超级军网渣翻国外友人红酒胜出土耳其防空竞标，还是有明白人的啊
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/29 10:33:15
红酒胜出竞标，非常高兴，但是独乐乐，不如与众乐乐，就如买了一件新衣服，穿上却找不到镜子，没国外友人评论不幸福啊。
Goolge 了一下，相关新闻很少（西方都沉默了吗），找到一个随手渣翻了一篇，太懒了，文章就没翻了，只翻评论了，水平不好，大家凑合着看吧。
(没权限发链接)
Chinese firm under U.S. sanctions wins Turkish missile deal
(Reuters) - NATO member Turkey announced on Thursday it had agreed a $4 billion co-production deal for a long-range air and missile defense system with a Chinese firm hit by U.S. sanctions, rejecting rival bids from Russian, U.S. and European firms.
The decision to take the FD-2000 from China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) underlined the growing strength of China's defense industry as well as Beijing's political interest in the Middle East and Turkey's increasingly independent line towards Western partners.
Some Western defense analysts said they were surprised by the choice of the Chinese system, having expected the contract to go to the U.S. Raytheon Co company, which builds the Patriot missile, or the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T.
The U.S., Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries and up to 400 soldiers to operate them to south-eastern Turkey early this year after Ankara asked NATO for help with air defenses against possible missile attack from Syria.
Certainly the use of a Chinese rather than a Western system by Turkey would pose questions of compatibility and security for the North Atlantic Alliance.
"You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control)," one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. "I think it is going to raise difficulties."
Christina Lin, a former U.S. official and now fellow at the School for Advanced International Studies (SAIS) in Washington DC. described the Turkish decision, announced by the Defense Ministry in Ankara, as a "wake-up call" for Western allies.
"China is looking to get a lot more involved in the Middle East and it is being increasingly accepted there," she said. "Turkey is increasingly frustrated with the EU and has made it clear that it is pivoting towards the east as well."
In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.
It did not say precisely what CPMIEC had done, but Washington has penalized the company before. In 2003, Washington said it was extending sanctions on the firm for arms sales to Iran. It was unclear when those measures were first imposed.
Turkish analysts said they believed Ankara had chosen its Chinese partner for technological reasons as well as a lower price.
"Turkey's NATO allies are distanced to the idea of co-production and technological transfer," Atilla Sandikli, the chairman of think-tank Bilgesam and former high-level officer in the Turkish army, said.
"But the Chinese firm states the opposite. I think Turkey's choice is a message to its NATO allies in this sense."
CPMIEC was not immediately available for comment.
NATO STANDARDISATION
Turkey has long been the United States' closest ally in the Middle Eastern region, bordering during the Cold War on the Soviet Union. The U.S. military exercised great influence over a Turkish military that strongly influenced domestic politics.
Under Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, elected in 2002, the role of the Turkish military in politics has been curbed. Political and military relations between Ankara and Washington, while still close, play a less central role and this could be reflected in procurement policy.
Nick de Larrinaga, Europe Editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly, said the Chinese bid was long understood to have 'massively undercut other bidders'. He said Western competitors were also offering wide involvement for Turkish industry.
"The decision...is undoubtedly a surprise," he said.
"Meanwhile IHS Jane's understood that the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T was preferred by many in the Turkish Armed Forces from a capability point of view...although it was also believed to be the most expensive of all the bids."
PATRIOTS
The winning Chinese FD-2000 system beat the Patriot, the Russian S-400 and the French-Italian Eurosam Samp-T.
Raytheon, which builds the Patriot, said it had been informed about the Turkish decision and hoped to get a briefing soon. It said there were 200 Patriot units deployed in 12 countries, including Turkey.
"NATO has long supported the system, deploying Patriots in five aligned countries and, in 2012, providing a requested Patriot deployment to Turkey. Given this strong performance, we hope to have an opportunity to debrief and learn more about this decision," Raytheon spokesman Mike Doble said.
CPMIEC does not make missiles itself. The two main manufacturers are China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC). CASC makes intercontinental ballistic missiles, while CASIC focuses on short- and intermediate-range rockets.
After decades of steep military spending increases and cash injections into local contractors, experts say some Chinese-made equipment is now comparable to Russian or Western weaponry.
China last year became the world's fifth-biggest arms supplier with 5 percent of the market, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Pakistan was its biggest buyer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------以下是评论
chekovmerlin wrote:
Our friends the Turks. NOT!
我们的土耳其朋友， 不要啊 （不知道是不是这个意思）
Sep 27, 2013 12:13pm EDT -- Report as abuse
willich6 wrote:
I’m sure the chinese missile and radar technology was stolen from someone else; everything else in China was.. Wonder how these systems will perform over time.
我敢啃腚，中国的导弹和雷达技术都是偷别人的，所有的中国的东西都是... 想知道这些系统以后会有什么表现
Sep 27, 2013 12:30pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Universalist wrote:
Has China filled out a NATO application yet?
