超级军网【美国NPR】阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好是坏
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/26 21:04:03
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Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
----The Arab Spring: One Year Later
January 9, 2012
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好是坏？
----阿拉伯之春：一年之后
1月9日，2012
【原文来自美国NPR news，http://www.npr.org/2012/01/09/14 ... -or-bad-for-the-u-s，仅看标题就知道，什么民主自由普世价值都是幌子，利益才是真的】
The Arab Spring was misnamed from the start. It was more like a political earthquake than a season of revolt — and the ground is still shaking. Of 22 Arab countries, only three autocrats have been fully ousted, and the uprisings have hardly run their course.
Ask if the changes taking place are good or bad for the U.S., and you often get a different question in return.
"Well, I think it's almost like saying, 'Is a natural disaster good or bad for America?' It just happened. I mean, there's not that much ...there's nothing that we can do about it," says Greg Gause, who specializes in Middle East politics at the University of Vermont. "And so the question is not so much is it good for us or is it bad for us — the question is, 'How do we react to it?' "
The initial reaction was optimistic. President Obama said the uprising on Cairo's Tahrir Square presented a historic opportunity. But the darker days that followed in Egypt, Libya and Syria have tempered the response.
阿拉伯之春天从一开始就名不副实。对比起义之季，它更像是一场政治地震--地面依然还在颤抖。22个阿拉伯国家中，只有三个独裁者已被完全推翻，而起义者已经很难自给自足。
如果要问正在发生的变化对美国是好还是坏，你经常会得到一个不同的答案。
“嗯，我觉得它就好像说，‘自然灾害是美国好还是坏？’它只是发生了。我的意思是，对它，我们无法做那么多......我们无法做任何事情。”格雷格-佛蒙特大学中东政治专家，说：“所以问题不在于这是对我们有好处，或者是有害处 - 问题是，我们如何应对？”
最初的反应是乐观的。奥巴马总统说，在开罗的塔里尔广场上的起义，是一个历史性的机遇。但随后发生在埃及，利比亚和叙利亚的黑暗给了一记狠狠的回击。
照片说明：美国仍在试图中东瞬息万变的政治中制订新的政策。照片里是，10月18日身为美国国务卿
的希拉里·克林顿与在首都的黎波里的访问中与推翻卡扎菲的利比亚战士站在一起
A November poll showed most U.S. voters don't see the political changes in countries like Egypt as good for America. Even fewer expect the new leaders to become allies now that some long-term American allies are gone.
"The revolution, from the beginning, has caught the U.S. off guard, and they were revolutions against U.S. strongmen," says Khaled Fahmy, chairman of the history department at the American University in Cairo.
11月的民意调查显示，大多数美国选民并不认为发生在一些国家，如埃及的政治变革对美国有利。甚至更少的人希望新的领导人成为盟友，而一些美国的长期盟友都不见了。
“革命，从一开始，就使美国猝不及防，他们的革命反对强权的美国，”哈立德·法赫米说，他是在开罗的美国大学的历史系主席。
He describes this period as a historical shift comparable to the Arab revolts of the last century — the Lawrence of Arabia moment, he calls it. Then, it was a revolt against the Ottoman Empire. This time, the target is an American system of alliances that depended on cooperative dictators. This time, it's also about a younger generation that wants a voice.
"Now, all of a sudden now, we have a new player," he says. "It's not Islamists, as such. It's the people. And I think that is the biggest challenge as far as the U.S. is concerned — new players on the block that they haven't really heard or even accounted for before."
他称这个时期是与上个世纪的阿拉伯起义- 劳伦斯阿拉伯的时刻类似的历史性的转变。然后，那时，它是一个反对奥斯曼帝国的起义；这一次，目标是依赖合作的独裁者的美国联盟系统，这一次，它也是年轻一代希望表达自己想法【的起义】。
“现在，突然，我们有了一个新的玩家，”他说，“不是伊斯兰教徒，而是它的人民。我觉得对美国而言这是最大的挑战- 没有听说过甚至作出说明【？？】的新的玩家。”
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Islamists Win At The Polls
伊斯兰在投票中获胜
For the first time, what "the people" have to say is expressed at the ballot box.
In Tunisia, voter turnout in October was near 90 percent in some areas. But even in this most secular and Western-leaning country, Islamists emerged as the most organized political force, which raises the question: How much democracy in the Middle East is good for the United States?
"Overall, I think it's good. People really want to be free, and in the long term, democracy and a greater freedom will come about in the Middle East. In the interim, there may be some difficult days," says Thomas Henriksen, who writes about American power.
第一次，那些人民【指上文】在投票箱前表达自己。
在突尼斯，一些地区的十月的选民投票率接近90％。但即使在这最世俗和亲西方的国家，伊斯兰教徒都成为最有组织的政治力量，这提出了一个问题：在中东，怎样程度的民主是多对美国有利的？
“总的来说，我认为结果是好的。人民真心渴望自由，而且从长远来看，民主和更大程度的自由的在中东出现。在此期间，可能有一些难熬的日子，”托马斯·亨里克森，《美国力量》的作者说。
In Henriksen's office at Stanford University, a large bust of Ronald Reagan sits amoung his books. For Henriksen, freedom is the highest American value, and American interests will have to adapt.
"It was always a bit strained to deal with only a dictator," he says. "It was always too narrow a base to put our policy on."
Yet for decades, dictators delivered a relatively stable and predictable region. American foreign policy priorities like a reliable flow of oil, a relatively secure Israel, and a check on radical regimes and groups were met, more or less. We got what we needed, says Steven Cook at the Council on Foreign Relations.
"Yes, we can all feel warm and fuzzy about democracy in the region, but we also have to recognize that it's all not going to work out very well for us," he says. "There is going to be new and different challenges ahead for the United States with a more open and democratic Middle East."
在斯坦福大学的亨里克森办公室中，一个很大的罗纳德·里根的半身雕像放置在他的书中间。
【译者注：罗纳德·威尔逊·里根，美国政治家，第33任加利福尼亚州州长，第40任总统（1981年-1989年）】
对亨里克森来说，自由是美国的最高价值观，因此美国的利益将不得不调整。
“对待一个独裁者总是会有一点勉强【指传播自由的价值观】，”他说。 “灌输我们的政策的基础非常狭窄。”
然而，几十年来，独裁者提供了一个相对稳定和可预见的地区。在美国外交政策中有优先权的方面，如可靠的石油来源，一个相对安全的以色列和对激进政权和团体的检查，或多或少都得到了满足。“我们得到了我们所需要的”史蒂芬·库克，外交关系委员会的一个成员说。
“是的，我们都可以在该地区感到温和舒适的民主，但我们也必须承认，对我们来说这一切并不会运转的很好，”他说。“马上在美国面前将会有一个新的不同的挑战，即一个更加开放和民主的中东。”
【译者注：这一部分理解的不是很好，感觉未必表达出了原意，有可能某些地方理解错误】
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Reconsidering Egypt
对埃及的反思
The biggest challenge by far is in Egypt, where the U.S. still sends $1.3 billion in aid each year.
In parliamentary elections, Egyptians delivered a strong victory to the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group that pledges to build a modern democracy. But it's foreign policy outlook is less to America's liking than that of Hosni Mubarak's regime.
In a major shift, the Obama administration has opened the first high-level dialogue with Egypt's Islamists. It is a reflection of the new political realities in the region, says Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Center in Doha, Qatar.
"I think there is a growing perception in the Arab world that the U.S. is a power in decline and that it doesn't have as much influence and leverage as it used to," he says. "And for that reason, they don't have to listen to the U.S.; they can defy the U.S."
迄今为止最大的挑战是在埃及，在那里美国仍然每年提供1.3亿美元的援助。
在议会选举中，埃及人表现出了对MSL兄弟会 - 一个承诺建立一个现代民主社会的伊斯兰组织 - 的强力的拥护。但它的外交政策的前景相对胡斯尼·穆巴拉克政权来说，并不符合美国的喜好。【胡斯尼·穆巴拉克，埃及前总统，2011年下台，随后接受审判】
作为一个重大转变，奥巴马政府开辟了与埃及的伊斯兰主义的第一次高级别对话。这是对该地区新的政治现实的反映，沙迪·哈米德，在卡塔尔多哈的布鲁金斯的一成员说。
“我认为，在阿拉伯世界，有越来越多的人们认为美国是一个衰退中的国家，它不会有像以前一样的影响力，”他说。“出于这个原因，他们可以不听美国的，甚至他们可以藐视美国。”
【布鲁金斯，美国一家十分著名的策略研究机构，个人认为其政治倾向偏右，号称自由主义但拥有强烈的实用主义风格】
That's because the Arab world is writing its own history again. The first chapter is about domestic politics, propelled by a popular demand for more accountable governments. Public opinion is going to count, says Greg Gause, at a time when anti-American sentiments are high.
