[军事翻译贴]国外军迷讨论中国系列

我是来自龙腾网的翻译“病中乃知”，同时也是超大的一名普通会员。虽然我的英语水平很一般，但是喜欢逛国外论坛，希望把所见所闻同CDer分享，看看国外是如何看待中国。只要有时间，就会翻译，尽量保证把一些热点军事新闻在第一时间让广大网友看到。由于水平有限，错误之处还望不吝指教，谢谢大家的支持。

（一）



China warns US over spy planes

中国警告美国越境侦查飞机



原帖地址：http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?201594-China-warns-US-over-spy-planes



帖子主题：


Kongjun33


China has warned the United States that it will "seriously harm" the relationship between the two countries if it continues to fly its spy planes close to the Chinese coast.


中国警告美国，如果继续让间谍飞机接近中国海岸，将会“严重伤害”两国关系


By Malcolm Moore, Shanghai

10:45AM BST 27 Jul 2011


The warning comes after it was reported this week that two Chinese Sukhoi-27 fighters had chased a US U-2 reconnaissance jet and had briefly strayed into Taiwanese airspace.

本周，中国两架苏27拦截了一家美国U2侦察机并短暂侵入台湾领空。


Taiwan confirmed it had dispatched two F-16 fighters to intercept the Chinese jets, which quickly backtracked.

台湾证实派遣了两架F16战斗机来拦截迅速返回的中国战机。


"We demand that the United States respects China's sovereignty and security interests and takes concrete measures to boost a healthy and stable development of military relations," said a spokesman for the Chinese Defence ministry to the Global Times, a state-run newspaper.

中国国防部发言人在接受《环球时报》的采访时说：“我们希望美国政府尊重中国的主权和国土安全，采取切实措施促进军事关系健康而稳定的发展。”


The defence ministry called on the US to halt the flights, calling them a "major obstacle" to good relations and saying that they had "severely harmed" mutual trust.

国防部呼吁美国停止的侦查活动，这是良好关系的“巨大阻碍”，“严重侵害”了军事互信。


The US seems unlikely to bow to the demands. Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, insisted in the wake of the latest incident that the US would continue to fly operations in international airspace.

美国似乎不会答应这些要求。在这次事件之后，美国参谋长联席会议主席马伦上将强调，美国将会继续开展在国际空域的侦查活动。


"The Chinese would see us move out of there," he said. "We're not going to do that, from my perspective. These reconnaissance flights are important." China has long objected to the US monitoring of its coastline, especially after a US spy plane and People's Liberation Army jet collided in 2001 near Hainan island, killing a Chinese pilot. In a major diplomatic row, the crew of the US plane was detained for 11 days.

“中国希望我们离开这里，”他说，“就个人而言，我们不会答应中方的要求。这些侦察飞行具有重大的意义。”中国一直抗议美国监视其海岸线，特别是2001年美国侦查飞机和解放军战机在海南岛附近相撞之后。一名中国飞行员牺牲，美国机组成员被扣押在大使馆11天。


Military ties between the US and China have been rocky and continue to be strained by US arms sales to Taiwan. A decision on whether to sell the island 66 new F-16 jets is due by the beginning of October.

中美之间的军事关系十分微妙，在美国对台军售时会变得紧张起来。十月份将会讨论是否对台出售66架新型F16战机。


The US has said it wants greater military transparency from China over its military modernisation, and has warned about China's growing missile and cyber capabilities.

美国要求中国的军事现代化更加透明，并警告中国持续增长的导弹和电子作战能力。



评论：


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IconOfEvi


To paraphrase Little Red Riding Hood, its clear why the PRC doesnt want flights - "All the better to point missiles at Taiwan, my dear" You know what, **** you Chicoms, **** you PRC. Its not your little pond, its Taiwanese and international airspace were in. We don't care that you think Taiwan is yours. Its not. Deal with it

看了《小红帽》， （译者注：发帖人把中国比作装成外婆的大灰狼，其实俺们真的是兔子= =）你就知道解放军为什么不希望美军的侦查——“自己把导弹全都对准了台湾”。尼玛太假了，去你的共匪，去你的解放军！这里不是你家的水池，这里是台湾和国际的空域。你认为台湾是你们的，我们才不介意。不服气的话，就来战个痛快。

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InetWarrior


Be nice, or they stop borrowing you money...

（回复IconOfEvi）友好一点，否则他们不会借钱给你了……

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Nizark


Riiiiight. So if China started flying recon missions along the US coast or even hawaii, we should 'DEAL WITH IT?'
It is interesting that we have a high flying U2, being chased by Chinese planes and Taiwanese planes chase after the chinese planes. Fishy all over

（回复IconOfEvi）对极了。如果中国派遣飞机侦察美国海岸或者夏威夷，我们应该如何应对?有趣的是我们的高空U2飞机被中国飞机拦截，而台湾飞机又在后边追逐中国飞机。这是在钓鱼吗？

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Elbc


As long as they're in international airspace, what are you going to do? Take pot shots at them with Patriots? During the Cold War, the Soviets had poorly disguised intelligence ships outside our naval bases and trailing Navy ships sucking up the trons. It's part of the game.

