柴电潜艇太安静了!太安静了!一篇md战略之页的新文章, ...

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/05/05 15:25:26
以下刚刚发表于“战略之页”,原文见于http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Its-Quiet-Out-There-Too-Quiet-1-11-2013.asp
相对于核潜艇,我们的柴电潜艇在近海还是有巨大优势的。
翻译这篇文章为CD做些小贡献。

The U.S. Navy continues to debate the issue of just how effective non-nuclear submarines would be in wartime and whether the U.S. should buy some of these non-nuclear boats itself. This radical proposal is based on two compelling factors. First, the U.S. Navy may not get enough money to maintain a force of 40-50 SSNs (attack subs). Second, the quietness of modern diesel-electric boats puts nuclear subs at a serious disadvantage, especially in coastal waters. With modern passive sensors, a submerged diesel-electric sub is often the best weapon for finding and destroying other diesel-electric boats.  While the nuclear sub is the most effective high seas vessel, especially if you have worldwide responsibilities and these nukes would have to quickly move long distances to get to the troubled waters, the diesel electric boat, operating on batteries in coastal waters, is quieter and harder to find.
鹰酱继续争论非核潜艇的效果,以及是否用剩余不多的小钱钱去淘一些。因为么,供养40-50艘攻击核潜艇实在是太贵了。而且,新型柴电潜艇实在是太安静了,这让核潜艇情何以堪,尤其是在浅海。使用现代被动声纳,柴电潜艇是对付柴电潜艇的最好选择(没说核潜艇可以通吃柴电潜艇)。威武的核潜艇么,深海的猎手,尤其是对于民主的、正义的、大能的鹰酱。但是但是可但是,柴电潜艇太安静了……
There are 39 nations operating a total of 400 diesel electric subs. Only three of these nations (China, Iran, North Korea) are likely to use their subs against the U.S. or its allies. China has fifty of these boats, Iran has three (plus 25 much smaller mini-subs) and North Korea has 20 (plus 50 much smaller mini-subs). So the U.S. has to worry about 73 diesel electric subs and 75 mini-subs. But about half the full size subs are elderly, obsolete, and noisy. The same can be said for at least half the mini-subs. That leaves about 36 full size subs and 40 mini-subs that are a clear threat (though the older stuff can be a threat if you get sloppy). That’s a lot of subs, and they make the East Asian coast and the Persian Gulf dangerous places for American warships.
世界上很多国家有柴电潜艇。只有兔子、波斯和北棒看着不顺眼。兔子有大概50个,很多都是又老又旧又没品位的。但是但是可但是,兔子窝旁边还是挺危险的。
For much of the past decade the U.S. Navy has been trying to get an idea of just how bad the threat is. Thus from 2005 to 2007 the United States leased a Swedish sub (Sweden only has five subs in service) and its crew, to help American anti-submarine forces get a better idea of what they were up against. This Swedish boat was a "worst case" scenario, an approach that is preferred for training. The Gotland class Swedish subs involved are small (1,500 tons, 64.5 meters/200 feet long) and have a crew of only 25. The Gotland was based in San Diego, along with three dozen civilian technicians to help with maintenance.
很多年前,鹰酱就想试试这个新玩具,多亏了北欧家居国,不仅出了这个玩具来给鹰酱训练,还出了人。这种玩具简直太“坏”了。
For many years before the Gotland arrived, the U.S. Navy had trained against Australian diesel-electric subs and often came out second. The Gotland has one advantage over the Australian boats because of its AIP system (which allows it to stay under water, silently, for several weeks at a time). Thus the Gotland is something of a worst case in terms of what American surface ships and submarines might have to face in a future naval war. None of America's most likely naval opponents (China, North Korea, or Iran) have AIP boats yet, but they do have plenty of diesel-electric subs which, in the hands of skilled crews, can be pretty deadly.
家居国之前,袋鼠国曾经拿来一些玩。家居国的AIP潜艇更新一些,也更坏。让鹰酱感到放心的是,白兔还没有这个AIP玩具(坏白兔似乎有这个坏玩具)。
Based on the experience with Australian and Swedish subs, the U.S. Navy has been developing new anti-submarine tactics and equipment. All this is done in secret, obviously. But apparently the modern, quiet diesel electric boats continue to be a major threat to U.S. surface warships and subs. Meanwhile, potential enemies build more of their cheaper and higher quality diesel-electric boats and train their crews by having them stalk actual warships (including U.S. ones). The subs are getting more numerous, while U.S. defenses are limping along because of the sheer technical problems of finding quiet diesel-electric boats in coastal waters.
根据这些玩具,鹰酱已经秘密的研究出来对付的法子了,当然不能让你知道了。但是但是可但是,这种玩具还是挺危险的。更糟糕的是,这种坏玩具便宜,兔子正在大量的生产。
One reason China wants to keep American naval forces out of their economic zone (which does not bar foreign warships) is so that Chinese diesel electric subs can train without being stalked by American subs, surface ships, and aircraft looking for realistic practice tracking Chinese boats. At the same time the U.S. Navy has lost the full use of its most effective underwater anti-submarine training area (a well mapped and instrumented area off southern California) because environmentalist activists have convinced judges that the use of active sonar in this training area is harmful to some species of aquatic animals.
一个兔子要把鹰酱赶出自己专属经济区的原因是,兔子可以在自己的沿海随便玩。鹰酱的动物保护组织不让鹰酱在自己的沿海玩,说是会吓着了小动物。所以兔子会玩得更好的。
Moreover, the North Korean and Iranian fleets (and governments) are in decline, while China is pouring more cash into their armed forces. If there’s any diesel-electric boats the U.S. Navy has to be extremely concerned about, it’s the Chinese. While China continues to try and develop world class nuclear subs, they are also moving ahead in creating world class diesel electric boats.
比更糟糕还要糟糕的是,兔子有大把大把的小钱钱买各种各样的坏玩具。鹰酱真的非常非常在意,就是可恨的兔子,不仅玩柴电潜艇这个坏玩具,还玩核潜艇这个坏玩具。
以下刚刚发表于“战略之页”,原文见于http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Its-Quiet-Out-There-Too-Quiet-1-11-2013.asp
相对于核潜艇,我们的柴电潜艇在近海还是有巨大优势的。
翻译这篇文章为CD做些小贡献。

