法国工业杂志:印度拟国产的“阵风”大部分工作量将由法 ...

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/05/03 08:46:13
由于战斗机上应用的技术高度复杂,印度订购的126架“阵风”的大部分工作量将由法国公司完成。500家法国公司参与,可望创造7000个工作岗位。

前18架生产将在法国进行,之后印度参与合作的工作量可望达到50%。

法国人的解释:
一、国际惯例,即便是波音和空客,它们生产的飞机也只有15%工作量是自己完成的,其他工作都转包出去了,HAL你不要指望太多

二、印度公司的技术水准不够,然后强调技术转让是逐步的,一口气吃不出胖子

三、法国大师傅会让印度餐馆获益良多,该知足的说

宣布阵风中标后,法国和印度间墨迹了几个月,有些东西还没谈妥

Indian Rafale to be largely produced in France - French industrial magazine

    Because of the technological complexity of the fighter, the majority of the workload in the production of 126 fighter jets to India should be provided by French companies.
    Negotiations continue to go well between teams Dassault Aviation and the Department of Defense Indian to reach an agreement.
    The two partners have not yet converted into a commercial contract and the selection of the Rafale French manufacturer took place in February as the exclusive partner for the acquisition of 126 fighters. Dassault Aviation, is reassuring on the progress of negotiations, highlighting the complexity technical, commercial, legal negotiations of this type.
    Moreover, little industrial filter sharing between the two countries. Only certainty: 18 aircraft will be assembled in the factory Dassault Merignac, Gironde and the remaining 108 in India . However, sources indicate that the French division of labor remain very much in favor of French, even believing that they would keep well over 50% of the associated production of the early years of the future contract. And not on the whole partnership, as it had been previously written in this article.
    That would be good news for the supply chain of a Franco-French Rafale: the manufacturer does indeed appeal almost exclusively to French companies for the production of its combat aircraft. In total, 500 companies participating countries mobilizing about 7,000 jobs.

    THE OBSTACLE OF TECHNOLOGICAL COMPLEXITY
    Several factors could explain this division favorable to French industrialists while the original tender issued by New Delhi included industrial offsets amounting to 50% of the contract value as well as technology transfer.

    First, as for commercial aircraft of type Boeing or Airbus , assembling a fighter is only a modest fraction of the value of the unit, about 15% according to some experts.

    Second Indian companies are far from mastering the technology to produce complex electronic equipment Rafale. Their contribution could therefore be quite limited at first, and organize around elements of the fuselage, the wings, the canopy ... Especially as technology transfer will be gradual. Rather than a comprehensive agreement on all the apparatus, the cooperation will by signing multiple licensing agreements for each aircraft equipment. As to produce sub-critical assemblies of the device as the radar antenna active electronics of Thales , the mastery of these skills appears remote.

    Third, by joining with France and military aircraft manufacturer, the Indian government would seek to benefit from expertise to reorganize its military aircraft industry.
    Discussion points between the Indian and French partners is no lack. What augur yet long months of negotiations before signing the final contract.

以上为Google翻译的英语,法语链接
http://www.usinenouvelle.com/art ... t-en-france.N180558由于战斗机上应用的技术高度复杂,印度订购的126架“阵风”的大部分工作量将由法国公司完成。500家法国公司参与,可望创造7000个工作岗位。

前18架生产将在法国进行,之后印度参与合作的工作量可望达到50%。

法国人的解释:
一、国际惯例,即便是波音和空客,它们生产的飞机也只有15%工作量是自己完成的,其他工作都转包出去了,HAL你不要指望太多

二、印度公司的技术水准不够,然后强调技术转让是逐步的,一口气吃不出胖子

三、法国大师傅会让印度餐馆获益良多,该知足的说

宣布阵风中标后,法国和印度间墨迹了几个月,有些东西还没谈妥

Indian Rafale to be largely produced in France - French industrial magazine

    Because of the technological complexity of the fighter, the majority of the workload in the production of 126 fighter jets to India should be provided by French companies.
    Negotiations continue to go well between teams Dassault Aviation and the Department of Defense Indian to reach an agreement.
    The two partners have not yet converted into a commercial contract and the selection of the Rafale French manufacturer took place in February as the exclusive partner for the acquisition of 126 fighters. Dassault Aviation, is reassuring on the progress of negotiations, highlighting the complexity technical, commercial, legal negotiations of this type.
    Moreover, little industrial filter sharing between the two countries. Only certainty: 18 aircraft will be assembled in the factory Dassault Merignac, Gironde and the remaining 108 in India . However, sources indicate that the French division of labor remain very much in favor of French, even believing that they would keep well over 50% of the associated production of the early years of the future contract. And not on the whole partnership, as it had been previously written in this article.
    That would be good news for the supply chain of a Franco-French Rafale: the manufacturer does indeed appeal almost exclusively to French companies for the production of its combat aircraft. In total, 500 companies participating countries mobilizing about 7,000 jobs.

