土鳖威胁球电

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/04/28 04:09:53


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/19/did-china-just-render-americas-1-trillion-stealth.aspx
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-320604-1-1.html

Did China Just Render America's $1 Trillion Stealth Fighter Program Obsolete?
中国致使美国一万亿美元打造的隐形飞机项目变成了废物?

In a 2013 RAND Corporation report, one of the nation's foremost military analysts, blasted the F-35 for being a fighter that "can't turn, can't climb, can't run." Proponents of the F-35 reply that because it's stealthy, it shouldn't have to do any of those things -- lobbing missiles at its foes from over the horizon, and long before they can even see it.
在兰德公司2013年的一份报告中,一个本国最重要的军事分析师抨击F35“机动差,爬升差,续航差”,而F35的支持者则回应说其能隐形,可以在敌人看见它之前就发射导弹。
Unfortunately, it turns out that the F-35 may not do the "invisibility" thing very well, either.
不幸的是,事实证明F35并不能很好的“隐形”。

Invisible becomes visible -- voila!
隐形变为不隐形——没有错!
As DefenseNews.com recently revealed, China has a new device that may be able to track Lockheed's F-35 fighter with "passive" radar detection technology. Dubbed the DWL002, China's equipment can apparently detect stealth aircraft at distances of up to 400 kilometers -- and 600 kilometers for larger "stealth" targets -- processing "pulse, frequency agility, pulse duration, tactical air navigation system, distance measuring equipment, jitter/stagger radar, and identification friend or foe" signals emitted by the otherwise stealthy aircraft to determine its location.
正如防务新闻网站最近所说,中国有了新设备,其可以用“被动”雷达探测技术跟踪洛克希德公司的F35战斗机,其被称之为DWL002,中国的这一设备似乎可以在400公里到600公里范围内探测到大型“隐形”目标——并处理“脉冲,频率捷变,脉冲宽度,战术空中导航系统,距离测量设备,抖动/交错雷达、敌我识别”根据隐形飞机发出的信号来确定它的位置。

To be clear, DWL002 is not an active radar system itself. As International Assessment and Strategy Center senior fellow Richard Fisher explains "Passive systems like these simply listen for any electronic emission," identifying an aircraft without having to ping it with an active radar transmitter. As such, whether or not the F-35 is itself invisible to "radar" may be a moot point.、
简单的说,DWL002本身不是主动雷达系统,国际评估和战略中心的高级研究员理查德 费舍尔说“这样的被动系统只是在监听任一电子发射信号,“期不用主动雷达发射机就可识别飞机。因此,F35是否本身对“雷达”隐身可能是一个有争议的问题。
China can "see" it anyway
总之,中国能发现它.

And so can Russia   
俄罗斯也能
This problem with the F-35's lack of invisibility, it turns out, is not limited to China. According to DN, both the Czechs and the Ukrainians have similar systems for passive intercept of electronic signals, capable of detecting stealth aircraft.
F35欠缺隐身能力,事实是这不仅限于中国,根据DN报告指出,捷克和乌克兰拥有同样可以被动拦截电子讯号的系统,同时具备发现隐身战机的能力。
Similarly, Aviation Week reported earlier this year that certain very high frequency (VHF) radar systems, such as Russia's P-14 Oborona VHF early warning system, and its 3D Nebo SVU active electronically scanned array (AESA), may also be capable of detecting the F-35. (A new Chinese naval radar system, Type 517M VHF, may be similarly effective against the F-35.)
同样的,航空周刊早前也指出如俄罗斯P14 Oborona甚高频率早期预警系统和其有源电子扫描阵,可能也具备发现F35的能力(中国海军新式517M型甚高频雷达,可能也具备相同的效能)

And of course, there is the Balkan War incident to keep in mind. On March 27, 1999, Serbian anti-aircraft forces used a 1960s vintage P-18 VHF acquisition radar system (working in conjunction with an SA-3 SAM system for proximity targeting) to detect and down a F-117 stealth fighter jet.
巴尔干半岛战争事故还记忆犹新,在1999年3月27日,塞尔维亚用60年代的P18甚高频搜索雷达配以防空武器(与萨姆3系统连接并接近目标)发现并击落了F117隐身战斗机
What this all means for Lockheed Martin
这对洛克希德马丁公司来说意味着什么