（回复Nizark）只要他们是在国际空域，你打算怎么做？用爱国者导弹把它们给打下来？在冷战期间，苏联在我们海军基地周围用伪装的情报船只尾随我们的军舰。这只是游戏的一部分。

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dc_b4.mc


and I thought all those diplomatic spar is also part of the game?

（回复Elbc）外交口水战也是游戏的一部分吗？

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dc_b4.mc


lol

Solve debt problem first before playing tough

哈哈，等我们先解决掉债务问题，再和他们战个痛。

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I'm Ringo


What are they going to do about it, send an inept pilot to crash into it, unlawfully detain the crew, and steal US equipment? Oh, wait.....

接下来他们打算怎么做，派一个笨蛋飞行员撞上去吗，然后非法居留机组人员并且偷窃美国的装备？拭目以待……

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Confuse


either than or just drop the whole not interference policy and play the US game

（回复I'm Ringo）他们或许会这样做，或者停止韬光养晦，然后和美国战个痛快。

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Kongjun33


I agree Icon.

And my guess is one way or another, things would turn bad...

我同意沙发。无论如何，我猜事情会变得更糟……

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ZALMAN1241


I hope that Obama will not listen to this warning,but he is a weak leader(and because of that he doesn't sell wepaons to Taiwan)so who knows?....

我希望奥巴马不要理会这个警告，但他是个软蛋（因为他不想卖武器给台湾），所以谁知道……

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subotai


I would not be surprised at all if those planes briefly, inadvertently (not) crossed into Chinese air space. Its a fairly well known tactic to fly sigint planes into adversaries' air space, hope to get targeted, record electronic transmissions, record targeting radar info, test reaction time and detection range, among other things.

如果那些飞机故意短暂地经过中国领空，我一点也不奇怪。众所周知，飞机进入敌方领空是为了获取目标，此外还要记录电子信号传输、目标雷达信息，测试反应时间和雷达测距。

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Confuse


don't say that, any logic is not tolerated. Of course they are not going to report if they strayed into the PRC side of the middle line.

（回复subotai）不要这么说，这种逻辑是错误的。当然，如果解放军方面越过了中线他们是不会报道的。

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JJHH


It isn't nice to spy on the one who lends you money...

（回复subotai）人家借钱给你，你却侦查人家，这样不好吧……

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Atlantic Friend


If my banker behaved like China I'd try to keep an eye on him as well...

（回复JJHH）如果我的债主像中国那样做，我也会密切注视他的……

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JJHH


Well, usually it's the banker who keeps a close eye on its debtor..

（回复Atlantic Friend）一般说来都是债主监控债务人来着……

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Confuse


with some US actions its a question why china should lend any money at all, it looks like the US is either aiming for a default, QE100 zimbabwe style or just create a war to seize the money. In return if the lender behaved like the US i'm sure china would counter it too, in equal response it should almost be like the USSR in response, but that's what the US wants

（回复Atlantic Friend）美国的行动解释了为什么中国要一直借钱给他，美国为了拖欠债务，通过把美元量化宽松成津巴布韦币或者发动战争来攫取金钱。反过来，如果放贷人像美国这样干的话，我敢打赌中国一定也会反对这样做的，并会像苏联那样进行报复，但这不是美国想要的。

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Arthicrex


Exactly. China does the same thing by sending their aircrafts/subs to poke around Japanese air space/territorial water. I'm pretty sure they do it to Korea, too. Who the **** are they to complain about that kind of activity?

（回复subotai）事实上，中国也在做着同样的事，他们派遣飞机和潜艇在日本领空和领海瞎溜达。我敢肯定韩国也是。这些操蛋的国家难道也在抗议这种行为吗？

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subotai


This particular game has been played by a lot of countries for a long time. Go read about what was happening by both sides when KAL 007 was shot down.

（回复Arthicrex）这种游戏这些国家已经玩了很多年了。去看看KAL007被击落的时候，双方是怎么报道的吧。（译者注：1983年8月31日凌晨前苏联库页岛防空雷达屏幕上，一架身分不明的大型飞机正闯进远东洲际飞弹发射基地的防空识别区上空，两架苏联防空SU－15战斗机奉命紧急升空拦截。5分钟后苏军飞行员向基地请求行动指示，基地司令官作出「击毁入侵飞机」的命令。KAL007预定航线当日世界各通讯社都发出消息，指出编号KAL007号班机的一架波音747客机在哈林岛（Sakhalin）/库页岛上空被苏军飞机击落，客机上269人全部罹难。这一消息震惊了全球，成为当年国际十大新闻之一。）

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Confuse


it's part of the game. the only thing missing is patrolling the CONUS coast line, but going that far would just be starting another cold war.

