超级军网日本同意交付苍龙级机密资料，配合澳洲潜艇案评估作业
来源：百度文库 编辑：超级军网 时间：2024/04/30 04:12:05
防卫省同意配合竞澳洲潜艇标作业，提供苍龙级机密资料给澳洲
http://www.reuters.com/article/2 ... USL4N0XX3IF20150506
Industries | Wed May 6, 2015 10:50am EDT
RPT-Japan to hand over data ahead of Australia submarine bid-sources
By Tim Kelly and Nobuhiro Kubo
May 6 (Reuters) - Japan will agree this month to give Australia classified submarine data, an unprecedented step signalling Tokyo's intent to join competitive bidding to sell Canberra a fleet of stealth subs, said two Japanese officials familiar with the plan.
德国TKMS与法国DCNS集团都是自身对外交涉，而日本方面则是防卫省出面代表日本参与澳洲潜艇竞标（比较类似美国FMS军售管道由军方出面主持、再把合同给自家厂商执行的模式）
The "competitive assessment" will see Germany's ThyssenKrupp and France's state-controlled naval contractor DCNS separately competing with a Japanese **-led bid for such contractors as Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
Japan had been the front runner in the planned sale of around 12 vessels, for as much as $40 billion, to replace Australia's ageing Collins class submarines, sources have said, until Prime Minister Tony Abbott opened up the bidding under pressure from opposition and ruling ** lawmakers.
The prospect of an open bid against other countries, in turn, made Japanese defence officials uneasy in a country where post-war pacifism remains strong.
Competing for arms exports could help opponents of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe paint him as a militarist, as he prepares to present unpopular legislation to parliament later this month that would enhance Japan's defence capabilites.
日本防卫省同意移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲，使澳洲能进行评估，这是日本第一次将这种等级的资料转给美国以外的国家。
But the Defense Ministry agreed to Japan's first disclosure of such classified technical data to a foreign military other than that of ally the United States, because Australia needs it to make a decision on the submarine's technical capability, the officials said.
Australia wants Japan involved in the process, because it is interested in Tokyo's 4,000-tonne Soryu class sub and its lithium-ion battery propulsion system. The German and French makers offer 2,000-tonne vessels.
澳洲国防部长凯文.安德鲁（Kevin Andrews）在周三（5月6日）致电日本防卫大臣中谷原（Gen Nakatani）,要求日本对澳洲潜艇案提供协助，敦促日本参与竞标程序。防卫省答应在5月内移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲
Australian Minister for Defence Kevin Andrews on Wednesday telephoned his Japanese counterpart Gen Nakatani, asking for help with the submarine programme and urging Japan to participate in the bidding, the sources said.
"The National Security Council will approve the release (of the data) in May," one source said.
防卫省发言人Hirofumi Takeda拒绝透露将移交哪些机密参数给澳洲，只表示东京当局正讨论如何协助澳洲。
Japanese Defence Ministry spokesman Hirofumi Takeda declined to provide details on the plan, but said: "The relevant ministries in Tokyo are discussing how we can help Australia."
The sources did not say what technical data would be handed over to Canberra, but noted that the exchange comes ahead of a planned visit to Tokyo by Abbott around July for talks with Abe.
A deal to supply a variant of the Soryu would give Japan its first major overseas deals after Abe eased curbs on arms exports last year that had isolated defence contractors for seven decades.
Abbott, who has described Japan as his country's "closest friend in Asia," is eager to deepen security ties, a strategy mirrored in Tokyo as the two key U.S. allies respond to Washington's desire for them to take a bigger security role in Asia as China's military might grows.
先前路透社的消息指出，美国大力支持澳洲与日本的潜舰合作。日本建造潜舰，舰上安装美制作战系统、侦测系统和武器系统。
Eager for that deeper cooperation, the U.S. is backing the Japanese built submarine packed with American surveillance, radar and weapons equipment, sources familiar with Washington's thinking have told Reuters.
在澳洲潜艇案的竞标程序里，将花费10个月评估，每个竞争者（包括法国DCNS、德国TKMS、日本）获得600万澳币资助来完成提案。竞标程序的一项测试评比作业要求厂商提供潜艇机密参数。
Australia's assessment will look at capability, cost, schedule and Australian industry involvement, with each bidder getting around $6 million to prepare its proposal. One of the tests will be the ability to use and disclose technical data.
