ZT RIO事件的分析

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/29 12:05:49
这话说得太过了。



此事压根与政治无关,以我当年在国内的工作经验来看,此事完全是rio自己玩火大了,把自己玩了进去。

来澳洲之前,我在国内工作了整整十年,其中半年是在大型国企,两年在外方全资企业。跟不同企业打过无数次交道,但无论站在国企角度,还是外资角度,行内很有几条重要的规矩就是,第一,尽量不做一锤子买卖,出尔反尔,哪怕有再大利益诱惑。第二,别过分得罪同行,别把事情做绝,不结仇,给自己留后路。第三,别把任何合作方当傻子,哪怕你刚刚赚了大便宜,也偷着乐去,别显摆。第四,大面上坚持原则,细节处别耍小聪明......

举个例子说吧,当时电力行业内有八家大型外资企业有投标资格标,公平竞争。事实上,很多项目在投标前,一些公司已经有了百分之九十以上拿下来的把握。但作为被邀请参与投标方,我所在的公司还是要去投标,我们自己叫陪标,做足公平竞争的把戏,而不是去揭发同行违规。为什么呢,因为说不定下次轮到我们的公关部门做得好,我们有了百分之九十的拿下把握,我们也需要同行来陪标,一起做戏给人看。这就是给自己留后路,虽然这些做看上去很无聊。

另外,当我们拿下一个标时,即便公关部门的工作已经做到位。签合同或者合同后,也要做适当的让步。使得甲方参与人员有立功的表现,以便他们向自己的上头交代。

还有,一些项目本来只能赚十个点,因为对方不懂行,或者因为是卖方市场,不小心赚了二十甚至四十个点。你也别得意,开庆功会偷着乐去,在甲方面前别得瑟。让甲方人员,即便他是傻子,回去也能有条活路。

还有一条就是,有些项目做亏了,或者赚头小了。既然合同签了,或者已经有了口头协议,就别想着在小地方再捞回来。那样做第一得罪人,第二会让甲方产生不信任感,损失行业内的名声。

而纵观rio在这两年的表现,可以说,把这几条商场守则全犯了,并且犯得肆无忌惮。

可以说,不但是rio,很多澳洲企业在这方面,做得都不如欧美企业。光想着法律许可范围之内合理冲撞,一次性赚足,从不考虑对方的处境和这样做的长期影响。

就拿rio和中铝合作为例。rio先答应了中铝的参股,从中铝套现救急,然后又借助澳洲这边办事拖拉的特点,为自己争取缓冲时间,最后再充分利用政治和法律因素毁约,既保全了自己的独立,又骗取了中铝的资金,单纯从商家角度而言,玩得非常高明,无懈可击。事后中铝再生气,也只能从道义上谴责,法律上找不出 rio任何漏洞。

但是,rio忘记了一点,所有交易都不是一锤子买卖,关键时刻给对方留余地就是给自己留后路。

我们来看看rio毁约之后的表现吧,先是在媒体上大肆宣扬,摆脱了**主义的魔爪。然后又来了个稀释股权,害得中铝不得不再追加是十几亿美金的投入,完全一副肆无忌惮嘴脸。令中铝从上到下,包括中国**部门很多为收购唱赞歌的,全都被抽了无数个嘴巴,鼻青脸肿。到了这个时候,仇恨已经结得非常大了。中铝如果不做任何反击,其相关责任人肯定再混不下去。

我们说,任何企业,国家,组织,都是由人来组成的。把人得罪光了,即便是对方是佛教徒,也难免出现几个做狮子吼的罗汉。而人一旦发起坏来,办法是无穷的。偏偏rio在树了遍地仇人的情况下,依旧毫无自觉,甚至变本加厉。

大伙再来看rio近期的表现。

通过与中国内地的小钢企达成协议,避开中钢协,满足自己最大利益需求。大批向中国港口运矿石,就地囤积,制造需求旺盛假象,逼迫中钢协在谈判中就范。这两条还不至于要命,最要命的一点是,把中钢协已经逼到绝路上,放话说,“我们也不坚持百分四十,但三大巨头必须在33%上有所松动”的前提下,依旧步步紧逼。其实中钢协最近那句话完全可以解读为,“老大,算你狠。给我点折扣,让我跟上边有个交代吧,哪怕是0.1%也成,求你了.......”,可是 rio等偏偏装听不见。

