巴基斯坦论坛：中国不会来帮助我们

原文标题：China Won't Help Us    龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com
原文链接：http://www.cssforum.com.pk/general/discussion/64900-china-wont-help-us.html
原文：
The people of Pakistan seem to be laboring under some delusions regarding China; the first being that it is a superpower on the level of the US and that the West is somehow dependent upon it. The second is that China is Pakistan’s best friend, ever ready to help us against India or the US. Maybe it’s because of China’s amazing growth in the last few years, or maybe Pakistanis just see China as the knight in shining armor who’ll free them from the clutches of the evil USA, but this type of thinking has distorted the world view of not only the common man, but also high profile politicians and even highly educated member of the society.
巴基斯坦人民在中国的迷惑下埋头苦干。一个原因是中国是一个和美国同等级的超级大国，而西方也在眸子程度上依赖她。其二，中国是巴基斯坦最好的朋友，时刻准备好帮助巴基斯坦对付印度和美国。也许是因为中国近些年惊人的成长，也或许是巴基斯坦把中国当成能把他们从邪恶的美国的控制中解放出来的穿着闪亮盔甲的骑士。但，这种观点扭曲了无论是普通人，还是高调的政治家，甚至是社会上受到高等教育的精英们的世界观。
Pseudo intellectuals often try to pass off as fact the claim that the West and especially the US is now economically dependent on China, which is untrue; in fact, it is the other way around. The Chinese economy is driven by exports of consumer goods (it is currently the biggest exporter in the world) and its biggest customer is the Eurozone, followed by the United States. To be fair, both the West and China are dependent to some extent on each other, but maybe dependence is too harsh a word, it would be better to say that they enjoy benefits which wouldn’t be possible without the other i.e. cheap merchandise for the West and a huge market for China.
伪知识分子经常设法把“西方尤其是美国在经济上正依赖着中国”这种论断当做真相。这是不正确的。事实上，还有另一种说法。中国的经济是依靠出口消费品来驱动的（中国现在是世界上最大的出口国），她最大的顾客是欧元区，紧接着是美国。公平地说，西方和中国在某种程度上互相依赖着对方。或许用“依赖”这个次过于严厉了，“他们都享受着只有对方才能带来的好处，即对于西方来说，中国能给给他们带去便宜的商品；对于中国来说，西方是巨大的市场”这种说法更好些。
Some people are fond of claiming that China “funds America” through loans and again this shows a poor understanding of economics. Out of a total US debt of around $15.7 Trillion, Chinese investors own just over $1 Trillion and that does not mean that the Chinese are “funding America” or that they indirectly control the US. It is true that if China decides to sell the US bonds, it will bring down the dollar, causing inflationary pressures on the US economy, but such a move will also harm Chinese exports. The long and short of the matter is that the economies of the US and China are so entwined that neither country can harm the other without harming itself.
一些人总喜欢说中国借钱给美国，是美国的债主。这也再次说明他们对经济缺乏理解，美国的总债务为15.7万亿美元，中国投资者拥有仅仅超过1万亿美元而靠这个说明“中国人是美国的债主”或者“中国人间接控制了美国”显然是不足够的。但如果中国打算抛售美国的债券，的确是会使美元贬值，给美国经济带来通货膨胀的压力。但这种行为也会损害中国的出口。无论是长期还是近期，美国和中国的经济是紧紧缠绕在一起的，无论是谁都无法在不伤害到自己的情况下损害对方。
There seems to be a belief (or maybe it’s a hope?) that the Chinese will, one day, “take over” from the US, destroying their economy in the process. Indeed, one comes across many youngsters (and some older men too) using various profanities to describe what China will do to the US! After the Global Financial Meltdown in 2008, many believed that the Chinese wanted to “de-throne” the US Dollar, but four years down the line, the Dollar is still going strong. In fact, China is highly anxious to keep the Dollar stable because it holds trillions of dollars in reserve. In the same way, they are anxious that the US and Eurozone economies remain stable (and continue to grow) because the alternative would be a global recession that would take down China too. Therefore, it is naïve to think that the Chinese wish to somehow harm the Western economies.
“中国逐渐有一天会从美国手里接管世界，摧毁美国的经济”似乎成了一种信仰（或者是希望）。确实，很多年轻人（也有一些老年人）用各种不同的不敬言论描绘中国会对美国怎么样怎么样。在2008年全球金融危机之后，很多人相信中国想把美元拉下世界通用货币的王座。事实上，中国急于希望美元保持稳定因为她拥有上万亿的美元债券。同样的，美国和欧元区的经济保持稳定（继续增长）也会使中国感到焦虑因为这种交替会造成全球衰退，击倒中国。因此，认为中国想用什么方式破坏西方的经济的想法太天真了。
Coming to the second point, some people think (or again maybe they hope) that China will always take Pakistan’s side against the US and India. Now, this springs from the belief, deeply rooted in Pakistani minds that India and the US are their sworn enemies and always on the lookout for opportunities to hurt Pakistan. This isn’t true, but even if it were its naive to think that China will ever back Pakistan against India or the US. The reason is simple: Money. The US-Sino trade in 2011 was almost $500 billion dollars, while Chinese trade with India was around $75 Billion at the same time. Moreover, Chinese trade with India is expected to reach $100 billion by 2015.
