超级军网印度防卫网：北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/05/02 21:06:43
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html
印度防卫网：北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35。根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。根据《人民日报》报道，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com译者：ngageboy龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com原帖：http://www.indiandefence.com/for ... firing-missile.html
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile
北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35
China has decided to purchase Su-35 fighter from Russia because it is able to launch rearward-firing missiles, according to senior colonel Wu Guohui, an associate professor at Beijing's National Defense University.
The Russia-designed R-73M2, R-74ME missiles, US-designed by AIM-9X and the China-designed PL-10 all have the capability of being launched against enemy aircraft from the back of the aircraft, according to the Party-run People's Daily. The missile has a "nose cone" over the rocket engine and modified fins to prevent instability problems while briefly flying backwards after launch.
根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。
根据党控《人民日报》报道说，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。
The birth of rearward-firing missiles has changed the concept of aerial warfare, according to Wu. In regular air-to-air combat, a fighter must shoot down its enemy from behind. With rearward-firing missiles and a a rearview display mounted on the helmet of the pilot, fighter pilots in the future can attack their target from the front.
China has no proper fighter yet capable of launching such a missile during actual combat. The Su-35 will be incorporated into the PLA Air Force to help pilots and the aviation industry get a feel for the new mode of combat. In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.
据吴声称，后射导弹的出现改变了空战的概念。常规空战时，战机必须在敌机后方将其击落。依靠后射导弹和安装在飞行员头盔上的后视显示屏，未来的战机飞行员可以从正面攻击他们的目标了。
在实战中，中国还没有适合的战斗机来发射这种导弹。SU-35未来加入中国解放军空军后，可以帮助飞行员和航空业得到一些全新的作战方式。在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
以下为印度网友留言：
译者：ngageboy
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7731-1-1.html
Gessler（印度）
NOPE. Su-35 is being bought because -
1) China's perceived "super flankers" such as the AESA-equipped J-11B and rumored J-16 are nothing but repainted Su-27SKs. They have no AESA radar, they don't even have a PESA. Just the same old MSA as the Su-27/J-11A did, albeit with improvements.
2) The engine problem. Some J-11B prototypes have been fitted with WS-10 engines so far, but it does not seem the new Chinese engine is giving any satisfactory performance, as there are pictures to prove that many J-10B/J-11B/J-15 (which were meant to use WS-10), are still using large numbers of AL-31FN engines.
The WS-10 is meant to be an improvement over the less-powerful (albeit far more reliable) AL-31FN, with the principle betterment being an increased level of AB thrust. But the poor hot section life, TBO & MBTF of the WS-10's core, key hot-section components and pressure fans means it is more of a liability to PLAAF rather than an improvement, when compared to existing AL-31FN.
So the most obvious solution for China now is to try and get new engine technology from Russia in the form of the new Saturn 117S models.
3) China needs a new high-end Flanker to counter the jets being procured by India, Japan & SK. The present J-10A and J-11A, while being numerous, are inadequate technology-wise. And will be more so by the end of the decade.
不对，买SU-35是因为：
1， 中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU-27SKS而已。他们根本没有有源相控阵雷达，甚至连“无源相控阵技术（PESA）都没有。只是一种经过改进，类似SU-27/J-11A的旧机械扫描技术雷达（MSA）。
2， 在发动机问题上。到目前为止，虽然一些J-11B原型机已经装备了WS-10发动机，但新的国产发动机似乎并没有达到令人满意的效果，因为有照片为证，许多J-10B/J-11B/J-15(意味着使用WS-10)，仍在大量使用AL-31FN发动机。
WS-10是为了改善动力不够强（尽管更可靠）的AL-31FN，目的是为AB型增加推力级别。但是热端部件寿命短，WS-10核心是大修间隔时间（TBO）和平均无故障工作时间（MBTF），关键的热端部件和空气压缩叶扇（不良）意味着解放军空军将承担更多风险，相比现在的AL-31FN来说并不是一进步。
所以现在中国最显而易见的解决方案是尝试从俄罗斯新的土星-117S型发动机上获得新技术。
3， 中国需要一款型的“高端侧卫”来应对印度、日本、韩国的战机采购计划。目前的J-10A和J-11A已经够多，已不够智能化。而且未来十年后会更明显。
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
I think PLAAF should go on war with some powerful country and then they will find out that there numbers are just insufficient against a few just due to lack of technology, there fighters will be nothing more than sitting ducks for some better airforces of the world who's names i'll not mention. Because one of the most powerful airforces in the world is not fool to spend Billions every year. They will get there a$$es whipped in case of any misadventure.
我认为中国空军应该去和一些强国打一战，那时他们会发现这几项（技术）是不足以对抗一批只是缺乏技术（的旧战机的）。那些战机将什么都不是，不用我说他们只比世上一些由鸭子坐着（驾驶）的空军好些而已（译者：貌似是吐槽巴基斯坦空军）。因为世界上每年花数十亿的最强空军之一也不是傻子。他们如发生任何意外事故都将会被鞭臀的。
UlJUH（印度）
Do we have any plans of procuring Su-35?
我们有啥采购SU-35的计划吗？
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
No, upgrading Su-30MKI to Super Sukhoi will make it the ultimate Flanker.
Do rest assured.
没有，升级SU-30MKI而成的超级侧卫，将成为终极侧卫
尽管放心吧
UlJUH（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
（节选）
Also Top speed of su 30mki is 2,120 km/h and of su-35 is 2,500 km/h
Unit cost of su30mki is 25,000,000 USD and of su-35 is 40,000,000–65,000,000 USD (2013)
My perception is "mehnga hai toh behthar hai" or is the lower cost of su30mki becoz of joint development. Please shed some light.
此外SU-30MKI的最高时速为2120公里，SU-35为2500公里，SU-30MKI的单价为2500万美元，SU-35为4000万-6500万美元。
我的看法是"mehnga hai toh behthar hai"或因为共同开发使得SU-30MKI的成本更低。请给些启发。
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
The cost of present-day Su-30MKI is much higher than $25 million.
Super MKI will get uprated engine with 20% more thrust, that will help increase both max speed & maximum non-AB speed, possibly giving it supercruise.
It will get a new AESA radar (not Zhuk-AE as being claimed by journos), much more powerful than Su-35 PESA radar. It will comparable to PAK-FA AESA.
Most of Super MKI's avionics & subsystems will be derived from those developed for PAK-FA. This alone will make it much ahead of Su-35.
We are yet to see the actual RCS values of new Super MKI, because we don't yet know what kind of RCS-reduction measures are being taken.
现在SU-30MKI的成本远远高于2500万美元了。
超级（SU-30）MKI将获得提升20%推力的大功率发动机，这将有助于提高最大速度和最大NON-AB速度，甚至实现超音速巡航。
它会装上一部新的有源相控阵雷达（不是媒体声称的Zhuk-AE），比装备无源相控阵雷达的SU-35强大得多了。甚至可以和“未来战术航空综合系统”（PAK-FA）的有源相控阵雷达相媲美了。
（译者：俄罗斯的T-50也是PAK-FA项目的一部分）
超级（SU-30）MKI的大部分航空电子设备和配套子系统都开发自PAK-FA。仅凭这一点就使它比SU-35更先进了。
我们还没有看到新超级（SU-30）MKI雷达反射面积（RCS）的实际数值。因为我们还不知道它正在采取什么措施使雷达反射面积降低。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
we are expecting it by Mid 2014, right ??