Now, experts differ on how effective these various aircraft detection systems will be against the F-35. For one thing, while passive detection systems can tell an opponent that there's an F-35 "out there," it still takes an active detection system to guide a missile to shoot it down. But if the critics are right, it could still undermine the aircraft's reputation for invisibility, and pose a significant threat to Lockheed Martin's business.
如今,专家们在这些种反隐身战机系统的性能如何上的意见分歧,首先,被动探测系统可以告诉敌人有一架F35“在那”,它仍然需要一个主动探测系统引导导弹击落它,但如果批评者是正确的,那么它仍然会破坏飞机的隐身的声誉,并对洛克希德·马丁公司的业务构成重大威胁。

It's been 13 years now since Lockheed Martin won the contract to build what was then known as the "joint strike fighter," beating out Boeing (NYSE: BA ) for that honor. Since then, Lockheed stock has risen an astonishing five times in value, from $35.29 (adjusted for dividends and stock splits) on Oct. 29, 2001, to more than $176 per share today. While many factors contributed to this outperformance, Lockheed's winning the F-35 franchise has certainly contributed mightily to the stock's success.
自从洛克希德·马丁公司光荣地击败了波音公司并赢得了建造当时被称为“联合攻击战斗机”的合同已经13年了,从那时起,洛克希德公司的股票惊人的上升了5倍,从2001年的10月29日的35.29美元(调整的股息和股票分拆)到今天的每股超过176美元。虽然许多因素导致了这种表现,但洛克希德公司的赢得了fF35系列无疑为股票的成功做出了巨大贡献。

After all, analysts estimate that over the program's estimate 60-year lifespan, the F-35 will bring Lockheed Martin as much as $1.1 trillion worth of high-margin revenues -- or more. At the 11.2% profit margin that Lockheed Martin earns at its Aeronautics division (thanks to S&P Capital IQ for the data), that works out to about $112 billion in profits the company could earn from this single product -- twice the market capitalization of the whole company.
终究,分析师估计,该项目有大约60年的寿命,F35将为洛克希德·马丁公司价值带来高达1.1万亿美元的高利润收入——甚至更多。洛克希德·马丁公司在其航空业务部门有着11.2%的利润率(感谢标普资本智商公司提供的数据),该公司从这个单一产品中可以赚约1120亿美元的利润,这是整个公司市值的两倍。
But if the F-35 comes up short in the "invisibility" department, that franchise could be in jeopardy.
但如果F35在隐身性能上有所不足,那么特许经营可能会变得岌岌可危。

The upshot for investors
对于投资者来说的要点
The thing about technology is that it's always changing. What was cutting edge tech in 2001 could be obsolete by 2021. If that happens, and if the F-35 is ultimately not built in the quantities originally anticipated (as was the case with Lockheed Martin's similarly high-tech F-22 Raptor fighter jet, you'll recall), then Lockheed Martin stock could be worth less than investors are counting on.
科技是不断变化的,2001年的前沿技术到2021年就可能被废弃了,如果F35的建造量不如预期(就像其F22猛禽战斗机那样),那么洛克希德马丁公司的股票可能就不会如投资者的预期的那样。


评论

Junk in junk out. The F-35 program has failed long before now.
垃圾中的战斗机,F35计划早就失败了。
"May", "apparently", and "could" aren't defining terms.
”也许“”似乎“还有“可能”并不是定义名次。
No, VHF radars and PD don't make stealth "obsolete". That's like saying
ASDIC and SONAR made submarines obsolete.
As an old F-117 driver once told me, "nobody ever got shot down by an early warning radar."
不,甚高频和PD雷达不会让隐形战机变成”废物“,这就如同说潜艇探索器和声呐让潜艇没用了一样。
正如一个老F117驾驶员告诉我的那样"没有人被早期预警雷达击落过"
If you want to believe this BS story, the writer will tell you another one.
如果你相信这篇洗脑文,那么作者还会给你另一篇的。
Showing the past history of our security measures with our Top Secret Technologies China develops these items from our companies. They only copy they don't develop.
看看过去我们最高机密技术的安全措施历史,中国从我们的公司拿走这些以发展这些项目。他们只山寨不研发。

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/19/did-china-just-render-americas-1-trillion-stealth.aspx
http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-320604-1-1.html

Did China Just Render America's $1 Trillion Stealth Fighter Program Obsolete?
中国致使美国一万亿美元打造的隐形飞机项目变成了废物?