中国得到北约的同意了吗
Sep 27, 2013 12:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Whatsgoingon wrote:
“You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control),” one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. “I think it is going to raise difficulties.” Are you kidding? If they can copy the whole system, how much more difficult would it be to add another interface? Now the problem is, what if the Chinese gains knowledge on C2 through this “integration project”? I hope NATO hold a firm line keeping the Chinese system out.
他们需要有能力把这些导弹链接到北约的系统里面，一位北约的官员说到， 我认为这个对他们来说提高了难度。 （引用原文）， 你在搞笑吗， 如果他们能够山寨整个系统，那么增加一个接口很难吗，现在的问题是，如果中国人从这个与北约系统集成的接口得到北约的信息怎么办，我希望北约能够守住底线不要让中国接入。 （我靠，国内的筒子还怕我们的技术泄露了呢。）
Sep 27, 2013 7:10pm EDT -- Report as abuse
tmc wrote:
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
Sep 27, 2013 10:24pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@whatsgoingon @willich6 Aren’t you tired of this line already? When you wake up it’ll be too late. That’s how you lose the competition. NASA has recently admitted that China is ahead of them in certain aspects.
@whatsgoingon @willich6，你们还木有搞明白吗，等你们醒过来就已经晚了。这就是你们为什么会丢掉这次竞标，NASA 最近已经承认在某些领域中国已经超过了它们。
Sep 27, 2013 10:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
nose2066 wrote:
Back in 2012, there were news stories about a Congressional investigation that found about a million fake parts in advanced U.S. military systems and most of those fake parts came from China. So if Turkey buys weapons directly from China, does Turkey get real Chinese parts instead of the fake ones?
在2012， 有新闻报道，国会调查发现在美军系统很多假冒伪劣的部分，而这些大部分来自中国（不知道什么意思，有这事儿？）所以，如果土鸡从中国买了这些武器，它能得到多少真东西。
Sep 27, 2013 12:48am EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nose2066 It’s amazing how people think about China as if it were one small town with one factory. If a factory made fake parts then all factories must make fake parts. If some factories supply Walmart then no factory can make high quality goods. Ever heard about their speed train networks success story? Did Amtrak build them? Wake up, America.
@nose2066 对于人们还认为中国好像就只有一些山寨工厂，我惊呆了， 如果这些工厂只能生产假冒伪劣产品， 沃尔玛就没有高品质的产品了，听过过他们的高铁没，那是Amtrak（美国的铁道部）建造的吗，醒醒吧，美国人。
Sep 28, 2013 1:30am EDT -- Report as abuse
nqk wrote:
@wpgger, you seem to forget that the speed train techs was stolen from the japanese company. Every modern techs currently used in China are stolen from some others nation. wake up nations and protect your interest.
@wpgger，看起来你忘了这些高铁是他们从日本偷来的，现在中国用的现代科技都是从其他国家偷过来的，天干物燥，小心火烛。
Sep 28, 2013 1:15pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nqk: China licensed techs from EU, japan and Canada, and combined the best of the three to build their own. We may have free speech in this country. Uneducated ones. Before we complain how other countries do not like us, we do well to take a look in the mirror.
@nqk， 中国获得了欧洲、日本和加拿大的高铁技术，并把最好的技术结合到了一起做出了他们自己的高铁（集龙珠，得神龙啊），无知的人说出无知的言论，这就是言论自由吗，在我们抱怨其它国家不喜欢我们之前，我们最好先撒泡尿照照自己的影子。（wpgger，你是国外版的公知吗，还是张菊座下得力干将，乃要告诉国外友人，我们的红酒是爱国者和S300的合体）。
Sep 28, 2013 6:19pm EDT -- Report as abuse
翻完收功，路漫漫其修远，也许再过十年，人们也许忘了他们曾经说过这样那样的话，但是现在和未来，信心和希望是我们最需要的。
红酒胜出竞标，非常高兴，但是独乐乐，不如与众乐乐，就如买了一件新衣服，穿上却找不到镜子，没国外友人评论不幸福啊。
Goolge 了一下，相关新闻很少（西方都沉默了吗），找到一个随手渣翻了一篇，太懒了，文章就没翻了，只翻评论了，水平不好，大家凑合着看吧。
(没权限发链接)
Chinese firm under U.S. sanctions wins Turkish missile deal
(Reuters) - NATO member Turkey announced on Thursday it had agreed a $4 billion co-production deal for a long-range air and missile defense system with a Chinese firm hit by U.S. sanctions, rejecting rival bids from Russian, U.S. and European firms.
The decision to take the FD-2000 from China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) underlined the growing strength of China's defense industry as well as Beijing's political interest in the Middle East and Turkey's increasingly independent line towards Western partners.
Some Western defense analysts said they were surprised by the choice of the Chinese system, having expected the contract to go to the U.S. Raytheon Co company, which builds the Patriot missile, or the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T.
The U.S., Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries and up to 400 soldiers to operate them to south-eastern Turkey early this year after Ankara asked NATO for help with air defenses against possible missile attack from Syria.
Certainly the use of a Chinese rather than a Western system by Turkey would pose questions of compatibility and security for the North Atlantic Alliance.
