超级军网俄罗斯慢慢消失的潜艇
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www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/3134.html
Russia's Disappearing Subs
作者:Michael 发布日期:2011-10-12 09:40:23 浏览:2699
译文简介:关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。 译文来源:原文链接：www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/04/russias-disappearing-subs_n_994011.html?ref=russia
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
A debate is raging over whether Russia will soon decommission its three gigantic Typhoon-class nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines. With or without the enormous Typhoons, each of which displaces 34,000 tons while submerged, Russia's undersea fleet is all but certain to decline – and that has strategic implications for Moscow and Washington.
Prior to last week, it was reportedly the official plan of the Russian navy to keep all three of the surviving, 1980s-vintage Typhoons in service until 2019, following the addition of unspecified, new-generation, nuclear-tipped missiles. ‘They have good modernization potential,’ Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.
One of the Typhoons is currently serving as a test bed for the new Bulava missile, the main nuclear armament of the Borey-class submarines, the first of which entered trials in 2009. Two other Typhoons are held in reserve until new missiles can be fitted to replace the now-retired SS-N-20s. None of the Typhoons is available for strategic patrols.
In light of the lack of missiles, plus new limits on nuclear weapons imposed by the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty 3, ratified by the United States and Russia last year, navy sources said last week that the Typhoons would be decommissioned or converted into tankers. The idea of using dangerous, expensive-to-operate nuclear submarines as tankers is seen by most as ridiculous. But the notion of retiring the useless Typhoons makes perfect sense
Still, the Navy denies the Typhoons face the chopping block. ‘The Defence Ministry has not made such a decision,’ an official said. ‘The submarines remain in service with the Navy.’
.Under the best of circumstances, the Typhoons will get new missiles and remain in service another eight years. Even then, the Russian undersea strategic fleet will almost inevitably shrink. Besides the three Typhoons, the Navy possesses an estimated 11 missile submarines: five Delta IIIs dating from the late 1970s and early 1980s and six slightly younger Delta IVs. The Delta IIIs are unlikely to last beyond 2020.
Russia was supposed to build seven Borey submarines between 2006 and 2015. They, along with the Delta IVs, would preserve the missile-boat force. But construction delays mean just two Boreys have been completed so far. Neither has sailed on an operational cruise owing to problems with the Bulava missile.
At this rate, the older Deltas will retire faster than Boreys can replace them. Even if they’re retained until 2019, the Typhoons, too, could decommission without direct replacements. Within a decade, Russia could possess just half a dozen operational missile submarines.
And that could undermine START 3, which was predicated on reducing US and Russian nuclear weapons stockpiles to just 1,550 apiece – the lowest level in 50 years, but still high enough that Washington and Russia remained the world’s leading nuclear powers.
Most of Russia’s nuclear weapons are submarine-based. Without more missile subs, ‘the force they negotiated so hard for will disappear,’ Owen Cote, Jr., an analyst at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told The Diplomat. ‘They've got to do something to turn the submarine situation around, for that reason alone.’
But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrinking missile-sub fleet.
关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。
上周之前，据报道，俄海军官方的计划在增加秘密的的新一代核弹头的导弹之后继续保留这三个20世纪80年代风格的正在服役的潜艇直到2019年之后。弗拉基米尔·维索茨基海军上将表示：“他们有较大的的现代化潜力。”
台风级潜艇中，一个是目前作为新的“布拉瓦”导弹试验台——北风之神级潜艇的主要核军备，首先于2009年进入试验。另外两个台风级潜艇在储备举行，直到新的导弹安装以取代现在已经退役的SS - N- 20。没有台风级潜艇用于战略巡逻。
鉴于导弹的不足，再加上由美国和俄罗斯去年批准的新的限制核武器的《削减战略武器第3条约》，海军上周称，台风级潜艇将退役或转换成油轮。大多数人认为，使用危险，昂贵的方法将核潜艇作为油轮的想法是荒谬的。但退休无用的台风级潜艇的想法则非常有意义。
不过，海军否认台风面临销毁。一名官员说，国防部并没有作出这样的决定，潜艇仍为海军服役。”
在最好的情况下，台风级潜艇将安装新型导弹，并且服役期延长八年。即使那时，俄罗斯的海底战略舰队实力将几乎不可避免地缩水。除去三个台风级潜艇，海军估计拥有11导弹核潜艇：五个可以追溯到20世纪70年代末80年代初D-III核潜艇，六个略微年轻的D-IV核潜艇。D-III核潜艇不太可能服役到2020年以后。
俄罗斯在2006年和2015年之间应该建造七个北风级核潜艇。连带D-III核潜艇，他们将保持导弹潜艇力量。但是，工程延误就意味着，到目前为止，只有两个北风级核潜艇已经完成。由于“布拉瓦”导弹的问题，两者都没有进行战术上的航行。
按照这个速度，即使他们保留到2019年，旧德尔塔级核潜艇退役的速度将快于北风级核潜艇取代它们的速度。台风级核潜艇也可能在没有替代的情况下直接退役。十年之内，俄罗斯可能仅拥有半打的作战导弹潜艇。
减少美国和俄罗斯的核武器储备到近50年来最低水平，但这仍足够高。美国和俄罗斯仍然是世界领先的核大国。
大部分俄罗斯的核武器是以导弹潜艇为基础的，如果没有更多的导弹潜艇，迫使他们努力进行谈判的动力将会消失，麻省理工学院的分析师告诉这名外交官，“仅仅因为这个原因，他们已经行动来改变导弹潜艇的状况。”
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
评论翻译:The Mad Guesser ：
a president who understand­s that we now have the Russians with their pants down so the joint chiefs will have no choice but to order a first strike before these Commie barbarians finish building their subs. Billions of new jobs as Rubble Sifters will be created. Our 2012 American voters are too clever to elect some pansy like Truman who had a window period of 1945-1949 when America had the bomb and the Commies didn't, but he refused to obliterate these savages. Our next president would never let such a chance slip through our fingers since those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
在2012年，美国人将选出一名总统，其知道我们现在让俄罗斯脱下自己的裤子，以便参谋长联席会议将别无选择，只能在这些蛮人完成建造自己的潜艇之前先下手为强，将会创造数十亿就业机会。我们2012年的美国选民太聪明，不会选出像杜鲁门那样的总统，1945年至1949年的空窗期时，美国拥有炸弹，俄罗斯却没有，但他拒绝抹杀这些野蛮人。我们的下一任总统不会让这样的机会在我们的手指间溜走，因为那些不从历史中吸取教训的人是注定要重蹈覆辙的。
publiusmax ：
Sarcasm, or are you actually looking forward to seeing the thousands of warheads the Russians would still have devestatin­g our cities? Once you get to the point where the enemy has at least a couple of hundred nuclear warheads in their arsenal, nuclear war becomes a no win situation. Russia has at least a cople thousand, with or without their SLBM's
讽刺，或者是你期待看到俄罗斯仍然拥有的成千上万的弹头蹂躏我们的城市？一旦你的敌人在自己的军械库至少有数百核弹头，核战争将成为一个没有双赢的局面。俄罗斯至少有一千，算或不算自己的潜射弹道导弹
Baneblade：
Put them on eBay, missiles and all.
"What if they use the missiles?" You might ask. Well in that case, they'll need more missiles, which can be sold at discount.
把导弹都放到网上出售吧。
“如果他们使用导弹呢？”你也许会问。在这种情况下，他们将需要更多的导弹，可以低价出售了。
publiusmax ：
For some strange reason a lot of Americans are under the impression that Russian and Chinese ICBM's are actually some sort of bottle rockets. Thank goodness that nobody that stupid has ever been in the White House, and there are only two people who might be that stupid who are possible candidates for 2012. One of them apparently isn't running and the other one looks like she's already out of the race.
由于一些奇怪的原因，很多美国人的印象是，俄罗斯和中国洲际导弹实际上是某种瓶装火箭。谢天谢地，没有那样愚蠢的人曾经在白宫，现只有两个人可能如此愚蠢并且成为2012年的总统候选人。其中一人显然没有运行，另一个看起来她已经退出了比赛。
jestermarcus
The world was a lot different back then, economies weren't completely tied together like they are now. If China and America were to go to war, the entire planet would suffer. Even if one nation beat the other decisively­, the losers destroyed economy would probably drag the other down with it. Not saying it can't happen, but the consequenc­es are much more severe now than they were back then.
当年，世界与此时相比很多不同。经济并没有像现在紧密联系在一起。如果中国和美国开战，整个地球就会受到影响。即使一个国家果断击败另一个，失败者经济被毁可能会拖累其他。并不是说这是不可能发生的，但现在的后果要比他们当年更为严重。
proshot22 ：
Russian subs are only a threat to Russian sailors, those countries that purchased a Russian sub, and those countries sailors. I'm more worried about Russia's disappeari­ng journalist­s.
俄罗斯的潜艇只能威胁到俄罗斯水兵、购买俄罗斯潜艇的国家与这些国家的水手。我更担心俄罗斯慢慢消失的记者。
f0rTyLeGz ：
Not really... we have 71 nuclear submarines­. A colossal waste of taxpayer's money. Who is the threat? Just pure money down a rat's hole... like the 90,000 soldiers in Afghanista­n who are "keeping America safe." Each soldier costs the taxpayer a million bucks a year.