    THE OBSTACLE OF TECHNOLOGICAL COMPLEXITY
    Several factors could explain this division favorable to French industrialists while the original tender issued by New Delhi included industrial offsets amounting to 50% of the contract value as well as technology transfer.

    First, as for commercial aircraft of type Boeing or Airbus , assembling a fighter is only a modest fraction of the value of the unit, about 15% according to some experts.

    Second Indian companies are far from mastering the technology to produce complex electronic equipment Rafale. Their contribution could therefore be quite limited at first, and organize around elements of the fuselage, the wings, the canopy ... Especially as technology transfer will be gradual. Rather than a comprehensive agreement on all the apparatus, the cooperation will by signing multiple licensing agreements for each aircraft equipment. As to produce sub-critical assemblies of the device as the radar antenna active electronics of Thales , the mastery of these skills appears remote.

    Third, by joining with France and military aircraft manufacturer, the Indian government would seek to benefit from expertise to reorganize its military aircraft industry.
    Discussion points between the Indian and French partners is no lack. What augur yet long months of negotiations before signing the final contract.

以上为Google翻译的英语,法语链接
http://www.usinenouvelle.com/art ... t-en-france.N180558
印度人可能认为好事多磨,不过其决心也可见一斑。
当初有分析说阵风入选是技术转让程度高,看来不是那回事啊
真还不如买F-35呢
太正常了,高技术工人可不是几年就能练出来的。
逆天笑 发表于 2012-8-31 19:34
真还不如买F-35呢
高见
全球最佳客户奖得主----------三哥
谁搞的懂呢,不是说啊三还能造毛子五代机吗,既然这样还没什么阵风,太搞了
应该还没签合同吧,法国就指望砍三哥一刀好收回成本啊,之前一架都没卖出去~达索这肯定磨刀霍霍啊,看三哥如何应对。以后同志们有戏看了~
organize around elements of the fuselage, the wings, the canopy ...
As to produce sub-critical assemblies of the device as the radar antenna active electronics of Thales , the mastery of these skills appears remote.
高卢:三弟你就生产机身、机翼、座舱里的一些部件就行了...关键子系统,如AESA雷达,以三弟你的技术水平,差的太遥远了

不卖关键技术罢了,还把印度那点工业底子贬的够呛,三哥可忍乎?
公鸡以后不会也学毛子吧,那三哥就欲哭无泪了。
天知道呢,苏-30MKI项目毛子转让的应该比较多,奈何现在印度空军的苏-30MKI仍大半是俄国原产的,如果新一笔42架成交,就是后面印度都国产,俄产的苏-30MKI也会一半。

号称印度国产的苏-30MKI到底成色如何没有靠谱的出处也不好说,之前印度媒体吹上天Dhruv直升机号称也国产,后来质量问题曝光后,被媒体捅出不仅发动机,连90%原材料都要从国外进口。

