[ZT]军报：因不熟悉轰炸机作战方式 “红军”呼叫空中支 ...

该呼叫强五？

请求火箭军部队支援。

联合作战水平勘忧啊，大陆军的思想还是根深蒂固啊！

陆军自己掌握远程炮兵，就不用求空军帮忙反击对方炮兵了，关键时刻还是自己手里的家伙用得趁手，求其他单位帮忙实在不靠谱

转怎么不转全

原来，红方并没有明确空军轰炸机进入、撤出作战区域的时间和方位，导致陆空协同无法执行。对此，红方指挥员反思：“指挥员必须熟练掌握新型作战力量的联合制胜机理，不然，‘身联’而‘脑不联’也是徒劳。”

八股瞎扯淡，红方并没有明确空军轰炸机进入、撤出作战区域的时间和方位，导致陆空协同无法执行。这个是地面部队能决定的？只能是空军给出进入、撤出作战区域的时间和方位，地面配合，反过来完全不可行

美军呼叫空中支援，地面的JTAC确实是要给进入的方向的，但是无要求的时候可以缺省。

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xj2000 发表于 2016-5-10 16:59
八股瞎扯淡，红方并没有明确空军轰炸机进入、撤出作战区域的时间和方位，导致陆空协同无法执行。这个是地面 ...

美军呼叫空中支援，地面的JTAC确实是要给进入的方向的，但是无要求的时候可以缺省。

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联合作战，中国还是小学生， 慢慢总结吧

红方领导估计是陆军出身，第一次指挥空军联合作战。

这不就是演习的目的之一么？

tifafan 发表于 2016-5-10 17:11
美军呼叫空中支援，地面的JTAC确实是要给进入的方向的，但是无要求的时候可以缺省。
没错是这样，但是进入的方向实际上不是给而是商量性质的，而且空军如果有困难还要调整。另外这是优势制空权时的情况。没有制空权时，进入的方向和时机很多时候是没有给地面选择的权力，你只有配合。

xj2000 发表于 2016-5-10 18:11
没错是这样，但是进入的方向实际上不是给而是商量性质的，而且空军如果有困难还要调整。另外这是优势制空 ...
进入方向很多时候是考虑地面友军部队的位置的，JTAC会给一个大致的范围，比如从目标点的220~320度方向进入，朝向某导航点退出。JTAC是空军的人，安插在地面部队里的。

tifafan 发表于 2016-5-10 18:14
进入方向很多时候是考虑地面友军部队的位置的，JTAC会给一个大致的范围，比如从目标点的220~320度方向进 ...
JTAC给的只是建议，实际操作可以听也可以不听，事实上天上飞的才有最终决定权，美军对地攻击途中变卦炸弹乱扔的事多了。事实上地上的就是孙子，要求着天上的爷爷。

所以我兔空军要建立地面引导小组了，同时陆军应该增加航空参谋统一策划陆航和空军航空兵作战

而且从八股来看，要求支援的是团级指挥部，这个层级的和一线地面引导小组是不同的，他本身就不在一线，所以当然不需要提出具体的打击路线，那是一线地面引导小组的活

先军经济 发表于 2016-5-10 16:39
陆军自己掌握远程炮兵，就不用求空军帮忙反击对方炮兵了，关键时刻还是自己手里的家伙用得趁手，求其他单位 ...
所以就有了各种大炸逼。。。

天蓝1983 发表于 2016-5-10 17:22
联合作战，中国还是小学生， 慢慢总结吧
只有在战场上用鲜血才能总结出来，从古至今这种经验那个不是从战场上总结的

都二十一世纪一十年代了，地空协同居然还这么生疏？大陆军主义真是根深蒂固啊！

xj2000 发表于 2016-5-10 18:21
JTAC给的只是建议，实际操作可以听也可以不听，事实上天上飞的才有最终决定权，美军对地攻击途中变卦炸弹 ...
执行有困难，飞行员可以和JTAC商讨，但是错的太离谱，地面的JTAC是有全力喊停的。“abort！abort！abort！”

扯谈的，地面部队只管明确打击时间、要求和位置，进入方位、临空时间、打击方法是空军和火力协调机构的事情，空军自己也要派人参加火力协调机构，并在战前就协同动作制定计划。
综合来说，解放军最需要提高素质的就是军报妓者。

空中支援联络员

OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM (AFPN) -- It takes more than a pilot in a plane to put bombs on target.