（回复Arthicrex）这是游戏的一部分。唯一缺少的是在美国本土海岸线的巡逻，但如果真的有这么远，第二场冷战或许就会到来。

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Atlantic Friend


This doctor points weapons at his neighbors, keeps mumbling about repossessing various homes and properties in the neighborhood, and uses house calls to make copies of your work and possessions to sell them for his own profit. So yes, he lends you money, but well, hum....

China should be pleased. Having its borders patrolled by US spy planes has "Official Great Power Status" written all over it. They can be sure spy planes aren't running circles around the Federation of Micronesia, or the Kingdom of Andorra.  

这位医生在他的邻居周围放置武器，整天都在说一些药收回邻居房屋和财产的胡话，然后用催缴通知来没收你的工作和财产，变卖以后变成他们的利润。所以他们才会借钱给你，但实际上，哼哼……

中国应该感到高兴才对。美国间谍飞机在你们边界巡逻，不正凸显了你们“真正的大国地位”吗。你看，间谍飞机怎么不去密克罗尼西亚联邦和安道尔王国呢。（两个都是袖珍国）

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Confuse


the biggest problem is the stand point that the US that pretty much anything outside of the 12 mile limit is to be countered, yes it is EEZ and/or international waters but the US attitude is that it means everyone else can have access and any chinese moves are suspect and to be countered. In any case the whole issue of the taiwan strait and the status of taiwan is defacto international space and country, but the fact that it is in dispute should not be taking as an invitation to treat it as dejure, it lead to unneeded tensions

（回复Atlantic Friend）最大的问题是，美国的立场是否认12海里的限制。（译者注：《国际海洋法公约》规定12海里为领海，200海里为经济专属区，而美国一直拒绝承认，一直把200海里作为领海范围）这是经济专属区和公海，但美国却认为所有人都可以使用，中国的任何行为都要被怀疑与针对。不管怎么说，整个台湾海峡和台湾都属于国际社会，但事实上，在争论中不应该把这个作为法理依据，从而导致了不必要的紧张关系。

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Retaxis2


They took our jobs!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see why its wrong for America to sends spy planes over Southern China deep into Mainland to Collect data. America owes the world. China must not complain since America sends Spy planes into every other country of the world. If they do god damn it America will make them lend us more money!!! GRRRHHHHHH!!!!

他们抢走了我们的工作！！！我不知道美国派侦查飞机从中国南方深入大陆收集资料有什么错。美国主宰整个世界。美国派遣侦查飞机去世界其他国家，中国要不要也来谴责一下？如果他们真的不识时务，美国应该让他们借给我们更多的钱！！！哈哈哈哈哈!!!

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Lords


CHINA WARNS..you can read these words every week or so.. china warns vietnam, taiwan, dalai lama even fishermen..

“中国警告”——你每周都可以看到这几个字。中国警告越南、台湾、大癞蛤蟆甚至是渔民……

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Kongjun33


China warns, but at the same time, also suck the overall western economy and even Africa.

（回复Lords）中国的警告同时也在恶心整个西方的经济，甚至是非洲。

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Laworkerbee


They are big brother and can do as they please as long as the damned Americans don't show up and ruin everything.

（回复Kongjun33）他们是大哥，自己做着类似的事情，还不让该死的美国人出来搅局。

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Confuse


shoe on the other foot ... all sides poke and prod each other with incursions and posturing, they are all going to say others move against them and of course not note that they would do the same.

（回复Laworkerbee）现在情况不同了……各方都在互爆菊花，侵犯与故作姿态，谁也没有闲着。他们会说其它人都在反对自己，当然他们忽视了自己也在做着同样的事。

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Retaxis2


US complains then China complains then US complains some more. People who only read these forums and think that China is the only one complaining needs a quick update of the "real world"

美国谴责然后中国谴责然后美国再谴责……只上这种论坛的人会认为中国只会抗议，“现实世界”可不是这个样子的。

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Dlat83


Hey whats spying amongst friends. We all keep eyes and ears on each other. China is taking full advantage of Obama's weak-naive leadership and the weak economy we have. Oh lets not forget the mortgage they hold. But Obama should get the n*ts to tell China to f*ck off and quit flexing there lips.

