诉七个男人强奸她的女儿而被送进劳教所。中国的劳教制度充斥着虐待。也许这个制度唯一的好处就是那些经过过这种不公正待遇的人们因此而长期憎恨中国共产党。
TheGodfather72
The top leaders in China always give the right and righteous directions.
If crimes do happen say in the prison, remember this:
The top leaders didn't give such orders and would never approve of it;
It is those village leaders or maybe some prison leaders who do all those crimes for their selfish benefit. It is wrong of course if it does happened. But remember these are not the directives or orders from the very top leaders. You think it is easy to control such a big population and country ?
Madoff, who gave the orders for him to cheat ? The USA government ? No.
Even with such tight laws in Wall Street or the Fed or Congress or whatever ....you can't even sniff out Madoff ...... So do we blame the US government for Madoff wrong doing ?
Do we blame the US government for the 2 servicemen in Okinawa for the rape of the Japanese ? Who gave the orders ? Your top leaders or just the 2 servicemen themselves for that Okinawa rape ?
中国的最高领导者们总是指出正确的和公义的方向。
如果传说中拘留所的这些罪行真的发生了，记住以下几点：
中国的最高领导者们不会给出那样的指示，也绝不会赞同这样做。
这都是那些地方领导者们或者一些监狱系统的领导者为了他们自己的利益而犯下这些罪行。如果这真的发生了，它当然是不对的。但是请记住，这一切并不是来自中国最高领导者们的指示和命令。你认为管理一个拥有庞大人口和广袤国土的国家很容易么？
谁给了Madoff（麦道夫骗局--此案被称为华尔街有史以来的最大诈骗案）行骗的权利？美国政府么？不是。
即使有着华尔街如此严格的法律或联邦调查局或国会或任何....你甚至都无法察觉Madoff骗局。。。难道我们因为Madoff的错误行径而指责美国政府么？
我们因为两名军人在日本冲绳县犯下的强奸案指责美国政府了码？谁对冲绳县强奸案下的命令？美国最高领导人或者就是这两个军人？
concerner
Oh yeah!!!! Millions people's death could not be detected by a hawky government... wow, ...it's so funny!
哦耶！！！一个目光敏锐明察秋毫的政府不可能发现数百万人的死亡。。。哇哦。。。真是搞笑！
ScholarOfMen
Your words do not make sense. It is not that I pretend to know who you are, but for you to so easily talk about world governments and leaders as if you know them, sorry......
你的话没有任何意义。不是我假装知道你是谁，而是你能够轻易地讨论各国政府和领导者们，好像你认识他们一样，对不起。。。。
OpinionChan
All good until you cited Weibo and microbloggers as your sources... Thats like going to reddit and asking them what they think of 4chan.
所有一切都没问题直到你引用微博和微博主们来作为你的依据。。。那就像是去找 reddit问他们对4chan的看法。（译者注：reddit和4chan都是美国的论坛。）
OIitwist
Like you can trust the CCP........obviously you do......how much are you paid btw...?
似乎你信任中国共产党。。。明显你信任。。。顺便问一句你能获得多少报酬？
OpinionChan
Didnt you and your 250 trolling aliases burn down in that Pakistan factory fire a month ago? What are you doing back here?
你和你其他250个马甲没有在一个月前巴基斯坦的工厂大火中烧毁么？你现在回到这儿来在做什么？
10ppl10accts
Never listen to the man with the cattle prod shoved up another man's ---
绝对不要听这个跟人胡搅蛮缠的人的话。
TheGodfather72
And Yankees, please do the world a favor. Ok ?
Your baseball tournament, please don't call it the World Series. It is not a world event, it is not even regional.
Your ancestors the Brits don't like it too. They think it is a joke. don't insult the world , ok Yankees amigos ? : )
Now, the World Cup is the Real Thing. More than 100 countries taking part qualifying.
Yankees，帮这个世界一个忙，好吧？（译注：美国棒球比赛中的纽约洋基队）
请别把你们的棒球联赛称之为世界职业棒球大赛。它根本就不是一项世界性赛事，怎么样？Yankees朋友们？
世界杯才是实至名归。超过一百个国家参与了这项赛事。
Tim Liang
wth does this have to do with...ahh watever...dumb@$$es
这究竟跟什么有关系。。。啊。随便啦。。无语。。
10ppl10accts
Eat the rice out of my stink.
吃我的大便吧。
MrPeppermint
Grabbing lands from Tibetans isn't the answer mate.
夺走西藏人民的土地不是答案，哥们。
TheGodfather72
LOL :D
哈哈
Tim Liang
who's grabbing lands? Tibetans were part of China since the Yuan Dynasty. If you have a problem, go dig up Ghengis Khan's body and challenge him to a duel.
谁掠夺西藏领土？西藏至元朝开始就是中国的一部分。如果你有意见，你就去把成吉思汗的坟墓挖开，和他来个决斗。
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
Formosa, have u ever wondered why the dirty communists managed to beat your democratic Nationalist government (KMT) in the chinese civil war?becuase you were way worst than the Mao's mad bunch, and thats no easy feats.
The Chinese are still someway behind the west with their moral and ethical standards, but they have improved tremendously in the last 2 decades, its just a matter of time before they match and overtake the west.
Is that why u are so seemingly worried and bittered?
福尔摩沙（即台湾），你有没有想过为什么在中国内战里，肮脏的共产党设法击败你的民主国民政府(国民党)吗?
因为你们的行为比毛泽东的一系列疯狂举动更加糟糕，这也绝非易事。
在道德伦理方面中国仍旧落后于西方世界，但是他们在过去的二十多年里取得了惊人的进步。他们赶上并超过西方世界只是个时间问题。
这就是你看上去担心受怕又痛苦的原因吗？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c
its all about WAR for u isn't it? China (and the US) have NO plans to destroy their own economies with wars
settle down and let the grown ups to deal with the world's issues yea?
（回复cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c）
对你而言一切都有关战争，不是么？中国和美国都完全没有打一场摧毁双方经济的战争的想法。
消停下吧你，让大人们来对于世界问题好吧？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
shovelingsnow
As much as i like your butter chicken, i have no desire to become an Indian
sorry about that
（回复shovelingsnow）尽管我非常喜欢你们的奶油鸡，但我一点也没有成为一个印度人的想法。对此我感到抱歉。。
ManyGoodFriender
Collapse
ShovelinSnow said;" you'll never be like us because all you see is what we have that you don't. You don't look at what it took to get there."
I must asked THEGenuineOLiTWist these question.
Why do you never like Indians.?
Is it true as Shovel said: "because all you see is what Indians have that you don't."
"You don't look at what it took Indian to get there" --- destitute and corruption.
We shouldn't dislike Indians because of ShovelinSnow's inciting and silly behavior.
ShovelinSnow is the Black Cow of the Family.... I mean Black Sheep......
ShoveIinSnow说：“你永远不会喜欢我们，因为你看到都是我们拥有而你没有的。你却不去考虑为什么会是这样一种情况。”
我要问THEGenuineOLiTWist如下这些问题。
为什么你从来都不喜欢印度人？
Shovel说的“因为你看到都是印度人拥有而你没有”，这是真的么？
“你没有考虑到印度人走到这一步都付出了什么”---贫民和腐败。
我们不应该因为ShoveIinSnow的带有煽动性和愚蠢的表现而讨厌他。
ShoveIinSnow就是“牛群里的黑牛”。。我的意思是指害群之马。。。。
（译者注：Black Sheep在英语中是害群之马的意思，此处可能因为印度人视牛为圣物的传统，而改用Black Cow调侃ShoveIinSnow。）
ShoveIinSnow
It's impossible for you to be like us, because you copy.
