转载美国军迷讨论：中国给巴基斯坦50架袅龙（JF17)战机

来源：百度文库编辑：超级军网时间：2024/05/03 23:53:54

译文简介:
伊斯兰堡，巴基斯坦— 按照约定，中国将立即为巴基斯坦提供50架枭龙（巴基斯坦人称为JF-17)战斗机，这是巴基斯坦总理Yousaf Raza Gilani这周访问北京的主要成果，巴基斯坦官员们星期四说道。
译文来源:
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui
源文地址：ttp://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/hfny9/china_gives_pakistan_50_fighter_jets/
正文翻译:

伊斯兰堡，巴基斯坦— 按照约定，中国将立即为巴基斯坦提供50架枭龙（巴基斯坦人称为JF-17)战斗机，这是巴基斯坦总理Yousaf Raza Gilani这周访问北京的主要成果，巴基斯坦官员们星期四说道。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

中国和巴基斯坦联合生产的枭龙战机，但是新机将装备更先进的航空电子设备，这些官员们说道。这些最近的战机将由中国掏钱，他们说道。

公告表示巴基斯坦和美国本已经紧张的关系在美国5月2号深入巴基斯坦境内杀死本拉登之后进一步加剧。

上周，巴基斯坦的情报长官国会前在一份罕见的简报上强烈谴责美国侵害巴基斯坦主权的行为。接着，国会要求政府重新调整跟美国的关系。

Gilani's 先生作为巴基斯坦国内意见的代表人来拜访北京，他们的意见是寻求重新调整与美国的关系，这被很多人认为是用中国的支持来抵消对华盛顿的依赖。

美国目前大概为巴基斯坦提供了200亿美元的援助，大部分是军事援助，主要是为了与巴基斯坦合作来打击恐怖主义在911之后。大部分的援助是以补偿巴基斯坦反恐怖主义的名义来给予的。

虽然奥巴马政府仍然想与巴基斯坦合作来减轻阿富汗战场上的压力和根除恐怖组织，但是一些美国立法者现在则号召削减，暂停对巴基斯坦的援助。

对巴基斯坦的官员们来说，他们对美国政府感到很愤怒，因为直到美国直升机带着海豹突击队离开巴基斯坦才通知说：不好意思，兄弟，刚刚去你家杀了下人放了下火，不过真是太过瘾了，我的民意支持率都上升了快两个点，而且还免费看了场大片。

Gilani's先生为期四天对中国的访问可能会对巴基斯坦试图抬升对美国的影响产生帮助。在他拜访的期间，Giilani先生与中国总理温家宝会面，温家宝支持巴基斯坦的美国应该尊重巴基斯坦的主权的说法。

这条关于枭龙战机的消息是一个非常明确的信号，那就是巴基斯坦将可以获得能够替代华盛顿的采购，虽然这笔交易的价值对于巴基斯坦军方的能力来说象征意义大于现实作用。

巴基斯坦军方官员一贯抱怨美国的援助，因为美国不愿意在某些项目提供帮助，导致他们在很多基本的军事项目中，都不符合标准，尽管如此，他们还是想继续接受美国的援助。

美国为巴基斯坦提供F-16战机来帮助他们比得上他们竞争对手-印度的空军实力，但是巴基斯坦军方官员抱怨他们的F-16正在不断老化。

这笔交易的另外一个信号是中巴关系比巴美关系的障碍要少的多，在许多方面巴基斯坦和中国的利益更容易保持一致。

美国是巴基斯坦最大的捐助者，但是中国是巴基斯坦最大的贸易伙伴，近些年来中国大量投资修建瓜达尔的深水港——（译者注：个人补充一下资料，瓜达尔是巴基斯坦的港口城市，沿印度洋，靠近霍尔木兹海峡，波斯湾的出口，如果我没记错的话，中国正在修建直通瓜达尔的铁路，到时候中亚和北非的石油将会源源不断的从这条铁路运进国内，其中的战略意义是人基本都能看出来，。）

中国经常被称为巴基斯坦的全天候盟友，这与美国和巴基斯坦起伏不定的关系形成鲜明的对比，后者在巴基斯坦非常不受欢迎。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

美国寄希望于与印度的特殊关系。从另外一个方面来说，中国和巴基斯坦都将印度视为竞争对手。在印度的地区影响力上他们享有相同的利益，特别是当美国减少他在阿富汗的军事力量时，根据奥巴马的说法，这个夏天将要启动这个计划（就是减少在阿富汗的驻军）。

根据阿富汗官员们的说法，在4月16号，阿富汗首都，喀布尔举行的一个标志性的会议上，巴基斯坦的高官们对阿富汗的领导人建议道，你们需要注意中国是一股正在上升的力量，这好过与美国结盟。

一个阿富汗官员后来说到：“你不能说他们到底是什么意思，中国是否可能是美国的一个替代的选择，但是他们说过这将帮助双方。”

评论翻译:

A评论：（每个评论下面都有许多回复，就直接列在每个评论的下面，每个评论前面我都会表个字母）。

[–]boomer56 104 points 13 hours ago*
Also, an attack on Pakistan is an attack on China.
Edit: The more I think about this, the more incredible this policy change becomes...China guaranteeing Pakistani security? What is India thinking tonight?
我越想，这个政策。。。。中国担保巴基斯坦的安全？印度今天会想什么？
Isentrope 18 points 9 hours ago
It's not really much of a policy change and India has known this for a long while. Pakistan and China have very strong relations with one another and China has openly sent material and weapons to Pakistan to aid in fighting India.

这个政策并不会改变多少，印度明白这个很久了。中国和巴基斯坦彼此有很牢固的关系，中国公开送原材料和武器给巴基斯坦用来对抗印度。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]ashray 12 points 7 hours ago
Including Nukes. This was alleged for a long time but recently confirmed based on some de-classification. The Wikipedia article on it has this info:
包括核武器，这已经被宣扬很长时间了，但是最近才根据一些文件确认，维基百科上的文章有些信息。
[–]princeton_cuppa 4 points 3 hours ago
exactly, pak nukes = made in china pak exists because of hatred of india which china feeds since it hates India/US/Japan - practically anything which can potentially kicks China's butt.
正确，巴基斯坦的核武器=中国制造。巴基斯坦的存在是因为中国培养的对印度的仇恨，自从中国讨厌印度/美国/日本-实际上无论什么事都可能用来踢中国的屁股。
Isentrope 1 point 19 seconds ago
China's hatred for India stems from when they had a hardline Prime Minister in the late '50s early '60s (Nehru I think? Not sure about that). Prior to this the two countries actually had extremely good relations, but the political shift occurred after Tibet was occupied by the PLA; prior to that, one of the intentions of having Tibet be independent in the first place was to act as a buffer between China and India the same way Nepal and Bhutan function.
Chinese hatred for Japan is pretty self explanatory, and Chinese hatred for the US has died down in recent years out of more of a desire to emulate the US' success.
中国对印度的憎恨源于当时的印度有一个强硬派总理，在50年代后期和60年代的初期（我猜是尼赫鲁？但是不确认）。在这之前这两个国家有非常好的关系，但是政策突然发生变化在西藏被人民解放军占领以后；在此之前，印度支持让西藏独立的目的之一起初是让西藏像尼泊尔和不丹一样作为两国之间的缓冲区。
中国对日本的憎恨纯粹就是不需要解释的，中国对美国的憎恨是由于希望模仿美国的成功当美国在最近几年开始逐渐没落的时候。