The process will take at least 10 months, after which the defence ministry will make recommendations for the ** to consider. (Additional reporting by Matt Siegel in SYDNEY; Editing by William Mallard and Mike Collett-White)防卫省同意配合竞澳洲潜艇标作业，提供苍龙级机密资料给澳洲
http://www.reuters.com/article/2 ... USL4N0XX3IF20150506
Industries | Wed May 6, 2015 10:50am EDT
RPT-Japan to hand over data ahead of Australia submarine bid-sources
By Tim Kelly and Nobuhiro Kubo
May 6 (Reuters) - Japan will agree this month to give Australia classified submarine data, an unprecedented step signalling Tokyo's intent to join competitive bidding to sell Canberra a fleet of stealth subs, said two Japanese officials familiar with the plan.
德国TKMS与法国DCNS集团都是自身对外交涉，而日本方面则是防卫省出面代表日本参与澳洲潜艇竞标（比较类似美国FMS军售管道由军方出面主持、再把合同给自家厂商执行的模式）
The "competitive assessment" will see Germany's ThyssenKrupp and France's state-controlled naval contractor DCNS separately competing with a Japanese **-led bid for such contractors as Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
Japan had been the front runner in the planned sale of around 12 vessels, for as much as $40 billion, to replace Australia's ageing Collins class submarines, sources have said, until Prime Minister Tony Abbott opened up the bidding under pressure from opposition and ruling ** lawmakers.
The prospect of an open bid against other countries, in turn, made Japanese defence officials uneasy in a country where post-war pacifism remains strong.
Competing for arms exports could help opponents of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe paint him as a militarist, as he prepares to present unpopular legislation to parliament later this month that would enhance Japan's defence capabilites.
日本防卫省同意移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲，使澳洲能进行评估，这是日本第一次将这种等级的资料转给美国以外的国家。
But the Defense Ministry agreed to Japan's first disclosure of such classified technical data to a foreign military other than that of ally the United States, because Australia needs it to make a decision on the submarine's technical capability, the officials said.
Australia wants Japan involved in the process, because it is interested in Tokyo's 4,000-tonne Soryu class sub and its lithium-ion battery propulsion system. The German and French makers offer 2,000-tonne vessels.
澳洲国防部长凯文.安德鲁（Kevin Andrews）在周三（5月6日）致电日本防卫大臣中谷原（Gen Nakatani）,要求日本对澳洲潜艇案提供协助，敦促日本参与竞标程序。防卫省答应在5月内移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲
Australian Minister for Defence Kevin Andrews on Wednesday telephoned his Japanese counterpart Gen Nakatani, asking for help with the submarine programme and urging Japan to participate in the bidding, the sources said.
"The National Security Council will approve the release (of the data) in May," one source said.
防卫省发言人Hirofumi Takeda拒绝透露将移交哪些机密参数给澳洲，只表示东京当局正讨论如何协助澳洲。
Japanese Defence Ministry spokesman Hirofumi Takeda declined to provide details on the plan, but said: "The relevant ministries in Tokyo are discussing how we can help Australia."
The sources did not say what technical data would be handed over to Canberra, but noted that the exchange comes ahead of a planned visit to Tokyo by Abbott around July for talks with Abe.
A deal to supply a variant of the Soryu would give Japan its first major overseas deals after Abe eased curbs on arms exports last year that had isolated defence contractors for seven decades.
Abbott, who has described Japan as his country's "closest friend in Asia," is eager to deepen security ties, a strategy mirrored in Tokyo as the two key U.S. allies respond to Washington's desire for them to take a bigger security role in Asia as China's military might grows.
先前路透社的消息指出，美国大力支持澳洲与日本的潜舰合作。日本建造潜舰，舰上安装美制作战系统、侦测系统和武器系统。
Eager for that deeper cooperation, the U.S. is backing the Japanese built submarine packed with American surveillance, radar and weapons equipment, sources familiar with Washington's thinking have told Reuters.
