印媒称中国大部制改革为印度提供了借鉴

印媒称中国大部制改革为印度提供了借鉴
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
The Chinese government is preparing to dismantle the ministry that has swaggeringly delivered the world's largest high-speed network over the last few years. This is just one among many measures China is undertaking to reduce corruption and leakages while boosting efficiency and sending a forward-looking signal to the markets. It follows on earlier reforms when more than 40 ministries and commissions in China were cut down to just 29.
中国政府正准备解散过去几年来建造了世界上最大规模高速铁路网的部门。这还只是中国采取的诸多措施中的一项，这些措施旨在减少腐败和漏洞，同时提高效率并向市场传递向前看的信号。通过这些以及此前的改革，中国的40多个部委已经被精简到29个。龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
Now look at India for contrast. The first cabinet of independent India apportioned out only around a dozen portfolios, which had gone up to 42 by 2004. And that number is a whopping 53 now! While such ministerial multiplication has served the cause of coalition politics admirably, it has also encouraged paunchy and improvident governance. This bungling has been worsened by ministries working at cross-purposes. As the cabinet secretariat has said in its annual performance appraisal, most central ministries are working in silos, even though there is no consolation in a team member scoring a double century if the team ends up losing the match.
现在再来看看印度作个对比。印度独立后成立的首个内阁中只有大约12个部长职务，到了2004年已经增加到42个。现在，这个数字已经达到惊人的53个！ 尽管这种部门激增的局面很好地满足了联合执政的目标，但也鼓励了机构臃肿和目光短浅的管理。部门之间职能交错令问题变得更加复杂。（正如内阁秘书处在其年度绩效考核中所说，大多数中央部委.....）
To take the example of railways, why shouldn't it be integrated alongside the road transport and highways ministry, the shipping ministry and the civil aviation ministry within a transport portfolio? If only Air India was denationalised back to its status at Independence, as is suitable for a post-liberalisation nation, the civil aviation ministry would lose its raison d'etre. Or consider how the energy portfolio is (mis)handled by the ministries of coal, petroleum and natural gas, power, new and renewable energy, heavy industries and public enterprises, et al. With so many ministries splitting up the goal of powering India, the big picture suffers while petty politicking flourishes.
以铁道部为例，为什么不能把它与道路运输和公路部、航运部和民航部一起合并成一个运输部？如果印度航空恢复为私营，回归印度独立时的状态，这样适合自由化后的国家，那么民航部就失去存在的理由。又或考虑下能源业务是如何被煤炭、石油天然气、电力、新能源和可再生能源、重工业和公营企业等部门胡乱操作的。如此多部门分化了驱动印度的目标，导致大局混乱的同时，政治小动作不断。
Why, for instance, do we need textiles, steel or information and broadcasting ministries in a liberalised environment? And what on earth, pray, is the job of the ministry of statistics and programme implementation? If other ministries cannot implement their programmes, will setting up a separate ministry dedicated to this help? Add to the incessant setting up of new ministries the innumerable departments and standalone offices that also come up, and you have layers of bureaucracy, each with its own penchant for empire-building, coming in the way of streamlined governance and meaningful work. It's high time the government indulged its common-sense side rather than its maudlin and inflated side, and reversed the trend of mindless multiplication of ministries.
比如，自由化的环境里是否需要纺织部、钢铁部或信息广播部？统计和项目执行部到底是干什么的？如果其他部门不能执行自己的计划，成立一个单独的部门就能起作用吗？随着不断建立新部门而出现的无数科室和独立办事处加剧了这一局面，官僚机构错综复杂，每一个部门有政治扩张的嗜好，阻碍了管理的顺畅展开和有意义工作的推进。政府早该按常识去发展而不是感情用事，要扭转这种盲目增加机构的趋势。

Surya Kiran (德里)
the rail ministry needs to be amalgamated with transport and rail officials put in charge of day to day affairs, planning at higher level
Agree (3)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
铁道部应该并入运输部，铁道部官员负责日常事务，在更高层面进行规划。
rpbajpai (荷兰莱顿市)
The need of the hour is to cut the number of bureaucrats and supporting staff. A ban should be imposed on the expenditure of every ministry. Actual cost to the nation incurred on each minister should be put on the web every month.
