超级军网美帝参访三哥海军 沉默不语 继而惊呼神油不可战胜！！
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/29 00:18:22
转自西西河 h t t p: / / w ww.cchere.com/article/3740458
注：此文是美国reddit上某美海军第七舰队伯克级驱逐舰上的军官所作，这家伙在印美联合演习时，在印度海军新德里号驱逐舰上待了5天。内容主要关于他在那5天里的见闻。此文以问答形式进行。原文作者的身份咱坛子里有人去确认过，确实是个前美国海军军官，他的youtube帐号上有其在海军学院当学员的视频，从舰桥上拍摄的，伯克舰炮实弹射击的视频，以及横须贺跨年烟花表演的视频。
I see a lot of disappointments/shock in your comments. Were there any positives? Did they have good food?
Actually, their food was excellent. They also made really good tea, too. I drank nothing but hot milk tea my entire 5 days there because I was afraid of drinking the water (I saw their reverse osmosis units, dear god).
问：我看到你的评论里表达很多失望和震惊，就没什么值得称道的么？他们提供的伙食好么？
答：说实话，他们的伙食很棒。他们煮的茶也非常好。那5天里我什么都没喝，除了热奶茶。
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How bad was it?
15+ years old and they looked like nobody had done any maintenance in the last 5+ years. Their ROs were in such poor shape that despite having a greater fresh water production capacity than my ship by several thousand gallons, they were still on water hours.
问：这船到底有但烂？
答：15年以上的舰龄，但看起来像是近5年内没进行过任何维护。他们的逆渗透净水器的状况非常杯具，以至于即便他们的净水器比我们的在产能上多了几千加仑，他们却只能在限定时段供水。
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do they runs things differently then the USN?
Their engineering practices were abysmal. No undershirts, no steel-toed boots - they wore sandals - no hearing protection in their engineering spaces. No lagging (sound dampening material) in any space. No electrical safety whatsoever. No operational risk management. No concept of safety of navigation. Absolutely did not adhere to rules of the road. They more or less did not have any hard-copy written procedures for any exercise or event, at all. They had no concept of the coded fleet tactical system that US coalition forces and allies utilize (they literally made it up as they went along, and when I tried to interject and explain to them how it worked, they ignored me). When I arrived onboard they thought I was a midshipman and treated me as such. I had to be frank and explain that I was a commissioned officer and that yes, I stood officer on the deck onboard my ship and was a qualified surface warfare officer. They don't entrust their people with any responsibility until they are very senior Lieutenants (O-3s) and junior Lieutenant Commanders (O-4s). At this point in the US Navy there are literally guys commanding ships, and these guys couldn't even be trusted to handle a radio circuit.
问：他们的办事的方式和美国海军有何差别？
答：他们的工程操作糟透了。没人穿汗衫，没有铁头工地靴--他们穿拖鞋，工程区域没人采用听觉保护措施，任何区域都没有隔音材料，没有任何电气安全措施，没有风险管理机制，毫无导安全航行的概念，根本不遵守海上交通规则。大致上他们根本没有书面形式的操作规范，也从不对事件进行笔头记录，完全没有。他们对美国和盟国联军所用的编队战术加密系统（就是编队中舰与舰间在为编队战术进行沟通协调时所用的标准用语体系）毫无认识。他们在演习过程中居然从头到尾自己编着来。当我尝试帮忙并向他们解释正确的方法时，他们完全不尿我。我刚上舰的时候，他们还当我是一准尉般对待，我必须很直白告诉他们我是一个正式的职业军官，我在我的军舰上是有挥权的水面作战军官。在他们这里，除非是你是一名海军上尉，或者是海军少校，要么没人敢让你担当任何职责。在美海军的战舰上，有文化的家伙指挥军舰，而这帮玩意儿连摆弄个无线电都够呛。
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How knowledgeable did you find the officers to be?
Well, their captain was driving the ship when it came within 50ft of the stern of a USNS replenishment ship and at any given time there were multiple officers on the bridge screaming at each other. They were generally clueless and had almost zero seamanship skills. I found their enlisted guys to be far more competent than their officers on the bridge.
问：你觉得他们的军官水平怎们样？
答：呃，他们的上校（舰长？）指挥操舵的时候，直接把船开进离美国补给舰舰尾仅仅15米的距离。而且无论任何时候，舰桥里都有一群军官互相嚷嚷来嚷嚷去。大致上讲，他们的航海技术为0，大部分时间都不知道该干嘛。我觉得他们的一般的水兵比起他们的舰桥里军官似乎懂得还多不少。
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think they're so incompetent and have such crappy operations?
Well, coming within 50ft of another ship at sea is never a good sign. But, afterwards, the general consensus/excuse that they came up with during their mini-debrief was "oh well, rough seas, better luck next time" not "holy ******* ****, we parted a tensioned wire cable made of braided steel under hundreds of thousands of pounds of tension".
And wearing sandals during replenishment/helo ops/boat ops/in engineering spaces pretty much says it all. They legitimately didn't understand why I was wearing steel-toed flight deck boots.
Things like these aren't cultural differences, they are golden exhibitions of their sheer lack of common sense and seamanship.
问：你觉得他们为何会这么烂？
答：任何时候把自己的船开到离别人15米的距离都不是好事儿，然而，时候他们在汇报中冒出的理由居然是海况糟糕，下次运气会好些。而且无论是补给，直升机任务，交通艇任务，工程施工过程中，都穿着凉拖。他们完全不明白为什么我穿着铁头飞行甲板靴。这些问题可不仅仅是出于文化差异。他们毫无常识，航海技能也非常匮乏，简直是极品秀下限。
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Are you breaking any US Navy rules by telling us all this?
2. How did they do in the exercise? Did they get "sunk" five times or what?
3. Were there equivalent Indian Navy personnel on a US Navy ship and do you happen to know their assessment? Were they disappointed by the lack of slaves?
4. Let's say **** hits the fan. India and Pakistan (or any other country. Take your pick) are at war and the ship you were on is sent into action. Would they be an effective fighting force or are they on the bottom of the ocean before the first day of shooting?
Great AMA btw!
1. I'm not breaking any rules in telling you this.
2. It wasn't a wargame-type exercise. It was basically one big five-day photo op.
3. I only have second-hand information about the Indian equivalent that came onboard my ship, but from what I understand he was impressed by the cleanliness of the ship and amazed that we had hot running water all day...
4. Truthfully - bottom of the ocean. I would be surprised if most of their gear worked. The stuff I saw (I got a pretty extensive tour) looked like it fell straight out of the 60s and 70s and I would be genuinely flabbergasted if they got any rounds off. They could barely avoid hitting other ships in the middle of the Pacific, I doubt they'd be popping off any rounds with any amount of accuracy.
问：1.你跟我们说这些不会喝茶吧？
2.他们在演习中表现如何？不会被击沉5次吧？
3.美军的军舰上有和你一样的交换人员么？他们提出的评价如何？
4.假如说吧，便便打到电风扇了，印度跟巴基斯坦或者随便哪个国家打了起来，而你刚好在印度军舰上并上了战场，他们将会是作战力强大的武装还是说第一天就去喂鱼养珊瑚了？另外，很棒的问答！！
答：
1.不会喝茶
2.这并不是一次战斗演习，顶多是个大规模的宣传活动罢了。
3.我只是听说了些关于被派到我的穿上的印度军官的事儿。他看见我们的军舰那么干净而且居然全天有热水供应很惊讶。
4.实话么，喂鱼养珊瑚吧。看到他们的装备居然还能使我已经很惊讶了。他们的东西给我的感觉像是6、70年代穿越过来的。所以能开火就已经阿弥陀佛了。然而鉴于他们在太平洋里都几乎避不开别的船只看来，即便开了火也不见得能打着些什么。
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read 'Indian Navy' and I immediately pictured a ridiculously crowded boat, with everyone living(?) in squalor. Is that at all the case?
Actually, yes. Before I came onboard I was told to bring my own roll of toilet paper, if that alludes to the conditions that they live in at all. There was actually toilet paper aboard their ship. It was thinner than one-ply, if that's possible. I might as well have been wiping my *** with my bare hand.
After a particularly wet small boat ride over to their ship, I was dying to get out of my sea water-drenched uniform and into a fresh one (unfortunately, my entire bag was completely soaked to include my shirts, underwear, spare uniform, phone, camera, and my roll of toilet paper)...
I walked into their "officer's head" (their are extremely, extremely hierarchical and classist, even from a military standpoint) and there was a good 2" of ****-water sloshing around back and forth across the deck and an obscure, probably live wire with it's end wrapped in electrical tape non-surreptitiously protruding from the wall.