"You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control)," one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. "I think it is going to raise difficulties."
Christina Lin, a former U.S. official and now fellow at the School for Advanced International Studies (SAIS) in Washington DC. described the Turkish decision, announced by the Defense Ministry in Ankara, as a "wake-up call" for Western allies.
"China is looking to get a lot more involved in the Middle East and it is being increasingly accepted there," she said. "Turkey is increasingly frustrated with the EU and has made it clear that it is pivoting towards the east as well."
In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.
It did not say precisely what CPMIEC had done, but Washington has penalized the company before. In 2003, Washington said it was extending sanctions on the firm for arms sales to Iran. It was unclear when those measures were first imposed.
Turkish analysts said they believed Ankara had chosen its Chinese partner for technological reasons as well as a lower price.
"Turkey's NATO allies are distanced to the idea of co-production and technological transfer," Atilla Sandikli, the chairman of think-tank Bilgesam and former high-level officer in the Turkish army, said.
"But the Chinese firm states the opposite. I think Turkey's choice is a message to its NATO allies in this sense."
CPMIEC was not immediately available for comment.
NATO STANDARDISATION
Turkey has long been the United States' closest ally in the Middle Eastern region, bordering during the Cold War on the Soviet Union. The U.S. military exercised great influence over a Turkish military that strongly influenced domestic politics.
Under Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, elected in 2002, the role of the Turkish military in politics has been curbed. Political and military relations between Ankara and Washington, while still close, play a less central role and this could be reflected in procurement policy.
Nick de Larrinaga, Europe Editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly, said the Chinese bid was long understood to have 'massively undercut other bidders'. He said Western competitors were also offering wide involvement for Turkish industry.
"The decision...is undoubtedly a surprise," he said.
"Meanwhile IHS Jane's understood that the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T was preferred by many in the Turkish Armed Forces from a capability point of view...although it was also believed to be the most expensive of all the bids."
PATRIOTS
The winning Chinese FD-2000 system beat the Patriot, the Russian S-400 and the French-Italian Eurosam Samp-T.
Raytheon, which builds the Patriot, said it had been informed about the Turkish decision and hoped to get a briefing soon. It said there were 200 Patriot units deployed in 12 countries, including Turkey.
"NATO has long supported the system, deploying Patriots in five aligned countries and, in 2012, providing a requested Patriot deployment to Turkey. Given this strong performance, we hope to have an opportunity to debrief and learn more about this decision," Raytheon spokesman Mike Doble said.
CPMIEC does not make missiles itself. The two main manufacturers are China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC). CASC makes intercontinental ballistic missiles, while CASIC focuses on short- and intermediate-range rockets.
After decades of steep military spending increases and cash injections into local contractors, experts say some Chinese-made equipment is now comparable to Russian or Western weaponry.
China last year became the world's fifth-biggest arms supplier with 5 percent of the market, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Pakistan was its biggest buyer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------以下是评论
chekovmerlin wrote:
Our friends the Turks. NOT!
我们的土耳其朋友， 不要啊 （不知道是不是这个意思）
Sep 27, 2013 12:13pm EDT -- Report as abuse
willich6 wrote:
I’m sure the chinese missile and radar technology was stolen from someone else; everything else in China was.. Wonder how these systems will perform over time.
我敢啃腚，中国的导弹和雷达技术都是偷别人的，所有的中国的东西都是... 想知道这些系统以后会有什么表现
Sep 27, 2013 12:30pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Universalist wrote:
Has China filled out a NATO application yet?
中国得到北约的同意了吗
Sep 27, 2013 12:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Whatsgoingon wrote:
“You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control),” one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. “I think it is going to raise difficulties.” Are you kidding? If they can copy the whole system, how much more difficult would it be to add another interface? Now the problem is, what if the Chinese gains knowledge on C2 through this “integration project”? I hope NATO hold a firm line keeping the Chinese system out.
他们需要有能力把这些导弹链接到北约的系统里面，一位北约的官员说到， 我认为这个对他们来说提高了难度。 （引用原文）， 你在搞笑吗， 如果他们能够山寨整个系统，那么增加一个接口很难吗，现在的问题是，如果中国人从这个与北约系统集成的接口得到北约的信息怎么办，我希望北约能够守住底线不要让中国接入。 （我靠，国内的筒子还怕我们的技术泄露了呢。）
Sep 27, 2013 7:10pm EDT -- Report as abuse
tmc wrote:
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
Sep 27, 2013 10:24pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@whatsgoingon @willich6 Aren’t you tired of this line already? When you wake up it’ll be too late. That’s how you lose the competition. NASA has recently admitted that China is ahead of them in certain aspects.
@whatsgoingon @willich6，你们还木有搞明白吗，等你们醒过来就已经晚了。这就是你们为什么会丢掉这次竞标，NASA 最近已经承认在某些领域中国已经超过了它们。
Sep 27, 2013 10:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
nose2066 wrote:
Back in 2012, there were news stories about a Congressional investigation that found about a million fake parts in advanced U.S. military systems and most of those fake parts came from China. So if Turkey buys weapons directly from China, does Turkey get real Chinese parts instead of the fake ones?