在澳洲潜艇案的竞标程序里，将花费10个月评估，每个竞争者（包括法国DCNS、德国TKMS、日本）获得600万澳币资助来完成提案。竞标程序的一项测试评比作业要求厂商提供潜艇机密参数。
Australia's assessment will look at capability, cost, schedule and Australian industry involvement, with each bidder getting around $6 million to prepare its proposal. One of the tests will be the ability to use and disclose technical data.
The process will take at least 10 months, after which the defence ministry will make recommendations for the ** to consider. (Additional reporting by Matt Siegel in SYDNEY; Editing by William Mallard and Mike Collett-White)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2 ... USL4N0XX3IF20150506
Industries | Wed May 6, 2015 10:50am EDT
RPT-Japan to hand over data ahead of Australia submarine bid-sources
By Tim Kelly and Nobuhiro Kubo
May 6 (Reuters) - Japan will agree this month to give Australia classified submarine data, an unprecedented step signalling Tokyo's intent to join competitive bidding to sell Canberra a fleet of stealth subs, said two Japanese officials familiar with the plan.
德国TKMS与法国DCNS集团都是自身对外交涉，而日本方面则是防卫省出面代表日本参与澳洲潜艇竞标（比较类似美国FMS军售管道由军方出面主持、再把合同给自家厂商执行的模式）
The "competitive assessment" will see Germany's ThyssenKrupp and France's state-controlled naval contractor DCNS separately competing with a Japanese **-led bid for such contractors as Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
Japan had been the front runner in the planned sale of around 12 vessels, for as much as $40 billion, to replace Australia's ageing Collins class submarines, sources have said, until Prime Minister Tony Abbott opened up the bidding under pressure from opposition and ruling ** lawmakers.
The prospect of an open bid against other countries, in turn, made Japanese defence officials uneasy in a country where post-war pacifism remains strong.
Competing for arms exports could help opponents of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe paint him as a militarist, as he prepares to present unpopular legislation to parliament later this month that would enhance Japan's defence capabilites.
日本防卫省同意移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲，使澳洲能进行评估，这是日本第一次将这种等级的资料转给美国以外的国家。
But the Defense Ministry agreed to Japan's first disclosure of such classified technical data to a foreign military other than that of ally the United States, because Australia needs it to make a decision on the submarine's technical capability, the officials said.
Australia wants Japan involved in the process, because it is interested in Tokyo's 4,000-tonne Soryu class sub and its lithium-ion battery propulsion system. The German and French makers offer 2,000-tonne vessels.
澳洲国防部长凯文.安德鲁（Kevin Andrews）在周三（5月6日）致电日本防卫大臣中谷原（Gen Nakatani）,要求日本对澳洲潜艇案提供协助，敦促日本参与竞标程序。防卫省答应在5月内移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲
Australian Minister for Defence Kevin Andrews on Wednesday telephoned his Japanese counterpart Gen Nakatani, asking for help with the submarine programme and urging Japan to participate in the bidding, the sources said.
"The National Security Council will approve the release (of the data) in May," one source said.
防卫省发言人Hirofumi Takeda拒绝透露将移交哪些机密参数给澳洲，只表示东京当局正讨论如何协助澳洲。
Japanese Defence Ministry spokesman Hirofumi Takeda declined to provide details on the plan, but said: "The relevant ministries in Tokyo are discussing how we can help Australia."
The sources did not say what technical data would be handed over to Canberra, but noted that the exchange comes ahead of a planned visit to Tokyo by Abbott around July for talks with Abe.
A deal to supply a variant of the Soryu would give Japan its first major overseas deals after Abe eased curbs on arms exports last year that had isolated defence contractors for seven decades.
Abbott, who has described Japan as his country's "closest friend in Asia," is eager to deepen security ties, a strategy mirrored in Tokyo as the two key U.S. allies respond to Washington's desire for them to take a bigger security role in Asia as China's military might grows.
先前路透社的消息指出，美国大力支持澳洲与日本的潜舰合作。日本建造潜舰，舰上安装美制作战系统、侦测系统和武器系统。
Eager for that deeper cooperation, the U.S. is backing the Japanese built submarine packed with American surveillance, radar and weapons equipment, sources familiar with Washington's thinking have told Reuters.
