超级军网[讨论]《167舰对海军意义和影响》中的一点不明之处
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/30 12:05:53
<P>挥戈的首篇海军文章里有这么一段：</P>
<P>“考虑到167舰不是以防空作为主要的任务，因此，该舰应该不会装备我国最先进的远程舰空导弹系统，但很可能会采用与引进的“现代”级上类似的中程舰空导弹系统，由于与“施基利”同级的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统已经在新一代的舰艇上服役，所以对167进行改装应该没有什么技术问题。”</P>
<P>我们又考虑到170上的HH9可能是上面所说的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统，是否115和167改装还会使用HH9？可我记得龙啸说115肯定用“施基利”，何况我们买了N套！</P>
<P>难道挥戈错了？</P><P>挥戈的首篇海军文章里有这么一段：</P>
<P>“考虑到167舰不是以防空作为主要的任务，因此，该舰应该不会装备我国最先进的远程舰空导弹系统，但很可能会采用与引进的“现代”级上类似的中程舰空导弹系统，由于与“施基利”同级的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统已经在新一代的舰艇上服役，所以对167进行改装应该没有什么技术问题。”</P>
<P>我们又考虑到170上的HH9可能是上面所说的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统，是否115和167改装还会使用HH9？可我记得龙啸说115肯定用“施基利”，何况我们买了N套！</P>
<P>难道挥戈错了？</P>
<P>“考虑到167舰不是以防空作为主要的任务，因此，该舰应该不会装备我国最先进的远程舰空导弹系统，但很可能会采用与引进的“现代”级上类似的中程舰空导弹系统，由于与“施基利”同级的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统已经在新一代的舰艇上服役，所以对167进行改装应该没有什么技术问题。”</P>
<P>我们又考虑到170上的HH9可能是上面所说的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统，是否115和167改装还会使用HH9？可我记得龙啸说115肯定用“施基利”，何况我们买了N套！</P>
<P>难道挥戈错了？</P><P>挥戈的首篇海军文章里有这么一段：</P>
<P>“考虑到167舰不是以防空作为主要的任务，因此，该舰应该不会装备我国最先进的远程舰空导弹系统，但很可能会采用与引进的“现代”级上类似的中程舰空导弹系统，由于与“施基利”同级的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统已经在新一代的舰艇上服役，所以对167进行改装应该没有什么技术问题。”</P>
<P>我们又考虑到170上的HH9可能是上面所说的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统，是否115和167改装还会使用HH9？可我记得龙啸说115肯定用“施基利”，何况我们买了N套！</P>
<P>难道挥戈错了？</P>
<P>是墨林的文章，挥戈出了个名字，如果有什么错误请忍耐．</P>[em05]
<P>……“施基利”除了单臂外，本身也发展有垂直发射的型号。H9是远程的大家伙，和“施基利”不是同样级别的东西。</P>
<B>以下是引用<I>lizyu</I>在2005-2-1 12:02:48的发言：</B>
<P>……“施基利”除了单臂外，本身也发展有垂直发射的型号。H9是远程的大家伙，和“施基利”不是同样级别的东西。</P>
说实话对HH9并不是很熟悉，知大致知道是基于S300的变形，高人们来科普一下或者给出介绍的网址我们自己看吧。
<B>以下是引用<I>lizyu</I>在2005-2-1 12:02:48的发言：</B>
<P>……“施基利”除了单臂外，本身也发展有垂直发射的型号。H9是远程的大家伙，和“施基利”不是同样级别的东西。</P>
<P>
<P>与“施基利”同级的新型中程垂直发射舰空导弹系统已经在新一代的舰艇上服役，</P>
<P>这是什么呢？</P>
主要原文中“已经”两字用地夸张了点，造成了误解
HH-9和S-300没什么关系吧
国内确实有一套中程的热VLS系统。应该是为054准备的
<B>以下是引用<I>dream1977</I>在2005-2-1 12:19:18的发言：</B>
>
说实话对HH9并不是很熟悉，知大致知道是基于S300的变形，高人们来科普一下或者给出介绍的网址我们自己看吧。
<P>海版有资料我看过，大致搜索下就行，不过我看大多是主观猜测，主要数据参考的还是S300。</P>
<B>以下是引用<I>二锅头爱好者</I>在2005-2-1 20:58:43的发言：</B>
国内确实有一套中程的热VLS系统。应该是为054准备的
来历？
As PLAN has no other choices,
___________________________________________________________
JANE'S MISSILES AND ROCKETS - DECEMBER 01, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia moves to vertical-launch Shtil
Miroslav Gyürösi
Russia is offering a vertical-launch (VL) version of the Shtil-1 naval
surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, writes Miroslav Gyürösi. The move
from a system based on trainable launchers to one based on below-deck
VL modules is similar to that taken by the US Navy in the mid-1980s
when it switched from a Mk 26 trainable launcher to a VL system for the
sixth and subsequent Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers.
