超级军网老美关于J10和F16的看法
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这是美国一个论坛上的人关于J10和F16的看法,各位有什么想法?
LM Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 10:09 AM
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FixinAViper Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 11:17 AM
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fireball Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 04:18 PM
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Status: Offline Are you serious?! F-16's are the sh*t! they are dependable, accurate and maneuverable, also hard to see. There are very few aircraft in the world that can do what F-16s do.
I heard once in the 80's that Mohamar Khadafi wanted just one F-16!
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Loader2088 Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 09:11 PM
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Status: Offline Seriously, the Chinese seem to have gotten some help from the Israelis on this jet, which looks a lot like their aborted Lavi. I hope the Israelis didn't give them too much help with this project, since they surely know how important the US is to their existence.
I think we can assume the J-10 flown by a competent pilot would be a fair match for a F-16. Opponents of the F-22 always say we don't really need it because nobody can truly challenge us, but the J-10 is a perfect example of why we can't continue to base our security on legacy fighters forever.
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SnakeHandler Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 12:53 AM
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The J-10 is an attempt to copy the Eurofighter Typhoon. We figured out that the delta wasn't the way to go back in the 70s. That's fine though, if we ever have to fight China I'd rather have the poor bastards flying those things die for their country.
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VarkVet Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 01:02 AM
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My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline这是美国一个论坛上的人关于J10和F16的看法,各位有什么想法?
LM Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 10:09 AM
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Status: Online! Do you think F-16 have any superiority to Chinese latest J10?
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FixinAViper Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 11:17 AM
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fireball Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 04:18 PM
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Status: Offline Are you serious?! F-16's are the sh*t! they are dependable, accurate and maneuverable, also hard to see. There are very few aircraft in the world that can do what F-16s do.
I heard once in the 80's that Mohamar Khadafi wanted just one F-16!
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Loader2088 Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 09:11 PM
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Status: Offline Seriously, the Chinese seem to have gotten some help from the Israelis on this jet, which looks a lot like their aborted Lavi. I hope the Israelis didn't give them too much help with this project, since they surely know how important the US is to their existence.
I think we can assume the J-10 flown by a competent pilot would be a fair match for a F-16. Opponents of the F-22 always say we don't really need it because nobody can truly challenge us, but the J-10 is a perfect example of why we can't continue to base our security on legacy fighters forever.
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SnakeHandler Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 12:53 AM
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The J-10 is an attempt to copy the Eurofighter Typhoon. We figured out that the delta wasn't the way to go back in the 70s. That's fine though, if we ever have to fight China I'd rather have the poor bastards flying those things die for their country.
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VarkVet Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 01:02 AM
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My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline
LM Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 10:09 AM
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FixinAViper Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 11:17 AM
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fireball Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 04:18 PM
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Status: Offline Are you serious?! F-16's are the sh*t! they are dependable, accurate and maneuverable, also hard to see. There are very few aircraft in the world that can do what F-16s do.
I heard once in the 80's that Mohamar Khadafi wanted just one F-16!
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Loader2088 Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 09:11 PM
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Status: Offline Seriously, the Chinese seem to have gotten some help from the Israelis on this jet, which looks a lot like their aborted Lavi. I hope the Israelis didn't give them too much help with this project, since they surely know how important the US is to their existence.
I think we can assume the J-10 flown by a competent pilot would be a fair match for a F-16. Opponents of the F-22 always say we don't really need it because nobody can truly challenge us, but the J-10 is a perfect example of why we can't continue to base our security on legacy fighters forever.
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SnakeHandler Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 12:53 AM
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The J-10 is an attempt to copy the Eurofighter Typhoon. We figured out that the delta wasn't the way to go back in the 70s. That's fine though, if we ever have to fight China I'd rather have the poor bastards flying those things die for their country.
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VarkVet Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 01:02 AM
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My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline这是美国一个论坛上的人关于J10和F16的看法,各位有什么想法?
LM Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 10:09 AM
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Status: Online! Do you think F-16 have any superiority to Chinese latest J10?
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FixinAViper Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 11:17 AM
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fireball Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 04:18 PM
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Status: Offline Are you serious?! F-16's are the sh*t! they are dependable, accurate and maneuverable, also hard to see. There are very few aircraft in the world that can do what F-16s do.
I heard once in the 80's that Mohamar Khadafi wanted just one F-16!