在澳洲潜艇案的竞标程序里，将花费10个月评估，每个竞争者（包括法国DCNS、德国TKMS、日本）获得600万澳币资助来完成提案。竞标程序的一项测试评比作业要求厂商提供潜艇机密参数。
Australia's assessment will look at capability, cost, schedule and Australian industry involvement, with each bidder getting around $6 million to prepare its proposal. One of the tests will be the ability to use and disclose technical data.
The process will take at least 10 months, after which the defence ministry will make recommendations for the ** to consider. (Additional reporting by Matt Siegel in SYDNEY; Editing by William Mallard and Mike Collett-White)防卫省同意配合竞澳洲潜艇标作业，提供苍龙级机密资料给澳洲
http://www.reuters.com/article/2 ... USL4N0XX3IF20150506
Industries | Wed May 6, 2015 10:50am EDT
RPT-Japan to hand over data ahead of Australia submarine bid-sources
By Tim Kelly and Nobuhiro Kubo
May 6 (Reuters) - Japan will agree this month to give Australia classified submarine data, an unprecedented step signalling Tokyo's intent to join competitive bidding to sell Canberra a fleet of stealth subs, said two Japanese officials familiar with the plan.
德国TKMS与法国DCNS集团都是自身对外交涉，而日本方面则是防卫省出面代表日本参与澳洲潜艇竞标（比较类似美国FMS军售管道由军方出面主持、再把合同给自家厂商执行的模式）
The "competitive assessment" will see Germany's ThyssenKrupp and France's state-controlled naval contractor DCNS separately competing with a Japanese **-led bid for such contractors as Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
Japan had been the front runner in the planned sale of around 12 vessels, for as much as $40 billion, to replace Australia's ageing Collins class submarines, sources have said, until Prime Minister Tony Abbott opened up the bidding under pressure from opposition and ruling ** lawmakers.
The prospect of an open bid against other countries, in turn, made Japanese defence officials uneasy in a country where post-war pacifism remains strong.
Competing for arms exports could help opponents of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe paint him as a militarist, as he prepares to present unpopular legislation to parliament later this month that would enhance Japan's defence capabilites.
日本防卫省同意移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲，使澳洲能进行评估，这是日本第一次将这种等级的资料转给美国以外的国家。
But the Defense Ministry agreed to Japan's first disclosure of such classified technical data to a foreign military other than that of ally the United States, because Australia needs it to make a decision on the submarine's technical capability, the officials said.
Australia wants Japan involved in the process, because it is interested in Tokyo's 4,000-tonne Soryu class sub and its lithium-ion battery propulsion system. The German and French makers offer 2,000-tonne vessels.
澳洲国防部长凯文.安德鲁（Kevin Andrews）在周三（5月6日）致电日本防卫大臣中谷原（Gen Nakatani）,要求日本对澳洲潜艇案提供协助，敦促日本参与竞标程序。防卫省答应在5月内移交苍龙级的机密参数给澳洲
Australian Minister for Defence Kevin Andrews on Wednesday telephoned his Japanese counterpart Gen Nakatani, asking for help with the submarine programme and urging Japan to participate in the bidding, the sources said.
"The National Security Council will approve the release (of the data) in May," one source said.
防卫省发言人Hirofumi Takeda拒绝透露将移交哪些机密参数给澳洲，只表示东京当局正讨论如何协助澳洲。
Japanese Defence Ministry spokesman Hirofumi Takeda declined to provide details on the plan, but said: "The relevant ministries in Tokyo are discussing how we can help Australia."
The sources did not say what technical data would be handed over to Canberra, but noted that the exchange comes ahead of a planned visit to Tokyo by Abbott around July for talks with Abe.
A deal to supply a variant of the Soryu would give Japan its first major overseas deals after Abe eased curbs on arms exports last year that had isolated defence contractors for seven decades.
Abbott, who has described Japan as his country's "closest friend in Asia," is eager to deepen security ties, a strategy mirrored in Tokyo as the two key U.S. allies respond to Washington's desire for them to take a bigger security role in Asia as China's military might grows.