"Now, if you ask me, is the Arab Spring good for America or bad for America, I'd have to say in the short-term, it's bad for America," Gause says.
His policy advice — and the title of his most recent piece on foreign policy — comes from Alice in Wonderland, in a saying by the White Rabbit: "Don't just do something; stand there."
"My policy advice is not to overreact, to not try to direct this in a certain way," he says. "Because I don't think we have the power, I don't think we have the local allies, and until the dust settles, and until they have stable governments that then are going to engage in their own foreign policies, perhaps the best thing we can do is let that happen."
It was the power of American technology that helped drive the revolts — Google, Facebook and Twitter — and shared American values that shaped the demands of the demonstrators. Now, the question of American interests will be determined, in part, by a new Middle East that is likely to be more democratic, more Islamist and perhaps more volatile than ever.
这是因为阿拉伯世界再次书写自己的历史。第一章是有关国内政治，被民众对一个更负责任的政府的要求所推动。“舆论在计算”【不明白】，高斯格雷格说，此时反美情绪很高。
“现在，如果你问我，阿拉伯之春对美国好还是不好，我不得不说，在短期，这对美国是不利的，”高斯说。
他的政策建议 – 也是他在外交政策上的最新一部分 - 来自爱丽丝仙境，他的说法就像白兔的一样：“不要做些什么，站在那里。”
“我的政策建议，不是反应过度，也不是不试图引导它进入正轨，”他说。 “因为我不认为我们有能力，有当地的盟友，直到尘埃落定，直到他们有稳定的可以随后制定自己外交政策的政府，也许我们所能做的最好的就是让这种事情发生。”
是美国的技术力量帮助推动了起义 - Google，Facebook和Twitter – 以及共享的美国的价值观，形成了表威者的要求。现在，有关美国的利益的问题将会被在某种程度上一个新的- 很可能是更加民主，更加伊斯兰以及也许比以往任何时候都更加动荡 – 的中东来决定。
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评论按支持数递减
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Marie Arouet (FrancoisMarie) wrote:
American interests clashes with "American Ideals".
美国喜欢号称“美国理想”的冲突。
Fred Nietzsche (FredNietzsche) wrote:
I think the question that the title should ask is: "Is the Arab Spring good or bad for Arabs?"
And the answer would be, good!
I don't believe it is appropriate to ask it any other way, especially considering they were OUR dictators and they used OUR tear gas.
我认为文章的标题应该是：“阿拉伯之春对阿拉伯好还是不好？”
答案会是，好！
我不认为其他方式【的问法】是合适的，尤其考虑到他们是我们的独裁者且用我们的催泪瓦斯。【这个不明白】
Willy Roentgen (X-Ray2) wrote:
It seems every change in the Middle East advances a party, or political system which is less friendly to the U.S.. and the West, than what was replaced. And our blind support of Israel is one of the reasons for it. Israel is not a good ally of the U.S. and we should only support it insofar as their policies and actions are also in our national interests. A country which consistently ignores our counsel, attacks all its neighbors, uses the military power we give them to bully other nations and even attacks U.S. naval vessels in international waters is not our friend.
似乎在中东的每一个变化，都推动了那些比起被推翻的政权，对美国和西方更不友好的党派和政权。我们盲目支持以色列是原因之一。以色列不是一个好的美国盟友，我们应该只支持它的那些符合我们国家利益的政策和行动。一个一贯无视我们的忠告，攻击其所有邻国，使用我们给的军事力量欺负其他国家，甚至攻击美国海军在国际水域的舰船的国家不是我们的朋友。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
@ Jack
You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between terrorists motivated by their interpretation of Islam and the overwhelming majority of Arabs and Muslims. Don't overgeneralize, it's bad reasoning.
When I look at the history of the past 10 years I see way too many people who call themselves Christans, Muslims, and Jews engaged in horrendous acts of violence, which if there were a just God, would put their souls in serious danger.
It's enough to make someone agnostic or atheist.
似乎也很难区分那些被伊斯兰教义驱动的恐怖分子和那些绝大多数的阿拉伯人和MSL。不要太笼统的进行概括，那是失败的推理。
当我看过去10年来的历史，我看到太多的人，他们自称Christans【不懂，觉得应该是Christians-基督徒】，MSL，犹太人却从事骇人听闻的暴力行为，如果有一个公正的上帝，那他们的灵魂都将处于危险之中。
这足以让别的人不可知论者或无神论者【因为恐怖分子并未被上帝惩罚】。
barada nikto (_gort_) wrote:
"Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?"
阿拉伯之春对我们来说是好还是坏？
The Arab spring is not affecting us in our own country ... just our world dominance. How we react to them in their countries will determine wether it is good or bad for us.
在我们自己的国家，阿拉伯之春不会影响我们...它只会影响我们的世界霸主地位。我们对他们的国家做出何种反应将会决定它对我们来说是好还是坏。
Pops Parker (Popps) wrote:
Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
Being on the winning side has allways been profitable and good P.R. And now that Hillary is globe-trotting for photo opportunities and Brownie-points for her upcoming Presidential campain she must decide, whom to include in the picture!
A good rule of thumb should be, that what is good for the average citizen should be good for the US. bringing us in line with practicing what we preach.
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好还是坏？
作为胜利的一方，总是会得到利益和良好的公关。现在，希拉里正在周游全球和人拍照为自己加分，为了她即将举行的总统战役做准备！
一个好的经验法则应该是，什么对平民来说是好的，对美国来说就是好的。去实践我们所宣传的。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
How about the War in Iraq? Many Americans claim to be Christians. America started a War in Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, many of the civilians, many of them by American hands. "Thou shalt not kill".
With regard to the Jews, Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been pretty rotten. There's definitely guilt on both sides there, but Israel is without a doubt the stronger party in that conflict and fully capable of taking over the Palestinian lands, which it seems to be slowly doing.
伊拉克战争怎样？许多美国人自称是基督徒。美国开启了伊拉克的战争，已导致成千上万的人死亡，其中许多是平民，其中许多是被美国人杀死。“不可杀人”
至于犹太人，以色列对待巴勒斯坦人一直非常烂。双方肯定都有过失，但毫无疑问，以色列是是冲突中更强的一方并且它完全有能力接管巴勒斯坦人的土地，而现在去看起来它似乎要慢慢做。
Thomas Coulson (Caddman) wrote:
The concern seems to be more about keeping the flow of oil going than anything else. Oil first, Democracy to the back of the bus.
更加令人关心的不是别的而是如何保持石油产量的。石油第一，民主排在后面。
chris schweder (dannysdad) wrote:
You are wrong. I have friends and business relations that are both Muslim and Jews. They know each other. They get along just fine, but then again, this is America.
The violence is in the Middle east. Have you been there? Have you been an American in an Arab country? If not, save your pennies and take a trip. I'm pretty sure that you will change how you feel.
And oh yes. Could you list those horrible things that Christians and Jews did in the past ten years?
------------------------------
Bush the junior (Christian) declared war on a Nation (Iraq) without provocation, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims in the process.
【前面有人说MSL和犹太人彼此不了解】
您错了。我有朋友和生意伙伴是MSL和犹太人。他们彼此了解。他们相处得很好，但话又说回来，这是美国。
暴力事件发生在中东。你去过那里吗？你作为一个美国人去过阿拉伯国家吗？如果不是，存下钱去一趟。我敢肯定，你会改变你的想法。
【前面有人问】你可以列出那些基督徒和犹太人在过去十多年做的可怕的事情吗？
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
布什（作为基督徒）在对方没有挑衅的情况下对一个国家（伊拉克）宣战，并在这个过程中杀害成千上万无辜的MSL。
Steve Buelte (triangle) wrote:
I hope it’s good for the people in the Middle East.