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Loader2088 Posted: Sep 29, 2007 - 09:11 PM
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Status: Offline Seriously, the Chinese seem to have gotten some help from the Israelis on this jet, which looks a lot like their aborted Lavi. I hope the Israelis didn't give them too much help with this project, since they surely know how important the US is to their existence.
I think we can assume the J-10 flown by a competent pilot would be a fair match for a F-16. Opponents of the F-22 always say we don't really need it because nobody can truly challenge us, but the J-10 is a perfect example of why we can't continue to base our security on legacy fighters forever.
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SnakeHandler Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 12:53 AM
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The J-10 is an attempt to copy the Eurofighter Typhoon. We figured out that the delta wasn't the way to go back in the 70s. That's fine though, if we ever have to fight China I'd rather have the poor bastards flying those things die for their country.
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VarkVet Posted: Sep 30, 2007 - 01:02 AM
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My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline
中国以外的大部分国家都没把Ｊ１０当回事，这点可以从Ｊ１０投产以后，Ｆ１６更加好卖和价格疯涨可以看出来，Ｊ１０在大多数有购买力的国家眼里，显然没有构成对Ｆ１６的竞争力，因为如果有竞争产品上市，通常主流产品都会降价。
你买得到歼十吗？
Ｊ１０在很长一段时间是不会卖的:D
楼主你去的是F16论坛呀:D
J-10和F-16间的性能差距和军售情况没有直接联系，起决定性作用的是政治关系。
能去的有料的军坛也就这几个了，国内封得TNND凶。
The J-10 is an attempt to copy the Eurofighter Typhoon
歼10这么又拷贝台风了？;funk
歼10这么又拷贝台风了？;funk
所以国外论坛也有小白啊,歼十的鸭翼是与众不同的.
去F16网建议大家去F16 versus XYZ这个版块，因为里面有不少准第一手资料有关各国三代与三代半性能与PK结果，有参与过这些飞机设计的、有飞过这些飞机参加PK的飞行员、有与飞行员面对面交流过的军迷。
耐着性子看下来也许会颠覆一些人心目中的一些传统看法。
耐着性子看下来也许会颠覆一些人心目中的一些传统看法。
好，去碌碌:D
原帖由 aaasssaaa 于 2007-9-30 10:43 发表
去F16网建议大家去F16 versus XYZ这个版块，因为里面有不少准第一手资料有关各国三代与三代半性能与PK结果，有参与过这些飞机设计的、有飞过这些飞机参加PK的飞行员、有与飞行员面对面交流过的军迷。
耐着性 ...
给个链接好不？
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewforum-f-30.html
那里有关中国的讨论都不太靠谱，鬼佬对中国的东西还是了解得太少啊。:Q
那里有关中国的讨论都不太靠谱，鬼佬对中国的东西还是了解得太少啊。:Q
去溜了一小圈，看了个ＪＦ１７和Ｊ１０的贴子。
里面一个坐进去过ＪＦ１７第一个原型机的飞行员说它的座舱非常地impressive（让人印象深刻），转弯率好于Ｆ１６，但因为推重比的原因，垂直座标系的机动性可能不如。连老美都承认ＦＣ１带上ＳＤ１０可以压制Ｆ１６的ＢＬＯＣＫ４０以前的机子，达到了ＢＬＯＣＫ５０的７０％的作战能力。
对Ｊ１０是恨之入骨:b
原来北约标准，一个飞行员一年要飞１８０小时才能算是combat ready
里面一个坐进去过ＪＦ１７第一个原型机的飞行员说它的座舱非常地impressive（让人印象深刻），转弯率好于Ｆ１６，但因为推重比的原因，垂直座标系的机动性可能不如。连老美都承认ＦＣ１带上ＳＤ１０可以压制Ｆ１６的ＢＬＯＣＫ４０以前的机子，达到了ＢＬＯＣＫ５０的７０％的作战能力。
对Ｊ１０是恨之入骨:b
原来北约标准，一个飞行员一年要飞１８０小时才能算是combat ready
]]
老美还说ＦＣ１的敏捷性是这一级别最好的，ＬＣＡ的性能甚至未达到米格２３的水平，还不值一提。这一级别是不是还包括某北欧战机？:b
又一個胡說八道的小鬼!賣飛機靠的是國際關係,中國的客戶群跟美國的客戶群壁壘分明,
J10跟F16的市場根本不會重疊,就像前蘇聯跟美國的客戶群一樣,反而說殲10出來後,F16價格上漲,
這正表明了美國的傳統客戶群會為了有新的威脅出現,願意付更高的代價來買F16,就像台灣!