再有，一些人认为（或者是希望）中国总会站在巴基斯坦这边，对抗美国和印度。现在，这种从信仰中生根发芽出来的观点深深植入巴基斯坦人心中，而印度和美国则是巴基斯坦人的死敌，总是寻找机会攻击巴基斯坦。这是不对的。即使巴基斯坦人天真地这么认为，而中国会永远站在巴基斯坦的身后，对抗印度和美国的原因也很简单：为了钱。2011年中美贸易额达到5000亿美元，中印贸易额达到750亿美元且到2015有望达到1000亿美元。
In recent years, there has been a marked improvement in Sino-Indian relations, so much so that China has called it the most “important bilateral relationship of the 21st century”. They have made progress in solving their border dispute and at the second BRICS summit in 2011, the two decided to re-store defense cooperation. China has also vowed to help India balance its trade deficit.
近年来，中印关系有明显改善，以至于中国把这种进步称之为“21世纪重要的双边关系”。他们在解决边界争端中取得了进步。在2011年的第二次金砖国会议上，两国决定重启国防合作。中国也许诺帮助印度平衡它的贸易赤字。
There is no doubt that China is a close ally of ours, but it is wrong to expect that they will ever put Pakistan before either India or the US. The nuclear armed neighbors are aware of their rising status in the world both recognize the huge potential for further trade and economic development. Even now, China is India’s biggest trading partner.
毫无疑问，中国是我们亲近的盟友，但期望他们中国人永远在考虑和印美的利益之前先考虑巴基斯坦的利益是错误的想法。中印这两个核武国家都清楚地认识到他们的国际地位正在上升，也承认进一步贸易带来经济发展的巨大潜力。甚至现在，中国是印度最大的贸易伙伴。
In the Grand Scheme of things, India is far more important to China than Pakistan is and it’s high time we understand this. Right now, we need to stop looking for a patron, be it the US or China and instead concentrate on getting out economy out of the ditch. And no one else, not even China, is going to do this for us.
在这宏伟的计划中，对中国来说，印度比巴基斯坦更加重要。是我们认清这些事实的时候了，我们需要停止寻找保护者，不管是美国还是中国。巴基斯坦应该集中精力把我们的经济从困境中拯救出来。而这一点，没有人会为我们做，即使是中国。
评论：
评论：
Atif Supermacy      居住地：未知
There are no eternal friends and enemies in any foreign policy of a country. one should remember it as a basic fact among the relations between nations. China mainly believe in dialogues rather wars or battles as china's economy is growing they need more market as Pakistan's total market has been hijack by china now India would be better option for them and also they want to settle down all the disputes with India as US did with Canada. So China would be next Super power.
一个国家所有的对外政策中，都有“没有永远的朋友也没有永远的敌人”这一条名言。我们应该知道在国际交往中这是基本的事实。中国依靠对话来处理对外关系而非战争或争执，因为中国经济正在发展中，他们需要更多市场。巴基斯坦所有的市场都被中国劫持了。现在印度对中国来说是更好的选择。他们想要平息和印度的争端，就像美国和加拿大所做的那样。所以，中国会是下一个超级大国。
Bilal Hassan   居住地：拉合尔（巴基斯坦的一个城市）
before i comment on that thread i give reference from what ISLAM says...
Yahood o Nisara kabhi tumharay dost nhi ho skte...kafir musalman ka aur musalman kafir ka dost nhi ho skta....
now i give you my opinion, you are damn right...people of this country must come out of illusion that china is Pakistan's intimate friend and will always come to help us...
chinese have their own axe to grind, they are now going to kick off a new bilateral relationship with indians to reap economic benefits...
and who says that China is a major economic and regional power and will surpass US in every terms...Dont baffle us..
now Saudi Arabians have over 5 trillion $ of investment in US and it is said that if they take out that investment the US will fall like WTC, that's why the most privileged people in US are Saudi Arabians...
China is only good at copying nothing else...
在我评论之前，先引用伊斯兰教徒说的一句话：Yahood o Nisara kabhi tumharay dost nhi ho skte...kafir musalman ka aur musalman kafir ka dost nhi ho skta....（这，不在我的能力之内了）   现在，我说一下我的观点，你对极了。巴基斯坦人必须从“中国是巴基斯坦的亲密盟友，他们总会来帮助我们的”这种错误观念中清醒过来。中国有他们自己的事要做，他们正在打算和印度开始新的双边关系以获得经济利益。而那些说中国是重视经济的区域性大国，总有一天会在任何方面都超过美国的人，别来迷惑我们。沙特阿拉伯现在在美国有超过5万亿美元的投资。据说，如果沙特阿拉伯人撤走在美国的投资，美国就会像世界贸易中心（就911事件被撞的楼）那样陨落。这就是在美国有最多特权的那群人都是沙特阿拉伯人的原因。而中国除了山寨什么都不会。
Hassan02                           居住地：unknown
引用Bilal  Hassan的话：
“Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan
and who says that China is a major economic and regional power and will surpass US in every terms...Dont baffle us..