B.评论：

petewilko 38 points 11 hours ago
Nothing new, India and China continue to have issues with each other. Anytime you hear of some military airplanes India acquires, usually you'll find its range is able of a round trip to Beijing.
没有新意，印度和中国互相总是有矛盾。你听到的所有关于印度获得的一些关于战斗机的消息，我们会发现这些战斗机的航程能够到北京飞一个来回。

[–]itcouldbe 34 points 10 hours ago
The PRC seems to have issues with all its neighbors.
中国似乎与他所有的邻居都有矛盾。
[–]gsfgf 14 points 4 hours ago
It's between Russia and India. Anyone would have neighbor issues.
这是俄罗斯与印度之间的问题，大家与邻居都有矛盾。
[–]Tornado54 3 points 2 hours ago
Really? why would anyone have issues with India again?

真的？为什么大家与印度总有矛盾？
[–]314R8 3 points 2 hours ago
and what about Taiwan, Japan, Korea, phillipines etc? How come China has issues with all of them? (I can see the historic issue with Japan, but what about the others?)
Maybe China does not like it's democratic neighbors? or the problem IS China
对于台湾，日本，韩国，菲律宾怎么样？中国怎么和它们都有矛盾？（我知道日本是因为历史原因，但是其他呢？）
中国可能不喜欢他的民主邻居们？或者说问题在中国。
[–]ofisnothavedamnit 3 points 53 minutes ago
Issues with Taiwan are no surprise really. The guy who Mao drove out to make modern China retreated to Taiwan and the rest of the world defended him there. Not only that, but PRC wasn't recognized as a country for a long period of time by US and Europe and instead the government in Taiwan was recognized as a the Chinese government. There is a lot of history to Chinese relations with its neighbors and it is definitely not an issue of China just blindly hating democracies. After all, Pakistan is technically a democracy and borders China and they seem to have pretty amicable relations.
By the way, I am not taking sides on any of those conflicts. They were all pretty complicated.
和台湾有矛盾真的一点都不令人惊讶。被毛泽东逐出的那帮人让近代中国撤退到台湾，世界上其他的国家都帮他们保卫台湾。不仅如此，中华人民共和国很长时间都不被美国和欧洲承认，作为代替，台湾政府被认为是中国政府。这里有很多关于中国和他邻居矛盾关系的历史，而不是中国只是盲目的恨民主。毕竟，巴基斯坦也是一个民主国家，而且还跟中国接壤，他们看起来非常友好。顺便说一下，我并没有偏袒任何一方，他们之间太复杂了。
[–]314R8 1 point 20 minutes ago
Pakistan's only China border is via Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. But yes, China has good relations with one of its neighbors - Pakistan. Yippee
巴基斯坦和中国唯一的边界是被巴基斯坦占领的克什米尔。能确定的是，中国和巴基斯坦有很好的关系。欢呼！
[–]Aitioma -1 points 7 hours ago
Russia and America are even worse in that respect.
So are most of the middle eastern nations.
I don't really see what you are trying to say.
A second world country trying to become a recognized industrial nation is bound to make enemies. China wants to get to the top again and tries to secure its position. If you think that's weird or dangerous, I don't really think you know much about history.
俄罗斯和美国在这方面（估计是这位网友打错词了）甚至更糟。
就跟大部分中东国家一样。
我真的不是明白你想说什么。
第二世界的国家试图变成一个公认的工业国家，这肯定会有一些敌人的。中国想再一次变成世界第一，保护它的位置。如果你认为这不可思议和危险，我认为你肯定对这方面的历史知道的不是很多。
[–]Peanut_Sniper 4 points 5 hours ago
Reminder that China is an extremely oppressive dictatorship.
提醒你中国是一个极度压迫的独裁政府。
[–]Aitioma 1 point 16 minutes ago
Reminder that America is, too.
Reminder that Russia is, too.
Reminder that all powerful countries are and that it's usually the reason for their power to begin with.
Reminder that China is overall less oppressive than America.
提醒你美国也一样。
提醒你俄罗斯也一样。
提醒你所有的强国都是一样的，这就是他们力量来源的原因。
–]princeton_cuppa 1 point 3 hours ago
again, when was it at top? as in top in say science, tech, world power which impacts foreign policy of other nations, spirituality or any particular field where it dominates it? communism maybe ... ask its people and they will tell you the story
再一次？当成为最强大的一个？在成为最强大的一个时，它的科学，技术，力量将冲击其他国家的外交政策，意识形态或其他控制的领域？共产主义有可能。。问他们的人民，他们将会告诉你。

C评论：
[–]timoleon 5 points 3 days ago
I'd be more concerned with the price Pakistan will have to pay for such diplomatic niceties. More territorial concessions perhaps?
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我更关心巴基斯坦为此付出的代价。领土的让步？
[–]spoonybard326 19 points 3 days ago
I'm guessing the price they paid has something to do with pictures of helicopter wreckage.
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我猜他们付出的代价跟那架直升机碎片的照片有关（译者注：美军打死拉丹掉的那架改装的黑鹰直升机）

[–]nibblerslitterbox 11 points 3 days ago
Pictures, pieces, whole parts. Bingo.
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照片，残片，整个部分，你说中了