其实,33%也好,40%也罢,中钢协谈判组从中没一点提成可拿。他们只需要rio这边有所松动,让他们跟上头和国内舆论有个交代。如果连续两年毫无建树,他们这个组织就没存在的必要,多少人的前程和饭碗就全毁了。但rio不明白啊,一再把人往绝路上逼。既然这样,中钢协和先前被rio得罪的人,也就没路可退了。

反击的办法很简单,事实上,在中国目前的商业环境下,超过五十万美元的大项目,如果说没有一点公关投入,或没有什么买通关键人物套取“标底”这些手段,简直是不可能的。而这些潜在手段虽然存在,**也懒得认真去抓,却不意味着它们合法。一旦有人举报,而业内人员又生了同仇敌忾之心,则一抓一个准。

所以,rio那四个人进去,也就是必然的了。并且证据确凿。

这里我还可以做一个推测,陆克文**和rio本身不声不响,准备息事宁人,此事还相对好解决。如果澳洲媒体和**都像谭保先生这般上蹿下跳,rio将吃更大的亏。届时,只要经办此事的上海国安把证据如实发给媒体,无论从公关费用数额和公关手法上来看,都是毫无疑问的行贿和窃密罪。如果换成澳洲的法律,可能罪责更重。毕竟澳洲这边,对行贿和商业窃密容忍度更小,几乎是零容忍。

所以澳洲这边的公司如果聪明,就想办法大事化小,小事化无,就按秦刚说的,个案处理。如果非闹到国家跟国家角度,恐怕rio彻底退出中国市场的日子就为期不远了。由于执法权限问题,中国那边拿这些铁矿石公司没辄,但对付那些囤积居奇的当地商人,办法有的是。7000万吨铁矿石的囤积数额,足够中国一年不进口。三大公司联手给中国挖的陷阱,到头来可能完全把自己栽进去。这话说得太过了。



此事压根与政治无关,以我当年在国内的工作经验来看,此事完全是rio自己玩火大了,把自己玩了进去。

来澳洲之前,我在国内工作了整整十年,其中半年是在大型国企,两年在外方全资企业。跟不同企业打过无数次交道,但无论站在国企角度,还是外资角度,行内很有几条重要的规矩就是,第一,尽量不做一锤子买卖,出尔反尔,哪怕有再大利益诱惑。第二,别过分得罪同行,别把事情做绝,不结仇,给自己留后路。第三,别把任何合作方当傻子,哪怕你刚刚赚了大便宜,也偷着乐去,别显摆。第四,大面上坚持原则,细节处别耍小聪明......

举个例子说吧,当时电力行业内有八家大型外资企业有投标资格标,公平竞争。事实上,很多项目在投标前,一些公司已经有了百分之九十以上拿下来的把握。但作为被邀请参与投标方,我所在的公司还是要去投标,我们自己叫陪标,做足公平竞争的把戏,而不是去揭发同行违规。为什么呢,因为说不定下次轮到我们的公关部门做得好,我们有了百分之九十的拿下把握,我们也需要同行来陪标,一起做戏给人看。这就是给自己留后路,虽然这些做看上去很无聊。

另外,当我们拿下一个标时,即便公关部门的工作已经做到位。签合同或者合同后,也要做适当的让步。使得甲方参与人员有立功的表现,以便他们向自己的上头交代。

还有,一些项目本来只能赚十个点,因为对方不懂行,或者因为是卖方市场,不小心赚了二十甚至四十个点。你也别得意,开庆功会偷着乐去,在甲方面前别得瑟。让甲方人员,即便他是傻子,回去也能有条活路。

还有一条就是,有些项目做亏了,或者赚头小了。既然合同签了,或者已经有了口头协议,就别想着在小地方再捞回来。那样做第一得罪人,第二会让甲方产生不信任感,损失行业内的名声。