而那些说中国是重视经济的区域性大国，总有一天会在任何方面都超过美国的人，别来迷惑我们”
回复 Bilal  Hassan：  
Right. China's growth rate is around 10% right now, but a great deal of that growth is due to undervalued yuan that makes Chinese exports more competitive. Plus, if the construction bubble bursts (and it will according to Jim Chanos), it will have a disastrous impact on the Chinese economy.
你说得对，中国现在的增长速度在10%左右。这得益于估价过低的人民币提升了中国出口商品的竞争力。再加上，如果房产泡沫破裂（据Jim Chanos所说的那样），中国的经济就会受到灾难性的影响。【译者的话：Jim Chanos，华尔街人士，主业是“唱空中国”发表“中国就不了世界”啦blabla之类的言论】
http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-ch...a-bubble-10610 （这个评论者自己发的经济周刊的链接）
引用：
“now Saudi Arabians have over 5 trillion $ of investment in US and it is said that if they take out that investment the US will fall like WTC, that's why the most privileged people in US are Saudi Arabians...
China is only good at copying nothing else...沙特阿拉伯现在在美国有超过5万亿美元的投资。据说，如果沙特阿拉伯人撤走在美国的投资，美国就会像世界贸易中心（就911事件被撞的楼）那样陨落。这就是在美国有最多特权的那群人都是沙特阿拉伯人的原因。而中国除了山寨什么都不会。”
回复 Bilal  Hassan：  
Brother I couldn't find the 5 Trillion figure; all I got was that Saudi investment was $400 Billion in 2008. SO maybe its around $500 Billion right now...
兄弟，我找不到你说的“5万亿”这个数据，我找到的数据是“沙特阿拉伯2008年在美国的投资为4亿美元”，所以现在沙特阿拉伯在美国的投资大概是5亿美元左右。
Haroon523                                     居住地：伊斯兰堡
why china should help us ???. we are our own worst enemy. " khuda na aj tak us qoam ki halat nahi badli jis ko khud khayal na ho apni halat Badalna ka " so who are china ???
为什么中国得帮助我们？我们最糟糕的敌人是我们自己。我们都不爱惜自己，敌人就会攻击我们，朋友也不会帮助我们，所以中国的角色是什么？（下划线这句我根据上下文遍的……原文是：khuda na aj tak us qoam ki halat nahi badli jis ko khud khayal na ho apni halat Badalna ka   谁知道是啥意思告诉我一声，不胜感激……）
Assassin007                        居住地：伊斯兰堡
引用原文（太长了，原文在上，就不贴了）
评论：
I won't go in depth. . just take a look over Pakistan's strategic location. . .don't you think one who would be attacking us would also be answerable to other 4 countries, and from those 4 , three are an atomic powers beholding nuclear weapons??? would it be so easy to attack on us?? We are very much blessed because of our location and place where we stand is very much safer in many perspectives. And as far as china's help is concern i think they will help us, recently we have took them in confidence that we will be joining Shanghai Corporation which will be a very fantastic step, though it will create some sort agitation but it nevertheless we will be secured by many of the threats. Don't you think China itself feels threat from US?? Because they aren't much powerful enough to wage any war. So i think they will be helping us and they should. For sake of their own.
我没有细看，仅瞄了一眼关于巴基斯坦战略位置。你难道不认为，要攻击我们国家的人得给其他4个国家一个交代吗？而且在那4个国家中，有3个是拥有核武器的原子能国家？要攻击我们有那么容易吗？我们的位置，我们生活的地方从很多角度上来说都十分安全，我们是多么幸福啊。要是只谈中国的帮助，我认为他们会帮助我们的。最近，我们得到了他们的信任，正在加入上海合作组织，这将是奇妙的一步。即使会引起一些骚动，然而我们却因为来自美国的威胁而被中国保护着。你难道不认为中国正感到来自美国的威胁吗？因为中国还不够强大，还没法城市任何一场战争，所以，为了他们自己，他们会来也应该来帮助巴基斯坦。

Bilal  Hassan
引用：assassin007全部原文：（就在上面，不贴了啊），回复assassin007：
Brother china can only help Pakistan start some infrastructure development projects like construction and maintenance of silk route and that was also for her own sake as all trade to Pakistan is done through that road...and as far as our own security is concerned...May ALLAH be withus, we don't need anyone else to save us, we can give a solid punch to any aggressor no matter whoever he is...this is exactly what Pak Army did, when coward Americans called the air support to cover the damage they received by Pak Army, you will come to know the whole story of salala attack...it has been disclosed by a highly official of Army at GHQ...