[–]Druuseph 8 points 3 days ago
To be honest the helicopter is not really that important. The modifications to it were simply noise reducing, it's unlikely there was any kind of radar shielding besides a smoothed nose. It was more than likely nothing more than a Navy version of a Black Hawk with the tail replaced, it's not some super futuristic death-copter and as shown the modifications weren't exactly the best considering the damn thing lost balance when it went to hover. I know a few engineers who work for Sikorsky and when they were looking at that tail they nearly fell out of their chair wondering who though that was a good idea. A fifth blade and a covering on the middle completely changes the stabilizing capacity, it's not optimal for that body. If they really wanted a 'stealth' helicopter they should have looked into creating something similar to the Comanche which has a covered fan that provides more torque while reducing noise.
Now what they might want is the avionics that may have survived the explosion, that is true, but the 'stealth' tech is not nearly as high tech or incredible as it's being made out to be.
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诚实来讲，直升机还不值那么多钱。改装的直升机只是简单的减少了噪音。不可能有雷达干扰设备除开光滑的机头。跟海军的黑鹰直升机差别不大，只是尾翼被取代了。这并不是超级未来的牛逼直升机，只是简单的修改而且还没有考虑到特殊情况以至于盘旋的时候失去了平衡。我认识一些为SIKORSKY公司工作的工程师，当他们看到这个尾巴时，他们几乎离开了椅子想知道谁想的馊主意。第五个直升机的叶片和在中间的覆盖物彻底改变了直升机的稳定性，这并不是最佳的改造对于这款直升机来说。如果他们真的想要隐形直升机，他们应该创造一个类似于科曼奇能够覆盖住螺旋桨并能提供更大的扭矩而且能缩减噪音。
他们想要的只可能是在爆炸中幸免于难的航空电子设备，这是对的，但是隐形技术远非被制造成的那么高科技或者那么不可置信的。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]ashesashes 3 points 3 days ago
I doubt they even got the avionics, from what I've read they spent more time destroying the helicopter than finding their target.
It took approximately 15 minutes to reach bin Laden, one official said. The next 23 or so were spent blowing up the broken chopper, after rounding up nine women and 18 children to get them out of range of the blast.
Some other quotes from the AP article:
The Black Hawks were specially engineered to muffle the tail rotor and engine sound, two officials said. The added weight of the stealth technology meant cargo was calculated to the ounce, with weather factored in. The night of the mission, it was hotter than expected.
The plan unraveled as the first helicopter tried to hover over the compound. The Black Hawk skittered around uncontrollably in the heat-thinned air, forcing the pilot to land. As he did, the tail and rotor got caught on one of the compound’s 12-foot walls. The pilot quickly buried the aircraft’s nose in the dirt to keep it from tipping over, and the SEALs clambered out into an outer courtyard.
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我甚至怀疑他们能够得到航空电子设备，因为就我所看的消息，他们花了很多时间去破坏直升机，甚至超过他们寻找目标（这里的他们是指美国海军陆战队）

[–]recycle_bin 1 point 3 days ago
The skin likely had the latest stealthy paint in the US arsenal since this was a very new and still classified helicopter. Paint chips are probably the most important piece of the helicopter to China since it could advance their stealth program and perhaps lead to developing countermeasures to detect US stealth planes. The stealthy shape of the helicopter could be recreated in house in little time, but the R&D behind the paint could bring their stealth forward a decade or more from where they are today.
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表皮像是在美国军工里最新的隐性涂料，因为这是一个非常新，仍旧机密的直升机。对中国来说，隐形涂料的碎片是最重要的，因为这可以促进他们的隐形项目，可能发展对策来侦察美国的隐形飞机。直升机的形状可以在房子里用很少的时间来重新制造，但是涂料后面的R&D能够让他们的隐形技术提升十年或者更多。

[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago
i can literally guarantee that the helicopters did not have stealth paint. they flew into pakistan literally under the radar. they were entirely undetectable by radar to begin with.permalinkparent

我担保直升机并没有涂隐形涂料，他们在雷达下飞进了巴基斯坦，从一开始他们就不会被雷达发现。
[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago
radar literally does not detect anything below about 2-300 feet, even in flat terrain (which abottabad is not)
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雷达并不能侦察在200-300米下的低空，甚至在平坦的地形。

D,评论
haphapablap 11 points 3 days ago
(China Gives Pakistan 50 Fighter Jets). What a dishonest title. From the article "China and Pakistan have jointly produced the JF-17 aircraft" JOINTLY PRODUCING is not one side GIVING something to another.

这标题太假了，从“中国和巴基斯坦联合生产枭龙战机”的标题，联合生产的意思不是一方给一方。

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[–]Vnotforvendetta 5 points 3 days ago
it is when china is paying for/manufacturing these particular 50 fighters
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这是中国额外为这50架飞机支付的。

[–]n99bJedi 13 points 3 days ago
Pakistan didn't paid for it, China paid for them. and they are under Pak control... so yes, that would conclude to the title "China gives Pak 50 Fighter Jets". China's technology is far superior than Pak (if that even exists on a global level).
This can be easily explained by this analogy -
Tom and Dick jointly made cookies. Tom bought the dough, the sugar, the syrup, the chips the bowls, template cutters etc. He then also brought his mommas secret recipe that is known to only his family, to his backyard. Only a few other people in this world can make those special cookies like his mothers favorite cookies. Dick on the other hand, came. Tom then went ahead and followed the recipe. Tom and Dick both 'made' cookies, and then Tom gave them to Dick to take them home.
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巴基斯坦并不付钱，付钱的是中国。他们在巴基斯坦的控制下。所以标题应该是“中国给巴基斯坦50架飞机”。中国的技术远超巴基斯坦。
下面的分析很容易解释：
汤和迪克一起做饼干，汤买了生面团，白糖，糖浆，炸土豆条，碗，做蛋糕的模板等等，然后他带来了他妈妈的独家秘方，这个秘方只有他们家知道。在这个世界上只有很少的一些人才能做这种特别的饼干像他妈妈做的那样美味。另一方面，迪克来了，汤开始跟着秘方做。汤和迪克“一起”做了饼干，然后汤把这些饼干给了迪克，让他带回家。

[–]IbidtheWriter 10 points 3 days ago
Dick on the other hand, came.
Talk about current international relations or make easy penis jokes? I've made my decision.permalink parent
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谈谈目前的国际关系，或者弄些下流的笑话？我已经做了决定。

[–]iconoclaus 4 points 3 days ago
They didn't jointly make jack. Try finding out how many of the test flights were conducted in Pakistan or which parts were designed by Pakistani engineers. Nada. The same as its missiles which all get inducted after an amazing single test flight.
'Jointly Produced' is just to give the Pak military some honor and dignity to show its citizens.
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他们并没有一起生产战斗机。试下找出有多少飞行测试是在巴基斯坦进行的，或者说哪部分的设计是由巴基斯坦的工程师做的。就像一些导弹获得指引在一次令人惊讶的单人飞行测试中。“联合生产”只是给巴基斯坦军队一些荣誉和给他们的国民一些尊严。
[–]agent0007 6 points 3 days ago
Can someone introduce Canada to China, we are spending 16-19 billion on ours.
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有谁帮加拿大介绍给中国，我们花了160到190亿加元用于军事。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]tinfoil_hat_troll 7 points 3 days ago
F-35s > JF-17 Thunder. Although receiving free jets never hurts...
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F-35好于枭龙，虽然获得了一些免费的战机却无关痛痒。