先前路透社的消息指出，美国大力支持澳洲与日本的潜舰合作。日本建造潜舰，舰上安装美制作战系统、侦测系统和武器系统。
Eager for that deeper cooperation, the U.S. is backing the Japanese built submarine packed with American surveillance, radar and weapons equipment, sources familiar with Washington's thinking have told Reuters.
在澳洲潜艇案的竞标程序里，将花费10个月评估，每个竞争者（包括法国DCNS、德国TKMS、日本）获得600万澳币资助来完成提案。竞标程序的一项测试评比作业要求厂商提供潜艇机密参数。
Australia's assessment will look at capability, cost, schedule and Australian industry involvement, with each bidder getting around $6 million to prepare its proposal. One of the tests will be the ability to use and disclose technical data.
The process will take at least 10 months, after which the defence ministry will make recommendations for the ** to consider. (Additional reporting by Matt Siegel in SYDNEY; Editing by William Mallard and Mike Collett-White)
喝汤吃肉，日本小步快跑啊米帝。
资料转眼就进了某大国研究所了。
小日常规艇技术的确不赖，想法子弄点啥回来参照参照！
小柜子是越走越远了总参没想法我是不信的
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以买了啊。
爱海洋海军 发表于 2015-5-7 09:34
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以买了啊。
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以买了啊。
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
贵族メ少爺 发表于 2015-5-7 09:55
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
那得看事实发展，我可不想被预测打脸。
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
那得看事实发展，我可不想被预测打脸。
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
我记得之前有分析说澳大利亚的造船厂是想自己造的（毕竟要养工人）
我记得之前有分析说澳大利亚的造船厂是想自己造的（毕竟要养工人）
澳大利亚先研究好，然后图纸转TG，由TG外包制造，恩，价格肯定比小日本便宜。
这么说“苍龙”的各项技术指标有可能会被“泄”了。无论如何，都是一件好事。
美英澳等国的军工利益集团才是真的腐败透了，一个SSK搞的比中俄等国的SSN还贵。阿三在他们面前都不算个事
水声换能器 发表于 2015-5-7 10:28
我记得之前有分析说澳大利亚的造船厂是想自己造的（毕竟要养工人）
没这个本事，柯林斯一直问题不断， 等修吧的差不多了，服役周期也过了一半了，澳大利亚还早着呢
我记得之前有分析说澳大利亚的造船厂是想自己造的（毕竟要养工人）
没这个本事，柯林斯一直问题不断， 等修吧的差不多了，服役周期也过了一半了，澳大利亚还早着呢
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 10:46
这么说“苍龙”的各项技术指标有可能会被“泄”了。无论如何，都是一件好事。
澳大利亚会蠢到公布各项数据么？ 这是打鬼子还是打自己？ 日本鬼子心性险恶、小家子气就在这里，又想赚钱又不想出售技术，他以为他可以学习美国借出售军备挟制澳大利亚，殊不知澳大利益所处国际环境跟比他好多了，选择也多的多。 这就是日本人，处处跟别人学，却往往学得不像
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 10:46
这么说“苍龙”的各项技术指标有可能会被“泄”了。无论如何，都是一件好事。
澳大利亚会蠢到公布各项数据么？ 这是打鬼子还是打自己？ 日本鬼子心性险恶、小家子气就在这里，又想赚钱又不想出售技术，他以为他可以学习美国借出售军备挟制澳大利亚，殊不知澳大利益所处国际环境跟比他好多了，选择也多的多。 这就是日本人，处处跟别人学，却往往学得不像
响马 发表于 2015-5-7 11:42
澳大利亚会蠢到公布各项数据么？ 这是打鬼子还是打自己？
有些指标可能会保密，但某些指标可能会透露出来。因为“民主国家”有一个“优点”，就是办事都要被监督。这么大一笔买卖，如果“货”的性能没有部分公布或验证，是不太可能通过的。
当然，如果各方严守秘密，就难说了。
澳大利亚会蠢到公布各项数据么？ 这是打鬼子还是打自己？
有些指标可能会保密，但某些指标可能会透露出来。因为“民主国家”有一个“优点”，就是办事都要被监督。这么大一笔买卖，如果“货”的性能没有部分公布或验证，是不太可能通过的。
当然，如果各方严守秘密，就难说了。
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 11:51
有些指标可能会保密，但某些指标可能会透露出来。因为“民主国家”有一个“优点”，就是办事都要被监督。 ...