Agree (3)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
当前要做的是减少官僚和后勤人员的数量。每个部门的开支应该设个限制，每月的实际开支应该放到网上公示。
janakkumar.singh (印度巴特那)
Suggestions contained are only possible, when a single party with a strong leader wins absolute majority in the election.
Agree (2)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
只有强势领袖领导下的单一政党在选举中赢得绝大多数选票时，这样的建议才具现实可能性。
K Rajasekaran (班加罗尔)
Reducing the number of ministries would be a great economic reforms for the country. Moreover, it delays the decision-making process because of the involvement of so many levels in between. It also gives opportunities for excuses for the delay. Accountability is lost because of shared responsibility. As an economist, our PM should seriously consider the suggestion in the last para.
Agree (2)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
减少部门数量对国家来说是伟大的经济改革。更重要地是，部门臃肿耽搁了决策进程，各级部门会介入进来。此外，还给了官员为延迟找理由的机会。由于是共同担当的责任，问责就失去了作用。我们的总理作为一名经济学家，应该认真考虑最后一段的建议。
Seenu (海德拉巴)
Very amusing article. I agree with most of the points. The jumbo cabinets in india is not because it is required, but it is deliberate. Obviously ministers have many previleges, so more people can be given those previleges. When there is no political will, Chinese lessons will not help.
Agree (7)Disagree (0)Recommend (3)
非常有趣的文章。我同意大多数观点。印度庞大的内阁并非出于所需，而是蓄意而为。很明显，有许多特权的部长越多，就有越多人享受那些特权。如果缺少政治意志，那么中国的经验就无裨益。
venk (village)
I heard that there is a central minister for Toilets . The minister is Mr. Jairam. Is it correct?
Agree (6)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
听说会任命一名厕所部长，该部长是Jairam先生，对吗？
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com

Prakruti Shah (孟买)
How can you even ask to reduce ministries? where will the politicians relatives and friends go? what will be the use of all the taxes collected??
Agree (10)Disagree (0)Recommend (0)
你们怎么能要求减少部门？你叫政客的亲戚和朋友去哪？收上来的税收拿来干什么？
Indiaman (孟买)
Comparing China with India is like comparing sachin tendulkar with a person learning to play cricket.
Agree (8)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)
把中国和印度作比较，就像是把沙奇·德鲁卡和一名学打板球的人作比较。
（三泰虎注： 沙奇·德鲁卡是印度板球明星）
Ajay Kumar (古尔冈，哈利亚纳)
Yes it is true that real reform will come when Government will downsize its ministries and ultimately government expenses will lower. Our Prime Minister should look into this.
如果政府裁剪部门，那么确实能带来实质改革，最终政府开支会降低。我们的总理应该就此调查下。
G srinivas (班加罗尔)
we need only say some 20 ministers that is it, we can close all others, but if this is done the art of making money to the politicians will cease to exist and they will be loosers
我们只需要大约20个部门，其他全部关掉。但要是这样做了，政客的赚钱艺术就会荡然无存，他们会成为输家。
gaurav (德里)
You cant possibly be serious in using 'government' and 'commonsense' in the same sentence unless you include the word "lacks"!
你不能煞有介事地把“政府”和“常识”放在同一个句子中，除非你在中间加“缺少”这个词！
G srinivas (班加罗尔)
Ministry of rural development, agriculture and ecology please be made one
请把农村发展部、农业生态部整合成一个部门。
G srinivas (班加罗尔)
worst is the aviation and shipping minisytry which is 100% not needed
航空和海运部根本就没有存在的必要。
geem (timbak2)
China is offering lessons in a one party totalitarian state as well, why don't we buy it?
Agree (2)Disagree (2)Recommend (0)
中国的一党专制也提供了借鉴，为什么我们不学这个？
samikp10 (印度)
that's quite a good lesson.....but this is India....... unfortunately that's not going to be happen here....ever...