In a 2013 RAND Corporation report, one of the nation's foremost military analysts, blasted the F-35 for being a fighter that "can't turn, can't climb, can't run." Proponents of the F-35 reply that because it's stealthy, it shouldn't have to do any of those things -- lobbing missiles at its foes from over the horizon, and long before they can even see it.
在兰德公司2013年的一份报告中,一个本国最重要的军事分析师抨击F35“机动差,爬升差,续航差”,而F35的支持者则回应说其能隐形,可以在敌人看见它之前就发射导弹。
Unfortunately, it turns out that the F-35 may not do the "invisibility" thing very well, either.
不幸的是,事实证明F35并不能很好的“隐形”。

Invisible becomes visible -- voila!
隐形变为不隐形——没有错!
As DefenseNews.com recently revealed, China has a new device that may be able to track Lockheed's F-35 fighter with "passive" radar detection technology. Dubbed the DWL002, China's equipment can apparently detect stealth aircraft at distances of up to 400 kilometers -- and 600 kilometers for larger "stealth" targets -- processing "pulse, frequency agility, pulse duration, tactical air navigation system, distance measuring equipment, jitter/stagger radar, and identification friend or foe" signals emitted by the otherwise stealthy aircraft to determine its location.
正如防务新闻网站最近所说,中国有了新设备,其可以用“被动”雷达探测技术跟踪洛克希德公司的F35战斗机,其被称之为DWL002,中国的这一设备似乎可以在400公里到600公里范围内探测到大型“隐形”目标——并处理“脉冲,频率捷变,脉冲宽度,战术空中导航系统,距离测量设备,抖动/交错雷达、敌我识别”根据隐形飞机发出的信号来确定它的位置。

To be clear, DWL002 is not an active radar system itself. As International Assessment and Strategy Center senior fellow Richard Fisher explains "Passive systems like these simply listen for any electronic emission," identifying an aircraft without having to ping it with an active radar transmitter. As such, whether or not the F-35 is itself invisible to "radar" may be a moot point.、
简单的说,DWL002本身不是主动雷达系统,国际评估和战略中心的高级研究员理查德 费舍尔说“这样的被动系统只是在监听任一电子发射信号,“期不用主动雷达发射机就可识别飞机。因此,F35是否本身对“雷达”隐身可能是一个有争议的问题。
China can "see" it anyway
总之,中国能发现它.

And so can Russia   
俄罗斯也能
This problem with the F-35's lack of invisibility, it turns out, is not limited to China. According to DN, both the Czechs and the Ukrainians have similar systems for passive intercept of electronic signals, capable of detecting stealth aircraft.
F35欠缺隐身能力,事实是这不仅限于中国,根据DN报告指出,捷克和乌克兰拥有同样可以被动拦截电子讯号的系统,同时具备发现隐身战机的能力。
Similarly, Aviation Week reported earlier this year that certain very high frequency (VHF) radar systems, such as Russia's P-14 Oborona VHF early warning system, and its 3D Nebo SVU active electronically scanned array (AESA), may also be capable of detecting the F-35. (A new Chinese naval radar system, Type 517M VHF, may be similarly effective against the F-35.)
同样的,航空周刊早前也指出如俄罗斯P14 Oborona甚高频率早期预警系统和其有源电子扫描阵,可能也具备发现F35的能力(中国海军新式517M型甚高频雷达,可能也具备相同的效能)