嘿我说，基友之间有什么好侦查的。我们彼此密切监视对方。中国完全推倒了奥巴马，这个软蛋给我们带来了幼稚的领导层和低迷的经济。不要忘记他们抵押的东西。奥巴马只需要动一动嘴皮子，对中国说句滚蛋就行了。

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IconOfEvi


To those saying they got lend us money...that is true Its also true that we own the key to their entire prosperity, that if we enact tariffs, they go through the roof. They poke around Japan and Korea because they think they have a right to those lands, the Middle Kingdom, Celestial Empire, and all that.

没错，他们借钱给我们，但我们也是他们的繁荣的关键，如果我们增加关税，他们就会暴跳如雷（go through the roof的另一层意思是物价飞涨）。他们在日本和韩国（的国土上）溜达，他们认为有权在这些土地活动，因为他们是中央王朝、天朝上国……诸如此类。

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Confuse


damn your in a dream world, where does it show china thinks they have rights to korea or japan, if you think it was all celestrial empire then china is doing a crappy job with all the non interference, no first nuke, no overseas bases and communist socialist unity BS

the enacting of tariffs are going to kill your own companies profits, they are not going to return to the US, it is just going to leave china to some other country IF they can find the mix of labor, logistics and infrastructure all in one place, all of the supply chain is tied up there and that is not something you can change over night it that's years, it would be a scenario where the US and china will be collapse and take the rest of the world with it.

（回复IconOfEvi）别说胡话了，中国什么时候说过韩国和日本也是他们的？如果你认为中国是天朝上国，那他们现在做的太差劲了，不干涉原则、不首先使用核武器、不在海外设军事基地和共产主义海外分部。

如果增加关税，我们的公司就没有了利润，他们便不会回迁美国，只想留在中国或其它国家。如果他们能在同一个地方找到工人、物流和基础设施，供需链全都在那里，这不是你一夜就能改变的，往往需要数年时间，这样一来，美国和中国就会垮掉，然后波及世界其他国家。

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lima25218


nothing that a few 100 MIRV's wouldnt solve but save the panda's 1st, they're cute, the rest of china can go get F#%@%D!!!!

只有给他们扔100颗核弹才能解决问题，但一定要保护大熊猫，它们真的太可爱了，至于中国其余的东西，统统去屎吧！！

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Quad-Ace


The Chinese don't have that capacity to spy US coast.

中国人没有侦查美国海岸的能力。

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Corrupt


'Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall'

（回复Quad-Ace）“骄傲导致灭亡；傲慢必然衰败。” （《圣经》里的一句话）

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Confuse


they could send ships, seems more a policy issue rather than a capacity one, aircraft on the other hand is a different situation, that requires overseas bases

（回复Quad-Ace）他们可以派遣船只，这是政策而不是能力的问题，另一方面，飞机也有不同的起飞地点，这需要海外军事基地。

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Shinanaganz


Dont the Chinese hack and steal instead?

难道中国人不去非法侵入和偷窃了？

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Confuse


as part of covert ops of course they do, but that's the game, the US does as well, actually everyone spies on each other to an extent

（回复Shinanaganz）作为谍报的一部分，他们当然会了，但这种游戏美国也在做，大家都在一定程度上彼此监视着自己？

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Retaxis2


Why don't Chinese people share their point of view on this forum? Are they all banned or something because they have a different view? Having the same trolls, troll every China related post is not exactly a discussion more like a bash thread.

为什么中国人不在论坛上发表他们的看法？ （这个论坛应该有中国人出没）是因为观点不同而被全部或部分禁止发言吗？每一个与中国有关的帖子都被无情地围观，这不是真正的讨论，而是各种吐槽。

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Quad-Ace


I am a "Chinese" from Hong Kong. I do think spying is very common thing between countries not a big deal. The warning is just a "procedural" warning.

（回复Retaxis2）我是一名来自香港的“中国人”。我认为国家之间从事间谍活动十分平常，这没什么大不了的。警告只是“程序上”的警告。

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Sootan


Warning though diplomatic means is better than warning by a hail of missiles.

外交上的警告总比用导弹来招呼的警告要好吧。

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Pulsar


what missile carried by China's Su-27 has the capability to hit or shoot down a U2?

中国苏27战机携带的什么导弹有能力击中或击落一架U2飞机？

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EBK


What Chinese Su-27 "pilot" has the capability to fire a missile?

（回复Pulsar）问题是中国苏27的飞行员敢不敢发射导弹。

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Wheke C9


PL-12 should be able to do it I'd imagine.

（回复EBK）霹雳12空空型导弹或许可以，我想。

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Confuse


what ???? i think he is asking what missile can be launched from the su-27 that can destroy the U2 ... R-77, SD-10, etc. either that or just a modern SAM, the U2 isn't that hard to shoot down in modern times.

什么？我认为他是在问苏27上的什么导弹可以摧毁U2、R-77、SD-10等。不管是飞机上的还是地对空导弹，U2都很难被击中。

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Sootan


Great attitude there.