Russian Public Joint Stock Company DNPP (Dolgoprudnenskoye naucsno -
proizvodstvennoye predpriyatie), which is part of the Almaz-Antey Air
Defence Concern, developed the new 9M317ME SAM as an upgrade for the
Shtil-1 naval air-defence system. Developed by the Altair Naval Radio
Electronics Scientific Institute Public Joint Stock Company, which is
also a member of the Almaz-Antey Air Defence Concern, Shtil-1 is an
improved version of the earlier Shtil system that is the export variant
of the M-22 Uragan system fitted to the Project 956 (Sovremenny-class)
destroyers.
The 9M38 missile was developed in the 1970s to be a common round for
the land-based 9K37 Buk (SA-11 'Gadfly') and naval Uragan/Shtil (SA-N-7
'Gadfly') system. It used a configuration similar to that of the US
Standard Missile, with cruciform wings of long chord and short span,
plus cruciform tail surfaces. In the land-based system, the 9M38 was
fired from 9A38 and 9A310 self-propelled launch vehicles, while the
naval Shtil and Shtil-1 systems used a trainable launcher fed by a
below-deck loading system based on 12-cell drum magazines.
In the early 1990s, development started on an improved 9M317 missile
able to replace the 9M38. This armed the Buk-M1-2 (SA-17 'Grizzly')
system, which entered service with the Russian Army in 1998. The 9M317
was similar in configuration to the 9M38 but the cruciform wings were
of much smaller chord and span.
The new 9M317ME missile is being marketed as a further development of
the older 9M38 and 9M317 but the changes are on a scale that makes the
round almost a new missile. It is designed to be fired from a
cylindrical container/launcher mounted in a cell within the new Shtil-1
VL system. This arrangement provides a much higher rate of fire than
the original trainable launcher and magazine system used in Shtil and
Shtil-1. The latter could fire a missile every six seconds, but the
9M317ME-based system being offered for Sovremenny-class destroyers can
fire rounds at one-to-two-second intervals.
The new launch technique has required drastic changes to the
configuration of the missile. The long-chord wings have been replaced
by vestigial fixed surfaces located not on the missile centrebody but
near the rear of the airframe just ahead of the cruciform tail
surfaces. These fixed surfaces may be intended to control the airflow
passing the tail fins. The latter move to steer the missile - the same
control scheme used on the 9M38 - but are folded to allow the round to
be stored in the container/launcher.
The 9M317ME is 5.18 m long and 360 mm in diameter. The tail surfaces have a span of 820 mm when deployed.
After the round leaves the VL, a spring mechanism unfolds the tail
surfaces and four gas-control vanes operating in the motor efflux turn
the missile towards the required direction of flight. Once this
turnover manoeuvre is completed, the gas-control vanes are no longer
used. Subsequent flight control is via the moving tail surfaces.
A dual-mode solid-propellant rocket motor based on a more energetic
charge than that used in the 9M38 provides the missile with a maximum
speed of Mach 4.5 (1,550 m/s), a significant increase over the Mach 3.0
(1,230 m/s) of the older missile.
