毛子外贸弹药最好的是什么型号探究(印度版)

之前跟其他人撕毛子出口弹药问题,

争论印度T90到底有没有能力击穿96/哈利德

所以特意去印度国防部网站搜索了一圈,

发现了一份10年的印度军方为T72和T90寻求弹药收购和技术转让进行国产的招标文件,


来源地址http://indianarmy.gov.in/

因为这个网站没办法直接贴链接跳转到目标页,所以只给出了主页,

进入后搜索

RFI for procurement of FSAPDS Amn for Tanks T-72 and T-90(Indian Equivalent of AMK-339)

或者FSAPDS即可,(搜索栏没法点的话切换输入法,还不行随便点进去个链接在下级网页上就能搜索了)


原文如下

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR
PROCUREMENT OF FSAPDS AMN FOR TANKS T-72 AND T-90
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-339)
求购等效于印度编号AMK339用于T72和T90的FSAPDS弹药

1. Indian Army is looking for high quality 125 mm FSAPDS amn for
in-service Tk T-72 and Tk T -90. MGO’s Branch Integrated HQ of the
MoD(Army) requests urgent information from reputed Original Equipment      
Manufacturers (OEM) of amn for supply of good quality amn for Tk T-72
and T -90 to be used by the Indian Army.
2. Initial requirement may be approximately 75,000 to 1,00,000 to be
supplied within 12 – 18 months of signing of contract. Broad tentative
specifications for the amn is enclosed. Firms are requested to forward
comprehensive details of their product meeting the broad specifications
enclosed.

这段大致上是采购数量和交付时间,

3. Interested parties with annual turn-over of not less than Rs.100 crore
should clearly mention their ability to deliver a product as per these broad
specifications.
4. Please also furnish the following details:-
(a) Proof of being Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).
(b) Technical literature of the amn.
(c) Test methods for checking of quality parameters.
(d) Product range.
(e) Annual turn over of last three years (i.e for 2007-08, 2008-09 &
2009-10) with past experience in the field.
要求提供过去三年的制造经验
(f) Annual production capacity for last two years viz 2008-09 &
2009-10
要求提供过去两年的产能数据
(g) Details of supplies to Defence Forces of other countries on
successful completion of large orders previously undertaken.
要求提供已完成的其他国家同类型订单数据
(h) Willingness to offer amn for technical evaluation in India prior to
signing of contract.
(j) Willingness for Transfer of Technology (TOT) to Indian vendor
for indigenous production in the country.
愿意提供技术转让以支持印度自产
(k) The TOT may be obtained as part of the contract for
procurement of amn or it may be processed separately. Willingness
be stated in both cases.

以上是对厂家具体的细则要求

5. Firms are requested to confirm availability of a product envisaged as
above and that they will respond to a Request for Proposal (RFP), if placed
on them. Response to the RFI is expected by 1300 hours of 25 Sep 2010
at the following address:-
Dir MGO/Staff and Coord
MGO Branch
Room No. 218, ‘A’ Wing, Sena Bhawan
IHQ of MoD (Army), New Delhi- 110 011
Tele- 23018137
Fax- 23018137
6. The envelope must be super scribed with ‘RESPONSE TO RFI FOR
125 mm FSAPDS amn’ and should be delivered on any working day by the
due date in the MGO Branch tender box placed at Gate No.2 Sena
Bhawan.
3
OPERATIONAL & TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS AND FEATURES
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-339)
1. The proposed ammunition and its components should be fully in
Metric system.
2. Caliber. The ammunition should be capable of being fired from
125 mm Smooth Bore Tank Gun of T-90 and T-72 tks.
3. Shelf Life. Not less than 15 (fifteen) years under Indian Tropical
Conditions. Specification with regard to explosives fillings with test
procedures to evaluate the shelf life be made available to DGQA (Indian
QA Agency). Literature substantiating the claim that explosive fillings
would give stipulated shelf life need to be made available.
Technical Characteristics