Agree (5)Disagree (0)Recommend (2)
很好的经验.....但这是印度......很不幸，在这里永远行不通......
lakshmi (海德拉巴)
It does not mean that India does not know to downsize government and control expenditure. It simply does not have the will to do.
Agree (8)Disagree (0)Recommend (2)
并非是印度不懂得如何裁剪政府部门和控制开支，其实是缺乏这样做的意志。
gsanjeev1973 (古尔冈)
Indian railway will be split in two ministry - Mamta Railway Deptt & Congress Railway Deptt
印度铁道部将会分裂成两个部门——玛玛塔铁道部和国大党铁道部。
（三泰虎注：玛玛塔·班纳吉是印度铁道部部长）
TANTRA NATH JHA (加尔各答)
CHINA IS A GREAT COUNTRY COUNTRY. THEY NOT ONLY GIVE A LESSON TO STOP CORRUPTION. IF WE FOLLOW THE IDEOLOGY OF CHINA WE ALSO BE A POWERFUL IN NOT ONLY IN ECONOMY ALSO IN DEFENSE. CHINA ALSO TEACH A GOOD LESSON TO US IN CONTROLLING THE POPULATION, MAKE EMPLOYMENT AND FOREIGN POLICY.
Agree (8)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)
中国是一个伟大的国家，能给我们提供借鉴的领域不止在杜绝腐败方面。如果我们信奉中国的意识形态，我们不仅会在经济，也会在国防上成为强大国家。中国在控制人口、创造就业和外交政策方面也给我们提供了很好的经验。
Dwivedi JSK (BSP)
Sorry. In stead, they are mulling over formation of some more like onion ministry, potato ministry etc. etc. to accommodate all of NDA.
抱歉，他们反而在考虑组建更多部门，比如大蒜部、土豆部，以便容下所有人。
Anirudh Dhodapkar (孟买)
Yess,we need to learn this. Fact is that if you have been to one ministry office,you will come to know within minutes that ,what a wastage of manpower and tax payers money. Its not only about lake of accountability but corruption at every level. Its a fact that ,kind of amount we spend on repairing the roads and infrastructure,we would have made the roads across the world for 3 times in last 45 years? There are good thing,we can definitely learn from China,its a fact that corruption is everywhere,but how to control,monitor and punish the guilty quickly,is the best thin\g that we can learn from china.
Agree (3)Disagree (0)Recommend (0)
这个确实该学习。事实上，如果你去一个部门办公室，你几分钟内就会发现多么浪费人力和纳税人的钱。不仅是缺乏问责，而且各级机构腐败泛滥。实际上，我们在修复公路和基础设施方面花的钱，可以修建过去45年来全世界所修三倍长的公路。我们的确该向中国学习，其中如何控制、监管以及迅速惩罚罪犯是我们最该向中国学习的。
Vijayan I (德里)
Over the past few years China has proved to be better than India in almost all respects. While India and Indians never fail to extol, glorify the virtues of democracy, it is China that has stolen a march over India on all things that matter .... be it economic prosperity, defence,quality of life, international relations, corruption in public life etc and so on ... it definately makes me wonder, is democracy really worth it? Our democracy has failed even among our neighbours and as on date we are the lowest in terms of human development not only in the world but also in South Asia .... If democracy is not to blame then what else is ... Basic Indian values? .... again one of those things about whose virtues we cry aloud evrytime..... Plenty to think about isn't it? ....
Agree (6)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)
在过去几年，中国几乎在所有方面证明其比印度更好。印度及其人民从不错过赞美和歌颂皿煮优点的机会，中国却在所有重要方面比印度先行一步......不管是经济繁荣程度、国防水平、生活质量、国际关系，还是遏制公众生活中的腐败等方面都是如此.....这着实让我想知道，皿煮是否划得来？迄今为止，在人类发展指数方面，我们不仅在世界，而且在南亚都是最低的......如果不该怪皿煮，那还有其他什么好怪的.....印度人的基本价值观？......