[–]constantly_drunk 7 points 3 days ago
Our F-22s can take out multi-role planes pretty easily.
But saying an F-35 is > JF-17 is moot since the F-35 doesn't even exist in service yet. It's not going to until, what, 2015? 2016? Even then - who knows how many we can afford; they're supposed to be > $130 million each.permalinkparent

我们的F-22可以非常轻松的扮演多种角色的战机。
但是如果说F-35好于枭龙是没有实际意义的因为F-35现在还没有服役。这里将不会有“为止”，什么，2015？2016？谁知道有多少我们能买的起？他们的单价应该超过1.3亿美元一架。
[–]edenite 3 points 3 days ago
Doubt the price tag will be an issue, the F22 costs roughly 150 million each, with the USAF number about 381.
Sourcepermalinkparent[–]constantly_drunk 4 points 3 days ago
The cost isn't as much as the F22, true, but the maintenance is expected to be even higher, which is simply astounding. The pentagon's preliminary figures (without any fuckups like the F22 not being able to fly through the rain) estimate it to be $1 trillion over it's lifespan.
Which - coupled with the Navy thinking the F-35B will cost 30-40% more than the F18 - means it's just stupid expensive. Tack on the development cost onto that, and it balloons to crazy-ville levels.
But yeah - the F22 is pretty dumb for cost. Most of that is reskinning the plane everytime it flies through a patch of damp air. Brilliant piece of engineering, just holy-shit-balls expensive.Source 1Source 2permalinkparent

F35的花费没有F22那么多，这是真的，但是维护费可能会更高，这非常令人震惊。五角大楼初步估计（没有任何像F22那样不能在雨中飞的失误的话）需要一万亿在预期使用期限内。
再加上海军认为F-35B将要花费超过F18百分之30-40的费用，这意味着贵的简直愚蠢。算上开发的承办，这简直飙升到了一个疯狂的水平。
但是，F22的钱花的太愚蠢了。每次飞过潮湿的空气，大部分的F22都需要重新休检。
I still don't really understand why the US took the Pakistani side over India after the end of the Cold War.
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我仍然不理解为什么在冷战以后，美国从巴基斯坦转向印度

[–]lisasgreat 1 point 3 days ago
"I still don't really understand why the US took the Pakistani side over India after the end of the Cold War."
Are you kidding? Supporting India will work against the USA in the long term. Why not keep two poor countries fighting and ensure your long term economic success?
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“我仍然不理解为什么在冷战以后，美国从巴基斯坦转向印度。”
你是在开玩笑吗？支持印度将会对美国长时间不利。
为什么不让这两个穷国互相打仗，来保证你们长期的经济繁荣？

[–]Kruse 7 points 3 days ago
A little "thank you" gift from the Chinese for letting them see the stealth helicopter wreckage before it's given back to the U.S.
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这只是感谢巴基斯坦在归还直升机残骸给美国之前给中国看一眼的礼物。

[–]Frankocean2 2 points 3 days ago
Well, it seems inevitable that a new cold war is going to start...anyone have a catchy name for it?.
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看来新冷战将要不可避免的开始••••谁来给新冷战起一个容易记住的名字？
[–]richmomz 2 points 3 days ago
CW2: The Search for More Oil
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第二次冷战：寻找更多的石油

[–]tokenpervert 5 points 3 days ago
Dude, F-22 has tons of software written in C++. C++ today is a different beast than in the 1980s.
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伙计，大量F22的软件是用C++来写的，今天的C++跟八十年代的决然不同。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]RabidRaccoon 2 points 3 days ago*
I once worked on a big C++ system. Someone joked that the NULL pointer exception handler should prompt the user for the value the NULL pointer should have had.
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我曾经从事于一个很大的C++系统。某人开玩笑说空指针异常处理程序应该提示用户：空指针应该有价值。
[–]Notorious1994 3 points 3 days ago
China: simplist planes ever. Press this to go up, press this to turn right, press this to turn left
Pakistan: how do we go down
India: we'll take care of it
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中国：这是有史以来最简单的飞机，按这个起飞，按这个转右，按这个转左。
巴基斯坦：我们怎么下落
印度：我们会照顾你的。

[–]runfromtheraptor 1 point 3 days ago
i can see it now... "50 fighter jets spontaneously combust on a pakistan air base in the middle of the night, chaos ensues... pakistan blames america"
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在半夜，50架飞机不由自主的在巴基斯坦空军基地燃烧，接着混乱。。。巴基斯坦谴责美国。

[–]314R8 1 point 3 days ago
.. or / and India
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。。。或者/和印度

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[–]lmaoreddit 3 points 3 days ago
new cold war coming?
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新冷战来了？

[–]Kruse 1 point 3 days ago
It's already here.
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已经存在了。

译文简介:
伊斯兰堡，巴基斯坦— 按照约定，中国将立即为巴基斯坦提供50架枭龙（巴基斯坦人称为JF-17)战斗机，这是巴基斯坦总理Yousaf Raza Gilani这周访问北京的主要成果，巴基斯坦官员们星期四说道。
译文来源:
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui
源文地址：ttp://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/hfny9/china_gives_pakistan_50_fighter_jets/
正文翻译:

伊斯兰堡，巴基斯坦— 按照约定，中国将立即为巴基斯坦提供50架枭龙（巴基斯坦人称为JF-17)战斗机，这是巴基斯坦总理Yousaf Raza Gilani这周访问北京的主要成果，巴基斯坦官员们星期四说道。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

中国和巴基斯坦联合生产的枭龙战机，但是新机将装备更先进的航空电子设备，这些官员们说道。这些最近的战机将由中国掏钱，他们说道。

公告表示巴基斯坦和美国本已经紧张的关系在美国5月2号深入巴基斯坦境内杀死本拉登之后进一步加剧。

上周，巴基斯坦的情报长官国会前在一份罕见的简报上强烈谴责美国侵害巴基斯坦主权的行为。接着，国会要求政府重新调整跟美国的关系。

Gilani's 先生作为巴基斯坦国内意见的代表人来拜访北京，他们的意见是寻求重新调整与美国的关系，这被很多人认为是用中国的支持来抵消对华盛顿的依赖。

美国目前大概为巴基斯坦提供了200亿美元的援助，大部分是军事援助，主要是为了与巴基斯坦合作来打击恐怖主义在911之后。大部分的援助是以补偿巴基斯坦反恐怖主义的名义来给予的。