下面是印度编号为AMK-339的125mm弹药参数要求

4. The major technical characteristics are as under:-
(a) Round Designation of Mark - 3BbM17
(b) Projectile Designation or Mark- 3bM-42   性能要求是3BM42级别或者是3BM42
(c) Mass of Shell or Shot (kg) - 7.05 kg
(d) Mass of Round (kg) - 20.4 kg
(e) Primer - GUV-7
(f) Designation of SCC - 4>K 63
(g) Increment Propelling charge - 9.50 kg
(h) Muzzle Velocity (m/s) - 1700
(j) Effective Range (M) - Not less than 2700
(k) Consistency group of Rds - HSD & VSD ≤ 0.35 mil
(l) Tracer - 3YPZM
4
(m) Armour Piercing
Characteristic. The depth of
perforation (piercing) in mm.
- Prospective vendors to state
details.
穿甲性能要求由供货商提供
(n) Nominal Pressure - 440 M Pa
(o) Maximum Pressure - 530 M Pa
5. Environmental Condition
(a) Minimum Temperature for use - -40°C
(b) Maximum Temperature for use - +50°C
(c) Minimum Temperature for storage - -40°C
(d) Maximum Temperature for storage - +50°C
(e) Maximum Relative Humidity - 95%
(f) Average Relative Humidity - 65%
(g) Mean value of year’s Temp - 32°C



REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR
PROCUREMENT OF FSAPDS AMN FOR TANKS T-72 AND T-90
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-340A)
求购等效于印度编号AMK340A用于T72和T90的FSAPDS弹药

厂家要求基本相同,不再一一标注了,

1. Indian Army is looking for high quality 125 mm FSAPDS amn for
in-service Tk T-72 and Tk T -90. MGO’s Branch Integrated HQ of the
MoD(Army) requests urgent information from reputed Original Equipment
Manufacturers (OEM) of amn for supply of good quality amn for Tk T-72
and T -90 to be used by the Indian Army.
2. Initial requirement may be approximately 75,000 to 1,00,000 to be
supplied within 12 – 18 months of signing of contract. Broad tentative
specifications for the amn is enclosed. Firms are requested to forward
comprehensive details of their product meeting the broad specifications
enclosed.
3. Interested parties with annual turn-over of not less than Rs.100 crore
should clearly mention their ability to deliver a product as per these broad
specifications.
4. Please also furnish the following details:-
(a) Proof of being Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).
(b) Technical literature of the amn.
(c) Test methods for checking of quality parameters.
(d) Product range.
(e) Annual turn over of last three years (i.e for 2007-08, 2008-09 &
2009-10) with past experience in the field.
(f) Annual production capacity for last two years viz 2008-09 &
2009-10
(g) Details of supplies to Defence Forces of other countries on
successful completion of large orders previously undertaken.
(h) Willingness to offer amn for technical evaluation in India prior to
signing of contract.
6
(j) Willingness for Transfer of Technology (TOT) to Indian vendor
for indigenous production in the country.
(k) The TOT may be obtained as part of the contract for
procurement of amn or it may be processed separately. Willingness
be stated in both cases.
5. Firms are requested to confirm availability of a product envisaged as
above and that they will respond to a Request for Proposal (RFP), if placed
on them. Response to the RFI is expected by 1300 hours of 20 Sep 2010
at the following address:-
Dir MGO/Staff and Coord
MGO Branch
Room No. 218, ‘A’ Wing, Sena Bhawan
IHQ of MoD (Army), New Delhi- 110 011
Tele- 23018137
Fax- 23018137
6. The envelope must be super scribed with ‘RESPONSE TO RFI FOR
125 mm FSAPDS amn’ and should be delivered on any working day by the
due date in the MGO Branch tender box placed at Gate No.2 Sena
Bhawan.
7
OPERATIONAL & TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS AND FEATURES
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-340A)
General
1. The proposed amn and its components should be fully in Metric sys.
2. Caliber. The amn should be capable of being fired from 125 mm
Smooth Bore Tank Gun of T-90 and T-72 tks.
3. Shelf Life. Not less than 15 yrs under Indian Tropical Conditions.
Specification with regard to explosive fillings with test procedures to
evaluate the shelf life be made available to DGQA (Indian QA Agency).
Literature substantiating the claim that explosive fillings would give
stipulated shelf life need to be made available.
Technical Characteristics
4. The major technical characteristics are as under:-
(a) Round Designation of Mark - CL3254M
(b) Projectile Designation or Mark- CL3254M
(c) Mass of Shell or Shot (kg) - 7.89 kg
(d) Mass of Round (kg) - 21.0 kg
(e) Primer - GUV-7
(f) Designation of SCC - CL3254M
(g) Muzzle Velocity (m/s) - 1660
(h) Effective Range (M) - Not less than 3000
(j) Armour Penetration - 225 mm RHA plate at 62
deg NATO target.