我只希望这对中东人民来说有好处。
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Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
----The Arab Spring: One Year Later
January 9, 2012
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好是坏？
----阿拉伯之春：一年之后
1月9日，2012
【原文来自美国NPR news，http://www.npr.org/2012/01/09/14 ... -or-bad-for-the-u-s，仅看标题就知道，什么民主自由普世价值都是幌子，利益才是真的】
The Arab Spring was misnamed from the start. It was more like a political earthquake than a season of revolt — and the ground is still shaking. Of 22 Arab countries, only three autocrats have been fully ousted, and the uprisings have hardly run their course.
Ask if the changes taking place are good or bad for the U.S., and you often get a different question in return.
"Well, I think it's almost like saying, 'Is a natural disaster good or bad for America?' It just happened. I mean, there's not that much ...there's nothing that we can do about it," says Greg Gause, who specializes in Middle East politics at the University of Vermont. "And so the question is not so much is it good for us or is it bad for us — the question is, 'How do we react to it?' "
The initial reaction was optimistic. President Obama said the uprising on Cairo's Tahrir Square presented a historic opportunity. But the darker days that followed in Egypt, Libya and Syria have tempered the response.
阿拉伯之春天从一开始就名不副实。对比起义之季，它更像是一场政治地震--地面依然还在颤抖。22个阿拉伯国家中，只有三个独裁者已被完全推翻，而起义者已经很难自给自足。
如果要问正在发生的变化对美国是好还是坏，你经常会得到一个不同的答案。
“嗯，我觉得它就好像说，‘自然灾害是美国好还是坏？’它只是发生了。我的意思是，对它，我们无法做那么多......我们无法做任何事情。”格雷格-佛蒙特大学中东政治专家，说：“所以问题不在于这是对我们有好处，或者是有害处 - 问题是，我们如何应对？”
最初的反应是乐观的。奥巴马总统说，在开罗的塔里尔广场上的起义，是一个历史性的机遇。但随后发生在埃及，利比亚和叙利亚的黑暗给了一记狠狠的回击。
照片说明：美国仍在试图中东瞬息万变的政治中制订新的政策。照片里是，10月18日身为美国国务卿
的希拉里·克林顿与在首都的黎波里的访问中与推翻卡扎菲的利比亚战士站在一起
A November poll showed most U.S. voters don't see the political changes in countries like Egypt as good for America. Even fewer expect the new leaders to become allies now that some long-term American allies are gone.
"The revolution, from the beginning, has caught the U.S. off guard, and they were revolutions against U.S. strongmen," says Khaled Fahmy, chairman of the history department at the American University in Cairo.
11月的民意调查显示，大多数美国选民并不认为发生在一些国家，如埃及的政治变革对美国有利。甚至更少的人希望新的领导人成为盟友，而一些美国的长期盟友都不见了。
“革命，从一开始，就使美国猝不及防，他们的革命反对强权的美国，”哈立德·法赫米说，他是在开罗的美国大学的历史系主席。
He describes this period as a historical shift comparable to the Arab revolts of the last century — the Lawrence of Arabia moment, he calls it. Then, it was a revolt against the Ottoman Empire. This time, the target is an American system of alliances that depended on cooperative dictators. This time, it's also about a younger generation that wants a voice.
"Now, all of a sudden now, we have a new player," he says. "It's not Islamists, as such. It's the people. And I think that is the biggest challenge as far as the U.S. is concerned — new players on the block that they haven't really heard or even accounted for before."
他称这个时期是与上个世纪的阿拉伯起义- 劳伦斯阿拉伯的时刻类似的历史性的转变。然后，那时，它是一个反对奥斯曼帝国的起义；这一次，目标是依赖合作的独裁者的美国联盟系统，这一次，它也是年轻一代希望表达自己想法【的起义】。
“现在，突然，我们有了一个新的玩家，”他说，“不是伊斯兰教徒，而是它的人民。我觉得对美国而言这是最大的挑战- 没有听说过甚至作出说明【？？】的新的玩家。”
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Islamists Win At The Polls
伊斯兰在投票中获胜
For the first time, what "the people" have to say is expressed at the ballot box.
In Tunisia, voter turnout in October was near 90 percent in some areas. But even in this most secular and Western-leaning country, Islamists emerged as the most organized political force, which raises the question: How much democracy in the Middle East is good for the United States?
"Overall, I think it's good. People really want to be free, and in the long term, democracy and a greater freedom will come about in the Middle East. In the interim, there may be some difficult days," says Thomas Henriksen, who writes about American power.
第一次，那些人民【指上文】在投票箱前表达自己。
在突尼斯，一些地区的十月的选民投票率接近90％。但即使在这最世俗和亲西方的国家，伊斯兰教徒都成为最有组织的政治力量，这提出了一个问题：在中东，怎样程度的民主是多对美国有利的？
“总的来说，我认为结果是好的。人民真心渴望自由，而且从长远来看，民主和更大程度的自由的在中东出现。在此期间，可能有一些难熬的日子，”托马斯·亨里克森，《美国力量》的作者说。
In Henriksen's office at Stanford University, a large bust of Ronald Reagan sits amoung his books. For Henriksen, freedom is the highest American value, and American interests will have to adapt.
"It was always a bit strained to deal with only a dictator," he says. "It was always too narrow a base to put our policy on."
Yet for decades, dictators delivered a relatively stable and predictable region. American foreign policy priorities like a reliable flow of oil, a relatively secure Israel, and a check on radical regimes and groups were met, more or less. We got what we needed, says Steven Cook at the Council on Foreign Relations.
"Yes, we can all feel warm and fuzzy about democracy in the region, but we also have to recognize that it's all not going to work out very well for us," he says. "There is going to be new and different challenges ahead for the United States with a more open and democratic Middle East."
在斯坦福大学的亨里克森办公室中，一个很大的罗纳德·里根的半身雕像放置在他的书中间。
【译者注：罗纳德·威尔逊·里根，美国政治家，第33任加利福尼亚州州长，第40任总统（1981年-1989年）】
对亨里克森来说，自由是美国的最高价值观，因此美国的利益将不得不调整。
“对待一个独裁者总是会有一点勉强【指传播自由的价值观】，”他说。 “灌输我们的政策的基础非常狭窄。”
然而，几十年来，独裁者提供了一个相对稳定和可预见的地区。在美国外交政策中有优先权的方面，如可靠的石油来源，一个相对安全的以色列和对激进政权和团体的检查，或多或少都得到了满足。“我们得到了我们所需要的”史蒂芬·库克，外交关系委员会的一个成员说。
“是的，我们都可以在该地区感到温和舒适的民主，但我们也必须承认，对我们来说这一切并不会运转的很好，”他说。“马上在美国面前将会有一个新的不同的挑战，即一个更加开放和民主的中东。”
【译者注：这一部分理解的不是很好，感觉未必表达出了原意，有可能某些地方理解错误】
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Reconsidering Egypt
对埃及的反思
The biggest challenge by far is in Egypt, where the U.S. still sends $1.3 billion in aid each year.
In parliamentary elections, Egyptians delivered a strong victory to the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group that pledges to build a modern democracy. But it's foreign policy outlook is less to America's liking than that of Hosni Mubarak's regime.
In a major shift, the Obama administration has opened the first high-level dialogue with Egypt's Islamists. It is a reflection of the new political realities in the region, says Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Center in Doha, Qatar.
"I think there is a growing perception in the Arab world that the U.S. is a power in decline and that it doesn't have as much influence and leverage as it used to," he says. "And for that reason, they don't have to listen to the U.S.; they can defy the U.S."
迄今为止最大的挑战是在埃及，在那里美国仍然每年提供1.3亿美元的援助。
在议会选举中，埃及人表现出了对MSL兄弟会 - 一个承诺建立一个现代民主社会的伊斯兰组织 - 的强力的拥护。但它的外交政策的前景相对胡斯尼·穆巴拉克政权来说，并不符合美国的喜好。【胡斯尼·穆巴拉克，埃及前总统，2011年下台，随后接受审判】
作为一个重大转变，奥巴马政府开辟了与埃及的伊斯兰主义的第一次高级别对话。这是对该地区新的政治现实的反映，沙迪·哈米德，在卡塔尔多哈的布鲁金斯的一成员说。
“我认为，在阿拉伯世界，有越来越多的人们认为美国是一个衰退中的国家，它不会有像以前一样的影响力，”他说。“出于这个原因，他们可以不听美国的，甚至他们可以藐视美国。”
【布鲁金斯，美国一家十分著名的策略研究机构，个人认为其政治倾向偏右，号称自由主义但拥有强烈的实用主义风格】
That's because the Arab world is writing its own history again. The first chapter is about domestic politics, propelled by a popular demand for more accountable governments. Public opinion is going to count, says Greg Gause, at a time when anti-American sentiments are high.
