转帖）美国《防务消息》* 俄罗斯： 中俄没有潜艇战机销 ...

Russia: No Deal on Sale of Fighters,Subs to China
俄罗斯： 中俄没有潜艇战机销售协议
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130325/DEFREG03/303250014/Russia-No-Deal-Sale-Fighters-Subs-China?odyssey=nav%7Chead

TAIPEI — Russia is denying Chinese media claims thatMoscow and Beijing have signed agreements to sell Russian-made arms andmilitary technology to China, including 24 Su-35 multirole fighter jets andfour Amur-class diesel submarines.
台北-俄罗斯方面否认了中国媒体关于北京同莫斯科签署了进口包括24架苏-35多用途战斗机和4艘阿穆尔级柴油潜艇的俄制武器及军事科技的报道。

During a recent visitby Chinese President Xi Jinping to Moscow from Friday to Sunday, no discussionstook place regarding “military-technical cooperation” issues, the ITAR-TASSnews agency reported Monday. This was in response to an earlierreport by China’s CCTVon the same day.
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俄通社-塔斯社周一报道，中国主席Xi最近对莫斯科的访问没有涉及关于“军事科技合作”问题的谈判。这是对央视同日早先报道的回应。

“The Kremlin is officially denying even discussingarms trade during Xi’s visit,” said Vasiliy Kashin, a China military specialistat the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).“In Russia-China relations, specific arms trade contracts are almost neverdiscussed by the top leaders, just the general approaches.”

“克林姆林宫官方否认了在习访问期间讨论过军火贸易问题，”莫斯科战略与科技分析中心（CAST）的VasiliyKashin 表示，“中俄关系中，高层访问通常讨论大局问题而不会涉及到具体的合同。”

Another defenseindustry source in Russia said there are strong reservations about going forwardon the memorandum of understanding signed in December to explore the sale ofthe twin-engine Su-35s and Amur submarines to China.

另一俄罗斯国防工业的消息来源称有关方面对推进去年12月达成的销售双引擎苏-35和阿穆尔潜艇的谅解备忘录持保留意见。

Chinaintentionally violated intellectual property right (IPR) agreements when itcopied and manufactured Russia’s Su-27 fighter as the J-11B, according toRussia.

俄罗斯方面认为，俄罗斯苏-27的中国版歼11b是对知识产权协定的故意侵犯。

In 1995, Chinasecured a production deal with Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed the J-11A,for $2.5 billion for the Shenyang Aircraft Corp. In 2006, Russia canceled thedeal after 95 aircraft when it discovered China had reverse-engineered thefighter and was secretly manufacturing an indigenous copy, the J-11B, withChinese-made avionics and engines.

1995年，中国沈阳飞机制造公司（112厂）从俄罗斯获得了总金额为25亿美元的生产200架苏27SK的生产许可证（中名J-11A）。2006年由于发现中方逆向工程了苏-27并在秘密生产其本土化版歼11B，俄罗斯在沈阳生产了95架飞机之后单方面终止了合同。

There are strong suspicions China will procure thetechnological know-how of the Su-35 and Amur and simply produce an indigenousversion.

俄罗斯非常怀疑中国会在获得了苏-35的技术后转而生产又一本土化版本。

But not all agree.Gary Li, a senior analyst at London-based IHS Fairplay, said China’s researchand development have moved forward.

但也有不同的意见。伦敦的HIS Fairplay （译注：一家海事信息公司）的Gary 李表示中国的研究发展已取得了长足的进步。

“It no longer will seek to directly reverse engineereverything it buys, but maybe adopt parts of the platform for other projects[and] integrate into domestic designs,” he said.

“中国已不再试图逆向工程所有的进口产品，而更倾向于吸收进口项目的平台并将其同本土产品整合。

There also areconcerns China wants access to the Su-35’s Saturn AL-117S engine, which isoutfitted on the T-50, a prototype of Russia’s fifth-generation Sukhoi PAK FAstealth fighter.

也有人担心中国会获取苏35的土星AL-117S引擎 - 该引擎也被用在名为苏霍伊PAK FA的俄罗斯5代隐形战斗机原型机T50上。

However, Kashinsaid the risks of selling the Russian engine to China are negligible.