你不可能喜欢我们，因为你们抄袭。
Reforming China's controversial labor camps
作者:猫记
译文简介:
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
译文来源:
h ttp://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/18/world/asia/china-forced-labor-camps/index.html?hpt=ias_t4
原创翻译：龙腾网 ht tp://w ww.ltaaa.com 翻译：猫记 审核：hypy 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
This photo dated 12 June 1986 shows the 'Re-education through labour' camp of Tuanhe near Beijing
这张拍摄于1986年6月12日的照片展现了北京郊区团河的劳教所
Beijing (CNN) -- China is a country where the rule of law is selective and often unjust.
One source of injustice is the 50-year-old system known as "laodong jiaoyang," or re-education through labor.
Under this system, tens of thousands of offenders are imprisoned in China without trial.
北京（CNN）---中国法治体系具有选择性且常常不公平。
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
在这个制度下，数以万计的中国最烦根本没有经过审判就身陷囹圄。
A United Nations Human Rights Council report estimates that some 190,000 Chinese were locked up in 320 re-education -- or "laojiao" -- centers in 2009. That is in addition to an estimated 1.6 million Chinese convicted in regular courts and held in the formal prison system.
联合国人权理事会报告估计2009年大约有19万中国人被关在320个劳教所内。这是除了那些经过法定程序审判后关进正规监狱的160万人之外的数据。
The "re-education through labor" system dates back to the 1950s when the newly established communist regime swept up "counter-revolutionaries" and "class enemies" to maintain order.
Today it empowers police to jail accused offenders -- from petty thieves and prostitutes to drug abusers -- for up to four years without a judicial hearing.
Though the practice is supposedly meant for only minor offenders, critics of the system say it is often used as a tool to persecute government critics, including intellectuals, human rights activists and followers of banned spiritual groups like the Falun Gong, and is a major source of human rights violations.
劳教所的成立最早能追溯到上世纪五十年代，当时新成立的共产主义政权用来收拾“反革命分子”和“阶级敌人”以维护秩序。
如今警察部门获得授权用来关押从小偷、妓女到吸毒人员之流的受控罪犯，在长达四年内没有一个司法听证会。
虽然这个系统很可能仅仅是针对轻型犯罪分子，但是反对劳教所制度的人声称劳教所经常被用来迫害那些批评政府的人，包括知识分子、人权活动家和一些被取缔的宗教团体的追随者比如法轮功。并声称劳教所是侵犯人权的一种主要形式。
Professor Yu Jianrong, a scholar at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think-tank, acknowledged that the system "has played a certain role in maintaining social order and in preventing and reducing crime." However, he added, "as a compulsory re-education administrative measure, it is against the concept of law, lacks legal basis and is contrary to the principles of fairness and justice. It will cause political consequences if this system is not abolished."
Beijing officials say some rethinking is underway.
中国社科院学者，政府智囊团之一的于建嵘教授承认“劳教所在维护社会秩序及预防和减少犯罪活动方面扮演了一定的角色。”然而，他补充道，“作为一种强制性的再教育行政措施，这是有悖法理的，缺少法律依据以及有违公平公正的原则。如果不废除这种做法，将引发政治后果。”北京的一些政府官员声称正在重新考虑劳教所的有关问题。
In a press conference last week, Jiang Wei, a senior official of a government taskforce on judicial reform, said the government was preparing to revamp but not abolish the system. Chinese society, Jiang said, has "reached a consensus on the need to reform the re-education through labor system."
Opinion on Chinese social media confirms that.
上周的记者招待会上，政府司法改革专家组的一位高级别官员姜维（音译）说道，政府将对劳教所制度进行改进，但不会取缔这个制度。他还说道“中国社会对改良劳教所制度的必要性达成了共识。”这个观点被中国媒体消息证实。
On the Sina Weibo micro-blogging site, an informal poll last week showed 97% of the nearly 13,000 respondents voted that "the laojiao system must be rescinded." Only 3% opined that it is "very good, very practical and must not be rescinded."
Public criticism of the practice resurfaced last August after Tang Hui, a woman in Hunan province, was sentenced to 18 months in a labor camp after she agitated for justice for her 11-year-old daughter who was allegedly abducted, raped and forced into prostitution by seven men.
Tang's plight earned support among lawyers, intellectuals, bloggers and even the mainstream media.
新浪微博上一次非正式的民意测验显示出，占比97%的将近13000名参与者投票给了“必须取缔劳教所”。只有3%的参与者认为“劳教所制度不错，很实用，不能被取缔。”
在“唐慧”事件后，对劳教所制度的公开批评重新涌现。唐慧是一名湖南人，她因为呼吁对诱拐、强奸和强迫她11岁的女儿卖淫的七人进行司法制裁而被判处18个月的劳教。
唐慧的困境获得了包括律师、知识分子、网络博主们甚至主流媒体的支持。
Ten lawyers wrote an open letter to government agencies, arguing that the system was neither transparent nor well-supervised.
十位律师联名写了一份公开信给给政府有关部门，认为劳教所既不透明又没有得到很好地监督。
"Current regulations do not require the laojiao management committees to release a written verdict to explain how their decisions were made, so it's difficult to know if a decision was fair," complained co-signatory Li Fangping, a Beijing lawyer.Within a week, Tang Hui was released.
“现行法律并不要求劳教所在做出劳教处分决定时发布一份书面判决，因此这个决定是否公平很难得到确认。”联名律师之一北京的李方平抱怨道。一个星期之内，唐慧被释放。
Wang Xixin, a Peking University law professor, supports the reassessment of the laojiao system. "The way it's implemented, looking at the deprivation and restriction of the citizens' personal freedom and the lack of openness, fairness and impartiality and procedural safeguards, the system itself needs to be reformed."
Chinese ex-convicts who have survived years in laojiao camps have bitter memories.
北京大学法学教授王锡锌支持对劳教所进行重新评估。“劳教所制度的实施，剥夺和限制了公民的人身自由并且缺乏公开、公平、公正的原则以及法定程序的保障，这个制度本身需要改革。”
中国一些曾在劳教所服刑的有前科的人有着痛苦的回忆。
"It was physically exhausting and psychologically tough because isolation and starvation are always part of daily life," recalled a government functionary who was jailed for four years. In the camp, he said he was assigned to work in a vehicle-repair workshop.
Does the system work in re-educating convicts? "It's hard to say," he said. "Different people take different lessons from their experiences, but most people leave the camp still hating the system or the government.
"Reform is always a good idea, but you cannot do it without changing the whole legal system."
一位在劳教所内呆了四年的政府工作人员回忆道，“你会觉得心力交瘁，因为隔离以及挨饿常常成为日常生活的一部分。”他说，在劳教所内，他被分配到汽车修理车间进行工作。
劳教所到底有没有对罪犯进行再教育呢？“这很难说”他说道。“不同的人从他们的经历吸取不同的教训，但是大多数的人离开劳教所后仍然憎恨这个系统或者政府。”
“改革是个好主意，但在无法改变整个司法体系的情况下，你就无法改革。”
Reformers propose the abolition of the laojiao system, but hardly anyone expects that to happen soon.
The Chinese leadership remains divided about law reform and other aspects of political reform.
改革派建议废止劳教制度，但是几乎没有人指望这能很快发生。中国领导层对于司法体系以及其他方面的政治改革仍然存在分歧。
Faced with growing social unrest and political instability, China's leaders have increasingly relied on criminal and administrative punishment to contain rising demands for social justice, clean government, political transparency and accountability, especially among those left behind and marginalized.