And of course, there is the Balkan War incident to keep in mind. On March 27, 1999, Serbian anti-aircraft forces used a 1960s vintage P-18 VHF acquisition radar system (working in conjunction with an SA-3 SAM system for proximity targeting) to detect and down a F-117 stealth fighter jet.
巴尔干半岛战争事故还记忆犹新,在1999年3月27日,塞尔维亚用60年代的P18甚高频搜索雷达配以防空武器(与萨姆3系统连接并接近目标)发现并击落了F117隐身战斗机
What this all means for Lockheed Martin
这对洛克希德马丁公司来说意味着什么

Now, experts differ on how effective these various aircraft detection systems will be against the F-35. For one thing, while passive detection systems can tell an opponent that there's an F-35 "out there," it still takes an active detection system to guide a missile to shoot it down. But if the critics are right, it could still undermine the aircraft's reputation for invisibility, and pose a significant threat to Lockheed Martin's business.
如今,专家们在这些种反隐身战机系统的性能如何上的意见分歧,首先,被动探测系统可以告诉敌人有一架F35“在那”,它仍然需要一个主动探测系统引导导弹击落它,但如果批评者是正确的,那么它仍然会破坏飞机的隐身的声誉,并对洛克希德·马丁公司的业务构成重大威胁。

It's been 13 years now since Lockheed Martin won the contract to build what was then known as the "joint strike fighter," beating out Boeing (NYSE: BA ) for that honor. Since then, Lockheed stock has risen an astonishing five times in value, from $35.29 (adjusted for dividends and stock splits) on Oct. 29, 2001, to more than $176 per share today. While many factors contributed to this outperformance, Lockheed's winning the F-35 franchise has certainly contributed mightily to the stock's success.
自从洛克希德·马丁公司光荣地击败了波音公司并赢得了建造当时被称为“联合攻击战斗机”的合同已经13年了,从那时起,洛克希德公司的股票惊人的上升了5倍,从2001年的10月29日的35.29美元(调整的股息和股票分拆)到今天的每股超过176美元。虽然许多因素导致了这种表现,但洛克希德公司的赢得了fF35系列无疑为股票的成功做出了巨大贡献。

After all, analysts estimate that over the program's estimate 60-year lifespan, the F-35 will bring Lockheed Martin as much as $1.1 trillion worth of high-margin revenues -- or more. At the 11.2% profit margin that Lockheed Martin earns at its Aeronautics division (thanks to S&P Capital IQ for the data), that works out to about $112 billion in profits the company could earn from this single product -- twice the market capitalization of the whole company.
终究,分析师估计,该项目有大约60年的寿命,F35将为洛克希德·马丁公司价值带来高达1.1万亿美元的高利润收入——甚至更多。洛克希德·马丁公司在其航空业务部门有着11.2%的利润率(感谢标普资本智商公司提供的数据),该公司从这个单一产品中可以赚约1120亿美元的利润,这是整个公司市值的两倍。
But if the F-35 comes up short in the "invisibility" department, that franchise could be in jeopardy.
但如果F35在隐身性能上有所不足,那么特许经营可能会变得岌岌可危。

The upshot for investors
对于投资者来说的要点
The thing about technology is that it's always changing. What was cutting edge tech in 2001 could be obsolete by 2021. If that happens, and if the F-35 is ultimately not built in the quantities originally anticipated (as was the case with Lockheed Martin's similarly high-tech F-22 Raptor fighter jet, you'll recall), then Lockheed Martin stock could be worth less than investors are counting on.
科技是不断变化的,2001年的前沿技术到2021年就可能被废弃了,如果F35的建造量不如预期(就像其F22猛禽战斗机那样),那么洛克希德马丁公司的股票可能就不会如投资者的预期的那样。