穿深要求,225mm62度北约标准靶板,(等效约为480)
(k) Pressure amb (MPa) - 530
8
(l) Projectile. The diameter of the projectile should not exceed
124.85 mm. The projectile should be painted and marked in
accordance with the applicable drawing. Should be withstand firing
from a D81 gun at 600 Mpa.
(m) Tracer. Should be flame ignited when fired within the
temperature range of -40°C to + 50°C the tracer should be visible at
ranges from 200 to 2000 meters.
(n) Combustible Cartg Case, Residues after Firing. In a barrel
not fitted with a bore evacuator or blower, no glimmering or burning
residues are acceptable, including residues at the breech level in the
operating temperature range of each round. Unburned Debris of 0.05
gm is acceptable however these should preferably not be in each
chamber/bore. For a maximum of 5% of the cartridges that have
undergone environmental treatment, the total unburned residues
recovered over the barrel length may reach 5 grams per firing.
5. Environmental Condition
(a) Minimum Temperature for use - -40°C
(b) Maximum Temperature for use - +50°C
(c) Minimum Temperature for storage - -40°C
(d) Maximum Temperature for storage - +50°C
(e) Mean value of year’s Temp - 21°C
(f) The test should not be conducted during adverse weather
conditions



综合后面AMK-340A的数据来看,

毛子打靶性能缩水15%还是比较科学的,

因为换算回来480X115%=552

刚好是毛子标称的3BM42M穿深,

这样看来印度不标出AMK-339的穿深数据就很值得玩味了,

因为那东西,也就是3BM42的实际穿深,

极有可能真的只有380,

也就是说,

印度连穿深380的穿甲弹都没法自行设计生产,(2010年)



其实个人找出这个东西来的目的并不是扒印度的底,

而是针对毛子外贸最好的弹药是3BM42没有更好弹药可用这一点,

事实证明,

毛子有卖更好的弹药,

只不过这玩应也不咋地就是了,

不过同时的,

豹2前期型号连3BM42这种380穿的东西都能打穿,

也可以相应看出来西方坦克的防御到底是什么水平,

是不是只有毛子在吹了,



后附PDF文件下载,








数据里面的穿深都是2000M斜靶数据,事实上个人对所谓的什么半无限非常不感冒,

因为设计出来的穿甲弹是不可能针对于无限厚的靶板的,

对于非无限厚,

针对厚度所设计的穿透模型就是最科学有效的,

所谓的半无限,

个人看来单纯就是某些人为了给特定弹种上个DEBUFF拿出来的说辞,

没有任何意义和参考价值


另外一点就是,

对于军迷们嘴巴里非常不屑的400-500穿深的弹药,

貌似满地球也没几家能量产,

之前跟其他人撕毛子出口弹药问题,

争论印度T90到底有没有能力击穿96/哈利德

所以特意去印度国防部网站搜索了一圈,

发现了一份10年的印度军方为T72和T90寻求弹药收购和技术转让进行国产的招标文件,


来源地址http://indianarmy.gov.in/

因为这个网站没办法直接贴链接跳转到目标页,所以只给出了主页,

进入后搜索

RFI for procurement of FSAPDS Amn for Tanks T-72 and T-90(Indian Equivalent of AMK-339)

或者FSAPDS即可,(搜索栏没法点的话切换输入法,还不行随便点进去个链接在下级网页上就能搜索了)


原文如下

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR
PROCUREMENT OF FSAPDS AMN FOR TANKS T-72 AND T-90
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-339)
求购等效于印度编号AMK339用于T72和T90的FSAPDS弹药

1. Indian Army is looking for high quality 125 mm FSAPDS amn for
in-service Tk T-72 and Tk T -90. MGO’s Branch Integrated HQ of the
MoD(Army) requests urgent information from reputed Original Equipment      
Manufacturers (OEM) of amn for supply of good quality amn for Tk T-72
and T -90 to be used by the Indian Army.
2. Initial requirement may be approximately 75,000 to 1,00,000 to be
supplied within 12 – 18 months of signing of contract. Broad tentative
specifications for the amn is enclosed. Firms are requested to forward
comprehensive details of their product meeting the broad specifications
enclosed.

这段大致上是采购数量和交付时间,

3. Interested parties with annual turn-over of not less than Rs.100 crore
should clearly mention their ability to deliver a product as per these broad
specifications.
4. Please also furnish the following details:-
(a) Proof of being Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).
(b) Technical literature of the amn.
(c) Test methods for checking of quality parameters.
(d) Product range.
(e) Annual turn over of last three years (i.e for 2007-08, 2008-09 &
2009-10) with past experience in the field.
要求提供过去三年的制造经验
(f) Annual production capacity for last two years viz 2008-09 &
2009-10
要求提供过去两年的产能数据
(g) Details of supplies to Defence Forces of other countries on
successful completion of large orders previously undertaken.
要求提供已完成的其他国家同类型订单数据
(h) Willingness to offer amn for technical evaluation in India prior to
signing of contract.
(j) Willingness for Transfer of Technology (TOT) to Indian vendor
for indigenous production in the country.
愿意提供技术转让以支持印度自产
(k) The TOT may be obtained as part of the contract for
procurement of amn or it may be processed separately. Willingness
be stated in both cases.