Some legal experts agree that the system will take some time to change.
面对日益严重的社会动荡和政治上的不稳定性，中国领导人们已经越来越依赖刑事和行政处罚来应对那些日益增加的针对社会公正、廉洁的政府、政治透明度和问责制的关切，特别是在那些落后和边缘化的地区。
一些法律专家一致认为，劳教制度的改变还需要一些时间。
"The laojiao system should not be completely abolished," said Jiang Ming'an, professor at Peking University. "Instead it should be adapted and reconstituted. We need to take into account the protection of social order and maintenance of social stability."
A microblogger named Sanxiasheng agreed and tweeted: "If re-education through labor is abolished, you will see more gangsters around the neighborhoods."
Ma Huaide, a professor at China University of Political Science and Law, likened the laojiao system to an ax. "The ax may serve as a weapon, but we need not destroy all the axes," Ma said. "The key is to supervise the hand that holds it."
But Yu Jianrong, the researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, unequivocally rejects the laojiao system. "It goes against the legal system, undermines the law and harms social justice," he posted on social media.
"It serves as the local authorities' tool of reprisal in the name of maintaining stability. It has to be abolished immediately."
China-watcher Anthony Saich said the planned reform of the system was "long overdue" but would proceed gradually.
“劳教制度不应该被完全取缔掉，”北京大学教授姜明安说道，“相反，它应该进行重组和改进。我们需要保护社会秩序和维护社会稳定。”
一个叫做Sanxiasheng的微博主同意这个观点并在他的微博上写道：“如果我们取缔劳教制度，社区里会出现更多的黑帮。”
中国政法大学的马怀德教授把劳教制度比喻为斧头。“斧头可以作为一种武器，但是我们并不需要消灭所有的斧头，”马说道。“关键是管理好那只拿着斧头的手。”
但是中国社会科学院的研究员于建嵘明确地反对劳教制度。“劳教制度违背了司法体系、破坏了法律以及对社会公义产生危害。”他在社会媒体上发表道，“劳教制度以维护社会稳定之名，为地方政府行打击报复之实。它必须被立即取缔。”
中国问题研究者Anthony Saich 声称劳教制度的改革计划虽然“姗姗来迟”但是将逐步进行。
"As with most reforms in China, the policy thrust is to be cautious and experiment first both for people to get used to the change and then to assess whether it has been successful," Saich, a professor of international affairs at Harvard Kennedy School, explained.
"I would imagine it will lead over time to its abolition."
“正如中国的大多数改革，政策的推进都是小心谨慎并且先进行试点工作，既是为了让人们适应这些变化，也是为了之后评估是否取得成功，”哈佛肯尼迪学院国际事务教授Saich解释道，“我能想象到随着时间的推移，劳教制度将被取缔。”
评论翻译:
FTheGodfather72
USA , even its loyal citizen ManyGoodFriender says so, likes to contain superpowers who are non English speaking, non english race etc
USA always try to find something to say about China.
Before 70s, it was communism.
80s to 90s, it was human rights.
2000s , it was currency manipulation (when China grows economically)
2010s, it is like China is No. 1 biggest 'threat' to USA.
So USA media what is their job ? Talk about China everyday on CNN about any issues.
Usually negative issues. Thinking such propaganda can influence the masses in China.
美国，甚至其忠诚的公民ManyGoodFriender这么说 ，喜欢影射那些不说英语也不是英国人种等等的超级大国。
美国总是想找些事情对中国说三道四。
七十年代前，是共产主义。
八十到九十年代，是人权。
到了21世纪，当中国经济获得增长，变成了操纵货币。
2010年开始，中国被视为美国的头号“威胁”。
什么才是美国媒体的工作？在CNN上每天谈论有关中国的各种问题。
通常都是负面问题。以为这些宣传会对中国人民产生影响。
TheGodfather72
But when a NY policeman beats up a homeless man who is given permission to stay at the premises, and it was all caught in a video cam, and yet the homeless man was charged with all sorts of charges by the NY police.
Is this THE HUMAN RIGHTS you preached ?
但是当一个纽约警察殴打获得允许留下来的无家可归者，并且这件事被视频记录下来。在这个前提下，无家可归者仍然被纽约警方以各种罪名指控。
这就是你们宣扬的人权？
concerner
All the facts you're bringing up is the positive facts about China. But we watch video sending out from China about execution and oppression of Chinese, that is not just applying on individuals by some individuals as you mention facts from US society. But it is ordering by the head of state. Killing millions because they're calling for reforming or having some points to disagree with the government is not called caring, it's called abusing of power . Selling organs harvesting from "criminal" is not a human policy. It's sub-human policy.
你提出来的所有关于中国的事实都是正面的。但是我们看到的从中国来的有关执行死刑和镇压的视频，那都不是像你提到来自美国社会的事情那样，由一群人施加在一个人身上。而是由国家元首下的命令。就因为呼吁改革或者与政府政见不同就杀死数百万人，这不叫关怀，这叫做滥用权力。贩卖罪犯的器官也是不人道的政策。这是没有人性的政策。
OIitwist
What about American gangster movies? Do you like Al Capone?
美国黑帮电影怎么样？你喜欢 Al Capone吗？（译者注：阿尔·卡彭--美国著名黑帮教父。）
huoknbvfew
An atrocious terrorist still world hegemony aim in China regulates the inconvenient information that there is and criticizes it in the other countries and rolls it up
It is the too bad country and human being of the property very
以世界霸权为目标的中国恐怖主义就是管制那些别的国家对她批评的麻烦信息并且卷起来不让人知道。
中国真是个差劲的国家，并且它在私人财产方面也非常差劲。
TheGodfather72
CNN using 1986 photo means that USA and CNN are not keeping up with recent developments in China. They want to know, but they didnt know much, so we can presume most of the times USA and CNN were just guessing about China various internal issues and matters.
CNN用1986年的老照片意味着美国和CNN根本没有跟上最近中国发展的步伐。他们想了解中国，但是他们又并不太了解中国。所以我们能推测出大部分时间，美国和CNN只是在猜测中国的各种内部问题和事务。
huoknbvfew
World many people do not know that a Chinese is a madman
世界上很多人都不知道中国就是个疯子国家。
slozomby
because forced labor camps are where the good photo ops are?
因为劳教所是出好照片的地方？
ZeonBoi
OIitwist, Godfather means a legal guardian over a child, it's a christian tradition, why do you accuse him of being mafia? get real man.
（回复OIitwist）
教父意味着一个孩子的合法监护人，这是个基督教传统，你为什么说他是个黑手党？现实点吧，兄弟。
OIitwist
Why do you use a Mafia name?
为什么你用一个黑帮名字？
TheGodfather72
World peace can only be achieved when USA takes the 1st step of not trying to make everybody their presumed enemies.
You try to do it to Soviet Union, we almost have nuclear wars. Then we had cold war.
How can China be your relaxed friend when you USA tries to set up military bases close to China , sell weapons to Taiwan, play politics with China neighbor India and back Japan whether right or wrong ?
Then you come out with reports saying China increased their military budget.
If China do so, it is not a surprise , isn't it ?
Who started all these sensitivities and presumed enmity ?
Think about it.
Instead of preaching world peace you are actually doing the otherwise.