我们正在期待2014年的中旬，对吗？
Gessler（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
Hard to say. Let's see if something is said during St. Antony's visit to Rossiya.
很难说。让我们看看圣安东尼（译者：印度国防部长）访问俄罗斯期间怎么说吧。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
St. Antony ??
wow bro. that was like so totally random
圣安东尼？？
Wow兄弟，这完全是随即的（表情：倒地笑滚）
Vstol Jockey（印度）
“In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.”
The last line says it all. More chinese copies and with full knowledge of Russia. Do we still put our money into Pak-Fa?
在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
最后一句说明了一切。会有更多中国的仿制品并对俄罗斯（技术）充分了解。而我们却仍然把钱砸进PAK-FA？
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
I feel there is gonna be extortion again like the Carrier, And there is not much levey considering the fact that there is no exclusivity also there are none other than 2 partners in design and development phase. What are we gonna get may be a priced stallion at the price of a Dinosaur.
我觉得这是要像航母一样敲诈（我们）一番，并不费脑子的事实是，没其他选择了，（世界上）也没有其他可以双方一起设计、开发的合作伙伴了。这就是为什么我们买头“种马”却花了“恐龙”价的原因。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
I find no rational in IN being forced to lease another Akula for 10 yrs for a price for which we can ask French DCNS to deliver three Scorpene with AIP from their shipyards while we set up our own line in Mumbai.
Pls remember that hulls of two more Arihant are ready and nearly 70% fitted out. Why shud we waste our money on Akula of first generation? The Italian waitress is the agent of old KGB and now Russia, she has no love for this nation or its defence forces.
The Paupers of Turin, Italy are now Billionaires with no known source of income.
我发现印度海军被迫租十年的另一艘阿库拉的价格不合理，我们都可以买三艘法国DCNS公司提供不依赖空气动力（AIP）的鮋鱼潜艇了，我们可以在孟买设立自己的（生产）线。
请记住，双壳体的歼敌者已经准备就绪，舾装进度70%了。为什么我们还要浪费钱财在第一代的阿库拉上？意大利女服务员（译者：貌似指索尼娅甘地）是老克格勃和现在俄罗斯的代办，她不爱这个的国家和军队。
都灵的贫民，意大利现在成了亿万富翁，因为有了未知的收入来源
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
Nothing more i can add to the brilliance stated by a Ace.
Seems like India wants to keep Russia in the leash... That would be the only explanation for the going on negotiations for the Subs.
我没啥好再加的了
印度好像是被俄罗斯拿根纤绳拴着的。。。这就是潜艇谈判的唯一解释。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
The way we are dragging the conclusion of these deals, we will be left with no choice but to ask french to make most of the equipment in their facilities as the time taken to set up similar facilities in India will not get shortened. There are already rumours that IAF & MOD is negotiating for a lower price of Rafale to increase the number of ready built planes from DS in France. If you guys may remember, this is what happenned with every aircraft deal which India has signed. The story of Jags, Hawks, SU-30s will be reapeated for Rafale also. But I do not mind it for Rafale as we are getting a good product from most reliable friends that we had till date. Unlike russians, they stuck to their time schedules and did not fleece us. They are good with spares supply and do not have clauses like Americans which can render your entire equipment unfit for war when you need it the most. The spares have been supplied in shortest time with no clauses and no extra cost. They did not even stop us or demand extra money when we had to rewire M2K during Kargil war for LGBs. Russians till date have not allowed us to use our own ammo and Barrels for T-90 tanks. They have infact even refused full TOT even after signing the deal and we still have to import a substantial part of T-90 from Russia for India built T-90.
Did it ever occur to any member here that while French have been the most reliable friend of India for weapons tilldate, We bought Mystere and Orag from them, why did we go totally into the lap of Russians after the death of Lal Bahadur Shastri? Who got benefitted the most? Who was about to be sent out of India forever to UK by Shastri and what did this person do as return benefit to USSR? Did Shastri die or was he eliminated to make way for a russian agent to take over India at the request of this agent who offered to be an agent of USSR forever?
Zero marks for getting it right.
（译者：抱怨一大堆，大致讲的是买俄罗斯、美国的武器多么多么不靠谱，处处限制和阻碍印度；而买法国武器多么多么好，没有限制、没有条件、没有拖延，价格也合理些，从反面典型那里证明法国才是印度提供武器的“最可靠朋友”。）
Criminal（印度）回复 Layman（印度）
Extortion sounds like an understatement IMO
这轻描淡写般的敲诈，像国际海事组织说得一样
Layman（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
A diplomatic word for holding something for ransom if i may say....
如果要我说这就像外交圈里的：拿东西换赎金
Criminal（印度）回复Layman（印度）
Now that makes perfect sense
现在成为真理了
Averageamerican（美国）
You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear
你用猪耳朵做不出丝绸钱包
（译者：百度了一下，为美国谚语“比喻用差材料做不出真正好的东西出来”）
Omya（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
your rage against india because we are not buying US fighters ?
well your fault you guys chose the wrong friend during cold war
您对印度的不满是因为我们不卖美国战机吗？
错就错在你们冷战期间选错了朋友。
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Omya（印度）
leave him alone... he is not remained as much entertaining as he was
让他自己一边呆着去。。。他没有保持他一贯以来的搞笑风格
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Himanshu Pandey（印度）
Oh Brother!!!!OBAMA will impose sanctions on you..
Oh兄台！！！奥巴马会制裁你的哦。
Gessler（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
So do we make it out of a donkey's ear like the US?
那么我们能像美国一样用驴耳朵做出它吗？
Criminal（印度）
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile ???
I can't agree with the news,
i think the one Trimurti Mods @Manmohan Yadav (others being @layman and @Himanshu Pandey)
has stated several times every time there is a news like this
"will believe when i see it"
unless officially declared, i ain't believing it
my Mama raised no Idiot, specially when it comes to believing the Chinese
北京购买SU-35是为了后射导弹？
我不同意这个新闻观点
我认为它是（印度）三神一体的模式
（译者：三神为梵天（创造者），毗瑟奴（维系者）和湿婆（毁灭者））
每次类似的新闻出来后我一直说：“当看到它时我要相信”
除非正式宣布，否则我是不会相信的
我妈说别犯傻，特别是去相信中国人的时候。
Manmohan Yadav（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
yup your smart
嗯，你很聪明
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
then your mama raised a bright kid
那么看来你妈妈告诉的是一个聪明的小孩哈。
Marqueur（印度）
zero for me
对我来说就是个屁。
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html
印度防卫网：北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35。根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。根据《人民日报》报道，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com译者：ngageboy龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com原帖：http://www.indiandefence.com/for ... firing-missile.html
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile
北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35
China has decided to purchase Su-35 fighter from Russia because it is able to launch rearward-firing missiles, according to senior colonel Wu Guohui, an associate professor at Beijing's National Defense University.
The Russia-designed R-73M2, R-74ME missiles, US-designed by AIM-9X and the China-designed PL-10 all have the capability of being launched against enemy aircraft from the back of the aircraft, according to the Party-run People's Daily. The missile has a "nose cone" over the rocket engine and modified fins to prevent instability problems while briefly flying backwards after launch.