Guidance remains a combination of inertial and semi-active radar (SAR)
homing. Inertial guidance is used in the early stages of flight and
then the SAR seeker is activated to complete the interception. If the
missile is being fired against long-range targets, it can receive
mid-course updates while flying under inertial control. Launch weight
of the 9M317ME is 581 kg. It is armed with a 62 kg warhead initiated by
a dual-mode (active or semi-active) radar proximity fuze, or a contact
fuze.
The range of the modernised Shtil-1 system is between 3.5-32 km, while
the altitude coverage is from 5 m up to 15 km. These limits are set not
by the performance of the missile but by the capabilities of the
existing shipboard illuminating radars. This suggests further growth
potential if the system is upgraded or if new radars are added.
The VL version of Shtil-1 is being offered for surface ships with
displacement of more than 1,500 tonnes, providing protection against
aircraft, helicopters, fast patrol boats and anti-ship missiles. It can
also control the ship's guns. Publicly, no claims are being made for an
anti-ballistic missile (ABM) capability, but the land-based 3M317
missile is reported to have successfully engaged Smerch artillery
rockets and a ballistic missile during tests conducted in the
mid-1990s. The VL system's ability to cope with tactical
ballistic-missile threats may be limited by the performance of the
existing shipboard radars.
The basic VL module contains 12 9M317ME missiles but, as with the
unmodified Shtil and Shtil-1 systems, the upgrade is being offered in a
series of optional configurations, which add greater numbers of MR-90
Orekh ('Front Dome') target-illumination radars and additional VL
modules. All variants use target information from the ship's 3D
surveillance radar.
Vertical-launch Shtil-1 configurations
Technical characteristic Option number
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Reaction time, [seconds] 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10
Firing interval [seconds] 2 - 3 2 - 3 2 - 3 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2
Number of target channels 2 4 4 6 8 8 10 12
Magazine capacity [rounds] 12 24 36 48 - 72 72 108 108 - 144 144
Number of VL modules 1 2 3 4 - 6 6 9 9 - 12 12
The new 9M317ME missile is a near-wingless design.
(Source: Miroslav Gyürösi)
*** FAIR USE NOTICE. This message
contains copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
authorized by the copyright owner. It is being made available without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included information in their efforts to advance their understanding of
arms trade activities, for non-profit research and educational purposes
only. I believe that this constitutes a 'fair use' of the copyrighted
material as provided for in section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Law. If
you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes of your own that
go beyond 'fair use,' you must obtain permission from the copyright
owner.
For more information go t
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
___________________________________________________________
JANE'S MISSILES AND ROCKETS - DECEMBER 01, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia moves to vertical-launch Shtil
Miroslav Gyürösi
Russia is offering a vertical-launch (VL) version of the Shtil-1 naval
surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, writes Miroslav Gyürösi. The move
from a system based on trainable launchers to one based on below-deck
VL modules is similar to that taken by the US Navy in the mid-1980s
when it switched from a Mk 26 trainable launcher to a VL system for the
sixth and subsequent Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers.
Russian Public Joint Stock Company DNPP (Dolgoprudnenskoye naucsno -
proizvodstvennoye predpriyatie), which is part of the Almaz-Antey Air
Defence Concern, developed the new 9M317ME SAM as an upgrade for the
Shtil-1 naval air-defence system. Developed by the Altair Naval Radio
Electronics Scientific Institute Public Joint Stock Company, which is
also a member of the Almaz-Antey Air Defence Concern, Shtil-1 is an
improved version of the earlier Shtil system that is the export variant
of the M-22 Uragan system fitted to the Project 956 (Sovremenny-class)
destroyers.