中国只会帮巴基斯坦弄一些基础设施的建设和丝绸之路的维护之类的。而这也只是为了她的贸易，因为和巴基斯坦所有贸易都是通过这条路进行的。而关于我们的安全，真主保佑我们，我们不需要别人来救我们，我们可以给任何侵略者沉重的打击，而军方也是这么做的。当美国那个懦夫叫来空军援助被巴基斯坦破坏的地方的时候，你就能知道美国被群殴的整个过程了。这是盟军军方最高总司令部官方曝光过的。
Hassan02
引用：
“Originally Posted by assassin007
I won't go in depth. . just take a look over Pakistan's strategic location. . .don't you think one who would be attacking us would also be answerable to other 4 countries, and from those 4 , three are an atomic powers beholding nuclear weapons??? would it be so easy to attack on us?? We are very much blessed because of our location and place where we stand is very much safer in many perspectives.我没有细看，仅瞄了一眼关于巴基斯坦战略位置。你难道不认为，要攻击我们国家的人得给其他4个国家一个交代吗？而且在那4个国家中，有3个是拥有核武器的原子能国家？要攻击我们有那么容易吗？我们的位置，我们生活的地方从很多角度上来说都十分安全，我们是多么幸福啊。”
回复 assassin007：
I was not talking about a military threat per se, but now that you mention it, I think China will steer clear of any conflict involving Pakistan and India or the US. First, there's a very, very small chance that war will break out between Pakistan and India or the USA. And if there is a military confrontation, China would not want to alienate either India or the USA (or Pakistan). But this is pure speculations and as I said, there's no chance of war at all.

In the article, I was only trying to drive home the point that we Pakistanis should get out of the illusion that China is our best buddy and will put Pakistan above everyone else.
In the article, I was only trying to drive home the point that we Pakistanis should get out of the illusion that China is our best buddy and will put Pakistan above everyone else.
我本身没有谈到军事威胁神马的，不过既然你提到了，我就说一下，我认为中国会避开任何涉及巴基斯坦和美国或者巴基斯坦与印度冲突的话题的。原因其一，巴印，巴美之间爆发战争的可能性十分十分小。其二，如果真的发生了军事对峙，中国不想破坏和印度，美国（或者巴基斯坦）的关系。但这只是纯推测，毕竟就像我说过的那样，战争的可能性很小。
在我的文章中，我只想说清楚的是我们巴基斯坦应该从“中国是我们最好的朋友，她会把我们置于任何人之上”的幻想中清醒过来。
引用：“
Don't you think China itself feels threat from US?? Because they aren't much powerful enough to wage any war. So i think they will be helping us and they should. For sake of their own.你难道不认为中国正感到来自美国的威胁吗？因为中国还不够强大，还没法城市任何一场战争，所以，为了他们自己，他们会来也应该来帮助巴基斯坦。”
回复 assassin007：
Brother China does not WANTto wage war.
兄弟，中国不想要战争。
Courageneverdies      居住地：天国（= =||||）
评论：
The 'trend' of fighting wars openly with multiple nations involved as in World Wars I & II is now obsolete. Powers are more interested in destabilizing each other by means of proxy wars. Internal instability of any country is weapon enough to deteriorate a country to a point of breaking apart. US-China relationships are not friendly and to a greater extent hostile as in the Military books and records. However, China , in order to secure her position in the region, would have to take sides if World Powers try to change the status quo of power in Asia generally and South Asia specifically.

As already stated by reverend members, it is a fact that in International Relations no two countries are eternally bound with the relationship of Friendship or Hostility. International Relations are entirely based on mere selfishness and they should be. However, the present circumstances posit that China would back Pakistan in Times of Trouble, not for Pakistan but for herself.

Regards
像世界一战和世界二战那样多个国家公开群殴的方式已经过时了。现在这些大国们喜欢搞代理人战争去拖垮对方。任何一个国家，内部不稳定都是敌人强力的武器，可以恶化一个国家的情况，使之分裂。中美关系并不友好，根据军方的资料和报告，中美关系很大程度上称得上是敌对的。然而，如果这些世界大国们想要改变亚洲，尤其是南亚的现状，中国为了她区域性大国的位置，就必须站队。已经有教会的人分析过，在国际关系中，没有哪两个国家会永远保持在“永远的朋友”或者“永远的敌人”的状态。国际关系完全的由利益决定的，也应该是由利益决定的。然而，现在的情况假定中国会在巴基斯坦遇到麻烦的时候站在巴基斯坦的身后，那也不是为了巴基斯坦，而是为了她自己。
向您致意
Hassan02
引用：“
Originally Posted by courageneverdies
The 'trend' of fighting wars openly with multiple nations involved as in World Wars I & II is now obsolete. Powers are more interested in destabilizing each other by means of proxy wars. Internal instability of any country is weapon enough to deteriorate a country to a point of breaking apart. US-China relationships are not friendly and to a greater extent hostile as in the Military books and records. However, China , in order to secure her position in the region, would have to take sides if World Powers try to change the status quo of power in Asia generally and South Asia specifically.像世界一战和世界二战那样多个国家公开群殴的方式已经过时了。现在这些大国们喜欢搞代理人战争去拖垮对方。任何一个国家，内部不稳定都是敌人强力的武器，可以恶化一个国家的情况，使之分裂。中美关系并不友好，根据军方的资料和报告，中美关系很大程度上称得上是敌对的。然而，如果这些世界大国们想要改变亚洲，尤其是南亚的现状，中国为了她区域性大国的位置，就必须站队。”
回复 courageneverdies

链接：http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-71607-1-2.html原文标题：China Won't Help Us    龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com
原文链接：http://www.cssforum.com.pk/general/discussion/64900-china-wont-help-us.html
原文：
The people of Pakistan seem to be laboring under some delusions regarding China; the first being that it is a superpower on the level of the US and that the West is somehow dependent upon it. The second is that China is Pakistan’s best friend, ever ready to help us against India or the US. Maybe it’s because of China’s amazing growth in the last few years, or maybe Pakistanis just see China as the knight in shining armor who’ll free them from the clutches of the evil USA, but this type of thinking has distorted the world view of not only the common man, but also high profile politicians and even highly educated member of the society.