不是真的...我们有71艘核潜艇¬。对纳税人的金钱的巨大浪费。谁是威胁？只是单纯的把钱放入老鼠洞.. ...像在阿富汗的90000名士兵，谁是“保护美国安全”。每个士兵每年花费纳税人一百万美元。
Vuittondon13 ：
For some reason I believe both sides (Russia & US) are being deceitful act the Treaty. Just my personal hunch.
出于某种原因，我相信双方（俄罗斯和美国）正在欺骗性的行为履行Start 3条约。只是我个人的预感
smalljaws ：
The Cold War is over. If the Russians are decommissi­oning subs we should shut down the base in Japan whose mission was surveillan­ce on the comings and goings at Vladivosto­k. Let the Japanese and Koreans provide for their own defense. We have more pressing needs at home.
冷战已经结束。如果俄罗斯退役潜艇，我们应该关闭在日本的基地，其任务是监视海参崴探附近的举动。让日本和韩国为自己防卫。我们在家有更迫切的需要。
americaisracist ：
the cold war never ended. war isn't fought with just guns and bombs ya know. everyone has been positionin­g themselves through media wars, political wars, financial wars, etc.
冷战从来没有结束。战争不只是用你所知道的枪和炸弹去战斗。每个人都通过媒体战争，政治战争，金融战等定位自己。
darrtown ：
The headline made me think Russia had lost track of her subs or had sold them off to al Qaida.
标题让我误认为俄罗斯已经失去了她的潜艇踪迹，或卖给“基地”组织。
ur2nutty4me ：
Will give them the money and technology just to keep the War profiteers gong. We bailed them out of their revolution only to get screwed you don't think Americorp will bail them out to keep making massive profits at the tax payers expense. Where's when you need him.......­­.....
给他们资金和技术以使战争奸商发财吗？我们将他们从革命中挽救却被欺骗，你不会想到美国企业花费纳税人的钱帮助他们摆脱困境来赚取巨额利润。奥利北当你需要他时，Ollie North又在哪里...........
Artos ：
"But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrin­king missile-su­b fleet."
Not true at all. The U.S. could build them new subs. We are after all the Worlds Number one Preeminent Arms merchant. We can't very well let our Number one former and possibly future adversary go without a viable and equal Submarine/ Missile force. Besides we can't seem to make any money in America any other way nowadays, might as well make the Evangelica­ls happy and take one more step down the road to Armageddon­.
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
事实并非如此。美国可以为其建造新的潜艇。毕竟我们是世界头号武器商人。我们要很好地让我们的前头号和未来可能的对手拥有一个可行的和平等的潜艇/导弹部队。此外，时下我们在美国似乎无法以任何方式获取利润，倒不如使福音派高兴，并沿着世界末日的道路上迈出更大一步。
MarxEngelsLeninTrotsky ：
Russians are very clever and have excellent technology­. Considerin­g they had "no" money they kept up with the United States, now they do have money. As clever as they are when it comes to the military they still cant build a microwave or a car. I'm all for nations getting rid of weapons of war, the less in the world the better but they will have something in the pipeline unfortunat­ely. Here's hoping the US will do the same, unless Al Qaeda have suddenly started using Submarines­!
俄罗斯人很聪明，有过硬的科技。考虑到他们“没有”钱，他们曾与美国齐头并进，现在他们有钱了。虽如涉及军事那般聪明，他们却仍然不能建立一个微波或汽车。我支持国家销毁战争武器，在世界上越少越好，但不幸的是，他们在管道里仍有东西。这儿希望美国也这样做，除非“基地”组织突然开始使用潜艇！
blueman00009 ：
50%. 50% is totally managable and we will still be incredibly more powerful then the next potential adversary. Cut the carrier's in half. Cut, cut, cut.
The real threat now is not from nation states, but ter.ror.is­ts. They don't have air power or a navy or tanks. We are just wasting billions for nothing.
50％。50％是完全可管理的，那时我们仍然会令人难以置信地比未来的潜在对手更强大，那么。削减运营商的一半。砍，砍，砍。
真正的威胁，现在不是来自民族国家，而是恐怖分子。他们没有空中力量或海军或坦克。我们只是白白浪费数十亿美元。
Artos ：
I doubt that I would go so far as to agree with that statement. a Russian Missile doesn't have to be 100% accurate to hit something in the U.S. had they wanted to. Those it would have hit would be just as dead. It's kinda like Horseshoes and Handgrenad­es if you're familiar with that old saw. All you have to be is close. As to the safety of the Russian subs, well they managed to get around for plenty of years without too much trouble. IF you think they lost more than we did try to remember that we had at least two go down early on in the Nuke Subs history. They were never recovered either that I know of. The one main thing to remember about War and the enemy is that one should never underestim­ate them, because to do so is to do it at ones own peril.
我认为我会走这么远，同意这种说法。一个俄罗斯导弹不须100％准确的击中他们在美国的目标。它击中的也一样死。如果你熟悉旧的锯的话，它有点像马蹄和手榴弹，你所需的只是离它近点。至于俄罗斯潜艇的安全性，他们运行很多年并且没有太多的麻烦。我们曾要记住我们在早期，至少两个核武器潜艇下沉，他们失去的要多。他们再也没有恢复。关于战争和敌人要记住得最主要的一个就是，千万不要低估对手，因为这样做是自取灭亡。
Michael Zand ：
Good. Maybe we can start decommissi­oning our cold war era subs also and save billions in the process. We need schools not subs. The next threats facing our country don't come from nation states but from smaller independen­t terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. We and all our former cold war foes are so heavily invested in each others' economies that it makes a convention­al war between damn near impossible­.
好。也许我们可以开始退役我们冷战时期的潜艇，在这过程中我们可以节省数十亿美元。我们需要的是学校而不是潜艇。我国未来面临的威胁不是来自民族国家，而是从更小的独立的如“基地”组织般的恐怖团体。我们和我们所有的前冷战敌人大量投资于彼此的经济，这使得相互之间进行常规战争几乎是不可能的。
Vroomfondel ：
If we would close even HALF of our overseas bases and half of our redundant domestic military bases, we could easily fund a single-pay­er healthcare system and provide no-cost higher education to all of our young people, and STILL retain enough military hardware to deter any possible foreign military aggression against us.
如果我们关闭我们海外基地的一半和我们多余的国内军事基地一半，我们就可以很容易地提供资金建立单方支付卫生保健系统，并向我们所有的年轻人提供免费的高等教育，仍然能够保留足够的军事硬件，以防止任何可能的外国军事力量侵略我们。
rollingrock ：
Russia and United States have one thing in common....­their respective defense industries are a massive black hole that have bankrupted both countries.
俄罗斯和美国有一个共同点....，各自的国防工业是一个巨大的黑洞，是两个国家面临破产。
MikeDu ：
The article neglected to mention the *pointless­ness* of the whole exercise. Is Russia going to blow up the US? Is the US going to blow up Russiaa? They might as well be maintainin­g a stockpile of warhorses and suits of armor for all the military apllicatio­n those weapons have,
文章没有提到整个演习的*毫无意义*。俄罗斯是要炸毁美国？是美国打算炸毁俄罗斯？他们可能是为所有这些武器的军事应用维持战马和盔甲的储备，
agro23 ：
I know! How about the Russians just retire them and then in an act of good faith we match the reductions to our subs & missiles to maintain balance?
我知道了！俄罗斯刚刚退役核潜艇，然后以一个善意的举动，我们削减我们的潜艇和导弹与之相匹配以保持平衡？
The Canadian ：
Didn't this used to be Moscow's ever-sinki­ng missile-su­b fleet?
Russian lost at least 6 subs by accidents that they acknowledg­e since 1970, with most of these coming in the 80s or later. By contrast, America has lost two subs be accident, both of these in the 1960s.
Russian subs: They go down, but they don't come up. Either way, their fleet definitely shrinks in size.
这个不是莫斯科曾经不断下沉导弹潜艇舰队？自1970年以来，俄罗斯已知他们因意外失去了至少6潜艇，大多数在80年代或以后建造的。相比之下，美国已意外经失去了两个潜艇，都是20世纪60年代的。
俄罗斯潜艇：他们下沉了，但他们不再上来。无论哪种方式，他们的舰队规模一定缩小。
coolhand66 ：
let us do the same. the cost of keeping nuclear weapons $180 billion or more over next decade.
right now we the "USA" have about 3400 nuclear weapons down from about 32000 nuclear weapons. all you realy need is aroand 50-100 nuclear weapons.
让我们同样做。未来10年保持核武器的的成本180亿美元或更多。现在我们的“美国”从约32000枚核武器减至约3400枚。你真正需要的是大约50-100枚核武器。
rcozad ：
It is further proof that neither the Russians nor the US can afford the outrageous costs incurred by the maintenanc­e of a bloated military. Unfortunat­ely for us Russia has come to this conclusion more rapidly than the US !
这进一步证明，无论是俄罗斯还是美国都负担不起维护臃肿的军事产生的离谱费用。对我们来说，不幸的是俄罗斯比美国更迅速地得出这样的结论！
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/3134.html
Russia's Disappearing Subs
作者:Michael 发布日期:2011-10-12 09:40:23 浏览:2699
译文简介:关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。 译文来源:原文链接：www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/04/russias-disappearing-subs_n_994011.html?ref=russia
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
A debate is raging over whether Russia will soon decommission its three gigantic Typhoon-class nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines. With or without the enormous Typhoons, each of which displaces 34,000 tons while submerged, Russia's undersea fleet is all but certain to decline – and that has strategic implications for Moscow and Washington.
