印度新舰面临无舰炮可用的尴尬境地

来源:百度文库 编辑:超级军网 时间:2024/05/03 03:39:42


印度计划外购127毫米舰炮,用于什瓦利克级护卫舰和德里级驱逐舰

英国宇航公司决定不参与印度舰炮招标,而且印度陆军拟采购M777 155毫米炮的来源——英宇航一工厂去年也大幅裁员,这单估计也有问题

唯一投标者,意大利奥托梅莱拉公司是芬梅卡尼卡集团子公司,后者因AW-101直升机贿赂丑闻正在被意大利与印度调查,印度人正在争执是否将其加入黑名单,但是高层有意大利裔老佛爷,还有鱼雷等关键武器系统仰仗于这家公司,绝交代价不小

Navy's Guns Sink with Tender
http://www.newindianexpress.com/ ... /article2007102.ece

The Navy’s plans to procure weapons for future warships are at risk of running aground. The force urgently needs 127mm guns, but its tender for 13 guns estimated at  Rs 1,500 crore finds itself in rough waters. To start with, there were only two vendors for the guns globally. Now, while one has walked out of the tender, the other is facing uncertainty due to its parent company’s woes.

Sources said this could delay two key shipbuilding projects—the seven follow-on Shivalik-class frigates and six Delhi-class destroyers—that are in various stages of construction in domestic shipyards.

While the UK’s BAE Systems has refused to bid, Italian Oto Melara, whose parent company Finmeccanica is facing corruption probes back home, is keen on participating in the tender.

Finmeccanica is also the parent firm of helicopter manufacturer AgustaWestland, which is facing an Indian probe over allegations of bribes in a Rs 3,727-crore deal for supplying AW-101 VVIP transport choppers to the Indian Air Force.

This has presented the Navy with a fait accompli. Its tender is now on deathbed.

The BAE’s nonparticipation leaves only one vendor in the fray and that is a strict no-no under the present Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP). The DPP stipulates that there has to be a competition (at least two competing firms) before the contract is awarded to the lowest bidder.

The Navy is facing this situation also because the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has not been able to design and develop a 127mm/5-inch gun indigenously.

“It is a pitiable state of affairs. We have not been able to develop an indigenous gun. Now, the search for a foreign gun too is virtually dead. In a single vendor situation, the tender is a nonstarter,” a Naval officer said.

While a representative of Oto Melara in India confirmed their participation in the tender, a BAE representative too confirmed their decision not to participate.

The Defence Ministry had issued the tender (Request for Proposals or RFP in defence parlance) to the two firms on November 12, 2013, and the companies were given time till March 2014 to respond.

Under the programme, India would buy two guns directly from the winner of the tender, while 11 more guns would be manufactured by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) through transfer of technology from the global Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that wins the contract.

But within a fortnight, BAE Systems wrote back saying the company does not intend submitting a proposal. “After conducting a detailed assessment of the RFP, the company has concluded that key aspects present the bidder with a disproportionate level of risk,” BAE Systems said in a response.

By “disproportionate risk” BAE Systems meant that the Defence Ministry was placing the onus of performance of BHEL in executing the contract with quality guns and timely deliveries on the foreign OEM, which would have no control over the functioning of the PSU. Non-performance by the PSU would entail penalties being imposed on the OEM.

“This risk would involve costs and we are sure the Indian government understands this,” a BAE Systems representative said. BAE Systems noted that it has vast experience in producing the Mk45 127mm/5-inch 62-calibre Mod4 gun and in establishing in-country manufacturing programmes. It claimed the gun matched the Indian Navy’s needs. The gun, it said, is in service with the naval fleets of Australia, Denmark, Greece, Japan, Republic of Korea, New Zealand, Spain, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey.

The Oto Melara representative, in response to queries, said the company would reply to the Defence Ministry’s RFP by March 2014.

印度计划外购127毫米舰炮,用于什瓦利克级护卫舰和德里级驱逐舰

英国宇航公司决定不参与印度舰炮招标,而且印度陆军拟采购M777 155毫米炮的来源——英宇航一工厂去年也大幅裁员,这单估计也有问题

唯一投标者,意大利奥托梅莱拉公司是芬梅卡尼卡集团子公司,后者因AW-101直升机贿赂丑闻正在被意大利与印度调查,印度人正在争执是否将其加入黑名单,但是高层有意大利裔老佛爷,还有鱼雷等关键武器系统仰仗于这家公司,绝交代价不小

Navy's Guns Sink with Tender
http://www.newindianexpress.com/ ... /article2007102.ece

The Navy’s plans to procure weapons for future warships are at risk of running aground. The force urgently needs 127mm guns, but its tender for 13 guns estimated at  Rs 1,500 crore finds itself in rough waters. To start with, there were only two vendors for the guns globally. Now, while one has walked out of the tender, the other is facing uncertainty due to its parent company’s woes.