在2012， 有新闻报道，国会调查发现在美军系统很多假冒伪劣的部分，而这些大部分来自中国（不知道什么意思，有这事儿？）所以，如果土鸡从中国买了这些武器，它能得到多少真东西。
Sep 27, 2013 12:48am EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nose2066 It’s amazing how people think about China as if it were one small town with one factory. If a factory made fake parts then all factories must make fake parts. If some factories supply Walmart then no factory can make high quality goods. Ever heard about their speed train networks success story? Did Amtrak build them? Wake up, America.
@nose2066 对于人们还认为中国好像就只有一些山寨工厂，我惊呆了， 如果这些工厂只能生产假冒伪劣产品， 沃尔玛就没有高品质的产品了，听过过他们的高铁没，那是Amtrak（美国的铁道部）建造的吗，醒醒吧，美国人。
Sep 28, 2013 1:30am EDT -- Report as abuse
nqk wrote:
@wpgger, you seem to forget that the speed train techs was stolen from the japanese company. Every modern techs currently used in China are stolen from some others nation. wake up nations and protect your interest.
@wpgger，看起来你忘了这些高铁是他们从日本偷来的，现在中国用的现代科技都是从其他国家偷过来的，天干物燥，小心火烛。
Sep 28, 2013 1:15pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nqk: China licensed techs from EU, japan and Canada, and combined the best of the three to build their own. We may have free speech in this country. Uneducated ones. Before we complain how other countries do not like us, we do well to take a look in the mirror.
@nqk， 中国获得了欧洲、日本和加拿大的高铁技术，并把最好的技术结合到了一起做出了他们自己的高铁（集龙珠，得神龙啊），无知的人说出无知的言论，这就是言论自由吗，在我们抱怨其它国家不喜欢我们之前，我们最好先撒泡尿照照自己的影子。（wpgger，你是国外版的公知吗，还是张菊座下得力干将，乃要告诉国外友人，我们的红酒是爱国者和S300的合体）。
Sep 28, 2013 6:19pm EDT -- Report as abuse
翻完收功，路漫漫其修远，也许再过十年，人们也许忘了他们曾经说过这样那样的话，但是现在和未来，信心和希望是我们最需要的。
Goolge 了一下，相关新闻很少（西方都沉默了吗），找到一个随手渣翻了一篇，太懒了，文章就没翻了，只翻评论了，水平不好，大家凑合着看吧。
(没权限发链接)
Chinese firm under U.S. sanctions wins Turkish missile deal
(Reuters) - NATO member Turkey announced on Thursday it had agreed a $4 billion co-production deal for a long-range air and missile defense system with a Chinese firm hit by U.S. sanctions, rejecting rival bids from Russian, U.S. and European firms.
The decision to take the FD-2000 from China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) underlined the growing strength of China's defense industry as well as Beijing's political interest in the Middle East and Turkey's increasingly independent line towards Western partners.
Some Western defense analysts said they were surprised by the choice of the Chinese system, having expected the contract to go to the U.S. Raytheon Co company, which builds the Patriot missile, or the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T.
The U.S., Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries and up to 400 soldiers to operate them to south-eastern Turkey early this year after Ankara asked NATO for help with air defenses against possible missile attack from Syria.
Certainly the use of a Chinese rather than a Western system by Turkey would pose questions of compatibility and security for the North Atlantic Alliance.
"You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control)," one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. "I think it is going to raise difficulties."
Christina Lin, a former U.S. official and now fellow at the School for Advanced International Studies (SAIS) in Washington DC. described the Turkish decision, announced by the Defense Ministry in Ankara, as a "wake-up call" for Western allies.
"China is looking to get a lot more involved in the Middle East and it is being increasingly accepted there," she said. "Turkey is increasingly frustrated with the EU and has made it clear that it is pivoting towards the east as well."
In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.
It did not say precisely what CPMIEC had done, but Washington has penalized the company before. In 2003, Washington said it was extending sanctions on the firm for arms sales to Iran. It was unclear when those measures were first imposed.
Turkish analysts said they believed Ankara had chosen its Chinese partner for technological reasons as well as a lower price.
"Turkey's NATO allies are distanced to the idea of co-production and technological transfer," Atilla Sandikli, the chairman of think-tank Bilgesam and former high-level officer in the Turkish army, said.
"But the Chinese firm states the opposite. I think Turkey's choice is a message to its NATO allies in this sense."
CPMIEC was not immediately available for comment.
NATO STANDARDISATION
Turkey has long been the United States' closest ally in the Middle Eastern region, bordering during the Cold War on the Soviet Union. The U.S. military exercised great influence over a Turkish military that strongly influenced domestic politics.
Under Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, elected in 2002, the role of the Turkish military in politics has been curbed. Political and military relations between Ankara and Washington, while still close, play a less central role and this could be reflected in procurement policy.
Nick de Larrinaga, Europe Editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly, said the Chinese bid was long understood to have 'massively undercut other bidders'. He said Western competitors were also offering wide involvement for Turkish industry.