而纵观rio在这两年的表现,可以说,把这几条商场守则全犯了,并且犯得肆无忌惮。

可以说,不但是rio,很多澳洲企业在这方面,做得都不如欧美企业。光想着法律许可范围之内合理冲撞,一次性赚足,从不考虑对方的处境和这样做的长期影响。

就拿rio和中铝合作为例。rio先答应了中铝的参股,从中铝套现救急,然后又借助澳洲这边办事拖拉的特点,为自己争取缓冲时间,最后再充分利用政治和法律因素毁约,既保全了自己的独立,又骗取了中铝的资金,单纯从商家角度而言,玩得非常高明,无懈可击。事后中铝再生气,也只能从道义上谴责,法律上找不出 rio任何漏洞。

但是,rio忘记了一点,所有交易都不是一锤子买卖,关键时刻给对方留余地就是给自己留后路。

我们来看看rio毁约之后的表现吧,先是在媒体上大肆宣扬,摆脱了**主义的魔爪。然后又来了个稀释股权,害得中铝不得不再追加是十几亿美金的投入,完全一副肆无忌惮嘴脸。令中铝从上到下,包括中国**部门很多为收购唱赞歌的,全都被抽了无数个嘴巴,鼻青脸肿。到了这个时候,仇恨已经结得非常大了。中铝如果不做任何反击,其相关责任人肯定再混不下去。

我们说,任何企业,国家,组织,都是由人来组成的。把人得罪光了,即便是对方是佛教徒,也难免出现几个做狮子吼的罗汉。而人一旦发起坏来,办法是无穷的。偏偏rio在树了遍地仇人的情况下,依旧毫无自觉,甚至变本加厉。

大伙再来看rio近期的表现。

通过与中国内地的小钢企达成协议,避开中钢协,满足自己最大利益需求。大批向中国港口运矿石,就地囤积,制造需求旺盛假象,逼迫中钢协在谈判中就范。这两条还不至于要命,最要命的一点是,把中钢协已经逼到绝路上,放话说,“我们也不坚持百分四十,但三大巨头必须在33%上有所松动”的前提下,依旧步步紧逼。其实中钢协最近那句话完全可以解读为,“老大,算你狠。给我点折扣,让我跟上边有个交代吧,哪怕是0.1%也成,求你了.......”,可是 rio等偏偏装听不见。

其实,33%也好,40%也罢,中钢协谈判组从中没一点提成可拿。他们只需要rio这边有所松动,让他们跟上头和国内舆论有个交代。如果连续两年毫无建树,他们这个组织就没存在的必要,多少人的前程和饭碗就全毁了。但rio不明白啊,一再把人往绝路上逼。既然这样,中钢协和先前被rio得罪的人,也就没路可退了。

反击的办法很简单,事实上,在中国目前的商业环境下,超过五十万美元的大项目,如果说没有一点公关投入,或没有什么买通关键人物套取“标底”这些手段,简直是不可能的。而这些潜在手段虽然存在,**也懒得认真去抓,却不意味着它们合法。一旦有人举报,而业内人员又生了同仇敌忾之心,则一抓一个准。

所以,rio那四个人进去,也就是必然的了。并且证据确凿。

这里我还可以做一个推测,陆克文**和rio本身不声不响,准备息事宁人,此事还相对好解决。如果澳洲媒体和**都像谭保先生这般上蹿下跳,rio将吃更大的亏。届时,只要经办此事的上海国安把证据如实发给媒体,无论从公关费用数额和公关手法上来看,都是毫无疑问的行贿和窃密罪。如果换成澳洲的法律,可能罪责更重。毕竟澳洲这边,对行贿和商业窃密容忍度更小,几乎是零容忍。