Sources said this could delay two key shipbuilding projects—the seven follow-on Shivalik-class frigates and six Delhi-class destroyers—that are in various stages of construction in domestic shipyards.

While the UK’s BAE Systems has refused to bid, Italian Oto Melara, whose parent company Finmeccanica is facing corruption probes back home, is keen on participating in the tender.

Finmeccanica is also the parent firm of helicopter manufacturer AgustaWestland, which is facing an Indian probe over allegations of bribes in a Rs 3,727-crore deal for supplying AW-101 VVIP transport choppers to the Indian Air Force.

This has presented the Navy with a fait accompli. Its tender is now on deathbed.

The BAE’s nonparticipation leaves only one vendor in the fray and that is a strict no-no under the present Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP). The DPP stipulates that there has to be a competition (at least two competing firms) before the contract is awarded to the lowest bidder.

The Navy is facing this situation also because the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has not been able to design and develop a 127mm/5-inch gun indigenously.

“It is a pitiable state of affairs. We have not been able to develop an indigenous gun. Now, the search for a foreign gun too is virtually dead. In a single vendor situation, the tender is a nonstarter,” a Naval officer said.

While a representative of Oto Melara in India confirmed their participation in the tender, a BAE representative too confirmed their decision not to participate.

The Defence Ministry had issued the tender (Request for Proposals or RFP in defence parlance) to the two firms on November 12, 2013, and the companies were given time till March 2014 to respond.

Under the programme, India would buy two guns directly from the winner of the tender, while 11 more guns would be manufactured by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) through transfer of technology from the global Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that wins the contract.

But within a fortnight, BAE Systems wrote back saying the company does not intend submitting a proposal. “After conducting a detailed assessment of the RFP, the company has concluded that key aspects present the bidder with a disproportionate level of risk,” BAE Systems said in a response.

By “disproportionate risk” BAE Systems meant that the Defence Ministry was placing the onus of performance of BHEL in executing the contract with quality guns and timely deliveries on the foreign OEM, which would have no control over the functioning of the PSU. Non-performance by the PSU would entail penalties being imposed on the OEM.

“This risk would involve costs and we are sure the Indian government understands this,” a BAE Systems representative said. BAE Systems noted that it has vast experience in producing the Mk45 127mm/5-inch 62-calibre Mod4 gun and in establishing in-country manufacturing programmes. It claimed the gun matched the Indian Navy’s needs. The gun, it said, is in service with the naval fleets of Australia, Denmark, Greece, Japan, Republic of Korea, New Zealand, Spain, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey.

The Oto Melara representative, in response to queries, said the company would reply to the Defence Ministry’s RFP by March 2014.
印度因行贿丑闻取消意大利5.6亿欧元直升机订单
2014-01-01

摘要:北京时间1月1日晚间消息,印度政府周三宣布,已取消了与意大利国防巨头芬梅卡尼卡集团(Finmeccanica)的价值5.60亿欧元(6.70亿美元)的直升机采购订单,后者被指控为赢得此项订单而贿赂印度官员。

  新浪财经讯 北京时间1月1日晚间消息,印度政府周三宣布,已取消了与意大利国防巨头芬梅卡尼卡集团(Finmeccanica)的价值5.60亿欧元(6.70亿美元)的直升机采购订单,后者被指控为赢得此项订单而贿赂印度官员。

  今年2月,意大利警方在一次反腐败调查中逮捕了时任芬梅卡尼卡集团董事长兼CEO的乌塞佩-奥锡(Giuseppe Orsi),他被控在担任芬梅卡尼卡的直升机子公司AgustaWestland负责人期间向印度官员行贿,以获得12架AgustaWestland公务直升机订单。

  在此之前,印度政府已接收了其中的三架直升机,但在丑闻曝光之后冻结了剩余9架的订单。印度前空军司令S.P. Tyagi也卷入了此案,目前正在接受当局调查。意大利检方怀疑Tyagi或其家人收受了相当于订单金额10%的6800万美元回扣。(羽箭)

http://ndfinance.oeeee.com/html/201401/01/654128.html
阿三连舰炮都得外购???
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???
为了安全,自产的话。。。。你懂的
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???

