日本心神战机的发动机研制:IHI的信心

但是从日本人的自信来看他们还是有这样的实力的

这句话亮了，哈哈哈哈

阿三比鬼子自信多了，但也未必有那实力。

我们唯一的弱点也是时间问题

不知道国内能否看到,我把该文的第二页贴在这里,发动机度至少1600C (很变态),15吨级, 鬼子的野心是大大的. 我因为没有时间,所以无法翻译成中文

文中提到发动机研发的预算,总共只需要172亿日元? 好像太少了一点. 另外我的对日本人的大概是他们说话还是比较谦虚的(尽管可能对中国人很轻视),不像阿脏国那样瞎吹牛.

  The ministry's plans are evidently firming up, and broadly match a road map for fighter development set out by Japanese industry in 2010. The industry proposal, though, included production of an imported aircraft—now determined to be the F-35—until 2028. While production of the confirmed batch of F-35s, which will replace F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, could not feasibly be stretched until 2028, it is possible that some F-15s could be replaced earlier by additional F-35s before F-3s replace the rest.

The power of the IHI demonstrator engine is surprising. It would generate 50% more thrust than the General Electric F414, two of which power the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The Super Hornet's thrust is not notably high for its empty mass, 14.6 tons (32,100 lb.), but in a twin-engine installation the output of the IHI demonstrator would be abundant for a larger, budget-straining aircraft. It does seem that Japan is looking for a twin aircraft: In a single installation, the engine would be adequate for only a modestly sized fighter, hardly suitable as an F-15 replacement.

Japan has discussed plans for such an engine for some time, but the specific thrust and intention to build a full-scale demonstrator have not been disclosed. Japanese industry revealed a drawing of the engine last year, showing that it would follow the general configuration of the Pratt & Whitney F119 and have a sophisticated arrangement of inlet vanes designed to disrupt radar reflections (AW&ST Feb. 14, 2011, p. 33). In its budget request for the fiscal year beginning April 1, 2013, the ministry has published drawings of three of the engine's modules: fan, high-pressure section and the low-pressure turbine.

The key goal of the engine program is to build an unusually slim turbofan. The low frontal area and the modest bypass ratio evident in drawings would both promote the ability to fly supersonically without afterburner. So would the generous thrust, although 33,000 lb. must be the afterburning rating; the maximum dry output is unknown.

Researchers are aiming to achieve the highest possible temperature at the inlet to the high-pressure turbine, the ministry says in its budget request. They can already achieve 1,600C (2,900F) but want to go higher during the study program, while also reducing engine weight, it says. Mitsubishi Heavy said last year it had achieved a 1,600C turbine inlet temperature, the highest ever, for an electricity-generating engine to be installed in a power station.

Previously disclosed elements of the Japanese engine research include single-crystal turbine rotor blades, stator blades made of ceramic matrix composite (a ceramic reinforced with carbon fiber) and an advanced combustor.

The proposed budget for the fighter engine development is ￥17.2 billion ($218 million), of which ￥4.5 billion would be spent in fiscal 2013. Research would run until fiscal 2017. From fiscal 2015, there would be “testing,” which may mean running the demonstrator.

A Japanese engine would not be needed if the F-3 program were merged into a U.S. fighter program, as industry executives suspect it will, since the U.S. would certainly supply its own powerplant. But by developing an engine, Japan will retain the freedom to power its own fighter should it not come to an agreement with the U.S. And even if it does, technology from the demonstrator might be useful to the U.S.

Japanese participation in the next U.S. fighter program is now conceivable because Tokyo has relaxed its arms-export restrictions, which in the past have largely prevented its industry from working with foreign partners. The way is not entirely open for cooperation, however, since Japan might be reluctant to supply some countries that the U.S. sees as suitable customers.

不知道国内能否看到,我把该文的第二页贴在这里,发动机度至少1600C (很变态),15吨级, 鬼子的野心是大大的. 我因为没有时间,所以无法翻译成中文

文中提到发动机研发的预算,总共只需要172亿日元? 好像太少了一点. 另外我的对日本人的大概是他们说话还是比较谦虚的(尽管可能对中国人很轻视),不像阿脏国那样瞎吹牛.

  The ministry's plans are evidently firming up, and broadly match a road map for fighter development set out by Japanese industry in 2010. The industry proposal, though, included production of an imported aircraft—now determined to be the F-35—until 2028. While production of the confirmed batch of F-35s, which will replace F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, could not feasibly be stretched until 2028, it is possible that some F-15s could be replaced earlier by additional F-35s before F-3s replace the rest.