根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。
根据党控《人民日报》报道说，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。
The birth of rearward-firing missiles has changed the concept of aerial warfare, according to Wu. In regular air-to-air combat, a fighter must shoot down its enemy from behind. With rearward-firing missiles and a a rearview display mounted on the helmet of the pilot, fighter pilots in the future can attack their target from the front.
China has no proper fighter yet capable of launching such a missile during actual combat. The Su-35 will be incorporated into the PLA Air Force to help pilots and the aviation industry get a feel for the new mode of combat. In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.
据吴声称，后射导弹的出现改变了空战的概念。常规空战时，战机必须在敌机后方将其击落。依靠后射导弹和安装在飞行员头盔上的后视显示屏，未来的战机飞行员可以从正面攻击他们的目标了。
在实战中，中国还没有适合的战斗机来发射这种导弹。SU-35未来加入中国解放军空军后，可以帮助飞行员和航空业得到一些全新的作战方式。在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
以下为印度网友留言：
译者：ngageboy
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7731-1-1.html
Gessler（印度）
NOPE. Su-35 is being bought because -
1) China's perceived "super flankers" such as the AESA-equipped J-11B and rumored J-16 are nothing but repainted Su-27SKs. They have no AESA radar, they don't even have a PESA. Just the same old MSA as the Su-27/J-11A did, albeit with improvements.
2) The engine problem. Some J-11B prototypes have been fitted with WS-10 engines so far, but it does not seem the new Chinese engine is giving any satisfactory performance, as there are pictures to prove that many J-10B/J-11B/J-15 (which were meant to use WS-10), are still using large numbers of AL-31FN engines.
The WS-10 is meant to be an improvement over the less-powerful (albeit far more reliable) AL-31FN, with the principle betterment being an increased level of AB thrust. But the poor hot section life, TBO & MBTF of the WS-10's core, key hot-section components and pressure fans means it is more of a liability to PLAAF rather than an improvement, when compared to existing AL-31FN.
So the most obvious solution for China now is to try and get new engine technology from Russia in the form of the new Saturn 117S models.
3) China needs a new high-end Flanker to counter the jets being procured by India, Japan & SK. The present J-10A and J-11A, while being numerous, are inadequate technology-wise. And will be more so by the end of the decade.
不对，买SU-35是因为：
1， 中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU-27SKS而已。他们根本没有有源相控阵雷达，甚至连“无源相控阵技术（PESA）都没有。只是一种经过改进，类似SU-27/J-11A的旧机械扫描技术雷达（MSA）。
2， 在发动机问题上。到目前为止，虽然一些J-11B原型机已经装备了WS-10发动机，但新的国产发动机似乎并没有达到令人满意的效果，因为有照片为证，许多J-10B/J-11B/J-15(意味着使用WS-10)，仍在大量使用AL-31FN发动机。
WS-10是为了改善动力不够强（尽管更可靠）的AL-31FN，目的是为AB型增加推力级别。但是热端部件寿命短，WS-10核心是大修间隔时间（TBO）和平均无故障工作时间（MBTF），关键的热端部件和空气压缩叶扇（不良）意味着解放军空军将承担更多风险，相比现在的AL-31FN来说并不是一进步。
所以现在中国最显而易见的解决方案是尝试从俄罗斯新的土星-117S型发动机上获得新技术。
3， 中国需要一款型的“高端侧卫”来应对印度、日本、韩国的战机采购计划。目前的J-10A和J-11A已经够多，已不够智能化。而且未来十年后会更明显。
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
I think PLAAF should go on war with some powerful country and then they will find out that there numbers are just insufficient against a few just due to lack of technology, there fighters will be nothing more than sitting ducks for some better airforces of the world who's names i'll not mention. Because one of the most powerful airforces in the world is not fool to spend Billions every year. They will get there a$$es whipped in case of any misadventure.
我认为中国空军应该去和一些强国打一战，那时他们会发现这几项（技术）是不足以对抗一批只是缺乏技术（的旧战机的）。那些战机将什么都不是，不用我说他们只比世上一些由鸭子坐着（驾驶）的空军好些而已（译者：貌似是吐槽巴基斯坦空军）。因为世界上每年花数十亿的最强空军之一也不是傻子。他们如发生任何意外事故都将会被鞭臀的。
UlJUH（印度）
Do we have any plans of procuring Su-35?
我们有啥采购SU-35的计划吗？
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
No, upgrading Su-30MKI to Super Sukhoi will make it the ultimate Flanker.
Do rest assured.
没有，升级SU-30MKI而成的超级侧卫，将成为终极侧卫
尽管放心吧
UlJUH（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
（节选）
Also Top speed of su 30mki is 2,120 km/h and of su-35 is 2,500 km/h
Unit cost of su30mki is 25,000,000 USD and of su-35 is 40,000,000–65,000,000 USD (2013)
My perception is "mehnga hai toh behthar hai" or is the lower cost of su30mki becoz of joint development. Please shed some light.
此外SU-30MKI的最高时速为2120公里，SU-35为2500公里，SU-30MKI的单价为2500万美元，SU-35为4000万-6500万美元。
我的看法是"mehnga hai toh behthar hai"或因为共同开发使得SU-30MKI的成本更低。请给些启发。
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
The cost of present-day Su-30MKI is much higher than $25 million.
Super MKI will get uprated engine with 20% more thrust, that will help increase both max speed & maximum non-AB speed, possibly giving it supercruise.
It will get a new AESA radar (not Zhuk-AE as being claimed by journos), much more powerful than Su-35 PESA radar. It will comparable to PAK-FA AESA.
Most of Super MKI's avionics & subsystems will be derived from those developed for PAK-FA. This alone will make it much ahead of Su-35.
We are yet to see the actual RCS values of new Super MKI, because we don't yet know what kind of RCS-reduction measures are being taken.
现在SU-30MKI的成本远远高于2500万美元了。
超级（SU-30）MKI将获得提升20%推力的大功率发动机，这将有助于提高最大速度和最大NON-AB速度，甚至实现超音速巡航。
它会装上一部新的有源相控阵雷达（不是媒体声称的Zhuk-AE），比装备无源相控阵雷达的SU-35强大得多了。甚至可以和“未来战术航空综合系统”（PAK-FA）的有源相控阵雷达相媲美了。
（译者：俄罗斯的T-50也是PAK-FA项目的一部分）
超级（SU-30）MKI的大部分航空电子设备和配套子系统都开发自PAK-FA。仅凭这一点就使它比SU-35更先进了。
我们还没有看到新超级（SU-30）MKI雷达反射面积（RCS）的实际数值。因为我们还不知道它正在采取什么措施使雷达反射面积降低。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
we are expecting it by Mid 2014, right ??
我们正在期待2014年的中旬，对吗？
Gessler（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
Hard to say. Let's see if something is said during St. Antony's visit to Rossiya.
很难说。让我们看看圣安东尼（译者：印度国防部长）访问俄罗斯期间怎么说吧。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
St. Antony ??
wow bro. that was like so totally random
圣安东尼？？
Wow兄弟，这完全是随即的（表情：倒地笑滚）
Vstol Jockey（印度）
“In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.”
The last line says it all. More chinese copies and with full knowledge of Russia. Do we still put our money into Pak-Fa?