以上是对厂家具体的细则要求

5. Firms are requested to confirm availability of a product envisaged as
above and that they will respond to a Request for Proposal (RFP), if placed
on them. Response to the RFI is expected by 1300 hours of 25 Sep 2010
at the following address:-
Dir MGO/Staff and Coord
MGO Branch
Room No. 218, ‘A’ Wing, Sena Bhawan
IHQ of MoD (Army), New Delhi- 110 011
Tele- 23018137
Fax- 23018137
6. The envelope must be super scribed with ‘RESPONSE TO RFI FOR
125 mm FSAPDS amn’ and should be delivered on any working day by the
due date in the MGO Branch tender box placed at Gate No.2 Sena
Bhawan.
3
OPERATIONAL & TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS AND FEATURES
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-339)
1. The proposed ammunition and its components should be fully in
Metric system.
2. Caliber. The ammunition should be capable of being fired from
125 mm Smooth Bore Tank Gun of T-90 and T-72 tks.
3. Shelf Life. Not less than 15 (fifteen) years under Indian Tropical
Conditions. Specification with regard to explosives fillings with test
procedures to evaluate the shelf life be made available to DGQA (Indian
QA Agency). Literature substantiating the claim that explosive fillings
would give stipulated shelf life need to be made available.
Technical Characteristics

下面是印度编号为AMK-339的125mm弹药参数要求

4. The major technical characteristics are as under:-
(a) Round Designation of Mark - 3BbM17
(b) Projectile Designation or Mark- 3bM-42   性能要求是3BM42级别或者是3BM42
(c) Mass of Shell or Shot (kg) - 7.05 kg
(d) Mass of Round (kg) - 20.4 kg
(e) Primer - GUV-7
(f) Designation of SCC - 4>K 63
(g) Increment Propelling charge - 9.50 kg
(h) Muzzle Velocity (m/s) - 1700
(j) Effective Range (M) - Not less than 2700
(k) Consistency group of Rds - HSD & VSD ≤ 0.35 mil
(l) Tracer - 3YPZM
4
(m) Armour Piercing
Characteristic. The depth of
perforation (piercing) in mm.
- Prospective vendors to state
details.
穿甲性能要求由供货商提供
(n) Nominal Pressure - 440 M Pa
(o) Maximum Pressure - 530 M Pa
5. Environmental Condition
(a) Minimum Temperature for use - -40°C
(b) Maximum Temperature for use - +50°C
(c) Minimum Temperature for storage - -40°C
(d) Maximum Temperature for storage - +50°C
(e) Maximum Relative Humidity - 95%
(f) Average Relative Humidity - 65%
(g) Mean value of year’s Temp - 32°C



REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR
PROCUREMENT OF FSAPDS AMN FOR TANKS T-72 AND T-90
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-340A)
求购等效于印度编号AMK340A用于T72和T90的FSAPDS弹药