The power of the IHI demonstrator engine is surprising. It would generate 50% more thrust than the General Electric F414, two of which power the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The Super Hornet's thrust is not notably high for its empty mass, 14.6 tons (32,100 lb.), but in a twin-engine installation the output of the IHI demonstrator would be abundant for a larger, budget-straining aircraft. It does seem that Japan is looking for a twin aircraft: In a single installation, the engine would be adequate for only a modestly sized fighter, hardly suitable as an F-15 replacement.

Japan has discussed plans for such an engine for some time, but the specific thrust and intention to build a full-scale demonstrator have not been disclosed. Japanese industry revealed a drawing of the engine last year, showing that it would follow the general configuration of the Pratt & Whitney F119 and have a sophisticated arrangement of inlet vanes designed to disrupt radar reflections (AW&ST Feb. 14, 2011, p. 33). In its budget request for the fiscal year beginning April 1, 2013, the ministry has published drawings of three of the engine's modules: fan, high-pressure section and the low-pressure turbine.

The key goal of the engine program is to build an unusually slim turbofan. The low frontal area and the modest bypass ratio evident in drawings would both promote the ability to fly supersonically without afterburner. So would the generous thrust, although 33,000 lb. must be the afterburning rating; the maximum dry output is unknown.

Researchers are aiming to achieve the highest possible temperature at the inlet to the high-pressure turbine, the ministry says in its budget request. They can already achieve 1,600C (2,900F) but want to go higher during the study program, while also reducing engine weight, it says. Mitsubishi Heavy said last year it had achieved a 1,600C turbine inlet temperature, the highest ever, for an electricity-generating engine to be installed in a power station.

Previously disclosed elements of the Japanese engine research include single-crystal turbine rotor blades, stator blades made of ceramic matrix composite (a ceramic reinforced with carbon fiber) and an advanced combustor.

The proposed budget for the fighter engine development is ￥17.2 billion ($218 million), of which ￥4.5 billion would be spent in fiscal 2013. Research would run until fiscal 2017. From fiscal 2015, there would be “testing,” which may mean running the demonstrator.

A Japanese engine would not be needed if the F-3 program were merged into a U.S. fighter program, as industry executives suspect it will, since the U.S. would certainly supply its own powerplant. But by developing an engine, Japan will retain the freedom to power its own fighter should it not come to an agreement with the U.S. And even if it does, technology from the demonstrator might be useful to the U.S.

Japanese participation in the next U.S. fighter program is now conceivable because Tokyo has relaxed its arms-export restrictions, which in the past have largely prevented its industry from working with foreign partners. The way is not entirely open for cooperation, however, since Japan might be reluctant to supply some countries that the U.S. sees as suitable customers.

这里有翻译
http://baike.baidu.com/view/8216114.htm?fromId=324628

老美现在开始开发一台和119同水平的发动机也要20年。何况日本

mrj 向你问好！

自信=实力？

即使基础工业过关还是会在系统整合方面遇到问题的，航空发动机不容易搞。

出来再说。出来再说。来自: iPhone客户端

有一个问题我一直都不懂:

     日本现在的财政预算是比较困难,但是从国防预算500亿增加到900亿美元,这400亿只相当于GDP的0.76%,我不觉得有什么难处啊? 况且日本的技术在大部分领域内还是优于中国的,要是拼命搞起国防领域的开发还是让我们中国非常非常难受的(看看他们的苍龙和100架防潜飞机就明白了,要是拼命搞起国防还会在更多领域内给我们压力),尽管他们比不过美国,但是日本不需要NMD,2000架F-35, DD-1000,B-2等吞金居兽,况且没有在全球部署的压力.
     我觉得任何时候强烈的忧患意识还是非常重要的!

nra1941 发表于 2013-8-24 14:37
有一个问题我一直都不懂:

     日本现在的财政预算是比较困难,但是从国防预算500亿增加到900亿美元,这40 ...
日本确实不需要吞金兽，但日本军事武器的订购量可能会让任意一种武器变成吞金兽，相比军费的话，土鳖压力不大。