"Now, if you ask me, is the Arab Spring good for America or bad for America, I'd have to say in the short-term, it's bad for America," Gause says.
His policy advice — and the title of his most recent piece on foreign policy — comes from Alice in Wonderland, in a saying by the White Rabbit: "Don't just do something; stand there."
"My policy advice is not to overreact, to not try to direct this in a certain way," he says. "Because I don't think we have the power, I don't think we have the local allies, and until the dust settles, and until they have stable governments that then are going to engage in their own foreign policies, perhaps the best thing we can do is let that happen."
It was the power of American technology that helped drive the revolts — Google, Facebook and Twitter — and shared American values that shaped the demands of the demonstrators. Now, the question of American interests will be determined, in part, by a new Middle East that is likely to be more democratic, more Islamist and perhaps more volatile than ever.
这是因为阿拉伯世界再次书写自己的历史。第一章是有关国内政治，被民众对一个更负责任的政府的要求所推动。“舆论在计算”【不明白】，高斯格雷格说，此时反美情绪很高。
“现在，如果你问我，阿拉伯之春对美国好还是不好，我不得不说，在短期，这对美国是不利的，”高斯说。
他的政策建议 – 也是他在外交政策上的最新一部分 - 来自爱丽丝仙境，他的说法就像白兔的一样：“不要做些什么，站在那里。”
“我的政策建议，不是反应过度，也不是不试图引导它进入正轨，”他说。 “因为我不认为我们有能力，有当地的盟友，直到尘埃落定，直到他们有稳定的可以随后制定自己外交政策的政府，也许我们所能做的最好的就是让这种事情发生。”
是美国的技术力量帮助推动了起义 - Google，Facebook和Twitter – 以及共享的美国的价值观，形成了表威者的要求。现在，有关美国的利益的问题将会被在某种程度上一个新的- 很可能是更加民主，更加伊斯兰以及也许比以往任何时候都更加动荡 – 的中东来决定。
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评论按支持数递减
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Marie Arouet (FrancoisMarie) wrote:
American interests clashes with "American Ideals".
美国喜欢号称“美国理想”的冲突。
Fred Nietzsche (FredNietzsche) wrote:
I think the question that the title should ask is: "Is the Arab Spring good or bad for Arabs?"
And the answer would be, good!
I don't believe it is appropriate to ask it any other way, especially considering they were OUR dictators and they used OUR tear gas.
我认为文章的标题应该是：“阿拉伯之春对阿拉伯好还是不好？”
答案会是，好！
我不认为其他方式【的问法】是合适的，尤其考虑到他们是我们的独裁者且用我们的催泪瓦斯。【这个不明白】
Willy Roentgen (X-Ray2) wrote:
It seems every change in the Middle East advances a party, or political system which is less friendly to the U.S.. and the West, than what was replaced. And our blind support of Israel is one of the reasons for it. Israel is not a good ally of the U.S. and we should only support it insofar as their policies and actions are also in our national interests. A country which consistently ignores our counsel, attacks all its neighbors, uses the military power we give them to bully other nations and even attacks U.S. naval vessels in international waters is not our friend.
似乎在中东的每一个变化，都推动了那些比起被推翻的政权，对美国和西方更不友好的党派和政权。我们盲目支持以色列是原因之一。以色列不是一个好的美国盟友，我们应该只支持它的那些符合我们国家利益的政策和行动。一个一贯无视我们的忠告，攻击其所有邻国，使用我们给的军事力量欺负其他国家，甚至攻击美国海军在国际水域的舰船的国家不是我们的朋友。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
@ Jack
You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between terrorists motivated by their interpretation of Islam and the overwhelming majority of Arabs and Muslims. Don't overgeneralize, it's bad reasoning.
When I look at the history of the past 10 years I see way too many people who call themselves Christans, Muslims, and Jews engaged in horrendous acts of violence, which if there were a just God, would put their souls in serious danger.
It's enough to make someone agnostic or atheist.
似乎也很难区分那些被伊斯兰教义驱动的恐怖分子和那些绝大多数的阿拉伯人和MSL。不要太笼统的进行概括，那是失败的推理。
当我看过去10年来的历史，我看到太多的人，他们自称Christans【不懂，觉得应该是Christians-基督徒】，MSL，犹太人却从事骇人听闻的暴力行为，如果有一个公正的上帝，那他们的灵魂都将处于危险之中。
这足以让别的人不可知论者或无神论者【因为恐怖分子并未被上帝惩罚】。
barada nikto (_gort_) wrote:
"Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?"
阿拉伯之春对我们来说是好还是坏？
The Arab spring is not affecting us in our own country ... just our world dominance. How we react to them in their countries will determine wether it is good or bad for us.
在我们自己的国家，阿拉伯之春不会影响我们...它只会影响我们的世界霸主地位。我们对他们的国家做出何种反应将会决定它对我们来说是好还是坏。
Pops Parker (Popps) wrote:
Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
Being on the winning side has allways been profitable and good P.R. And now that Hillary is globe-trotting for photo opportunities and Brownie-points for her upcoming Presidential campain she must decide, whom to include in the picture!
A good rule of thumb should be, that what is good for the average citizen should be good for the US. bringing us in line with practicing what we preach.
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好还是坏？
作为胜利的一方，总是会得到利益和良好的公关。现在，希拉里正在周游全球和人拍照为自己加分，为了她即将举行的总统战役做准备！
一个好的经验法则应该是，什么对平民来说是好的，对美国来说就是好的。去实践我们所宣传的。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
How about the War in Iraq? Many Americans claim to be Christians. America started a War in Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, many of the civilians, many of them by American hands. "Thou shalt not kill".
With regard to the Jews, Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been pretty rotten. There's definitely guilt on both sides there, but Israel is without a doubt the stronger party in that conflict and fully capable of taking over the Palestinian lands, which it seems to be slowly doing.
伊拉克战争怎样？许多美国人自称是基督徒。美国开启了伊拉克的战争，已导致成千上万的人死亡，其中许多是平民，其中许多是被美国人杀死。“不可杀人”
至于犹太人，以色列对待巴勒斯坦人一直非常烂。双方肯定都有过失，但毫无疑问，以色列是是冲突中更强的一方并且它完全有能力接管巴勒斯坦人的土地，而现在去看起来它似乎要慢慢做。
Thomas Coulson (Caddman) wrote:
The concern seems to be more about keeping the flow of oil going than anything else. Oil first, Democracy to the back of the bus.
更加令人关心的不是别的而是如何保持石油产量的。石油第一，民主排在后面。
chris schweder (dannysdad) wrote:
You are wrong. I have friends and business relations that are both Muslim and Jews. They know each other. They get along just fine, but then again, this is America.
The violence is in the Middle east. Have you been there? Have you been an American in an Arab country? If not, save your pennies and take a trip. I'm pretty sure that you will change how you feel.
And oh yes. Could you list those horrible things that Christians and Jews did in the past ten years?
------------------------------
Bush the junior (Christian) declared war on a Nation (Iraq) without provocation, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims in the process.
【前面有人说MSL和犹太人彼此不了解】
您错了。我有朋友和生意伙伴是MSL和犹太人。他们彼此了解。他们相处得很好，但话又说回来，这是美国。
暴力事件发生在中东。你去过那里吗？你作为一个美国人去过阿拉伯国家吗？如果不是，存下钱去一趟。我敢肯定，你会改变你的想法。
【前面有人问】你可以列出那些基督徒和犹太人在过去十多年做的可怕的事情吗？
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
布什（作为基督徒）在对方没有挑衅的情况下对一个国家（伊拉克）宣战，并在这个过程中杀害成千上万无辜的MSL。
Steve Buelte (triangle) wrote:
I hope it’s good for the people in the Middle East.
我只希望这对中东人民来说有好处。
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Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
----The Arab Spring: One Year Later
January 9, 2012
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好是坏？
----阿拉伯之春：一年之后
1月9日，2012
【原文来自美国NPR news，http://www.npr.org/2012/01/09/14 ... -or-bad-for-the-u-s，仅看标题就知道，什么民主自由普世价值都是幌子，利益才是真的】
The Arab Spring was misnamed from the start. It was more like a political earthquake than a season of revolt — and the ground is still shaking. Of 22 Arab countries, only three autocrats have been fully ousted, and the uprisings have hardly run their course.