原文标题：China offers lessons for India in downsizing government by cutting ministries
原文链接：http://timesofindia.indiatimes.c ... leshow/18912793.cms印媒称中国大部制改革为印度提供了借鉴
龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
The Chinese government is preparing to dismantle the ministry that has swaggeringly delivered the world's largest high-speed network over the last few years. This is just one among many measures China is undertaking to reduce corruption and leakages while boosting efficiency and sending a forward-looking signal to the markets. It follows on earlier reforms when more than 40 ministries and commissions in China were cut down to just 29.
中国政府正准备解散过去几年来建造了世界上最大规模高速铁路网的部门。这还只是中国采取的诸多措施中的一项，这些措施旨在减少腐败和漏洞，同时提高效率并向市场传递向前看的信号。通过这些以及此前的改革，中国的40多个部委已经被精简到29个。龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
Now look at India for contrast. The first cabinet of independent India apportioned out only around a dozen portfolios, which had gone up to 42 by 2004. And that number is a whopping 53 now! While such ministerial multiplication has served the cause of coalition politics admirably, it has also encouraged paunchy and improvident governance. This bungling has been worsened by ministries working at cross-purposes. As the cabinet secretariat has said in its annual performance appraisal, most central ministries are working in silos, even though there is no consolation in a team member scoring a double century if the team ends up losing the match.
现在再来看看印度作个对比。印度独立后成立的首个内阁中只有大约12个部长职务，到了2004年已经增加到42个。现在，这个数字已经达到惊人的53个！ 尽管这种部门激增的局面很好地满足了联合执政的目标，但也鼓励了机构臃肿和目光短浅的管理。部门之间职能交错令问题变得更加复杂。（正如内阁秘书处在其年度绩效考核中所说，大多数中央部委.....）
To take the example of railways, why shouldn't it be integrated alongside the road transport and highways ministry, the shipping ministry and the civil aviation ministry within a transport portfolio? If only Air India was denationalised back to its status at Independence, as is suitable for a post-liberalisation nation, the civil aviation ministry would lose its raison d'etre. Or consider how the energy portfolio is (mis)handled by the ministries of coal, petroleum and natural gas, power, new and renewable energy, heavy industries and public enterprises, et al. With so many ministries splitting up the goal of powering India, the big picture suffers while petty politicking flourishes.
以铁道部为例，为什么不能把它与道路运输和公路部、航运部和民航部一起合并成一个运输部？如果印度航空恢复为私营，回归印度独立时的状态，这样适合自由化后的国家，那么民航部就失去存在的理由。又或考虑下能源业务是如何被煤炭、石油天然气、电力、新能源和可再生能源、重工业和公营企业等部门胡乱操作的。如此多部门分化了驱动印度的目标，导致大局混乱的同时，政治小动作不断。
Why, for instance, do we need textiles, steel or information and broadcasting ministries in a liberalised environment? And what on earth, pray, is the job of the ministry of statistics and programme implementation? If other ministries cannot implement their programmes, will setting up a separate ministry dedicated to this help? Add to the incessant setting up of new ministries the innumerable departments and standalone offices that also come up, and you have layers of bureaucracy, each with its own penchant for empire-building, coming in the way of streamlined governance and meaningful work. It's high time the government indulged its common-sense side rather than its maudlin and inflated side, and reversed the trend of mindless multiplication of ministries.
比如，自由化的环境里是否需要纺织部、钢铁部或信息广播部？统计和项目执行部到底是干什么的？如果其他部门不能执行自己的计划，成立一个单独的部门就能起作用吗？随着不断建立新部门而出现的无数科室和独立办事处加剧了这一局面，官僚机构错综复杂，每一个部门有政治扩张的嗜好，阻碍了管理的顺畅展开和有意义工作的推进。政府早该按常识去发展而不是感情用事，要扭转这种盲目增加机构的趋势。

Surya Kiran (德里)
the rail ministry needs to be amalgamated with transport and rail officials put in charge of day to day affairs, planning at higher level
Agree (3)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
铁道部应该并入运输部，铁道部官员负责日常事务，在更高层面进行规划。
rpbajpai (荷兰莱顿市)
The need of the hour is to cut the number of bureaucrats and supporting staff. A ban should be imposed on the expenditure of every ministry. Actual cost to the nation incurred on each minister should be put on the web every month.