评论

Junk in junk out. The F-35 program has failed long before now.
垃圾中的战斗机,F35计划早就失败了。
"May", "apparently", and "could" aren't defining terms.
”也许“”似乎“还有“可能”并不是定义名次。
No, VHF radars and PD don't make stealth "obsolete". That's like saying
ASDIC and SONAR made submarines obsolete.
As an old F-117 driver once told me, "nobody ever got shot down by an early warning radar."
不,甚高频和PD雷达不会让隐形战机变成”废物“,这就如同说潜艇探索器和声呐让潜艇没用了一样。
正如一个老F117驾驶员告诉我的那样"没有人被早期预警雷达击落过"
If you want to believe this BS story, the writer will tell you another one.
如果你相信这篇洗脑文,那么作者还会给你另一篇的。
Showing the past history of our security measures with our Top Secret Technologies China develops these items from our companies. They only copy they don't develop.
看看过去我们最高机密技术的安全措施历史,中国从我们的公司拿走这些以发展这些项目。他们只山寨不研发。
老掉牙的vhf雷达能探测隐身机?那歼20更该害怕
道高一尺,魔高一丈。
老掉牙的vhf雷达能探测隐身机?那歼20更该害怕
J20没隐身也可一战,F35未必干得过三代朳
bhshen 发表于 2014-10-20 21:35
J20没隐身也可一战,F35未必干得过三代朳
那粽子岂不是更多余了?
bhshen 发表于 2014-10-20 21:35
J20没隐身也可一战,F35未必干得过三代朳
J20靠什么,靠脑补的机动性
打掉系统支撑,肥电就是裸泳了。娘娘还可一战
路漫漫 发表于 2014-10-20 21:49
打掉系统支撑,肥电就是裸泳了。娘娘还可一战
MD比的就是系统完善,肥电只是系统的一个节点
不管是球电还是F22只要是个飞机都会被威胁甚至击落。
J20靠什么,靠脑补的机动性
看到你的回复我真的笑了(不是引战,是真的笑了),吐槽略犀利,我喜欢(不论对错)。
球电在伊拉克就不用担心被威胁。
J20靠什么,靠脑补的机动性
人家是高级黑,你太单纯了
J20靠什么,靠脑补的机动性
肥电粉给肥电脑补的机动性才更让人叹为观止。
guoxing1987 发表于 2014-10-20 23:06
肥电粉给肥电脑补的机动性才更让人叹为观止。
F35的50度AOA是自己飞出来的,不是脑补出来的, 请说出鳖国现在有哪款战机可以实现
F35的50度AOA是自己飞出来的,不是脑补出来的, 请说出鳖国现在有哪款战机可以实现
白云桑果然还是这套把戏,竖一个靶子然后自嗨。
这事你得致电总装,tg的现役飞机从不公开详细性能。
话说,你黑tg的方法是不是也该与时俱进,有所长进了?
guoxing1987 发表于 2014-10-20 23:28
白云桑果然还是这套把戏,竖一个靶子然后自嗨。
这事你得致电总装,tg的现役飞机从不公开详细性能。
话 ...
我们知道的是,F35在试飞中实现的可控大迎角性能超越了现役三代机, F35咋不开加力情况下可以飞1.2马赫的准超音速巡航,这也超越了现役三代机,我们还知道它的发动机发展自标准四代发动机F119,是现役最先进的引擎之一。这些都是确凿的事情

而中国战机的性能没有公布,我们只知道它的发动机推力不足,知道它搞了很大的内弹仓,知道它个头不小,空重也不会小。  那么你认为连一点数据都没有的飞机就说它机动性多好,超巡多强,不是脑补又是什么?

对着F35出色的大迎角能力、跨音速加速能力、北航模拟仿真的出色结果视而不见,   对着什么都不知道的J20说机动多么强悍怎样横扫三代机,  你这套把戏可是从来就没与时俱进过
隐身飞机本来就是低可探测性,又不是不可探测来自: iPhone客户端
bhshen 发表于 2014-10-20 21:35
引用:  GDI2000 发表于 2014-10-20 19:41  
  
J20没隐身也可一战,F35未必干得过三代朳...
F35比F16还强些来自: iPhone客户端

白云居士 发表于 2014-10-20 23:47 我们知道的是,F35在试飞中实现的可控大迎角性能超越了现役三代机, F35咋不开加力情况下可以飞1.2马赫的 ...
因为没证据A比B和C强,而目前证据显示B比C强,所以B比A强?

撇开逻辑不说,你怎么只看到肥电飞行性能好的证据,而对不好的证据视而不见呢?飞不过1.8,翼载荷堪比鬼怪,跨音速时间一个比一个长,你又如何解释?落马是王婆卖瓜,你是什么?