（回复EBK）说得好。



我是来自龙腾网的翻译“病中乃知”，同时也是超大的一名普通会员。虽然我的英语水平很一般，但是喜欢逛国外论坛，希望把所见所闻同CDer分享，看看国外是如何看待中国。只要有时间，就会翻译，尽量保证把一些热点军事新闻在第一时间让广大网友看到。由于水平有限，错误之处还望不吝指教，谢谢大家的支持。

（一）



China warns US over spy planes

中国警告美国越境侦查飞机



原帖地址：http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?201594-China-warns-US-over-spy-planes



帖子主题：


Kongjun33


China has warned the United States that it will "seriously harm" the relationship between the two countries if it continues to fly its spy planes close to the Chinese coast.


中国警告美国，如果继续让间谍飞机接近中国海岸，将会“严重伤害”两国关系


By Malcolm Moore, Shanghai

10:45AM BST 27 Jul 2011


The warning comes after it was reported this week that two Chinese Sukhoi-27 fighters had chased a US U-2 reconnaissance jet and had briefly strayed into Taiwanese airspace.

本周，中国两架苏27拦截了一家美国U2侦察机并短暂侵入台湾领空。


Taiwan confirmed it had dispatched two F-16 fighters to intercept the Chinese jets, which quickly backtracked.

台湾证实派遣了两架F16战斗机来拦截迅速返回的中国战机。


"We demand that the United States respects China's sovereignty and security interests and takes concrete measures to boost a healthy and stable development of military relations," said a spokesman for the Chinese Defence ministry to the Global Times, a state-run newspaper.

中国国防部发言人在接受《环球时报》的采访时说：“我们希望美国政府尊重中国的主权和国土安全，采取切实措施促进军事关系健康而稳定的发展。”


The defence ministry called on the US to halt the flights, calling them a "major obstacle" to good relations and saying that they had "severely harmed" mutual trust.

国防部呼吁美国停止的侦查活动，这是良好关系的“巨大阻碍”，“严重侵害”了军事互信。


The US seems unlikely to bow to the demands. Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, insisted in the wake of the latest incident that the US would continue to fly operations in international airspace.

美国似乎不会答应这些要求。在这次事件之后，美国参谋长联席会议主席马伦上将强调，美国将会继续开展在国际空域的侦查活动。


"The Chinese would see us move out of there," he said. "We're not going to do that, from my perspective. These reconnaissance flights are important." China has long objected to the US monitoring of its coastline, especially after a US spy plane and People's Liberation Army jet collided in 2001 near Hainan island, killing a Chinese pilot. In a major diplomatic row, the crew of the US plane was detained for 11 days.

“中国希望我们离开这里，”他说，“就个人而言，我们不会答应中方的要求。这些侦察飞行具有重大的意义。”中国一直抗议美国监视其海岸线，特别是2001年美国侦查飞机和解放军战机在海南岛附近相撞之后。一名中国飞行员牺牲，美国机组成员被扣押在大使馆11天。


Military ties between the US and China have been rocky and continue to be strained by US arms sales to Taiwan. A decision on whether to sell the island 66 new F-16 jets is due by the beginning of October.

中美之间的军事关系十分微妙，在美国对台军售时会变得紧张起来。十月份将会讨论是否对台出售66架新型F16战机。


The US has said it wants greater military transparency from China over its military modernisation, and has warned about China's growing missile and cyber capabilities.

美国要求中国的军事现代化更加透明，并警告中国持续增长的导弹和电子作战能力。



评论：


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IconOfEvi


To paraphrase Little Red Riding Hood, its clear why the PRC doesnt want flights - "All the better to point missiles at Taiwan, my dear" You know what, **** you Chicoms, **** you PRC. Its not your little pond, its Taiwanese and international airspace were in. We don't care that you think Taiwan is yours. Its not. Deal with it

看了《小红帽》， （译者注：发帖人把中国比作装成外婆的大灰狼，其实俺们真的是兔子= =）你就知道解放军为什么不希望美军的侦查——“自己把导弹全都对准了台湾”。尼玛太假了，去你的共匪，去你的解放军！这里不是你家的水池，这里是台湾和国际的空域。你认为台湾是你们的，我们才不介意。不服气的话，就来战个痛快。

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InetWarrior


Be nice, or they stop borrowing you money...

（回复IconOfEvi）友好一点，否则他们不会借钱给你了……

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Nizark


Riiiiight. So if China started flying recon missions along the US coast or even hawaii, we should 'DEAL WITH IT?'
It is interesting that we have a high flying U2, being chased by Chinese planes and Taiwanese planes chase after the chinese planes. Fishy all over

（回复IconOfEvi）对极了。如果中国派遣飞机侦察美国海岸或者夏威夷，我们应该如何应对?有趣的是我们的高空U2飞机被中国飞机拦截，而台湾飞机又在后边追逐中国飞机。这是在钓鱼吗？

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Elbc


As long as they're in international airspace, what are you going to do? Take pot shots at them with Patriots? During the Cold War, the Soviets had poorly disguised intelligence ships outside our naval bases and trailing Navy ships sucking up the trons. It's part of the game.