J10跟F16的市場根本不會重疊,就像前蘇聯跟美國的客戶群一樣,反而說殲10出來後,F16價格上漲,
這正表明了美國的傳統客戶群會為了有新的威脅出現,願意付更高的代價來買F16,就像台灣!
这样理解才是正确滴~:D 支持jackg
打了预防针还有人信啊。:lol
看F-16与西方战机PK的帖子会比较有意思，如那个PK鹰狮机的帖子就有军迷说他问的瑞典鹰狮飞行员说鹰狮在与16的格斗中赢了大部分，打F-18更是从BVR到格斗全胜。;P
看F-16与西方战机PK的帖子会比较有意思，如那个PK鹰狮机的帖子就有军迷说他问的瑞典鹰狮飞行员说鹰狮在与16的格斗中赢了大部分，打F-18更是从BVR到格斗全胜。;P
匆匆乱看了一遍鹰狮的贴。瞬盘超过Ｆ１６，稳盘不如，水平加速比Ｆ１６快，各有优势区，Ｆ１６不适合小国独立作战。维护工时少，不能使用ＡＩＭ９Ｘ，只能使用ＡＩＭ９Ｍ，使得那个很先进的红外瞄准系统形同虚设。可以使用对舰导弹。对Ｆ１６好象是５０：５０
ＦＣ１那个贴说老巴用它来对付幻影２０００，放在二线机场，主力还是Ｆ１６。还有就是Ｊ７的维护是个恶梦(nightmare)（歼七维护起来真是这么难吗？）。
ＦＣ１那个贴说老巴用它来对付幻影２０００，放在二线机场，主力还是Ｆ１６。还有就是Ｊ７的维护是个恶梦(nightmare)（歼七维护起来真是这么难吗？）。
听PUPU说的歼－７，苏－２７，歼－１０这三者的可维护性是存在代差的
你说Ｊ７的维护是恶梦不？;P
你说Ｊ７的维护是恶梦不？;P
但在某论坛某贴说，八一飞行表演队没用歼十其中一个原因是歼十维护工时太多，而且比如机翼是整体成形，一旦损坏得整个换掉，成本太高，不象歼七可以找人焊补一下
TG的原则是新装备优先提供一线部队，差不多了再给飞行队～～
原帖由 gzgeek 于 2007-9-30 16:39 发表
匆匆乱看了一遍鹰狮的贴。瞬盘超过Ｆ１６，稳盘不如，水平加速比Ｆ１６快，各有优势区，Ｆ１６不适合小国独立作战。维护工时少，不能使用ＡＩＭ９Ｘ，只能使用ＡＩＭ９Ｍ，使得那个很先进的红外瞄准系统形同虚设 ...
鹰狮要是加速能快过f-16我马上把键盘吃了:D
演习结果不能只听挪威佬一个人说的，开16mlu的普遍认为mlu靠推比能压倒鹰狮:D
要是鹰狮能加速比16块，那就能比mig-29,EAP和阵风都快......谁信啊;P
鹰狮自己的飞行员也承认鹰狮爬升爬不过F-16，所以加速的确不应该比F-16快。
那个认为的也就是张嘴就说而已。
那个认为的也就是张嘴就说而已。
美国军迷白痴也很多的，居然有人说J-10只有装了SD-10才有BVR能力，可见其水平如何。
不过还是不能掉以轻心那，这些人只是美国的小白，真正研究中国的那些家伙水平可高多了。
不过还是不能掉以轻心那，这些人只是美国的小白，真正研究中国的那些家伙水平可高多了。
原帖由 gzgeek 于 2007-9-30 17:34 发表
但在某论坛某贴说，八一飞行表演队没用歼十其中一个原因是歼十维护工时太多，而且比如机翼是整体成形，一旦损坏得整个换掉，成本太高，不象歼七可以找人焊补一下
多学习一下对你没有坏处
我知道说太多话对自己没好处。
有料的不妨漏点啊:D
有料的不妨漏点啊:D
原帖由 Carfey_cnm 于 2007-9-30 23:47 发表
美国军迷白痴也很多的，居然有人说J-10只有装了SD-10才有BVR能力，可见其水平如何。
不过还是不能掉以轻心那，这些人只是美国的小白，真正研究中国的那些家伙水平可高多了。