猛禽无矢量60度可控,肥电50度可控,都是吹跨世纪牛逼,让粽子飞出其中任何一项看看。TG这边为了无矢量60度可控绞尽脑汁,连最不利于隐身和超巡的复杂三翼面都拿出来了才勉强搞定,最后还不了了之,人家美帝落马只需要在F15气动基础上略施粉黛就能搞定且啥都不影响,我勒个去,敢情气动外形也是民煮国家效率更高吗?!

请诸位肥电拥趸撰文分析肥电气动上的奥秘所在,为我等无知群众科普。
白云居士 发表于 2014-10-20 23:47 我们知道的是,F35在试飞中实现的可控大迎角性能超越了现役三代机, F35咋不开加力情况下可以飞1.2马赫的 ...
因为没证据A比B和C强,而目前证据显示B比C强,所以B比A强?

撇开逻辑不说,你怎么只看到肥电飞行性能好的证据,而对不好的证据视而不见呢?飞不过1.8,翼载荷堪比鬼怪,跨音速时间一个比一个长,你又如何解释?落马是王婆卖瓜,你是什么?

猛禽无矢量60度可控,肥电50度可控,都是吹跨世纪牛逼,让粽子飞出其中任何一项看看。TG这边为了无矢量60度可控绞尽脑汁,连最不利于隐身和超巡的复杂三翼面都拿出来了才勉强搞定,最后还不了了之,人家美帝落马只需要在F15气动基础上略施粉黛就能搞定且啥都不影响,我勒个去,敢情气动外形也是民煮国家效率更高吗?!

请诸位肥电拥趸撰文分析肥电气动上的奥秘所在,为我等无知群众科普。
只能说,美国战斗机所处的星球大气环境跟中国战斗机所处的星球大气环境不一样,而且美国战机飞到哪里,飞机自身周围的大气环境就跟着变化到哪里。

所以,美国即使是用最常规、最保守的气动布局,加上被“崇拜者”们视为神话的发动机,就能轻松地实现超级的机动性。

而中国由于不民主不自由,所以连大气环境都比美国差老远,而且中国飞机飞到哪,飞机周围的大气环境就跟着烂到哪。

所以,中国即使采用最激进、有利气动的布局,再加上那个被“批评者”们视为垃圾的发动机,甚至也无法做到常规的机动要求。

我只能说,果然连神都站在美国这边,上帝一定是个美国人,而不是中国人。
风剪 发表于 2014-10-21 08:34
只能说,美国战斗机所处的星球大气环境跟中国战斗机所处的星球大气环境不一样,而且美国战机飞到哪里,飞机 ...
上帝是西方的,这个毋庸置疑的
因为没证据A比B和C强,而目前证据显示B比C强,所以B比A强?

撇开逻辑不说,你怎么只看到肥电飞行性能好 ...
机动能力不仅和气动相关,还和飞控系统水平相关啊。
机动能力不仅和气动相关,还和飞控系统水平相关啊。
气动是基本,飞控是锦上添花的东西。
fxbuju 发表于 2014-10-20 21:32
道高一尺,魔高一丈。
你觉得呢??
bhshen 发表于 2014-10-20 21:35
J20没隐身也可一战,F35未必干得过三代朳
那是必须的
白云居士 发表于 2014-10-20 21:46
J20靠什么,靠脑补的机动性
期待矢量机~~
张俊 发表于 2014-10-21 00:07
隐身飞机本来就是低可探测性,又不是不可探测
这个一语道破天机啊~不过35确实有点吹
deam 发表于 2014-10-21 09:39
机动能力不仅和气动相关,还和飞控系统水平相关啊。
咳有更先进的隐身技术~
现在自家也有隐身灰机了,再像过去那样吹米波雷达反隐身岂不是连自家宝贝也跟着中枪。。。。
白云居士 发表于 2014-10-20 23:47
我们知道的是,F35在试飞中实现的可控大迎角性能超越了现役三代机, F35咋不开加力情况下可以飞1.2马赫的 ...
美国的三代机,大仰角性能最好的是F18A,但总不能说F18A机动性是三代机最好吧?如果这样,为何当初会败于F16呢?