所以澳洲这边的公司如果聪明,就想办法大事化小,小事化无,就按秦刚说的,个案处理。如果非闹到国家跟国家角度,恐怕rio彻底退出中国市场的日子就为期不远了。由于执法权限问题,中国那边拿这些铁矿石公司没辄,但对付那些囤积居奇的当地商人,办法有的是。7000万吨铁矿石的囤积数额,足够中国一年不进口。三大公司联手给中国挖的陷阱,到头来可能完全把自己栽进去。
这篇文章其实也解释了Turnbull为什么上窜下跳了……身为反对党党魁,最近又在购车事件上栽了跟头,往陆克文身上泼脏水不成反而弄得自己一身龌龊,再不叫唤两声,饭碗肯定要被砸掉DI
haartman0083 发表于 2009-7-10 22:26
如果是这样的话,澳洲国家的长期利益就完了。
文章有点意思
澳大利亚是个没有前途的国家 她甚至还没年轻过就苍老了
同意5楼的发言,澳大利亚是个BYD。
中国式个讲面子的国家,不给人家面子的结果就是下次被人拍脸
的确三大矿商过分追求利益最大化已经达到无耻的地步.在中国做生意,你给人面子你才能多赚钱.
有点意思
duanjichenggong 发表于 2009-7-10 23:22
BYD =? 比亚迪??
人不犯我,我不犯人;人若犯我,我必犯人![:a16:]
中铝的对力拓的收购案数额巨大,绝对是最高层首肯的,后来力拓变卦等于公开羞辱中国,这不仅仅是中钢协和中铝的问题。除了美国,中国还没有受一家公司讹诈的历史。碍于中铝的收购案不好动手,现在力拓自己送上门,那就对不起了。
贪婪
本来两人都谈婚论嫁了的,结果被老太太棒打了鸳鸯,这时候力拓就算没有说什么非君莫嫁、私奔之类的,好歹也发张好人卡,大家还能做朋友,结果却大肆宣扬癞蛤蟆想吃天鹅肉,还要青春赔偿费
澳洲人,都是罪犯的后代,还讲什么信用!
想钱想疯了,没留后路


Industrial espionage China style and the iron ore sector

Some questions and answers relating to China's detention of Rio Tinto iron ore sector employees on industrial espionage charges.
Author: Lucy Hornby
Posted:  Thursday , 09 Jul 2009

BEIJING (Reuters) -  Four Shanghai-based employees of global mining firm Rio Tinto were criminally detained this week on charges of stealing state secrets.
The case has rattled the Australian dollar, and points to the risks for foreigners of doing business in China, a country run by a single party with no independent judiciary.

WHAT HAPPENED?

Stern Hu, Rio's head of iron ore marketing in China, and three other members of the iron ore team were detained over the weekend for "stealing state secrets".
An iron ore executive from China's eighth-largest mill, Shougang, was also taken into custody, Chinese media reported. Iron ore executives from other large Chinese mills are also rumoured to be in custody.
The arrests came as a Shanghai paper reported Chinese steel mills had given in on annual iron ore prices, agreeing to the same 33 percent cut other Asian steelmakers set earlier.
That capitulation would be a loss of face for the state-backed Chinese Iron and Steel Association, which had vowed to the central government it could achieve a deeper discount.
However, both Chinese and Rio Tinto officials have denied an agreement was reached.

WHAT ROLE DOES RIO'S CHINA TEAM PLAY?

Rio Tinto's annual iron ore price negotiations with all Asian steel makers, including those in China, are headed up by a team based in Singapore.
Traditionally, all steel mills accept whatever deal is first settled between any mill and any of the big three miners, Rio, BHP Billiton and Vale. This year, the Japanese and Korean mills have already settled.
The China team is responsible for carrying out the operational details of term contracts. They might also negotiate new term contacts and the desired volume with term clients.
The miners rely on their China-based team for predictions of China's future iron ore demand and steel capacity, as well as for information about the current market.

WHAT IS A STATE SECRET?

It's a secret.

Chinese law is vague on what constitutes a secret, and the charge has been variously applied to academics, executives, journalists and dissidents.
Economic data, particularly involving gold holdings, currency movements, and key economic indicators, have at different times been deemed state secrets as have more traditional matters involving the military or movements by China's top leaders.

WHAT MIGHT BE THE LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES?