巴基斯坦人民在中国的迷惑下埋头苦干。一个原因是中国是一个和美国同等级的超级大国，而西方也在眸子程度上依赖她。其二，中国是巴基斯坦最好的朋友，时刻准备好帮助巴基斯坦对付印度和美国。也许是因为中国近些年惊人的成长，也或许是巴基斯坦把中国当成能把他们从邪恶的美国的控制中解放出来的穿着闪亮盔甲的骑士。但，这种观点扭曲了无论是普通人，还是高调的政治家，甚至是社会上受到高等教育的精英们的世界观。
Pseudo intellectuals often try to pass off as fact the claim that the West and especially the US is now economically dependent on China, which is untrue; in fact, it is the other way around. The Chinese economy is driven by exports of consumer goods (it is currently the biggest exporter in the world) and its biggest customer is the Eurozone, followed by the United States. To be fair, both the West and China are dependent to some extent on each other, but maybe dependence is too harsh a word, it would be better to say that they enjoy benefits which wouldn’t be possible without the other i.e. cheap merchandise for the West and a huge market for China.
伪知识分子经常设法把“西方尤其是美国在经济上正依赖着中国”这种论断当做真相。这是不正确的。事实上，还有另一种说法。中国的经济是依靠出口消费品来驱动的（中国现在是世界上最大的出口国），她最大的顾客是欧元区，紧接着是美国。公平地说，西方和中国在某种程度上互相依赖着对方。或许用“依赖”这个次过于严厉了，“他们都享受着只有对方才能带来的好处，即对于西方来说，中国能给给他们带去便宜的商品；对于中国来说，西方是巨大的市场”这种说法更好些。
Some people are fond of claiming that China “funds America” through loans and again this shows a poor understanding of economics. Out of a total US debt of around $15.7 Trillion, Chinese investors own just over $1 Trillion and that does not mean that the Chinese are “funding America” or that they indirectly control the US. It is true that if China decides to sell the US bonds, it will bring down the dollar, causing inflationary pressures on the US economy, but such a move will also harm Chinese exports. The long and short of the matter is that the economies of the US and China are so entwined that neither country can harm the other without harming itself.
一些人总喜欢说中国借钱给美国，是美国的债主。这也再次说明他们对经济缺乏理解，美国的总债务为15.7万亿美元，中国投资者拥有仅仅超过1万亿美元而靠这个说明“中国人是美国的债主”或者“中国人间接控制了美国”显然是不足够的。但如果中国打算抛售美国的债券，的确是会使美元贬值，给美国经济带来通货膨胀的压力。但这种行为也会损害中国的出口。无论是长期还是近期，美国和中国的经济是紧紧缠绕在一起的，无论是谁都无法在不伤害到自己的情况下损害对方。
There seems to be a belief (or maybe it’s a hope?) that the Chinese will, one day, “take over” from the US, destroying their economy in the process. Indeed, one comes across many youngsters (and some older men too) using various profanities to describe what China will do to the US! After the Global Financial Meltdown in 2008, many believed that the Chinese wanted to “de-throne” the US Dollar, but four years down the line, the Dollar is still going strong. In fact, China is highly anxious to keep the Dollar stable because it holds trillions of dollars in reserve. In the same way, they are anxious that the US and Eurozone economies remain stable (and continue to grow) because the alternative would be a global recession that would take down China too. Therefore, it is naïve to think that the Chinese wish to somehow harm the Western economies.
“中国逐渐有一天会从美国手里接管世界，摧毁美国的经济”似乎成了一种信仰（或者是希望）。确实，很多年轻人（也有一些老年人）用各种不同的不敬言论描绘中国会对美国怎么样怎么样。在2008年全球金融危机之后，很多人相信中国想把美元拉下世界通用货币的王座。事实上，中国急于希望美元保持稳定因为她拥有上万亿的美元债券。同样的，美国和欧元区的经济保持稳定（继续增长）也会使中国感到焦虑因为这种交替会造成全球衰退，击倒中国。因此，认为中国想用什么方式破坏西方的经济的想法太天真了。
Coming to the second point, some people think (or again maybe they hope) that China will always take Pakistan’s side against the US and India. Now, this springs from the belief, deeply rooted in Pakistani minds that India and the US are their sworn enemies and always on the lookout for opportunities to hurt Pakistan. This isn’t true, but even if it were its naive to think that China will ever back Pakistan against India or the US. The reason is simple: Money. The US-Sino trade in 2011 was almost $500 billion dollars, while Chinese trade with India was around $75 Billion at the same time. Moreover, Chinese trade with India is expected to reach $100 billion by 2015.