Ask if the changes taking place are good or bad for the U.S., and you often get a different question in return.
"Well, I think it's almost like saying, 'Is a natural disaster good or bad for America?' It just happened. I mean, there's not that much ...there's nothing that we can do about it," says Greg Gause, who specializes in Middle East politics at the University of Vermont. "And so the question is not so much is it good for us or is it bad for us — the question is, 'How do we react to it?' "
The initial reaction was optimistic. President Obama said the uprising on Cairo's Tahrir Square presented a historic opportunity. But the darker days that followed in Egypt, Libya and Syria have tempered the response.
阿拉伯之春天从一开始就名不副实。对比起义之季，它更像是一场政治地震--地面依然还在颤抖。22个阿拉伯国家中，只有三个独裁者已被完全推翻，而起义者已经很难自给自足。
如果要问正在发生的变化对美国是好还是坏，你经常会得到一个不同的答案。
“嗯，我觉得它就好像说，‘自然灾害是美国好还是坏？’它只是发生了。我的意思是，对它，我们无法做那么多......我们无法做任何事情。”格雷格-佛蒙特大学中东政治专家，说：“所以问题不在于这是对我们有好处，或者是有害处 - 问题是，我们如何应对？”
最初的反应是乐观的。奥巴马总统说，在开罗的塔里尔广场上的起义，是一个历史性的机遇。但随后发生在埃及，利比亚和叙利亚的黑暗给了一记狠狠的回击。
照片说明：美国仍在试图中东瞬息万变的政治中制订新的政策。照片里是，10月18日身为美国国务卿
的希拉里·克林顿与在首都的黎波里的访问中与推翻卡扎菲的利比亚战士站在一起
A November poll showed most U.S. voters don't see the political changes in countries like Egypt as good for America. Even fewer expect the new leaders to become allies now that some long-term American allies are gone.
"The revolution, from the beginning, has caught the U.S. off guard, and they were revolutions against U.S. strongmen," says Khaled Fahmy, chairman of the history department at the American University in Cairo.
11月的民意调查显示，大多数美国选民并不认为发生在一些国家，如埃及的政治变革对美国有利。甚至更少的人希望新的领导人成为盟友，而一些美国的长期盟友都不见了。
“革命，从一开始，就使美国猝不及防，他们的革命反对强权的美国，”哈立德·法赫米说，他是在开罗的美国大学的历史系主席。
He describes this period as a historical shift comparable to the Arab revolts of the last century — the Lawrence of Arabia moment, he calls it. Then, it was a revolt against the Ottoman Empire. This time, the target is an American system of alliances that depended on cooperative dictators. This time, it's also about a younger generation that wants a voice.
"Now, all of a sudden now, we have a new player," he says. "It's not Islamists, as such. It's the people. And I think that is the biggest challenge as far as the U.S. is concerned — new players on the block that they haven't really heard or even accounted for before."
他称这个时期是与上个世纪的阿拉伯起义- 劳伦斯阿拉伯的时刻类似的历史性的转变。然后，那时，它是一个反对奥斯曼帝国的起义；这一次，目标是依赖合作的独裁者的美国联盟系统，这一次，它也是年轻一代希望表达自己想法【的起义】。
“现在，突然，我们有了一个新的玩家，”他说，“不是伊斯兰教徒，而是它的人民。我觉得对美国而言这是最大的挑战- 没有听说过甚至作出说明【？？】的新的玩家。”
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Islamists Win At The Polls
伊斯兰在投票中获胜
For the first time, what "the people" have to say is expressed at the ballot box.
In Tunisia, voter turnout in October was near 90 percent in some areas. But even in this most secular and Western-leaning country, Islamists emerged as the most organized political force, which raises the question: How much democracy in the Middle East is good for the United States?
"Overall, I think it's good. People really want to be free, and in the long term, democracy and a greater freedom will come about in the Middle East. In the interim, there may be some difficult days," says Thomas Henriksen, who writes about American power.
第一次，那些人民【指上文】在投票箱前表达自己。
在突尼斯，一些地区的十月的选民投票率接近90％。但即使在这最世俗和亲西方的国家，伊斯兰教徒都成为最有组织的政治力量，这提出了一个问题：在中东，怎样程度的民主是多对美国有利的？
“总的来说，我认为结果是好的。人民真心渴望自由，而且从长远来看，民主和更大程度的自由的在中东出现。在此期间，可能有一些难熬的日子，”托马斯·亨里克森，《美国力量》的作者说。
In Henriksen's office at Stanford University, a large bust of Ronald Reagan sits amoung his books. For Henriksen, freedom is the highest American value, and American interests will have to adapt.
"It was always a bit strained to deal with only a dictator," he says. "It was always too narrow a base to put our policy on."
Yet for decades, dictators delivered a relatively stable and predictable region. American foreign policy priorities like a reliable flow of oil, a relatively secure Israel, and a check on radical regimes and groups were met, more or less. We got what we needed, says Steven Cook at the Council on Foreign Relations.
"Yes, we can all feel warm and fuzzy about democracy in the region, but we also have to recognize that it's all not going to work out very well for us," he says. "There is going to be new and different challenges ahead for the United States with a more open and democratic Middle East."
在斯坦福大学的亨里克森办公室中，一个很大的罗纳德·里根的半身雕像放置在他的书中间。
【译者注：罗纳德·威尔逊·里根，美国政治家，第33任加利福尼亚州州长，第40任总统（1981年-1989年）】
对亨里克森来说，自由是美国的最高价值观，因此美国的利益将不得不调整。
“对待一个独裁者总是会有一点勉强【指传播自由的价值观】，”他说。 “灌输我们的政策的基础非常狭窄。”
然而，几十年来，独裁者提供了一个相对稳定和可预见的地区。在美国外交政策中有优先权的方面，如可靠的石油来源，一个相对安全的以色列和对激进政权和团体的检查，或多或少都得到了满足。“我们得到了我们所需要的”史蒂芬·库克，外交关系委员会的一个成员说。
“是的，我们都可以在该地区感到温和舒适的民主，但我们也必须承认，对我们来说这一切并不会运转的很好，”他说。“马上在美国面前将会有一个新的不同的挑战，即一个更加开放和民主的中东。”
【译者注：这一部分理解的不是很好，感觉未必表达出了原意，有可能某些地方理解错误】
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Reconsidering Egypt
对埃及的反思
The biggest challenge by far is in Egypt, where the U.S. still sends $1.3 billion in aid each year.
In parliamentary elections, Egyptians delivered a strong victory to the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group that pledges to build a modern democracy. But it's foreign policy outlook is less to America's liking than that of Hosni Mubarak's regime.
In a major shift, the Obama administration has opened the first high-level dialogue with Egypt's Islamists. It is a reflection of the new political realities in the region, says Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Center in Doha, Qatar.
"I think there is a growing perception in the Arab world that the U.S. is a power in decline and that it doesn't have as much influence and leverage as it used to," he says. "And for that reason, they don't have to listen to the U.S.; they can defy the U.S."
迄今为止最大的挑战是在埃及，在那里美国仍然每年提供1.3亿美元的援助。
在议会选举中，埃及人表现出了对MSL兄弟会 - 一个承诺建立一个现代民主社会的伊斯兰组织 - 的强力的拥护。但它的外交政策的前景相对胡斯尼·穆巴拉克政权来说，并不符合美国的喜好。【胡斯尼·穆巴拉克，埃及前总统，2011年下台，随后接受审判】
作为一个重大转变，奥巴马政府开辟了与埃及的伊斯兰主义的第一次高级别对话。这是对该地区新的政治现实的反映，沙迪·哈米德，在卡塔尔多哈的布鲁金斯的一成员说。
“我认为，在阿拉伯世界，有越来越多的人们认为美国是一个衰退中的国家，它不会有像以前一样的影响力，”他说。“出于这个原因，他们可以不听美国的，甚至他们可以藐视美国。”
【布鲁金斯，美国一家十分著名的策略研究机构，个人认为其政治倾向偏右，号称自由主义但拥有强烈的实用主义风格】
That's because the Arab world is writing its own history again. The first chapter is about domestic politics, propelled by a popular demand for more accountable governments. Public opinion is going to count, says Greg Gause, at a time when anti-American sentiments are high.
"Now, if you ask me, is the Arab Spring good for America or bad for America, I'd have to say in the short-term, it's bad for America," Gause says.