不止舰炮,印度连陆军的火炮都一直外购

(155mm炮一买30年,招标无数次,还没着落呢)
话说,阿三海军的子系统缺的也不是只有舰炮了吧,所以看淡一点就好
阿三开万国博览会的劲头还是很足呐
空着,加配重,以后装。
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???
欢迎回到地球,地球上能独立研发现代舰炮的国家一只手都能数过来。
欢迎回到地球,地球上能独立研发现代舰炮的国家一只手都能数过来。
没那么夸张吧,中美俄法英五大流氓,德国的莱茵金属、意大利的阿古斯塔、瑞典的博福斯,随便数下就8个了。
81508153 发表于 2014-1-27 13:56
欢迎回到地球,地球上能独立研发现代舰炮的国家一只手都能数过来。
不会这么夸张吧?!!舰炮都这么难搞定?
薯童公 发表于 2014-1-27 14:05
不会这么夸张吧?!!舰炮都这么难搞定?
鱼雷更难搞定呢,海军用的东西比空军用的还麻烦
阿三造个壳子泡在水里十年,再一样样买东西往里面装,称为自造
我觉得抄安东尼的家一定会有不菲的收入
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???
能独立生产现代各种舰炮的又有几个?
龙息烽 发表于 2014-1-27 14:04
没那么夸张吧,中美俄法英五大流氓,德国的莱茵金属、意大利的阿古斯塔、瑞典的博福斯,随便数下就8个了 ...
鬼子应该也可以吧,9个了

九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???


你说得仿佛舰炮简单;
现在出产大中口径舰炮的国家&公司,绝对少于搞出导弹的。

PS.怪在,印度有本土许可证生产的“奥托·梅拉娜”76mm炮,用在“什瓦利克”级上;
     也许是来料加工、炮管胚料用完不能自给?
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???


你说得仿佛舰炮简单;
现在出产大中口径舰炮的国家&公司,绝对少于搞出导弹的。

PS.怪在,印度有本土许可证生产的“奥托·梅拉娜”76mm炮,用在“什瓦利克”级上;
     也许是来料加工、炮管胚料用完不能自给?
薯童公 发表于 2014-1-27 14:05
不会这么夸张吧?!!舰炮都这么难搞定?
你自己数数不就得了。
starlink 发表于 2014-1-27 14:16
鬼子应该也可以吧,9个了
鬼子没有自研的型号,都是授权生产或直接外购
TlJdMxFc 发表于 2014-1-27 13:49
空着,加配重,以后装。
德里和施瓦砾可现在装的是100炮和76炮,为啥空着?  这是给现役的装备换装。
逆天笑 发表于 2014-1-27 13:47
不止舰炮,印度连陆军的火炮都一直外购

(155mm炮一买30年,招标无数次,还没着落呢)
不是和南非搞出来了155毫米的车载炮了吗,塔塔的8x8高机动底盘。
xiaofusheng721 发表于 2014-1-27 14:08
鱼雷更难搞定呢,海军用的东西比空军用的还麻烦
鱼雷,印度到是有自研的项目,据说进度还可以。
starlink 发表于 2014-1-27 14:16
鬼子应该也可以吧,9个了
鬼子用的是意呆的奥拓127,不过貌似引进了。

jli-2010-1 发表于 2014-1-27 14:32
不是和南非搞出来了155毫米的车载炮了吗,塔塔的8x8高机动底盘。


南非丹尼尔公司还在黑名单上呢,TATA帖牌策略还没得到认可,只是给军方演示下,或说在打通关节,而且所谓的TATA卡车在演示影像中赫然是捷克太脱拉TATRA的底盘,太脱拉现在在印度也有贿赂事件要处理,TATA想当中间商,为这两家公司洗白,暗渡陈昌捞一笔不容易


话说回来,这么多年N次招标之后,几乎所有的火炮企业都在印度黑名单上

现在印度155mm炮招标,也不知道会来几家好了疮疤忘了痛的公司,或能来几家公司
jli-2010-1 发表于 2014-1-27 14:32
不是和南非搞出来了155毫米的车载炮了吗,塔塔的8x8高机动底盘。


南非丹尼尔公司还在黑名单上呢,TATA帖牌策略还没得到认可,只是给军方演示下,或说在打通关节,而且所谓的TATA卡车在演示影像中赫然是捷克太脱拉TATRA的底盘,太脱拉现在在印度也有贿赂事件要处理,TATA想当中间商,为这两家公司洗白,暗渡陈昌捞一笔不容易


话说回来,这么多年N次招标之后,几乎所有的火炮企业都在印度黑名单上

现在印度155mm炮招标,也不知道会来几家好了疮疤忘了痛的公司,或能来几家公司
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???
就连兔子家的舰炮,也是仿于公鸡和毛子。有啥好奇怪的。

想想100多口径的炮,每分钟几十发,还得应付船体的起伏摇摆,没两把刷子搞得出来。

jli-2010-1 发表于 2014-1-27 14:33
鱼雷,印度到是有自研的项目,据说进度还可以。


印度的项目,哪个“据说”都可以,但最后无一例外都是用外国货充场面,本国项目神主牌一般不倒在那挂着而已

鱼雷方面也在和意大利人谈采购,就是贿赂问题现在是个政治问题不好弄
jli-2010-1 发表于 2014-1-27 14:33
鱼雷,印度到是有自研的项目,据说进度还可以。


印度的项目,哪个“据说”都可以,但最后无一例外都是用外国货充场面,本国项目神主牌一般不倒在那挂着而已

鱼雷方面也在和意大利人谈采购,就是贿赂问题现在是个政治问题不好弄

colinlin 发表于 2014-1-27 14:41
就连兔子家的舰炮,也是仿于公鸡和毛子。有啥好奇怪的。

想想100多口径的炮,每分钟几十发,还得应付 ...