（回复Nizark）只要他们是在国际空域，你打算怎么做？用爱国者导弹把它们给打下来？在冷战期间，苏联在我们海军基地周围用伪装的情报船只尾随我们的军舰。这只是游戏的一部分。

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dc_b4.mc


and I thought all those diplomatic spar is also part of the game?

（回复Elbc）外交口水战也是游戏的一部分吗？

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dc_b4.mc


lol

Solve debt problem first before playing tough

哈哈，等我们先解决掉债务问题，再和他们战个痛。

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I'm Ringo


What are they going to do about it, send an inept pilot to crash into it, unlawfully detain the crew, and steal US equipment? Oh, wait.....

接下来他们打算怎么做，派一个笨蛋飞行员撞上去吗，然后非法居留机组人员并且偷窃美国的装备？拭目以待……

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Confuse


either than or just drop the whole not interference policy and play the US game

（回复I'm Ringo）他们或许会这样做，或者停止韬光养晦，然后和美国战个痛快。

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Kongjun33


I agree Icon.

And my guess is one way or another, things would turn bad...

我同意沙发。无论如何，我猜事情会变得更糟……

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ZALMAN1241


I hope that Obama will not listen to this warning,but he is a weak leader(and because of that he doesn't sell wepaons to Taiwan)so who knows?....

我希望奥巴马不要理会这个警告，但他是个软蛋（因为他不想卖武器给台湾），所以谁知道……

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subotai


I would not be surprised at all if those planes briefly, inadvertently (not) crossed into Chinese air space. Its a fairly well known tactic to fly sigint planes into adversaries' air space, hope to get targeted, record electronic transmissions, record targeting radar info, test reaction time and detection range, among other things.

如果那些飞机故意短暂地经过中国领空，我一点也不奇怪。众所周知，飞机进入敌方领空是为了获取目标，此外还要记录电子信号传输、目标雷达信息，测试反应时间和雷达测距。

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Confuse


don't say that, any logic is not tolerated. Of course they are not going to report if they strayed into the PRC side of the middle line.

（回复subotai）不要这么说，这种逻辑是错误的。当然，如果解放军方面越过了中线他们是不会报道的。

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JJHH


It isn't nice to spy on the one who lends you money...

（回复subotai）人家借钱给你，你却侦查人家，这样不好吧……

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Atlantic Friend


If my banker behaved like China I'd try to keep an eye on him as well...

（回复JJHH）如果我的债主像中国那样做，我也会密切注视他的……

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JJHH


Well, usually it's the banker who keeps a close eye on its debtor..

（回复Atlantic Friend）一般说来都是债主监控债务人来着……

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Confuse


with some US actions its a question why china should lend any money at all, it looks like the US is either aiming for a default, QE100 zimbabwe style or just create a war to seize the money. In return if the lender behaved like the US i'm sure china would counter it too, in equal response it should almost be like the USSR in response, but that's what the US wants

（回复Atlantic Friend）美国的行动解释了为什么中国要一直借钱给他，美国为了拖欠债务，通过把美元量化宽松成津巴布韦币或者发动战争来攫取金钱。反过来，如果放贷人像美国这样干的话，我敢打赌中国一定也会反对这样做的，并会像苏联那样进行报复，但这不是美国想要的。

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Arthicrex


Exactly. China does the same thing by sending their aircrafts/subs to poke around Japanese air space/territorial water. I'm pretty sure they do it to Korea, too. Who the **** are they to complain about that kind of activity?

（回复subotai）事实上，中国也在做着同样的事，他们派遣飞机和潜艇在日本领空和领海瞎溜达。我敢肯定韩国也是。这些操蛋的国家难道也在抗议这种行为吗？

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subotai


This particular game has been played by a lot of countries for a long time. Go read about what was happening by both sides when KAL 007 was shot down.

（回复Arthicrex）这种游戏这些国家已经玩了很多年了。去看看KAL007被击落的时候，双方是怎么报道的吧。（译者注：1983年8月31日凌晨前苏联库页岛防空雷达屏幕上，一架身分不明的大型飞机正闯进远东洲际飞弹发射基地的防空识别区上空，两架苏联防空SU－15战斗机奉命紧急升空拦截。5分钟后苏军飞行员向基地请求行动指示，基地司令官作出「击毁入侵飞机」的命令。KAL007预定航线当日世界各通讯社都发出消息，指出编号KAL007号班机的一架波音747客机在哈林岛（Sakhalin）/库页岛上空被苏军飞机击落，客机上269人全部罹难。这一消息震惊了全球，成为当年国际十大新闻之一。）

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Confuse


it's part of the game. the only thing missing is patrolling the CONUS coast line, but going that far would just be starting another cold war.