They have an entire "class" of civilians onboard. I still don't know what to make of them. I think they were some sort of cheap labor, but everybody onboard referred to them as slaves. As in, they used the word "slave". Anyways, the quarters those guys lived in was awful, it was basically a big open space partitioned with a sheet. They slept on a steel deck with a simple blanket and a pillow. Good times.
Their enlisted guys didn't have it much better. Their berthing was infested with rats (a guy from my ship swore up and down that he saw a rat that was no-**** the length of his arm) and another US sailor from another ship came back covered in bed-bug sores. Dude looked like he had ******* chicken pocks.
问：我读了《印度海军》，并马上就想象到了一艘挤满了人的船，而且都住在垃圾堆了。是这样的么？
答：没错。在我上船前就有人告诉我自己带手纸，虽然手纸对于那种生活环境的改善也不过是聊胜于无。不过他们的船上的厕所其实备手纸的，只是巨薄，几乎和赤手空拳抠菊花没差别。我所乘坐的开往他们的军舰的小艇巨小，我身上被海水浸透了。我迫不及待想换身干的制服，然而我的行李也全都湿透了，包括衬衫，内衣，备换的制服，电话，相机，包括我心爱的手纸。
我进了他们的"长官的头”（officer's head,就是军官用的厕所)，好家伙，真忒娘豪华，即便按照军用标准来看！然而忒么的地面居然有两英寸深的SHI水随船荡漾，而且还有裹着电工胶布，看样子像是通了电的电线从墙里伸了出来，光明正大地泡在这池混水中。
他们船上有好一伙不明真相的群众，到现在我都不知道他们是干嘛的。我猜他们是某种廉价劳工？可每个人都管他们叫奴隶，没错儿，是直呼他们为奴隶。这帮奴隶居住的角落的环境很糟糕，基本上就是在露天的硬地板上挂上一块大床单分割出一个角落，几个人就躺在光溜溜的甲板上盖上一张薄床单就这么睡。一般水兵也好不到哪儿去。他们睡的宿舍成了耗子繁殖基地。和我一起同来的哥们儿MLGB地骂着说他看见了一只跟他胳膊一般粗的耗子。来自另一艘军舰美国水兵回去后全身没有一处没被臭虫叮到，跟长满了水痘一般。转自西西河 h t t p: / / w ww.cchere.com/article/3740458
注：此文是美国reddit上某美海军第七舰队伯克级驱逐舰上的军官所作，这家伙在印美联合演习时，在印度海军新德里号驱逐舰上待了5天。内容主要关于他在那5天里的见闻。此文以问答形式进行。原文作者的身份咱坛子里有人去确认过，确实是个前美国海军军官，他的youtube帐号上有其在海军学院当学员的视频，从舰桥上拍摄的，伯克舰炮实弹射击的视频，以及横须贺跨年烟花表演的视频。
I see a lot of disappointments/shock in your comments. Were there any positives? Did they have good food?
Actually, their food was excellent. They also made really good tea, too. I drank nothing but hot milk tea my entire 5 days there because I was afraid of drinking the water (I saw their reverse osmosis units, dear god).
问：我看到你的评论里表达很多失望和震惊，就没什么值得称道的么？他们提供的伙食好么？
答：说实话，他们的伙食很棒。他们煮的茶也非常好。那5天里我什么都没喝，除了热奶茶。
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How bad was it?
15+ years old and they looked like nobody had done any maintenance in the last 5+ years. Their ROs were in such poor shape that despite having a greater fresh water production capacity than my ship by several thousand gallons, they were still on water hours.
问：这船到底有但烂？
答：15年以上的舰龄，但看起来像是近5年内没进行过任何维护。他们的逆渗透净水器的状况非常杯具，以至于即便他们的净水器比我们的在产能上多了几千加仑，他们却只能在限定时段供水。
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do they runs things differently then the USN?
Their engineering practices were abysmal. No undershirts, no steel-toed boots - they wore sandals - no hearing protection in their engineering spaces. No lagging (sound dampening material) in any space. No electrical safety whatsoever. No operational risk management. No concept of safety of navigation. Absolutely did not adhere to rules of the road. They more or less did not have any hard-copy written procedures for any exercise or event, at all. They had no concept of the coded fleet tactical system that US coalition forces and allies utilize (they literally made it up as they went along, and when I tried to interject and explain to them how it worked, they ignored me). When I arrived onboard they thought I was a midshipman and treated me as such. I had to be frank and explain that I was a commissioned officer and that yes, I stood officer on the deck onboard my ship and was a qualified surface warfare officer. They don't entrust their people with any responsibility until they are very senior Lieutenants (O-3s) and junior Lieutenant Commanders (O-4s). At this point in the US Navy there are literally guys commanding ships, and these guys couldn't even be trusted to handle a radio circuit.
问：他们的办事的方式和美国海军有何差别？
答：他们的工程操作糟透了。没人穿汗衫，没有铁头工地靴--他们穿拖鞋，工程区域没人采用听觉保护措施，任何区域都没有隔音材料，没有任何电气安全措施，没有风险管理机制，毫无导安全航行的概念，根本不遵守海上交通规则。大致上他们根本没有书面形式的操作规范，也从不对事件进行笔头记录，完全没有。他们对美国和盟国联军所用的编队战术加密系统（就是编队中舰与舰间在为编队战术进行沟通协调时所用的标准用语体系）毫无认识。他们在演习过程中居然从头到尾自己编着来。当我尝试帮忙并向他们解释正确的方法时，他们完全不尿我。我刚上舰的时候，他们还当我是一准尉般对待，我必须很直白告诉他们我是一个正式的职业军官，我在我的军舰上是有挥权的水面作战军官。在他们这里，除非是你是一名海军上尉，或者是海军少校，要么没人敢让你担当任何职责。在美海军的战舰上，有文化的家伙指挥军舰，而这帮玩意儿连摆弄个无线电都够呛。
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How knowledgeable did you find the officers to be?
Well, their captain was driving the ship when it came within 50ft of the stern of a USNS replenishment ship and at any given time there were multiple officers on the bridge screaming at each other. They were generally clueless and had almost zero seamanship skills. I found their enlisted guys to be far more competent than their officers on the bridge.
问：你觉得他们的军官水平怎们样？
答：呃，他们的上校（舰长？）指挥操舵的时候，直接把船开进离美国补给舰舰尾仅仅15米的距离。而且无论任何时候，舰桥里都有一群军官互相嚷嚷来嚷嚷去。大致上讲，他们的航海技术为0，大部分时间都不知道该干嘛。我觉得他们的一般的水兵比起他们的舰桥里军官似乎懂得还多不少。
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think they're so incompetent and have such crappy operations?
Well, coming within 50ft of another ship at sea is never a good sign. But, afterwards, the general consensus/excuse that they came up with during their mini-debrief was "oh well, rough seas, better luck next time" not "holy ******* ****, we parted a tensioned wire cable made of braided steel under hundreds of thousands of pounds of tension".
And wearing sandals during replenishment/helo ops/boat ops/in engineering spaces pretty much says it all. They legitimately didn't understand why I was wearing steel-toed flight deck boots.
Things like these aren't cultural differences, they are golden exhibitions of their sheer lack of common sense and seamanship.
问：你觉得他们为何会这么烂？
答：任何时候把自己的船开到离别人15米的距离都不是好事儿，然而，时候他们在汇报中冒出的理由居然是海况糟糕，下次运气会好些。而且无论是补给，直升机任务，交通艇任务，工程施工过程中，都穿着凉拖。他们完全不明白为什么我穿着铁头飞行甲板靴。这些问题可不仅仅是出于文化差异。他们毫无常识，航海技能也非常匮乏，简直是极品秀下限。
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Are you breaking any US Navy rules by telling us all this?
2. How did they do in the exercise? Did they get "sunk" five times or what?
3. Were there equivalent Indian Navy personnel on a US Navy ship and do you happen to know their assessment? Were they disappointed by the lack of slaves?
4. Let's say **** hits the fan. India and Pakistan (or any other country. Take your pick) are at war and the ship you were on is sent into action. Would they be an effective fighting force or are they on the bottom of the ocean before the first day of shooting?
Great AMA btw!
1. I'm not breaking any rules in telling you this.
2. It wasn't a wargame-type exercise. It was basically one big five-day photo op.
3. I only have second-hand information about the Indian equivalent that came onboard my ship, but from what I understand he was impressed by the cleanliness of the ship and amazed that we had hot running water all day...
4. Truthfully - bottom of the ocean. I would be surprised if most of their gear worked. The stuff I saw (I got a pretty extensive tour) looked like it fell straight out of the 60s and 70s and I would be genuinely flabbergasted if they got any rounds off. They could barely avoid hitting other ships in the middle of the Pacific, I doubt they'd be popping off any rounds with any amount of accuracy.