His policy advice — and the title of his most recent piece on foreign policy — comes from Alice in Wonderland, in a saying by the White Rabbit: "Don't just do something; stand there."
"My policy advice is not to overreact, to not try to direct this in a certain way," he says. "Because I don't think we have the power, I don't think we have the local allies, and until the dust settles, and until they have stable governments that then are going to engage in their own foreign policies, perhaps the best thing we can do is let that happen."
It was the power of American technology that helped drive the revolts — Google, Facebook and Twitter — and shared American values that shaped the demands of the demonstrators. Now, the question of American interests will be determined, in part, by a new Middle East that is likely to be more democratic, more Islamist and perhaps more volatile than ever.
这是因为阿拉伯世界再次书写自己的历史。第一章是有关国内政治，被民众对一个更负责任的政府的要求所推动。“舆论在计算”【不明白】，高斯格雷格说，此时反美情绪很高。
“现在，如果你问我，阿拉伯之春对美国好还是不好，我不得不说，在短期，这对美国是不利的，”高斯说。
他的政策建议 – 也是他在外交政策上的最新一部分 - 来自爱丽丝仙境，他的说法就像白兔的一样：“不要做些什么，站在那里。”
“我的政策建议，不是反应过度，也不是不试图引导它进入正轨，”他说。 “因为我不认为我们有能力，有当地的盟友，直到尘埃落定，直到他们有稳定的可以随后制定自己外交政策的政府，也许我们所能做的最好的就是让这种事情发生。”
是美国的技术力量帮助推动了起义 - Google，Facebook和Twitter – 以及共享的美国的价值观，形成了表威者的要求。现在，有关美国的利益的问题将会被在某种程度上一个新的- 很可能是更加民主，更加伊斯兰以及也许比以往任何时候都更加动荡 – 的中东来决定。
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
评论按支持数递减
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marie Arouet (FrancoisMarie) wrote:
American interests clashes with "American Ideals".
美国喜欢号称“美国理想”的冲突。
Fred Nietzsche (FredNietzsche) wrote:
I think the question that the title should ask is: "Is the Arab Spring good or bad for Arabs?"
And the answer would be, good!
I don't believe it is appropriate to ask it any other way, especially considering they were OUR dictators and they used OUR tear gas.
我认为文章的标题应该是：“阿拉伯之春对阿拉伯好还是不好？”
答案会是，好！
我不认为其他方式【的问法】是合适的，尤其考虑到他们是我们的独裁者且用我们的催泪瓦斯。【这个不明白】
Willy Roentgen (X-Ray2) wrote:
It seems every change in the Middle East advances a party, or political system which is less friendly to the U.S.. and the West, than what was replaced. And our blind support of Israel is one of the reasons for it. Israel is not a good ally of the U.S. and we should only support it insofar as their policies and actions are also in our national interests. A country which consistently ignores our counsel, attacks all its neighbors, uses the military power we give them to bully other nations and even attacks U.S. naval vessels in international waters is not our friend.
似乎在中东的每一个变化，都推动了那些比起被推翻的政权，对美国和西方更不友好的党派和政权。我们盲目支持以色列是原因之一。以色列不是一个好的美国盟友，我们应该只支持它的那些符合我们国家利益的政策和行动。一个一贯无视我们的忠告，攻击其所有邻国，使用我们给的军事力量欺负其他国家，甚至攻击美国海军在国际水域的舰船的国家不是我们的朋友。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
@ Jack
You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between terrorists motivated by their interpretation of Islam and the overwhelming majority of Arabs and Muslims. Don't overgeneralize, it's bad reasoning.
When I look at the history of the past 10 years I see way too many people who call themselves Christans, Muslims, and Jews engaged in horrendous acts of violence, which if there were a just God, would put their souls in serious danger.
It's enough to make someone agnostic or atheist.
似乎也很难区分那些被伊斯兰教义驱动的恐怖分子和那些绝大多数的阿拉伯人和MSL。不要太笼统的进行概括，那是失败的推理。
当我看过去10年来的历史，我看到太多的人，他们自称Christans【不懂，觉得应该是Christians-基督徒】，MSL，犹太人却从事骇人听闻的暴力行为，如果有一个公正的上帝，那他们的灵魂都将处于危险之中。
这足以让别的人不可知论者或无神论者【因为恐怖分子并未被上帝惩罚】。
barada nikto (_gort_) wrote:
"Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?"
阿拉伯之春对我们来说是好还是坏？
The Arab spring is not affecting us in our own country ... just our world dominance. How we react to them in their countries will determine wether it is good or bad for us.
在我们自己的国家，阿拉伯之春不会影响我们...它只会影响我们的世界霸主地位。我们对他们的国家做出何种反应将会决定它对我们来说是好还是坏。
Pops Parker (Popps) wrote:
Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
Being on the winning side has allways been profitable and good P.R. And now that Hillary is globe-trotting for photo opportunities and Brownie-points for her upcoming Presidential campain she must decide, whom to include in the picture!
A good rule of thumb should be, that what is good for the average citizen should be good for the US. bringing us in line with practicing what we preach.
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好还是坏？
作为胜利的一方，总是会得到利益和良好的公关。现在，希拉里正在周游全球和人拍照为自己加分，为了她即将举行的总统战役做准备！
一个好的经验法则应该是，什么对平民来说是好的，对美国来说就是好的。去实践我们所宣传的。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
How about the War in Iraq? Many Americans claim to be Christians. America started a War in Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, many of the civilians, many of them by American hands. "Thou shalt not kill".
With regard to the Jews, Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been pretty rotten. There's definitely guilt on both sides there, but Israel is without a doubt the stronger party in that conflict and fully capable of taking over the Palestinian lands, which it seems to be slowly doing.
伊拉克战争怎样？许多美国人自称是基督徒。美国开启了伊拉克的战争，已导致成千上万的人死亡，其中许多是平民，其中许多是被美国人杀死。“不可杀人”
至于犹太人，以色列对待巴勒斯坦人一直非常烂。双方肯定都有过失，但毫无疑问，以色列是是冲突中更强的一方并且它完全有能力接管巴勒斯坦人的土地，而现在去看起来它似乎要慢慢做。
Thomas Coulson (Caddman) wrote:
The concern seems to be more about keeping the flow of oil going than anything else. Oil first, Democracy to the back of the bus.
更加令人关心的不是别的而是如何保持石油产量的。石油第一，民主排在后面。
chris schweder (dannysdad) wrote:
You are wrong. I have friends and business relations that are both Muslim and Jews. They know each other. They get along just fine, but then again, this is America.
The violence is in the Middle east. Have you been there? Have you been an American in an Arab country? If not, save your pennies and take a trip. I'm pretty sure that you will change how you feel.
And oh yes. Could you list those horrible things that Christians and Jews did in the past ten years?
------------------------------
Bush the junior (Christian) declared war on a Nation (Iraq) without provocation, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims in the process.
【前面有人说MSL和犹太人彼此不了解】
您错了。我有朋友和生意伙伴是MSL和犹太人。他们彼此了解。他们相处得很好，但话又说回来，这是美国。
暴力事件发生在中东。你去过那里吗？你作为一个美国人去过阿拉伯国家吗？如果不是，存下钱去一趟。我敢肯定，你会改变你的想法。
【前面有人问】你可以列出那些基督徒和犹太人在过去十多年做的可怕的事情吗？
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
布什（作为基督徒）在对方没有挑衅的情况下对一个国家（伊拉克）宣战，并在这个过程中杀害成千上万无辜的MSL。
Steve Buelte (triangle) wrote:
I hope it’s good for the people in the Middle East.
我只希望这对中东人民来说有好处。
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Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
----The Arab Spring: One Year Later
January 9, 2012
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好是坏？
----阿拉伯之春：一年之后
1月9日，2012
【原文来自美国NPR news，http://www.npr.org/2012/01/09/14 ... -or-bad-for-the-u-s，仅看标题就知道，什么民主自由普世价值都是幌子，利益才是真的】
The Arab Spring was misnamed from the start. It was more like a political earthquake than a season of revolt — and the ground is still shaking. Of 22 Arab countries, only three autocrats have been fully ousted, and the uprisings have hardly run their course.
Ask if the changes taking place are good or bad for the U.S., and you often get a different question in return.