Air Force pilots, acting as air liaison officers and assigned to Army units, paint a roadmap in the sky for pilots overhead so they can drop bombs on the enemy without harming nearby friendly forces.

Capt. Danny Stout, a liaison officer and B-52 Stratofortress pilot is deployed to Afghanistan from Fort Drum, Texas, with the 10th Mountain Division. They are supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Stout is currently on a classified mission with the 2-505 Parachute Infantry Regiment to talk aircraft onto enemy targets.

“We’ve been out here for over a week, and my job is to focus solely on our aircraft in the (sky),” Stout said. “I talk their eyes onto our position first, so they know where the (friendly forces) are, sometimes with a mirror flash, sometimes with smoke.”

After Stout contacts the pilots and talks them onto his position, the aircraft are ready to strike enemy positions if necessary.

“It is most important for them to find us first, so they know where we are, and then we direct them to the enemy by guiding them onto ... obvious locations on the ground like a tower or something,” said Stout. “They don’t always drop bombs, because we’re not always being fired upon, but they’re ready and fly in the area until they’re replaced with another set of fighters. So, as long as they’re in the sky above us, I’m talking to them.”

Serving as a liaison officer has given him a new perspective on the daily life of a ground soldier, he said, a view he could not appreciate from the cockpit.

“I’ve learned to adopt and respect the Army way,” he said. “They look at me as part of their team, because I choose to be a team player, and ‘do as the Romans do’ while I’m assigned with them. We camp out a couple of weeks at a time, and these guys don’t pack anything extra, except socks, and that’s it.

“We stink when we’re done, and they make a career of this,” Stout said. “I’m only an (air liaison officer) for two years. This is definitely my Air Force-appreciation tour.”

Not all pilots want to be a liaison officer, Stout said, but he believes it is a worthwhile experience.

“The worst concept for any pilot is to not be able to fly for two years, but I think this experience has made my time out of the cockpit worth it,” said Stout. “I would never be in charge of 25 enlisted guys like I am now …

“I would also never camp out with the Army, (travel) with them or make these friends, had I not been a liaison officer. Working with the tactical air control party … has given me an all new appreciation for … how our young enlisted guys call in close-air support,” he said.

Stout has controlled many different aircraft since arriving in Afghanistan, including A-10 Thunderbolt IIs, B-52s, F-16 Fighting Falcons, F-15E Strike Eagles and Marine AV-8 Harriers. The planes may change, but the language is universal, he said.

“We have a pretty standard way of communicating, and just because I speak B-52 doesn’t mean I can’t communicate with the other pilots,” Stout said. “We’re all trained the same in communicating, which makes a difference when I’m on the ground. Being a pilot helps me to know what they’re thinking up there and helps me say the right things.”

Stout said his liaison officer experiences since arriving in Afghanistan on April 15th have given him a new appreciation for the term, “sense of urgency.”

“When guys on the ground need close-air support, they need it right then, because they’re probably being fired at,” Stout said. “That’s why the aircraft are designated to go out and be ready in the area, just in case. That way, when (close-air support) is needed, it is only minutes before they are on the target.”

Stout said he has taken part in many major operations since his deployment.

“After Operation Iraqi Freedom, people seemed to forget that there are still operations going on, and people are still getting killed here in Afghanistan,” he said. “We have troops still in the field, and the enemy is still out there. It’s important to remember that it’s still serious over here.”