问：1.你跟我们说这些不会喝茶吧？
2.他们在演习中表现如何？不会被击沉5次吧？
3.美军的军舰上有和你一样的交换人员么？他们提出的评价如何？
4.假如说吧，便便打到电风扇了，印度跟巴基斯坦或者随便哪个国家打了起来，而你刚好在印度军舰上并上了战场，他们将会是作战力强大的武装还是说第一天就去喂鱼养珊瑚了？另外，很棒的问答！！
答：
1.不会喝茶
2.这并不是一次战斗演习，顶多是个大规模的宣传活动罢了。
3.我只是听说了些关于被派到我的穿上的印度军官的事儿。他看见我们的军舰那么干净而且居然全天有热水供应很惊讶。
4.实话么，喂鱼养珊瑚吧。看到他们的装备居然还能使我已经很惊讶了。他们的东西给我的感觉像是6、70年代穿越过来的。所以能开火就已经阿弥陀佛了。然而鉴于他们在太平洋里都几乎避不开别的船只看来，即便开了火也不见得能打着些什么。
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read 'Indian Navy' and I immediately pictured a ridiculously crowded boat, with everyone living(?) in squalor. Is that at all the case?
Actually, yes. Before I came onboard I was told to bring my own roll of toilet paper, if that alludes to the conditions that they live in at all. There was actually toilet paper aboard their ship. It was thinner than one-ply, if that's possible. I might as well have been wiping my *** with my bare hand.
After a particularly wet small boat ride over to their ship, I was dying to get out of my sea water-drenched uniform and into a fresh one (unfortunately, my entire bag was completely soaked to include my shirts, underwear, spare uniform, phone, camera, and my roll of toilet paper)...
I walked into their "officer's head" (their are extremely, extremely hierarchical and classist, even from a military standpoint) and there was a good 2" of ****-water sloshing around back and forth across the deck and an obscure, probably live wire with it's end wrapped in electrical tape non-surreptitiously protruding from the wall.
They have an entire "class" of civilians onboard. I still don't know what to make of them. I think they were some sort of cheap labor, but everybody onboard referred to them as slaves. As in, they used the word "slave". Anyways, the quarters those guys lived in was awful, it was basically a big open space partitioned with a sheet. They slept on a steel deck with a simple blanket and a pillow. Good times.
Their enlisted guys didn't have it much better. Their berthing was infested with rats (a guy from my ship swore up and down that he saw a rat that was no-**** the length of his arm) and another US sailor from another ship came back covered in bed-bug sores. Dude looked like he had ******* chicken pocks.
问：我读了《印度海军》，并马上就想象到了一艘挤满了人的船，而且都住在垃圾堆了。是这样的么？
答：没错。在我上船前就有人告诉我自己带手纸，虽然手纸对于那种生活环境的改善也不过是聊胜于无。不过他们的船上的厕所其实备手纸的，只是巨薄，几乎和赤手空拳抠菊花没差别。我所乘坐的开往他们的军舰的小艇巨小，我身上被海水浸透了。我迫不及待想换身干的制服，然而我的行李也全都湿透了，包括衬衫，内衣，备换的制服，电话，相机，包括我心爱的手纸。
我进了他们的"长官的头”（officer's head,就是军官用的厕所)，好家伙，真忒娘豪华，即便按照军用标准来看！然而忒么的地面居然有两英寸深的SHI水随船荡漾，而且还有裹着电工胶布，看样子像是通了电的电线从墙里伸了出来，光明正大地泡在这池混水中。
他们船上有好一伙不明真相的群众，到现在我都不知道他们是干嘛的。我猜他们是某种廉价劳工？可每个人都管他们叫奴隶，没错儿，是直呼他们为奴隶。这帮奴隶居住的角落的环境很糟糕，基本上就是在露天的硬地板上挂上一块大床单分割出一个角落，几个人就躺在光溜溜的甲板上盖上一张薄床单就这么睡。一般水兵也好不到哪儿去。他们睡的宿舍成了耗子繁殖基地。和我一起同来的哥们儿MLGB地骂着说他看见了一只跟他胳膊一般粗的耗子。来自另一艘军舰美国水兵回去后全身没有一处没被臭虫叮到，跟长满了水痘一般。
注：此文是美国reddit上某美海军第七舰队伯克级驱逐舰上的军官所作，这家伙在印美联合演习时，在印度海军新德里号驱逐舰上待了5天。内容主要关于他在那5天里的见闻。此文以问答形式进行。原文作者的身份咱坛子里有人去确认过，确实是个前美国海军军官，他的youtube帐号上有其在海军学院当学员的视频，从舰桥上拍摄的，伯克舰炮实弹射击的视频，以及横须贺跨年烟花表演的视频。
I see a lot of disappointments/shock in your comments. Were there any positives? Did they have good food?
Actually, their food was excellent. They also made really good tea, too. I drank nothing but hot milk tea my entire 5 days there because I was afraid of drinking the water (I saw their reverse osmosis units, dear god).
问：我看到你的评论里表达很多失望和震惊，就没什么值得称道的么？他们提供的伙食好么？
答：说实话，他们的伙食很棒。他们煮的茶也非常好。那5天里我什么都没喝，除了热奶茶。
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How bad was it?
15+ years old and they looked like nobody had done any maintenance in the last 5+ years. Their ROs were in such poor shape that despite having a greater fresh water production capacity than my ship by several thousand gallons, they were still on water hours.
问：这船到底有但烂？
答：15年以上的舰龄，但看起来像是近5年内没进行过任何维护。他们的逆渗透净水器的状况非常杯具，以至于即便他们的净水器比我们的在产能上多了几千加仑，他们却只能在限定时段供水。
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do they runs things differently then the USN?
Their engineering practices were abysmal. No undershirts, no steel-toed boots - they wore sandals - no hearing protection in their engineering spaces. No lagging (sound dampening material) in any space. No electrical safety whatsoever. No operational risk management. No concept of safety of navigation. Absolutely did not adhere to rules of the road. They more or less did not have any hard-copy written procedures for any exercise or event, at all. They had no concept of the coded fleet tactical system that US coalition forces and allies utilize (they literally made it up as they went along, and when I tried to interject and explain to them how it worked, they ignored me). When I arrived onboard they thought I was a midshipman and treated me as such. I had to be frank and explain that I was a commissioned officer and that yes, I stood officer on the deck onboard my ship and was a qualified surface warfare officer. They don't entrust their people with any responsibility until they are very senior Lieutenants (O-3s) and junior Lieutenant Commanders (O-4s). At this point in the US Navy there are literally guys commanding ships, and these guys couldn't even be trusted to handle a radio circuit.
问：他们的办事的方式和美国海军有何差别？
答：他们的工程操作糟透了。没人穿汗衫，没有铁头工地靴--他们穿拖鞋，工程区域没人采用听觉保护措施，任何区域都没有隔音材料，没有任何电气安全措施，没有风险管理机制，毫无导安全航行的概念，根本不遵守海上交通规则。大致上他们根本没有书面形式的操作规范，也从不对事件进行笔头记录，完全没有。他们对美国和盟国联军所用的编队战术加密系统（就是编队中舰与舰间在为编队战术进行沟通协调时所用的标准用语体系）毫无认识。他们在演习过程中居然从头到尾自己编着来。当我尝试帮忙并向他们解释正确的方法时，他们完全不尿我。我刚上舰的时候，他们还当我是一准尉般对待，我必须很直白告诉他们我是一个正式的职业军官，我在我的军舰上是有挥权的水面作战军官。在他们这里，除非是你是一名海军上尉，或者是海军少校，要么没人敢让你担当任何职责。在美海军的战舰上，有文化的家伙指挥军舰，而这帮玩意儿连摆弄个无线电都够呛。
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How knowledgeable did you find the officers to be?
Well, their captain was driving the ship when it came within 50ft of the stern of a USNS replenishment ship and at any given time there were multiple officers on the bridge screaming at each other. They were generally clueless and had almost zero seamanship skills. I found their enlisted guys to be far more competent than their officers on the bridge.
问：你觉得他们的军官水平怎们样？
答：呃，他们的上校（舰长？）指挥操舵的时候，直接把船开进离美国补给舰舰尾仅仅15米的距离。而且无论任何时候，舰桥里都有一群军官互相嚷嚷来嚷嚷去。大致上讲，他们的航海技术为0，大部分时间都不知道该干嘛。我觉得他们的一般的水兵比起他们的舰桥里军官似乎懂得还多不少。
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think they're so incompetent and have such crappy operations?
Well, coming within 50ft of another ship at sea is never a good sign. But, afterwards, the general consensus/excuse that they came up with during their mini-debrief was "oh well, rough seas, better luck next time" not "holy ******* ****, we parted a tensioned wire cable made of braided steel under hundreds of thousands of pounds of tension".
And wearing sandals during replenishment/helo ops/boat ops/in engineering spaces pretty much says it all. They legitimately didn't understand why I was wearing steel-toed flight deck boots.