这些都不是问题;
问题是地面上好好的炮,上舰打一发,(船体)各种扭曲变形崩零件......
据说土鳖1988.3.14海战,新装的100mm国产舰炮,震得许多设备故障......

唯叹舰体不是大地!
colinlin 发表于 2014-1-27 14:41
就连兔子家的舰炮,也是仿于公鸡和毛子。有啥好奇怪的。

想想100多口径的炮,每分钟几十发,还得应付 ...


这些都不是问题;
问题是地面上好好的炮,上舰打一发,(船体)各种扭曲变形崩零件......
据说土鳖1988.3.14海战,新装的100mm国产舰炮,震得许多设备故障......

唯叹舰体不是大地!
逆天笑 发表于 2014-1-27 14:38
南非丹尼尔公司还在黑名单上呢,TATA帖牌策略还没得到认可,只是给军方演示下,或说在打通关节,而且所 ...
整合到塔塔的底盘上早就已经出来了。  另外,印度已经可以自己生产45倍口径的155毫米。
九天翱翔 发表于 2014-1-27 13:40
阿三连舰炮都得外购???
呵呵,你真逗,当今世界能独立生产出比较先进舰炮的国家不超过5个。这东西很好造,但故障多,性能差,谁会用?
逆天笑 发表于 2014-1-27 14:42
印度的项目,哪个“据说”都可以,但最后无一例外都是用外国货充场面,本国项目神主牌一般不倒在那挂着 ...
也许得到外接的一些支持,但鱼雷真的是在自研。
jli-2010-1 发表于 2014-1-27 14:46
整合到塔塔的底盘上早就已经出来了。  另外,印度已经可以自己生产45倍口径的155毫米。

印度展览会上连乘波体高超音速平台都有。。。

比较现实点的各种拼装,却连印度军队都买不下手,就是看得最光鲜的阿琼也是象征性的装备下

真想要的东西,还是要从国外招标,或直接洽谈采购
逆天笑 发表于 2014-1-27 13:47
不止舰炮,印度连陆军的火炮都一直外购

(155mm炮一买30年,招标无数次,还没着落呢)
何止,连炮弹和子弹都得部分外购
薯童公 发表于 2014-1-27 14:05
不会这么夸张吧?!!舰炮都这么难搞定?
不要小看了这东西,当今世界可以完全独立研发制造先进舰炮的国家也就几个,要求的水准高点的话连5个都超不过。
starlink 发表于 2014-1-27 14:16
鬼子应该也可以吧,9个了
请举个例子,日本独立生产了哪款比较不错的现代化主炮。
starlink 发表于 2014-1-27 14:16
鬼子应该也可以吧,9个了
鬼子哪一门现代舰炮(76mm以上口径)是自产的?
这个, 采购俄罗斯的舰炮也不难吧?  100毫米舰炮他们也装备了吧
81508153 发表于 2014-1-27 13:56
欢迎回到地球,地球上能独立研发现代舰炮的国家一只手都能数过来。
基本上就是除了五大流氓外加几个欧州国家
龙息烽 发表于 2014-1-27 14:04
没那么夸张吧,中美俄法英五大流氓,德国的莱茵金属、意大利的阿古斯塔、瑞典的博福斯,随便数下就8个了 ...
瑞典的博福斯,最大口径多少?
这里讨论的貌似是76mm以上口径的大中口径主炮。
逆天笑 发表于 2014-1-27 13:23
印度因行贿丑闻取消意大利5.6亿欧元直升机订单
2014-01-01
现在正在打国际官司呢。印度已经预付了大约40%的货款,正要求退款。而意大利方面表示钱已用于早期生产(可能还有一部分用于行贿),拒绝退款。不知最终结果如何。
逆天笑 发表于 2014-1-27 14:51
印度展览会上连乘波体高超音速平台都有。。。

比较现实点的各种拼装,却连印度军队都买不下手,就是 ...
阿琼MKI已经装备了124辆,MKII的124辆订单也下了。 另外,和南非合作155毫米车载炮的是Bharat Forge公司,只是使用塔塔的8x8高机动底盘而已。 印度的基础研究已经越来越好了,今后的发展会越走越顺,这个过程谁都要走。