在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
最后一句说明了一切。会有更多中国的仿制品并对俄罗斯（技术）充分了解。而我们却仍然把钱砸进PAK-FA？
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
I feel there is gonna be extortion again like the Carrier, And there is not much levey considering the fact that there is no exclusivity also there are none other than 2 partners in design and development phase. What are we gonna get may be a priced stallion at the price of a Dinosaur.
我觉得这是要像航母一样敲诈（我们）一番，并不费脑子的事实是，没其他选择了，（世界上）也没有其他可以双方一起设计、开发的合作伙伴了。这就是为什么我们买头“种马”却花了“恐龙”价的原因。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
I find no rational in IN being forced to lease another Akula for 10 yrs for a price for which we can ask French DCNS to deliver three Scorpene with AIP from their shipyards while we set up our own line in Mumbai.
Pls remember that hulls of two more Arihant are ready and nearly 70% fitted out. Why shud we waste our money on Akula of first generation? The Italian waitress is the agent of old KGB and now Russia, she has no love for this nation or its defence forces.
The Paupers of Turin, Italy are now Billionaires with no known source of income.
我发现印度海军被迫租十年的另一艘阿库拉的价格不合理，我们都可以买三艘法国DCNS公司提供不依赖空气动力（AIP）的鮋鱼潜艇了，我们可以在孟买设立自己的（生产）线。
请记住，双壳体的歼敌者已经准备就绪，舾装进度70%了。为什么我们还要浪费钱财在第一代的阿库拉上？意大利女服务员（译者：貌似指索尼娅甘地）是老克格勃和现在俄罗斯的代办，她不爱这个的国家和军队。
都灵的贫民，意大利现在成了亿万富翁，因为有了未知的收入来源
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
Nothing more i can add to the brilliance stated by a Ace.
Seems like India wants to keep Russia in the leash... That would be the only explanation for the going on negotiations for the Subs.
我没啥好再加的了
印度好像是被俄罗斯拿根纤绳拴着的。。。这就是潜艇谈判的唯一解释。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
The way we are dragging the conclusion of these deals, we will be left with no choice but to ask french to make most of the equipment in their facilities as the time taken to set up similar facilities in India will not get shortened. There are already rumours that IAF & MOD is negotiating for a lower price of Rafale to increase the number of ready built planes from DS in France. If you guys may remember, this is what happenned with every aircraft deal which India has signed. The story of Jags, Hawks, SU-30s will be reapeated for Rafale also. But I do not mind it for Rafale as we are getting a good product from most reliable friends that we had till date. Unlike russians, they stuck to their time schedules and did not fleece us. They are good with spares supply and do not have clauses like Americans which can render your entire equipment unfit for war when you need it the most. The spares have been supplied in shortest time with no clauses and no extra cost. They did not even stop us or demand extra money when we had to rewire M2K during Kargil war for LGBs. Russians till date have not allowed us to use our own ammo and Barrels for T-90 tanks. They have infact even refused full TOT even after signing the deal and we still have to import a substantial part of T-90 from Russia for India built T-90.
Did it ever occur to any member here that while French have been the most reliable friend of India for weapons tilldate, We bought Mystere and Orag from them, why did we go totally into the lap of Russians after the death of Lal Bahadur Shastri? Who got benefitted the most? Who was about to be sent out of India forever to UK by Shastri and what did this person do as return benefit to USSR? Did Shastri die or was he eliminated to make way for a russian agent to take over India at the request of this agent who offered to be an agent of USSR forever?
Zero marks for getting it right.
（译者：抱怨一大堆，大致讲的是买俄罗斯、美国的武器多么多么不靠谱，处处限制和阻碍印度；而买法国武器多么多么好，没有限制、没有条件、没有拖延，价格也合理些，从反面典型那里证明法国才是印度提供武器的“最可靠朋友”。）
Criminal（印度）回复 Layman（印度）
Extortion sounds like an understatement IMO
这轻描淡写般的敲诈，像国际海事组织说得一样
Layman（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
A diplomatic word for holding something for ransom if i may say....
如果要我说这就像外交圈里的：拿东西换赎金
Criminal（印度）回复Layman（印度）
Now that makes perfect sense
现在成为真理了
Averageamerican（美国）
You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear
你用猪耳朵做不出丝绸钱包
（译者：百度了一下，为美国谚语“比喻用差材料做不出真正好的东西出来”）
Omya（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
your rage against india because we are not buying US fighters ?
well your fault you guys chose the wrong friend during cold war
您对印度的不满是因为我们不卖美国战机吗？
错就错在你们冷战期间选错了朋友。
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Omya（印度）
leave him alone... he is not remained as much entertaining as he was
让他自己一边呆着去。。。他没有保持他一贯以来的搞笑风格
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Himanshu Pandey（印度）
Oh Brother!!!!OBAMA will impose sanctions on you..
Oh兄台！！！奥巴马会制裁你的哦。
Gessler（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
So do we make it out of a donkey's ear like the US?
那么我们能像美国一样用驴耳朵做出它吗？
Criminal（印度）
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile ???
I can't agree with the news,
i think the one Trimurti Mods @Manmohan Yadav (others being @layman and @Himanshu Pandey)
has stated several times every time there is a news like this
"will believe when i see it"
unless officially declared, i ain't believing it
my Mama raised no Idiot, specially when it comes to believing the Chinese
北京购买SU-35是为了后射导弹？
我不同意这个新闻观点
我认为它是（印度）三神一体的模式
（译者：三神为梵天（创造者），毗瑟奴（维系者）和湿婆（毁灭者））
每次类似的新闻出来后我一直说：“当看到它时我要相信”
除非正式宣布，否则我是不会相信的
我妈说别犯傻，特别是去相信中国人的时候。
Manmohan Yadav（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
yup your smart
嗯，你很聪明
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
then your mama raised a bright kid
那么看来你妈妈告诉的是一个聪明的小孩哈。
Marqueur（印度）
zero for me
对我来说就是个屁。
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html
印度防卫网：北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35。根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。根据《人民日报》报道，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com译者：ngageboy龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com原帖：http://www.indiandefence.com/for ... firing-missile.html
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile
北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35
China has decided to purchase Su-35 fighter from Russia because it is able to launch rearward-firing missiles, according to senior colonel Wu Guohui, an associate professor at Beijing's National Defense University.
The Russia-designed R-73M2, R-74ME missiles, US-designed by AIM-9X and the China-designed PL-10 all have the capability of being launched against enemy aircraft from the back of the aircraft, according to the Party-run People's Daily. The missile has a "nose cone" over the rocket engine and modified fins to prevent instability problems while briefly flying backwards after launch.
根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。
根据党控《人民日报》报道说，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。
The birth of rearward-firing missiles has changed the concept of aerial warfare, according to Wu. In regular air-to-air combat, a fighter must shoot down its enemy from behind. With rearward-firing missiles and a a rearview display mounted on the helmet of the pilot, fighter pilots in the future can attack their target from the front.
China has no proper fighter yet capable of launching such a missile during actual combat. The Su-35 will be incorporated into the PLA Air Force to help pilots and the aviation industry get a feel for the new mode of combat. In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.