Things like these aren't cultural differences, they are golden exhibitions of their sheer lack of common sense and seamanship.
问：你觉得他们为何会这么烂？
答：任何时候把自己的船开到离别人15米的距离都不是好事儿，然而，时候他们在汇报中冒出的理由居然是海况糟糕，下次运气会好些。而且无论是补给，直升机任务，交通艇任务，工程施工过程中，都穿着凉拖。他们完全不明白为什么我穿着铁头飞行甲板靴。这些问题可不仅仅是出于文化差异。他们毫无常识，航海技能也非常匮乏，简直是极品秀下限。
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Are you breaking any US Navy rules by telling us all this?
2. How did they do in the exercise? Did they get "sunk" five times or what?
3. Were there equivalent Indian Navy personnel on a US Navy ship and do you happen to know their assessment? Were they disappointed by the lack of slaves?
4. Let's say **** hits the fan. India and Pakistan (or any other country. Take your pick) are at war and the ship you were on is sent into action. Would they be an effective fighting force or are they on the bottom of the ocean before the first day of shooting?
Great AMA btw!
1. I'm not breaking any rules in telling you this.
2. It wasn't a wargame-type exercise. It was basically one big five-day photo op.
3. I only have second-hand information about the Indian equivalent that came onboard my ship, but from what I understand he was impressed by the cleanliness of the ship and amazed that we had hot running water all day...
4. Truthfully - bottom of the ocean. I would be surprised if most of their gear worked. The stuff I saw (I got a pretty extensive tour) looked like it fell straight out of the 60s and 70s and I would be genuinely flabbergasted if they got any rounds off. They could barely avoid hitting other ships in the middle of the Pacific, I doubt they'd be popping off any rounds with any amount of accuracy.
问：1.你跟我们说这些不会喝茶吧？
2.他们在演习中表现如何？不会被击沉5次吧？
3.美军的军舰上有和你一样的交换人员么？他们提出的评价如何？
4.假如说吧，便便打到电风扇了，印度跟巴基斯坦或者随便哪个国家打了起来，而你刚好在印度军舰上并上了战场，他们将会是作战力强大的武装还是说第一天就去喂鱼养珊瑚了？另外，很棒的问答！！
答：
1.不会喝茶
2.这并不是一次战斗演习，顶多是个大规模的宣传活动罢了。
3.我只是听说了些关于被派到我的穿上的印度军官的事儿。他看见我们的军舰那么干净而且居然全天有热水供应很惊讶。
4.实话么，喂鱼养珊瑚吧。看到他们的装备居然还能使我已经很惊讶了。他们的东西给我的感觉像是6、70年代穿越过来的。所以能开火就已经阿弥陀佛了。然而鉴于他们在太平洋里都几乎避不开别的船只看来，即便开了火也不见得能打着些什么。
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read 'Indian Navy' and I immediately pictured a ridiculously crowded boat, with everyone living(?) in squalor. Is that at all the case?
Actually, yes. Before I came onboard I was told to bring my own roll of toilet paper, if that alludes to the conditions that they live in at all. There was actually toilet paper aboard their ship. It was thinner than one-ply, if that's possible. I might as well have been wiping my *** with my bare hand.
After a particularly wet small boat ride over to their ship, I was dying to get out of my sea water-drenched uniform and into a fresh one (unfortunately, my entire bag was completely soaked to include my shirts, underwear, spare uniform, phone, camera, and my roll of toilet paper)...
I walked into their "officer's head" (their are extremely, extremely hierarchical and classist, even from a military standpoint) and there was a good 2" of ****-water sloshing around back and forth across the deck and an obscure, probably live wire with it's end wrapped in electrical tape non-surreptitiously protruding from the wall.
They have an entire "class" of civilians onboard. I still don't know what to make of them. I think they were some sort of cheap labor, but everybody onboard referred to them as slaves. As in, they used the word "slave". Anyways, the quarters those guys lived in was awful, it was basically a big open space partitioned with a sheet. They slept on a steel deck with a simple blanket and a pillow. Good times.
Their enlisted guys didn't have it much better. Their berthing was infested with rats (a guy from my ship swore up and down that he saw a rat that was no-**** the length of his arm) and another US sailor from another ship came back covered in bed-bug sores. Dude looked like he had ******* chicken pocks.
问：我读了《印度海军》，并马上就想象到了一艘挤满了人的船，而且都住在垃圾堆了。是这样的么？
答：没错。在我上船前就有人告诉我自己带手纸，虽然手纸对于那种生活环境的改善也不过是聊胜于无。不过他们的船上的厕所其实备手纸的，只是巨薄，几乎和赤手空拳抠菊花没差别。我所乘坐的开往他们的军舰的小艇巨小，我身上被海水浸透了。我迫不及待想换身干的制服，然而我的行李也全都湿透了，包括衬衫，内衣，备换的制服，电话，相机，包括我心爱的手纸。
我进了他们的"长官的头”（officer's head,就是军官用的厕所)，好家伙，真忒娘豪华，即便按照军用标准来看！然而忒么的地面居然有两英寸深的SHI水随船荡漾，而且还有裹着电工胶布，看样子像是通了电的电线从墙里伸了出来，光明正大地泡在这池混水中。
他们船上有好一伙不明真相的群众，到现在我都不知道他们是干嘛的。我猜他们是某种廉价劳工？可每个人都管他们叫奴隶，没错儿，是直呼他们为奴隶。这帮奴隶居住的角落的环境很糟糕，基本上就是在露天的硬地板上挂上一块大床单分割出一个角落，几个人就躺在光溜溜的甲板上盖上一张薄床单就这么睡。一般水兵也好不到哪儿去。他们睡的宿舍成了耗子繁殖基地。和我一起同来的哥们儿MLGB地骂着说他看见了一只跟他胳膊一般粗的耗子。来自另一艘军舰美国水兵回去后全身没有一处没被臭虫叮到，跟长满了水痘一般。转自西西河 h t t p: / / w ww.cchere.com/article/3740458
注：此文是美国reddit上某美海军第七舰队伯克级驱逐舰上的军官所作，这家伙在印美联合演习时，在印度海军新德里号驱逐舰上待了5天。内容主要关于他在那5天里的见闻。此文以问答形式进行。原文作者的身份咱坛子里有人去确认过，确实是个前美国海军军官，他的youtube帐号上有其在海军学院当学员的视频，从舰桥上拍摄的，伯克舰炮实弹射击的视频，以及横须贺跨年烟花表演的视频。
I see a lot of disappointments/shock in your comments. Were there any positives? Did they have good food?
Actually, their food was excellent. They also made really good tea, too. I drank nothing but hot milk tea my entire 5 days there because I was afraid of drinking the water (I saw their reverse osmosis units, dear god).
问：我看到你的评论里表达很多失望和震惊，就没什么值得称道的么？他们提供的伙食好么？
答：说实话，他们的伙食很棒。他们煮的茶也非常好。那5天里我什么都没喝，除了热奶茶。
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How bad was it?
15+ years old and they looked like nobody had done any maintenance in the last 5+ years. Their ROs were in such poor shape that despite having a greater fresh water production capacity than my ship by several thousand gallons, they were still on water hours.
问：这船到底有但烂？
答：15年以上的舰龄，但看起来像是近5年内没进行过任何维护。他们的逆渗透净水器的状况非常杯具，以至于即便他们的净水器比我们的在产能上多了几千加仑，他们却只能在限定时段供水。
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do they runs things differently then the USN?
Their engineering practices were abysmal. No undershirts, no steel-toed boots - they wore sandals - no hearing protection in their engineering spaces. No lagging (sound dampening material) in any space. No electrical safety whatsoever. No operational risk management. No concept of safety of navigation. Absolutely did not adhere to rules of the road. They more or less did not have any hard-copy written procedures for any exercise or event, at all. They had no concept of the coded fleet tactical system that US coalition forces and allies utilize (they literally made it up as they went along, and when I tried to interject and explain to them how it worked, they ignored me). When I arrived onboard they thought I was a midshipman and treated me as such. I had to be frank and explain that I was a commissioned officer and that yes, I stood officer on the deck onboard my ship and was a qualified surface warfare officer. They don't entrust their people with any responsibility until they are very senior Lieutenants (O-3s) and junior Lieutenant Commanders (O-4s). At this point in the US Navy there are literally guys commanding ships, and these guys couldn't even be trusted to handle a radio circuit.