Prior to last week, it was reportedly the official plan of the Russian navy to keep all three of the surviving, 1980s-vintage Typhoons in service until 2019, following the addition of unspecified, new-generation, nuclear-tipped missiles. ‘They have good modernization potential,’ Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.
One of the Typhoons is currently serving as a test bed for the new Bulava missile, the main nuclear armament of the Borey-class submarines, the first of which entered trials in 2009. Two other Typhoons are held in reserve until new missiles can be fitted to replace the now-retired SS-N-20s. None of the Typhoons is available for strategic patrols.
In light of the lack of missiles, plus new limits on nuclear weapons imposed by the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty 3, ratified by the United States and Russia last year, navy sources said last week that the Typhoons would be decommissioned or converted into tankers. The idea of using dangerous, expensive-to-operate nuclear submarines as tankers is seen by most as ridiculous. But the notion of retiring the useless Typhoons makes perfect sense
Still, the Navy denies the Typhoons face the chopping block. ‘The Defence Ministry has not made such a decision,’ an official said. ‘The submarines remain in service with the Navy.’
.Under the best of circumstances, the Typhoons will get new missiles and remain in service another eight years. Even then, the Russian undersea strategic fleet will almost inevitably shrink. Besides the three Typhoons, the Navy possesses an estimated 11 missile submarines: five Delta IIIs dating from the late 1970s and early 1980s and six slightly younger Delta IVs. The Delta IIIs are unlikely to last beyond 2020.
Russia was supposed to build seven Borey submarines between 2006 and 2015. They, along with the Delta IVs, would preserve the missile-boat force. But construction delays mean just two Boreys have been completed so far. Neither has sailed on an operational cruise owing to problems with the Bulava missile.
At this rate, the older Deltas will retire faster than Boreys can replace them. Even if they’re retained until 2019, the Typhoons, too, could decommission without direct replacements. Within a decade, Russia could possess just half a dozen operational missile submarines.
And that could undermine START 3, which was predicated on reducing US and Russian nuclear weapons stockpiles to just 1,550 apiece – the lowest level in 50 years, but still high enough that Washington and Russia remained the world’s leading nuclear powers.
Most of Russia’s nuclear weapons are submarine-based. Without more missile subs, ‘the force they negotiated so hard for will disappear,’ Owen Cote, Jr., an analyst at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told The Diplomat. ‘They've got to do something to turn the submarine situation around, for that reason alone.’
But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrinking missile-sub fleet.
关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。
上周之前，据报道，俄海军官方的计划在增加秘密的的新一代核弹头的导弹之后继续保留这三个20世纪80年代风格的正在服役的潜艇直到2019年之后。弗拉基米尔·维索茨基海军上将表示：“他们有较大的的现代化潜力。”
台风级潜艇中，一个是目前作为新的“布拉瓦”导弹试验台——北风之神级潜艇的主要核军备，首先于2009年进入试验。另外两个台风级潜艇在储备举行，直到新的导弹安装以取代现在已经退役的SS - N- 20。没有台风级潜艇用于战略巡逻。
鉴于导弹的不足，再加上由美国和俄罗斯去年批准的新的限制核武器的《削减战略武器第3条约》，海军上周称，台风级潜艇将退役或转换成油轮。大多数人认为，使用危险，昂贵的方法将核潜艇作为油轮的想法是荒谬的。但退休无用的台风级潜艇的想法则非常有意义。
不过，海军否认台风面临销毁。一名官员说，国防部并没有作出这样的决定，潜艇仍为海军服役。”
在最好的情况下，台风级潜艇将安装新型导弹，并且服役期延长八年。即使那时，俄罗斯的海底战略舰队实力将几乎不可避免地缩水。除去三个台风级潜艇，海军估计拥有11导弹核潜艇：五个可以追溯到20世纪70年代末80年代初D-III核潜艇，六个略微年轻的D-IV核潜艇。D-III核潜艇不太可能服役到2020年以后。
俄罗斯在2006年和2015年之间应该建造七个北风级核潜艇。连带D-III核潜艇，他们将保持导弹潜艇力量。但是，工程延误就意味着，到目前为止，只有两个北风级核潜艇已经完成。由于“布拉瓦”导弹的问题，两者都没有进行战术上的航行。
按照这个速度，即使他们保留到2019年，旧德尔塔级核潜艇退役的速度将快于北风级核潜艇取代它们的速度。台风级核潜艇也可能在没有替代的情况下直接退役。十年之内，俄罗斯可能仅拥有半打的作战导弹潜艇。
减少美国和俄罗斯的核武器储备到近50年来最低水平，但这仍足够高。美国和俄罗斯仍然是世界领先的核大国。
大部分俄罗斯的核武器是以导弹潜艇为基础的，如果没有更多的导弹潜艇，迫使他们努力进行谈判的动力将会消失，麻省理工学院的分析师告诉这名外交官，“仅仅因为这个原因，他们已经行动来改变导弹潜艇的状况。”
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
评论翻译:The Mad Guesser ：
a president who understand­s that we now have the Russians with their pants down so the joint chiefs will have no choice but to order a first strike before these Commie barbarians finish building their subs. Billions of new jobs as Rubble Sifters will be created. Our 2012 American voters are too clever to elect some pansy like Truman who had a window period of 1945-1949 when America had the bomb and the Commies didn't, but he refused to obliterate these savages. Our next president would never let such a chance slip through our fingers since those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
在2012年，美国人将选出一名总统，其知道我们现在让俄罗斯脱下自己的裤子，以便参谋长联席会议将别无选择，只能在这些蛮人完成建造自己的潜艇之前先下手为强，将会创造数十亿就业机会。我们2012年的美国选民太聪明，不会选出像杜鲁门那样的总统，1945年至1949年的空窗期时，美国拥有炸弹，俄罗斯却没有，但他拒绝抹杀这些野蛮人。我们的下一任总统不会让这样的机会在我们的手指间溜走，因为那些不从历史中吸取教训的人是注定要重蹈覆辙的。
publiusmax ：
Sarcasm, or are you actually looking forward to seeing the thousands of warheads the Russians would still have devestatin­g our cities? Once you get to the point where the enemy has at least a couple of hundred nuclear warheads in their arsenal, nuclear war becomes a no win situation. Russia has at least a cople thousand, with or without their SLBM's
讽刺，或者是你期待看到俄罗斯仍然拥有的成千上万的弹头蹂躏我们的城市？一旦你的敌人在自己的军械库至少有数百核弹头，核战争将成为一个没有双赢的局面。俄罗斯至少有一千，算或不算自己的潜射弹道导弹
Baneblade：
Put them on eBay, missiles and all.
"What if they use the missiles?" You might ask. Well in that case, they'll need more missiles, which can be sold at discount.
把导弹都放到网上出售吧。
“如果他们使用导弹呢？”你也许会问。在这种情况下，他们将需要更多的导弹，可以低价出售了。
publiusmax ：
For some strange reason a lot of Americans are under the impression that Russian and Chinese ICBM's are actually some sort of bottle rockets. Thank goodness that nobody that stupid has ever been in the White House, and there are only two people who might be that stupid who are possible candidates for 2012. One of them apparently isn't running and the other one looks like she's already out of the race.
由于一些奇怪的原因，很多美国人的印象是，俄罗斯和中国洲际导弹实际上是某种瓶装火箭。谢天谢地，没有那样愚蠢的人曾经在白宫，现只有两个人可能如此愚蠢并且成为2012年的总统候选人。其中一人显然没有运行，另一个看起来她已经退出了比赛。
jestermarcus
The world was a lot different back then, economies weren't completely tied together like they are now. If China and America were to go to war, the entire planet would suffer. Even if one nation beat the other decisively­, the losers destroyed economy would probably drag the other down with it. Not saying it can't happen, but the consequenc­es are much more severe now than they were back then.
当年，世界与此时相比很多不同。经济并没有像现在紧密联系在一起。如果中国和美国开战，整个地球就会受到影响。即使一个国家果断击败另一个，失败者经济被毁可能会拖累其他。并不是说这是不可能发生的，但现在的后果要比他们当年更为严重。
proshot22 ：
Russian subs are only a threat to Russian sailors, those countries that purchased a Russian sub, and those countries sailors. I'm more worried about Russia's disappeari­ng journalist­s.
俄罗斯的潜艇只能威胁到俄罗斯水兵、购买俄罗斯潜艇的国家与这些国家的水手。我更担心俄罗斯慢慢消失的记者。
f0rTyLeGz ：
Not really... we have 71 nuclear submarines­. A colossal waste of taxpayer's money. Who is the threat? Just pure money down a rat's hole... like the 90,000 soldiers in Afghanista­n who are "keeping America safe." Each soldier costs the taxpayer a million bucks a year.
不是真的...我们有71艘核潜艇¬。对纳税人的金钱的巨大浪费。谁是威胁？只是单纯的把钱放入老鼠洞.. ...像在阿富汗的90000名士兵，谁是“保护美国安全”。每个士兵每年花费纳税人一百万美元。
Vuittondon13 ：
For some reason I believe both sides (Russia & US) are being deceitful act the Treaty. Just my personal hunch.
出于某种原因，我相信双方（俄罗斯和美国）正在欺骗性的行为履行Start 3条约。只是我个人的预感
smalljaws ：
The Cold War is over. If the Russians are decommissi­oning subs we should shut down the base in Japan whose mission was surveillan­ce on the comings and goings at Vladivosto­k. Let the Japanese and Koreans provide for their own defense. We have more pressing needs at home.