据吴声称，后射导弹的出现改变了空战的概念。常规空战时，战机必须在敌机后方将其击落。依靠后射导弹和安装在飞行员头盔上的后视显示屏，未来的战机飞行员可以从正面攻击他们的目标了。
在实战中，中国还没有适合的战斗机来发射这种导弹。SU-35未来加入中国解放军空军后，可以帮助飞行员和航空业得到一些全新的作战方式。在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
以下为印度网友留言：
译者：ngageboy
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7731-1-1.html
Gessler（印度）
NOPE. Su-35 is being bought because -
1) China's perceived "super flankers" such as the AESA-equipped J-11B and rumored J-16 are nothing but repainted Su-27SKs. They have no AESA radar, they don't even have a PESA. Just the same old MSA as the Su-27/J-11A did, albeit with improvements.
2) The engine problem. Some J-11B prototypes have been fitted with WS-10 engines so far, but it does not seem the new Chinese engine is giving any satisfactory performance, as there are pictures to prove that many J-10B/J-11B/J-15 (which were meant to use WS-10), are still using large numbers of AL-31FN engines.
The WS-10 is meant to be an improvement over the less-powerful (albeit far more reliable) AL-31FN, with the principle betterment being an increased level of AB thrust. But the poor hot section life, TBO & MBTF of the WS-10's core, key hot-section components and pressure fans means it is more of a liability to PLAAF rather than an improvement, when compared to existing AL-31FN.
So the most obvious solution for China now is to try and get new engine technology from Russia in the form of the new Saturn 117S models.
3) China needs a new high-end Flanker to counter the jets being procured by India, Japan & SK. The present J-10A and J-11A, while being numerous, are inadequate technology-wise. And will be more so by the end of the decade.
不对，买SU-35是因为：
1， 中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU-27SKS而已。他们根本没有有源相控阵雷达，甚至连“无源相控阵技术（PESA）都没有。只是一种经过改进，类似SU-27/J-11A的旧机械扫描技术雷达（MSA）。
2， 在发动机问题上。到目前为止，虽然一些J-11B原型机已经装备了WS-10发动机，但新的国产发动机似乎并没有达到令人满意的效果，因为有照片为证，许多J-10B/J-11B/J-15(意味着使用WS-10)，仍在大量使用AL-31FN发动机。
WS-10是为了改善动力不够强（尽管更可靠）的AL-31FN，目的是为AB型增加推力级别。但是热端部件寿命短，WS-10核心是大修间隔时间（TBO）和平均无故障工作时间（MBTF），关键的热端部件和空气压缩叶扇（不良）意味着解放军空军将承担更多风险，相比现在的AL-31FN来说并不是一进步。
所以现在中国最显而易见的解决方案是尝试从俄罗斯新的土星-117S型发动机上获得新技术。
3， 中国需要一款型的“高端侧卫”来应对印度、日本、韩国的战机采购计划。目前的J-10A和J-11A已经够多，已不够智能化。而且未来十年后会更明显。
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
I think PLAAF should go on war with some powerful country and then they will find out that there numbers are just insufficient against a few just due to lack of technology, there fighters will be nothing more than sitting ducks for some better airforces of the world who's names i'll not mention. Because one of the most powerful airforces in the world is not fool to spend Billions every year. They will get there a$$es whipped in case of any misadventure.
我认为中国空军应该去和一些强国打一战，那时他们会发现这几项（技术）是不足以对抗一批只是缺乏技术（的旧战机的）。那些战机将什么都不是，不用我说他们只比世上一些由鸭子坐着（驾驶）的空军好些而已（译者：貌似是吐槽巴基斯坦空军）。因为世界上每年花数十亿的最强空军之一也不是傻子。他们如发生任何意外事故都将会被鞭臀的。
UlJUH（印度）
Do we have any plans of procuring Su-35?
我们有啥采购SU-35的计划吗？
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
No, upgrading Su-30MKI to Super Sukhoi will make it the ultimate Flanker.
Do rest assured.
没有，升级SU-30MKI而成的超级侧卫，将成为终极侧卫
尽管放心吧
UlJUH（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
（节选）
Also Top speed of su 30mki is 2,120 km/h and of su-35 is 2,500 km/h
Unit cost of su30mki is 25,000,000 USD and of su-35 is 40,000,000–65,000,000 USD (2013)
My perception is "mehnga hai toh behthar hai" or is the lower cost of su30mki becoz of joint development. Please shed some light.
此外SU-30MKI的最高时速为2120公里，SU-35为2500公里，SU-30MKI的单价为2500万美元，SU-35为4000万-6500万美元。
我的看法是"mehnga hai toh behthar hai"或因为共同开发使得SU-30MKI的成本更低。请给些启发。
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
The cost of present-day Su-30MKI is much higher than $25 million.
Super MKI will get uprated engine with 20% more thrust, that will help increase both max speed & maximum non-AB speed, possibly giving it supercruise.
It will get a new AESA radar (not Zhuk-AE as being claimed by journos), much more powerful than Su-35 PESA radar. It will comparable to PAK-FA AESA.
Most of Super MKI's avionics & subsystems will be derived from those developed for PAK-FA. This alone will make it much ahead of Su-35.
We are yet to see the actual RCS values of new Super MKI, because we don't yet know what kind of RCS-reduction measures are being taken.
现在SU-30MKI的成本远远高于2500万美元了。
超级（SU-30）MKI将获得提升20%推力的大功率发动机，这将有助于提高最大速度和最大NON-AB速度，甚至实现超音速巡航。
它会装上一部新的有源相控阵雷达（不是媒体声称的Zhuk-AE），比装备无源相控阵雷达的SU-35强大得多了。甚至可以和“未来战术航空综合系统”（PAK-FA）的有源相控阵雷达相媲美了。
（译者：俄罗斯的T-50也是PAK-FA项目的一部分）
超级（SU-30）MKI的大部分航空电子设备和配套子系统都开发自PAK-FA。仅凭这一点就使它比SU-35更先进了。
我们还没有看到新超级（SU-30）MKI雷达反射面积（RCS）的实际数值。因为我们还不知道它正在采取什么措施使雷达反射面积降低。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
we are expecting it by Mid 2014, right ??
我们正在期待2014年的中旬，对吗？
Gessler（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
Hard to say. Let's see if something is said during St. Antony's visit to Rossiya.
很难说。让我们看看圣安东尼（译者：印度国防部长）访问俄罗斯期间怎么说吧。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
St. Antony ??
wow bro. that was like so totally random
圣安东尼？？
Wow兄弟，这完全是随即的（表情：倒地笑滚）
Vstol Jockey（印度）
“In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.”
The last line says it all. More chinese copies and with full knowledge of Russia. Do we still put our money into Pak-Fa?
在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
最后一句说明了一切。会有更多中国的仿制品并对俄罗斯（技术）充分了解。而我们却仍然把钱砸进PAK-FA？
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
I feel there is gonna be extortion again like the Carrier, And there is not much levey considering the fact that there is no exclusivity also there are none other than 2 partners in design and development phase. What are we gonna get may be a priced stallion at the price of a Dinosaur.
我觉得这是要像航母一样敲诈（我们）一番，并不费脑子的事实是，没其他选择了，（世界上）也没有其他可以双方一起设计、开发的合作伙伴了。这就是为什么我们买头“种马”却花了“恐龙”价的原因。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
I find no rational in IN being forced to lease another Akula for 10 yrs for a price for which we can ask French DCNS to deliver three Scorpene with AIP from their shipyards while we set up our own line in Mumbai.
Pls remember that hulls of two more Arihant are ready and nearly 70% fitted out. Why shud we waste our money on Akula of first generation? The Italian waitress is the agent of old KGB and now Russia, she has no love for this nation or its defence forces.