The 9M38 missile was developed in the 1970s to be a common round for
the land-based 9K37 Buk (SA-11 'Gadfly') and naval Uragan/Shtil (SA-N-7
'Gadfly') system. It used a configuration similar to that of the US
Standard Missile, with cruciform wings of long chord and short span,
plus cruciform tail surfaces. In the land-based system, the 9M38 was
fired from 9A38 and 9A310 self-propelled launch vehicles, while the
naval Shtil and Shtil-1 systems used a trainable launcher fed by a
below-deck loading system based on 12-cell drum magazines.
In the early 1990s, development started on an improved 9M317 missile
able to replace the 9M38. This armed the Buk-M1-2 (SA-17 'Grizzly')
system, which entered service with the Russian Army in 1998. The 9M317
was similar in configuration to the 9M38 but the cruciform wings were
of much smaller chord and span.
The new 9M317ME missile is being marketed as a further development of
the older 9M38 and 9M317 but the changes are on a scale that makes the
round almost a new missile. It is designed to be fired from a
cylindrical container/launcher mounted in a cell within the new Shtil-1
VL system. This arrangement provides a much higher rate of fire than
the original trainable launcher and magazine system used in Shtil and
Shtil-1. The latter could fire a missile every six seconds, but the
9M317ME-based system being offered for Sovremenny-class destroyers can
fire rounds at one-to-two-second intervals.
The new launch technique has required drastic changes to the
configuration of the missile. The long-chord wings have been replaced
by vestigial fixed surfaces located not on the missile centrebody but
near the rear of the airframe just ahead of the cruciform tail
surfaces. These fixed surfaces may be intended to control the airflow
passing the tail fins. The latter move to steer the missile - the same
control scheme used on the 9M38 - but are folded to allow the round to
be stored in the container/launcher.
The 9M317ME is 5.18 m long and 360 mm in diameter. The tail surfaces have a span of 820 mm when deployed.
After the round leaves the VL, a spring mechanism unfolds the tail
surfaces and four gas-control vanes operating in the motor efflux turn
the missile towards the required direction of flight. Once this
turnover manoeuvre is completed, the gas-control vanes are no longer
used. Subsequent flight control is via the moving tail surfaces.
A dual-mode solid-propellant rocket motor based on a more energetic
charge than that used in the 9M38 provides the missile with a maximum
speed of Mach 4.5 (1,550 m/s), a significant increase over the Mach 3.0
(1,230 m/s) of the older missile.
Guidance remains a combination of inertial and semi-active radar (SAR)
homing. Inertial guidance is used in the early stages of flight and
then the SAR seeker is activated to complete the interception. If the
missile is being fired against long-range targets, it can receive
mid-course updates while flying under inertial control. Launch weight
of the 9M317ME is 581 kg. It is armed with a 62 kg warhead initiated by
a dual-mode (active or semi-active) radar proximity fuze, or a contact
fuze.
The range of the modernised Shtil-1 system is between 3.5-32 km, while
the altitude coverage is from 5 m up to 15 km. These limits are set not
by the performance of the missile but by the capabilities of the
existing shipboard illuminating radars. This suggests further growth
potential if the system is upgraded or if new radars are added.
The VL version of Shtil-1 is being offered for surface ships with
displacement of more than 1,500 tonnes, providing protection against
aircraft, helicopters, fast patrol boats and anti-ship missiles. It can
also control the ship's guns. Publicly, no claims are being made for an
anti-ballistic missile (ABM) capability, but the land-based 3M317
missile is reported to have successfully engaged Smerch artillery
rockets and a ballistic missile during tests conducted in the
mid-1990s. The VL system's ability to cope with tactical
ballistic-missile threats may be limited by the performance of the
existing shipboard radars.
The basic VL module contains 12 9M317ME missiles but, as with the
unmodified Shtil and Shtil-1 systems, the upgrade is being offered in a
series of optional configurations, which add greater numbers of MR-90
Orekh ('Front Dome') target-illumination radars and additional VL
modules. All variants use target information from the ship's 3D
surveillance radar.