再有，一些人认为（或者是希望）中国总会站在巴基斯坦这边，对抗美国和印度。现在，这种从信仰中生根发芽出来的观点深深植入巴基斯坦人心中，而印度和美国则是巴基斯坦人的死敌，总是寻找机会攻击巴基斯坦。这是不对的。即使巴基斯坦人天真地这么认为，而中国会永远站在巴基斯坦的身后，对抗印度和美国的原因也很简单：为了钱。2011年中美贸易额达到5000亿美元，中印贸易额达到750亿美元且到2015有望达到1000亿美元。
In recent years, there has been a marked improvement in Sino-Indian relations, so much so that China has called it the most “important bilateral relationship of the 21st century”. They have made progress in solving their border dispute and at the second BRICS summit in 2011, the two decided to re-store defense cooperation. China has also vowed to help India balance its trade deficit.
近年来，中印关系有明显改善，以至于中国把这种进步称之为“21世纪重要的双边关系”。他们在解决边界争端中取得了进步。在2011年的第二次金砖国会议上，两国决定重启国防合作。中国也许诺帮助印度平衡它的贸易赤字。
There is no doubt that China is a close ally of ours, but it is wrong to expect that they will ever put Pakistan before either India or the US. The nuclear armed neighbors are aware of their rising status in the world both recognize the huge potential for further trade and economic development. Even now, China is India’s biggest trading partner.
毫无疑问，中国是我们亲近的盟友，但期望他们中国人永远在考虑和印美的利益之前先考虑巴基斯坦的利益是错误的想法。中印这两个核武国家都清楚地认识到他们的国际地位正在上升，也承认进一步贸易带来经济发展的巨大潜力。甚至现在，中国是印度最大的贸易伙伴。
In the Grand Scheme of things, India is far more important to China than Pakistan is and it’s high time we understand this. Right now, we need to stop looking for a patron, be it the US or China and instead concentrate on getting out economy out of the ditch. And no one else, not even China, is going to do this for us.
在这宏伟的计划中，对中国来说，印度比巴基斯坦更加重要。是我们认清这些事实的时候了，我们需要停止寻找保护者，不管是美国还是中国。巴基斯坦应该集中精力把我们的经济从困境中拯救出来。而这一点，没有人会为我们做，即使是中国。
评论：
评论：
Atif Supermacy      居住地：未知
There are no eternal friends and enemies in any foreign policy of a country. one should remember it as a basic fact among the relations between nations. China mainly believe in dialogues rather wars or battles as china's economy is growing they need more market as Pakistan's total market has been hijack by china now India would be better option for them and also they want to settle down all the disputes with India as US did with Canada. So China would be next Super power.
一个国家所有的对外政策中，都有“没有永远的朋友也没有永远的敌人”这一条名言。我们应该知道在国际交往中这是基本的事实。中国依靠对话来处理对外关系而非战争或争执，因为中国经济正在发展中，他们需要更多市场。巴基斯坦所有的市场都被中国劫持了。现在印度对中国来说是更好的选择。他们想要平息和印度的争端，就像美国和加拿大所做的那样。所以，中国会是下一个超级大国。
Bilal Hassan   居住地：拉合尔（巴基斯坦的一个城市）
before i comment on that thread i give reference from what ISLAM says...
Yahood o Nisara kabhi tumharay dost nhi ho skte...kafir musalman ka aur musalman kafir ka dost nhi ho skta....
now i give you my opinion, you are damn right...people of this country must come out of illusion that china is Pakistan's intimate friend and will always come to help us...
chinese have their own axe to grind, they are now going to kick off a new bilateral relationship with indians to reap economic benefits...
and who says that China is a major economic and regional power and will surpass US in every terms...Dont baffle us..
now Saudi Arabians have over 5 trillion $ of investment in US and it is said that if they take out that investment the US will fall like WTC, that's why the most privileged people in US are Saudi Arabians...
China is only good at copying nothing else...
在我评论之前，先引用伊斯兰教徒说的一句话：Yahood o Nisara kabhi tumharay dost nhi ho skte...kafir musalman ka aur musalman kafir ka dost nhi ho skta....（这，不在我的能力之内了）   现在，我说一下我的观点，你对极了。巴基斯坦人必须从“中国是巴基斯坦的亲密盟友，他们总会来帮助我们的”这种错误观念中清醒过来。中国有他们自己的事要做，他们正在打算和印度开始新的双边关系以获得经济利益。而那些说中国是重视经济的区域性大国，总有一天会在任何方面都超过美国的人，别来迷惑我们。沙特阿拉伯现在在美国有超过5万亿美元的投资。据说，如果沙特阿拉伯人撤走在美国的投资，美国就会像世界贸易中心（就911事件被撞的楼）那样陨落。这就是在美国有最多特权的那群人都是沙特阿拉伯人的原因。而中国除了山寨什么都不会。
Hassan02                           居住地：unknown
引用Bilal  Hassan的话：
“Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan
and who says that China is a major economic and regional power and will surpass US in every terms...Dont baffle us..