虽然奥巴马政府仍然想与巴基斯坦合作来减轻阿富汗战场上的压力和根除恐怖组织，但是一些美国立法者现在则号召削减，暂停对巴基斯坦的援助。

对巴基斯坦的官员们来说，他们对美国政府感到很愤怒，因为直到美国直升机带着海豹突击队离开巴基斯坦才通知说：不好意思，兄弟，刚刚去你家杀了下人放了下火，不过真是太过瘾了，我的民意支持率都上升了快两个点，而且还免费看了场大片。

Gilani's先生为期四天对中国的访问可能会对巴基斯坦试图抬升对美国的影响产生帮助。在他拜访的期间，Giilani先生与中国总理温家宝会面，温家宝支持巴基斯坦的美国应该尊重巴基斯坦的主权的说法。

这条关于枭龙战机的消息是一个非常明确的信号，那就是巴基斯坦将可以获得能够替代华盛顿的采购，虽然这笔交易的价值对于巴基斯坦军方的能力来说象征意义大于现实作用。

巴基斯坦军方官员一贯抱怨美国的援助，因为美国不愿意在某些项目提供帮助，导致他们在很多基本的军事项目中，都不符合标准，尽管如此，他们还是想继续接受美国的援助。

美国为巴基斯坦提供F-16战机来帮助他们比得上他们竞争对手-印度的空军实力，但是巴基斯坦军方官员抱怨他们的F-16正在不断老化。

这笔交易的另外一个信号是中巴关系比巴美关系的障碍要少的多，在许多方面巴基斯坦和中国的利益更容易保持一致。

美国是巴基斯坦最大的捐助者，但是中国是巴基斯坦最大的贸易伙伴，近些年来中国大量投资修建瓜达尔的深水港——（译者注：个人补充一下资料，瓜达尔是巴基斯坦的港口城市，沿印度洋，靠近霍尔木兹海峡，波斯湾的出口，如果我没记错的话，中国正在修建直通瓜达尔的铁路，到时候中亚和北非的石油将会源源不断的从这条铁路运进国内，其中的战略意义是人基本都能看出来，。）

中国经常被称为巴基斯坦的全天候盟友，这与美国和巴基斯坦起伏不定的关系形成鲜明的对比，后者在巴基斯坦非常不受欢迎。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

美国寄希望于与印度的特殊关系。从另外一个方面来说，中国和巴基斯坦都将印度视为竞争对手。在印度的地区影响力上他们享有相同的利益，特别是当美国减少他在阿富汗的军事力量时，根据奥巴马的说法，这个夏天将要启动这个计划（就是减少在阿富汗的驻军）。

根据阿富汗官员们的说法，在4月16号，阿富汗首都，喀布尔举行的一个标志性的会议上，巴基斯坦的高官们对阿富汗的领导人建议道，你们需要注意中国是一股正在上升的力量，这好过与美国结盟。

一个阿富汗官员后来说到：“你不能说他们到底是什么意思，中国是否可能是美国的一个替代的选择，但是他们说过这将帮助双方。”

评论翻译:

A评论：（每个评论下面都有许多回复，就直接列在每个评论的下面，每个评论前面我都会表个字母）。

[–]boomer56 104 points 13 hours ago*
Also, an attack on Pakistan is an attack on China.
Edit: The more I think about this, the more incredible this policy change becomes...China guaranteeing Pakistani security? What is India thinking tonight?
我越想，这个政策。。。。中国担保巴基斯坦的安全？印度今天会想什么？
Isentrope 18 points 9 hours ago
It's not really much of a policy change and India has known this for a long while. Pakistan and China have very strong relations with one another and China has openly sent material and weapons to Pakistan to aid in fighting India.

这个政策并不会改变多少，印度明白这个很久了。中国和巴基斯坦彼此有很牢固的关系，中国公开送原材料和武器给巴基斯坦用来对抗印度。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]ashray 12 points 7 hours ago
Including Nukes. This was alleged for a long time but recently confirmed based on some de-classification. The Wikipedia article on it has this info:
包括核武器，这已经被宣扬很长时间了，但是最近才根据一些文件确认，维基百科上的文章有些信息。
[–]princeton_cuppa 4 points 3 hours ago
exactly, pak nukes = made in china pak exists because of hatred of india which china feeds since it hates India/US/Japan - practically anything which can potentially kicks China's butt.
正确，巴基斯坦的核武器=中国制造。巴基斯坦的存在是因为中国培养的对印度的仇恨，自从中国讨厌印度/美国/日本-实际上无论什么事都可能用来踢中国的屁股。
Isentrope 1 point 19 seconds ago
China's hatred for India stems from when they had a hardline Prime Minister in the late '50s early '60s (Nehru I think? Not sure about that). Prior to this the two countries actually had extremely good relations, but the political shift occurred after Tibet was occupied by the PLA; prior to that, one of the intentions of having Tibet be independent in the first place was to act as a buffer between China and India the same way Nepal and Bhutan function.
Chinese hatred for Japan is pretty self explanatory, and Chinese hatred for the US has died down in recent years out of more of a desire to emulate the US' success.
中国对印度的憎恨源于当时的印度有一个强硬派总理，在50年代后期和60年代的初期（我猜是尼赫鲁？但是不确认）。在这之前这两个国家有非常好的关系，但是政策突然发生变化在西藏被人民解放军占领以后；在此之前，印度支持让西藏独立的目的之一起初是让西藏像尼泊尔和不丹一样作为两国之间的缓冲区。
中国对日本的憎恨纯粹就是不需要解释的，中国对美国的憎恨是由于希望模仿美国的成功当美国在最近几年开始逐渐没落的时候。

B.评论：

petewilko 38 points 11 hours ago
Nothing new, India and China continue to have issues with each other. Anytime you hear of some military airplanes India acquires, usually you'll find its range is able of a round trip to Beijing.
没有新意，印度和中国互相总是有矛盾。你听到的所有关于印度获得的一些关于战斗机的消息，我们会发现这些战斗机的航程能够到北京飞一个来回。

[–]itcouldbe 34 points 10 hours ago
The PRC seems to have issues with all its neighbors.
中国似乎与他所有的邻居都有矛盾。
[–]gsfgf 14 points 4 hours ago
It's between Russia and India. Anyone would have neighbor issues.
这是俄罗斯与印度之间的问题，大家与邻居都有矛盾。
[–]Tornado54 3 points 2 hours ago
Really? why would anyone have issues with India again?