"The decision...is undoubtedly a surprise," he said.
"Meanwhile IHS Jane's understood that the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T was preferred by many in the Turkish Armed Forces from a capability point of view...although it was also believed to be the most expensive of all the bids."
PATRIOTS
The winning Chinese FD-2000 system beat the Patriot, the Russian S-400 and the French-Italian Eurosam Samp-T.
Raytheon, which builds the Patriot, said it had been informed about the Turkish decision and hoped to get a briefing soon. It said there were 200 Patriot units deployed in 12 countries, including Turkey.
"NATO has long supported the system, deploying Patriots in five aligned countries and, in 2012, providing a requested Patriot deployment to Turkey. Given this strong performance, we hope to have an opportunity to debrief and learn more about this decision," Raytheon spokesman Mike Doble said.
CPMIEC does not make missiles itself. The two main manufacturers are China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC). CASC makes intercontinental ballistic missiles, while CASIC focuses on short- and intermediate-range rockets.
After decades of steep military spending increases and cash injections into local contractors, experts say some Chinese-made equipment is now comparable to Russian or Western weaponry.
China last year became the world's fifth-biggest arms supplier with 5 percent of the market, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Pakistan was its biggest buyer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------以下是评论
chekovmerlin wrote:
Our friends the Turks. NOT!
我们的土耳其朋友， 不要啊 （不知道是不是这个意思）
Sep 27, 2013 12:13pm EDT -- Report as abuse
willich6 wrote:
I’m sure the chinese missile and radar technology was stolen from someone else; everything else in China was.. Wonder how these systems will perform over time.
我敢啃腚，中国的导弹和雷达技术都是偷别人的，所有的中国的东西都是... 想知道这些系统以后会有什么表现
Sep 27, 2013 12:30pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Universalist wrote:
Has China filled out a NATO application yet?
中国得到北约的同意了吗
Sep 27, 2013 12:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Whatsgoingon wrote:
“You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control),” one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. “I think it is going to raise difficulties.” Are you kidding? If they can copy the whole system, how much more difficult would it be to add another interface? Now the problem is, what if the Chinese gains knowledge on C2 through this “integration project”? I hope NATO hold a firm line keeping the Chinese system out.
他们需要有能力把这些导弹链接到北约的系统里面，一位北约的官员说到， 我认为这个对他们来说提高了难度。 （引用原文）， 你在搞笑吗， 如果他们能够山寨整个系统，那么增加一个接口很难吗，现在的问题是，如果中国人从这个与北约系统集成的接口得到北约的信息怎么办，我希望北约能够守住底线不要让中国接入。 （我靠，国内的筒子还怕我们的技术泄露了呢。）
Sep 27, 2013 7:10pm EDT -- Report as abuse
tmc wrote:
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
Sep 27, 2013 10:24pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@whatsgoingon @willich6 Aren’t you tired of this line already? When you wake up it’ll be too late. That’s how you lose the competition. NASA has recently admitted that China is ahead of them in certain aspects.
@whatsgoingon @willich6，你们还木有搞明白吗，等你们醒过来就已经晚了。这就是你们为什么会丢掉这次竞标，NASA 最近已经承认在某些领域中国已经超过了它们。
Sep 27, 2013 10:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
nose2066 wrote:
Back in 2012, there were news stories about a Congressional investigation that found about a million fake parts in advanced U.S. military systems and most of those fake parts came from China. So if Turkey buys weapons directly from China, does Turkey get real Chinese parts instead of the fake ones?
在2012， 有新闻报道，国会调查发现在美军系统很多假冒伪劣的部分，而这些大部分来自中国（不知道什么意思，有这事儿？）所以，如果土鸡从中国买了这些武器，它能得到多少真东西。
Sep 27, 2013 12:48am EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nose2066 It’s amazing how people think about China as if it were one small town with one factory. If a factory made fake parts then all factories must make fake parts. If some factories supply Walmart then no factory can make high quality goods. Ever heard about their speed train networks success story? Did Amtrak build them? Wake up, America.
@nose2066 对于人们还认为中国好像就只有一些山寨工厂，我惊呆了， 如果这些工厂只能生产假冒伪劣产品， 沃尔玛就没有高品质的产品了，听过过他们的高铁没，那是Amtrak（美国的铁道部）建造的吗，醒醒吧，美国人。
Sep 28, 2013 1:30am EDT -- Report as abuse
nqk wrote:
@wpgger, you seem to forget that the speed train techs was stolen from the japanese company. Every modern techs currently used in China are stolen from some others nation. wake up nations and protect your interest.
@wpgger，看起来你忘了这些高铁是他们从日本偷来的，现在中国用的现代科技都是从其他国家偷过来的，天干物燥，小心火烛。
Sep 28, 2013 1:15pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nqk: China licensed techs from EU, japan and Canada, and combined the best of the three to build their own. We may have free speech in this country. Uneducated ones. Before we complain how other countries do not like us, we do well to take a look in the mirror.