“This has been the highlight of my Air Force career so far,” Stout said. “It’s been incredible to participate in big operation such as this one and know that what we in the tactical air control party … are doing is making a difference in the war on terrorism.”

空中支援联络员

OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM (AFPN) -- It takes more than a pilot in a plane to put bombs on target.

Air Force pilots, acting as air liaison officers and assigned to Army units, paint a roadmap in the sky for pilots overhead so they can drop bombs on the enemy without harming nearby friendly forces.

Capt. Danny Stout, a liaison officer and B-52 Stratofortress pilot is deployed to Afghanistan from Fort Drum, Texas, with the 10th Mountain Division. They are supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Stout is currently on a classified mission with the 2-505 Parachute Infantry Regiment to talk aircraft onto enemy targets.

“We’ve been out here for over a week, and my job is to focus solely on our aircraft in the (sky),” Stout said. “I talk their eyes onto our position first, so they know where the (friendly forces) are, sometimes with a mirror flash, sometimes with smoke.”

After Stout contacts the pilots and talks them onto his position, the aircraft are ready to strike enemy positions if necessary.

“It is most important for them to find us first, so they know where we are, and then we direct them to the enemy by guiding them onto ... obvious locations on the ground like a tower or something,” said Stout. “They don’t always drop bombs, because we’re not always being fired upon, but they’re ready and fly in the area until they’re replaced with another set of fighters. So, as long as they’re in the sky above us, I’m talking to them.”

Serving as a liaison officer has given him a new perspective on the daily life of a ground soldier, he said, a view he could not appreciate from the cockpit.

“I’ve learned to adopt and respect the Army way,” he said. “They look at me as part of their team, because I choose to be a team player, and ‘do as the Romans do’ while I’m assigned with them. We camp out a couple of weeks at a time, and these guys don’t pack anything extra, except socks, and that’s it.

“We stink when we’re done, and they make a career of this,” Stout said. “I’m only an (air liaison officer) for two years. This is definitely my Air Force-appreciation tour.”

Not all pilots want to be a liaison officer, Stout said, but he believes it is a worthwhile experience.

“The worst concept for any pilot is to not be able to fly for two years, but I think this experience has made my time out of the cockpit worth it,” said Stout. “I would never be in charge of 25 enlisted guys like I am now …

“I would also never camp out with the Army, (travel) with them or make these friends, had I not been a liaison officer. Working with the tactical air control party … has given me an all new appreciation for … how our young enlisted guys call in close-air support,” he said.

Stout has controlled many different aircraft since arriving in Afghanistan, including A-10 Thunderbolt IIs, B-52s, F-16 Fighting Falcons, F-15E Strike Eagles and Marine AV-8 Harriers. The planes may change, but the language is universal, he said.

“We have a pretty standard way of communicating, and just because I speak B-52 doesn’t mean I can’t communicate with the other pilots,” Stout said. “We’re all trained the same in communicating, which makes a difference when I’m on the ground. Being a pilot helps me to know what they’re thinking up there and helps me say the right things.”

Stout said his liaison officer experiences since arriving in Afghanistan on April 15th have given him a new appreciation for the term, “sense of urgency.”

“When guys on the ground need close-air support, they need it right then, because they’re probably being fired at,” Stout said. “That’s why the aircraft are designated to go out and be ready in the area, just in case. That way, when (close-air support) is needed, it is only minutes before they are on the target.”

Stout said he has taken part in many major operations since his deployment.

“After Operation Iraqi Freedom, people seemed to forget that there are still operations going on, and people are still getting killed here in Afghanistan,” he said. “We have troops still in the field, and the enemy is still out there. It’s important to remember that it’s still serious over here.”

“This has been the highlight of my Air Force career so far,” Stout said. “It’s been incredible to participate in big operation such as this one and know that what we in the tactical air control party … are doing is making a difference in the war on terrorism.”