真的？为什么大家与印度总有矛盾？
[–]314R8 3 points 2 hours ago
and what about Taiwan, Japan, Korea, phillipines etc? How come China has issues with all of them? (I can see the historic issue with Japan, but what about the others?)
Maybe China does not like it's democratic neighbors? or the problem IS China
对于台湾，日本，韩国，菲律宾怎么样？中国怎么和它们都有矛盾？（我知道日本是因为历史原因，但是其他呢？）
中国可能不喜欢他的民主邻居们？或者说问题在中国。
[–]ofisnothavedamnit 3 points 53 minutes ago
Issues with Taiwan are no surprise really. The guy who Mao drove out to make modern China retreated to Taiwan and the rest of the world defended him there. Not only that, but PRC wasn't recognized as a country for a long period of time by US and Europe and instead the government in Taiwan was recognized as a the Chinese government. There is a lot of history to Chinese relations with its neighbors and it is definitely not an issue of China just blindly hating democracies. After all, Pakistan is technically a democracy and borders China and they seem to have pretty amicable relations.
By the way, I am not taking sides on any of those conflicts. They were all pretty complicated.
和台湾有矛盾真的一点都不令人惊讶。被毛泽东逐出的那帮人让近代中国撤退到台湾，世界上其他的国家都帮他们保卫台湾。不仅如此，中华人民共和国很长时间都不被美国和欧洲承认，作为代替，台湾政府被认为是中国政府。这里有很多关于中国和他邻居矛盾关系的历史，而不是中国只是盲目的恨民主。毕竟，巴基斯坦也是一个民主国家，而且还跟中国接壤，他们看起来非常友好。顺便说一下，我并没有偏袒任何一方，他们之间太复杂了。
[–]314R8 1 point 20 minutes ago
Pakistan's only China border is via Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. But yes, China has good relations with one of its neighbors - Pakistan. Yippee
巴基斯坦和中国唯一的边界是被巴基斯坦占领的克什米尔。能确定的是，中国和巴基斯坦有很好的关系。欢呼！
[–]Aitioma -1 points 7 hours ago
Russia and America are even worse in that respect.
So are most of the middle eastern nations.
I don't really see what you are trying to say.
A second world country trying to become a recognized industrial nation is bound to make enemies. China wants to get to the top again and tries to secure its position. If you think that's weird or dangerous, I don't really think you know much about history.
俄罗斯和美国在这方面（估计是这位网友打错词了）甚至更糟。
就跟大部分中东国家一样。
我真的不是明白你想说什么。
第二世界的国家试图变成一个公认的工业国家，这肯定会有一些敌人的。中国想再一次变成世界第一，保护它的位置。如果你认为这不可思议和危险，我认为你肯定对这方面的历史知道的不是很多。
[–]Peanut_Sniper 4 points 5 hours ago
Reminder that China is an extremely oppressive dictatorship.
提醒你中国是一个极度压迫的独裁政府。
[–]Aitioma 1 point 16 minutes ago
Reminder that America is, too.
Reminder that Russia is, too.
Reminder that all powerful countries are and that it's usually the reason for their power to begin with.
Reminder that China is overall less oppressive than America.
提醒你美国也一样。
提醒你俄罗斯也一样。
提醒你所有的强国都是一样的，这就是他们力量来源的原因。
–]princeton_cuppa 1 point 3 hours ago
again, when was it at top? as in top in say science, tech, world power which impacts foreign policy of other nations, spirituality or any particular field where it dominates it? communism maybe ... ask its people and they will tell you the story
再一次？当成为最强大的一个？在成为最强大的一个时，它的科学，技术，力量将冲击其他国家的外交政策，意识形态或其他控制的领域？共产主义有可能。。问他们的人民，他们将会告诉你。

C评论：
[–]timoleon 5 points 3 days ago
I'd be more concerned with the price Pakistan will have to pay for such diplomatic niceties. More territorial concessions perhaps?
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我更关心巴基斯坦为此付出的代价。领土的让步？
[–]spoonybard326 19 points 3 days ago
I'm guessing the price they paid has something to do with pictures of helicopter wreckage.
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我猜他们付出的代价跟那架直升机碎片的照片有关（译者注：美军打死拉丹掉的那架改装的黑鹰直升机）

[–]nibblerslitterbox 11 points 3 days ago
Pictures, pieces, whole parts. Bingo.
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照片，残片，整个部分，你说中了

[–]Druuseph 8 points 3 days ago
To be honest the helicopter is not really that important. The modifications to it were simply noise reducing, it's unlikely there was any kind of radar shielding besides a smoothed nose. It was more than likely nothing more than a Navy version of a Black Hawk with the tail replaced, it's not some super futuristic death-copter and as shown the modifications weren't exactly the best considering the damn thing lost balance when it went to hover. I know a few engineers who work for Sikorsky and when they were looking at that tail they nearly fell out of their chair wondering who though that was a good idea. A fifth blade and a covering on the middle completely changes the stabilizing capacity, it's not optimal for that body. If they really wanted a 'stealth' helicopter they should have looked into creating something similar to the Comanche which has a covered fan that provides more torque while reducing noise.
Now what they might want is the avionics that may have survived the explosion, that is true, but the 'stealth' tech is not nearly as high tech or incredible as it's being made out to be.
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诚实来讲，直升机还不值那么多钱。改装的直升机只是简单的减少了噪音。不可能有雷达干扰设备除开光滑的机头。跟海军的黑鹰直升机差别不大，只是尾翼被取代了。这并不是超级未来的牛逼直升机，只是简单的修改而且还没有考虑到特殊情况以至于盘旋的时候失去了平衡。我认识一些为SIKORSKY公司工作的工程师，当他们看到这个尾巴时，他们几乎离开了椅子想知道谁想的馊主意。第五个直升机的叶片和在中间的覆盖物彻底改变了直升机的稳定性，这并不是最佳的改造对于这款直升机来说。如果他们真的想要隐形直升机，他们应该创造一个类似于科曼奇能够覆盖住螺旋桨并能提供更大的扭矩而且能缩减噪音。
他们想要的只可能是在爆炸中幸免于难的航空电子设备，这是对的，但是隐形技术远非被制造成的那么高科技或者那么不可置信的。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]ashesashes 3 points 3 days ago
I doubt they even got the avionics, from what I've read they spent more time destroying the helicopter than finding their target.
It took approximately 15 minutes to reach bin Laden, one official said. The next 23 or so were spent blowing up the broken chopper, after rounding up nine women and 18 children to get them out of range of the blast.
Some other quotes from the AP article:
The Black Hawks were specially engineered to muffle the tail rotor and engine sound, two officials said. The added weight of the stealth technology meant cargo was calculated to the ounce, with weather factored in. The night of the mission, it was hotter than expected.
The plan unraveled as the first helicopter tried to hover over the compound. The Black Hawk skittered around uncontrollably in the heat-thinned air, forcing the pilot to land. As he did, the tail and rotor got caught on one of the compound’s 12-foot walls. The pilot quickly buried the aircraft’s nose in the dirt to keep it from tipping over, and the SEALs clambered out into an outer courtyard.
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我甚至怀疑他们能够得到航空电子设备，因为就我所看的消息，他们花了很多时间去破坏直升机，甚至超过他们寻找目标（这里的他们是指美国海军陆战队）