但卡辛表示这样的担心毫无必要，“买到了引擎不代表你就能拷贝它。”
“An engine cannot be copied by obtaining a sample,” he said.Li said he couldenvision Chinese aerospace engineers studying the aircraft’s engine and thrust-vectoringfor future inclusion, as well as the Amur sub’s air-independent propulsion, butit will still be more than a decade before China will stop having to orderengines to replace “worn-out ones,” as it has been doing with the J-11 and J-10fighters.

李称他可以预见中国的空气动力工程师们会努力获取飞机引擎、矢量推力和阿穆尔的AIP推进技术，但仍会需要在超过十年里从俄罗斯进口引擎来取代“用废了的”- 和歼10和歼11项目一样。

“It always takes afew years before they can make a domestic alternative,” Li said.

“他们通常会在本土化方面花上几年时间”李说。
Kashin cautionsthat a Chinese attempt to copy the Su-35, as they did with the Su-27, would bemore difficult, “because this time, our Ukrainian ‘brothers’ cannot help themby selling the Chinese all the technology they lacked for a handful of dollars.I think the Amur situation will be generally the same.”

卡辛对中国会像抄袭苏27一样抄袭苏35的可能持谨慎态度：“因为这一次，我们的乌克兰‘兄弟’将不能再把所有的技术秘密一股脑地贱卖给中国人了。阿穆尔的情况也应该大体类似。

”Ukraine has beenaccused of selling China former Soviet defense technologies, but it has noaccess to information regarding newer systems, such as the Su-35 and Amur.

乌克兰曾被指责向中国出售前苏联科技，但乌没有接近更新的武器系统的渠道，比如苏35和阿穆尔潜艇。

“The Amur ultimateyisn’t a strategic submarine, and as Russia’s interests in the Far East are notyet that ambitious, they can afford to sell them to China,” Li said. “Howbetter to keep the U.S. pivot off their backs?”

“但说到底阿穆尔不是战略潜艇，而且俄罗斯在远东也没什么野心勃勃的计划，出售给中国是可以接受的，”李说，“还有什么更好的办法摆脱美国的战略注意吗？” （完）

译注：据央视《今日关注》栏目报道，习访俄前，中俄两国签订了4艘阿穆尔级AIP潜艇与24架苏35战机的协定。但就各国多家媒体的消息，央视的报道有夸张嫌疑。即使确有谈判，离协议的签订尚有距离。
龙腾帖子地址：http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-153817-1-1.html
Russia: No Deal on Sale of Fighters,Subs to China
俄罗斯： 中俄没有潜艇战机销售协议
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130325/DEFREG03/303250014/Russia-No-Deal-Sale-Fighters-Subs-China?odyssey=nav%7Chead

TAIPEI — Russia is denying Chinese media claims thatMoscow and Beijing have signed agreements to sell Russian-made arms andmilitary technology to China, including 24 Su-35 multirole fighter jets andfour Amur-class diesel submarines.
台北-俄罗斯方面否认了中国媒体关于北京同莫斯科签署了进口包括24架苏-35多用途战斗机和4艘阿穆尔级柴油潜艇的俄制武器及军事科技的报道。

During a recent visitby Chinese President Xi Jinping to Moscow from Friday to Sunday, no discussionstook place regarding “military-technical cooperation” issues, the ITAR-TASSnews agency reported Monday. This was in response to an earlierreport by China’s CCTVon the same day.
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
俄通社-塔斯社周一报道，中国主席Xi最近对莫斯科的访问没有涉及关于“军事科技合作”问题的谈判。这是对央视同日早先报道的回应。

“The Kremlin is officially denying even discussingarms trade during Xi’s visit,” said Vasiliy Kashin, a China military specialistat the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).“In Russia-China relations, specific arms trade contracts are almost neverdiscussed by the top leaders, just the general approaches.”

“克林姆林宫官方否认了在习访问期间讨论过军火贸易问题，”莫斯科战略与科技分析中心（CAST）的VasiliyKashin 表示，“中俄关系中，高层访问通常讨论大局问题而不会涉及到具体的合同。”

Another defenseindustry source in Russia said there are strong reservations about going forwardon the memorandum of understanding signed in December to explore the sale ofthe twin-engine Su-35s and Amur submarines to China.

另一俄罗斯国防工业的消息来源称有关方面对推进去年12月达成的销售双引擎苏-35和阿穆尔潜艇的谅解备忘录持保留意见。

Chinaintentionally violated intellectual property right (IPR) agreements when itcopied and manufactured Russia’s Su-27 fighter as the J-11B, according toRussia.