只有在美国迈出不把任何人当作他们的假想敌的第一步时才能实现世界和平。
当美国试着这么对苏联是，我们几乎经历核战争。然后我们迎来冷战。
当美国试图在中国周边建立军事基地，出口武器给台湾以及不管对错的与中国的邻居印度和日本在中国的背后玩弄阴谋诡计，你怎么能指望中国成为一个让你觉得放松的朋友？
然后你又提出报告说中国增加了他们的军事预算。
如果中国这么做了，也不奇怪，不是么？
谁触发了所有这些敏感和假定的敌意？
好好想想。
与口里宣称世界和平相反的是，你实际上正在破坏世界和平。
MrPeppermint
I wonder if Foxconn is considered a labor camp?
我想知道富士康是不是被当作一个劳教所？
ZeonBoi
No, Foxconn is a taiwanese slave camp manufacturing company, approved by Apple.
不，富士康是一家经苹果公司批准的台湾奴隶营制造公司。
OIitwist
If it is, the Chinese government is guilty.
如果它是的，中国政府就有罪。
Canmav
ZeonBoi: You'd better check your facts. FoxConn has contracts with many many multinational companies, not just Apple.. and since you bring up Apple you must be one of the fools who loves to scream and shout "Apple bad, Apple bad".
If you don't like Foxconn then you need to boycott the following: Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and Vizio.
（回复ZeonBoi）你最好核实下你说的。富士康不仅仅与苹果公司合作，他还与很多很多跨国公司有着承包合作关系。因为你提到萍果公司，你一定是那些喜欢大叫“苹果坏，苹果坏”的人中间的一个。
如果你不喜欢富士康，那么你需要抵制以下这些公司：宏基、亚马逊、思科、戴尔、惠普、英特尔、微软、摩托罗拉、任天堂、诺基亚、三星、索尼和瑞轩。
John20102010
No, they are working on how to get iphone users meningitis to match "made in USA" quality.
不，他们正致力于怎么样让使用Iphone的脑残们达到“美国制造”的质量标准。
TheGodfather72
I am not from China. And I am not born in China. But if you travel to China, most people their main priorities are not about democracy. It is about livelihood. Jobs, careers, education, a better life like anybody else in the world.
And the wise China leaders (top ones, not those villages style types) are doing exactly so, not perfect , but they are trying their best to.
1.4 billion people. It is no easy feat.
Just compare China and India. Any global businessmen would tell you what are the differences in various aspects and terms.
我并非来自中国，我也不是在中国出生。但是如果你去过中国，你会发现那里大多数的人们首要关注的并不是民主，而是关于生活、工作、事业、教育，像世界其他地方的人民一样期望更好的生活。
并且明智的中国领导者们（我指的最高领导人们，而不是那些乡下的官员）也正是这么做的，虽然不完美，但是他们正在尽最大的努力这么做。
14亿人口，这绝非易事。
只需要对比一下中国和印度，随便一个全球公司会告诉你存在于方方面面的不同点。
10ppl10accts
You sound like you like to suck a China ++++
听上去，你喜欢巴结中国。。。
OIitwist
Do you like gangs?
你喜欢帮派么？
Bull31
I didn't realize China was using labor camps to "re-educate" people. I guess every nation has it's way of dealing with undesirables. Maybe the US can learn something from China.
过去我没有发现中国用劳教所来“重新教育”人们。我猜每个国家都有自己的方式来对付这些不良分子。
也许美国能跟中国学一下。
Beendare
You can't be serious. Summary incarceration with no trial. Did you read the article? A woman was sent to forced labor because she objected to 7 men raping her daughter. The system in China is rife with abuse. Perhaps the only advantage is the people who experience such injustice develop a life long hate of the CCP.
你绝对在开玩笑。没有审判的简易监禁。难道你没有读这篇文章么？一个女人因为控诉七个男人强奸她的女儿而被送进劳教所。中国的劳教制度充斥着虐待。也许这个制度唯一的好处就是那些经过过这种不公正待遇的人们因此而长期憎恨中国共产党。
TheGodfather72
The top leaders in China always give the right and righteous directions.
If crimes do happen say in the prison, remember this:
The top leaders didn't give such orders and would never approve of it;
It is those village leaders or maybe some prison leaders who do all those crimes for their selfish benefit. It is wrong of course if it does happened. But remember these are not the directives or orders from the very top leaders. You think it is easy to control such a big population and country ?
Madoff, who gave the orders for him to cheat ? The USA government ? No.
Even with such tight laws in Wall Street or the Fed or Congress or whatever ....you can't even sniff out Madoff ...... So do we blame the US government for Madoff wrong doing ?
Do we blame the US government for the 2 servicemen in Okinawa for the rape of the Japanese ? Who gave the orders ? Your top leaders or just the 2 servicemen themselves for that Okinawa rape ?
中国的最高领导者们总是指出正确的和公义的方向。
如果传说中拘留所的这些罪行真的发生了，记住以下几点：
中国的最高领导者们不会给出那样的指示，也绝不会赞同这样做。
这都是那些地方领导者们或者一些监狱系统的领导者为了他们自己的利益而犯下这些罪行。如果这真的发生了，它当然是不对的。但是请记住，这一切并不是来自中国最高领导者们的指示和命令。你认为管理一个拥有庞大人口和广袤国土的国家很容易么？
谁给了Madoff（麦道夫骗局--此案被称为华尔街有史以来的最大诈骗案）行骗的权利？美国政府么？不是。
即使有着华尔街如此严格的法律或联邦调查局或国会或任何....你甚至都无法察觉Madoff骗局。。。难道我们因为Madoff的错误行径而指责美国政府么？
我们因为两名军人在日本冲绳县犯下的强奸案指责美国政府了码？谁对冲绳县强奸案下的命令？美国最高领导人或者就是这两个军人？
concerner
Oh yeah!!!! Millions people's death could not be detected by a hawky government... wow, ...it's so funny!
哦耶！！！一个目光敏锐明察秋毫的政府不可能发现数百万人的死亡。。。哇哦。。。真是搞笑！
ScholarOfMen
Your words do not make sense. It is not that I pretend to know who you are, but for you to so easily talk about world governments and leaders as if you know them, sorry......
你的话没有任何意义。不是我假装知道你是谁，而是你能够轻易地讨论各国政府和领导者们，好像你认识他们一样，对不起。。。。
OpinionChan
All good until you cited Weibo and microbloggers as your sources... Thats like going to reddit and asking them what they think of 4chan.
所有一切都没问题直到你引用微博和微博主们来作为你的依据。。。那就像是去找 reddit问他们对4chan的看法。（译者注：reddit和4chan都是美国的论坛。）
OIitwist
Like you can trust the CCP........obviously you do......how much are you paid btw...?
似乎你信任中国共产党。。。明显你信任。。。顺便问一句你能获得多少报酬？
OpinionChan
Didnt you and your 250 trolling aliases burn down in that Pakistan factory fire a month ago? What are you doing back here?
你和你其他250个马甲没有在一个月前巴基斯坦的工厂大火中烧毁么？你现在回到这儿来在做什么？
10ppl10accts
Never listen to the man with the cattle prod shoved up another man's ---
绝对不要听这个跟人胡搅蛮缠的人的话。
TheGodfather72
And Yankees, please do the world a favor. Ok ?
Your baseball tournament, please don't call it the World Series. It is not a world event, it is not even regional.
Your ancestors the Brits don't like it too. They think it is a joke. don't insult the world , ok Yankees amigos ? : )
Now, the World Cup is the Real Thing. More than 100 countries taking part qualifying.