冷战已经结束。如果俄罗斯退役潜艇，我们应该关闭在日本的基地，其任务是监视海参崴探附近的举动。让日本和韩国为自己防卫。我们在家有更迫切的需要。
americaisracist ：
the cold war never ended. war isn't fought with just guns and bombs ya know. everyone has been positionin­g themselves through media wars, political wars, financial wars, etc.
冷战从来没有结束。战争不只是用你所知道的枪和炸弹去战斗。每个人都通过媒体战争，政治战争，金融战等定位自己。
darrtown ：
The headline made me think Russia had lost track of her subs or had sold them off to al Qaida.
标题让我误认为俄罗斯已经失去了她的潜艇踪迹，或卖给“基地”组织。
ur2nutty4me ：
Will give them the money and technology just to keep the War profiteers gong. We bailed them out of their revolution only to get screwed you don't think Americorp will bail them out to keep making massive profits at the tax payers expense. Where's when you need him.......­­.....
给他们资金和技术以使战争奸商发财吗？我们将他们从革命中挽救却被欺骗，你不会想到美国企业花费纳税人的钱帮助他们摆脱困境来赚取巨额利润。奥利北当你需要他时，Ollie North又在哪里...........
Artos ：
"But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrin­king missile-su­b fleet."
Not true at all. The U.S. could build them new subs. We are after all the Worlds Number one Preeminent Arms merchant. We can't very well let our Number one former and possibly future adversary go without a viable and equal Submarine/ Missile force. Besides we can't seem to make any money in America any other way nowadays, might as well make the Evangelica­ls happy and take one more step down the road to Armageddon­.
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
事实并非如此。美国可以为其建造新的潜艇。毕竟我们是世界头号武器商人。我们要很好地让我们的前头号和未来可能的对手拥有一个可行的和平等的潜艇/导弹部队。此外，时下我们在美国似乎无法以任何方式获取利润，倒不如使福音派高兴，并沿着世界末日的道路上迈出更大一步。
MarxEngelsLeninTrotsky ：
Russians are very clever and have excellent technology­. Considerin­g they had "no" money they kept up with the United States, now they do have money. As clever as they are when it comes to the military they still cant build a microwave or a car. I'm all for nations getting rid of weapons of war, the less in the world the better but they will have something in the pipeline unfortunat­ely. Here's hoping the US will do the same, unless Al Qaeda have suddenly started using Submarines­!
俄罗斯人很聪明，有过硬的科技。考虑到他们“没有”钱，他们曾与美国齐头并进，现在他们有钱了。虽如涉及军事那般聪明，他们却仍然不能建立一个微波或汽车。我支持国家销毁战争武器，在世界上越少越好，但不幸的是，他们在管道里仍有东西。这儿希望美国也这样做，除非“基地”组织突然开始使用潜艇！
blueman00009 ：
50%. 50% is totally managable and we will still be incredibly more powerful then the next potential adversary. Cut the carrier's in half. Cut, cut, cut.
The real threat now is not from nation states, but ter.ror.is­ts. They don't have air power or a navy or tanks. We are just wasting billions for nothing.
50％。50％是完全可管理的，那时我们仍然会令人难以置信地比未来的潜在对手更强大，那么。削减运营商的一半。砍，砍，砍。
真正的威胁，现在不是来自民族国家，而是恐怖分子。他们没有空中力量或海军或坦克。我们只是白白浪费数十亿美元。
Artos ：
I doubt that I would go so far as to agree with that statement. a Russian Missile doesn't have to be 100% accurate to hit something in the U.S. had they wanted to. Those it would have hit would be just as dead. It's kinda like Horseshoes and Handgrenad­es if you're familiar with that old saw. All you have to be is close. As to the safety of the Russian subs, well they managed to get around for plenty of years without too much trouble. IF you think they lost more than we did try to remember that we had at least two go down early on in the Nuke Subs history. They were never recovered either that I know of. The one main thing to remember about War and the enemy is that one should never underestim­ate them, because to do so is to do it at ones own peril.
我认为我会走这么远，同意这种说法。一个俄罗斯导弹不须100％准确的击中他们在美国的目标。它击中的也一样死。如果你熟悉旧的锯的话，它有点像马蹄和手榴弹，你所需的只是离它近点。至于俄罗斯潜艇的安全性，他们运行很多年并且没有太多的麻烦。我们曾要记住我们在早期，至少两个核武器潜艇下沉，他们失去的要多。他们再也没有恢复。关于战争和敌人要记住得最主要的一个就是，千万不要低估对手，因为这样做是自取灭亡。
Michael Zand ：
Good. Maybe we can start decommissi­oning our cold war era subs also and save billions in the process. We need schools not subs. The next threats facing our country don't come from nation states but from smaller independen­t terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. We and all our former cold war foes are so heavily invested in each others' economies that it makes a convention­al war between damn near impossible­.
好。也许我们可以开始退役我们冷战时期的潜艇，在这过程中我们可以节省数十亿美元。我们需要的是学校而不是潜艇。我国未来面临的威胁不是来自民族国家，而是从更小的独立的如“基地”组织般的恐怖团体。我们和我们所有的前冷战敌人大量投资于彼此的经济，这使得相互之间进行常规战争几乎是不可能的。
Vroomfondel ：
If we would close even HALF of our overseas bases and half of our redundant domestic military bases, we could easily fund a single-pay­er healthcare system and provide no-cost higher education to all of our young people, and STILL retain enough military hardware to deter any possible foreign military aggression against us.
如果我们关闭我们海外基地的一半和我们多余的国内军事基地一半，我们就可以很容易地提供资金建立单方支付卫生保健系统，并向我们所有的年轻人提供免费的高等教育，仍然能够保留足够的军事硬件，以防止任何可能的外国军事力量侵略我们。
rollingrock ：
Russia and United States have one thing in common....­their respective defense industries are a massive black hole that have bankrupted both countries.
俄罗斯和美国有一个共同点....，各自的国防工业是一个巨大的黑洞，是两个国家面临破产。
MikeDu ：
The article neglected to mention the *pointless­ness* of the whole exercise. Is Russia going to blow up the US? Is the US going to blow up Russiaa? They might as well be maintainin­g a stockpile of warhorses and suits of armor for all the military apllicatio­n those weapons have,
文章没有提到整个演习的*毫无意义*。俄罗斯是要炸毁美国？是美国打算炸毁俄罗斯？他们可能是为所有这些武器的军事应用维持战马和盔甲的储备，
agro23 ：
I know! How about the Russians just retire them and then in an act of good faith we match the reductions to our subs & missiles to maintain balance?
我知道了！俄罗斯刚刚退役核潜艇，然后以一个善意的举动，我们削减我们的潜艇和导弹与之相匹配以保持平衡？
The Canadian ：
Didn't this used to be Moscow's ever-sinki­ng missile-su­b fleet?
Russian lost at least 6 subs by accidents that they acknowledg­e since 1970, with most of these coming in the 80s or later. By contrast, America has lost two subs be accident, both of these in the 1960s.
Russian subs: They go down, but they don't come up. Either way, their fleet definitely shrinks in size.
这个不是莫斯科曾经不断下沉导弹潜艇舰队？自1970年以来，俄罗斯已知他们因意外失去了至少6潜艇，大多数在80年代或以后建造的。相比之下，美国已意外经失去了两个潜艇，都是20世纪60年代的。
俄罗斯潜艇：他们下沉了，但他们不再上来。无论哪种方式，他们的舰队规模一定缩小。
coolhand66 ：
let us do the same. the cost of keeping nuclear weapons $180 billion or more over next decade.
right now we the "USA" have about 3400 nuclear weapons down from about 32000 nuclear weapons. all you realy need is aroand 50-100 nuclear weapons.
让我们同样做。未来10年保持核武器的的成本180亿美元或更多。现在我们的“美国”从约32000枚核武器减至约3400枚。你真正需要的是大约50-100枚核武器。
rcozad ：
It is further proof that neither the Russians nor the US can afford the outrageous costs incurred by the maintenanc­e of a bloated military. Unfortunat­ely for us Russia has come to this conclusion more rapidly than the US !
这进一步证明，无论是俄罗斯还是美国都负担不起维护臃肿的军事产生的离谱费用。对我们来说，不幸的是俄罗斯比美国更迅速地得出这样的结论！
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
Russia's Disappearing Subs
作者:Michael 发布日期:2011-10-12 09:40:23 浏览:2699
译文简介:关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。 译文来源:原文链接：www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/04/russias-disappearing-subs_n_994011.html?ref=russia
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
A debate is raging over whether Russia will soon decommission its three gigantic Typhoon-class nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines. With or without the enormous Typhoons, each of which displaces 34,000 tons while submerged, Russia's undersea fleet is all but certain to decline – and that has strategic implications for Moscow and Washington.
Prior to last week, it was reportedly the official plan of the Russian navy to keep all three of the surviving, 1980s-vintage Typhoons in service until 2019, following the addition of unspecified, new-generation, nuclear-tipped missiles. ‘They have good modernization potential,’ Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.
One of the Typhoons is currently serving as a test bed for the new Bulava missile, the main nuclear armament of the Borey-class submarines, the first of which entered trials in 2009. Two other Typhoons are held in reserve until new missiles can be fitted to replace the now-retired SS-N-20s. None of the Typhoons is available for strategic patrols.