The episode has put the steel industry, which relies on open market information for trading and pricing, in an "ice box", said one Chinese iron ore industry analyst.
"Right now everyone in the industry is afraid. No-one really knows if it's for commercial reasons, or something else," he said, declining to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the case.
The developments highlight the risks to foreign companies, who increasingly rely on mainland-born Chinese with foreign citizenship to run their China operations. "Returned Chinese" are far more vulnerable than foreigners to Chinese charges of spying.

(Reporting by Lucy Hornby; Editing by Jerry Norton)
© Thomson Reuters 2009. All rights reserved.

Industrial espionage China style and the iron ore sector

Some questions and answers relating to China's detention of Rio Tinto iron ore sector employees on industrial espionage charges.
Author: Lucy Hornby
Posted:  Thursday , 09 Jul 2009

BEIJING (Reuters) -  Four Shanghai-based employees of global mining firm Rio Tinto were criminally detained this week on charges of stealing state secrets.
The case has rattled the Australian dollar, and points to the risks for foreigners of doing business in China, a country run by a single party with no independent judiciary.

WHAT HAPPENED?

Stern Hu, Rio's head of iron ore marketing in China, and three other members of the iron ore team were detained over the weekend for "stealing state secrets".
An iron ore executive from China's eighth-largest mill, Shougang, was also taken into custody, Chinese media reported. Iron ore executives from other large Chinese mills are also rumoured to be in custody.
The arrests came as a Shanghai paper reported Chinese steel mills had given in on annual iron ore prices, agreeing to the same 33 percent cut other Asian steelmakers set earlier.
That capitulation would be a loss of face for the state-backed Chinese Iron and Steel Association, which had vowed to the central government it could achieve a deeper discount.
However, both Chinese and Rio Tinto officials have denied an agreement was reached.

WHAT ROLE DOES RIO'S CHINA TEAM PLAY?

Rio Tinto's annual iron ore price negotiations with all Asian steel makers, including those in China, are headed up by a team based in Singapore.
Traditionally, all steel mills accept whatever deal is first settled between any mill and any of the big three miners, Rio, BHP Billiton and Vale. This year, the Japanese and Korean mills have already settled.
The China team is responsible for carrying out the operational details of term contracts. They might also negotiate new term contacts and the desired volume with term clients.
The miners rely on their China-based team for predictions of China's future iron ore demand and steel capacity, as well as for information about the current market.

WHAT IS A STATE SECRET?

It's a secret.

Chinese law is vague on what constitutes a secret, and the charge has been variously applied to academics, executives, journalists and dissidents.
Economic data, particularly involving gold holdings, currency movements, and key economic indicators, have at different times been deemed state secrets as have more traditional matters involving the military or movements by China's top leaders.

WHAT MIGHT BE THE LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES?

The episode has put the steel industry, which relies on open market information for trading and pricing, in an "ice box", said one Chinese iron ore industry analyst.
"Right now everyone in the industry is afraid. No-one really knows if it's for commercial reasons, or something else," he said, declining to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the case.
The developments highlight the risks to foreign companies, who increasingly rely on mainland-born Chinese with foreign citizenship to run their China operations. "Returned Chinese" are far more vulnerable than foreigners to Chinese charges of spying.

(Reporting by Lucy Hornby; Editing by Jerry Norton)
© Thomson Reuters 2009. All rights reserved.
确实够无耻的
是该给他们点厉害看看, 不能一味的退缩.
:o领教了
楼主说的有道理。不过中钢协的无能也不是一年两年了。
124wwc 发表于 2009-7-11 13:27
同感啊!tg啊!
不知道高层目前到底底线是什么。
这次是有点撕破脸干的意思了。
问题的根源就是无论我们怎么表现,别人就是看不起我们这样的暴发户!
什么国际化、市场协议制度都是装B扯鸡巴蛋!不给点颜色瞧瞧,只怕将来会吃人!
若换成MD试试,估计被强奸都会喊爽!
力拓知道的太多了,尤其通过搜集情报知道了不该知道的秘密,激怒了中国政府。
过于看重眼前利益
楼主说的有道理
楼主是不是你的原创哟,分析的挺不错的