问：他们的办事的方式和美国海军有何差别？
答：他们的工程操作糟透了。没人穿汗衫，没有铁头工地靴--他们穿拖鞋，工程区域没人采用听觉保护措施，任何区域都没有隔音材料，没有任何电气安全措施，没有风险管理机制，毫无导安全航行的概念，根本不遵守海上交通规则。大致上他们根本没有书面形式的操作规范，也从不对事件进行笔头记录，完全没有。他们对美国和盟国联军所用的编队战术加密系统（就是编队中舰与舰间在为编队战术进行沟通协调时所用的标准用语体系）毫无认识。他们在演习过程中居然从头到尾自己编着来。当我尝试帮忙并向他们解释正确的方法时，他们完全不尿我。我刚上舰的时候，他们还当我是一准尉般对待，我必须很直白告诉他们我是一个正式的职业军官，我在我的军舰上是有挥权的水面作战军官。在他们这里，除非是你是一名海军上尉，或者是海军少校，要么没人敢让你担当任何职责。在美海军的战舰上，有文化的家伙指挥军舰，而这帮玩意儿连摆弄个无线电都够呛。
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How knowledgeable did you find the officers to be?
Well, their captain was driving the ship when it came within 50ft of the stern of a USNS replenishment ship and at any given time there were multiple officers on the bridge screaming at each other. They were generally clueless and had almost zero seamanship skills. I found their enlisted guys to be far more competent than their officers on the bridge.
问：你觉得他们的军官水平怎们样？
答：呃，他们的上校（舰长？）指挥操舵的时候，直接把船开进离美国补给舰舰尾仅仅15米的距离。而且无论任何时候，舰桥里都有一群军官互相嚷嚷来嚷嚷去。大致上讲，他们的航海技术为0，大部分时间都不知道该干嘛。我觉得他们的一般的水兵比起他们的舰桥里军官似乎懂得还多不少。
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you think they're so incompetent and have such crappy operations?
Well, coming within 50ft of another ship at sea is never a good sign. But, afterwards, the general consensus/excuse that they came up with during their mini-debrief was "oh well, rough seas, better luck next time" not "holy ******* ****, we parted a tensioned wire cable made of braided steel under hundreds of thousands of pounds of tension".
And wearing sandals during replenishment/helo ops/boat ops/in engineering spaces pretty much says it all. They legitimately didn't understand why I was wearing steel-toed flight deck boots.
Things like these aren't cultural differences, they are golden exhibitions of their sheer lack of common sense and seamanship.
问：你觉得他们为何会这么烂？
答：任何时候把自己的船开到离别人15米的距离都不是好事儿，然而，时候他们在汇报中冒出的理由居然是海况糟糕，下次运气会好些。而且无论是补给，直升机任务，交通艇任务，工程施工过程中，都穿着凉拖。他们完全不明白为什么我穿着铁头飞行甲板靴。这些问题可不仅仅是出于文化差异。他们毫无常识，航海技能也非常匮乏，简直是极品秀下限。
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Are you breaking any US Navy rules by telling us all this?
2. How did they do in the exercise? Did they get "sunk" five times or what?
3. Were there equivalent Indian Navy personnel on a US Navy ship and do you happen to know their assessment? Were they disappointed by the lack of slaves?
4. Let's say **** hits the fan. India and Pakistan (or any other country. Take your pick) are at war and the ship you were on is sent into action. Would they be an effective fighting force or are they on the bottom of the ocean before the first day of shooting?
Great AMA btw!
1. I'm not breaking any rules in telling you this.
2. It wasn't a wargame-type exercise. It was basically one big five-day photo op.
3. I only have second-hand information about the Indian equivalent that came onboard my ship, but from what I understand he was impressed by the cleanliness of the ship and amazed that we had hot running water all day...
4. Truthfully - bottom of the ocean. I would be surprised if most of their gear worked. The stuff I saw (I got a pretty extensive tour) looked like it fell straight out of the 60s and 70s and I would be genuinely flabbergasted if they got any rounds off. They could barely avoid hitting other ships in the middle of the Pacific, I doubt they'd be popping off any rounds with any amount of accuracy.
问：1.你跟我们说这些不会喝茶吧？
2.他们在演习中表现如何？不会被击沉5次吧？
3.美军的军舰上有和你一样的交换人员么？他们提出的评价如何？
4.假如说吧，便便打到电风扇了，印度跟巴基斯坦或者随便哪个国家打了起来，而你刚好在印度军舰上并上了战场，他们将会是作战力强大的武装还是说第一天就去喂鱼养珊瑚了？另外，很棒的问答！！
答：
1.不会喝茶
2.这并不是一次战斗演习，顶多是个大规模的宣传活动罢了。
3.我只是听说了些关于被派到我的穿上的印度军官的事儿。他看见我们的军舰那么干净而且居然全天有热水供应很惊讶。
4.实话么，喂鱼养珊瑚吧。看到他们的装备居然还能使我已经很惊讶了。他们的东西给我的感觉像是6、70年代穿越过来的。所以能开火就已经阿弥陀佛了。然而鉴于他们在太平洋里都几乎避不开别的船只看来，即便开了火也不见得能打着些什么。
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read 'Indian Navy' and I immediately pictured a ridiculously crowded boat, with everyone living(?) in squalor. Is that at all the case?
Actually, yes. Before I came onboard I was told to bring my own roll of toilet paper, if that alludes to the conditions that they live in at all. There was actually toilet paper aboard their ship. It was thinner than one-ply, if that's possible. I might as well have been wiping my *** with my bare hand.
After a particularly wet small boat ride over to their ship, I was dying to get out of my sea water-drenched uniform and into a fresh one (unfortunately, my entire bag was completely soaked to include my shirts, underwear, spare uniform, phone, camera, and my roll of toilet paper)...
I walked into their "officer's head" (their are extremely, extremely hierarchical and classist, even from a military standpoint) and there was a good 2" of ****-water sloshing around back and forth across the deck and an obscure, probably live wire with it's end wrapped in electrical tape non-surreptitiously protruding from the wall.
They have an entire "class" of civilians onboard. I still don't know what to make of them. I think they were some sort of cheap labor, but everybody onboard referred to them as slaves. As in, they used the word "slave". Anyways, the quarters those guys lived in was awful, it was basically a big open space partitioned with a sheet. They slept on a steel deck with a simple blanket and a pillow. Good times.
Their enlisted guys didn't have it much better. Their berthing was infested with rats (a guy from my ship swore up and down that he saw a rat that was no-**** the length of his arm) and another US sailor from another ship came back covered in bed-bug sores. Dude looked like he had ******* chicken pocks.
问：我读了《印度海军》，并马上就想象到了一艘挤满了人的船，而且都住在垃圾堆了。是这样的么？
答：没错。在我上船前就有人告诉我自己带手纸，虽然手纸对于那种生活环境的改善也不过是聊胜于无。不过他们的船上的厕所其实备手纸的，只是巨薄，几乎和赤手空拳抠菊花没差别。我所乘坐的开往他们的军舰的小艇巨小，我身上被海水浸透了。我迫不及待想换身干的制服，然而我的行李也全都湿透了，包括衬衫，内衣，备换的制服，电话，相机，包括我心爱的手纸。
我进了他们的"长官的头”（officer's head,就是军官用的厕所)，好家伙，真忒娘豪华，即便按照军用标准来看！然而忒么的地面居然有两英寸深的SHI水随船荡漾，而且还有裹着电工胶布，看样子像是通了电的电线从墙里伸了出来，光明正大地泡在这池混水中。
他们船上有好一伙不明真相的群众，到现在我都不知道他们是干嘛的。我猜他们是某种廉价劳工？可每个人都管他们叫奴隶，没错儿，是直呼他们为奴隶。这帮奴隶居住的角落的环境很糟糕，基本上就是在露天的硬地板上挂上一块大床单分割出一个角落，几个人就躺在光溜溜的甲板上盖上一张薄床单就这么睡。一般水兵也好不到哪儿去。他们睡的宿舍成了耗子繁殖基地。和我一起同来的哥们儿MLGB地骂着说他看见了一只跟他胳膊一般粗的耗子。来自另一艘军舰美国水兵回去后全身没有一处没被臭虫叮到，跟长满了水痘一般。
好多有意思的桥段其实没翻译 不过也都无伤大雅
楼主。你漏了补给舰那段。很经典哟。。。五英尺长的标枪哟。。。亲。。。这个东西不是几年前就出来了么？又翻出来啦
欧恩斯 发表于 2012-7-4 12:59 ![]()
这个东西不是几年前就出来了么？又翻出来啦
“几年前”倒没有，差不多不到半年吧:D
这个东西不是几年前就出来了么？又翻出来啦
“几年前”倒没有，差不多不到半年吧:D
年娇处啊
所以海军也什么了不起的,,,看,,连乞丐都能开......