而那些说中国是重视经济的区域性大国，总有一天会在任何方面都超过美国的人，别来迷惑我们”
回复 Bilal  Hassan：  
Right. China's growth rate is around 10% right now, but a great deal of that growth is due to undervalued yuan that makes Chinese exports more competitive. Plus, if the construction bubble bursts (and it will according to Jim Chanos), it will have a disastrous impact on the Chinese economy.
你说得对，中国现在的增长速度在10%左右。这得益于估价过低的人民币提升了中国出口商品的竞争力。再加上，如果房产泡沫破裂（据Jim Chanos所说的那样），中国的经济就会受到灾难性的影响。【译者的话：Jim Chanos，华尔街人士，主业是“唱空中国”发表“中国就不了世界”啦blabla之类的言论】
http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-ch...a-bubble-10610 （这个评论者自己发的经济周刊的链接）
引用：
“now Saudi Arabians have over 5 trillion $ of investment in US and it is said that if they take out that investment the US will fall like WTC, that's why the most privileged people in US are Saudi Arabians...
China is only good at copying nothing else...沙特阿拉伯现在在美国有超过5万亿美元的投资。据说，如果沙特阿拉伯人撤走在美国的投资，美国就会像世界贸易中心（就911事件被撞的楼）那样陨落。这就是在美国有最多特权的那群人都是沙特阿拉伯人的原因。而中国除了山寨什么都不会。”
回复 Bilal  Hassan：  
Brother I couldn't find the 5 Trillion figure; all I got was that Saudi investment was $400 Billion in 2008. SO maybe its around $500 Billion right now...
兄弟，我找不到你说的“5万亿”这个数据，我找到的数据是“沙特阿拉伯2008年在美国的投资为4亿美元”，所以现在沙特阿拉伯在美国的投资大概是5亿美元左右。
Haroon523                                     居住地：伊斯兰堡
why china should help us ???. we are our own worst enemy. " khuda na aj tak us qoam ki halat nahi badli jis ko khud khayal na ho apni halat Badalna ka " so who are china ???
为什么中国得帮助我们？我们最糟糕的敌人是我们自己。我们都不爱惜自己，敌人就会攻击我们，朋友也不会帮助我们，所以中国的角色是什么？（下划线这句我根据上下文遍的……原文是：khuda na aj tak us qoam ki halat nahi badli jis ko khud khayal na ho apni halat Badalna ka   谁知道是啥意思告诉我一声，不胜感激……）
Assassin007                        居住地：伊斯兰堡
引用原文（太长了，原文在上，就不贴了）
评论：
I won't go in depth. . just take a look over Pakistan's strategic location. . .don't you think one who would be attacking us would also be answerable to other 4 countries, and from those 4 , three are an atomic powers beholding nuclear weapons??? would it be so easy to attack on us?? We are very much blessed because of our location and place where we stand is very much safer in many perspectives. And as far as china's help is concern i think they will help us, recently we have took them in confidence that we will be joining Shanghai Corporation which will be a very fantastic step, though it will create some sort agitation but it nevertheless we will be secured by many of the threats. Don't you think China itself feels threat from US?? Because they aren't much powerful enough to wage any war. So i think they will be helping us and they should. For sake of their own.
我没有细看，仅瞄了一眼关于巴基斯坦战略位置。你难道不认为，要攻击我们国家的人得给其他4个国家一个交代吗？而且在那4个国家中，有3个是拥有核武器的原子能国家？要攻击我们有那么容易吗？我们的位置，我们生活的地方从很多角度上来说都十分安全，我们是多么幸福啊。要是只谈中国的帮助，我认为他们会帮助我们的。最近，我们得到了他们的信任，正在加入上海合作组织，这将是奇妙的一步。即使会引起一些骚动，然而我们却因为来自美国的威胁而被中国保护着。你难道不认为中国正感到来自美国的威胁吗？因为中国还不够强大，还没法城市任何一场战争，所以，为了他们自己，他们会来也应该来帮助巴基斯坦。

Bilal  Hassan
引用：assassin007全部原文：（就在上面，不贴了啊），回复assassin007：
Brother china can only help Pakistan start some infrastructure development projects like construction and maintenance of silk route and that was also for her own sake as all trade to Pakistan is done through that road...and as far as our own security is concerned...May ALLAH be withus, we don't need anyone else to save us, we can give a solid punch to any aggressor no matter whoever he is...this is exactly what Pak Army did, when coward Americans called the air support to cover the damage they received by Pak Army, you will come to know the whole story of salala attack...it has been disclosed by a highly official of Army at GHQ...