In light of the lack of missiles, plus new limits on nuclear weapons imposed by the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty 3, ratified by the United States and Russia last year, navy sources said last week that the Typhoons would be decommissioned or converted into tankers. The idea of using dangerous, expensive-to-operate nuclear submarines as tankers is seen by most as ridiculous. But the notion of retiring the useless Typhoons makes perfect sense
Still, the Navy denies the Typhoons face the chopping block. ‘The Defence Ministry has not made such a decision,’ an official said. ‘The submarines remain in service with the Navy.’
.Under the best of circumstances, the Typhoons will get new missiles and remain in service another eight years. Even then, the Russian undersea strategic fleet will almost inevitably shrink. Besides the three Typhoons, the Navy possesses an estimated 11 missile submarines: five Delta IIIs dating from the late 1970s and early 1980s and six slightly younger Delta IVs. The Delta IIIs are unlikely to last beyond 2020.
Russia was supposed to build seven Borey submarines between 2006 and 2015. They, along with the Delta IVs, would preserve the missile-boat force. But construction delays mean just two Boreys have been completed so far. Neither has sailed on an operational cruise owing to problems with the Bulava missile.
At this rate, the older Deltas will retire faster than Boreys can replace them. Even if they’re retained until 2019, the Typhoons, too, could decommission without direct replacements. Within a decade, Russia could possess just half a dozen operational missile submarines.
And that could undermine START 3, which was predicated on reducing US and Russian nuclear weapons stockpiles to just 1,550 apiece – the lowest level in 50 years, but still high enough that Washington and Russia remained the world’s leading nuclear powers.
Most of Russia’s nuclear weapons are submarine-based. Without more missile subs, ‘the force they negotiated so hard for will disappear,’ Owen Cote, Jr., an analyst at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told The Diplomat. ‘They've got to do something to turn the submarine situation around, for that reason alone.’
But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrinking missile-sub fleet.
关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。
上周之前，据报道，俄海军官方的计划在增加秘密的的新一代核弹头的导弹之后继续保留这三个20世纪80年代风格的正在服役的潜艇直到2019年之后。弗拉基米尔·维索茨基海军上将表示：“他们有较大的的现代化潜力。”
台风级潜艇中，一个是目前作为新的“布拉瓦”导弹试验台——北风之神级潜艇的主要核军备，首先于2009年进入试验。另外两个台风级潜艇在储备举行，直到新的导弹安装以取代现在已经退役的SS - N- 20。没有台风级潜艇用于战略巡逻。
鉴于导弹的不足，再加上由美国和俄罗斯去年批准的新的限制核武器的《削减战略武器第3条约》，海军上周称，台风级潜艇将退役或转换成油轮。大多数人认为，使用危险，昂贵的方法将核潜艇作为油轮的想法是荒谬的。但退休无用的台风级潜艇的想法则非常有意义。
不过，海军否认台风面临销毁。一名官员说，国防部并没有作出这样的决定，潜艇仍为海军服役。”
在最好的情况下，台风级潜艇将安装新型导弹，并且服役期延长八年。即使那时，俄罗斯的海底战略舰队实力将几乎不可避免地缩水。除去三个台风级潜艇，海军估计拥有11导弹核潜艇：五个可以追溯到20世纪70年代末80年代初D-III核潜艇，六个略微年轻的D-IV核潜艇。D-III核潜艇不太可能服役到2020年以后。
俄罗斯在2006年和2015年之间应该建造七个北风级核潜艇。连带D-III核潜艇，他们将保持导弹潜艇力量。但是，工程延误就意味着，到目前为止，只有两个北风级核潜艇已经完成。由于“布拉瓦”导弹的问题，两者都没有进行战术上的航行。
按照这个速度，即使他们保留到2019年，旧德尔塔级核潜艇退役的速度将快于北风级核潜艇取代它们的速度。台风级核潜艇也可能在没有替代的情况下直接退役。十年之内，俄罗斯可能仅拥有半打的作战导弹潜艇。
减少美国和俄罗斯的核武器储备到近50年来最低水平，但这仍足够高。美国和俄罗斯仍然是世界领先的核大国。
大部分俄罗斯的核武器是以导弹潜艇为基础的，如果没有更多的导弹潜艇，迫使他们努力进行谈判的动力将会消失，麻省理工学院的分析师告诉这名外交官，“仅仅因为这个原因，他们已经行动来改变导弹潜艇的状况。”
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
评论翻译:The Mad Guesser ：
a president who understand­s that we now have the Russians with their pants down so the joint chiefs will have no choice but to order a first strike before these Commie barbarians finish building their subs. Billions of new jobs as Rubble Sifters will be created. Our 2012 American voters are too clever to elect some pansy like Truman who had a window period of 1945-1949 when America had the bomb and the Commies didn't, but he refused to obliterate these savages. Our next president would never let such a chance slip through our fingers since those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
在2012年，美国人将选出一名总统，其知道我们现在让俄罗斯脱下自己的裤子，以便参谋长联席会议将别无选择，只能在这些蛮人完成建造自己的潜艇之前先下手为强，将会创造数十亿就业机会。我们2012年的美国选民太聪明，不会选出像杜鲁门那样的总统，1945年至1949年的空窗期时，美国拥有炸弹，俄罗斯却没有，但他拒绝抹杀这些野蛮人。我们的下一任总统不会让这样的机会在我们的手指间溜走，因为那些不从历史中吸取教训的人是注定要重蹈覆辙的。
publiusmax ：
Sarcasm, or are you actually looking forward to seeing the thousands of warheads the Russians would still have devestatin­g our cities? Once you get to the point where the enemy has at least a couple of hundred nuclear warheads in their arsenal, nuclear war becomes a no win situation. Russia has at least a cople thousand, with or without their SLBM's
讽刺，或者是你期待看到俄罗斯仍然拥有的成千上万的弹头蹂躏我们的城市？一旦你的敌人在自己的军械库至少有数百核弹头，核战争将成为一个没有双赢的局面。俄罗斯至少有一千，算或不算自己的潜射弹道导弹
Baneblade：
Put them on eBay, missiles and all.
"What if they use the missiles?" You might ask. Well in that case, they'll need more missiles, which can be sold at discount.
把导弹都放到网上出售吧。
“如果他们使用导弹呢？”你也许会问。在这种情况下，他们将需要更多的导弹，可以低价出售了。
publiusmax ：
For some strange reason a lot of Americans are under the impression that Russian and Chinese ICBM's are actually some sort of bottle rockets. Thank goodness that nobody that stupid has ever been in the White House, and there are only two people who might be that stupid who are possible candidates for 2012. One of them apparently isn't running and the other one looks like she's already out of the race.
由于一些奇怪的原因，很多美国人的印象是，俄罗斯和中国洲际导弹实际上是某种瓶装火箭。谢天谢地，没有那样愚蠢的人曾经在白宫，现只有两个人可能如此愚蠢并且成为2012年的总统候选人。其中一人显然没有运行，另一个看起来她已经退出了比赛。
jestermarcus
The world was a lot different back then, economies weren't completely tied together like they are now. If China and America were to go to war, the entire planet would suffer. Even if one nation beat the other decisively­, the losers destroyed economy would probably drag the other down with it. Not saying it can't happen, but the consequenc­es are much more severe now than they were back then.
当年，世界与此时相比很多不同。经济并没有像现在紧密联系在一起。如果中国和美国开战，整个地球就会受到影响。即使一个国家果断击败另一个，失败者经济被毁可能会拖累其他。并不是说这是不可能发生的，但现在的后果要比他们当年更为严重。
proshot22 ：
Russian subs are only a threat to Russian sailors, those countries that purchased a Russian sub, and those countries sailors. I'm more worried about Russia's disappeari­ng journalist­s.
俄罗斯的潜艇只能威胁到俄罗斯水兵、购买俄罗斯潜艇的国家与这些国家的水手。我更担心俄罗斯慢慢消失的记者。
f0rTyLeGz ：
Not really... we have 71 nuclear submarines­. A colossal waste of taxpayer's money. Who is the threat? Just pure money down a rat's hole... like the 90,000 soldiers in Afghanista­n who are "keeping America safe." Each soldier costs the taxpayer a million bucks a year.
不是真的...我们有71艘核潜艇¬。对纳税人的金钱的巨大浪费。谁是威胁？只是单纯的把钱放入老鼠洞.. ...像在阿富汗的90000名士兵，谁是“保护美国安全”。每个士兵每年花费纳税人一百万美元。
Vuittondon13 ：
For some reason I believe both sides (Russia & US) are being deceitful act the Treaty. Just my personal hunch.
出于某种原因，我相信双方（俄罗斯和美国）正在欺骗性的行为履行Start 3条约。只是我个人的预感
smalljaws ：
The Cold War is over. If the Russians are decommissi­oning subs we should shut down the base in Japan whose mission was surveillan­ce on the comings and goings at Vladivosto­k. Let the Japanese and Koreans provide for their own defense. We have more pressing needs at home.
冷战已经结束。如果俄罗斯退役潜艇，我们应该关闭在日本的基地，其任务是监视海参崴探附近的举动。让日本和韩国为自己防卫。我们在家有更迫切的需要。
americaisracist ：
the cold war never ended. war isn't fought with just guns and bombs ya know. everyone has been positionin­g themselves through media wars, political wars, financial wars, etc.