老陆指挥员下来一想：大家这么忙，你还跟我谈感情？还是“约炮”快捷有效，易高潮！

红方领导估计是陆军出身，第一次指挥空军联合作战。

恩，认为苏27可以拉一个班

扯谈的，地面部队只管明确打击时间、要求和位置，进入方位、临空时间、打击方法是空军和火力协调机构的事情 ...
+1，看军报记者微博和一些军八股，不像是了解一线部队业务的，倒像是在写作文。

独守大唐魂 发表于 2016-5-10 18:59
都二十一世纪一十年代了，地空协同居然还这么生疏？大陆军主义真是根深蒂固啊！
别开口就是大陆军主义，倒是想搞大空军主义，搞得了么？

苏联人是怎么呼叫空中支援的？

+1，看军报记者微博和一些军八股，不像是了解一线部队业务的，倒像是在写作文。
对，过多宣传口的人都不是现场出来的，我们很烦那些过来取材的人，就知道摆拍和吹牛逼

用要炮的思路去要战机轰炸，那肯定不行

看清楚是轰炸机，不是攻击机，轰炸机从后方机场赶过来轰炸完就回去了，你不约定时间？万一你刚占领阵地这时候轰炸机才赶到，炸弹就落你头上了知道么？

thomas1987 发表于 2016-5-11 08:41
看清楚是轰炸机，不是攻击机，轰炸机从后方机场赶过来轰炸完就回去了，你不约定时间？万一你刚占领阵地这时 ...
我就是说，这时候就该用攻击机。用轰炸机太不顺手了。

如果有类似E8的家伙就顺手多了，直接要求地面部队指挥轰炸机群太勉为其难，其对应应该指挥战术层面的例如Q5或H7或许好点吧

xj2000 发表于 2016-5-10 18:21
JTAC给的只是建议，实际操作可以听也可以不听，事实上天上飞的才有最终决定权，美军对地攻击途中变卦炸弹 ...
你这都是听谁说的？？？？？？

不知道中国空军有类似美国空军的PJ、CRO、STO、CCT、TACP、SOWT这些专业性极强的空降特种地面作战人员么？？？？？？

gsygsy 发表于 2016-5-11 01:46
别开口就是大陆军主义，倒是想搞大空军主义，搞得了么？
世界第三的空军难道都搞不了大空军主义？？你让英法德日等等列强怎么活？做不好地空协同就该苦练，多摸索。难道说自己做得很好空中支援就能有效了？

29节的纳尔逊 发表于 2016-5-11 01:27
+1，看军报记者微博和一些军八股，不像是了解一线部队业务的，倒像是在写作文。
有些八股先生连枪都打不好，更不明白基本的战役战术，拿了军事部门的材料就开始臆想臆测，胡编乱造，相当之可恨。
有一年某个没头脑的军报妓者写文章歌颂涨岗位津贴，从60涨到150，拟题为“工资上涨150%”。又有一年某个缺心眼的军报妓者写文章歌颂涨工资，拟题为“基层干部由绳栓不住到棒打不走”。可见我们某些军报媒体脱离基层到何种地步。

不仅脱离实际而且这已经是智商问题了吧……

zergzero 发表于 2016-5-16 14:45
有些八股先生连枪都打不好，更不明白基本的战役战术，拿了军事部门的材料就开始臆想臆测，胡编乱造，相当 ...

不仅脱离实际而且这已经是智商问题了吧……

29节的纳尔逊 发表于 2016-5-16 17:36
不仅脱离实际而且这已经是智商问题了吧……
智商高一点的通常不会去写八股

新闻就是那么回事吧，军记的下限是军迷无法理解的。记没记得有一次电视上的新闻报道一次演习，地面人员对着话筒喊“投弹”，画面转到天上，飞机(好像是歼10)，就把航弹扔下去了，准确命中目标，别提多有喜感了。