[–]recycle_bin 1 point 3 days ago
The skin likely had the latest stealthy paint in the US arsenal since this was a very new and still classified helicopter. Paint chips are probably the most important piece of the helicopter to China since it could advance their stealth program and perhaps lead to developing countermeasures to detect US stealth planes. The stealthy shape of the helicopter could be recreated in house in little time, but the R&D behind the paint could bring their stealth forward a decade or more from where they are today.
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表皮像是在美国军工里最新的隐性涂料，因为这是一个非常新，仍旧机密的直升机。对中国来说，隐形涂料的碎片是最重要的，因为这可以促进他们的隐形项目，可能发展对策来侦察美国的隐形飞机。直升机的形状可以在房子里用很少的时间来重新制造，但是涂料后面的R&D能够让他们的隐形技术提升十年或者更多。

[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago
i can literally guarantee that the helicopters did not have stealth paint. they flew into pakistan literally under the radar. they were entirely undetectable by radar to begin with.permalinkparent

我担保直升机并没有涂隐形涂料，他们在雷达下飞进了巴基斯坦，从一开始他们就不会被雷达发现。
[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago
radar literally does not detect anything below about 2-300 feet, even in flat terrain (which abottabad is not)
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雷达并不能侦察在200-300米下的低空，甚至在平坦的地形。

D,评论
haphapablap 11 points 3 days ago
(China Gives Pakistan 50 Fighter Jets). What a dishonest title. From the article "China and Pakistan have jointly produced the JF-17 aircraft" JOINTLY PRODUCING is not one side GIVING something to another.

这标题太假了，从“中国和巴基斯坦联合生产枭龙战机”的标题，联合生产的意思不是一方给一方。

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[–]Vnotforvendetta 5 points 3 days ago
it is when china is paying for/manufacturing these particular 50 fighters
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这是中国额外为这50架飞机支付的。

[–]n99bJedi 13 points 3 days ago
Pakistan didn't paid for it, China paid for them. and they are under Pak control... so yes, that would conclude to the title "China gives Pak 50 Fighter Jets". China's technology is far superior than Pak (if that even exists on a global level).
This can be easily explained by this analogy -
Tom and Dick jointly made cookies. Tom bought the dough, the sugar, the syrup, the chips the bowls, template cutters etc. He then also brought his mommas secret recipe that is known to only his family, to his backyard. Only a few other people in this world can make those special cookies like his mothers favorite cookies. Dick on the other hand, came. Tom then went ahead and followed the recipe. Tom and Dick both 'made' cookies, and then Tom gave them to Dick to take them home.
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巴基斯坦并不付钱，付钱的是中国。他们在巴基斯坦的控制下。所以标题应该是“中国给巴基斯坦50架飞机”。中国的技术远超巴基斯坦。
下面的分析很容易解释：
汤和迪克一起做饼干，汤买了生面团，白糖，糖浆，炸土豆条，碗，做蛋糕的模板等等，然后他带来了他妈妈的独家秘方，这个秘方只有他们家知道。在这个世界上只有很少的一些人才能做这种特别的饼干像他妈妈做的那样美味。另一方面，迪克来了，汤开始跟着秘方做。汤和迪克“一起”做了饼干，然后汤把这些饼干给了迪克，让他带回家。

[–]IbidtheWriter 10 points 3 days ago
Dick on the other hand, came.
Talk about current international relations or make easy penis jokes? I've made my decision.permalink parent
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谈谈目前的国际关系，或者弄些下流的笑话？我已经做了决定。

[–]iconoclaus 4 points 3 days ago
They didn't jointly make jack. Try finding out how many of the test flights were conducted in Pakistan or which parts were designed by Pakistani engineers. Nada. The same as its missiles which all get inducted after an amazing single test flight.
'Jointly Produced' is just to give the Pak military some honor and dignity to show its citizens.
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他们并没有一起生产战斗机。试下找出有多少飞行测试是在巴基斯坦进行的，或者说哪部分的设计是由巴基斯坦的工程师做的。就像一些导弹获得指引在一次令人惊讶的单人飞行测试中。“联合生产”只是给巴基斯坦军队一些荣誉和给他们的国民一些尊严。
[–]agent0007 6 points 3 days ago
Can someone introduce Canada to China, we are spending 16-19 billion on ours.
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有谁帮加拿大介绍给中国，我们花了160到190亿加元用于军事。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]tinfoil_hat_troll 7 points 3 days ago
F-35s > JF-17 Thunder. Although receiving free jets never hurts...
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F-35好于枭龙，虽然获得了一些免费的战机却无关痛痒。

[–]constantly_drunk 7 points 3 days ago
Our F-22s can take out multi-role planes pretty easily.
But saying an F-35 is > JF-17 is moot since the F-35 doesn't even exist in service yet. It's not going to until, what, 2015? 2016? Even then - who knows how many we can afford; they're supposed to be > $130 million each.permalinkparent

我们的F-22可以非常轻松的扮演多种角色的战机。
但是如果说F-35好于枭龙是没有实际意义的因为F-35现在还没有服役。这里将不会有“为止”，什么，2015？2016？谁知道有多少我们能买的起？他们的单价应该超过1.3亿美元一架。
[–]edenite 3 points 3 days ago
Doubt the price tag will be an issue, the F22 costs roughly 150 million each, with the USAF number about 381.
Sourcepermalinkparent[–]constantly_drunk 4 points 3 days ago
The cost isn't as much as the F22, true, but the maintenance is expected to be even higher, which is simply astounding. The pentagon's preliminary figures (without any fuckups like the F22 not being able to fly through the rain) estimate it to be $1 trillion over it's lifespan.
Which - coupled with the Navy thinking the F-35B will cost 30-40% more than the F18 - means it's just stupid expensive. Tack on the development cost onto that, and it balloons to crazy-ville levels.
But yeah - the F22 is pretty dumb for cost. Most of that is reskinning the plane everytime it flies through a patch of damp air. Brilliant piece of engineering, just holy-shit-balls expensive.Source 1Source 2permalinkparent