Vertical-launch Shtil-1 configurations
Technical characteristic Option number
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Reaction time, [seconds] 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10
Firing interval [seconds] 2 - 3 2 - 3 2 - 3 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2
Number of target channels 2 4 4 6 8 8 10 12
Magazine capacity [rounds] 12 24 36 48 - 72 72 108 108 - 144 144
Number of VL modules 1 2 3 4 - 6 6 9 9 - 12 12
The new 9M317ME missile is a near-wingless design.
(Source: Miroslav Gyürösi)
*** FAIR USE NOTICE. This message
contains copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
authorized by the copyright owner. It is being made available without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included information in their efforts to advance their understanding of
arms trade activities, for non-profit research and educational purposes
only. I believe that this constitutes a 'fair use' of the copyrighted
material as provided for in section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Law. If
you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes of your own that
go beyond 'fair use,' you must obtain permission from the copyright
owner.
For more information go t
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
感谢dibl提供资料/
<B>以下是引用<I>dream1977</I>在2005-2-5 9:50:37的发言：</B>
的
来历？
970
<B>以下是引用<I>二锅头爱好者</I>在2005-2-5 20:13:26的发言：</B>
？
970
<P>我是问这套VLS的来源是哪型导弹，自研还是引进？</P>
<B>以下是引用<I>dream1977</I>在2005-2-5 22:09:10的发言：</B>
0
<P>我是问这套VLS的来源是哪型导弹，自研还是引进？</P>
自研,型号不方便说.为054准备
<P>您的意思是167是标准的!</P>
<B>以下是引用<I>二锅头爱好者</I>在2005-2-6 17:13:53的发言：</B>
>
自研,型号不方便说.为054准备
确有。
114是不是给它预留滴.
[此贴子已经被作者于2005-2-15 21:33:34编辑过]
VLS的sa－-n-12，呵呵，保守估计，头已经被调换了，哈哈
<B>以下是引用<I>f22</I>在2005-2-13 13:13:13的发言：</B>
备
确有。
是否类似法国的那个紫……
不可能是紫苑，现在已经证实，这个美好的想法并非现实。
<B>以下是引用<I>JCFERRET</I>在2005-2-18 1:02:16的发言：</B>不知道今年能否美梦成真！
不可能是紫苑，现在已经证实，这个美好的想法并非现实。
说句不打击大伙的话，HH9从八七年立项，到现在还是一个不成才的东西，，，[em03]
<B>以下是引用<I>青若飞鸟</I>在2005-2-18 18:37:18的发言：</B>
说句不打击大伙的话，HH9从八七年立项，到现在还是一个不成才的东西，，，[em03]
<P>我们国家的底子薄啊！基础工业不扎实啊！所以造成了我们现在的飞机和舰船和坦克没有一个合适合格的”心脏“啊！</P>
<P>紫苑，无缘？</P>
等造出来,再看看
<B>以下是引用<I>老机</I>在2005-2-19 14:30:35的发言：</B>
等造出来,再看看
你指哪个？
<B>以下是引用<I>青若飞鸟</I>在2005-2-18 18:37:18的发言：</B>
说句不打击大伙的话，HH9从八七年立项，到现在还是一个不成才的东西，，，[em03]
装什么蒜！不成材的东西往170上装？中国有这样的先例吗
<B>以下是引用<I>二锅头爱好者</I>在2005-2-19 18:22:22的发言：</B>
]
装什么蒜！不成材的东西往170上装？中国有这样的先例吗
有理！！！！！！！！！！！！！
<B>以下是引用<I>二锅头爱好者</I>在2005-2-19 18:22:22的发言：</B>
]
装什么蒜！不成材的东西往170上装？中国有这样的先例吗
<P>还真有，比如HQ-61。虽然定型了，但是到今天也不成才。</P>
<B>以下是引用<I>JCFERRET</I>在2005-2-20 2:32:36的发言：</B>
吗
<P>还真有，比如HQ-61。虽然定型了，但是到今天也不成才。</P>
同样有理，郁闷中................