民主国家也不会蠢到公布事关国防安全的装备技术数据。 你见过哪个国家为什么监督公布过敏感数据？
有些指标可能会保密，但某些指标可能会透露出来。因为“民主国家”有一个“优点”，就是办事都要被监督。 ...
民主国家也不会蠢到公布事关国防安全的装备技术数据。 你见过哪个国家为什么监督公布过敏感数据？
响马 发表于 2015-5-7 11:53
民主国家也不会蠢到公布事关国防安全的装备技术数据。 你见过哪个国家为什么监督公布过敏感数据？
外贸的武器系统的技术参数总是可以被部分公布的，只是你不知道而已。
民主国家也不会蠢到公布事关国防安全的装备技术数据。 你见过哪个国家为什么监督公布过敏感数据？
外贸的武器系统的技术参数总是可以被部分公布的，只是你不知道而已。
原来拖着不肯提供，现在又提供，会不会这段时间花在改数据上了。
响马 发表于 2015-5-7 11:53
民主国家也不会蠢到公布事关国防安全的装备技术数据。 你见过哪个国家为什么监督公布过敏感数据？
如果“苍龙”成功卖给澳大利亚，你可以坐等澳洲媒体传出来“苍龙”的技术参数，当然不会是全部，敏感参数会被隐藏，但大概的技术参数还是会了解一些，我估计静音水平也会被以一个范围形式公布出来，比如100分贝以下这样的说法等等。
这在以往其他国家之间都是很正常的事情。但卖给澳洲的“苍龙”和鬼子自用的“苍龙”未必就是一样的。
响马 发表于 2015-5-7 11:53
民主国家也不会蠢到公布事关国防安全的装备技术数据。 你见过哪个国家为什么监督公布过敏感数据？
如果“苍龙”成功卖给澳大利亚，你可以坐等澳洲媒体传出来“苍龙”的技术参数，当然不会是全部，敏感参数会被隐藏，但大概的技术参数还是会了解一些，我估计静音水平也会被以一个范围形式公布出来，比如100分贝以下这样的说法等等。
这在以往其他国家之间都是很正常的事情。但卖给澳洲的“苍龙”和鬼子自用的“苍龙”未必就是一样的。
unnamed089 发表于 2015-5-7 12:01
原来拖着不肯提供，现在又提供，会不会这段时间花在改数据上了。
估计鬼子这段时间评估了把技术资料交给澳大利亚人后可能产生的风险。
但我感觉鬼子不会傻到卖和自卫队自己用的“苍龙”技术参数相同的潜艇，修改版的潜艇技术参数比自用的差几乎是肯定的。
原来拖着不肯提供，现在又提供，会不会这段时间花在改数据上了。
估计鬼子这段时间评估了把技术资料交给澳大利亚人后可能产生的风险。
但我感觉鬼子不会傻到卖和自卫队自己用的“苍龙”技术参数相同的潜艇，修改版的潜艇技术参数比自用的差几乎是肯定的。
如果“苍龙”成功卖给澳大利亚，你可以坐等澳洲媒体传出来“苍龙”的技术参数，当然不会是全部，敏感参 ...
苍龙是成品，如果要卖外贸版还要重新弄个型号
苍龙是成品，如果要卖外贸版还要重新弄个型号
水声换能器 发表于 2015-5-7 12:20
苍龙是成品，如果要卖外贸版还要重新弄个型号
部分设备、动力、声呐换个型号就行了，阉割版不是那么复杂吧？
苍龙是成品，如果要卖外贸版还要重新弄个型号
部分设备、动力、声呐换个型号就行了，阉割版不是那么复杂吧？
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 11:55
外贸的武器系统的技术参数总是可以被部分公布的，只是你不知道而已。
那么照你说的这个又有什么实际意义呢
外贸的武器系统的技术参数总是可以被部分公布的，只是你不知道而已。
那么照你说的这个又有什么实际意义呢
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 12:02
如果“苍龙”成功卖给澳大利亚，你可以坐等澳洲媒体传出来“苍龙”的技术参数，当然不会是全部，敏感参 ...