美国军迷不了解中国并不奇怪，中国军迷敢说了解中国的恐怕也不太多，用这个来衡量他们水平也不妥当，有关外军水平他们的发言还是比较靠谱的，毕竟他们了解的渠道很多。所以我才说F-16网上有关中国的讨论不必太当真，如果真想听海外看中国的观点，不如去小巴的论坛。
我认为J-10在未来五年之内,都不会有国外市场,问题没有出在J-10身上,而是主要政治因素在起决定作用,中国人最怕的就是把J-10现在买出去之后,很难说购买国,会不会背地里把J-10的秘密透漏给美国.这个可能性很大,现在的世界是利欲诱惑很大啊!唯一的特例可能只有"巴基斯坦模式"
至于F-16,它什么时候都买的很好!机种成熟,市场操作灵活性,飞机本身的可扩展性都很成熟,再加上美国的政治,军事影响力都对它有很强的促销能力,至于其它所有战斗机要论这些因素都不如F-16有竞争力! 呵呵! 在F-16眼里,其它战机能卖成啥样还是啥样.世界战斗机市场是考虑综合效费比.你比F-16好,也不好使.
至于F-16,它什么时候都买的很好!机种成熟,市场操作灵活性,飞机本身的可扩展性都很成熟,再加上美国的政治,军事影响力都对它有很强的促销能力,至于其它所有战斗机要论这些因素都不如F-16有竞争力! 呵呵! 在F-16眼里,其它战机能卖成啥样还是啥样.世界战斗机市场是考虑综合效费比.你比F-16好,也不好使.
TG的军事装备的透明度,对国内的人来说,也是丈二和尚摸不着头脑哦~~~~~~~~~
其实看爆料，不如去看什么《亚洲防卫周刊》之类的，那里经常有ＴＧ的东西爆，而且是国内看不到的，国内所谓的保密也只是对内不对外而已，如果老美台湾人想知道些情况，收买个把系统内的人，甚至飞行员不就都知道了，然后他们再共享一下资源。
看不懂呀，哪位先生翻译下子？
gzgeek是不是认为FC比J10强很多;P
原帖由 gzgeek 于 2007-10-1 10:49 发表
其实看爆料，不如去看什么《亚洲防卫周刊》之类的，那里经常有ＴＧ的东西爆，而且是国内看不到的，国内所谓的保密也只是对内不对外而已，如果老美台湾人想知道些情况，收买个把系统内的人，甚至飞行员不就都知道 ...
这个杂志哪里有卖，使中文版还是英文版？谢谢。
回ryanzhen：很多图书馆有借的，英文版（好象是马亚西亚出的）。
回兽医：不知道
回兽医：不知道
原帖由 gzgeek 于 2007-9-30 09:09 发表
中国以外的大部分国家都没把Ｊ１０当回事，这点可以从Ｊ１０投产以后，Ｆ１６更加好卖和价格疯涨可以看出来，Ｊ１０在大多数有购买力的国家眼里，显然没有构成对Ｆ１６的竞争力，因为如果有竞争产品上市，通常主 ...
你还不如说J10的巨大威胁让F16更好卖
机翼是整体成形，一旦损坏得整个换掉，成本太高，不象歼七可以找人焊补一下
哪里的消息？还是仅仅是你的信口开河？
哪里的消息？还是仅仅是你的信口开河？
好几个论坛都有贴Ｄ，原话好象不是这样，意思好象是机翼和机身结合的那个地方，具体咱不懂啦。
Ｊ１０要这么好，小巴子还干嘛口水人家的Ｆ１６，那东西连美国自己都已经不再买了。但也可以这么说，也许ＴＧ的水平已经达到可以威胁Ｆ１６，米国人再买新的已经没意义，米国人称Ｆ１５／１６在现在的眼光来看，就象古董美国肌肉车
Ｊ１０要这么好，小巴子还干嘛口水人家的Ｆ１６，那东西连美国自己都已经不再买了。但也可以这么说，也许ＴＧ的水平已经达到可以威胁Ｆ１６，米国人再买新的已经没意义，米国人称Ｆ１５／１６在现在的眼光来看，就象古董美国肌肉车