Agree (3)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
当前要做的是减少官僚和后勤人员的数量。每个部门的开支应该设个限制，每月的实际开支应该放到网上公示。
janakkumar.singh (印度巴特那)
Suggestions contained are only possible, when a single party with a strong leader wins absolute majority in the election.
Agree (2)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
只有强势领袖领导下的单一政党在选举中赢得绝大多数选票时，这样的建议才具现实可能性。
K Rajasekaran (班加罗尔)
Reducing the number of ministries would be a great economic reforms for the country. Moreover, it delays the decision-making process because of the involvement of so many levels in between. It also gives opportunities for excuses for the delay. Accountability is lost because of shared responsibility. As an economist, our PM should seriously consider the suggestion in the last para.
Agree (2)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
减少部门数量对国家来说是伟大的经济改革。更重要地是，部门臃肿耽搁了决策进程，各级部门会介入进来。此外，还给了官员为延迟找理由的机会。由于是共同担当的责任，问责就失去了作用。我们的总理作为一名经济学家，应该认真考虑最后一段的建议。
Seenu (海德拉巴)
Very amusing article. I agree with most of the points. The jumbo cabinets in india is not because it is required, but it is deliberate. Obviously ministers have many previleges, so more people can be given those previleges. When there is no political will, Chinese lessons will not help.
Agree (7)Disagree (0)Recommend (3)
非常有趣的文章。我同意大多数观点。印度庞大的内阁并非出于所需，而是蓄意而为。很明显，有许多特权的部长越多，就有越多人享受那些特权。如果缺少政治意志，那么中国的经验就无裨益。
venk (village)
I heard that there is a central minister for Toilets . The minister is Mr. Jairam. Is it correct?
Agree (6)Disagree (0)Recommend (1)
听说会任命一名厕所部长，该部长是Jairam先生，对吗？
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com

Prakruti Shah (孟买)
How can you even ask to reduce ministries? where will the politicians relatives and friends go? what will be the use of all the taxes collected??
Agree (10)Disagree (0)Recommend (0)
你们怎么能要求减少部门？你叫政客的亲戚和朋友去哪？收上来的税收拿来干什么？
Indiaman (孟买)
Comparing China with India is like comparing sachin tendulkar with a person learning to play cricket.
Agree (8)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)
把中国和印度作比较，就像是把沙奇·德鲁卡和一名学打板球的人作比较。
（三泰虎注： 沙奇·德鲁卡是印度板球明星）
Ajay Kumar (古尔冈，哈利亚纳)
Yes it is true that real reform will come when Government will downsize its ministries and ultimately government expenses will lower. Our Prime Minister should look into this.
如果政府裁剪部门，那么确实能带来实质改革，最终政府开支会降低。我们的总理应该就此调查下。
G srinivas (班加罗尔)
we need only say some 20 ministers that is it, we can close all others, but if this is done the art of making money to the politicians will cease to exist and they will be loosers
我们只需要大约20个部门，其他全部关掉。但要是这样做了，政客的赚钱艺术就会荡然无存，他们会成为输家。
gaurav (德里)
You cant possibly be serious in using 'government' and 'commonsense' in the same sentence unless you include the word "lacks"!
你不能煞有介事地把“政府”和“常识”放在同一个句子中，除非你在中间加“缺少”这个词！
G srinivas (班加罗尔)
Ministry of rural development, agriculture and ecology please be made one
请把农村发展部、农业生态部整合成一个部门。
G srinivas (班加罗尔)
worst is the aviation and shipping minisytry which is 100% not needed
航空和海运部根本就没有存在的必要。
geem (timbak2)
China is offering lessons in a one party totalitarian state as well, why don't we buy it?
Agree (2)Disagree (2)Recommend (0)
中国的一党专制也提供了借鉴，为什么我们不学这个？
samikp10 (印度)
that's quite a good lesson.....but this is India....... unfortunately that's not going to be happen here....ever...