连T-90坦克国产化都做不利索,至今仍大量进口AK47的国家,高度精密的战斗机国产化哪是那么容易的。

我看法国的算盘自然是先使劲压低技术转让幅度,以后不断敲印度的竹杠

印度幻影2000升级都能敲到每架4000-5000万美元,算上新购弹药单价7500万美元升级一架老幻影,阵风路还长着呢
50%是什么概念?
零件数量的50%?
总重量的50%?
总人工的50%?
总价的505?
落叶无声 发表于 2012-8-31 20:32
公鸡以后不会也学毛子吧,那三哥就欲哭无泪了。
公鸡也是要青出于蓝胜于蓝啊。怎能让毛子专美于前?
落叶无声 发表于 2012-8-31 20:32
公鸡以后不会也学毛子吧,那三哥就欲哭无泪了。
你看毛子的两栖舰被公鸡加价,就知道公鸡会不会坑三哥了……
逆天笑 发表于 2012-8-31 19:28
当初有分析说阵风入选是技术转让程度高,看来不是那回事啊
意料之中的事!
法国佬也应该知足, 做成了这么大笔生意, 赚了一大笔, 不要总是这么贪婪, 这么抠门!
落叶无声 发表于 2012-8-31 20:32
公鸡以后不会也学毛子吧,那三哥就欲哭无泪了。
不宰白不宰,你卖三哥便宜货是瞧不起人家
一口气吃不出胖子
playhappy 发表于 2012-8-31 19:12
印度人可能认为好事多磨,不过其决心也可见一斑。
感觉印度人还在三十到四十年前的土鳖思想框框里转。

顺便求头像名字、地址种子,兄弟你懂的。
还在谈,博弈进行时。但这是个买方市场,三哥的意愿在最终协议上肯定更占优势,尤其还有后续74架的终极诱惑在里面。但最大的疑问在于凭HAL的技术实力得用多久才能消化这一合同。
落叶无声 发表于 2012-8-31 20:32
公鸡以后不会也学毛子吧,那三哥就欲哭无泪了。
别忘了公鸡是怎么坑毛子的,连毛子这种坑人专业户公鸡都敢下手,三哥这种肉靶子怎么可能轻轻放过?
天策府属 发表于 2012-8-31 21:40
还在谈,博弈进行时。但这是个买方市场,三哥的意愿在最终协议上肯定更占优势,尤其还有后续74架的终极诱惑 ...
买方市场不是问题,问题是三哥没那个实力国产化,最后还得求回公鸡。
到时候还不是乖乖伸头挨宰?公鸡想当好人都没机会啊。
nwwind 发表于 2012-8-31 21:03
50%是什么概念?
零件数量的50%?
总重量的50%?
零件数量的50%,1个铆钉算一个,一个雷达也算1个;P
东门吹水 发表于 2012-8-31 21:10
法国佬也应该知足, 做成了这么大笔生意, 赚了一大笔, 不要总是这么贪婪, 这么抠门!
钱,法国人是不会嫌少的,一旦上船我觉得主动权是在法国人手里.

而且,转让即便愿意,也要看双方具体情况,一架战机后面就是一个工业体系,你不能要求法国人把整个工业体系转过去,所以转让一定是在一定程度上的转让,另一方面,也要看受让者的接受能力,如果消化缓慢影响项目进度,法国人相比之下要亏钱的
公鸡早准备好一圈顾问团了,专门负责涨价
国产的“阵风”大部分工作量将由法国方面完成

果然了解三哥啊
逆天笑 发表于 2012-8-31 19:28
当初有分析说阵风入选是技术转让程度高,看来不是那回事啊
就阿三这水平再高也是白搭!给法国人至少飞机质量可以保证!
就算签了合同也一样,三儿的工业基础就那样,高炉鸡想不坑都不行!哈哈哈!
这么说三哥又被香水马扁了
慢慢谈吧
至少印度飞行员可以放点心。如果大部分工作量由hal完成,他们每次起飞前得把后事先交代好。
还在谈,博弈进行时。但这是个买方市场,三哥的意愿在最终协议上肯定更占优势,尤其还有后续74架的终极诱惑 ...
把图纸给他,手把手的教都不会,我估计法国是担心,这些东西给印度,最后都落到兔子手上了。
其实很多时候不是造不了,而是印度自己造成本上不划算。(不光要算人工材料钱,合格率也是关键因素。)
3哥真是好客户
香水的5代机就靠3哥了

3哥为世界航空发展做出的贡献是巨大的
逆天笑 发表于 2012-8-31 19:28
当初有分析说阵风入选是技术转让程度高,看来不是那回事啊
估计比小巴的小龙装配厂强不了多少
跟巴铁的装配工厂比有点埋汰人家巴铁了,看人家HAL的战绩,都快赶上巴铁空军了
hemhem 发表于 2012-8-31 21:06
你看毛子的两栖舰被公鸡加价,就知道公鸡会不会坑三哥了……
公鸡连毛子都敢坑,何况是三哥?
中国天军总司令 发表于 2012-9-1 07:57
估计比小巴的小龙装配厂强不了多少
感觉差不多