The U.S. Navy continues to debate the issue of just how effective non-nuclear submarines would be in wartime and whether the U.S. should buy some of these non-nuclear boats itself. This radical proposal is based on two compelling factors. First, the U.S. Navy may not get enough money to maintain a force of 40-50 SSNs (attack subs). Second, the quietness of modern diesel-electric boats puts nuclear subs at a serious disadvantage, especially in coastal waters. With modern passive sensors, a submerged diesel-electric sub is often the best weapon for finding and destroying other diesel-electric boats.  While the nuclear sub is the most effective high seas vessel, especially if you have worldwide responsibilities and these nukes would have to quickly move long distances to get to the troubled waters, the diesel electric boat, operating on batteries in coastal waters, is quieter and harder to find.
鹰酱继续争论非核潜艇的效果,以及是否用剩余不多的小钱钱去淘一些。因为么,供养40-50艘攻击核潜艇实在是太贵了。而且,新型柴电潜艇实在是太安静了,这让核潜艇情何以堪,尤其是在浅海。使用现代被动声纳,柴电潜艇是对付柴电潜艇的最好选择(没说核潜艇可以通吃柴电潜艇)。威武的核潜艇么,深海的猎手,尤其是对于民主的、正义的、大能的鹰酱。但是但是可但是,柴电潜艇太安静了……
There are 39 nations operating a total of 400 diesel electric subs. Only three of these nations (China, Iran, North Korea) are likely to use their subs against the U.S. or its allies. China has fifty of these boats, Iran has three (plus 25 much smaller mini-subs) and North Korea has 20 (plus 50 much smaller mini-subs). So the U.S. has to worry about 73 diesel electric subs and 75 mini-subs. But about half the full size subs are elderly, obsolete, and noisy. The same can be said for at least half the mini-subs. That leaves about 36 full size subs and 40 mini-subs that are a clear threat (though the older stuff can be a threat if you get sloppy). That’s a lot of subs, and they make the East Asian coast and the Persian Gulf dangerous places for American warships.
世界上很多国家有柴电潜艇。只有兔子、波斯和北棒看着不顺眼。兔子有大概50个,很多都是又老又旧又没品位的。但是但是可但是,兔子窝旁边还是挺危险的。
For much of the past decade the U.S. Navy has been trying to get an idea of just how bad the threat is. Thus from 2005 to 2007 the United States leased a Swedish sub (Sweden only has five subs in service) and its crew, to help American anti-submarine forces get a better idea of what they were up against. This Swedish boat was a "worst case" scenario, an approach that is preferred for training. The Gotland class Swedish subs involved are small (1,500 tons, 64.5 meters/200 feet long) and have a crew of only 25. The Gotland was based in San Diego, along with three dozen civilian technicians to help with maintenance.
很多年前,鹰酱就想试试这个新玩具,多亏了北欧家居国,不仅出了这个玩具来给鹰酱训练,还出了人。这种玩具简直太“坏”了。
For many years before the Gotland arrived, the U.S. Navy had trained against Australian diesel-electric subs and often came out second. The Gotland has one advantage over the Australian boats because of its AIP system (which allows it to stay under water, silently, for several weeks at a time). Thus the Gotland is something of a worst case in terms of what American surface ships and submarines might have to face in a future naval war. None of America's most likely naval opponents (China, North Korea, or Iran) have AIP boats yet, but they do have plenty of diesel-electric subs which, in the hands of skilled crews, can be pretty deadly.
家居国之前,袋鼠国曾经拿来一些玩。家居国的AIP潜艇更新一些,也更坏。让鹰酱感到放心的是,白兔还没有这个AIP玩具(坏白兔似乎有这个坏玩具)。
Based on the experience with Australian and Swedish subs, the U.S. Navy has been developing new anti-submarine tactics and equipment. All this is done in secret, obviously. But apparently the modern, quiet diesel electric boats continue to be a major threat to U.S. surface warships and subs. Meanwhile, potential enemies build more of their cheaper and higher quality diesel-electric boats and train their crews by having them stalk actual warships (including U.S. ones). The subs are getting more numerous, while U.S. defenses are limping along because of the sheer technical problems of finding quiet diesel-electric boats in coastal waters.
根据这些玩具,鹰酱已经秘密的研究出来对付的法子了,当然不能让你知道了。但是但是可但是,这种玩具还是挺危险的。更糟糕的是,这种坏玩具便宜,兔子正在大量的生产。
One reason China wants to keep American naval forces out of their economic zone (which does not bar foreign warships) is so that Chinese diesel electric subs can train without being stalked by American subs, surface ships, and aircraft looking for realistic practice tracking Chinese boats. At the same time the U.S. Navy has lost the full use of its most effective underwater anti-submarine training area (a well mapped and instrumented area off southern California) because environmentalist activists have convinced judges that the use of active sonar in this training area is harmful to some species of aquatic animals.
一个兔子要把鹰酱赶出自己专属经济区的原因是,兔子可以在自己的沿海随便玩。鹰酱的动物保护组织不让鹰酱在自己的沿海玩,说是会吓着了小动物。所以兔子会玩得更好的。
Moreover, the North Korean and Iranian fleets (and governments) are in decline, while China is pouring more cash into their armed forces. If there’s any diesel-electric boats the U.S. Navy has to be extremely concerned about, it’s the Chinese. While China continues to try and develop world class nuclear subs, they are also moving ahead in creating world class diesel electric boats.
比更糟糕还要糟糕的是,兔子有大把大把的小钱钱买各种各样的坏玩具。鹰酱真的非常非常在意,就是可恨的兔子,不仅玩柴电潜艇这个坏玩具,还玩核潜艇这个坏玩具。
但是没有核潜艇是万万不能的。
两手都要抓    两手都要硬
继续在039B的基础上完善和改进,争取做最好的常规潜艇!加快下一代核潜艇的研发,核潜艇的裤衩不能一直太白!
常规潜艇的速度太慢,续航能力太差...要是柴油潜艇干航母,只能在水下固定潜伏等航母战斗群撞上来,他可追不上航母。就算运气好撞上了,留给常规潜艇攻击窗口也不大,攻击时机很难抓住。
核潜艇才是主流,常规潜艇保证不掉队就行。
英语不好,只能看到楼主乱说
支持翻译 近海常规潜艇的性价比确实高 别在兔子家门口转悠不就没这么多烦恼了?
多年前的一次演习中,TG卖给法老国的033潜艇就曾"击沉"过美国军舰.
没人说核潜艇是万能的。你非要说柴电潜艇有多安静,那么我只能说,静音不是万能的