厂家要求基本相同,不再一一标注了,

1. Indian Army is looking for high quality 125 mm FSAPDS amn for
in-service Tk T-72 and Tk T -90. MGO’s Branch Integrated HQ of the
MoD(Army) requests urgent information from reputed Original Equipment
Manufacturers (OEM) of amn for supply of good quality amn for Tk T-72
and T -90 to be used by the Indian Army.
2. Initial requirement may be approximately 75,000 to 1,00,000 to be
supplied within 12 – 18 months of signing of contract. Broad tentative
specifications for the amn is enclosed. Firms are requested to forward
comprehensive details of their product meeting the broad specifications
enclosed.
3. Interested parties with annual turn-over of not less than Rs.100 crore
should clearly mention their ability to deliver a product as per these broad
specifications.
4. Please also furnish the following details:-
(a) Proof of being Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).
(b) Technical literature of the amn.
(c) Test methods for checking of quality parameters.
(d) Product range.
(e) Annual turn over of last three years (i.e for 2007-08, 2008-09 &
2009-10) with past experience in the field.
(f) Annual production capacity for last two years viz 2008-09 &
2009-10
(g) Details of supplies to Defence Forces of other countries on
successful completion of large orders previously undertaken.
(h) Willingness to offer amn for technical evaluation in India prior to
signing of contract.
6
(j) Willingness for Transfer of Technology (TOT) to Indian vendor
for indigenous production in the country.
(k) The TOT may be obtained as part of the contract for
procurement of amn or it may be processed separately. Willingness
be stated in both cases.
5. Firms are requested to confirm availability of a product envisaged as
above and that they will respond to a Request for Proposal (RFP), if placed
on them. Response to the RFI is expected by 1300 hours of 20 Sep 2010
at the following address:-
Dir MGO/Staff and Coord
MGO Branch
Room No. 218, ‘A’ Wing, Sena Bhawan
IHQ of MoD (Army), New Delhi- 110 011
Tele- 23018137
Fax- 23018137
6. The envelope must be super scribed with ‘RESPONSE TO RFI FOR
125 mm FSAPDS amn’ and should be delivered on any working day by the
due date in the MGO Branch tender box placed at Gate No.2 Sena
Bhawan.
7
OPERATIONAL & TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS AND FEATURES
(INDIAN EQUIVALENT OF AMK-340A)
General
1. The proposed amn and its components should be fully in Metric sys.
2. Caliber. The amn should be capable of being fired from 125 mm
Smooth Bore Tank Gun of T-90 and T-72 tks.
3. Shelf Life. Not less than 15 yrs under Indian Tropical Conditions.
Specification with regard to explosive fillings with test procedures to
evaluate the shelf life be made available to DGQA (Indian QA Agency).
Literature substantiating the claim that explosive fillings would give
stipulated shelf life need to be made available.
Technical Characteristics
4. The major technical characteristics are as under:-
(a) Round Designation of Mark - CL3254M
(b) Projectile Designation or Mark- CL3254M
(c) Mass of Shell or Shot (kg) - 7.89 kg
(d) Mass of Round (kg) - 21.0 kg
(e) Primer - GUV-7
(f) Designation of SCC - CL3254M
(g) Muzzle Velocity (m/s) - 1660
(h) Effective Range (M) - Not less than 3000
(j) Armour Penetration - 225 mm RHA plate at 62
deg NATO target.

穿深要求,225mm62度北约标准靶板,(等效约为480)
(k) Pressure amb (MPa) - 530
8
(l) Projectile. The diameter of the projectile should not exceed
124.85 mm. The projectile should be painted and marked in
accordance with the applicable drawing. Should be withstand firing
from a D81 gun at 600 Mpa.
(m) Tracer. Should be flame ignited when fired within the
temperature range of -40°C to + 50°C the tracer should be visible at
ranges from 200 to 2000 meters.
(n) Combustible Cartg Case, Residues after Firing. In a barrel
not fitted with a bore evacuator or blower, no glimmering or burning
residues are acceptable, including residues at the breech level in the
operating temperature range of each round. Unburned Debris of 0.05
gm is acceptable however these should preferably not be in each
chamber/bore. For a maximum of 5% of the cartridges that have
undergone environmental treatment, the total unburned residues
recovered over the barrel length may reach 5 grams per firing.
5. Environmental Condition
(a) Minimum Temperature for use - -40°C
(b) Maximum Temperature for use - +50°C
(c) Minimum Temperature for storage - -40°C
(d) Maximum Temperature for storage - +50°C
(e) Mean value of year’s Temp - 21°C
(f) The test should not be conducted during adverse weather
conditions



综合后面AMK-340A的数据来看,

毛子打靶性能缩水15%还是比较科学的,

因为换算回来480X115%=552

刚好是毛子标称的3BM42M穿深,

这样看来印度不标出AMK-339的穿深数据就很值得玩味了,

因为那东西,也就是3BM42的实际穿深,

极有可能真的只有380,

也就是说,

印度连穿深380的穿甲弹都没法自行设计生产,(2010年)



其实个人找出这个东西来的目的并不是扒印度的底,

而是针对毛子外贸最好的弹药是3BM42没有更好弹药可用这一点,

事实证明,

毛子有卖更好的弹药,

只不过这玩应也不咋地就是了,

不过同时的,

豹2前期型号连3BM42这种380穿的东西都能打穿,

也可以相应看出来西方坦克的防御到底是什么水平,

是不是只有毛子在吹了,



后附PDF文件下载,








数据里面的穿深都是2000M斜靶数据,事实上个人对所谓的什么半无限非常不感冒,

因为设计出来的穿甲弹是不可能针对于无限厚的靶板的,

对于非无限厚,

针对厚度所设计的穿透模型就是最科学有效的,

所谓的半无限,

个人看来单纯就是某些人为了给特定弹种上个DEBUFF拿出来的说辞,

没有任何意义和参考价值


另外一点就是,

对于军迷们嘴巴里非常不屑的400-500穿深的弹药,

貌似满地球也没几家能量产,