Yankees，帮这个世界一个忙，好吧？（译注：美国棒球比赛中的纽约洋基队）
请别把你们的棒球联赛称之为世界职业棒球大赛。它根本就不是一项世界性赛事，怎么样？Yankees朋友们？
世界杯才是实至名归。超过一百个国家参与了这项赛事。
Tim Liang
wth does this have to do with...ahh watever...dumb@$$es
这究竟跟什么有关系。。。啊。随便啦。。无语。。
10ppl10accts
Eat the rice out of my stink.
吃我的大便吧。
MrPeppermint
Grabbing lands from Tibetans isn't the answer mate.
夺走西藏人民的土地不是答案，哥们。
TheGodfather72
LOL :D
哈哈
Tim Liang
who's grabbing lands? Tibetans were part of China since the Yuan Dynasty. If you have a problem, go dig up Ghengis Khan's body and challenge him to a duel.
谁掠夺西藏领土？西藏至元朝开始就是中国的一部分。如果你有意见，你就去把成吉思汗的坟墓挖开，和他来个决斗。
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
Formosa, have u ever wondered why the dirty communists managed to beat your democratic Nationalist government (KMT) in the chinese civil war?becuase you were way worst than the Mao's mad bunch, and thats no easy feats.
The Chinese are still someway behind the west with their moral and ethical standards, but they have improved tremendously in the last 2 decades, its just a matter of time before they match and overtake the west.
Is that why u are so seemingly worried and bittered?
福尔摩沙（即台湾），你有没有想过为什么在中国内战里，肮脏的共产党设法击败你的民主国民政府(国民党)吗?
因为你们的行为比毛泽东的一系列疯狂举动更加糟糕，这也绝非易事。
在道德伦理方面中国仍旧落后于西方世界，但是他们在过去的二十多年里取得了惊人的进步。他们赶上并超过西方世界只是个时间问题。
这就是你看上去担心受怕又痛苦的原因吗？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c
its all about WAR for u isn't it? China (and the US) have NO plans to destroy their own economies with wars
settle down and let the grown ups to deal with the world's issues yea?
（回复cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c）
对你而言一切都有关战争，不是么？中国和美国都完全没有打一场摧毁双方经济的战争的想法。
消停下吧你，让大人们来对于世界问题好吧？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
shovelingsnow
As much as i like your butter chicken, i have no desire to become an Indian
sorry about that
（回复shovelingsnow）尽管我非常喜欢你们的奶油鸡，但我一点也没有成为一个印度人的想法。对此我感到抱歉。。
ManyGoodFriender
Collapse
ShovelinSnow said;" you'll never be like us because all you see is what we have that you don't. You don't look at what it took to get there."
I must asked THEGenuineOLiTWist these question.
Why do you never like Indians.?
Is it true as Shovel said: "because all you see is what Indians have that you don't."
"You don't look at what it took Indian to get there" --- destitute and corruption.
We shouldn't dislike Indians because of ShovelinSnow's inciting and silly behavior.
ShovelinSnow is the Black Cow of the Family.... I mean Black Sheep......
ShoveIinSnow说：“你永远不会喜欢我们，因为你看到都是我们拥有而你没有的。你却不去考虑为什么会是这样一种情况。”
我要问THEGenuineOLiTWist如下这些问题。
为什么你从来都不喜欢印度人？
Shovel说的“因为你看到都是印度人拥有而你没有”，这是真的么？
“你没有考虑到印度人走到这一步都付出了什么”---贫民和腐败。
我们不应该因为ShoveIinSnow的带有煽动性和愚蠢的表现而讨厌他。
ShoveIinSnow就是“牛群里的黑牛”。。我的意思是指害群之马。。。。
（译者注：Black Sheep在英语中是害群之马的意思，此处可能因为印度人视牛为圣物的传统，而改用Black Cow调侃ShoveIinSnow。）
ShoveIinSnow
It's impossible for you to be like us, because you copy.
你不可能喜欢我们，因为你们抄袭。改革中国具有争议性的劳改所
Reforming China's controversial labor camps
作者:猫记
译文简介:
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
译文来源:
h ttp://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/18/world/asia/china-forced-labor-camps/index.html?hpt=ias_t4
原创翻译：龙腾网 ht tp://w ww.ltaaa.com 翻译：猫记 审核：hypy 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
This photo dated 12 June 1986 shows the 'Re-education through labour' camp of Tuanhe near Beijing
这张拍摄于1986年6月12日的照片展现了北京郊区团河的劳教所
Beijing (CNN) -- China is a country where the rule of law is selective and often unjust.
One source of injustice is the 50-year-old system known as "laodong jiaoyang," or re-education through labor.
Under this system, tens of thousands of offenders are imprisoned in China without trial.
北京（CNN）---中国法治体系具有选择性且常常不公平。
这种不公平现象之一就是这个拥有五十年历史的号称“laodong jiaoyang”（劳动教养）或者通过劳动来再教育人的系统。
在这个制度下，数以万计的中国最烦根本没有经过审判就身陷囹圄。
A United Nations Human Rights Council report estimates that some 190,000 Chinese were locked up in 320 re-education -- or "laojiao" -- centers in 2009. That is in addition to an estimated 1.6 million Chinese convicted in regular courts and held in the formal prison system.
联合国人权理事会报告估计2009年大约有19万中国人被关在320个劳教所内。这是除了那些经过法定程序审判后关进正规监狱的160万人之外的数据。
The "re-education through labor" system dates back to the 1950s when the newly established communist regime swept up "counter-revolutionaries" and "class enemies" to maintain order.
Today it empowers police to jail accused offenders -- from petty thieves and prostitutes to drug abusers -- for up to four years without a judicial hearing.
Though the practice is supposedly meant for only minor offenders, critics of the system say it is often used as a tool to persecute government critics, including intellectuals, human rights activists and followers of banned spiritual groups like the Falun Gong, and is a major source of human rights violations.
劳教所的成立最早能追溯到上世纪五十年代，当时新成立的共产主义政权用来收拾“反革命分子”和“阶级敌人”以维护秩序。
如今警察部门获得授权用来关押从小偷、妓女到吸毒人员之流的受控罪犯，在长达四年内没有一个司法听证会。
虽然这个系统很可能仅仅是针对轻型犯罪分子，但是反对劳教所制度的人声称劳教所经常被用来迫害那些批评政府的人，包括知识分子、人权活动家和一些被取缔的宗教团体的追随者比如法轮功。并声称劳教所是侵犯人权的一种主要形式。
Professor Yu Jianrong, a scholar at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think-tank, acknowledged that the system "has played a certain role in maintaining social order and in preventing and reducing crime." However, he added, "as a compulsory re-education administrative measure, it is against the concept of law, lacks legal basis and is contrary to the principles of fairness and justice. It will cause political consequences if this system is not abolished."
Beijing officials say some rethinking is underway.
中国社科院学者，政府智囊团之一的于建嵘教授承认“劳教所在维护社会秩序及预防和减少犯罪活动方面扮演了一定的角色。”然而，他补充道，“作为一种强制性的再教育行政措施，这是有悖法理的，缺少法律依据以及有违公平公正的原则。如果不废除这种做法，将引发政治后果。”北京的一些政府官员声称正在重新考虑劳教所的有关问题。
In a press conference last week, Jiang Wei, a senior official of a government taskforce on judicial reform, said the government was preparing to revamp but not abolish the system. Chinese society, Jiang said, has "reached a consensus on the need to reform the re-education through labor system."
Opinion on Chinese social media confirms that.