The Paupers of Turin, Italy are now Billionaires with no known source of income.
我发现印度海军被迫租十年的另一艘阿库拉的价格不合理，我们都可以买三艘法国DCNS公司提供不依赖空气动力（AIP）的鮋鱼潜艇了，我们可以在孟买设立自己的（生产）线。
请记住，双壳体的歼敌者已经准备就绪，舾装进度70%了。为什么我们还要浪费钱财在第一代的阿库拉上？意大利女服务员（译者：貌似指索尼娅甘地）是老克格勃和现在俄罗斯的代办，她不爱这个的国家和军队。
都灵的贫民，意大利现在成了亿万富翁，因为有了未知的收入来源
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
Nothing more i can add to the brilliance stated by a Ace.
Seems like India wants to keep Russia in the leash... That would be the only explanation for the going on negotiations for the Subs.
我没啥好再加的了
印度好像是被俄罗斯拿根纤绳拴着的。。。这就是潜艇谈判的唯一解释。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
The way we are dragging the conclusion of these deals, we will be left with no choice but to ask french to make most of the equipment in their facilities as the time taken to set up similar facilities in India will not get shortened. There are already rumours that IAF & MOD is negotiating for a lower price of Rafale to increase the number of ready built planes from DS in France. If you guys may remember, this is what happenned with every aircraft deal which India has signed. The story of Jags, Hawks, SU-30s will be reapeated for Rafale also. But I do not mind it for Rafale as we are getting a good product from most reliable friends that we had till date. Unlike russians, they stuck to their time schedules and did not fleece us. They are good with spares supply and do not have clauses like Americans which can render your entire equipment unfit for war when you need it the most. The spares have been supplied in shortest time with no clauses and no extra cost. They did not even stop us or demand extra money when we had to rewire M2K during Kargil war for LGBs. Russians till date have not allowed us to use our own ammo and Barrels for T-90 tanks. They have infact even refused full TOT even after signing the deal and we still have to import a substantial part of T-90 from Russia for India built T-90.
Did it ever occur to any member here that while French have been the most reliable friend of India for weapons tilldate, We bought Mystere and Orag from them, why did we go totally into the lap of Russians after the death of Lal Bahadur Shastri? Who got benefitted the most? Who was about to be sent out of India forever to UK by Shastri and what did this person do as return benefit to USSR? Did Shastri die or was he eliminated to make way for a russian agent to take over India at the request of this agent who offered to be an agent of USSR forever?
Zero marks for getting it right.
（译者：抱怨一大堆，大致讲的是买俄罗斯、美国的武器多么多么不靠谱，处处限制和阻碍印度；而买法国武器多么多么好，没有限制、没有条件、没有拖延，价格也合理些，从反面典型那里证明法国才是印度提供武器的“最可靠朋友”。）
Criminal（印度）回复 Layman（印度）
Extortion sounds like an understatement IMO
这轻描淡写般的敲诈，像国际海事组织说得一样
Layman（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
A diplomatic word for holding something for ransom if i may say....
如果要我说这就像外交圈里的：拿东西换赎金
Criminal（印度）回复Layman（印度）
Now that makes perfect sense
现在成为真理了
Averageamerican（美国）
You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear
你用猪耳朵做不出丝绸钱包
（译者：百度了一下，为美国谚语“比喻用差材料做不出真正好的东西出来”）
Omya（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
your rage against india because we are not buying US fighters ?
well your fault you guys chose the wrong friend during cold war
您对印度的不满是因为我们不卖美国战机吗？
错就错在你们冷战期间选错了朋友。
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Omya（印度）
leave him alone... he is not remained as much entertaining as he was
让他自己一边呆着去。。。他没有保持他一贯以来的搞笑风格
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Himanshu Pandey（印度）
Oh Brother!!!!OBAMA will impose sanctions on you..
Oh兄台！！！奥巴马会制裁你的哦。
Gessler（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
So do we make it out of a donkey's ear like the US?
那么我们能像美国一样用驴耳朵做出它吗？
Criminal（印度）
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile ???
I can't agree with the news,
i think the one Trimurti Mods @Manmohan Yadav (others being @layman and @Himanshu Pandey)
has stated several times every time there is a news like this
"will believe when i see it"
unless officially declared, i ain't believing it
my Mama raised no Idiot, specially when it comes to believing the Chinese
北京购买SU-35是为了后射导弹？
我不同意这个新闻观点
我认为它是（印度）三神一体的模式
（译者：三神为梵天（创造者），毗瑟奴（维系者）和湿婆（毁灭者））
每次类似的新闻出来后我一直说：“当看到它时我要相信”
除非正式宣布，否则我是不会相信的
我妈说别犯傻，特别是去相信中国人的时候。
Manmohan Yadav（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
yup your smart
嗯，你很聪明
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
then your mama raised a bright kid
那么看来你妈妈告诉的是一个聪明的小孩哈。
Marqueur（印度）
zero for me
对我来说就是个屁。
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html
印度防卫网：北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35。根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。根据《人民日报》报道，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com译者：ngageboy龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com原帖：http://www.indiandefence.com/for ... firing-missile.html
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile
北京为了后射导弹而购买Su-35
China has decided to purchase Su-35 fighter from Russia because it is able to launch rearward-firing missiles, according to senior colonel Wu Guohui, an associate professor at Beijing's National Defense University.
The Russia-designed R-73M2, R-74ME missiles, US-designed by AIM-9X and the China-designed PL-10 all have the capability of being launched against enemy aircraft from the back of the aircraft, according to the Party-run People's Daily. The missile has a "nose cone" over the rocket engine and modified fins to prevent instability problems while briefly flying backwards after launch.
根据北京国防大学副教授、大校吴国辉声称，中国已经决定从俄罗斯购买SU-35战机，因为它能够发射“后射”导弹。
根据党控《人民日报》报道说，俄罗斯设计的R-73M2和R-74ME导弹，美国设计的AIM-9X和中国设计的PL-10导弹都具有从飞机发射出去后向后攻击敌机的能力。导弹有一个“头锥”在火箭发动机后方，并改进了弹翼防止发射后向后飞行时出现的不稳定问题。
The birth of rearward-firing missiles has changed the concept of aerial warfare, according to Wu. In regular air-to-air combat, a fighter must shoot down its enemy from behind. With rearward-firing missiles and a a rearview display mounted on the helmet of the pilot, fighter pilots in the future can attack their target from the front.
China has no proper fighter yet capable of launching such a missile during actual combat. The Su-35 will be incorporated into the PLA Air Force to help pilots and the aviation industry get a feel for the new mode of combat. In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.
据吴声称，后射导弹的出现改变了空战的概念。常规空战时，战机必须在敌机后方将其击落。依靠后射导弹和安装在飞行员头盔上的后视显示屏，未来的战机飞行员可以从正面攻击他们的目标了。
在实战中，中国还没有适合的战斗机来发射这种导弹。SU-35未来加入中国解放军空军后，可以帮助飞行员和航空业得到一些全新的作战方式。在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
以下为印度网友留言：
译者：ngageboy
来源：三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7731-1-1.html
Gessler（印度）
NOPE. Su-35 is being bought because -
1) China's perceived "super flankers" such as the AESA-equipped J-11B and rumored J-16 are nothing but repainted Su-27SKs. They have no AESA radar, they don't even have a PESA. Just the same old MSA as the Su-27/J-11A did, albeit with improvements.