真能X 这些范范的所谓“数据” 还用等着澳大利亚去公布
你自己都说了一个了
如果“苍龙”成功卖给澳大利亚，你可以坐等澳洲媒体传出来“苍龙”的技术参数，当然不会是全部，敏感参 ...
真能X 这些范范的所谓“数据” 还用等着澳大利亚去公布
你自己都说了一个了响马 发表于 2015-5-7 12:29
那么照你说的这个又有什么实际意义呢
意义就在于“神话”的破灭。
即使不是真正的“苍龙”，但了解到其大概的技术水平，总比一点都不了解，威胁要小。
而且，我估计，澳大利亚人没那么傻，看到技术资料就完全相信，如果没有政治因素作用，澳大利亚人还会去对比验证，到时候澳大利亚人如何选择，买或不买都可以说明问题。
那么照你说的这个又有什么实际意义呢
意义就在于“神话”的破灭。
即使不是真正的“苍龙”，但了解到其大概的技术水平，总比一点都不了解，威胁要小。
而且，我估计，澳大利亚人没那么傻，看到技术资料就完全相信，如果没有政治因素作用，澳大利亚人还会去对比验证，到时候澳大利亚人如何选择，买或不买都可以说明问题。
响马 发表于 2015-5-7 12:34
真能X 这些范范的所谓“数据” 还用等着澳大利亚去公布 你自己都说了一个了
你可以等一等澳洲媒体，估计对“苍龙”感兴趣的绝不止兔子一家。
德国、法国、瑞典、荷兰等一系列能建造并出口常规潜艇的国家，以及世界上有购买常规潜艇计划的国家，都会关注这次澳大利亚人的决定。
真能X 这些范范的所谓“数据” 还用等着澳大利亚去公布 你自己都说了一个了
你可以等一等澳洲媒体，估计对“苍龙”感兴趣的绝不止兔子一家。
德国、法国、瑞典、荷兰等一系列能建造并出口常规潜艇的国家，以及世界上有购买常规潜艇计划的国家，都会关注这次澳大利亚人的决定。
响马 发表于 2015-5-7 12:34
真能X 这些范范的所谓“数据” 还用等着澳大利亚去公布 你自己都说了一个了
潜艇的静音水平，每降低10分贝，就是一大跨越。110分贝——120分贝是一个档次，100分贝——110分贝是一个档次，100分贝以下是一个档次。海洋背景噪声在90分贝以下，目前世界推测海狼级静音水平最高，为95分贝，接近海洋背景噪声。
所以我说比如100分贝以下，是估计“苍龙”最高（逆天）可能达到的静音水平，但实际可能性不大。
真能X 这些范范的所谓“数据” 还用等着澳大利亚去公布 你自己都说了一个了
潜艇的静音水平，每降低10分贝，就是一大跨越。110分贝——120分贝是一个档次，100分贝——110分贝是一个档次，100分贝以下是一个档次。海洋背景噪声在90分贝以下，目前世界推测海狼级静音水平最高，为95分贝，接近海洋背景噪声。
所以我说比如100分贝以下，是估计“苍龙”最高（逆天）可能达到的静音水平，但实际可能性不大。
霓虹也是蛮拼的
日本人能按期交货吗？日本人能做到一条龙服务吗？这些都是未知数，这可是日本战后第一次出口武器啊
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 12:07
估计鬼子这段时间评估了把技术资料交给澳大利亚人后可能产生的风险。
但我感觉鬼子不会傻到卖和自卫队 ...
不可能啊，除非是穷国买简化版，一般富国购买的武器性能都是超过原版的，美国卖的F15SG和F16EF，德国卖的豹2A7哪个不比原版好啊。
fengxiao761 发表于 2015-5-7 12:07
估计鬼子这段时间评估了把技术资料交给澳大利亚人后可能产生的风险。
但我感觉鬼子不会傻到卖和自卫队 ...