冷战从来没有结束。战争不只是用你所知道的枪和炸弹去战斗。每个人都通过媒体战争，政治战争，金融战等定位自己。
darrtown ：
The headline made me think Russia had lost track of her subs or had sold them off to al Qaida.
标题让我误认为俄罗斯已经失去了她的潜艇踪迹，或卖给“基地”组织。
ur2nutty4me ：
Will give them the money and technology just to keep the War profiteers gong. We bailed them out of their revolution only to get screwed you don't think Americorp will bail them out to keep making massive profits at the tax payers expense. Where's when you need him.......­­.....
给他们资金和技术以使战争奸商发财吗？我们将他们从革命中挽救却被欺骗，你不会想到美国企业花费纳税人的钱帮助他们摆脱困境来赚取巨额利润。奥利北当你需要他时，Ollie North又在哪里...........
Artos ：
"But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrin­king missile-su­b fleet."
Not true at all. The U.S. could build them new subs. We are after all the Worlds Number one Preeminent Arms merchant. We can't very well let our Number one former and possibly future adversary go without a viable and equal Submarine/ Missile force. Besides we can't seem to make any money in America any other way nowadays, might as well make the Evangelica­ls happy and take one more step down the road to Armageddon­.
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
事实并非如此。美国可以为其建造新的潜艇。毕竟我们是世界头号武器商人。我们要很好地让我们的前头号和未来可能的对手拥有一个可行的和平等的潜艇/导弹部队。此外，时下我们在美国似乎无法以任何方式获取利润，倒不如使福音派高兴，并沿着世界末日的道路上迈出更大一步。
MarxEngelsLeninTrotsky ：
Russians are very clever and have excellent technology­. Considerin­g they had "no" money they kept up with the United States, now they do have money. As clever as they are when it comes to the military they still cant build a microwave or a car. I'm all for nations getting rid of weapons of war, the less in the world the better but they will have something in the pipeline unfortunat­ely. Here's hoping the US will do the same, unless Al Qaeda have suddenly started using Submarines­!
俄罗斯人很聪明，有过硬的科技。考虑到他们“没有”钱，他们曾与美国齐头并进，现在他们有钱了。虽如涉及军事那般聪明，他们却仍然不能建立一个微波或汽车。我支持国家销毁战争武器，在世界上越少越好，但不幸的是，他们在管道里仍有东西。这儿希望美国也这样做，除非“基地”组织突然开始使用潜艇！
blueman00009 ：
50%. 50% is totally managable and we will still be incredibly more powerful then the next potential adversary. Cut the carrier's in half. Cut, cut, cut.
The real threat now is not from nation states, but ter.ror.is­ts. They don't have air power or a navy or tanks. We are just wasting billions for nothing.
50％。50％是完全可管理的，那时我们仍然会令人难以置信地比未来的潜在对手更强大，那么。削减运营商的一半。砍，砍，砍。
真正的威胁，现在不是来自民族国家，而是恐怖分子。他们没有空中力量或海军或坦克。我们只是白白浪费数十亿美元。
Artos ：
I doubt that I would go so far as to agree with that statement. a Russian Missile doesn't have to be 100% accurate to hit something in the U.S. had they wanted to. Those it would have hit would be just as dead. It's kinda like Horseshoes and Handgrenad­es if you're familiar with that old saw. All you have to be is close. As to the safety of the Russian subs, well they managed to get around for plenty of years without too much trouble. IF you think they lost more than we did try to remember that we had at least two go down early on in the Nuke Subs history. They were never recovered either that I know of. The one main thing to remember about War and the enemy is that one should never underestim­ate them, because to do so is to do it at ones own peril.
我认为我会走这么远，同意这种说法。一个俄罗斯导弹不须100％准确的击中他们在美国的目标。它击中的也一样死。如果你熟悉旧的锯的话，它有点像马蹄和手榴弹，你所需的只是离它近点。至于俄罗斯潜艇的安全性，他们运行很多年并且没有太多的麻烦。我们曾要记住我们在早期，至少两个核武器潜艇下沉，他们失去的要多。他们再也没有恢复。关于战争和敌人要记住得最主要的一个就是，千万不要低估对手，因为这样做是自取灭亡。
Michael Zand ：
Good. Maybe we can start decommissi­oning our cold war era subs also and save billions in the process. We need schools not subs. The next threats facing our country don't come from nation states but from smaller independen­t terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. We and all our former cold war foes are so heavily invested in each others' economies that it makes a convention­al war between damn near impossible­.
好。也许我们可以开始退役我们冷战时期的潜艇，在这过程中我们可以节省数十亿美元。我们需要的是学校而不是潜艇。我国未来面临的威胁不是来自民族国家，而是从更小的独立的如“基地”组织般的恐怖团体。我们和我们所有的前冷战敌人大量投资于彼此的经济，这使得相互之间进行常规战争几乎是不可能的。
Vroomfondel ：
If we would close even HALF of our overseas bases and half of our redundant domestic military bases, we could easily fund a single-pay­er healthcare system and provide no-cost higher education to all of our young people, and STILL retain enough military hardware to deter any possible foreign military aggression against us.
如果我们关闭我们海外基地的一半和我们多余的国内军事基地一半，我们就可以很容易地提供资金建立单方支付卫生保健系统，并向我们所有的年轻人提供免费的高等教育，仍然能够保留足够的军事硬件，以防止任何可能的外国军事力量侵略我们。
rollingrock ：
Russia and United States have one thing in common....­their respective defense industries are a massive black hole that have bankrupted both countries.
俄罗斯和美国有一个共同点....，各自的国防工业是一个巨大的黑洞，是两个国家面临破产。
MikeDu ：
The article neglected to mention the *pointless­ness* of the whole exercise. Is Russia going to blow up the US? Is the US going to blow up Russiaa? They might as well be maintainin­g a stockpile of warhorses and suits of armor for all the military apllicatio­n those weapons have,
文章没有提到整个演习的*毫无意义*。俄罗斯是要炸毁美国？是美国打算炸毁俄罗斯？他们可能是为所有这些武器的军事应用维持战马和盔甲的储备，
agro23 ：
I know! How about the Russians just retire them and then in an act of good faith we match the reductions to our subs & missiles to maintain balance?
我知道了！俄罗斯刚刚退役核潜艇，然后以一个善意的举动，我们削减我们的潜艇和导弹与之相匹配以保持平衡？
The Canadian ：
Didn't this used to be Moscow's ever-sinki­ng missile-su­b fleet?
Russian lost at least 6 subs by accidents that they acknowledg­e since 1970, with most of these coming in the 80s or later. By contrast, America has lost two subs be accident, both of these in the 1960s.
Russian subs: They go down, but they don't come up. Either way, their fleet definitely shrinks in size.
这个不是莫斯科曾经不断下沉导弹潜艇舰队？自1970年以来，俄罗斯已知他们因意外失去了至少6潜艇，大多数在80年代或以后建造的。相比之下，美国已意外经失去了两个潜艇，都是20世纪60年代的。
俄罗斯潜艇：他们下沉了，但他们不再上来。无论哪种方式，他们的舰队规模一定缩小。
coolhand66 ：
let us do the same. the cost of keeping nuclear weapons $180 billion or more over next decade.
right now we the "USA" have about 3400 nuclear weapons down from about 32000 nuclear weapons. all you realy need is aroand 50-100 nuclear weapons.
让我们同样做。未来10年保持核武器的的成本180亿美元或更多。现在我们的“美国”从约32000枚核武器减至约3400枚。你真正需要的是大约50-100枚核武器。
rcozad ：
It is further proof that neither the Russians nor the US can afford the outrageous costs incurred by the maintenanc­e of a bloated military. Unfortunat­ely for us Russia has come to this conclusion more rapidly than the US !
这进一步证明，无论是俄罗斯还是美国都负担不起维护臃肿的军事产生的离谱费用。对我们来说，不幸的是俄罗斯比美国更迅速地得出这样的结论！
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
www.ltaaa.com/wtfy/3134.html
Russia's Disappearing Subs
作者:Michael 发布日期:2011-10-12 09:40:23 浏览:2699
译文简介:关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。 译文来源:原文链接：www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/04/russias-disappearing-subs_n_994011.html?ref=russia
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
正文翻译:
A debate is raging over whether Russia will soon decommission its three gigantic Typhoon-class nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines. With or without the enormous Typhoons, each of which displaces 34,000 tons while submerged, Russia's undersea fleet is all but certain to decline – and that has strategic implications for Moscow and Washington.
Prior to last week, it was reportedly the official plan of the Russian navy to keep all three of the surviving, 1980s-vintage Typhoons in service until 2019, following the addition of unspecified, new-generation, nuclear-tipped missiles. ‘They have good modernization potential,’ Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.
One of the Typhoons is currently serving as a test bed for the new Bulava missile, the main nuclear armament of the Borey-class submarines, the first of which entered trials in 2009. Two other Typhoons are held in reserve until new missiles can be fitted to replace the now-retired SS-N-20s. None of the Typhoons is available for strategic patrols.
In light of the lack of missiles, plus new limits on nuclear weapons imposed by the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty 3, ratified by the United States and Russia last year, navy sources said last week that the Typhoons would be decommissioned or converted into tankers. The idea of using dangerous, expensive-to-operate nuclear submarines as tankers is seen by most as ridiculous. But the notion of retiring the useless Typhoons makes perfect sense
Still, the Navy denies the Typhoons face the chopping block. ‘The Defence Ministry has not made such a decision,’ an official said. ‘The submarines remain in service with the Navy.’