俄罗斯方面认为，俄罗斯苏-27的中国版歼11b是对知识产权协定的故意侵犯。

In 1995, Chinasecured a production deal with Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed the J-11A,for $2.5 billion for the Shenyang Aircraft Corp. In 2006, Russia canceled thedeal after 95 aircraft when it discovered China had reverse-engineered thefighter and was secretly manufacturing an indigenous copy, the J-11B, withChinese-made avionics and engines.

1995年，中国沈阳飞机制造公司（112厂）从俄罗斯获得了总金额为25亿美元的生产200架苏27SK的生产许可证（中名J-11A）。2006年由于发现中方逆向工程了苏-27并在秘密生产其本土化版歼11B，俄罗斯在沈阳生产了95架飞机之后单方面终止了合同。

There are strong suspicions China will procure thetechnological know-how of the Su-35 and Amur and simply produce an indigenousversion.

俄罗斯非常怀疑中国会在获得了苏-35的技术后转而生产又一本土化版本。

But not all agree.Gary Li, a senior analyst at London-based IHS Fairplay, said China’s researchand development have moved forward.

但也有不同的意见。伦敦的HIS Fairplay （译注：一家海事信息公司）的Gary 李表示中国的研究发展已取得了长足的进步。

“It no longer will seek to directly reverse engineereverything it buys, but maybe adopt parts of the platform for other projects[and] integrate into domestic designs,” he said.

“中国已不再试图逆向工程所有的进口产品，而更倾向于吸收进口项目的平台并将其同本土产品整合。

There also areconcerns China wants access to the Su-35’s Saturn AL-117S engine, which isoutfitted on the T-50, a prototype of Russia’s fifth-generation Sukhoi PAK FAstealth fighter.

也有人担心中国会获取苏35的土星AL-117S引擎 - 该引擎也被用在名为苏霍伊PAK FA的俄罗斯5代隐形战斗机原型机T50上。

However, Kashinsaid the risks of selling the Russian engine to China are negligible.

但卡辛表示这样的担心毫无必要，“买到了引擎不代表你就能拷贝它。”
“An engine cannot be copied by obtaining a sample,” he said.Li said he couldenvision Chinese aerospace engineers studying the aircraft’s engine and thrust-vectoringfor future inclusion, as well as the Amur sub’s air-independent propulsion, butit will still be more than a decade before China will stop having to orderengines to replace “worn-out ones,” as it has been doing with the J-11 and J-10fighters.

李称他可以预见中国的空气动力工程师们会努力获取飞机引擎、矢量推力和阿穆尔的AIP推进技术，但仍会需要在超过十年里从俄罗斯进口引擎来取代“用废了的”- 和歼10和歼11项目一样。

“It always takes afew years before they can make a domestic alternative,” Li said.

“他们通常会在本土化方面花上几年时间”李说。
Kashin cautionsthat a Chinese attempt to copy the Su-35, as they did with the Su-27, would bemore difficult, “because this time, our Ukrainian ‘brothers’ cannot help themby selling the Chinese all the technology they lacked for a handful of dollars.I think the Amur situation will be generally the same.”

卡辛对中国会像抄袭苏27一样抄袭苏35的可能持谨慎态度：“因为这一次，我们的乌克兰‘兄弟’将不能再把所有的技术秘密一股脑地贱卖给中国人了。阿穆尔的情况也应该大体类似。

”Ukraine has beenaccused of selling China former Soviet defense technologies, but it has noaccess to information regarding newer systems, such as the Su-35 and Amur.

乌克兰曾被指责向中国出售前苏联科技，但乌没有接近更新的武器系统的渠道，比如苏35和阿穆尔潜艇。

“The Amur ultimateyisn’t a strategic submarine, and as Russia’s interests in the Far East are notyet that ambitious, they can afford to sell them to China,” Li said. “Howbetter to keep the U.S. pivot off their backs?”

“但说到底阿穆尔不是战略潜艇，而且俄罗斯在远东也没什么野心勃勃的计划，出售给中国是可以接受的，”李说，“还有什么更好的办法摆脱美国的战略注意吗？” （完）

译注：据央视《今日关注》栏目报道，习访俄前，中俄两国签订了4艘阿穆尔级AIP潜艇与24架苏35战机的协定。但就各国多家媒体的消息，央视的报道有夸张嫌疑。即使确有谈判，离协议的签订尚有距离。
龙腾帖子地址：http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-153817-1-1.html