"Well, I think it's almost like saying, 'Is a natural disaster good or bad for America?' It just happened. I mean, there's not that much ...there's nothing that we can do about it," says Greg Gause, who specializes in Middle East politics at the University of Vermont. "And so the question is not so much is it good for us or is it bad for us — the question is, 'How do we react to it?' "
The initial reaction was optimistic. President Obama said the uprising on Cairo's Tahrir Square presented a historic opportunity. But the darker days that followed in Egypt, Libya and Syria have tempered the response.
阿拉伯之春天从一开始就名不副实。对比起义之季，它更像是一场政治地震--地面依然还在颤抖。22个阿拉伯国家中，只有三个独裁者已被完全推翻，而起义者已经很难自给自足。
如果要问正在发生的变化对美国是好还是坏，你经常会得到一个不同的答案。
“嗯，我觉得它就好像说，‘自然灾害是美国好还是坏？’它只是发生了。我的意思是，对它，我们无法做那么多......我们无法做任何事情。”格雷格-佛蒙特大学中东政治专家，说：“所以问题不在于这是对我们有好处，或者是有害处 - 问题是，我们如何应对？”
最初的反应是乐观的。奥巴马总统说，在开罗的塔里尔广场上的起义，是一个历史性的机遇。但随后发生在埃及，利比亚和叙利亚的黑暗给了一记狠狠的回击。
照片说明：美国仍在试图中东瞬息万变的政治中制订新的政策。照片里是，10月18日身为美国国务卿
的希拉里·克林顿与在首都的黎波里的访问中与推翻卡扎菲的利比亚战士站在一起
A November poll showed most U.S. voters don't see the political changes in countries like Egypt as good for America. Even fewer expect the new leaders to become allies now that some long-term American allies are gone.
"The revolution, from the beginning, has caught the U.S. off guard, and they were revolutions against U.S. strongmen," says Khaled Fahmy, chairman of the history department at the American University in Cairo.
11月的民意调查显示，大多数美国选民并不认为发生在一些国家，如埃及的政治变革对美国有利。甚至更少的人希望新的领导人成为盟友，而一些美国的长期盟友都不见了。
“革命，从一开始，就使美国猝不及防，他们的革命反对强权的美国，”哈立德·法赫米说，他是在开罗的美国大学的历史系主席。
He describes this period as a historical shift comparable to the Arab revolts of the last century — the Lawrence of Arabia moment, he calls it. Then, it was a revolt against the Ottoman Empire. This time, the target is an American system of alliances that depended on cooperative dictators. This time, it's also about a younger generation that wants a voice.
"Now, all of a sudden now, we have a new player," he says. "It's not Islamists, as such. It's the people. And I think that is the biggest challenge as far as the U.S. is concerned — new players on the block that they haven't really heard or even accounted for before."
他称这个时期是与上个世纪的阿拉伯起义- 劳伦斯阿拉伯的时刻类似的历史性的转变。然后，那时，它是一个反对奥斯曼帝国的起义；这一次，目标是依赖合作的独裁者的美国联盟系统，这一次，它也是年轻一代希望表达自己想法【的起义】。
“现在，突然，我们有了一个新的玩家，”他说，“不是伊斯兰教徒，而是它的人民。我觉得对美国而言这是最大的挑战- 没有听说过甚至作出说明【？？】的新的玩家。”
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Islamists Win At The Polls
伊斯兰在投票中获胜
For the first time, what "the people" have to say is expressed at the ballot box.
In Tunisia, voter turnout in October was near 90 percent in some areas. But even in this most secular and Western-leaning country, Islamists emerged as the most organized political force, which raises the question: How much democracy in the Middle East is good for the United States?
"Overall, I think it's good. People really want to be free, and in the long term, democracy and a greater freedom will come about in the Middle East. In the interim, there may be some difficult days," says Thomas Henriksen, who writes about American power.
第一次，那些人民【指上文】在投票箱前表达自己。
在突尼斯，一些地区的十月的选民投票率接近90％。但即使在这最世俗和亲西方的国家，伊斯兰教徒都成为最有组织的政治力量，这提出了一个问题：在中东，怎样程度的民主是多对美国有利的？
“总的来说，我认为结果是好的。人民真心渴望自由，而且从长远来看，民主和更大程度的自由的在中东出现。在此期间，可能有一些难熬的日子，”托马斯·亨里克森，《美国力量》的作者说。
In Henriksen's office at Stanford University, a large bust of Ronald Reagan sits amoung his books. For Henriksen, freedom is the highest American value, and American interests will have to adapt.
"It was always a bit strained to deal with only a dictator," he says. "It was always too narrow a base to put our policy on."
Yet for decades, dictators delivered a relatively stable and predictable region. American foreign policy priorities like a reliable flow of oil, a relatively secure Israel, and a check on radical regimes and groups were met, more or less. We got what we needed, says Steven Cook at the Council on Foreign Relations.
"Yes, we can all feel warm and fuzzy about democracy in the region, but we also have to recognize that it's all not going to work out very well for us," he says. "There is going to be new and different challenges ahead for the United States with a more open and democratic Middle East."
在斯坦福大学的亨里克森办公室中，一个很大的罗纳德·里根的半身雕像放置在他的书中间。
【译者注：罗纳德·威尔逊·里根，美国政治家，第33任加利福尼亚州州长，第40任总统（1981年-1989年）】
对亨里克森来说，自由是美国的最高价值观，因此美国的利益将不得不调整。
“对待一个独裁者总是会有一点勉强【指传播自由的价值观】，”他说。 “灌输我们的政策的基础非常狭窄。”
然而，几十年来，独裁者提供了一个相对稳定和可预见的地区。在美国外交政策中有优先权的方面，如可靠的石油来源，一个相对安全的以色列和对激进政权和团体的检查，或多或少都得到了满足。“我们得到了我们所需要的”史蒂芬·库克，外交关系委员会的一个成员说。
“是的，我们都可以在该地区感到温和舒适的民主，但我们也必须承认，对我们来说这一切并不会运转的很好，”他说。“马上在美国面前将会有一个新的不同的挑战，即一个更加开放和民主的中东。”
【译者注：这一部分理解的不是很好，感觉未必表达出了原意，有可能某些地方理解错误】
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Reconsidering Egypt
对埃及的反思
The biggest challenge by far is in Egypt, where the U.S. still sends $1.3 billion in aid each year.
In parliamentary elections, Egyptians delivered a strong victory to the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group that pledges to build a modern democracy. But it's foreign policy outlook is less to America's liking than that of Hosni Mubarak's regime.
In a major shift, the Obama administration has opened the first high-level dialogue with Egypt's Islamists. It is a reflection of the new political realities in the region, says Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Center in Doha, Qatar.
"I think there is a growing perception in the Arab world that the U.S. is a power in decline and that it doesn't have as much influence and leverage as it used to," he says. "And for that reason, they don't have to listen to the U.S.; they can defy the U.S."
迄今为止最大的挑战是在埃及，在那里美国仍然每年提供1.3亿美元的援助。
在议会选举中，埃及人表现出了对MSL兄弟会 - 一个承诺建立一个现代民主社会的伊斯兰组织 - 的强力的拥护。但它的外交政策的前景相对胡斯尼·穆巴拉克政权来说，并不符合美国的喜好。【胡斯尼·穆巴拉克，埃及前总统，2011年下台，随后接受审判】
作为一个重大转变，奥巴马政府开辟了与埃及的伊斯兰主义的第一次高级别对话。这是对该地区新的政治现实的反映，沙迪·哈米德，在卡塔尔多哈的布鲁金斯的一成员说。
“我认为，在阿拉伯世界，有越来越多的人们认为美国是一个衰退中的国家，它不会有像以前一样的影响力，”他说。“出于这个原因，他们可以不听美国的，甚至他们可以藐视美国。”
【布鲁金斯，美国一家十分著名的策略研究机构，个人认为其政治倾向偏右，号称自由主义但拥有强烈的实用主义风格】
That's because the Arab world is writing its own history again. The first chapter is about domestic politics, propelled by a popular demand for more accountable governments. Public opinion is going to count, says Greg Gause, at a time when anti-American sentiments are high.
"Now, if you ask me, is the Arab Spring good for America or bad for America, I'd have to say in the short-term, it's bad for America," Gause says.
His policy advice — and the title of his most recent piece on foreign policy — comes from Alice in Wonderland, in a saying by the White Rabbit: "Don't just do something; stand there."
"My policy advice is not to overreact, to not try to direct this in a certain way," he says. "Because I don't think we have the power, I don't think we have the local allies, and until the dust settles, and until they have stable governments that then are going to engage in their own foreign policies, perhaps the best thing we can do is let that happen."