老的起褶子的文章了
哈哈我火星了 今天才在西西河看到。 什么标枪？ 原文就没有啊
三哥真是给人带来欢乐
嗯，如果在南海把阿三的军舰击沉，会不会污染了太平洋呢。
好多有意思的桥段其实没翻译 不过也都无伤大雅
dongjiale116 发表于 2012-7-4 13:44 ![]()
好多有意思的桥段其实没翻译 不过也都无伤大雅
复读机？
好多有意思的桥段其实没翻译 不过也都无伤大雅
复读机？
我找到英语原文了 没翻译的我可以补出来 如果有人想看的话 h t t p: / / w w w .defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/129031-us-naval-officer-spent-5-days-onboard-indian-navy-warship-ins-delhi.html
联想到三哥的船离开魔都，漫天黑烟，果然用的燃料是正宗的恒河牌神油！
巴铁网站转载，不过TB士兵似乎也不带耳机防护听力的
原始贴已经被删除了，似乎这么贴还是有喝茶的可能的
http://www.defence.pk/forums/ind ... ship-ins-delhi.html
Here is an interesting AMA from a US Naval Officer who spent 5 days on Indian Navy warship, INS Delhi. AMA means AskMeAnything where a person is asked questions which he answers.
IAmA US Naval Officer who spent 5 days onboard an Indian Navy warship, INS Delhi. AMA. : IAmA
I am posting questions and answers below. The US Navy officer is anonymous.
I see a lot of disappointments/shock in your comments. Were there any positives? Did they have good food?
Actually, their food was excellent. They also made really good tea, too. I drank nothing but hot milk tea my entire 5 days there because I was afraid of drinking the water (I saw their reverse osmosis units, dear god).
How bad was it?
15+ years old and they looked like nobody had done any maintenance in the last 5+ years. Their ROs were in such poor shape that despite having a greater fresh water production capacity than my ship by several thousand gallons, they were still on water hours.
How do they runs things differently then the USN?
Their engineering practices were abysmal. No undershirts, no steel-toed boots - they wore sandals - no hearing protection in their engineering spaces. No lagging (sound dampening material) in any space. No electrical safety whatsoever. No operational risk management. No concept of safety of navigation. Absolutely did not adhere to rules of the road. They more or less did not have any hard-copy written procedures for any exercise or event, at all. They had no concept of the coded fleet tactical system that US coalition forces and allies utilize (they literally made it up as they went along, and when I tried to interject and explain to them how it worked, they ignored me). When I arrived onboard they thought I was a midshipman and treated me as such. I had to be frank and explain that I was a commissioned officer and that yes, I stood officer on the deck onboard my ship and was a qualified surface warfare officer. They don't entrust their people with any responsibility until they are very senior Lieutenants (O-3s) and junior Lieutenant Commanders (O-4s). At this point in the US Navy there are literally guys commanding ships, and these guys couldn't even be trusted to handle a radio circuit.
How knowledgeable did you find the officers to be?
Well, their captain was driving the ship when it came within 50ft of the stern of a USNS replenishment ship and at any given time there were multiple officers on the bridge screaming at each other. They were generally clueless and had almost zero seamanship skills. I found their enlisted guys to be far more competent than their officers on the bridge.
Why do you think they're so incompetent and have such crappy operations?
Well, coming within 50ft of another ship at sea is never a good sign. But, afterwards, the general consensus/excuse that they came up with during their mini-debrief was "oh well, rough seas, better luck next time" not "holy ******* ****, we parted a tensioned wire cable made of braided steel under hundreds of thousands of pounds of tension".
And wearing sandals during replenishment/helo ops/boat ops/in engineering spaces pretty much says it all. They legitimately didn't understand why I was wearing steel-toed flight deck boots.
Things like these aren't cultural differences, they are golden exhibitions of their sheer lack of common sense and seamanship.
1. Are you breaking any US Navy rules by telling us all this?
2. How did they do in the exercise? Did they get "sunk" five times or what?
3. Were there equivalent Indian Navy personnel on a US Navy ship and do you happen to know their assessment? Were they disappointed by the lack of slaves?
4. Let's say **** hits the fan. India and Pakistan (or any other country. Take your pick) are at war and the ship you were on is sent into action. Would they be an effective fighting force or are they on the bottom of the ocean before the first day of shooting?
Great AMA btw!
1. I'm not breaking any rules in telling you this.
2. It wasn't a wargame-type exercise. It was basically one big five-day photo op.
3. I only have second-hand information about the Indian equivalent that came onboard my ship, but from what I understand he was impressed by the cleanliness of the ship and amazed that we had hot running water all day...
4. Truthfully - bottom of the ocean. I would be surprised if most of their gear worked. The stuff I saw (I got a pretty extensive tour) looked like it fell straight out of the 60s and 70s and I would be genuinely flabbergasted if they got any rounds off. They could barely avoid hitting other ships in the middle of the Pacific, I doubt they'd be popping off any rounds with any amount of accuracy.
I read 'Indian Navy' and I immediately pictured a ridiculously crowded boat, with everyone living(?) in squalor. Is that at all the case?
Actually, yes. Before I came onboard I was told to bring my own roll of toilet paper, if that alludes to the conditions that they live in at all. There was actually toilet paper aboard their ship. It was thinner than one-ply, if that's possible. I might as well have been wiping my *** with my bare hand.
After a particularly wet small boat ride over to their ship, I was dying to get out of my sea water-drenched uniform and into a fresh one (unfortunately, my entire bag was completely soaked to include my shirts, underwear, spare uniform, phone, camera, and my roll of toilet paper)...
I walked into their "officer's head" (their are extremely, extremely hierarchical and classist, even from a military standpoint) and there was a good 2" of ****-water sloshing around back and forth across the deck and an obscure, probably live wire with it's end wrapped in electrical tape non-surreptitiously protruding from the wall.
They have an entire "class" of civilians onboard. I still don't know what to make of them. I think they were some sort of cheap labor, but everybody onboard referred to them as slaves. As in, they used the word "slave". Anyways, the quarters those guys lived in was awful, it was basically a big open space partitioned with a sheet. They slept on a steel deck with a simple blanket and a pillow. Good times.
Their enlisted guys didn't have it much better. Their berthing was infested with rats (a guy from my ship swore up and down that he saw a rat that was no-**** the length of his arm) and another US sailor from another ship came back covered in bed-bug sores. Dude looked like he had ******* chicken pocks.
Awesome AMA so far. I'm former US navy as well, so I can appreciate your shock and dismay at their abysmal practices.
1. What was your single biggest 'are you ******* kidding me' moment?
2. What was your biggest priority when you got back to your ship?
3. At any point did you consider trying to assume OOD for your own safety?
4. Will anyone important listen to your assessment of their battle-readiness?
Thanks in advance!
1. Have you ever seen a US ship do an unrep at sea? When we pull along side and shoot the shotline across (basically a thick piece of yarn for those who don't know) there's a nice soft tennis ball affixed to the end of it so that it'll bounce of the deck and someone can go retrieve it... the Indians shot a spear. A motherfucking spear. Like, a 16" long piece of metal with a point on the end....
2. Biggest priority was showering. I hadn't showered properly in almost 5 days, and all of my uniforms reeked of seawater.
3. I wouldn't dare try and assume the deck like that. Even on a US ship that would be extremely, extremely out of line. On a foreign Navy ship? **** it, I can swim... Honestly though, when they passed under (50 feet from) the replenishment ship, I was generally afraid they were going to collide. 50ft at sea is extremely, extremely close. I had to leave the bridge after that ****, I just couldn't stomach it anymore.
4. And yes, I wrote up a full-debrief afterwards that was read by my CO/XO and presumably ISIC.
On an arbitrary scale from 1-10, 1 being full retard and ten being space marine quality training and efficiency, how would you rate their sailors quality?
3, at best. They had some marginally competent folks, but for every one person who was half-competent, there were 4 other guys just standing around looking clueless.
Why do you think this is? Are those guys not trained? Are their ships "overstaffed"?
I have staff in India and find that there is a tendency to do nothing when they are unsure of something, instead of coming to me and asking for an explanation.
They were great at doing the same things over and over again, but when I simply asked for an outcome and expected them to figure out HOW to do it, they were stumped.
Well, considering how undermanned US ships are at the moment (our CRUDES - crusiers/destroyers) are, on average, missing about 20-30 people give or take - destroyers more so.... I would say that it's a fault in their training, because they have more than enough people running around not doing anything of particular use.
And I agree. These guys were having issues breaking/generating a fairly widely used NATO standard fleet tactical code system that we use among allied nations and I was trying (in vain) to show them how to say what they wanted to say. I literally wrote out word for word what they needed to pass over the rt circuit and they still refused to believe that I was correct...and continued passing incomprehensible gibberish over the airwaves..
NROTC Midshipman here. I didn't know CRUDES were undermanned – why is that? Also, what rank are you? Ship? How do I not suck as an officer?
CRUDES are very undermanned. USS LASTSHIP (flight I DDG) was at 262 when I left. The ships were built for about 315. Cruisers weren't quite as bad, but they're still lacking people as well.