2) The engine problem. Some J-11B prototypes have been fitted with WS-10 engines so far, but it does not seem the new Chinese engine is giving any satisfactory performance, as there are pictures to prove that many J-10B/J-11B/J-15 (which were meant to use WS-10), are still using large numbers of AL-31FN engines.
The WS-10 is meant to be an improvement over the less-powerful (albeit far more reliable) AL-31FN, with the principle betterment being an increased level of AB thrust. But the poor hot section life, TBO & MBTF of the WS-10's core, key hot-section components and pressure fans means it is more of a liability to PLAAF rather than an improvement, when compared to existing AL-31FN.
So the most obvious solution for China now is to try and get new engine technology from Russia in the form of the new Saturn 117S models.
3) China needs a new high-end Flanker to counter the jets being procured by India, Japan & SK. The present J-10A and J-11A, while being numerous, are inadequate technology-wise. And will be more so by the end of the decade.
不对，买SU-35是因为：
1， 中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU-27SKS而已。他们根本没有有源相控阵雷达，甚至连“无源相控阵技术（PESA）都没有。只是一种经过改进，类似SU-27/J-11A的旧机械扫描技术雷达（MSA）。
2， 在发动机问题上。到目前为止，虽然一些J-11B原型机已经装备了WS-10发动机，但新的国产发动机似乎并没有达到令人满意的效果，因为有照片为证，许多J-10B/J-11B/J-15(意味着使用WS-10)，仍在大量使用AL-31FN发动机。
WS-10是为了改善动力不够强（尽管更可靠）的AL-31FN，目的是为AB型增加推力级别。但是热端部件寿命短，WS-10核心是大修间隔时间（TBO）和平均无故障工作时间（MBTF），关键的热端部件和空气压缩叶扇（不良）意味着解放军空军将承担更多风险，相比现在的AL-31FN来说并不是一进步。
所以现在中国最显而易见的解决方案是尝试从俄罗斯新的土星-117S型发动机上获得新技术。
3， 中国需要一款型的“高端侧卫”来应对印度、日本、韩国的战机采购计划。目前的J-10A和J-11A已经够多，已不够智能化。而且未来十年后会更明显。
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
I think PLAAF should go on war with some powerful country and then they will find out that there numbers are just insufficient against a few just due to lack of technology, there fighters will be nothing more than sitting ducks for some better airforces of the world who's names i'll not mention. Because one of the most powerful airforces in the world is not fool to spend Billions every year. They will get there a$$es whipped in case of any misadventure.
我认为中国空军应该去和一些强国打一战，那时他们会发现这几项（技术）是不足以对抗一批只是缺乏技术（的旧战机的）。那些战机将什么都不是，不用我说他们只比世上一些由鸭子坐着（驾驶）的空军好些而已（译者：貌似是吐槽巴基斯坦空军）。因为世界上每年花数十亿的最强空军之一也不是傻子。他们如发生任何意外事故都将会被鞭臀的。
UlJUH（印度）
Do we have any plans of procuring Su-35?
我们有啥采购SU-35的计划吗？
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
No, upgrading Su-30MKI to Super Sukhoi will make it the ultimate Flanker.
Do rest assured.
没有，升级SU-30MKI而成的超级侧卫，将成为终极侧卫
尽管放心吧
UlJUH（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
（节选）
Also Top speed of su 30mki is 2,120 km/h and of su-35 is 2,500 km/h
Unit cost of su30mki is 25,000,000 USD and of su-35 is 40,000,000–65,000,000 USD (2013)
My perception is "mehnga hai toh behthar hai" or is the lower cost of su30mki becoz of joint development. Please shed some light.
此外SU-30MKI的最高时速为2120公里，SU-35为2500公里，SU-30MKI的单价为2500万美元，SU-35为4000万-6500万美元。
我的看法是"mehnga hai toh behthar hai"或因为共同开发使得SU-30MKI的成本更低。请给些启发。
Gessler（印度）回复UlJUH（印度）
The cost of present-day Su-30MKI is much higher than $25 million.
Super MKI will get uprated engine with 20% more thrust, that will help increase both max speed & maximum non-AB speed, possibly giving it supercruise.
It will get a new AESA radar (not Zhuk-AE as being claimed by journos), much more powerful than Su-35 PESA radar. It will comparable to PAK-FA AESA.
Most of Super MKI's avionics & subsystems will be derived from those developed for PAK-FA. This alone will make it much ahead of Su-35.
We are yet to see the actual RCS values of new Super MKI, because we don't yet know what kind of RCS-reduction measures are being taken.
现在SU-30MKI的成本远远高于2500万美元了。
超级（SU-30）MKI将获得提升20%推力的大功率发动机，这将有助于提高最大速度和最大NON-AB速度，甚至实现超音速巡航。
它会装上一部新的有源相控阵雷达（不是媒体声称的Zhuk-AE），比装备无源相控阵雷达的SU-35强大得多了。甚至可以和“未来战术航空综合系统”（PAK-FA）的有源相控阵雷达相媲美了。
（译者：俄罗斯的T-50也是PAK-FA项目的一部分）
超级（SU-30）MKI的大部分航空电子设备和配套子系统都开发自PAK-FA。仅凭这一点就使它比SU-35更先进了。
我们还没有看到新超级（SU-30）MKI雷达反射面积（RCS）的实际数值。因为我们还不知道它正在采取什么措施使雷达反射面积降低。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
we are expecting it by Mid 2014, right ??
我们正在期待2014年的中旬，对吗？
Gessler（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
Hard to say. Let's see if something is said during St. Antony's visit to Rossiya.
很难说。让我们看看圣安东尼（译者：印度国防部长）访问俄罗斯期间怎么说吧。
Criminal（印度）回复Gessler（印度）
St. Antony ??
wow bro. that was like so totally random
圣安东尼？？
Wow兄弟，这完全是随即的（表情：倒地笑滚）
Vstol Jockey（印度）
“In the future, China will be able to make its own modifications from the Su-35 model.”
The last line says it all. More chinese copies and with full knowledge of Russia. Do we still put our money into Pak-Fa?
在未来，中国可以利用SU35为原型，自己做出一些改进。
最后一句说明了一切。会有更多中国的仿制品并对俄罗斯（技术）充分了解。而我们却仍然把钱砸进PAK-FA？
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
I feel there is gonna be extortion again like the Carrier, And there is not much levey considering the fact that there is no exclusivity also there are none other than 2 partners in design and development phase. What are we gonna get may be a priced stallion at the price of a Dinosaur.
我觉得这是要像航母一样敲诈（我们）一番，并不费脑子的事实是，没其他选择了，（世界上）也没有其他可以双方一起设计、开发的合作伙伴了。这就是为什么我们买头“种马”却花了“恐龙”价的原因。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
I find no rational in IN being forced to lease another Akula for 10 yrs for a price for which we can ask French DCNS to deliver three Scorpene with AIP from their shipyards while we set up our own line in Mumbai.
Pls remember that hulls of two more Arihant are ready and nearly 70% fitted out. Why shud we waste our money on Akula of first generation? The Italian waitress is the agent of old KGB and now Russia, she has no love for this nation or its defence forces.
The Paupers of Turin, Italy are now Billionaires with no known source of income.