我只能说,客观分析才是最重要的。
说实话,随着我们的各种新武器出现,一些人习惯的为了抬高某个东西而贬低另一个的方法越来越容易闹笑话
我们没航母的时候有人为了捧MD鼓吹航母万能,有人极力吹捧弹道导弹打航母,现在我们有航母了,你说航母万能,那就是说弹道导弹没用?你说航母很脆,那我们的航母还有毛用?
以前MD有NND,现在我们也有反导系统了,以前MD有宙斯盾,现在我们也有板砖了。矛和盾都有了,你想说矛无坚不摧,还是盾坚不可破呢?
五大常任理事国,英法美都是全核潜艇,毛子核潜艇为主常规打杂,就只有我朝以常规艇为主。
常规艇那么好,为啥其它四个流氓不大搞?倒是日德两个不允许拥有核潜艇的国家搞出了高水平的常规艇。
谢谢楼主的翻译,非常的风趣!
无心骑士 发表于 2013-1-13 00:50
五大常任理事国,英法美都是全核潜艇,毛子核潜艇为主常规打杂,就只有我朝以常规艇为主。
常规艇那么好, ...
技术落后应是公认的,但还有地理海洋环境,海军完全被封锁在了内海,近海也都是浅海,客观上也影响了核潜艇的使用发展,核潜艇每次出海都要有舰队护航到大洋深处,不能单独突破第一岛链,危险性很大。
柴电这么好
建议NAVY先来上十几打
死要面子活受罪啊
都说明乱七八糟的,绕口令吗?
楼主,很多东西是靠做的,不是靠说的,觉得柴电好的,你让美国先装备一艘柴电潜艇再说
常规潜艇也就适合黄水海军用
木有靠谱的核潜那是万万不能滴,兔子还要大大地加军费。
美帝的水下舰队不知道要过多少年世界上才能出现与之相抗衡的力量
神翻译,信,达,雅!
在楼主嘴里,AIP好像是土鳖的情趣小玩具,震得鹰酱高潮迭起
如果是楼主原创,值得表扬
只要美国经济完蛋了,他的水下舰队就会和红海军一样随风而逝,这绝对比别人超过他可能性大,因为除非就开始新冷战,不会有哪个国家建造如此庞大的水下舰队了。
还在YY中国近海不适合 核鱼,就柴鱼才能玩的转,人家MD昨天核鱼都在70M的霍尔木兹海峡溜了。
不要看MD说什么,要看MD自己做什么。
以MD的家底,他觉得好的什么都已经研究过了,他会不知道柴电潜艇的优势?
但是最终他选用全核化,说明柴电潜艇的优势相比核潜艇就是没有优势。