@nqk， 中国获得了欧洲、日本和加拿大的高铁技术，并把最好的技术结合到了一起做出了他们自己的高铁（集龙珠，得神龙啊），无知的人说出无知的言论，这就是言论自由吗，在我们抱怨其它国家不喜欢我们之前，我们最好先撒泡尿照照自己的影子。（wpgger，你是国外版的公知吗，还是张菊座下得力干将，乃要告诉国外友人，我们的红酒是爱国者和S300的合体）。
Sep 28, 2013 6:19pm EDT -- Report as abuse
翻完收功，路漫漫其修远，也许再过十年，人们也许忘了他们曾经说过这样那样的话，但是现在和未来，信心和希望是我们最需要的。
红酒胜出竞标，非常高兴，但是独乐乐，不如与众乐乐，就如买了一件新衣服，穿上却找不到镜子，没国外友人评论不幸福啊。
Goolge 了一下，相关新闻很少（西方都沉默了吗），找到一个随手渣翻了一篇，太懒了，文章就没翻了，只翻评论了，水平不好，大家凑合着看吧。
(没权限发链接)
Chinese firm under U.S. sanctions wins Turkish missile deal
(Reuters) - NATO member Turkey announced on Thursday it had agreed a $4 billion co-production deal for a long-range air and missile defense system with a Chinese firm hit by U.S. sanctions, rejecting rival bids from Russian, U.S. and European firms.
The decision to take the FD-2000 from China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) underlined the growing strength of China's defense industry as well as Beijing's political interest in the Middle East and Turkey's increasingly independent line towards Western partners.
Some Western defense analysts said they were surprised by the choice of the Chinese system, having expected the contract to go to the U.S. Raytheon Co company, which builds the Patriot missile, or the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T.
The U.S., Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries and up to 400 soldiers to operate them to south-eastern Turkey early this year after Ankara asked NATO for help with air defenses against possible missile attack from Syria.
Certainly the use of a Chinese rather than a Western system by Turkey would pose questions of compatibility and security for the North Atlantic Alliance.
"You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control)," one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. "I think it is going to raise difficulties."
Christina Lin, a former U.S. official and now fellow at the School for Advanced International Studies (SAIS) in Washington DC. described the Turkish decision, announced by the Defense Ministry in Ankara, as a "wake-up call" for Western allies.
"China is looking to get a lot more involved in the Middle East and it is being increasingly accepted there," she said. "Turkey is increasingly frustrated with the EU and has made it clear that it is pivoting towards the east as well."
In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.
It did not say precisely what CPMIEC had done, but Washington has penalized the company before. In 2003, Washington said it was extending sanctions on the firm for arms sales to Iran. It was unclear when those measures were first imposed.
Turkish analysts said they believed Ankara had chosen its Chinese partner for technological reasons as well as a lower price.
"Turkey's NATO allies are distanced to the idea of co-production and technological transfer," Atilla Sandikli, the chairman of think-tank Bilgesam and former high-level officer in the Turkish army, said.
"But the Chinese firm states the opposite. I think Turkey's choice is a message to its NATO allies in this sense."
CPMIEC was not immediately available for comment.
NATO STANDARDISATION
Turkey has long been the United States' closest ally in the Middle Eastern region, bordering during the Cold War on the Soviet Union. The U.S. military exercised great influence over a Turkish military that strongly influenced domestic politics.
Under Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, elected in 2002, the role of the Turkish military in politics has been curbed. Political and military relations between Ankara and Washington, while still close, play a less central role and this could be reflected in procurement policy.
Nick de Larrinaga, Europe Editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly, said the Chinese bid was long understood to have 'massively undercut other bidders'. He said Western competitors were also offering wide involvement for Turkish industry.
"The decision...is undoubtedly a surprise," he said.
"Meanwhile IHS Jane's understood that the Franco/Italian Eurosam SAMP/T was preferred by many in the Turkish Armed Forces from a capability point of view...although it was also believed to be the most expensive of all the bids."
PATRIOTS
The winning Chinese FD-2000 system beat the Patriot, the Russian S-400 and the French-Italian Eurosam Samp-T.
Raytheon, which builds the Patriot, said it had been informed about the Turkish decision and hoped to get a briefing soon. It said there were 200 Patriot units deployed in 12 countries, including Turkey.
"NATO has long supported the system, deploying Patriots in five aligned countries and, in 2012, providing a requested Patriot deployment to Turkey. Given this strong performance, we hope to have an opportunity to debrief and learn more about this decision," Raytheon spokesman Mike Doble said.
CPMIEC does not make missiles itself. The two main manufacturers are China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC). CASC makes intercontinental ballistic missiles, while CASIC focuses on short- and intermediate-range rockets.
After decades of steep military spending increases and cash injections into local contractors, experts say some Chinese-made equipment is now comparable to Russian or Western weaponry.
China last year became the world's fifth-biggest arms supplier with 5 percent of the market, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Pakistan was its biggest buyer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------以下是评论
chekovmerlin wrote:
Our friends the Turks. NOT!