It was the power of American technology that helped drive the revolts — Google, Facebook and Twitter — and shared American values that shaped the demands of the demonstrators. Now, the question of American interests will be determined, in part, by a new Middle East that is likely to be more democratic, more Islamist and perhaps more volatile than ever.
这是因为阿拉伯世界再次书写自己的历史。第一章是有关国内政治，被民众对一个更负责任的政府的要求所推动。“舆论在计算”【不明白】，高斯格雷格说，此时反美情绪很高。
“现在，如果你问我，阿拉伯之春对美国好还是不好，我不得不说，在短期，这对美国是不利的，”高斯说。
他的政策建议 – 也是他在外交政策上的最新一部分 - 来自爱丽丝仙境，他的说法就像白兔的一样：“不要做些什么，站在那里。”
“我的政策建议，不是反应过度，也不是不试图引导它进入正轨，”他说。 “因为我不认为我们有能力，有当地的盟友，直到尘埃落定，直到他们有稳定的可以随后制定自己外交政策的政府，也许我们所能做的最好的就是让这种事情发生。”
是美国的技术力量帮助推动了起义 - Google，Facebook和Twitter – 以及共享的美国的价值观，形成了表威者的要求。现在，有关美国的利益的问题将会被在某种程度上一个新的- 很可能是更加民主，更加伊斯兰以及也许比以往任何时候都更加动荡 – 的中东来决定。
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评论按支持数递减
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Marie Arouet (FrancoisMarie) wrote:
American interests clashes with "American Ideals".
美国喜欢号称“美国理想”的冲突。
Fred Nietzsche (FredNietzsche) wrote:
I think the question that the title should ask is: "Is the Arab Spring good or bad for Arabs?"
And the answer would be, good!
I don't believe it is appropriate to ask it any other way, especially considering they were OUR dictators and they used OUR tear gas.
我认为文章的标题应该是：“阿拉伯之春对阿拉伯好还是不好？”
答案会是，好！
我不认为其他方式【的问法】是合适的，尤其考虑到他们是我们的独裁者且用我们的催泪瓦斯。【这个不明白】
Willy Roentgen (X-Ray2) wrote:
It seems every change in the Middle East advances a party, or political system which is less friendly to the U.S.. and the West, than what was replaced. And our blind support of Israel is one of the reasons for it. Israel is not a good ally of the U.S. and we should only support it insofar as their policies and actions are also in our national interests. A country which consistently ignores our counsel, attacks all its neighbors, uses the military power we give them to bully other nations and even attacks U.S. naval vessels in international waters is not our friend.
似乎在中东的每一个变化，都推动了那些比起被推翻的政权，对美国和西方更不友好的党派和政权。我们盲目支持以色列是原因之一。以色列不是一个好的美国盟友，我们应该只支持它的那些符合我们国家利益的政策和行动。一个一贯无视我们的忠告，攻击其所有邻国，使用我们给的军事力量欺负其他国家，甚至攻击美国海军在国际水域的舰船的国家不是我们的朋友。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
@ Jack
You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between terrorists motivated by their interpretation of Islam and the overwhelming majority of Arabs and Muslims. Don't overgeneralize, it's bad reasoning.
When I look at the history of the past 10 years I see way too many people who call themselves Christans, Muslims, and Jews engaged in horrendous acts of violence, which if there were a just God, would put their souls in serious danger.
It's enough to make someone agnostic or atheist.
似乎也很难区分那些被伊斯兰教义驱动的恐怖分子和那些绝大多数的阿拉伯人和MSL。不要太笼统的进行概括，那是失败的推理。
当我看过去10年来的历史，我看到太多的人，他们自称Christans【不懂，觉得应该是Christians-基督徒】，MSL，犹太人却从事骇人听闻的暴力行为，如果有一个公正的上帝，那他们的灵魂都将处于危险之中。
这足以让别的人不可知论者或无神论者【因为恐怖分子并未被上帝惩罚】。
barada nikto (_gort_) wrote:
"Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?"
阿拉伯之春对我们来说是好还是坏？
The Arab spring is not affecting us in our own country ... just our world dominance. How we react to them in their countries will determine wether it is good or bad for us.
在我们自己的国家，阿拉伯之春不会影响我们...它只会影响我们的世界霸主地位。我们对他们的国家做出何种反应将会决定它对我们来说是好还是坏。
Pops Parker (Popps) wrote:
Is The Arab Spring Good Or Bad For The U.S.?
Being on the winning side has allways been profitable and good P.R. And now that Hillary is globe-trotting for photo opportunities and Brownie-points for her upcoming Presidential campain she must decide, whom to include in the picture!
A good rule of thumb should be, that what is good for the average citizen should be good for the US. bringing us in line with practicing what we preach.
阿拉伯之春对美国来说是好还是坏？
作为胜利的一方，总是会得到利益和良好的公关。现在，希拉里正在周游全球和人拍照为自己加分，为了她即将举行的总统战役做准备！
一个好的经验法则应该是，什么对平民来说是好的，对美国来说就是好的。去实践我们所宣传的。
Chewbacca the Wookie (Chewie) wrote:
How about the War in Iraq? Many Americans claim to be Christians. America started a War in Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, many of the civilians, many of them by American hands. "Thou shalt not kill".
With regard to the Jews, Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been pretty rotten. There's definitely guilt on both sides there, but Israel is without a doubt the stronger party in that conflict and fully capable of taking over the Palestinian lands, which it seems to be slowly doing.
伊拉克战争怎样？许多美国人自称是基督徒。美国开启了伊拉克的战争，已导致成千上万的人死亡，其中许多是平民，其中许多是被美国人杀死。“不可杀人”
至于犹太人，以色列对待巴勒斯坦人一直非常烂。双方肯定都有过失，但毫无疑问，以色列是是冲突中更强的一方并且它完全有能力接管巴勒斯坦人的土地，而现在去看起来它似乎要慢慢做。
Thomas Coulson (Caddman) wrote:
The concern seems to be more about keeping the flow of oil going than anything else. Oil first, Democracy to the back of the bus.
更加令人关心的不是别的而是如何保持石油产量的。石油第一，民主排在后面。
chris schweder (dannysdad) wrote:
You are wrong. I have friends and business relations that are both Muslim and Jews. They know each other. They get along just fine, but then again, this is America.
The violence is in the Middle east. Have you been there? Have you been an American in an Arab country? If not, save your pennies and take a trip. I'm pretty sure that you will change how you feel.
And oh yes. Could you list those horrible things that Christians and Jews did in the past ten years?
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Bush the junior (Christian) declared war on a Nation (Iraq) without provocation, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims in the process.
【前面有人说MSL和犹太人彼此不了解】
您错了。我有朋友和生意伙伴是MSL和犹太人。他们彼此了解。他们相处得很好，但话又说回来，这是美国。
暴力事件发生在中东。你去过那里吗？你作为一个美国人去过阿拉伯国家吗？如果不是，存下钱去一趟。我敢肯定，你会改变你的想法。
【前面有人问】你可以列出那些基督徒和犹太人在过去十多年做的可怕的事情吗？
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布什（作为基督徒）在对方没有挑衅的情况下对一个国家（伊拉克）宣战，并在这个过程中杀害成千上万无辜的MSL。
Steve Buelte (triangle) wrote:
I hope it’s good for the people in the Middle East.
我只希望这对中东人民来说有好处。
龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com
对春天的反思的有些晚了。而且从历史实践来看，这类中立的反思者难以进入核心领导层，对实际决策的影响力很有限。总的来说，“传教士情节”在美英政治人物和大部分公众的思想中是一种根深蒂固的惯性思维。
这个可是相当难说啊..
华盛顿红军 发表于 2012-2-24 15:32 ![]()
对春天的反思的有些晚了。而且从历史实践来看，这类中立的反思者难以进入核心领导层，对实际决策的影响力很 ...
美国基本文化价值观，其实就是宗教那套。包括高喊的冥主等口号，也完全是以宗教那套为基础演化来的。
地球上的真正意义上的世俗化国家只有亚州这一块。
对春天的反思的有些晚了。而且从历史实践来看，这类中立的反思者难以进入核心领导层，对实际决策的影响力很 ...
美国基本文化价值观，其实就是宗教那套。包括高喊的冥主等口号，也完全是以宗教那套为基础演化来的。
地球上的真正意义上的世俗化国家只有亚州这一块。