LZ你大概是忘了冷战时期MD忽悠毛子说航母无用,还是核潜艇有用的段子了吧;把毛子忽悠瘸了,然后MD自己两手都很硬
潜艇一动起来,不管柴电还是核,声音都很大吧?
就是潜着不动的时候比较安静。
我只问一句,如果常规潜艇那么好,为什么MD没有常规动力潜艇?
常规潜艇在近海还是占据很大优势的,弥补了腿短,需要频繁换气的缺点。。。

其大陆架复杂的海底地形与复杂的声学条件,也使得常规潜艇如虎添翼。。。

所以常规潜艇是依托海岸基地与航空兵掩护,做近海积极防御相当有利的武器。。。

另外,不要是都看MD,老美有全球作战的需求,却很少有近海防御的需要,你全球作战,弄艘常规潜艇,他怎么到战区去啊。。。

所以,毛子和我们才发展常规潜艇。。。

别的不说,在近海主场作战,常规潜艇与核潜艇至少能够做到1:1交换比,而这个交换比又是谁合算呢???
justice02 发表于 2013-1-13 09:55
还在YY中国近海不适合 核鱼,就柴鱼才能玩的转,人家MD昨天核鱼都在70M的霍尔木兹海峡溜了。
人考虑的是性价比......
弹道导弹核潜艇显然就是个威慑力量,个人以为6艘就够
战术核潜艇作为深蓝海军的一部分,10+是必须的,但感觉控制在20艘以内就可以了
核潜艇欠帐很多,还是要布上的。
是不是担心TG把核潜艇也白菜化了啊,赶快出来唱衰
一个本拉登抵得上十艘核潜艇
近岸浅水常规动力  好一些吧  主要还是技术因素 过关了 也可以搞红宝石级别的 小型核动力艇 用于近岸浅水作战
有万能的东西吗?
饱食而乱喷 发表于 2013-1-13 06:42
柴电这么好
建议NAVY先来上十几打
就他们的潜艇的饵料 不用那么全面的发展 但是全球跑确实一定要具备的
阴影月影 发表于 2013-1-13 09:22
楼主,很多东西是靠做的,不是靠说的,觉得柴电好的,你让美国先装备一艘柴电潜艇再说
美国的常规潜艇已经停产了几十年了,现在想重新开工的话,需要很多小钱钱滴
远洋的话必须核潜艇   近海防御还是常规有用些
Accompany 发表于 2013-1-14 01:17
近岸浅水常规动力  好一些吧  主要还是技术因素 过关了 也可以搞红宝石级别的 小型核动力艇 用于近岸浅水作 ...
核潜艇是除了航母之外最耗钱的舰只,核潜艇就算做的再小,在某些方面的使用维护成本和大型核潜艇差不了多少。如果算上经济成本,中小型常规潜艇的使用和维护成本显然要更经济,斯特林发动机使用后,续航能力有了很大的提升,美中不足的是航速始终上不来,不过对于近海作战来讲,这缺点还在能接受的范围之类
核潜艇不是万能的,也没见MD少开工一条核潜艇,用常规潜艇来补偿
sw555 发表于 2013-1-13 09:42
美帝的水下舰队不知道要过多少年世界上才能出现与之相抗衡的力量
水下的好歹还曾经有过,水面的呢;funk