.Under the best of circumstances, the Typhoons will get new missiles and remain in service another eight years. Even then, the Russian undersea strategic fleet will almost inevitably shrink. Besides the three Typhoons, the Navy possesses an estimated 11 missile submarines: five Delta IIIs dating from the late 1970s and early 1980s and six slightly younger Delta IVs. The Delta IIIs are unlikely to last beyond 2020.
Russia was supposed to build seven Borey submarines between 2006 and 2015. They, along with the Delta IVs, would preserve the missile-boat force. But construction delays mean just two Boreys have been completed so far. Neither has sailed on an operational cruise owing to problems with the Bulava missile.
At this rate, the older Deltas will retire faster than Boreys can replace them. Even if they’re retained until 2019, the Typhoons, too, could decommission without direct replacements. Within a decade, Russia could possess just half a dozen operational missile submarines.
And that could undermine START 3, which was predicated on reducing US and Russian nuclear weapons stockpiles to just 1,550 apiece – the lowest level in 50 years, but still high enough that Washington and Russia remained the world’s leading nuclear powers.
Most of Russia’s nuclear weapons are submarine-based. Without more missile subs, ‘the force they negotiated so hard for will disappear,’ Owen Cote, Jr., an analyst at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told The Diplomat. ‘They've got to do something to turn the submarine situation around, for that reason alone.’
But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrinking missile-sub fleet.
关于俄罗斯是否将很快退役它的三个巨大的台风级核动力弹道导弹潜艇的辩论来势汹汹。拥有排水量34,000吨的潜艇与否，俄罗斯的海底舰队实力肯定会有所下降，这对莫斯科和华盛顿来说具有战略意义。
上周之前，据报道，俄海军官方的计划在增加秘密的的新一代核弹头的导弹之后继续保留这三个20世纪80年代风格的正在服役的潜艇直到2019年之后。弗拉基米尔·维索茨基海军上将表示：“他们有较大的的现代化潜力。”
台风级潜艇中，一个是目前作为新的“布拉瓦”导弹试验台——北风之神级潜艇的主要核军备，首先于2009年进入试验。另外两个台风级潜艇在储备举行，直到新的导弹安装以取代现在已经退役的SS - N- 20。没有台风级潜艇用于战略巡逻。
鉴于导弹的不足，再加上由美国和俄罗斯去年批准的新的限制核武器的《削减战略武器第3条约》，海军上周称，台风级潜艇将退役或转换成油轮。大多数人认为，使用危险，昂贵的方法将核潜艇作为油轮的想法是荒谬的。但退休无用的台风级潜艇的想法则非常有意义。
不过，海军否认台风面临销毁。一名官员说，国防部并没有作出这样的决定，潜艇仍为海军服役。”
在最好的情况下，台风级潜艇将安装新型导弹，并且服役期延长八年。即使那时，俄罗斯的海底战略舰队实力将几乎不可避免地缩水。除去三个台风级潜艇，海军估计拥有11导弹核潜艇：五个可以追溯到20世纪70年代末80年代初D-III核潜艇，六个略微年轻的D-IV核潜艇。D-III核潜艇不太可能服役到2020年以后。
俄罗斯在2006年和2015年之间应该建造七个北风级核潜艇。连带D-III核潜艇，他们将保持导弹潜艇力量。但是，工程延误就意味着，到目前为止，只有两个北风级核潜艇已经完成。由于“布拉瓦”导弹的问题，两者都没有进行战术上的航行。
按照这个速度，即使他们保留到2019年，旧德尔塔级核潜艇退役的速度将快于北风级核潜艇取代它们的速度。台风级核潜艇也可能在没有替代的情况下直接退役。十年之内，俄罗斯可能仅拥有半打的作战导弹潜艇。
减少美国和俄罗斯的核武器储备到近50年来最低水平，但这仍足够高。美国和俄罗斯仍然是世界领先的核大国。
大部分俄罗斯的核武器是以导弹潜艇为基础的，如果没有更多的导弹潜艇，迫使他们努力进行谈判的动力将会消失，麻省理工学院的分析师告诉这名外交官，“仅仅因为这个原因，他们已经行动来改变导弹潜艇的状况。”
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
原创翻译：http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
评论翻译:The Mad Guesser ：
a president who understand­s that we now have the Russians with their pants down so the joint chiefs will have no choice but to order a first strike before these Commie barbarians finish building their subs. Billions of new jobs as Rubble Sifters will be created. Our 2012 American voters are too clever to elect some pansy like Truman who had a window period of 1945-1949 when America had the bomb and the Commies didn't, but he refused to obliterate these savages. Our next president would never let such a chance slip through our fingers since those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
在2012年，美国人将选出一名总统，其知道我们现在让俄罗斯脱下自己的裤子，以便参谋长联席会议将别无选择，只能在这些蛮人完成建造自己的潜艇之前先下手为强，将会创造数十亿就业机会。我们2012年的美国选民太聪明，不会选出像杜鲁门那样的总统，1945年至1949年的空窗期时，美国拥有炸弹，俄罗斯却没有，但他拒绝抹杀这些野蛮人。我们的下一任总统不会让这样的机会在我们的手指间溜走，因为那些不从历史中吸取教训的人是注定要重蹈覆辙的。
publiusmax ：
Sarcasm, or are you actually looking forward to seeing the thousands of warheads the Russians would still have devestatin­g our cities? Once you get to the point where the enemy has at least a couple of hundred nuclear warheads in their arsenal, nuclear war becomes a no win situation. Russia has at least a cople thousand, with or without their SLBM's
讽刺，或者是你期待看到俄罗斯仍然拥有的成千上万的弹头蹂躏我们的城市？一旦你的敌人在自己的军械库至少有数百核弹头，核战争将成为一个没有双赢的局面。俄罗斯至少有一千，算或不算自己的潜射弹道导弹
Baneblade：
Put them on eBay, missiles and all.
"What if they use the missiles?" You might ask. Well in that case, they'll need more missiles, which can be sold at discount.
把导弹都放到网上出售吧。
“如果他们使用导弹呢？”你也许会问。在这种情况下，他们将需要更多的导弹，可以低价出售了。
publiusmax ：
For some strange reason a lot of Americans are under the impression that Russian and Chinese ICBM's are actually some sort of bottle rockets. Thank goodness that nobody that stupid has ever been in the White House, and there are only two people who might be that stupid who are possible candidates for 2012. One of them apparently isn't running and the other one looks like she's already out of the race.
由于一些奇怪的原因，很多美国人的印象是，俄罗斯和中国洲际导弹实际上是某种瓶装火箭。谢天谢地，没有那样愚蠢的人曾经在白宫，现只有两个人可能如此愚蠢并且成为2012年的总统候选人。其中一人显然没有运行，另一个看起来她已经退出了比赛。
jestermarcus
The world was a lot different back then, economies weren't completely tied together like they are now. If China and America were to go to war, the entire planet would suffer. Even if one nation beat the other decisively­, the losers destroyed economy would probably drag the other down with it. Not saying it can't happen, but the consequenc­es are much more severe now than they were back then.
当年，世界与此时相比很多不同。经济并没有像现在紧密联系在一起。如果中国和美国开战，整个地球就会受到影响。即使一个国家果断击败另一个，失败者经济被毁可能会拖累其他。并不是说这是不可能发生的，但现在的后果要比他们当年更为严重。
proshot22 ：
Russian subs are only a threat to Russian sailors, those countries that purchased a Russian sub, and those countries sailors. I'm more worried about Russia's disappeari­ng journalist­s.
俄罗斯的潜艇只能威胁到俄罗斯水兵、购买俄罗斯潜艇的国家与这些国家的水手。我更担心俄罗斯慢慢消失的记者。
f0rTyLeGz ：
Not really... we have 71 nuclear submarines­. A colossal waste of taxpayer's money. Who is the threat? Just pure money down a rat's hole... like the 90,000 soldiers in Afghanista­n who are "keeping America safe." Each soldier costs the taxpayer a million bucks a year.
不是真的...我们有71艘核潜艇¬。对纳税人的金钱的巨大浪费。谁是威胁？只是单纯的把钱放入老鼠洞.. ...像在阿富汗的90000名士兵，谁是“保护美国安全”。每个士兵每年花费纳税人一百万美元。
Vuittondon13 ：
For some reason I believe both sides (Russia & US) are being deceitful act the Treaty. Just my personal hunch.
出于某种原因，我相信双方（俄罗斯和美国）正在欺骗性的行为履行Start 3条约。只是我个人的预感
smalljaws ：
The Cold War is over. If the Russians are decommissi­oning subs we should shut down the base in Japan whose mission was surveillan­ce on the comings and goings at Vladivosto­k. Let the Japanese and Koreans provide for their own defense. We have more pressing needs at home.
冷战已经结束。如果俄罗斯退役潜艇，我们应该关闭在日本的基地，其任务是监视海参崴探附近的举动。让日本和韩国为自己防卫。我们在家有更迫切的需要。
americaisracist ：
the cold war never ended. war isn't fought with just guns and bombs ya know. everyone has been positionin­g themselves through media wars, political wars, financial wars, etc.
冷战从来没有结束。战争不只是用你所知道的枪和炸弹去战斗。每个人都通过媒体战争，政治战争，金融战等定位自己。
darrtown ：
The headline made me think Russia had lost track of her subs or had sold them off to al Qaida.