I'm a LTJG. Won't tell you what ship I was on, just know that it's a DDG out of Yoko.
As for how to not suck as an officer? LISTEN TO YOUR CHIEF, YOUR FIRST CLASS, AND YOUR ****-HOT SECOND CLASSES. Always trust your people until they give you a reason not to.
Thanks for the AMA. Did you or any other USNS staff point out these obvious failings to your counterparts? Or was it all just for show and you were basically told to endure.
Oh, the USNS released a full sitrep (situation report) afterwards. And I absolutely told my chain of command about all of this stuff. There is a very specific process that we go through upon returning from any foreign Navy ship. Basically, we sit down and chronicle our entire experience.
Do you think the Indian navy will take any of this advice to heart? DO they actually want to improve? Or will they just brush it off or even be offended that you are insulting their capabilities?
The latter. They pretty much wrote off every piece of advice that I humbly gave them in my time onboard.
Were there sensitive areas onboard the Indian ship you weren't allowed to enter? And vice versa, were the Indian exchange officers allowed to see the US ships in their entirety?
I saw some, but not all of their fire control spaces. I saw their "ops room" - basically their version of the Combat Information Center. However, I would guarantee that I didn't see everything that there was to see.
And no Ally really truly ever sees every space on a US ship. There are spaces on our ships that even 99% of the ships crew isn't allowed to see. And that's all I have to say about that.
What is your opinion about their war capability?
Truthfully, after touring their ship extensively I would be very much surprised if the majority of their armament even successfully fired, let along hit anything.
How much of the poor conditions do you think can be attributed to poor funding/resources as opposed to the service not giving a ****?
90% of it was the service not giving a ****. Their wardroom (where the officers ate/hung out) was EXTREMELY nice, clean, well-decorated, had a fully-stocked bar with and nice oil pantings and other contemporary decor...but the rest of the ship was a complete and utter pigsty.
As a sailor....I'm so sorry sir! How the **** did you end up with such shitty orders though?
I bet a deployment on a big deck is looking mighty fine after this!
It's all good. I enjoyed 7th Fleet and my time on a FDNF DDG taught me a LOT. I'm not a SWO anymore (I lat transferred to IP - part of the IDC community) but I grew a lot as a person, and professionally, out in Yoko... I actually chose to go out there. I'd love to go back for shore duty, but I'd never go back to 7th Fleet for sea duty, ever.
That's a lot of acronyms. Any help for us rookies?
FDNF - Forward Deployed Naval Forces - this is how we refer to the US Navy's 7th Fleet, stationed in Yokosuka, Japan, because they are permanently forward deployed outside of the US.
DDG - The hull code for the kind of ship I was on - an Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer.
SWO - Surface Warfare Officer - what I used to be.
IP - Information Professional - what I am now (basically network security/networking management).
How did the Indian officers visiting U.S. ships react?
From what I remember, they sent a Chief Petty Officer (E-7) equivalent over to our ship, an engineering type. From what everybody back on my ship told me (after I got back, of course), they guy walked through our ship and engineering spaces and was amazed at how clean everything was and, ironically, that we had hot running water all day.
How good was the curry?
Pretty much all of their food was really good, but then again, I'm a big fan of Indian cuisine. They were all actually pretty surprised that I readily ate whatever they put in front of me. I ate the **** out of whatever they served my entire time there.
How did you wind up being on board the ship? How were you rescued?
Well, I wasn't stranded or anything, so there wasn't a "rescue" per se. Basically, whenever the US does any sort of multi-naval exercise with other nations, it is pretty common that we exchange a few people from each ship as sort of a naval-cultural exchange. In this case, I was sent from a US Navy destroyer based out of Japan to the INS Delhi - the Indian Navy's flagship as part of an exercise that took place last March.
As for how I got there, we did a fairly massive passenger exchange that consisted of about 5-6 ships pulling up in basically a big circle within about 500 yards of one another and then we all dropped our small boats in the water, exchanges passengers, and that was that. It was a particularly choppy day at sea and most of us were sufficiently soaked.
Holy crap, that was their FLAGSHIP?
They had a 2-star admiral embarked...lol.
I know nada about the Indian navy, but I thought their armed forces were pretty professional. Can you prove your identity?
http://i.imgur.com/AYdIZ.jpg
Describe some of the smells?
The ship generally smelled "old". I dunno if you have every been on a ship - namely a warship - before, but this one smelled like it was ******* from the inside out. Rust, decaying paint, dirty spaces, mechanical fumes...it generally smelled musty, I guess is the best way to describe it. Imagine if you farted in a vacuum and then immediately sealed the door, and then you opened said door 10 years later...that's what their ship smelled like pretty consistently.
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/ind ... .html#ixzz1zdBynns1
原始贴已经被删除了，似乎这么贴还是有喝茶的可能的
http://www.defence.pk/forums/ind ... ship-ins-delhi.html
Here is an interesting AMA from a US Naval Officer who spent 5 days on Indian Navy warship, INS Delhi. AMA means AskMeAnything where a person is asked questions which he answers.
IAmA US Naval Officer who spent 5 days onboard an Indian Navy warship, INS Delhi. AMA. : IAmA
I am posting questions and answers below. The US Navy officer is anonymous.
I see a lot of disappointments/shock in your comments. Were there any positives? Did they have good food?
Actually, their food was excellent. They also made really good tea, too. I drank nothing but hot milk tea my entire 5 days there because I was afraid of drinking the water (I saw their reverse osmosis units, dear god).
How bad was it?
15+ years old and they looked like nobody had done any maintenance in the last 5+ years. Their ROs were in such poor shape that despite having a greater fresh water production capacity than my ship by several thousand gallons, they were still on water hours.
How do they runs things differently then the USN?
Their engineering practices were abysmal. No undershirts, no steel-toed boots - they wore sandals - no hearing protection in their engineering spaces. No lagging (sound dampening material) in any space. No electrical safety whatsoever. No operational risk management. No concept of safety of navigation. Absolutely did not adhere to rules of the road. They more or less did not have any hard-copy written procedures for any exercise or event, at all. They had no concept of the coded fleet tactical system that US coalition forces and allies utilize (they literally made it up as they went along, and when I tried to interject and explain to them how it worked, they ignored me). When I arrived onboard they thought I was a midshipman and treated me as such. I had to be frank and explain that I was a commissioned officer and that yes, I stood officer on the deck onboard my ship and was a qualified surface warfare officer. They don't entrust their people with any responsibility until they are very senior Lieutenants (O-3s) and junior Lieutenant Commanders (O-4s). At this point in the US Navy there are literally guys commanding ships, and these guys couldn't even be trusted to handle a radio circuit.
How knowledgeable did you find the officers to be?
Well, their captain was driving the ship when it came within 50ft of the stern of a USNS replenishment ship and at any given time there were multiple officers on the bridge screaming at each other. They were generally clueless and had almost zero seamanship skills. I found their enlisted guys to be far more competent than their officers on the bridge.
Why do you think they're so incompetent and have such crappy operations?
Well, coming within 50ft of another ship at sea is never a good sign. But, afterwards, the general consensus/excuse that they came up with during their mini-debrief was "oh well, rough seas, better luck next time" not "holy ******* ****, we parted a tensioned wire cable made of braided steel under hundreds of thousands of pounds of tension".
And wearing sandals during replenishment/helo ops/boat ops/in engineering spaces pretty much says it all. They legitimately didn't understand why I was wearing steel-toed flight deck boots.
Things like these aren't cultural differences, they are golden exhibitions of their sheer lack of common sense and seamanship.
1. Are you breaking any US Navy rules by telling us all this?
2. How did they do in the exercise? Did they get "sunk" five times or what?
3. Were there equivalent Indian Navy personnel on a US Navy ship and do you happen to know their assessment? Were they disappointed by the lack of slaves?
4. Let's say **** hits the fan. India and Pakistan (or any other country. Take your pick) are at war and the ship you were on is sent into action. Would they be an effective fighting force or are they on the bottom of the ocean before the first day of shooting?
Great AMA btw!
1. I'm not breaking any rules in telling you this.
2. It wasn't a wargame-type exercise. It was basically one big five-day photo op.
3. I only have second-hand information about the Indian equivalent that came onboard my ship, but from what I understand he was impressed by the cleanliness of the ship and amazed that we had hot running water all day...
4. Truthfully - bottom of the ocean. I would be surprised if most of their gear worked. The stuff I saw (I got a pretty extensive tour) looked like it fell straight out of the 60s and 70s and I would be genuinely flabbergasted if they got any rounds off. They could barely avoid hitting other ships in the middle of the Pacific, I doubt they'd be popping off any rounds with any amount of accuracy.
I read 'Indian Navy' and I immediately pictured a ridiculously crowded boat, with everyone living(?) in squalor. Is that at all the case?