我们的土耳其朋友， 不要啊 （不知道是不是这个意思）
Sep 27, 2013 12:13pm EDT -- Report as abuse
willich6 wrote:
I’m sure the chinese missile and radar technology was stolen from someone else; everything else in China was.. Wonder how these systems will perform over time.
我敢啃腚，中国的导弹和雷达技术都是偷别人的，所有的中国的东西都是... 想知道这些系统以后会有什么表现
Sep 27, 2013 12:30pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Universalist wrote:
Has China filled out a NATO application yet?
中国得到北约的同意了吗
Sep 27, 2013 12:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
Whatsgoingon wrote:
“You need to be able to link those missiles to NATO C2 (command and control),” one NATO diplomat in Brussels said. “I think it is going to raise difficulties.” Are you kidding? If they can copy the whole system, how much more difficult would it be to add another interface? Now the problem is, what if the Chinese gains knowledge on C2 through this “integration project”? I hope NATO hold a firm line keeping the Chinese system out.
他们需要有能力把这些导弹链接到北约的系统里面，一位北约的官员说到， 我认为这个对他们来说提高了难度。 （引用原文）， 你在搞笑吗， 如果他们能够山寨整个系统，那么增加一个接口很难吗，现在的问题是，如果中国人从这个与北约系统集成的接口得到北约的信息怎么办，我希望北约能够守住底线不要让中国接入。 （我靠，国内的筒子还怕我们的技术泄露了呢。）
Sep 27, 2013 7:10pm EDT -- Report as abuse
tmc wrote:
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
Sep 27, 2013 10:24pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@whatsgoingon @willich6 Aren’t you tired of this line already? When you wake up it’ll be too late. That’s how you lose the competition. NASA has recently admitted that China is ahead of them in certain aspects.
@whatsgoingon @willich6，你们还木有搞明白吗，等你们醒过来就已经晚了。这就是你们为什么会丢掉这次竞标，NASA 最近已经承认在某些领域中国已经超过了它们。
Sep 27, 2013 10:34pm EDT -- Report as abuse
nose2066 wrote:
Back in 2012, there were news stories about a Congressional investigation that found about a million fake parts in advanced U.S. military systems and most of those fake parts came from China. So if Turkey buys weapons directly from China, does Turkey get real Chinese parts instead of the fake ones?
在2012， 有新闻报道，国会调查发现在美军系统很多假冒伪劣的部分，而这些大部分来自中国（不知道什么意思，有这事儿？）所以，如果土鸡从中国买了这些武器，它能得到多少真东西。
Sep 27, 2013 12:48am EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nose2066 It’s amazing how people think about China as if it were one small town with one factory. If a factory made fake parts then all factories must make fake parts. If some factories supply Walmart then no factory can make high quality goods. Ever heard about their speed train networks success story? Did Amtrak build them? Wake up, America.
@nose2066 对于人们还认为中国好像就只有一些山寨工厂，我惊呆了， 如果这些工厂只能生产假冒伪劣产品， 沃尔玛就没有高品质的产品了，听过过他们的高铁没，那是Amtrak（美国的铁道部）建造的吗，醒醒吧，美国人。
Sep 28, 2013 1:30am EDT -- Report as abuse
nqk wrote:
@wpgger, you seem to forget that the speed train techs was stolen from the japanese company. Every modern techs currently used in China are stolen from some others nation. wake up nations and protect your interest.
@wpgger，看起来你忘了这些高铁是他们从日本偷来的，现在中国用的现代科技都是从其他国家偷过来的，天干物燥，小心火烛。
Sep 28, 2013 1:15pm EDT -- Report as abuse
wpgger wrote:
@nqk: China licensed techs from EU, japan and Canada, and combined the best of the three to build their own. We may have free speech in this country. Uneducated ones. Before we complain how other countries do not like us, we do well to take a look in the mirror.
@nqk， 中国获得了欧洲、日本和加拿大的高铁技术，并把最好的技术结合到了一起做出了他们自己的高铁（集龙珠，得神龙啊），无知的人说出无知的言论，这就是言论自由吗，在我们抱怨其它国家不喜欢我们之前，我们最好先撒泡尿照照自己的影子。（wpgger，你是国外版的公知吗，还是张菊座下得力干将，乃要告诉国外友人，我们的红酒是爱国者和S300的合体）。
Sep 28, 2013 6:19pm EDT -- Report as abuse
翻完收功，路漫漫其修远，也许再过十年，人们也许忘了他们曾经说过这样那样的话，但是现在和未来，信心和希望是我们最需要的。
好酸啊，我都不淡定了米国论坛？
米国人危机前的确比这个淡定、自信。
米国人危机前的确比这个淡定、自信。
这酸爽 不敢相信
竞争对手肯定不会送贺礼的，各种攻击文，唱衰文看多了徒增烦劳。作为某个老被网络愤愤们攻击地域滴人，偶表示对这种事你认真就输了，其实他们想看的就是你气急败坏，你要淡定了他们就傻脸了
楼主太懒了，就翻这么几个么？看看隔壁几个翻的那么一堆，真是业界良心啊！
没有王涵做广告不幸福:"这酸爽,不敢相信"
我们也喜欢嘲笑阿三的，在美国人看了我们也是阿三那样，其实不是坏事！
如果这也算渣翻 .....