（回复Arthicrex）这是游戏的一部分。唯一缺少的是在美国本土海岸线的巡逻，但如果真的有这么远，第二场冷战或许就会到来。

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Atlantic Friend


This doctor points weapons at his neighbors, keeps mumbling about repossessing various homes and properties in the neighborhood, and uses house calls to make copies of your work and possessions to sell them for his own profit. So yes, he lends you money, but well, hum....

China should be pleased. Having its borders patrolled by US spy planes has "Official Great Power Status" written all over it. They can be sure spy planes aren't running circles around the Federation of Micronesia, or the Kingdom of Andorra.  

这位医生在他的邻居周围放置武器，整天都在说一些药收回邻居房屋和财产的胡话，然后用催缴通知来没收你的工作和财产，变卖以后变成他们的利润。所以他们才会借钱给你，但实际上，哼哼……

中国应该感到高兴才对。美国间谍飞机在你们边界巡逻，不正凸显了你们“真正的大国地位”吗。你看，间谍飞机怎么不去密克罗尼西亚联邦和安道尔王国呢。（两个都是袖珍国）

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Confuse


the biggest problem is the stand point that the US that pretty much anything outside of the 12 mile limit is to be countered, yes it is EEZ and/or international waters but the US attitude is that it means everyone else can have access and any chinese moves are suspect and to be countered. In any case the whole issue of the taiwan strait and the status of taiwan is defacto international space and country, but the fact that it is in dispute should not be taking as an invitation to treat it as dejure, it lead to unneeded tensions

（回复Atlantic Friend）最大的问题是，美国的立场是否认12海里的限制。（译者注：《国际海洋法公约》规定12海里为领海，200海里为经济专属区，而美国一直拒绝承认，一直把200海里作为领海范围）这是经济专属区和公海，但美国却认为所有人都可以使用，中国的任何行为都要被怀疑与针对。不管怎么说，整个台湾海峡和台湾都属于国际社会，但事实上，在争论中不应该把这个作为法理依据，从而导致了不必要的紧张关系。

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Retaxis2


They took our jobs!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see why its wrong for America to sends spy planes over Southern China deep into Mainland to Collect data. America owes the world. China must not complain since America sends Spy planes into every other country of the world. If they do god damn it America will make them lend us more money!!! GRRRHHHHHH!!!!

他们抢走了我们的工作！！！我不知道美国派侦查飞机从中国南方深入大陆收集资料有什么错。美国主宰整个世界。美国派遣侦查飞机去世界其他国家，中国要不要也来谴责一下？如果他们真的不识时务，美国应该让他们借给我们更多的钱！！！哈哈哈哈哈!!!

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Lords


CHINA WARNS..you can read these words every week or so.. china warns vietnam, taiwan, dalai lama even fishermen..

“中国警告”——你每周都可以看到这几个字。中国警告越南、台湾、大癞蛤蟆甚至是渔民……

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Kongjun33


China warns, but at the same time, also suck the overall western economy and even Africa.

（回复Lords）中国的警告同时也在恶心整个西方的经济，甚至是非洲。

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Laworkerbee


They are big brother and can do as they please as long as the damned Americans don't show up and ruin everything.

（回复Kongjun33）他们是大哥，自己做着类似的事情，还不让该死的美国人出来搅局。

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Confuse


shoe on the other foot ... all sides poke and prod each other with incursions and posturing, they are all going to say others move against them and of course not note that they would do the same.

（回复Laworkerbee）现在情况不同了……各方都在互爆菊花，侵犯与故作姿态，谁也没有闲着。他们会说其它人都在反对自己，当然他们忽视了自己也在做着同样的事。

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Retaxis2


US complains then China complains then US complains some more. People who only read these forums and think that China is the only one complaining needs a quick update of the "real world"

美国谴责然后中国谴责然后美国再谴责……只上这种论坛的人会认为中国只会抗议，“现实世界”可不是这个样子的。

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Dlat83


Hey whats spying amongst friends. We all keep eyes and ears on each other. China is taking full advantage of Obama's weak-naive leadership and the weak economy we have. Oh lets not forget the mortgage they hold. But Obama should get the n*ts to tell China to f*ck off and quit flexing there lips.