中国只会帮巴基斯坦弄一些基础设施的建设和丝绸之路的维护之类的。而这也只是为了她的贸易，因为和巴基斯坦所有贸易都是通过这条路进行的。而关于我们的安全，真主保佑我们，我们不需要别人来救我们，我们可以给任何侵略者沉重的打击，而军方也是这么做的。当美国那个懦夫叫来空军援助被巴基斯坦破坏的地方的时候，你就能知道美国被群殴的整个过程了。这是盟军军方最高总司令部官方曝光过的。
Hassan02
引用：
“Originally Posted by assassin007
I won't go in depth. . just take a look over Pakistan's strategic location. . .don't you think one who would be attacking us would also be answerable to other 4 countries, and from those 4 , three are an atomic powers beholding nuclear weapons??? would it be so easy to attack on us?? We are very much blessed because of our location and place where we stand is very much safer in many perspectives.我没有细看，仅瞄了一眼关于巴基斯坦战略位置。你难道不认为，要攻击我们国家的人得给其他4个国家一个交代吗？而且在那4个国家中，有3个是拥有核武器的原子能国家？要攻击我们有那么容易吗？我们的位置，我们生活的地方从很多角度上来说都十分安全，我们是多么幸福啊。”
回复 assassin007：
I was not talking about a military threat per se, but now that you mention it, I think China will steer clear of any conflict involving Pakistan and India or the US. First, there's a very, very small chance that war will break out between Pakistan and India or the USA. And if there is a military confrontation, China would not want to alienate either India or the USA (or Pakistan). But this is pure speculations and as I said, there's no chance of war at all.

In the article, I was only trying to drive home the point that we Pakistanis should get out of the illusion that China is our best buddy and will put Pakistan above everyone else.
In the article, I was only trying to drive home the point that we Pakistanis should get out of the illusion that China is our best buddy and will put Pakistan above everyone else.
我本身没有谈到军事威胁神马的，不过既然你提到了，我就说一下，我认为中国会避开任何涉及巴基斯坦和美国或者巴基斯坦与印度冲突的话题的。原因其一，巴印，巴美之间爆发战争的可能性十分十分小。其二，如果真的发生了军事对峙，中国不想破坏和印度，美国（或者巴基斯坦）的关系。但这只是纯推测，毕竟就像我说过的那样，战争的可能性很小。
在我的文章中，我只想说清楚的是我们巴基斯坦应该从“中国是我们最好的朋友，她会把我们置于任何人之上”的幻想中清醒过来。
引用：“
Don't you think China itself feels threat from US?? Because they aren't much powerful enough to wage any war. So i think they will be helping us and they should. For sake of their own.你难道不认为中国正感到来自美国的威胁吗？因为中国还不够强大，还没法城市任何一场战争，所以，为了他们自己，他们会来也应该来帮助巴基斯坦。”
回复 assassin007：
Brother China does not WANTto wage war.
兄弟，中国不想要战争。
Courageneverdies      居住地：天国（= =||||）
评论：
The 'trend' of fighting wars openly with multiple nations involved as in World Wars I & II is now obsolete. Powers are more interested in destabilizing each other by means of proxy wars. Internal instability of any country is weapon enough to deteriorate a country to a point of breaking apart. US-China relationships are not friendly and to a greater extent hostile as in the Military books and records. However, China , in order to secure her position in the region, would have to take sides if World Powers try to change the status quo of power in Asia generally and South Asia specifically.

As already stated by reverend members, it is a fact that in International Relations no two countries are eternally bound with the relationship of Friendship or Hostility. International Relations are entirely based on mere selfishness and they should be. However, the present circumstances posit that China would back Pakistan in Times of Trouble, not for Pakistan but for herself.

Regards
像世界一战和世界二战那样多个国家公开群殴的方式已经过时了。现在这些大国们喜欢搞代理人战争去拖垮对方。任何一个国家，内部不稳定都是敌人强力的武器，可以恶化一个国家的情况，使之分裂。中美关系并不友好，根据军方的资料和报告，中美关系很大程度上称得上是敌对的。然而，如果这些世界大国们想要改变亚洲，尤其是南亚的现状，中国为了她区域性大国的位置，就必须站队。已经有教会的人分析过，在国际关系中，没有哪两个国家会永远保持在“永远的朋友”或者“永远的敌人”的状态。国际关系完全的由利益决定的，也应该是由利益决定的。然而，现在的情况假定中国会在巴基斯坦遇到麻烦的时候站在巴基斯坦的身后，那也不是为了巴基斯坦，而是为了她自己。
向您致意
Hassan02
引用：“
Originally Posted by courageneverdies
The 'trend' of fighting wars openly with multiple nations involved as in World Wars I & II is now obsolete. Powers are more interested in destabilizing each other by means of proxy wars. Internal instability of any country is weapon enough to deteriorate a country to a point of breaking apart. US-China relationships are not friendly and to a greater extent hostile as in the Military books and records. However, China , in order to secure her position in the region, would have to take sides if World Powers try to change the status quo of power in Asia generally and South Asia specifically.像世界一战和世界二战那样多个国家公开群殴的方式已经过时了。现在这些大国们喜欢搞代理人战争去拖垮对方。任何一个国家，内部不稳定都是敌人强力的武器，可以恶化一个国家的情况，使之分裂。中美关系并不友好，根据军方的资料和报告，中美关系很大程度上称得上是敌对的。然而，如果这些世界大国们想要改变亚洲，尤其是南亚的现状，中国为了她区域性大国的位置，就必须站队。”
回复 courageneverdies

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