Agree (5)Disagree (0)Recommend (2)
很好的经验.....但这是印度......很不幸，在这里永远行不通......
lakshmi (海德拉巴)
It does not mean that India does not know to downsize government and control expenditure. It simply does not have the will to do.
Agree (8)Disagree (0)Recommend (2)
并非是印度不懂得如何裁剪政府部门和控制开支，其实是缺乏这样做的意志。
gsanjeev1973 (古尔冈)
Indian railway will be split in two ministry - Mamta Railway Deptt & Congress Railway Deptt
印度铁道部将会分裂成两个部门——玛玛塔铁道部和国大党铁道部。
（三泰虎注：玛玛塔·班纳吉是印度铁道部部长）
TANTRA NATH JHA (加尔各答)
CHINA IS A GREAT COUNTRY COUNTRY. THEY NOT ONLY GIVE A LESSON TO STOP CORRUPTION. IF WE FOLLOW THE IDEOLOGY OF CHINA WE ALSO BE A POWERFUL IN NOT ONLY IN ECONOMY ALSO IN DEFENSE. CHINA ALSO TEACH A GOOD LESSON TO US IN CONTROLLING THE POPULATION, MAKE EMPLOYMENT AND FOREIGN POLICY.
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中国是一个伟大的国家，能给我们提供借鉴的领域不止在杜绝腐败方面。如果我们信奉中国的意识形态，我们不仅会在经济，也会在国防上成为强大国家。中国在控制人口、创造就业和外交政策方面也给我们提供了很好的经验。
Dwivedi JSK (BSP)
Sorry. In stead, they are mulling over formation of some more like onion ministry, potato ministry etc. etc. to accommodate all of NDA.
抱歉，他们反而在考虑组建更多部门，比如大蒜部、土豆部，以便容下所有人。
Anirudh Dhodapkar (孟买)
Yess,we need to learn this. Fact is that if you have been to one ministry office,you will come to know within minutes that ,what a wastage of manpower and tax payers money. Its not only about lake of accountability but corruption at every level. Its a fact that ,kind of amount we spend on repairing the roads and infrastructure,we would have made the roads across the world for 3 times in last 45 years? There are good thing,we can definitely learn from China,its a fact that corruption is everywhere,but how to control,monitor and punish the guilty quickly,is the best thin\g that we can learn from china.
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这个确实该学习。事实上，如果你去一个部门办公室，你几分钟内就会发现多么浪费人力和纳税人的钱。不仅是缺乏问责，而且各级机构腐败泛滥。实际上，我们在修复公路和基础设施方面花的钱，可以修建过去45年来全世界所修三倍长的公路。我们的确该向中国学习，其中如何控制、监管以及迅速惩罚罪犯是我们最该向中国学习的。
Vijayan I (德里)
Over the past few years China has proved to be better than India in almost all respects. While India and Indians never fail to extol, glorify the virtues of democracy, it is China that has stolen a march over India on all things that matter .... be it economic prosperity, defence,quality of life, international relations, corruption in public life etc and so on ... it definately makes me wonder, is democracy really worth it? Our democracy has failed even among our neighbours and as on date we are the lowest in terms of human development not only in the world but also in South Asia .... If democracy is not to blame then what else is ... Basic Indian values? .... again one of those things about whose virtues we cry aloud evrytime..... Plenty to think about isn't it? ....
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在过去几年，中国几乎在所有方面证明其比印度更好。印度及其人民从不错过赞美和歌颂皿煮优点的机会，中国却在所有重要方面比印度先行一步......不管是经济繁荣程度、国防水平、生活质量、国际关系，还是遏制公众生活中的腐败等方面都是如此.....这着实让我想知道，皿煮是否划得来？迄今为止，在人类发展指数方面，我们不仅在世界，而且在南亚都是最低的......如果不该怪皿煮，那还有其他什么好怪的.....印度人的基本价值观？......

原文标题：China offers lessons for India in downsizing government by cutting ministries
原文链接：http://timesofindia.indiatimes.c ... leshow/18912793.cms