上周的记者招待会上，政府司法改革专家组的一位高级别官员姜维（音译）说道，政府将对劳教所制度进行改进，但不会取缔这个制度。他还说道“中国社会对改良劳教所制度的必要性达成了共识。”这个观点被中国媒体消息证实。
On the Sina Weibo micro-blogging site, an informal poll last week showed 97% of the nearly 13,000 respondents voted that "the laojiao system must be rescinded." Only 3% opined that it is "very good, very practical and must not be rescinded."
Public criticism of the practice resurfaced last August after Tang Hui, a woman in Hunan province, was sentenced to 18 months in a labor camp after she agitated for justice for her 11-year-old daughter who was allegedly abducted, raped and forced into prostitution by seven men.
Tang's plight earned support among lawyers, intellectuals, bloggers and even the mainstream media.
新浪微博上一次非正式的民意测验显示出，占比97%的将近13000名参与者投票给了“必须取缔劳教所”。只有3%的参与者认为“劳教所制度不错，很实用，不能被取缔。”
在“唐慧”事件后，对劳教所制度的公开批评重新涌现。唐慧是一名湖南人，她因为呼吁对诱拐、强奸和强迫她11岁的女儿卖淫的七人进行司法制裁而被判处18个月的劳教。
唐慧的困境获得了包括律师、知识分子、网络博主们甚至主流媒体的支持。
Ten lawyers wrote an open letter to government agencies, arguing that the system was neither transparent nor well-supervised.
十位律师联名写了一份公开信给给政府有关部门，认为劳教所既不透明又没有得到很好地监督。
"Current regulations do not require the laojiao management committees to release a written verdict to explain how their decisions were made, so it's difficult to know if a decision was fair," complained co-signatory Li Fangping, a Beijing lawyer.Within a week, Tang Hui was released.
“现行法律并不要求劳教所在做出劳教处分决定时发布一份书面判决，因此这个决定是否公平很难得到确认。”联名律师之一北京的李方平抱怨道。一个星期之内，唐慧被释放。
Wang Xixin, a Peking University law professor, supports the reassessment of the laojiao system. "The way it's implemented, looking at the deprivation and restriction of the citizens' personal freedom and the lack of openness, fairness and impartiality and procedural safeguards, the system itself needs to be reformed."
Chinese ex-convicts who have survived years in laojiao camps have bitter memories.
北京大学法学教授王锡锌支持对劳教所进行重新评估。“劳教所制度的实施，剥夺和限制了公民的人身自由并且缺乏公开、公平、公正的原则以及法定程序的保障，这个制度本身需要改革。”
中国一些曾在劳教所服刑的有前科的人有着痛苦的回忆。
"It was physically exhausting and psychologically tough because isolation and starvation are always part of daily life," recalled a government functionary who was jailed for four years. In the camp, he said he was assigned to work in a vehicle-repair workshop.
Does the system work in re-educating convicts? "It's hard to say," he said. "Different people take different lessons from their experiences, but most people leave the camp still hating the system or the government.
"Reform is always a good idea, but you cannot do it without changing the whole legal system."
一位在劳教所内呆了四年的政府工作人员回忆道，“你会觉得心力交瘁，因为隔离以及挨饿常常成为日常生活的一部分。”他说，在劳教所内，他被分配到汽车修理车间进行工作。
劳教所到底有没有对罪犯进行再教育呢？“这很难说”他说道。“不同的人从他们的经历吸取不同的教训，但是大多数的人离开劳教所后仍然憎恨这个系统或者政府。”
“改革是个好主意，但在无法改变整个司法体系的情况下，你就无法改革。”
Reformers propose the abolition of the laojiao system, but hardly anyone expects that to happen soon.
The Chinese leadership remains divided about law reform and other aspects of political reform.
改革派建议废止劳教制度，但是几乎没有人指望这能很快发生。中国领导层对于司法体系以及其他方面的政治改革仍然存在分歧。
Faced with growing social unrest and political instability, China's leaders have increasingly relied on criminal and administrative punishment to contain rising demands for social justice, clean government, political transparency and accountability, especially among those left behind and marginalized.
Some legal experts agree that the system will take some time to change.
面对日益严重的社会动荡和政治上的不稳定性，中国领导人们已经越来越依赖刑事和行政处罚来应对那些日益增加的针对社会公正、廉洁的政府、政治透明度和问责制的关切，特别是在那些落后和边缘化的地区。
一些法律专家一致认为，劳教制度的改变还需要一些时间。
"The laojiao system should not be completely abolished," said Jiang Ming'an, professor at Peking University. "Instead it should be adapted and reconstituted. We need to take into account the protection of social order and maintenance of social stability."
A microblogger named Sanxiasheng agreed and tweeted: "If re-education through labor is abolished, you will see more gangsters around the neighborhoods."
Ma Huaide, a professor at China University of Political Science and Law, likened the laojiao system to an ax. "The ax may serve as a weapon, but we need not destroy all the axes," Ma said. "The key is to supervise the hand that holds it."
But Yu Jianrong, the researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, unequivocally rejects the laojiao system. "It goes against the legal system, undermines the law and harms social justice," he posted on social media.
"It serves as the local authorities' tool of reprisal in the name of maintaining stability. It has to be abolished immediately."
China-watcher Anthony Saich said the planned reform of the system was "long overdue" but would proceed gradually.
“劳教制度不应该被完全取缔掉，”北京大学教授姜明安说道，“相反，它应该进行重组和改进。我们需要保护社会秩序和维护社会稳定。”
一个叫做Sanxiasheng的微博主同意这个观点并在他的微博上写道：“如果我们取缔劳教制度，社区里会出现更多的黑帮。”
中国政法大学的马怀德教授把劳教制度比喻为斧头。“斧头可以作为一种武器，但是我们并不需要消灭所有的斧头，”马说道。“关键是管理好那只拿着斧头的手。”
但是中国社会科学院的研究员于建嵘明确地反对劳教制度。“劳教制度违背了司法体系、破坏了法律以及对社会公义产生危害。”他在社会媒体上发表道，“劳教制度以维护社会稳定之名，为地方政府行打击报复之实。它必须被立即取缔。”
中国问题研究者Anthony Saich 声称劳教制度的改革计划虽然“姗姗来迟”但是将逐步进行。
"As with most reforms in China, the policy thrust is to be cautious and experiment first both for people to get used to the change and then to assess whether it has been successful," Saich, a professor of international affairs at Harvard Kennedy School, explained.
"I would imagine it will lead over time to its abolition."
“正如中国的大多数改革，政策的推进都是小心谨慎并且先进行试点工作，既是为了让人们适应这些变化，也是为了之后评估是否取得成功，”哈佛肯尼迪学院国际事务教授Saich解释道，“我能想象到随着时间的推移，劳教制度将被取缔。”
评论翻译:
FTheGodfather72
USA , even its loyal citizen ManyGoodFriender says so, likes to contain superpowers who are non English speaking, non english race etc
USA always try to find something to say about China.
Before 70s, it was communism.
80s to 90s, it was human rights.
2000s , it was currency manipulation (when China grows economically)
2010s, it is like China is No. 1 biggest 'threat' to USA.
So USA media what is their job ? Talk about China everyday on CNN about any issues.
Usually negative issues. Thinking such propaganda can influence the masses in China.
美国，甚至其忠诚的公民ManyGoodFriender这么说 ，喜欢影射那些不说英语也不是英国人种等等的超级大国。
美国总是想找些事情对中国说三道四。
七十年代前，是共产主义。
八十到九十年代，是人权。
到了21世纪，当中国经济获得增长，变成了操纵货币。
2010年开始，中国被视为美国的头号“威胁”。
什么才是美国媒体的工作？在CNN上每天谈论有关中国的各种问题。
通常都是负面问题。以为这些宣传会对中国人民产生影响。
TheGodfather72
But when a NY policeman beats up a homeless man who is given permission to stay at the premises, and it was all caught in a video cam, and yet the homeless man was charged with all sorts of charges by the NY police.