嘿我说，基友之间有什么好侦查的。我们彼此密切监视对方。中国完全推倒了奥巴马，这个软蛋给我们带来了幼稚的领导层和低迷的经济。不要忘记他们抵押的东西。奥巴马只需要动一动嘴皮子，对中国说句滚蛋就行了。

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IconOfEvi


To those saying they got lend us money...that is true Its also true that we own the key to their entire prosperity, that if we enact tariffs, they go through the roof. They poke around Japan and Korea because they think they have a right to those lands, the Middle Kingdom, Celestial Empire, and all that.

没错，他们借钱给我们，但我们也是他们的繁荣的关键，如果我们增加关税，他们就会暴跳如雷（go through the roof的另一层意思是物价飞涨）。他们在日本和韩国（的国土上）溜达，他们认为有权在这些土地活动，因为他们是中央王朝、天朝上国……诸如此类。

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Confuse


damn your in a dream world, where does it show china thinks they have rights to korea or japan, if you think it was all celestrial empire then china is doing a crappy job with all the non interference, no first nuke, no overseas bases and communist socialist unity BS

the enacting of tariffs are going to kill your own companies profits, they are not going to return to the US, it is just going to leave china to some other country IF they can find the mix of labor, logistics and infrastructure all in one place, all of the supply chain is tied up there and that is not something you can change over night it that's years, it would be a scenario where the US and china will be collapse and take the rest of the world with it.

（回复IconOfEvi）别说胡话了，中国什么时候说过韩国和日本也是他们的？如果你认为中国是天朝上国，那他们现在做的太差劲了，不干涉原则、不首先使用核武器、不在海外设军事基地和共产主义海外分部。

如果增加关税，我们的公司就没有了利润，他们便不会回迁美国，只想留在中国或其它国家。如果他们能在同一个地方找到工人、物流和基础设施，供需链全都在那里，这不是你一夜就能改变的，往往需要数年时间，这样一来，美国和中国就会垮掉，然后波及世界其他国家。

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lima25218


nothing that a few 100 MIRV's wouldnt solve but save the panda's 1st, they're cute, the rest of china can go get F#%@%D!!!!

只有给他们扔100颗核弹才能解决问题，但一定要保护大熊猫，它们真的太可爱了，至于中国其余的东西，统统去屎吧！！

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Quad-Ace


The Chinese don't have that capacity to spy US coast.

中国人没有侦查美国海岸的能力。

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Corrupt


'Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall'

（回复Quad-Ace）“骄傲导致灭亡；傲慢必然衰败。” （《圣经》里的一句话）

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Confuse


they could send ships, seems more a policy issue rather than a capacity one, aircraft on the other hand is a different situation, that requires overseas bases

（回复Quad-Ace）他们可以派遣船只，这是政策而不是能力的问题，另一方面，飞机也有不同的起飞地点，这需要海外军事基地。

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Shinanaganz


Dont the Chinese hack and steal instead?

难道中国人不去非法侵入和偷窃了？

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Confuse


as part of covert ops of course they do, but that's the game, the US does as well, actually everyone spies on each other to an extent

（回复Shinanaganz）作为谍报的一部分，他们当然会了，但这种游戏美国也在做，大家都在一定程度上彼此监视着自己？

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Retaxis2


Why don't Chinese people share their point of view on this forum? Are they all banned or something because they have a different view? Having the same trolls, troll every China related post is not exactly a discussion more like a bash thread.

为什么中国人不在论坛上发表他们的看法？ （这个论坛应该有中国人出没）是因为观点不同而被全部或部分禁止发言吗？每一个与中国有关的帖子都被无情地围观，这不是真正的讨论，而是各种吐槽。

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Quad-Ace


I am a "Chinese" from Hong Kong. I do think spying is very common thing between countries not a big deal. The warning is just a "procedural" warning.

（回复Retaxis2）我是一名来自香港的“中国人”。我认为国家之间从事间谍活动十分平常，这没什么大不了的。警告只是“程序上”的警告。

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Sootan


Warning though diplomatic means is better than warning by a hail of missiles.

外交上的警告总比用导弹来招呼的警告要好吧。

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Pulsar


what missile carried by China's Su-27 has the capability to hit or shoot down a U2?

中国苏27战机携带的什么导弹有能力击中或击落一架U2飞机？

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EBK


What Chinese Su-27 "pilot" has the capability to fire a missile?

（回复Pulsar）问题是中国苏27的飞行员敢不敢发射导弹。

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Wheke C9


PL-12 should be able to do it I'd imagine.

（回复EBK）霹雳12空空型导弹或许可以，我想。

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Confuse


what ???? i think he is asking what missile can be launched from the su-27 that can destroy the U2 ... R-77, SD-10, etc. either that or just a modern SAM, the U2 isn't that hard to shoot down in modern times.

什么？我认为他是在问苏27上的什么导弹可以摧毁U2、R-77、SD-10等。不管是飞机上的还是地对空导弹，U2都很难被击中。

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Sootan


Great attitude there.

（回复EBK）说得好。