不可能啊，除非是穷国买简化版，一般富国购买的武器性能都是超过原版的，美国卖的F15SG和F16EF，德国卖的豹2A7哪个不比原版好啊。
爱小狼 发表于 2015-5-7 20:50
不可能啊，除非是穷国买简化版，一般富国购买的武器性能都是超过原版的，美国卖的F15SG和F16EF，德国卖 ...
有可能。不过，“苍龙”是日本仅有的几样可以拿出来作为威慑的装备了，如果卖出去的比自用的好，似乎有点冒险。
不可能啊，除非是穷国买简化版，一般富国购买的武器性能都是超过原版的，美国卖的F15SG和F16EF，德国卖 ...
有可能。不过，“苍龙”是日本仅有的几样可以拿出来作为威慑的装备了，如果卖出去的比自用的好，似乎有点冒险。
贵族メ少爺 发表于 2015-5-7 09:55
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
所谓机密参数是性能数据之类，只能作为竞标程序的参考。
而且先前竞标柯林斯的时代，澳洲就发现德国厂商给的续航跟充电时间等数据灌水。
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
所谓机密参数是性能数据之类，只能作为竞标程序的参考。
而且先前竞标柯林斯的时代，澳洲就发现德国厂商给的续航跟充电时间等数据灌水。
军事无国界 发表于 2015-5-7 20:02
日本人能按期交货吗？日本人能做到一条龙服务吗？这些都是未知数，这可是日本战后第一次出口武器啊
日本厂商供应自己潜艇本来就是一条龙，真正问题是如果不是日本自己人一条龙就搞定，才麻烦。
现在潜艇上的作战火控系统、指管通情、传感装置、武器系统肯定是澳洲集成美式装备，日本厂商很可能得澳洲合资成立公司；万一工党的政策占上风，潜艇平台还是要有澳洲船厂的份，管理计画更复杂更麻烦，日本刚刚开放出口的军工弱点在此。
日本人能按期交货吗？日本人能做到一条龙服务吗？这些都是未知数，这可是日本战后第一次出口武器啊
日本厂商供应自己潜艇本来就是一条龙，真正问题是如果不是日本自己人一条龙就搞定，才麻烦。
现在潜艇上的作战火控系统、指管通情、传感装置、武器系统肯定是澳洲集成美式装备，日本厂商很可能得澳洲合资成立公司；万一工党的政策占上风，潜艇平台还是要有澳洲船厂的份，管理计画更复杂更麻烦，日本刚刚开放出口的军工弱点在此。
unnamed089 发表于 2015-5-7 12:01
原来拖着不肯提供，现在又提供，会不会这段时间花在改数据上了。
那是安倍首相跟安倍任用的防卫省首长推著下面去做的。
日本海自潜艇部队规模够日本的潜艇厂商永续存活，垄断市场没有竞争者，日本厂商自己不会有动力去对外推销潜艇。
原来拖着不肯提供，现在又提供，会不会这段时间花在改数据上了。
那是安倍首相跟安倍任用的防卫省首长推著下面去做的。
日本海自潜艇部队规模够日本的潜艇厂商永续存活，垄断市场没有竞争者，日本厂商自己不会有动力去对外推销潜艇。
贵族メ少爺 发表于 2015-5-7 09:55
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
澳国还是老老实实卖他的铁矿石，剪他的羊毛，三流资本主义国家搞啥子军工，丫造的了么
澳大利亚研究之后，是不是可以取消合同自己造啊~
澳国还是老老实实卖他的铁矿石，剪他的羊毛，三流资本主义国家搞啥子军工，丫造的了么
看来铁定是要买日本的了，否则日本就是赔了夫人又折兵，按日本人穷于算计的行事作风一般不会这么干……
日韩山寨欧美卖给兔子，欧美研究兔子东西再卖给兔子，兔子山寨欧美的卖给全世界，大家都围绕这个圈在转。
日本厂商供应自己潜艇本来就是一条龙，真正问题是如果不是日本自己人一条龙就搞定，才麻烦。
现在潜艇 ...
我就是这个意思啊，日本在这方面毫无经验可言
现在潜艇 ...
我就是这个意思啊，日本在这方面毫无经验可言
工党是英联邦的最大敌人（手动斜眼