Is this THE HUMAN RIGHTS you preached ?
但是当一个纽约警察殴打获得允许留下来的无家可归者，并且这件事被视频记录下来。在这个前提下，无家可归者仍然被纽约警方以各种罪名指控。
这就是你们宣扬的人权？
concerner
All the facts you're bringing up is the positive facts about China. But we watch video sending out from China about execution and oppression of Chinese, that is not just applying on individuals by some individuals as you mention facts from US society. But it is ordering by the head of state. Killing millions because they're calling for reforming or having some points to disagree with the government is not called caring, it's called abusing of power . Selling organs harvesting from "criminal" is not a human policy. It's sub-human policy.
你提出来的所有关于中国的事实都是正面的。但是我们看到的从中国来的有关执行死刑和镇压的视频，那都不是像你提到来自美国社会的事情那样，由一群人施加在一个人身上。而是由国家元首下的命令。就因为呼吁改革或者与政府政见不同就杀死数百万人，这不叫关怀，这叫做滥用权力。贩卖罪犯的器官也是不人道的政策。这是没有人性的政策。
OIitwist
What about American gangster movies? Do you like Al Capone?
美国黑帮电影怎么样？你喜欢 Al Capone吗？（译者注：阿尔·卡彭--美国著名黑帮教父。）
huoknbvfew
An atrocious terrorist still world hegemony aim in China regulates the inconvenient information that there is and criticizes it in the other countries and rolls it up
It is the too bad country and human being of the property very
以世界霸权为目标的中国恐怖主义就是管制那些别的国家对她批评的麻烦信息并且卷起来不让人知道。
中国真是个差劲的国家，并且它在私人财产方面也非常差劲。
TheGodfather72
CNN using 1986 photo means that USA and CNN are not keeping up with recent developments in China. They want to know, but they didnt know much, so we can presume most of the times USA and CNN were just guessing about China various internal issues and matters.
CNN用1986年的老照片意味着美国和CNN根本没有跟上最近中国发展的步伐。他们想了解中国，但是他们又并不太了解中国。所以我们能推测出大部分时间，美国和CNN只是在猜测中国的各种内部问题和事务。
huoknbvfew
World many people do not know that a Chinese is a madman
世界上很多人都不知道中国就是个疯子国家。
slozomby
because forced labor camps are where the good photo ops are?
因为劳教所是出好照片的地方？
ZeonBoi
OIitwist, Godfather means a legal guardian over a child, it's a christian tradition, why do you accuse him of being mafia? get real man.
（回复OIitwist）
教父意味着一个孩子的合法监护人，这是个基督教传统，你为什么说他是个黑手党？现实点吧，兄弟。
OIitwist
Why do you use a Mafia name?
为什么你用一个黑帮名字？
TheGodfather72
World peace can only be achieved when USA takes the 1st step of not trying to make everybody their presumed enemies.
You try to do it to Soviet Union, we almost have nuclear wars. Then we had cold war.
How can China be your relaxed friend when you USA tries to set up military bases close to China , sell weapons to Taiwan, play politics with China neighbor India and back Japan whether right or wrong ?
Then you come out with reports saying China increased their military budget.
If China do so, it is not a surprise , isn't it ?
Who started all these sensitivities and presumed enmity ?
Think about it.
Instead of preaching world peace you are actually doing the otherwise.
只有在美国迈出不把任何人当作他们的假想敌的第一步时才能实现世界和平。
当美国试着这么对苏联是，我们几乎经历核战争。然后我们迎来冷战。
当美国试图在中国周边建立军事基地，出口武器给台湾以及不管对错的与中国的邻居印度和日本在中国的背后玩弄阴谋诡计，你怎么能指望中国成为一个让你觉得放松的朋友？
然后你又提出报告说中国增加了他们的军事预算。
如果中国这么做了，也不奇怪，不是么？
谁触发了所有这些敏感和假定的敌意？
好好想想。
与口里宣称世界和平相反的是，你实际上正在破坏世界和平。
MrPeppermint
I wonder if Foxconn is considered a labor camp?
我想知道富士康是不是被当作一个劳教所？
ZeonBoi
No, Foxconn is a taiwanese slave camp manufacturing company, approved by Apple.
不，富士康是一家经苹果公司批准的台湾奴隶营制造公司。
OIitwist
If it is, the Chinese government is guilty.
如果它是的，中国政府就有罪。
Canmav
ZeonBoi: You'd better check your facts. FoxConn has contracts with many many multinational companies, not just Apple.. and since you bring up Apple you must be one of the fools who loves to scream and shout "Apple bad, Apple bad".
If you don't like Foxconn then you need to boycott the following: Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and Vizio.
（回复ZeonBoi）你最好核实下你说的。富士康不仅仅与苹果公司合作，他还与很多很多跨国公司有着承包合作关系。因为你提到萍果公司，你一定是那些喜欢大叫“苹果坏，苹果坏”的人中间的一个。
如果你不喜欢富士康，那么你需要抵制以下这些公司：宏基、亚马逊、思科、戴尔、惠普、英特尔、微软、摩托罗拉、任天堂、诺基亚、三星、索尼和瑞轩。
John20102010
No, they are working on how to get iphone users meningitis to match "made in USA" quality.
不，他们正致力于怎么样让使用Iphone的脑残们达到“美国制造”的质量标准。
TheGodfather72
I am not from China. And I am not born in China. But if you travel to China, most people their main priorities are not about democracy. It is about livelihood. Jobs, careers, education, a better life like anybody else in the world.
And the wise China leaders (top ones, not those villages style types) are doing exactly so, not perfect , but they are trying their best to.
1.4 billion people. It is no easy feat.
Just compare China and India. Any global businessmen would tell you what are the differences in various aspects and terms.
我并非来自中国，我也不是在中国出生。但是如果你去过中国，你会发现那里大多数的人们首要关注的并不是民主，而是关于生活、工作、事业、教育，像世界其他地方的人民一样期望更好的生活。
并且明智的中国领导者们（我指的最高领导人们，而不是那些乡下的官员）也正是这么做的，虽然不完美，但是他们正在尽最大的努力这么做。
14亿人口，这绝非易事。
只需要对比一下中国和印度，随便一个全球公司会告诉你存在于方方面面的不同点。
10ppl10accts
You sound like you like to suck a China ++++
听上去，你喜欢巴结中国。。。
OIitwist
Do you like gangs?
你喜欢帮派么？
Bull31
I didn't realize China was using labor camps to "re-educate" people. I guess every nation has it's way of dealing with undesirables. Maybe the US can learn something from China.
过去我没有发现中国用劳教所来“重新教育”人们。我猜每个国家都有自己的方式来对付这些不良分子。
也许美国能跟中国学一下。
Beendare
You can't be serious. Summary incarceration with no trial. Did you read the article? A woman was sent to forced labor because she objected to 7 men raping her daughter. The system in China is rife with abuse. Perhaps the only advantage is the people who experience such injustice develop a life long hate of the CCP.
你绝对在开玩笑。没有审判的简易监禁。难道你没有读这篇文章么？一个女人因为控诉七个男人强奸她的女儿而被送进劳教所。中国的劳教制度充斥着虐待。也许这个制度唯一的好处就是那些经过过这种不公正待遇的人们因此而长期憎恨中国共产党。
TheGodfather72
The top leaders in China always give the right and righteous directions.