标题让我误认为俄罗斯已经失去了她的潜艇踪迹，或卖给“基地”组织。
ur2nutty4me ：
Will give them the money and technology just to keep the War profiteers gong. We bailed them out of their revolution only to get screwed you don't think Americorp will bail them out to keep making massive profits at the tax payers expense. Where's when you need him.......­­.....
给他们资金和技术以使战争奸商发财吗？我们将他们从革命中挽救却被欺骗，你不会想到美国企业花费纳税人的钱帮助他们摆脱困境来赚取巨额利润。奥利北当你需要他时，Ollie North又在哪里...........
Artos ：
"But there's no clear remedy for Moscow's ever-shrin­king missile-su­b fleet."
Not true at all. The U.S. could build them new subs. We are after all the Worlds Number one Preeminent Arms merchant. We can't very well let our Number one former and possibly future adversary go without a viable and equal Submarine/ Missile force. Besides we can't seem to make any money in America any other way nowadays, might as well make the Evangelica­ls happy and take one more step down the road to Armageddon­.
但目前还没有明确的补救莫斯科的不断缩小的导弹潜艇舰队得措施。
事实并非如此。美国可以为其建造新的潜艇。毕竟我们是世界头号武器商人。我们要很好地让我们的前头号和未来可能的对手拥有一个可行的和平等的潜艇/导弹部队。此外，时下我们在美国似乎无法以任何方式获取利润，倒不如使福音派高兴，并沿着世界末日的道路上迈出更大一步。
MarxEngelsLeninTrotsky ：
Russians are very clever and have excellent technology­. Considerin­g they had "no" money they kept up with the United States, now they do have money. As clever as they are when it comes to the military they still cant build a microwave or a car. I'm all for nations getting rid of weapons of war, the less in the world the better but they will have something in the pipeline unfortunat­ely. Here's hoping the US will do the same, unless Al Qaeda have suddenly started using Submarines­!
俄罗斯人很聪明，有过硬的科技。考虑到他们“没有”钱，他们曾与美国齐头并进，现在他们有钱了。虽如涉及军事那般聪明，他们却仍然不能建立一个微波或汽车。我支持国家销毁战争武器，在世界上越少越好，但不幸的是，他们在管道里仍有东西。这儿希望美国也这样做，除非“基地”组织突然开始使用潜艇！
blueman00009 ：
50%. 50% is totally managable and we will still be incredibly more powerful then the next potential adversary. Cut the carrier's in half. Cut, cut, cut.
The real threat now is not from nation states, but ter.ror.is­ts. They don't have air power or a navy or tanks. We are just wasting billions for nothing.
50％。50％是完全可管理的，那时我们仍然会令人难以置信地比未来的潜在对手更强大，那么。削减运营商的一半。砍，砍，砍。
真正的威胁，现在不是来自民族国家，而是恐怖分子。他们没有空中力量或海军或坦克。我们只是白白浪费数十亿美元。
Artos ：
I doubt that I would go so far as to agree with that statement. a Russian Missile doesn't have to be 100% accurate to hit something in the U.S. had they wanted to. Those it would have hit would be just as dead. It's kinda like Horseshoes and Handgrenad­es if you're familiar with that old saw. All you have to be is close. As to the safety of the Russian subs, well they managed to get around for plenty of years without too much trouble. IF you think they lost more than we did try to remember that we had at least two go down early on in the Nuke Subs history. They were never recovered either that I know of. The one main thing to remember about War and the enemy is that one should never underestim­ate them, because to do so is to do it at ones own peril.
我认为我会走这么远，同意这种说法。一个俄罗斯导弹不须100％准确的击中他们在美国的目标。它击中的也一样死。如果你熟悉旧的锯的话，它有点像马蹄和手榴弹，你所需的只是离它近点。至于俄罗斯潜艇的安全性，他们运行很多年并且没有太多的麻烦。我们曾要记住我们在早期，至少两个核武器潜艇下沉，他们失去的要多。他们再也没有恢复。关于战争和敌人要记住得最主要的一个就是，千万不要低估对手，因为这样做是自取灭亡。
Michael Zand ：
Good. Maybe we can start decommissi­oning our cold war era subs also and save billions in the process. We need schools not subs. The next threats facing our country don't come from nation states but from smaller independen­t terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. We and all our former cold war foes are so heavily invested in each others' economies that it makes a convention­al war between damn near impossible­.
好。也许我们可以开始退役我们冷战时期的潜艇，在这过程中我们可以节省数十亿美元。我们需要的是学校而不是潜艇。我国未来面临的威胁不是来自民族国家，而是从更小的独立的如“基地”组织般的恐怖团体。我们和我们所有的前冷战敌人大量投资于彼此的经济，这使得相互之间进行常规战争几乎是不可能的。
Vroomfondel ：
If we would close even HALF of our overseas bases and half of our redundant domestic military bases, we could easily fund a single-pay­er healthcare system and provide no-cost higher education to all of our young people, and STILL retain enough military hardware to deter any possible foreign military aggression against us.
如果我们关闭我们海外基地的一半和我们多余的国内军事基地一半，我们就可以很容易地提供资金建立单方支付卫生保健系统，并向我们所有的年轻人提供免费的高等教育，仍然能够保留足够的军事硬件，以防止任何可能的外国军事力量侵略我们。
rollingrock ：
Russia and United States have one thing in common....­their respective defense industries are a massive black hole that have bankrupted both countries.
俄罗斯和美国有一个共同点....，各自的国防工业是一个巨大的黑洞，是两个国家面临破产。
MikeDu ：
The article neglected to mention the *pointless­ness* of the whole exercise. Is Russia going to blow up the US? Is the US going to blow up Russiaa? They might as well be maintainin­g a stockpile of warhorses and suits of armor for all the military apllicatio­n those weapons have,
文章没有提到整个演习的*毫无意义*。俄罗斯是要炸毁美国？是美国打算炸毁俄罗斯？他们可能是为所有这些武器的军事应用维持战马和盔甲的储备，
agro23 ：
I know! How about the Russians just retire them and then in an act of good faith we match the reductions to our subs & missiles to maintain balance?
我知道了！俄罗斯刚刚退役核潜艇，然后以一个善意的举动，我们削减我们的潜艇和导弹与之相匹配以保持平衡？
The Canadian ：
Didn't this used to be Moscow's ever-sinki­ng missile-su­b fleet?
Russian lost at least 6 subs by accidents that they acknowledg­e since 1970, with most of these coming in the 80s or later. By contrast, America has lost two subs be accident, both of these in the 1960s.
Russian subs: They go down, but they don't come up. Either way, their fleet definitely shrinks in size.
这个不是莫斯科曾经不断下沉导弹潜艇舰队？自1970年以来，俄罗斯已知他们因意外失去了至少6潜艇，大多数在80年代或以后建造的。相比之下，美国已意外经失去了两个潜艇，都是20世纪60年代的。
俄罗斯潜艇：他们下沉了，但他们不再上来。无论哪种方式，他们的舰队规模一定缩小。
coolhand66 ：
let us do the same. the cost of keeping nuclear weapons $180 billion or more over next decade.
right now we the "USA" have about 3400 nuclear weapons down from about 32000 nuclear weapons. all you realy need is aroand 50-100 nuclear weapons.
让我们同样做。未来10年保持核武器的的成本180亿美元或更多。现在我们的“美国”从约32000枚核武器减至约3400枚。你真正需要的是大约50-100枚核武器。
rcozad ：
It is further proof that neither the Russians nor the US can afford the outrageous costs incurred by the maintenanc­e of a bloated military. Unfortunat­ely for us Russia has come to this conclusion more rapidly than the US !
这进一步证明，无论是俄罗斯还是美国都负担不起维护臃肿的军事产生的离谱费用。对我们来说，不幸的是俄罗斯比美国更迅速地得出这样的结论！
原创翻译：www.ltaaa.com 翻译：Michael 转载请注明出处
没钱的悲剧，另外毛子的型号也实在多，搞得维护压力。。。
节约军费用于北风之神
该淘汰的都得淘汰了
北风之神！
保留重点型号吧，军费压力大啊
快雪时晴 发表于 2011-10-12 16:47 
该淘汰的都得淘汰了
羡慕你ID的升级速度，咱俩差不多时间注册的~
该淘汰的都得淘汰了
羡慕你ID的升级速度，咱俩差不多时间注册的~
北风之神
MDP民心态很复杂 貌似？
TG能不能花点儿钱弄几个专家过来。。。
退役的话能不能按收废钢材收过来。研究研究也是好的嘛。。。
退役的话能不能按收废钢材收过来。研究研究也是好的嘛。。。
有普京大帝就行了，潜艇飞机什么的都是浮云，毛粉如是说
俄罗斯一方面经济不行，一方面还要死撑苏联留下的战略目标——北冰洋、远东太平洋、中亚、东欧
寿命到了 没办法
都消失了才好
毛子现在也是财力有限，虽然比前几年好点
好帖，顶！
- 发送自我的 iPhone 大板凳应用
- 发送自我的 iPhone 大板凳应用
不光是没钱吧，也是为了在1500个核弹头里平衡分配。台风的肚子太大了，占了一半。
我又想起来冲突世界里炸台风的那剧情了
又突然很想说。要是毛子真能根MD干起来。TG是多么幸福啊。。。