F35的花费没有F22那么多，这是真的，但是维护费可能会更高，这非常令人震惊。五角大楼初步估计（没有任何像F22那样不能在雨中飞的失误的话）需要一万亿在预期使用期限内。
再加上海军认为F-35B将要花费超过F18百分之30-40的费用，这意味着贵的简直愚蠢。算上开发的承办，这简直飙升到了一个疯狂的水平。
但是，F22的钱花的太愚蠢了。每次飞过潮湿的空气，大部分的F22都需要重新休检。
I still don't really understand why the US took the Pakistani side over India after the end of the Cold War.
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我仍然不理解为什么在冷战以后，美国从巴基斯坦转向印度

[–]lisasgreat 1 point 3 days ago
"I still don't really understand why the US took the Pakistani side over India after the end of the Cold War."
Are you kidding? Supporting India will work against the USA in the long term. Why not keep two poor countries fighting and ensure your long term economic success?
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“我仍然不理解为什么在冷战以后，美国从巴基斯坦转向印度。”
你是在开玩笑吗？支持印度将会对美国长时间不利。
为什么不让这两个穷国互相打仗，来保证你们长期的经济繁荣？

[–]Kruse 7 points 3 days ago
A little "thank you" gift from the Chinese for letting them see the stealth helicopter wreckage before it's given back to the U.S.
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这只是感谢巴基斯坦在归还直升机残骸给美国之前给中国看一眼的礼物。

[–]Frankocean2 2 points 3 days ago
Well, it seems inevitable that a new cold war is going to start...anyone have a catchy name for it?.
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看来新冷战将要不可避免的开始••••谁来给新冷战起一个容易记住的名字？
[–]richmomz 2 points 3 days ago
CW2: The Search for More Oil
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第二次冷战：寻找更多的石油

[–]tokenpervert 5 points 3 days ago
Dude, F-22 has tons of software written in C++. C++ today is a different beast than in the 1980s.
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伙计，大量F22的软件是用C++来写的，今天的C++跟八十年代的决然不同。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：koushui

[–]RabidRaccoon 2 points 3 days ago*
I once worked on a big C++ system. Someone joked that the NULL pointer exception handler should prompt the user for the value the NULL pointer should have had.
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我曾经从事于一个很大的C++系统。某人开玩笑说空指针异常处理程序应该提示用户：空指针应该有价值。
[–]Notorious1994 3 points 3 days ago
China: simplist planes ever. Press this to go up, press this to turn right, press this to turn left
Pakistan: how do we go down
India: we'll take care of it
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中国：这是有史以来最简单的飞机，按这个起飞，按这个转右，按这个转左。
巴基斯坦：我们怎么下落
印度：我们会照顾你的。

[–]runfromtheraptor 1 point 3 days ago
i can see it now... "50 fighter jets spontaneously combust on a pakistan air base in the middle of the night, chaos ensues... pakistan blames america"
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在半夜，50架飞机不由自主的在巴基斯坦空军基地燃烧，接着混乱。。。巴基斯坦谴责美国。

[–]314R8 1 point 3 days ago
.. or / and India
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。。。或者/和印度

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[–]lmaoreddit 3 points 3 days ago
new cold war coming?
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新冷战来了？

[–]Kruse 1 point 3 days ago
It's already here.
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已经存在了。

没见到讨论啊

不知道怎么的刚才帖子发表有问题审核!

有些评论还是蛮幽默的。
比如发财的起飞降落的笑话——不考虑立场问题的话:D

很理性，评论的不错

看评论还以为是印度网友在评论呢

jainibunan 发表于 2011-5-25 00:55

哈哈，笑死了，一帮历史小白在网上瞎嚷嚷，真TM理性

真不错，他们的讨论气氛真好。

天高任鸿飞发表于 2011-5-25 01:06
不能指望他们对我们的历史有多了解啊。

龙腾很不错喔

欢乐多发表于 2011-5-25 01:08

那我们也可以完全无视他们怎么说

看了以后就知道教育多么的重要。。。
现在的美国人，还认为ww是tg的邻国。。
他们不知道常凯申比老毛更加独裁么。。

这算不错了，是MD的军网吧？如果是普通的大众网络，那才叫让你大开眼界，有一次我看见有个MD的网民说，东京在中国，下面有人反驳他，东京不在中国，汉城才是中国的……

[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago
radar literally does not detect anything below about 2-300 feet, even in flat terrain (which abottabad is not)
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雷达并不能侦察在200-300米下的低空，甚至在平坦的地形。

feet是英尺吧。。。这个简单的错误也能犯。。感觉翻译会错误很多 (300 feet = 91.44 meters 200 feet = 60.96 meters)

不过还是要感谢译者。。我肯定是不会花那么长时间翻译这个的。。

[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago
radar literally does not detect anything below about 2-300 feet, even in flat terrain (which abottabad is not)
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雷达并不能侦察在200-300米下的低空，甚至在平坦的地形。

feet是英尺吧。。。这个简单的错误也能犯。。感觉翻译会错误很多 (300 feet = 91.44 meters 200 feet = 60.96 meters)

不过还是要感谢译者。。我肯定是不会花那么长时间翻译这个的。。

MD的同志？

啊三意淫比棒子还厉害。

xuxiao999 发表于 2011-5-24 23:14

补充一下这个没译全，MD的JY啊
[–]Aitioma 1 point 16 minutes ago
Reminder that America is, too.
Reminder that Russia is, too.
Reminder that all powerful countries are and that it's usually the reason for their power to begin with.
Reminder that China is overall less oppressive than America.
提醒你美国也一样。
提醒你俄罗斯也一样。
提醒你所有的强国都是一样的，这就是他们力量来源。
提醒你中国的专制比美国还差一点

“对于台湾，日本，韩国，菲律宾怎么样？中国怎么和它们都有矛盾？”

嘿，美国人是真傻还是假傻啊，MD少来亚洲掺和，亚洲就和谐多了....

中国：这是有史以来最简单的飞机，按这个起飞，按这个转右，按这个转左。
巴基斯坦：我们怎么下落
印度：我们会照顾你的。

-------------------------------------------这个笑话不错

题目上是“袅”龙？哥哥你错了。

我们对那倒霉直升机尾巴不感兴趣!

输送上几个人给他们科普下呗，像当年PU大科普WW一样，看他们的言论，不是很困难！

人家心态不错啦，比毛子好得多

可以看出这些愚蠢傲慢的白种猪多么想当然的心态，被洗脑的彻底还狂妄的认为自己了解知道全世界。

jainibunan 发表于 2011-5-25 00:55
很理性？我咋觉得美国的老百姓快与世界隔离了？