Actually, yes. Before I came onboard I was told to bring my own roll of toilet paper, if that alludes to the conditions that they live in at all. There was actually toilet paper aboard their ship. It was thinner than one-ply, if that's possible. I might as well have been wiping my *** with my bare hand.
After a particularly wet small boat ride over to their ship, I was dying to get out of my sea water-drenched uniform and into a fresh one (unfortunately, my entire bag was completely soaked to include my shirts, underwear, spare uniform, phone, camera, and my roll of toilet paper)...
I walked into their "officer's head" (their are extremely, extremely hierarchical and classist, even from a military standpoint) and there was a good 2" of ****-water sloshing around back and forth across the deck and an obscure, probably live wire with it's end wrapped in electrical tape non-surreptitiously protruding from the wall.
They have an entire "class" of civilians onboard. I still don't know what to make of them. I think they were some sort of cheap labor, but everybody onboard referred to them as slaves. As in, they used the word "slave". Anyways, the quarters those guys lived in was awful, it was basically a big open space partitioned with a sheet. They slept on a steel deck with a simple blanket and a pillow. Good times.
Their enlisted guys didn't have it much better. Their berthing was infested with rats (a guy from my ship swore up and down that he saw a rat that was no-**** the length of his arm) and another US sailor from another ship came back covered in bed-bug sores. Dude looked like he had ******* chicken pocks.
Awesome AMA so far. I'm former US navy as well, so I can appreciate your shock and dismay at their abysmal practices.
1. What was your single biggest 'are you ******* kidding me' moment?
2. What was your biggest priority when you got back to your ship?
3. At any point did you consider trying to assume OOD for your own safety?
4. Will anyone important listen to your assessment of their battle-readiness?
Thanks in advance!
1. Have you ever seen a US ship do an unrep at sea? When we pull along side and shoot the shotline across (basically a thick piece of yarn for those who don't know) there's a nice soft tennis ball affixed to the end of it so that it'll bounce of the deck and someone can go retrieve it... the Indians shot a spear. A motherfucking spear. Like, a 16" long piece of metal with a point on the end....
2. Biggest priority was showering. I hadn't showered properly in almost 5 days, and all of my uniforms reeked of seawater.
3. I wouldn't dare try and assume the deck like that. Even on a US ship that would be extremely, extremely out of line. On a foreign Navy ship? **** it, I can swim... Honestly though, when they passed under (50 feet from) the replenishment ship, I was generally afraid they were going to collide. 50ft at sea is extremely, extremely close. I had to leave the bridge after that ****, I just couldn't stomach it anymore.
4. And yes, I wrote up a full-debrief afterwards that was read by my CO/XO and presumably ISIC.
On an arbitrary scale from 1-10, 1 being full retard and ten being space marine quality training and efficiency, how would you rate their sailors quality?
3, at best. They had some marginally competent folks, but for every one person who was half-competent, there were 4 other guys just standing around looking clueless.
Why do you think this is? Are those guys not trained? Are their ships "overstaffed"?
I have staff in India and find that there is a tendency to do nothing when they are unsure of something, instead of coming to me and asking for an explanation.
They were great at doing the same things over and over again, but when I simply asked for an outcome and expected them to figure out HOW to do it, they were stumped.
Well, considering how undermanned US ships are at the moment (our CRUDES - crusiers/destroyers) are, on average, missing about 20-30 people give or take - destroyers more so.... I would say that it's a fault in their training, because they have more than enough people running around not doing anything of particular use.
And I agree. These guys were having issues breaking/generating a fairly widely used NATO standard fleet tactical code system that we use among allied nations and I was trying (in vain) to show them how to say what they wanted to say. I literally wrote out word for word what they needed to pass over the rt circuit and they still refused to believe that I was correct...and continued passing incomprehensible gibberish over the airwaves..
NROTC Midshipman here. I didn't know CRUDES were undermanned – why is that? Also, what rank are you? Ship? How do I not suck as an officer?
CRUDES are very undermanned. USS LASTSHIP (flight I DDG) was at 262 when I left. The ships were built for about 315. Cruisers weren't quite as bad, but they're still lacking people as well.
I'm a LTJG. Won't tell you what ship I was on, just know that it's a DDG out of Yoko.
As for how to not suck as an officer? LISTEN TO YOUR CHIEF, YOUR FIRST CLASS, AND YOUR ****-HOT SECOND CLASSES. Always trust your people until they give you a reason not to.
Thanks for the AMA. Did you or any other USNS staff point out these obvious failings to your counterparts? Or was it all just for show and you were basically told to endure.
Oh, the USNS released a full sitrep (situation report) afterwards. And I absolutely told my chain of command about all of this stuff. There is a very specific process that we go through upon returning from any foreign Navy ship. Basically, we sit down and chronicle our entire experience.
Do you think the Indian navy will take any of this advice to heart? DO they actually want to improve? Or will they just brush it off or even be offended that you are insulting their capabilities?
The latter. They pretty much wrote off every piece of advice that I humbly gave them in my time onboard.
Were there sensitive areas onboard the Indian ship you weren't allowed to enter? And vice versa, were the Indian exchange officers allowed to see the US ships in their entirety?
I saw some, but not all of their fire control spaces. I saw their "ops room" - basically their version of the Combat Information Center. However, I would guarantee that I didn't see everything that there was to see.
And no Ally really truly ever sees every space on a US ship. There are spaces on our ships that even 99% of the ships crew isn't allowed to see. And that's all I have to say about that.
What is your opinion about their war capability?
Truthfully, after touring their ship extensively I would be very much surprised if the majority of their armament even successfully fired, let along hit anything.
How much of the poor conditions do you think can be attributed to poor funding/resources as opposed to the service not giving a ****?
90% of it was the service not giving a ****. Their wardroom (where the officers ate/hung out) was EXTREMELY nice, clean, well-decorated, had a fully-stocked bar with and nice oil pantings and other contemporary decor...but the rest of the ship was a complete and utter pigsty.
As a sailor....I'm so sorry sir! How the **** did you end up with such shitty orders though?
I bet a deployment on a big deck is looking mighty fine after this!
It's all good. I enjoyed 7th Fleet and my time on a FDNF DDG taught me a LOT. I'm not a SWO anymore (I lat transferred to IP - part of the IDC community) but I grew a lot as a person, and professionally, out in Yoko... I actually chose to go out there. I'd love to go back for shore duty, but I'd never go back to 7th Fleet for sea duty, ever.
That's a lot of acronyms. Any help for us rookies?
FDNF - Forward Deployed Naval Forces - this is how we refer to the US Navy's 7th Fleet, stationed in Yokosuka, Japan, because they are permanently forward deployed outside of the US.
DDG - The hull code for the kind of ship I was on - an Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer.
SWO - Surface Warfare Officer - what I used to be.
IP - Information Professional - what I am now (basically network security/networking management).
How did the Indian officers visiting U.S. ships react?
From what I remember, they sent a Chief Petty Officer (E-7) equivalent over to our ship, an engineering type. From what everybody back on my ship told me (after I got back, of course), they guy walked through our ship and engineering spaces and was amazed at how clean everything was and, ironically, that we had hot running water all day.
How good was the curry?
Pretty much all of their food was really good, but then again, I'm a big fan of Indian cuisine. They were all actually pretty surprised that I readily ate whatever they put in front of me. I ate the **** out of whatever they served my entire time there.
How did you wind up being on board the ship? How were you rescued?
Well, I wasn't stranded or anything, so there wasn't a "rescue" per se. Basically, whenever the US does any sort of multi-naval exercise with other nations, it is pretty common that we exchange a few people from each ship as sort of a naval-cultural exchange. In this case, I was sent from a US Navy destroyer based out of Japan to the INS Delhi - the Indian Navy's flagship as part of an exercise that took place last March.
As for how I got there, we did a fairly massive passenger exchange that consisted of about 5-6 ships pulling up in basically a big circle within about 500 yards of one another and then we all dropped our small boats in the water, exchanges passengers, and that was that. It was a particularly choppy day at sea and most of us were sufficiently soaked.
Holy crap, that was their FLAGSHIP?
They had a 2-star admiral embarked...lol.
I know nada about the Indian navy, but I thought their armed forces were pretty professional. Can you prove your identity?
http://i.imgur.com/AYdIZ.jpg
Describe some of the smells?
The ship generally smelled "old". I dunno if you have every been on a ship - namely a warship - before, but this one smelled like it was ******* from the inside out. Rust, decaying paint, dirty spaces, mechanical fumes...it generally smelled musty, I guess is the best way to describe it. Imagine if you farted in a vacuum and then immediately sealed the door, and then you opened said door 10 years later...that's what their ship smelled like pretty consistently.
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/ind ... .html#ixzz1zdBynns1
标枪呢？标枪呢？