If crimes do happen say in the prison, remember this:
The top leaders didn't give such orders and would never approve of it;
It is those village leaders or maybe some prison leaders who do all those crimes for their selfish benefit. It is wrong of course if it does happened. But remember these are not the directives or orders from the very top leaders. You think it is easy to control such a big population and country ?
Madoff, who gave the orders for him to cheat ? The USA government ? No.
Even with such tight laws in Wall Street or the Fed or Congress or whatever ....you can't even sniff out Madoff ...... So do we blame the US government for Madoff wrong doing ?
Do we blame the US government for the 2 servicemen in Okinawa for the rape of the Japanese ? Who gave the orders ? Your top leaders or just the 2 servicemen themselves for that Okinawa rape ?
中国的最高领导者们总是指出正确的和公义的方向。
如果传说中拘留所的这些罪行真的发生了，记住以下几点：
中国的最高领导者们不会给出那样的指示，也绝不会赞同这样做。
这都是那些地方领导者们或者一些监狱系统的领导者为了他们自己的利益而犯下这些罪行。如果这真的发生了，它当然是不对的。但是请记住，这一切并不是来自中国最高领导者们的指示和命令。你认为管理一个拥有庞大人口和广袤国土的国家很容易么？
谁给了Madoff（麦道夫骗局--此案被称为华尔街有史以来的最大诈骗案）行骗的权利？美国政府么？不是。
即使有着华尔街如此严格的法律或联邦调查局或国会或任何....你甚至都无法察觉Madoff骗局。。。难道我们因为Madoff的错误行径而指责美国政府么？
我们因为两名军人在日本冲绳县犯下的强奸案指责美国政府了码？谁对冲绳县强奸案下的命令？美国最高领导人或者就是这两个军人？
concerner
Oh yeah!!!! Millions people's death could not be detected by a hawky government... wow, ...it's so funny!
哦耶！！！一个目光敏锐明察秋毫的政府不可能发现数百万人的死亡。。。哇哦。。。真是搞笑！
ScholarOfMen
Your words do not make sense. It is not that I pretend to know who you are, but for you to so easily talk about world governments and leaders as if you know them, sorry......
你的话没有任何意义。不是我假装知道你是谁，而是你能够轻易地讨论各国政府和领导者们，好像你认识他们一样，对不起。。。。
OpinionChan
All good until you cited Weibo and microbloggers as your sources... Thats like going to reddit and asking them what they think of 4chan.
所有一切都没问题直到你引用微博和微博主们来作为你的依据。。。那就像是去找 reddit问他们对4chan的看法。（译者注：reddit和4chan都是美国的论坛。）
OIitwist
Like you can trust the CCP........obviously you do......how much are you paid btw...?
似乎你信任中国共产党。。。明显你信任。。。顺便问一句你能获得多少报酬？
OpinionChan
Didnt you and your 250 trolling aliases burn down in that Pakistan factory fire a month ago? What are you doing back here?
你和你其他250个马甲没有在一个月前巴基斯坦的工厂大火中烧毁么？你现在回到这儿来在做什么？
10ppl10accts
Never listen to the man with the cattle prod shoved up another man's ---
绝对不要听这个跟人胡搅蛮缠的人的话。
TheGodfather72
And Yankees, please do the world a favor. Ok ?
Your baseball tournament, please don't call it the World Series. It is not a world event, it is not even regional.
Your ancestors the Brits don't like it too. They think it is a joke. don't insult the world , ok Yankees amigos ? : )
Now, the World Cup is the Real Thing. More than 100 countries taking part qualifying.
Yankees，帮这个世界一个忙，好吧？（译注：美国棒球比赛中的纽约洋基队）
请别把你们的棒球联赛称之为世界职业棒球大赛。它根本就不是一项世界性赛事，怎么样？Yankees朋友们？
世界杯才是实至名归。超过一百个国家参与了这项赛事。
Tim Liang
wth does this have to do with...ahh watever...dumb@$$es
这究竟跟什么有关系。。。啊。随便啦。。无语。。
10ppl10accts
Eat the rice out of my stink.
吃我的大便吧。
MrPeppermint
Grabbing lands from Tibetans isn't the answer mate.
夺走西藏人民的土地不是答案，哥们。
TheGodfather72
LOL :D
哈哈
Tim Liang
who's grabbing lands? Tibetans were part of China since the Yuan Dynasty. If you have a problem, go dig up Ghengis Khan's body and challenge him to a duel.
谁掠夺西藏领土？西藏至元朝开始就是中国的一部分。如果你有意见，你就去把成吉思汗的坟墓挖开，和他来个决斗。
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
Formosa, have u ever wondered why the dirty communists managed to beat your democratic Nationalist government (KMT) in the chinese civil war?becuase you were way worst than the Mao's mad bunch, and thats no easy feats.
The Chinese are still someway behind the west with their moral and ethical standards, but they have improved tremendously in the last 2 decades, its just a matter of time before they match and overtake the west.
Is that why u are so seemingly worried and bittered?
福尔摩沙（即台湾），你有没有想过为什么在中国内战里，肮脏的共产党设法击败你的民主国民政府(国民党)吗?
因为你们的行为比毛泽东的一系列疯狂举动更加糟糕，这也绝非易事。
在道德伦理方面中国仍旧落后于西方世界，但是他们在过去的二十多年里取得了惊人的进步。他们赶上并超过西方世界只是个时间问题。
这就是你看上去担心受怕又痛苦的原因吗？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c
its all about WAR for u isn't it? China (and the US) have NO plans to destroy their own economies with wars
settle down and let the grown ups to deal with the world's issues yea?
（回复cnn-040343583eb9d7da9f8ab38b6c）
对你而言一切都有关战争，不是么？中国和美国都完全没有打一场摧毁双方经济的战争的想法。
消停下吧你，让大人们来对于世界问题好吧？
THEGenuineOLiTWiST
shovelingsnow
As much as i like your butter chicken, i have no desire to become an Indian
sorry about that
（回复shovelingsnow）尽管我非常喜欢你们的奶油鸡，但我一点也没有成为一个印度人的想法。对此我感到抱歉。。
ManyGoodFriender
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ShovelinSnow said;" you'll never be like us because all you see is what we have that you don't. You don't look at what it took to get there."
I must asked THEGenuineOLiTWist these question.
Why do you never like Indians.?
Is it true as Shovel said: "because all you see is what Indians have that you don't."
"You don't look at what it took Indian to get there" --- destitute and corruption.
We shouldn't dislike Indians because of ShovelinSnow's inciting and silly behavior.
ShovelinSnow is the Black Cow of the Family.... I mean Black Sheep......
ShoveIinSnow说：“你永远不会喜欢我们，因为你看到都是我们拥有而你没有的。你却不去考虑为什么会是这样一种情况。”
我要问THEGenuineOLiTWist如下这些问题。
为什么你从来都不喜欢印度人？
Shovel说的“因为你看到都是印度人拥有而你没有”，这是真的么？
“你没有考虑到印度人走到这一步都付出了什么”---贫民和腐败。
我们不应该因为ShoveIinSnow的带有煽动性和愚蠢的表现而讨厌他。
ShoveIinSnow就是“牛群里的黑牛”。。我的意思是指害群之马。。。。
（译者注：Black Sheep在英语中是害群之马的意思，此处可能因为印度人视牛为圣物的传统，而改用Black Cow调侃ShoveIinSnow。）
ShoveIinSnow
It's impossible for you to be like us, because you copy.
你不可能喜欢我们，因为你们抄袭。