楼主，印度人更有自信！

我觉得日本应该没问题，能成功的，不过不会早于WS-15

172亿——这点钱够干点啥

美国转让部分技术怎么办！！~

连p1那入门级大函道比小推都搞不定的主究竟哪来的勇气和脸皮。。。

哈哈，还记得IDF教主吹牛逼脚盆高温合金全球领先么，咋到了工程实际还是只敢用到1800K这级的嘛哈哈，看起来也不比材料苦手土鳖要强哪里去嘛，更不要说172亿日元……准备叫美国佬帮你烧钱做试验？我看这货是脚盆用来钓F135的计划哈哈。

楼主相信日本？
日本说福岛核事故没死一个人，呵呵
日本说东京安全，可东京发现了的高放射性区域。放射性物质怎么到那里的呢？
你要相信日本就去日本旅游，吃日本海鲜吧

只能说日本的制造基础和材料基础有利于做这个项目，但是能做和会做，会做和做好是有巨大区别的，对照日本，中国，美国。

只能说日本的制造基础和材料基础有利于做这个项目，但是能做和会做，会做和做好是有巨大区别的，对照日本，中国，美国。

MD阉割了脚盆的航空业,LZ你说脚盆能研制成功吗

吹牛的脚盆，美帝都造不出十五吨的中推，脚盆就能，那是天顶星技术。

心神项目还在推进？

15T是大推吧.如果是中推,推重比得14了，MD的F414 EpE的推重比才11啊，估计得用变循环技术才能搞定了
泥轰还是和波音合作，把F15拍扁吧

15T是大推吧.如果是中推,推重比得14了，MD的F414 EpE的推重比才11啊，估计得用变循环技术才能搞定了
泥轰还是和波音合作，把F15拍扁吧

貌似泥轰F2比F35还贵，另外哪篇英文章很早就有人贴过了

nra1941 发表于 2013-8-24 14:37 有一个问题我一直都不懂: 日本现在的财政预算是比较困难,但是从国防预算500亿增加到900亿美元,这40 ...

貌似泥轰F2比F35还贵，另外哪篇英文章很早就有人贴过了

matrix2388 发表于 2013-8-24 15:23
只能说日本的制造基础和材料基础有利于做这个项目，但是能做和会做，会做和做好是有巨大区别的，对照日本， ...
日本的防务产业，技术的限制不是主要的，甚至也不是MD的限制，主要是国内政治的限制。
不过武器出口三原则已开始松动，未来几年或发生重大变化。内外交困、人心思变，社民党怕是顶不住了。
低端成熟技术，东南亚、印度市场需求巨大；尖端技术与MD合作前景广阔。TG不可掉以轻心。

小鬼子已经落后了，估计追不上的。

涡轮院和歌星厂标示对2020前研制和制造变循环发动机有着相当的自信

日本不会有野心跨越式搞变循环吧，根据战机服役的年代来看。
日本有部分现成的成熟技术，但自研发动机一直不是日本的国家战略，不知道日本的美利坚买办们有没有能力把这个项目搅黄喽。

不过2012年的旧闻现在拿出来炒冷饭干嘛？

看头像，可知LZ喜欢巨乳

日本人一定要做的话，应该能做出来，但未必就比我们快。
但是，日本做这个有一定的政治风险，所以，不一定能下决心做。
更重要的是，如果真只给176亿日元，那就是个笑话，难道做个发动机模型吗？

nra1941 发表于 2013-8-24 14:37
有一个问题我一直都不懂:

     日本现在的财政预算是比较困难,但是从国防预算500亿增加到900亿美元,这40 ...
政府的负债率太高了，太多的收入变成了利息，入不敷出

小本子的高空试验台在哪呢

lixiaoyong 发表于 2013-8-24 15:45
15T是大推吧.如果是中推,推重比得14了，MD的F414 EpE的推重比才11啊，估计得用变循环技术才能搞定了
泥轰还 ...
变循环数据显示只能增加10个点左右的推力

不知所谓 发表于 2013-8-24 17:31
日本人一定要做的话，应该能做出来，但未必就比我们快。
但是，日本做这个有一定的政治风险，所以，不一定 ...
有可能只是启动资金，就算政府愿意投资，也没办法一下把坑给填平，只能一点一点投入。

hlferd 发表于 2013-8-24 16:29
日本的防务产业，技术的限制不是主要的，甚至也不是MD的限制，主要是国内政治的限制。
不过武器出口三原 ...
你错了，武器市场技术并不是首要的因素；政治和军事实力才是武器市场决定性的因素，不看好脚盆武器出口的前景，

15T？我们也很需要啊，希望小日本慢慢来，不要飞到我们前面去了。。。