我发现印度海军被迫租十年的另一艘阿库拉的价格不合理，我们都可以买三艘法国DCNS公司提供不依赖空气动力（AIP）的鮋鱼潜艇了，我们可以在孟买设立自己的（生产）线。
请记住，双壳体的歼敌者已经准备就绪，舾装进度70%了。为什么我们还要浪费钱财在第一代的阿库拉上？意大利女服务员（译者：貌似指索尼娅甘地）是老克格勃和现在俄罗斯的代办，她不爱这个的国家和军队。
都灵的贫民，意大利现在成了亿万富翁，因为有了未知的收入来源
Layman（印度）回复Vstol Jockey（印度）
Nothing more i can add to the brilliance stated by a Ace.
Seems like India wants to keep Russia in the leash... That would be the only explanation for the going on negotiations for the Subs.
我没啥好再加的了
印度好像是被俄罗斯拿根纤绳拴着的。。。这就是潜艇谈判的唯一解释。
Vstol Jockey（印度）回复Layman（印度）
The way we are dragging the conclusion of these deals, we will be left with no choice but to ask french to make most of the equipment in their facilities as the time taken to set up similar facilities in India will not get shortened. There are already rumours that IAF & MOD is negotiating for a lower price of Rafale to increase the number of ready built planes from DS in France. If you guys may remember, this is what happenned with every aircraft deal which India has signed. The story of Jags, Hawks, SU-30s will be reapeated for Rafale also. But I do not mind it for Rafale as we are getting a good product from most reliable friends that we had till date. Unlike russians, they stuck to their time schedules and did not fleece us. They are good with spares supply and do not have clauses like Americans which can render your entire equipment unfit for war when you need it the most. The spares have been supplied in shortest time with no clauses and no extra cost. They did not even stop us or demand extra money when we had to rewire M2K during Kargil war for LGBs. Russians till date have not allowed us to use our own ammo and Barrels for T-90 tanks. They have infact even refused full TOT even after signing the deal and we still have to import a substantial part of T-90 from Russia for India built T-90.
Did it ever occur to any member here that while French have been the most reliable friend of India for weapons tilldate, We bought Mystere and Orag from them, why did we go totally into the lap of Russians after the death of Lal Bahadur Shastri? Who got benefitted the most? Who was about to be sent out of India forever to UK by Shastri and what did this person do as return benefit to USSR? Did Shastri die or was he eliminated to make way for a russian agent to take over India at the request of this agent who offered to be an agent of USSR forever?
Zero marks for getting it right.
（译者：抱怨一大堆，大致讲的是买俄罗斯、美国的武器多么多么不靠谱，处处限制和阻碍印度；而买法国武器多么多么好，没有限制、没有条件、没有拖延，价格也合理些，从反面典型那里证明法国才是印度提供武器的“最可靠朋友”。）
Criminal（印度）回复 Layman（印度）
Extortion sounds like an understatement IMO
这轻描淡写般的敲诈，像国际海事组织说得一样
Layman（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
A diplomatic word for holding something for ransom if i may say....
如果要我说这就像外交圈里的：拿东西换赎金
Criminal（印度）回复Layman（印度）
Now that makes perfect sense
现在成为真理了
Averageamerican（美国）
You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear
你用猪耳朵做不出丝绸钱包
（译者：百度了一下，为美国谚语“比喻用差材料做不出真正好的东西出来”）
Omya（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
your rage against india because we are not buying US fighters ?
well your fault you guys chose the wrong friend during cold war
您对印度的不满是因为我们不卖美国战机吗？
错就错在你们冷战期间选错了朋友。
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Omya（印度）
leave him alone... he is not remained as much entertaining as he was
让他自己一边呆着去。。。他没有保持他一贯以来的搞笑风格
The Drdo Guy（印度）回复Himanshu Pandey（印度）
Oh Brother!!!!OBAMA will impose sanctions on you..
Oh兄台！！！奥巴马会制裁你的哦。
Gessler（印度）回复Averageamerican（美国）
So do we make it out of a donkey's ear like the US?
那么我们能像美国一样用驴耳朵做出它吗？
Criminal（印度）
Beijing purchases Su-35 for rearward-firing missile ???
I can't agree with the news,
i think the one Trimurti Mods @Manmohan Yadav (others being @layman and @Himanshu Pandey)
has stated several times every time there is a news like this
"will believe when i see it"
unless officially declared, i ain't believing it
my Mama raised no Idiot, specially when it comes to believing the Chinese
北京购买SU-35是为了后射导弹？
我不同意这个新闻观点
我认为它是（印度）三神一体的模式
（译者：三神为梵天（创造者），毗瑟奴（维系者）和湿婆（毁灭者））
每次类似的新闻出来后我一直说：“当看到它时我要相信”
除非正式宣布，否则我是不会相信的
我妈说别犯傻，特别是去相信中国人的时候。
Manmohan Yadav（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
yup your smart
嗯，你很聪明
Himanshu Pandey（印度）回复Criminal（印度）
then your mama raised a bright kid
那么看来你妈妈告诉的是一个聪明的小孩哈。
Marqueur（印度）
zero for me
对我来说就是个屁。
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-247216-1-1.html
印度斯坦的东东也能信？貌似三哥对歼敌者信心爆棚啊
三哥来刷存在感
“中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU-27SKS而已。他们根本没有有源相控阵雷达，甚至连“无源相控阵技术（PESA）都没有。只是一种经过改进，类似SU-27/J-11A的旧机械扫描技术雷达（MSA）。”
我说，苏35我们买定了吗？许其亮去俄罗斯了，这是要干什么？
三哥还有人知道歼11B和歼16啊，对中国很了解嘛。
三哥还有人知道歼11B和歼16啊，对中国很了解嘛。
jianbing3hao 发表于 2013-11-2 21:28
“中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU ...
歼11B确实没有装备AESA吧？
“中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU ...
歼11B确实没有装备AESA吧？我算是知道为什么印度买武器总杯具了，原来总是选错重点，人家都要发动机和雷达，他偏选中后射导弹
PS：租阿库拉有索尼娅甘地什么事啊，人家一个外国人不远万里嫁到印度，最后还因为印度的中二行为成了寡妇，真不明白为什么阿三总是针对她
我算是知道为什么印度买武器总杯具了，原来总是选错重点，人家都要发动机和雷达，他偏选中后射导弹
PS：租阿库拉有索尼娅甘地什么事啊，人家一个外国人不远万里嫁到印度，最后还因为印度的中二行为成了寡妇，真不明白为什么阿三总是针对她
如果真是三哥的料，我只能说面对三哥我已无力吐槽。。。
“中国所谓的“超级侧卫”，即装备了有源相控阵技术（AESA）的J-11B和传闻中的J-16其实都是重新刷层漆的SU ...
淡定淡定，你没有感觉到智商上那种淡淡的优越感么？
淡定淡定，你没有感觉到智商上那种淡淡的优越感么？
lcxpgn 发表于 2013-11-2 21:54
淡定淡定，你没有感觉到智商上那种淡淡的优越感么？
不好意思，偶刚才淡淡的忧伤了一下
淡定淡定，你没有感觉到智商上那种淡淡的优越感么？
不好意思，偶刚才淡淡的忧伤了一下
啥意思 你也要买 ？你要买好说啊 我找毛哥一起坑你 你看咋样
不靠谱，阿三还是多考虑洋葱家里还有没有。