这么说，该把一些国家管理科技机密的人员 都枪毙，把各国的情报 和安全部门的主管们 也都该枪毙。
技术封锁形同虚设，掌管国家机密的都是痴呆废物，不知白皮们是不是这意思？ 那么别骂中国了，先把你们一些失职的 都枪毙了啵。
技术封锁形同虚设，掌管国家机密的都是痴呆废物，不知白皮们是不是这意思？ 那么别骂中国了，先把你们一些失职的 都枪毙了啵。
云卿 发表于 2013-9-29 12:21
米国论坛？
米国人危机前的确比这个淡定、自信。
路边社的
米国论坛？
米国人危机前的确比这个淡定、自信。
路边社的
我们还是要把自己的事情做好
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
请允许我大笑三声，哈哈哈！
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
请允许我大笑三声，哈哈哈！
比切糕坚挺 发表于 2013-9-29 12:22
这酸爽 不敢相信
合格的2楼吐槽
这酸爽 不敢相信
合格的2楼吐槽
Has China filled out a NATO application yet?
更准确应该翻为“中国申请加入北约了吗?”
酸来酸去无非就是说山寨
好！！！！！！！！土鳖这广告打的。以后对中国货会另眼相看的。
在2012， 有新闻报道，国会调查发现在美军系统很多假冒伪劣的部分，而这些大部分来自中国（不知道什么意思，有这事儿？）所以，如果土鸡从中国买了这些武器，它能得到多少真东西。
没错，美军出了问题，发现有部件来自华强北，报告没有说明是什么东西，可能是拆机件。顺便说，日本军舰失火了，认为是中国的冰箱造成的。
没错，美军出了问题，发现有部件来自华强北，报告没有说明是什么东西，可能是拆机件。顺便说，日本军舰失火了，认为是中国的冰箱造成的。
我想对霉国友人说:淡定、淡定，红酒是山寨品，绝对的山寨，就像当年某些人山寨火药一样一样的。
这酸爽的味道～
比切糕坚挺 发表于 2013-9-29 12:22
这酸爽 不敢相信
你可以去做老坛酸菜的广告了
这酸爽 不敢相信
你可以去做老坛酸菜的广告了
我倒是觉得，欧美白皮越自大越好，醒来的越晚越好
醒来的太早，欧美国家的政策调整越容易
中国需要的是时间
醒来的太早，欧美国家的政策调整越容易
中国需要的是时间
多少年前，美国的产品也被英国法国不屑一顾，称其为山寨，说它价低质劣；多少年前，日本的产品被欧美国家称为山寨，指责日本偷盗他国技术
也许再过十年，人们也许忘了他们曾经说过这样那样的话，但是现在和未来，信心和希望是我们最需要的
哪里论坛反过来的啊
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
————————————————————————————————————————————————
不知道全世界卖军火最起劲的就是五大流氓嘛
我对中国感到失望，我本来以为他们是不屑于做武器销售商的 （这道德高度，站的）
————————————————————————————————————————————————
不知道全世界卖军火最起劲的就是五大流氓嘛
自己国家做出的决定你都怀疑那我真不知道说你什么好了
洋鬼子懂个球，真实原因就三个：一是红旗9性能出色，硬气；二是土G和土鸡都是同属土字辈地，亲近；三就是TG和Turkey国旗都是大红旗，红旗9谐音“红旗久”，意喻江山千秋万代，吉利！
Gundammkiv 发表于 2013-9-29 14:11
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望， ...
也请允许我多笑会
I’m disappointed in the Chinese. I thought they were above being arms dealers.
我对中国感到失望， ...
也请允许我多笑会
19世纪的美国也被欧洲人称为山寨之国，后来德国、日本都得到过这个称号，现在转移到中国头上了。这就是那群破落户的酸味，他希望自己永远独自占有技术，后发国家不能学习任何先进技术，永远给他们当仆人。可惜历史不停地扇着这些人的嘴巴。
好吧，我现在就去买一盆老坛酸菜面。。。。
时间会证明一点
这酸爽，才够味{:soso__4607844064215092132_2:}
呵呵，这才是正常言论哈。
敬外国友人们一大杯山西老醋，哈哈！
敬外国友人们一大杯山西老醋，哈哈！
镇江香醋才是我们接待外宾应有的礼仪……
镇江香醋才是我们接待外宾应有的礼仪……
以往美国还是有很多清醒者的，但这个帖子却完全看不出来
这酸爽，叫人不敢相信····
“对于人们还认为中国好像就只有一些山寨工厂，我惊呆了， 如果这些工厂只能生产假冒伪劣产品， 沃尔玛就没有高品质的产品了，听过过他们的高铁没，那是Amtrak（美国的铁道部）建造的吗，醒醒吧，美国人。”
这个说的还像人话！！！
不过我们还是要低调！！！
这个说的还像人话！！！
不过我们还是要低调！！！